This is my first post here. I didn't know about this site until about 6 months ago and have spent many hours reading multiple threads through tears, empahty, and anger. I apologize in advance for my long rambling and if I mess up all of the cool acronyms and abbreviations, heh. I also apologize if I offend anyone as I will no doubt use colorful words and terms (there is a racial factor in my situation). I am only trying to express my personal pain and circumstances and do not pretend that my situation is completely relevant or comprable to everyone else's. So, here's my obligatory long-ramblin' backstory:

My wife and I met in the summer of 2003. I was 'talking' to a friend of hers (didn't know it at the time though) and one day she came over to the friend's house on a day I happened to be there. We met, all hung out, and eventually started talking on the phone and on AIM. This 'friend' of hers was still hung up on her ex-bf and so my wife and I developed a connection talking about my situation with her and becoming friends. Eventually, she admitted to me that she had a crush on me for nearly 2 years! We attended the same highschool and she had noticed me (I was pretty popular and 'known', if for no other reason than being funny and different by everyone else - not bragging) and had developed a crush over time. She claimed that she had almost tried talking to me a few times and had even followed me home once or twice (it was less creepy when she was innocent and adorable in my eyes) but had never done anything because she was in an abusive, domineering relationship with her boyfriend - who now was the father of her 7 month old daughter and her fiance'. Looking back there were plenty of red flags I was either blind to or ignored completely, but that's another topic for another day.

She claimed then that she was only marrying him for the daughter's sake and that she didn't love him, and didn't want to be with him. He was physically and emotionally abusive and continually cheating on her without fear of retribution or consequence. He had her pinned and he knew it and took full advantage. As we talked more and more about our lives and our desires and this and that.. we inevtiably grew closer and closer. Eventually we started doing more than talking and became friends with benefits. This was great for the time as I was fresh out of high school and she was busy as a working mom. I had plans to move here or there and do this or that and didn't want to commit to a full relationship, and she claimed to be understanding and just wanted as much of me as she could get. She put me on a pedastal above all others and made me feel like the only reason we had such a great relationship with so many good things in it was because of how special I was and how much she truly liked me and wanted me. She made me feel things that I never thought I would, because..

She was the first real girlfriend I had ever had. I had a few here and there for days\weeks at a time, but nothing substantial. I had a made out a few times, exchanged touches, but nothing substantial there either. I had been in love (as I knew it then) with two girls in my life, and both had been 'too good of friends' to want to make anything more out of the relationship with me. I had been turned down so many times (too fat, too ugly, no six-pack, interested in someone else, etc) by practically everyone else I was interested in. It's not that I was really ugly, but I just wasn't your typical attractive male athlete or academic star (even though I was both to a degree). I was tall, husky, bright\deep blue eyes, and a great, witty personality developed though years of self-defense and unintended maturity. I realize now that my lack of self-confidence in the romance dept caused me to miss out on other opportunities, but the ones I did go for all seem to fail miserably. I had resolved long ago that I would never be with someone I truly wanted to be with (as they would be out of my league or not interested in me or whatever), or that if by some stroke of luck I was able to.. they would eventually cheat on me with someone whom soceity deems to be 'hot'.. the six-pack, bigger dick, the whole package (no pun intended). It wasn't until I met my wife and fell in love with her that I began to think differently. She wanted me, she craved me, she pursued me, she absorbed me, she loved me, and she completely changed my whole outlook on myself and my life.

I gave my virginity to her. I mean, really. I was 18 and she was the first girl I had sex with. Some of my restraint was due to lack of opportunity, sure, but it was also due to morals. I was raised and still am a born-again Christian. Even has young and horny as I was then, it was still a big deal for me to give that to her. She never really pressured me about it and she claimed that she held it in the highest respects and that it meant a lot to her to receive that from me. She claimed that she only had sex with the one boyfriend\fiance and I was her second. I felt incredibly special about that as she was a beautiful girl who had MANY opportunities and reasons to have much more 'experience'. She had been abused physically, emotionally, and sexually. She had been raped. She had extreme daddy issues (including abandonment, forms of abuse, and more). She had been on drugs 3-4 years before I met her. She was an underage alcohol abuser - something else she learned from her father. She was your classic case, and if there had been anyone in the world you would've pegged to be 'that kind of girl'.. it was her. And her whole life she had been proving everyone wrong and refused to be 'that kind of girl'. I was so proud of her and so happy to call her mine.

So our life began. We kept being friends with benefits for a few months before I realized I wanted her more than anything else. We started dating officially and within a few months I had a 'filler' ring on her finger and we were shopping for the real thing. We had extraordinary sex (every position, every type, multiple orgasms everytime, etc) and extremely often (7-10 times a week easily). We had a deep care for each other and an intense bond. We talked about anything and everything and constantly craved each other's affection, touch, company, and interaction. During this time we had a few fights and some more flags I ignored or were blind to popped up. She would let loose strings of profanities and insults in the moment, she would leave for hours at a time to 'cool down and think', she would physically abuse me (shoving, hitting, slapping), she would threaten to leave or wanting me to leave. Everytime she would 'get over it' and tell me it was ok and we would go right back to normal, or so I thought. I realized at some point that I was not only enduring her emotions towards me, but all the stored up ones from past guys in her life (family and romantic) that had wronger her. She literally took out on me all of her pain from every other source in her life.

