I only found this site yesterday and am very grateful that it exists. Unlike other sites, this one seems to do a great job of keeping things positive. Ive not read anything that isnt kind.

Four weeks ago I found a disturbing text on my Hs blackberry from a single woman with whom he works. The text had been sent in the middle of the night about a month previous to my finding it. It was saved in his inbox. While H doesnt own the company, he is the CEO so is in a position that demands keeping very clear boundaries with staff.

The text said: I love you, too. There are no words in the world to tell you how much I love you.

Like most everyone else whose stories Ive read, my world crumbled. Weve been married for 22 years and, again like so many others, I never believed my wonderful and sweet H would do such a thing to me, to our family, and to our life together.

I have never felt such overwhelming rage. I was blinded by anger. H initially claimed that it was a joke that went too far (funny joke). He has since admitted that they had exchanged similar texts for several months but that he never so much as touched her. I believe him.

He claims it started innocently enough. This particular woman is known for being a hard worker but has a very prickly personality. She is often rude to clients. H said it started out with him trying a different tack to see if he could get her to tone down the nastiness. His approach was to start with the warm and fuzzies... we all appreciate your work but we cant help but notice.... in the belief that if she felt better about herself, she might drop some of the anger.

Well, heres where the blank bits start. Somehow it went from him trying to flatter her out of her nastiness to it becoming a three month exchange of love professions. He said he cut it off dead when he got that last text from her because he realized that it had gone way, way too far. Oddly, for years he has told me how much he dislikes this woman. In fact, he STILL says he dislikes her! When hes not loving her.

H has taken responsibility for letting it get out of hand and admits that her attention gave him an ego boost. I contacted the OW myself and she, too, says that it was something that should never have happened and again, used the joke word and said that it wasnt intended to go that far. Have I lost my mind or are there some pieces missing here?

H has been reading up on As and agrees that it was an EA and that he was secretive about the affair and that he feels terrible shame for having hurt me so much.

So far all very polite and mature.

Except that I am still completely enraged by it all. Im enraged over the hurt, Im enraged that he slipped into it so easily, Im enraged that he risked his job over a possible sexual harassment charge....Im just enraged.

Even though I dont think the matter went beyond these texts and I do believe its over, I just cant get past the anger. Hes done many things right in trying to repair the damage. Hes tried hard to explain WHY it happened (probably ego related). He shows remorse, says hell do whatever it takes to rebuild my trust in him for however long it takes.... But I cant help feeling that he somehow thinks that because he never touched the woman, that the sin is more along the lines of venial than mortal. For heavens sake, he told her multiple times that he loved her!

The part thats missing from the puzzle is the piece thats driving me crazy....the HOW of it. HOW did it escalated, what steps were involved, how did it get to the point of crossing the line... But hes being pretty vague on this.

Im SO angry. Occasionally the rational me surfaces, but within minutes Im back to being a Pitt Bull. I have spewed so much nastiness at him that Ive thought my head would spin like the exorcist girls. I cant control it.

Calling it a roller coaster is so accurate. Its unbelievably painful, exhausting and frightening. The feeling of being crazed is something Ive never experienced before.

Right now I think I will neither love him fully nor trust him ever again. Theres a strange finality in this kind of betrayal. It kills what came before it.

Thanks for listening.

BS: 52
WS: 45
I cant remember what else to include...

Mikka,

I'm sorry that your circumstances have brought you to Healing Hearts, but it's a great source of sanity and advice.

Your anger is natural and expected; what concerns me are some underlying issues that I picked up from your story:

I feel you're not convinced it was just an EA.

Understandable. I would be, too. Sometimes we forget to listen to our intuitions in emotionally charged situations. My concerns would be:
The whole story about trying to make OW a better person, so your H started a campaign of flattery?

The exchange of an "I love you, too. There are no words in the world to tell you how much I love you" was still saved on his cell phone? And all that profession of love without physical intimacy?

Your comment: "So far all very polite and mature" made me want to pull my hair out. How do you control that rage...or is it he that is very polite and mature?

Hmmm. At the least I'd be real suspicious. My H's EA and PA was with a woman he had always said was ugly, that she was a cold, hard woman. We had been married 35 years, Mikka - and my H lied straight faced to me for two of them. Even when confronted with EVIDENCE, he would respond by lying and blaming the OW for trying to ruin our M! I, too, spoke to her during the 2 years, when our D-Day 2 exploded...and BOTH of them lied to me about being physical, even though the A had continued for 10 months. You see, they had prepared a pact. Basically, it was lie at all costs. And it worked, because I wouldn't believe what my gut knew to be true. It took another year for the truth to surface, when I intercepted an X-rated voice message from the OW to my H before he could erase it.

Mikka, you are only 4 weeks into this process. It probably seems like the longest month ever in your M, but it is early in your healing after news of an A. It has been 2 1/2 years for us. Our M teetered on divorce, but my H has truly done the hard work necessary for me to heal. It took a lot of courage and strength on both our parts, but we are going to make it. But I can say that at your stage - 4 weeks - I was not so certain. The pain was too raw; the anger too red.

You say: "Right now I think I will neither love him fully nor trust him ever again. Theres a strange finality in this kind of betrayal. It kills what came before it."

Yes, we've all been there. Some here may explain the Plains of Lethal Flatness...where your heart feels dull and empty. Again, you've been through tremendous stress, Mikka. And you are right when you say it kills what came before it. But what you can't see yet is that it can be rebuilt. But, of course, that takes a lot of time and effort.

So what to do? FIRST...be kind to yourself. You have undergone some traumatic stress. Think of YOU first. I think you have already started that process, and that's how you found HH. Good for you.

Know that you are NOT crazy. As the kinds folks of HH respond to your posting, you will find others who have felt the same way you do now.

Consider counseling. My H is still in that process. He has had to deal with the guilt of nearly destroying our family, and the pain of the consequences for his decisions. There is a great booklet to download from the web at www.aftertheaffair.net. It's what started him on his road to recovery.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, Mikka. I know how badly it hurts and it feels like there's no end in sight. Hopefully, if you can hang on and your H is ready to work damage control, you will start the healing process.

JJ






Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

JJ,

Thank you so much for your kindness and for the great advice. By the time I finished reading your post I was crying. What's peculiar about that is that it's the FIRST time I've cried since the whole issue blew up. I've been so agitated and angry that there's been no room for tears. Your kindness overwhelmed me.

There are so many missing pieces to the puzzle that I no longer know what to believe. The whole premise of the story seems far fetched... My H is a seasoned manager so the idea that he believed that flattering her out of her prickliness would work makes absolutely no sense. It also bothers me that both H and OW have used the same language to explain the events, as if scripted.

I don't know if my heart will survive if I learn that they've had a PA.

I know this sounds dumb but I want to thank you for telling me to look after myself. I've not given myself permission to do this.

Thank you.

You invited me to chat...I'm a bit illiterate when it comes to computers and I haven't figured out how to do that.

Mikka:

Welcome. I hope you find the support you need here. I appreciate your kind words about our site.

I too sense that you're not fully convinced that his affair is as limited as your husband proclaims. As JJ has experienced, this is often the case. It is often the case that the initial confession, if it is true at all, is not a full and complete confession of what has been done.

My wife also confessed, but she limited it to something less than the truth. In fact, I would say that it took at least five years for her to completely confess to what happened in the affair and take responsiblity for her actions and attitudes to encourage it and help it happen.

Given how often this seems to happen, I would not be surprised if there is more to this affair than your husband has confessed. However, the choice to share a complete confession is not in your control, and you probably have very little in the way of options that will verify that he has told you everything. I found that it takes time, and that when there are inconsistencies in the story of the affair it has often been because my wife was lying or leaving something out. Sadly, I learned to trust those instints rather than to trust her word.

As you eluded, recovery of a truely intimate marriage relationship is probably the most difficult thing after an affair. The fear of betrayal, the triggers that remind the betrayed of the affair, the fear of rejection, the shame, the guilt, are all barriers to rebuilding the relationshp. I think it takes incredible acts of humility on the part of both spouses to remake the marriage. On the part of the betrayed, they must humble themselves to accept a person who has abused their trust, their love, their vulnerability. On the part of the betrayer, they must humble themselves to accept the anger of the betrayed, to serve the one they hurt out of a contrite heart, to care for the wounds they have created, and consistently show love to their spouse. These are not easy things for us to do.

However, I believe it is a possible. For me, I draw on the humility and tenderheartedness that my faith brings to me, knowing that I have also hurt others and wish to be forgiven too. It helps me see my wife as someone not that different than me, particularly after she abandoned her efforts to deflect the blame for this affair from herself. When she wasn't humble, I found reconcilation very, very difficult. After she admitted to what she did, I found it much easier to work on reconcilation. However, those years of her holding on to her pride and arrogance did additional damage, and recovery was delayed by them as well as lengthened. We're getting there, but I've still been holding back some initimacies that I will need to release for our complete recovery.

I share my experiences in hope that it will help you along in your own. I hope that you and your husband can learn from this and get to down to the business of real recovery sooner rather than later, because I believe that any efforts to do it differently will only deepen the hurt and prolong the process.

TomJ

As for chatting: At the top of the postings' list, you will see SEARCH CHAT CREATE TOPIC
Click on Chat and follow instructions.

I was one of those betrayed who needed EVERY piece - or as close to every piece as possible - of the puzzle. I inundated my H with questions for a long time...and every once in a while, still one pops up.