Also during this time, I made my crucial mistakes in our relationship. Growing up as a teenage boy with internet, I watched a lot of porn and did what was natural to do to relieve myself. She knew this and even engaged in it with me for a time. However, evetually she told me that she did not like that practice and wished I would stop. Unfortunately I made the mistake on more than one occasion to backslide into that practice. She caught me a few times and I admitted a few more on my own. It was a struggle for her that I didn't quite understand.. after all.. I wasn't hitting her, cheating on her (physically with someone else anyway), drinking, smoking, etc. I wasn't doing anything that all those other guys in her life had done. I made this mistake to images of friend of hers as well as one of the two girls I mentioned earlier that I was 'in love with' at some point.. the one that I was hung up on while I was 'talking' to her friend when I met her and still was hung up on when we started dating. I also played a lot of video games (competitively mostly). I was doing this long before I met her and she knew it was a big passion and part of my life. She consistently told me that she accepted and supported it. That changed almost as soon as we got married and moved in together. Once my two passions merged under one roof, one of them became 'Plan B' and too often it was quality time with my wife. Even though I told her how much I loved her every single day and showed her in every way that I knew how, she began to feel like I didn't and that I was neglectful. You see for me, nothing changed.. we cemented our dating relationship by getting married. That is how we discussed it and that is how it was in my eyes. Unknown to me at the time were all her secret expectations for us and for me when we tied the knot.

So.. over time walls go up and distance forms. Small and unnoticeable at first, but looking back - as always - it's more obvious. Things and time with her that once seemed to make her the happiest person in the world and filled her cup to overflowing.. now only seemed to fill it barely a quarter. Efforts to show love went unappreciated and ways that we used to interact seemed to fall short. Through this all we STILL had frequent and amazing sex. We still cuddled and caressed one another. We still sent love notes and adorned each other with words of love and commitment and adoration. Also during this time, we had our first child together. A beautiful, special girl that we both instantly fell in love with. My wife (in line with her history of diagnosed emotional issues and hormonal imbalances) developed slight PTSD in the months following the birth. Later she took a new job and met a new group of friends. By this time it's the summer of 2006.

My wife has always had 'bad' friends in her life. Young, immature, slutty, you name it. Part of that is keeping friends around from her dumb days in high school, and part of it is her not being much of a social butterfly, shy, and not being able to make good, new ones. During the course of this job, she makes some acquaintences at work.. once of which becomes her new 'best' friend (a girl) and the other who starts out as one of the crowd who eventually becomes the guy she has an affair with. Most of these new acquaintences were black. This is significant because my wife was raised to be ignorantly racist, and I became jaded to the race due to - among other things - where I was raised and events in my life. So my wife, who's taste for the hip-hop culture and the 'people' who comprise it has never extended farther than MTV and KISSFM, now all of the sudden was listening to the local rap stations, wanting more of the music videos and crappy movies "Stomp the Yard" comes immediately to mind, and going back on some of her past 'ideals' and statements. I should note at this point that her current 'best' friend is a slut only dates black guys and talks about it all the time and her new 'best' friend from this job happens to have a crush on this particular black guy that she ends up having the affair with. And they say peers don't influence you?

Anyway.. in mid Dec we have a fight adn the usual stuff happens and this time she actually starts apartment hunting. She decides to stick around for another month after I come to some deep realizations about myself and our relationship. I aplogize profusely, agree to adust and improve, and make drastic and immediate changes to my life, lifestyle, and perspective. She seems genuinely receptive and happy about this. I realize and find out later that by this point in time, she and him were already talking to each other exclusively as 'friends', texting, hanging out in a group of 3-4 people, sitting together at lunch, etc. Their relationship had already become inappropriate at this time, but she was oblivious to it. The guy had already called her 'sweetheart' in an email (oh but he says that to everyone so its ok!), and had listed her on him and his friends top 10 list of girls they'd sleep with at the office. She laughed these things off as harmless. I told her what kind of guy he was and warned her of what would happen, but by this point she thought she knew better about him and his intentions. She told me it was nothing like that, just friends, he's going through some of the same things she is so they just talk about it, etc. I didn't think too much more of it after that because I trusted her, I didn't think she was capable of anything like that, he was black and that disgusted her, and she was my beautiful wife who had a crush on me for 2 years and loved me more than anything else in the world. In fact, 2 weeks before she moved she told me that even though she was in a rough place and dealing with some hurts, she still loved me more than anything and was committed to me and would never, ever cheat on me.

So Jan roles around and she moves out one day while I'm at work. I cry and beg her not to and to come back. She assures me that it's only a temporary break, and she just needs some time. She moves in with her parents (ugh, her mom is so jaded due to her own failed marriage that she bought her a self-divorce guidebook), and she tells me that she wants to work things out and come back home asap. We start counseling immediately, and we start implementing more improvements in our relationship. By this time, I've already done many things on my own that she had wanted\needed\asked for and when we started counseling.. even more was done. She - on the other hand - became a completely different person. Starting back in Dec (pre-fight) and into Jan (post-separation) she had begun coming home less and less, spending less time with me and the kids, talking on the phone more and more and later and later, staying out later and later, etc. Around this time, the black guy saw his opportunity and took advantage of it. He claimed he was also going thtough a breakup with his fiance (a line he uses, she found out later) and they had a conversation that led to her stating that she could never EVER date a black guy because the though digusts her. He of course became simultaneously offended and determined to conquer her. It was pretty easy I imagine.. just listen to her complain about what she feels is missing, pretend to give a sh*t and give her those things, and then take advantage of her emotional vulnerability.

This leads us the middle of Feb, 2007. They sleep together supposedly for the first time. She's over at a friend's house. He calls her and says he wants to talk. He comes over there and they go to the back room. After some talking he leans in and kisses her. She forcefully pushes away and says No. He accepts her no, pauses, and leans into kiss her again. They continue kissing and immediately lead into sex. She kicks him out after the deed is done and is in shock. However.. she doesn't stop communicating with him. She also continues coming to counseling, offering me hope and promise that we would work things out, spending most of her days at the house with me and the kids. I found out about the betrayal about 2 weeks later. I checked her cell phone and saw a message saying 'dont worry well be gone so you two will have the whole place to yourself' and 'how old is you bf?'. I used a friends cell phone and texted her pretending to be that friend and asked her a few more questions ('hows the sex?' - 'it's great!'). I then confronted her with it and D-Day came into full effect.

Over the next few months she continued to see him, sleep with him, text him, work with him, sleep with him, spend time with him, sleep with him, date him, tell him she loves him and might be in love with him, and sleeps with him some more. She tells me during the same time period that she's only talking to him to get closure (for supposedly ending the relationship completely, ya right), that shes not talking to him at all, that she only talks to him at work, that shes out spending time with friends, etc. I was nearly powerless at this time as we were still seperated and she was the main account holder on our cell phone account. We eventually stopped counselling and I filed for divorce and stopped communicating with her (unless it was about the kids). I stopped paying her bills for her (she had taken money from our account and opened her own, changed her direct deposit, and drained a loan we had taken out for other reasons), and I did my best to ignore her.

Within a month she was nearly harassing me trying to talk to me and trying to convince me that she wanted to come back and that her fling was over. I agreed and laid down the rules of her coming back home. She balked for a few weeks (she was still talking to him even then and slept with him at least one more time during this balk period) and then finally buckled and came back. She made it clear that she hated me, was only coming back for the kids (95% the kids, 5% love and desire for me still), and that she was disgusted with herself and with me and had resigned herself to a life of misery and a stale marriage with me. She talked well about this other guy.. that he was a good friend, that he listened well, that he was smart\cool\whatever. That she missed him as a friend.

That was June of 2007. Since then we have come along way. We went on trips, renewed our vows, and battled it out. She has since admitted many things and discovered the truth of him and his intentions and who he really was. She found out that he had done this exact act with other married white women, and that he had lied to her about MANY things.. including where he lived. She found out that he had proposed to other girls too and told them he loved them too. He did all the stereotypical things that you can think of for some ******* to do to bed the emotionally vulnerable and insecure girl. As a result, my wife became that setereotypical whore. That 'kind of girl' that she had spent her whole life defying.

Recently I found out that a lot of her answers to my questions and inquiries were just more lies that she justified as trying to protect me from more hurt or to circumvent further discussions about her repulsive act. She contiunes to maintain however - no matter how hard I grill her about it - that she did not FOR ONE MOMENT even remotely enjoy the sex. That she had no sexual desire or attraction for him whatsoever. That she never had an orgasm (except for one time that she claimed she was thinking of me, and even called him by name in the moment). That she never, ever intiated the sex. That she never flirted or texted about their sexual encounters, and that she never 'talked dirty' or communicated sexually with him or about him at all (She claimed responding that the sex was 'great' was just her diverting further questions from that friend).

She claims that it was all emotional. She felt like she wasn't receiving certain things from me or getting certain emotional needs met. He came along and just listened (who hasnt 'just listened' to some girl you wanted to sleep with?), and she felt like he really cared. He acted like he really cared and she fell for it. Then, once the friendship crossed the line and he took advantage of her, it became something that she felt obligated to do. She told me that when she'd turn him down he would all of the sudden have other plans that prevented him from being able to hang out with her that night. Or if she turned him down, he'd flat out say that he didn't want to hang out then. Since I found out about the affair pretty soon after it supposedly started, she claimed that she already felt like the had ruined her chances with me and she was in such a dark place that she decided to let him get what he wanted so that she could continue to get what she wanted. She strung me along because she didn't want to lose me and truly loved me, but she kept up the affair with him because he was giving her the emotional things that she had become so desperate for and felt like I had deprived her of and certainly couldnt get from me now that she done these despicable things.