Usually the answers I got really hurt at the moment of their telling; but I still knew I needed to know. I learned not to overreact to the answers, because after all, it's what I asked my H to finally do...be honest. Knowing the details helped me sort things out. But everyone is different, and there are many on HH who don't delve into those missing pieces.

I figured, if my H was sharing (albeit painfully) the sorted details, I could finally believe he was being truthful. That helped me to heal.

Yes, Mikka, your heart can survive learning the worst news...even if it means he's involved physically. Lots of folks will attest to that ability; but it does take herculean efforts. I can't imagine making inroads if we had only been polite and mature...at least at the start. I needed raw emotions, intimacy, and honesty. I needed to know he pained as much as I did. That helped me to know he was truly remorseful.

JJ

Mikka,

Welcome. Sorry you had to find this place, but HH is the place to be if you need it.

You have already been given much good counsel from the great folks here.

I will only add a few comments. Do not beat yourself up about continuing to be angry. That feeling, and a multitude of other emotions, will very likely come and go for some time to come. There is a reason why what you will experience is termed a "roller coaster" ride.

First thing, as was mentioned, take care of yourself physically. And also take care of yourself mentally and emotionally as much as you can.

Counseling was mentioned. Again, I would urge you to consider counseling, both marital and individual. A good counselor(admittedly not always easy to find)can help you (individually and/or with your H) wind your way through this path you've been dumped on.

Finally, but not necessarily last-- educate yourself. Look at the resources listed. Read. Learn.

For someone in your circumstance, where at least it appears your WS's A may have been confined to an EA (and even if it wasn't), I highly recommend that you obtain and read "Not Just Friends" by the late Dr Shirley Glass. It should also prove useful to your H if he reads it, to better understand some of the "how."

Again, welcome and know that there are wise people here willing to help you on your journey as you process what has happened and work your way through this.

Take care and God bless.

Len

...and Len makes an important point about counselors. We have had three...only one was truly insightful and valuable. Don't be afraid to switch if things don't feel right. Not all counselors are equally adept or experienced at dealing with infidelity.

Mikka,

I second and third everything said above by Jetta, Tom and Len.

First and foremost - TAKE CARE OF YOU...that is truly the most important thing. I know I didn't give myself the right to take care of me until someone here actually told me to do it. Make sure you are eating...sleeping...take walks to not only exercise but to clear your head.

Anger is a normal thing. When I found out what my H did I picked up his 180lb body and shoved him into a wall. Anger is a very NORMAL reaction.

Another thing I'd like to say is trust your gut. It took me several times to realize that my gut was right. If you feel inside that you are not getting the full story, then perhaps you aren't. In the helpful links section there is link to Joseph's Letter. I printed it out and read it to my H. In the letter it explains to the WS about missing pieces and what it does to the mind of the BS.

Books are also a good thing. I read After the Affair by Janis Abrahms-Spring, Not Just Friends (also by her) and my H and I both read Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley Jr and Torn Asunder by Dave Carder. My H did NOT read any books until he was ready. He had to fully purge her from his system before he was willing to read and understand the ramifications of his decisions.

If your H acknowledges that it was an EA, what is he willing to do to make things right? Is it possible for them to not work together any longer?? My H continued having to work with the OW and that simply carried on the emotional part of the affair and made it difficult for us to begin recovering. For me, No Contact was necessary and very important.

Feel free to post here to purge your thoughts...I found it necessary for me! We are all here for you, we've lived in your shoes...maybe not 100% but we can truly empathize!

Denise

Mikka,

Welcome to the Healing Heart. This was not the board I found 7 plus years ago when my world fell apart, it was another. However, this board and others like it are nothing short of miraculous when a person is hurting as much as I was and I know you are. Ifm glad you found us.

I think that you are in shock right now, it is real and it isnft and you are walking on eggshells not knowing what to really do. Anger is most likely the easiest emotion to feel. JJ, giving you validation and an understanding only another BS can give, helped to open you up. I am sure it was a relief to read her words and know that you were not the only one who felt those things. It was like that for me too when I was a raw BS.

One thing you learn after awhile, is that we BS almost never get the complete truth at first. This is a painful fact, but when you think about it from a more healed point of view, it makes sense that the WS would hold back. They have gotten so used to lying and they only give up what they feel they have to. They convince themselves that they are protecting their spouse from further pain, but gloss over the fact that they are first and foremost protecting themselves from having to be the cause of our pain. It you feel you donft have the whole story, it is very likely that you donft. To the left there is a Helpful Links section, click on the word. Now there will be a list of other links, one of them is Josephfs Letter. Print that out and give it to your H to read. Also another helpful recourse to get the WS to be more honest can be found at www.aftertheaffair.net This is an ebook that can be downloaded for a small fee. This is different from the book by Janice Abrams Spring. This is a book that explains to the WS what it is that they need to do to help their BS.