I of course, don't believe her. Why should my wife be the exception to the rule when she's been nothing but the dirty cliche in every other area? I'm supposed to believe that externally she fits all the molds, but secretly 'it wasn't like that'? All the evidence is there.. admission of oral, multiple encounters in a single night, hotel room purchases, etc, but I'm supposed to believe that it was ALL a result of emotional duress, anger\hurt towards me, and being taken advantage of in a vulnerable place? That there was no lust, horniness, or desire on her end at all? Surely a woman who feels like some guy is meeting her needs in some way is going to desire that guy sexually to at least SOME degree. She swears that it was never like that.

Recently, as I said, some 'new truths' have come to pass. For the 1.5 years prior to that we have made exceptional progress. We have had a son together, renewed our vows, done workbooks to restore intimacy and recreate the foundation of our relationship. Through it all I've been tormented with doubt, triggers, reminders, thoughts, feelings, etc. and she's made me feel like a terrible person for not being able to accept her answers as truth and for contuining to ask questions and contuining to be doubtful. And to me, now.. I see why. It all makes sense. And now I feel like D-Day all over. I see her as even MORE of a filty whore. I despise her more. I feel like I was duped into accepting her back and forgiving her under false pretenses.. and now I feel like it's all back at the beginning. I feel gutted all over again. Even something so simple as finding out there were 5 hotel nights instead of the 3 she originally admittied to is just devastating. Or that she rode him twice, not once. Do I even have a heart to destroy anymore? I had compartmentalized every aspect of the affair, surpressed it, and was working hard to bury it.. now I feel like I'm looking around the burial site and noticing ALL these peices that I forgot to pack into this now ultra-locked and secured box. Do I create another box for these other pieces, do I try and fit them into the original box? What happens when more pieces are discovered years down the road? I feel like she told me just enough to alleviate her guilt and keep me around at the same time, and now she felt like she was able to release a little bit more of the truth and I'd still stick around.

To her and our credit though.. She's absolutely nothing like the person she was two years ago. She's not even like the person I fell in love with (for better or worse that is). She has become a better wife, mother, and friend than ever before. She's more respectful, submissive, loving, understanding, and she attempts to help heal me and sympathize. She listens and grieves with me. She apologizes for her betrayals and become a better Christian, too. We have a lot of the semblence of our 'old' relationship back - newlywed excitment and all - at times. She has really turned her life around and attempted to right the wrongs. However..

She's been lying about things this whole time, and still does I believe. She still lies about little things (non-affair related). She's still.. 'different' to me and I don't know that that will ever go away. Her admissions are still inconsistent. She might be a better mother and wife.. but that's not why I married her! I didn't fall in love with a wife and mother! I fell in love with my beautiful treasure of a woman and I feel like she's gone forever. I can't even go on a trip to nowhere with her - and escape work, the kids, this area, everything - without a flood of reminders, triggers, thoughts, feelings, etc. I can't think without it invading my head. I regret watching all that porn (which I don't anymore) because all I see is my wife being plowed by some porn cock and loving every minuted of it. I relive all the moments in my dreams and daydreams. I relive alternate versions of those moments as well (what shouldve happened, what couldve happened, how i would respond differently now), etc. One day I feel completely in love with her and the next day I feel completely digusted. One day nothing effects me, the next day I'm so overwhelmed that I don't even feel like I can function. I go to work everyday hoping a semi will run me over.

I don't know what to do. I'm so lost. I loved my wife more than anything in the world. I was just a kid when we got married and had some growing up to do. Why didn't I get the wife who stands by her man 'for better or worse'? Why didn't I get to grow on my own time and my own terms, instead of it being forced upon me by my wife's disgusting transformation? We're doing so well now (great job, she stays home with the kids, bought a home, financial security, gadgets and cool stuff we both enjoy, etc).. but that wouldve all happened anyway! Now it all feels second-rate and tainted forever. We just went on our 4th anniversary trip and I was so happy and we made so much love and had so many emotionally intimate moments.. and I still couldnt shake the thoughts or triggers. And we came back and had a fight the next day which led to her admitting that she's still not revealing the whole truth about somethings.

I don't think I can take it anymore. If we didn't have 3 beautiful, wonderful, amazing children.. I'd already be gone. I think she knows that and that's why she's scared to be 100% honest with me (not that she ever was.. even before the affair.. I was just stupid and convinced myself otherwise). I don't want to spend the rest of my life with this vile person. I would've rather her bang 20 white guys then one black guy even ONCE (much less 20 times or w/e). I don't expect people to agree or understand, but for me.. it makes it literally 100 times worse. I cant stop thinking about it. I cant stop hurting over it. It'll be 2 years that she's been 'clean' and back home this June, and the wounds are even worse than they were back then. I dont have any hope or faith anymore. I don't even pray anymore. I don't want to think that the Lord helped us reconcile for nothing.. but that's what it feels like. I know there's nothing going on now.. and her and everyone else tells me to stop living in the past and focus on what I have now, and the answered prayers I'm experiencing now.. but how can I when the past is more prevalent in my day-to-day life than the now is? The now is only a direct result of the events of the past.

I'm sure I could write twice as many paragraphs on this.. and really, that's a VERY brief summary of the last 4.5 years of my life, but I guess I need to stop. I doubt anyone reads it all anyway. My life is utterly destroyed, by heart is utterly obliterated, and my future is utterly uncertain. I cant stand this roller-coaster of complete happiness and complete misery. I used to brag about having her as my wife, and now I'm humilated. I used to cherish every bit of her, and now sometimes I feel like I'm enduring her. I didn't do anything to deserve this, so why am I punishing myself for her? Do I still love her or am I running on the fumes of a past love? Will I ever feel the same about her? Will I ever STOP seeing her the way I do? Will I ever want her unconditionally and without exception ever again? Will I ever be myself again? I love her with all that I am, but I HATE who I am now. And I hate her for making me this way.

I don't know what to do anymore.

Hi Larry,

Welcome to the Healing Heart. Please know that you are not alone, we all feel or felt what you are going through. The lying is one of the worst parts of all this, but it is also one of the hardest things to get across to the wayward spouse (WS). There are several threads on other boards about this very thing.

There is an article in Helpful Hints to the left that is called Josephs Letter. You might print it out and give it to her. It could be helpful. The affair, and all its trappings cannot be buried, it all has to be hashed and rehashed over time for acceptance to come.

I have to ask you to edit out the part about you entering an affair with a Married Woman. This particular board is for the betrayed person only. What you wrote on the part of your life makes you the other man (OM) and is not allowed on this board. But you can certainly discuss it on the OPEN BOARD.

You have found a good place for support.

Ami

I'm not sure what part you're speaking of, I can only imagine it's where I admitted my mistake of engaging in pornography and related acts. I have not entered into a physical or emotional affair with any individual at any point in time.

I wrote that ramble pretty quickly so it's very possible that I didn't always word things in the most concise manner. I apologize for any confusion on my end.

Larry:

Welcome to the site. I'm very sorry that you've been put through this by your wife's choices. Nobody deserves to be cheated on.

I've got to start off my mentioning your preoccupation with the race of the OM. I'm sure that we have members here who are of African heritage, and I'm sure they will find some of the things you've written to be offensive. You need to understand that his race is not what you dislike about him. It's the fact that he was involved with your wife in this manner. Your anger leads you to focus on what about him is different than you, particularly anything that you think is "less" than you. But, his race is not what makes him less than you, it's his involvement in your wife's adultery. Keep focused on that and you will avoid unnecessarily offending and hurting people on this forum, and you'll have more friends.

Second, I'm glad that you understand that your wife is lieing to you to avoid "hurting" you. However, my guess is that she doesn't want to hurt you because she doesn't want you to be anymore angry with her. Of course, it backfires because you eventually figure out the truth and then you have two reasons to be angry, the betrayal AND the lie.

One thing I'm don't understand clearly is how your relationship started with your wife. It sounds like the sequence of events was:

-You met your wife through another girl you were interested in dating
-Your friendship started when she was engaged to another man and mother to his child.
-Your friendship grew to an emotional romance while she was still engaged. (Friends with benifits)
-At some point she ended the engagement and became exclusive to you.
-Prior to your wedding, your relationship with your wife became sexual. I'm not sure if there was a lot of sex prior to the wedding, or the descriptions you gave of your sexual relationship were confined to after the wedding.

I don't think I can tell you how to resolve your personal struggles with her. I think you'll have to explore yourself deeply and grow in your own ability to forgive so that you can come to some peace about that. Welcome to the site and thanks for sharing your story.

TomJ

PS I was reading your post and writing this prior to seeing the response by Ami and your follow up. I only recall reading your comment that the OM had affairs with other married women. However, if your relationship with your wife began while she was still engaged, then that would be considered an affair for our purposes on the forum.

Welcome, Larry.

Just for the record, I DID read your entire post. What I saw was a man who is hurting to his core, feeling lost, depressed, and hopeless. As Ami wrote, we understand.

If you haven't been to IC to help you deal with your depression, please go. If you have been, but just not for a while, please consider going back. My H (the WS) and I spent three years going to IC and MC.

I understand about the sex and the lying. I understand about feeling like the leftover poo. Remember that your wife has serious, SERIOUS issues that had NOTHING to do with you. Remember that, no matter what she may have claimed, her A had NOTHING to do with you. Regardless of the state of your relationship, she CHOOSE to have an A. I suggest that you read some of TomJ's posts, as he has written extensively about his wife, her lying, her denying that she had a role in her A, her claims that the OM coerced her.

Like you, I have dealt with a WS who continued to lie long after DDay. A WS tries to convince us BS, as well as themselves, that they are just protecting us by not telling us the whole story. The reality is that they very often are terrified that if we know the whole story, we will leave them/kick them out. Of course, we BS know that the simple act of staying in the relationship seems proof that we intend to work on saving the marriage. But they often feel so confused, so guilty, so bad about themselves and their actions, that they can't begin to think logically.

One suggestion I have to help you is for you to stop using negative labels, as doing so does not help you or her. Please remember, too, that cheating knows no age, education, gender, religions, races, nationalities, or income. Cheating cuts across ALL lines.

You still feel hurt because you don't feel safe to trust her yet, and you may not until you know what you feel you need to know about the A, until she has accepted complete responsibility for her actions (and stopped blaming OM, you, etc.), until she understands what is inside her that she was able to give herself permission to cheat.

If you haven't read any of the books in the Helpful Links section, I urge you to do so, as they will help you so much.

Please come to post when you feel the need, as we understand your pain, having been through our own.

fairyfriend

edited to add: I was working on this post when TomJ posted his.

"I've got to start off my mentioning your preoccupation with the race of the OM..."

Oh, I know. This is why I attempted to put a disclaimer at the beginning of my thread. I don't expect people to remotely understand or agree with my thoughts or feelings on this particular aspect of my circumstances. I certainly know it's not PC. However for me and my life.. it really adds an extra measure of pain, disgust, and betrayal to my wounds. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, I hate having to say it in the first place (1st - because of how my life has shaped my mindset in this manner, and 2nd - due to my wife's choices in this regard). He wasn't 'of African heritage', he was the stereotype that no one wants to recognize or accept to be there. There is a stark difference between any race\ethnicity and the stereotypes of them (Caucasion\Redneck-Hick, etc). And while I struggle with feeling that someone 'less' than me received the exact same things I treasured from my wife as I did (even though she swears it was different and not like that at all), I also struggle with the 'other' stereotype of all people of African heritage.. which makes me feel 'less' than him (if you catch my meaning). It's a complicated issue for me so I don't expect it to be clear and simple for someone reading a brief summary, heh. Thank you for handling it sensitively though.

"Second, I'm glad that you understand that your wife is lieing to you to avoid "hurting" you. However, my guess is that she doesn't want to hurt you because she doesn't want you to be anymore angry with her. Of course, it backfires because you eventually figure out the truth and then you have two reasons to be angry, the betrayal AND the lie.

I know. This is something I'm currently experiencing after nearly two years of 'open honesty' and 'sincere reconciliation'. I'm so angry, humiliated, plagued, troubled, disgusted, enraged, depressed, shocked, weak and more ALL OVER AGAIN.. why do I want to go through all that work again now? Why do I want to put myself in the position to be walked all over AGAIN by her.

One thing I'm don't understand clearly is how your relationship started with your wife. It sounds like the sequence of events was:

-You met your wife through another girl you were interested in dating
-Your friendship started when she was engaged to another man and mother to his child.
-Your friendship grew to an emotional romance while she was still engaged. (Friends with benifits)
-At some point she ended the engagement and became exclusive to you.
-Prior to your wedding, your relationship with your wife became sexual. I'm not sure if there was a lot of sex prior to the wedding, or the descriptions you gave of your sexual relationship were confined to after the wedding.

-We met through a mutual friend I was somewhat interested in dating, I had just met her we had kissed a few times, and then about 3 weeks later I met my future wife randomly one day and simultaneously things with that other girl started to fall apart. We got close by talking about that other girl and why things were falling apart and then she admitted she had a huge crush on me.
-She was engaged to marry this man, but didnt want to. She felt trapped due to having a kid with him, but hated him due to his consistent abuse and cheating.
-He actually called it off before things become romantic between us, then he found out she was talking to me and he called it back on (she reluctantly obliged for reasons above), and then she called it off a few days\weeks later
-Prior to and after our wedding there was frequent sex of all kind

I don't think I can tell you how to resolve your personal struggles with her. I think you'll have to explore yourself deeply and grow in your own ability to forgive so that you can come to some peace about that. Welcome to the site and thanks for sharing your story.

TomJ

I understand that, but I'm struggling now with whether or not I want to undertake the whole process again with her. Even though she didn't cheat again or have another A, she reviolated the most awful and horrific situation in our lives by lying about further. It feels like she was protecting that relationship that she claims she has such disdain for.

PS I was reading your post and writing this prior to seeing the response by Ami and your follow up. I only recall reading your comment that the OM had affairs with other married women. However, if your relationship with your wife began while she was still engaged, then that would be considered an affair for our purposes on the forum.

I guess I can see that. We were 18 at the time, he was in the Army cheating on her constantly, and she was only agreeing to marry him for the sake of the kid (whom I have now adopted as he quickly signed all his rights away). The wedding was off and on at least 3 separate times in the few months I knew her before it became romantic between us.

Larry:

Thanks for your reply. FairyFriend gives some good advice to you. The idea that the circuimstances of your marriage, or the behavior of the OM in any way caused your wife to cheat is a complete lie. The only reasons for her cheating lie in herself, in her character.

The same goes for you. There are no excuses or extenuating circuimstances that will allow you to use the affair to denegrate his race on this forum. Your discalimer doesn't make it OK. If you're thinking is racist, then his involvment with your wife tempts you to express your racism. The affair has nothing to do with his race or the stereotypes that you carry about his race, but your reaction to the affair has been to associate the affair with your beliefs about people with that race. Just as something in her character allowed her to be part of an extramarital sexual affair, something in your character allows you to draw conclusions about the OM because of his race. This is not about being politically correct, it's simply about respecting people.

Relationships often start in messy ways. It's fairly common for a new dating relationship to "start" on the heals of another, or even some overlap. Dating relationships, in my mind, don't normally have enough commmitment to constitute an affair. In addition, being attracted to someone who is committed to someone else, or being attracted to a third party while you're in a committed relationship is not an affair in my definition. Emotional affairs occur when explicit emotional intimacy is exchanged between parties where one of them is otherwise commited. Physical affairs are when explicit physical (sexual) initimacies are exchanged in the same fashion. There are sometimes gray areas, because exactly what defines an emotional intimacy is different for some than others. Also, exactly what physical acts are considered inappropriate can sometimes be in question. At the same time, there are things that almost everyone agrees on.

There are no provisions for "extenuating" circuimstances. For example, what kind of husband you were was not any excuses at all for your wife's affair, nor for the OM's involvment with her. It's just not important to her decision in the slightest, and to suggest that it has some importance puts "blame" for the affair on you, which is totally and completely wrong. Your blame (if any) is limited to what you did, in this case being less of a husband than you should have been.

Similarly, if your wife became involved with you prematurely, it really doesn't matter if your wife's first fiance abused her, at least not to the question as to if that was an affair. This fact doesn't change that her fiance's behavior was not OK, and it doesn't mean that she shouldn't have broken the engagement with him. Her behaviour might have been "aggrivated" by his abuse, but she is still responsible for her fidelity to him until the engagement is broken, and you're still responsible for your respect of that engagement (as a principle) until it has been broken.

TomJ

Larry,

I was somewhat confused on the part I mentioned that was iappropiate for this board. I thought that it was another woman entirely that you became involved with. Sorry for the confusion. Still it was an inappropiate relationship at the time. There are never acceptable reasons for any kind of affair. There are always other options.

Ami

I appreciate your post again Tom. I definitely felt guilty and took complete responsibility for her affair in the beginning. However, as I began learning that she was continuing it, I stopped that pretty quickly. That didn't stop her from continuing to blame me and hold it over my head.

The way I explained it to her once, is that there is a timeline with a giant line (the A) down the middle. I take responsibility for 75% of everything that led us up to that line (my perceived neglectfulness, my personal mistakes in regards to pornography and other related events, and my failures to her as a husband, leader, partner, and friend). That I brought us to that point in our relationship. Then, from that point on the responsibility for where we are now rests solely on her shoulders. We would've had to deal with the consequences of our (25% her! probably more really, but I'm being nice) faults and mistakes pre-line no matter what, but now because of her decisions.. we're on a completely different course.

I don't take responsibility anymore for any part of it. I only take responsibility for enabling her by acting like a fool and being pleading and desperate and letting her walk all over me. Thankfully her blinders came off long ago and she fully accepts and admits her ownership of her actions and mistakes. She claims if it hadn't been him it probably would've been anyone else that A)followed the same 'script' and B)was there for her during that time in our relationship. That was some comfort, but it was also just as repulsive. She also professes how stupid, self-centered, immature, short-sighted, hurt, naive, and blind she was.

Sigh.. this is driving me crazy.

I does drive you crazy, particularly when your wife is not fully taking responsiblity for her acts in the affair. Of course, I cooperated with her deflection of responsibility for my own reasons.

Like you, I was very dissipointed that my wife was involved in adultery, especially because I had grown to expect and count on not only her fidelity, but her loyalty to me. I recally in conversations highlighting that as something that helped to smooth over any of the short comings that I imagined she had at one time or another. It meant a lot to me.

However, the strong loyalty that I once enjoyed was destroyed by her adultery. I wanted that back, so I cooperated with her to redefine her affair as something that was the OM's fault, and not hers. However, I wasn't good enough at self-decpetion to live with this fantasy for long, so I constantly would go from happily accepting her victimhood to angrily accusing her of her disloyalty.

I think another reason that I did this was that I preferred to "excuse" her from her affair, meaning that I wanted to find a excuses that would explain it rather than forgive her for it, which would require that I accept her knowing that she had committed the acts with the OM totally voluntarily.

Once I understood that I had been excusing her to avoid forgiving her, I was able to learn to accept what she did (without approving of it, of course) and the forgive her of it. I still experience anger of it at times, but not nearly what I once did.

TomJ

A lot of what you said is very relevant of course. I just don't know if I can do that. The girl I fell in love with wasn't capable of such disgustin acts. The girl I fell in love with could never betray me in such a cold, heartless way. She became a totally different person (the OM even called her by her middle name!). My beautiful girl died that day and I've had to live with an impostor ever since.

I not only don't know if I can do that, but I also don't know if I'm capable of it. Of accepting that, accepting that all my worst fears I've convinced myself aren't true (e.g., that he thoroughly enjoyed the sex, or that she initiated\encouraged it) actually are, or accepting that it wasn't a completely different person going my her middle name.. that it was my beloved and the girl I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

I not only don't know if I can, or if I'm capable of it, but I don't know that I want to even attempt it. She's only worth it due to my memories and longing for a love that has since been traded in, or because she's the mother of our 3 wonderful kids, or because of the small glimmer of hope that we will make it through to the other side of this dark tunnel. She's not worth it to me like she used to be.. when she was worth everything in the world.

I just don't know. I was once filled with such passion, desire, and energy for her and her love. Even after she ended the A and came back.. I was filled with those things, in addition to faith, hope, and persevearance. I don't feel like I have any of those things for her anymore.. at least not consistently.

Larry,

My husband dated a person of another race and culture. In the past he had been very adamant that he was not attracted to the physical attributes of women of this particular race and he wasn't comfortable with their culture. So, because of her race, it added a deeper layer of shock and disbelief for me when I found out that his affair had been with this person.

At first, you run so many things through your mind. You wonder how well you really knew your WS - the things they told you, the way they acted - was it all the truth or was it always a lie. Is there anything about your past relationship that you can trust?

After Dday, I would be walking down the street or sitting in a bus and I'd see a woman of this race and my mind would be filled with cuss words. I realized that I was staring at them with a look of disgust and anger on my face. If I saw one with a Caucasian male on their arm, it was even worse.

I told my husband that I hated what I was turning into and I hated that he had done this to me because I'd never in my life been a racist and suddenly I was thinking and acting like one. I think it's human nature that we all gravitate towards people that are "the same" as us, people that look like us and people that share the same culture because the familiar is comfortable, but I don't think that racism is inheirant. I think that hatred towards people of another race and culture is a learned response and I was afraid that I was using my husband's affair to cultivate that hatred in myself and I think you might be doing the same thing in your situation.

I had to come to the realization that this person's race, culture and physical attributes were totally insignificant. The Ow was just a selfish human being that my WS met at a certain juncture in his life. The Ow said the right things and did the right actions at the right time to boost my husband's ego and turn him on sexually.

Any other woman could have acted the same way and if my husband could look at her without putting a bag over her head, he would have started an affair with a totally different person, regardless if her race and culture were different from the Ow or the same. It was my husband's emotions at that time and that place that initiated and started the affair. The OW was a willing participant in enabling my husband to cheat on me, but as a person, her race, culture and physical attributes were insignificant and not the reason that he cheated on me and they weren't the reason that she was a selfish person that didn't mind cheating with a married man.


"Love is strong, yet delicate. It can be broken. To truly love is to understand this. To be in love is to respect this."
- Stephen Packer -

Larry,

Please correct me if I am reading into your last post something that isn't there. I have the feeling that prior to her A, you had your wife up on a very high pedastel. When she fell, she fell a long way down. IF that is the case, perhaps you could think about the fairness of anyone putting another person on a pedastel. NO ONE can live up to some perfect image. If we expect another person to do so, we are setting that person and ourselves up for disappointment and disillusionment.

Anyway, just something to think about. I know I have my fair share of imperfections, and just because I am the BS, not the WS, doesn't make me superior to him in any way. It just means that I had boundaries in place and a commitment to him and our marriage that he didn't have.

Just my fairy cents' worth and I am sorry you are hurting,

fairyfriend

Edited to add: And, yes Larry, the girl you fell in love with could and did cheat. Perhaps your IMAGE of the girl you fell in love with couldn't and wouldn't cheat, but the flesh-and-blood girl must certainly could and did, sad to say.

Hello:  You say:  "I love her with all that I am, but I HATE who I am now. And I hate her for making me this way. I don't know what to do anymore."

I feel that perhaps, like others have said, you have had ideal pictures of who she was that you have loved.  These pictures were not real but they are natural and one of the things that I have seen here on The HH and in my own life is that the betrayed spouse often is very hurt to confront the reality which is just so different from the dream that they had.

Also, you are confronting the difference between who you are now and who you had in mind of who you wanted to be ideally - this perhaps explains why you "hate who" you are now.

In her case, as the betrayer, she has begun to see what she has done and face herself.  And, to my mind, there is nothing better than facing the reality to be a place from which to find healing - however tough it is. 

Also, I would say that both of you seem to have found the ability to see each other in this reality and that is a great blessing - And, remember that the easy escape into another relationship might just allow you to avoid the reality of yourself and the other person... And, maybe just start the same cycle all over.

From where I am, in my relationship, I view the pain and suffering (including the flashes, anger etc) as best I can as something to remind me of the real, and not the fantasy I wanted in my head.  I feel much safer facing the reality now that I know how my ideal dreams of the world lead to so much pain and suffering.  The reality keeps me alive to every moment - and in that, I hope to be able to find more happiness. 

So, you see, I am trying to hold my pain and allow it to illuminate my life - something like that.  It isn't easy but it feels like the only way right now. 

may you be safe and well, contented and happy