This is not an easy Journey you are on, but it is one that can succeed when both partners give it there all. As I said it was 7 years ago I learned of my Hfs EA/PA with a co-worker. Today, that is part of our past, a very sad part, but it is for the most part in our past. I donft regret the decision to stay, and I can truly love my husband again. I trust him again, but very differently. I trust as long as he behaves trustworthy. If something bothers me, I let it be known. It takes time, but healing does come.

Ami

@

I know of no better way to hurt someone than to betray them in adultery.  This does not help you other than to allow you to know the scale of the injury done to you.  In my case it led to a kind of breakdown in my life - I am no longer the same person I was before my d-day - One thing important to me has been to recognise the loss of my own self delusions as to how people can be to each other - It still feels to me (3.5 years after d-day) that my wife has taken a sharp kitchen knife and pushed it into my guts whilst looking into my eyes and saying she loves me.  I am still a "broken" man in many ways I realise.  But this is what I have to work with - and in some ways I am more open hearted too - I have found I can relate to the suffering of others - And I have much less regard for the material world - I see changes then - even progress - but not along any path that is easy - I do feel I will be able to die more easily when it comes along - Is that progress, perhaps.  Please don't take this as negative - I mean not to upset you - I share so you may feel compassion and empathy from another hurt soul - I feel them all around me these days.

may you be safe and well, contented and happy

Dear Mikka,
Welcome to our safe place of healing. It was 10 years ago that my much beloved husband broke my heart. I was suspecting the unimaginable. We were totally in love, but I thought he had become depressed.I married him for better or worse and stayed by his side for the worst.

Eventually I knew the truth. I confronted him and he confessed. That was 10 years ago. From that moment he has made a new man of himself. He agreed to do anything I asked for as long as it took to rebuild my trust. He was a total fool. 100 years ago when we were only married 4 years he went on a business trip that lasted 6 weeks. It was the worst decision of our lives. He ended up flirting, dancing and eventually sleeping with MINUS the sex, another woman. When I went to the other state for the weekend to visit him he begged me to stay. Super employee that I am I could not take extra days off to stay with my husband. I flew home. On his last night there I got a message from him on my answering machine. " No matter what happens, I will always love you". What happened was after dinner and dancing on their last night together he asked the other woman to sleep with him. She did. However, she claimed she had a biopsy ( of what I don't know ) and could not have sex.

He came home and the inquisition began and lasted for as I remember it about a year. My mother and best friend insisted I was being foolish. He loved me totally. Nothing had happened, except as he told me, dinner and one kiss. It was a mistake it was over. I found out the whole truth as I wrote above 30 years later when I asked him on d day what really happened on THAT business trip. Since he had just confessed to a current affair, and now that, I asked what else I should know. Well.. all told their had been FOUR affairs. Since he got away with the almost intercourse on the business trip he got braver, and stupider.

None of the women meant anything to him, although he told each of them he loved them. For him it was the excitement of an ego boost and new sex. It was the allure of the forbidden. Even though he did not like any of these women's personalities, and their looks and body were to say the least not worth a second look. He enjoyed the unencumbered fun of illicit sex.

He actually said to me " what you didin't know did not hurt you". Yeah, you spend all those years carrying the man you love on your back because you believe he is depreesed. Depressed my foot, he was an adulterer. I married a good and decent man and loved him with all my heart and I was played for a fool.

It took me a long time to deal with my emotions. I did not cry on d day, and not for a long time after. I told him if we had any hope we had to start therapy immediately.

Our therapist thought we had no hope at first. My husband was completely devoid of any sense of the devestation he had caused, and I was totally absolutely destroyed.

We went to therapy individually and together. Between therapy and NON STOP talking about the nightmare our lives were quite consumed. It was excrutiatingly painful. We call it the roller coaster from hell.

However, as my H used to often say, that was then , this is now.

Here is what happened. I read every book I could get my hands on, check out as Ami so perfectly described our healing links.

Also read dearpeggy.com and her wonderful books. She is perfect, and with good reason. She too was a betrayed wife, so she understands the pain and the healing.

Understand there are three types of healing. Yours, his, and the marraige. You are responsible for your healing with or without him. You do NOT have to make any decision about the marraige for at least a minimum of a year. I changed my mind every five minutes for the first two years, leave, stay, run!

Through out all our healing my H has done everything right. He has been totally honest and committed to our healing. He did what ever I asked and then some. He was totally visible giving me total access to ALL his communication including answering ALL of my questions. I needed to know EVERY detail and I do mean EVERY. Some people want to know as little as possible. In time you will know what your needs are, there is no right way. What is important is his willingness to answer your questions adn to help you in evey way possible. He will NOT remember all details, but he must be willing to try to help you and to be totally honest and TRY to answer.

Therapy, reading, non stop talking and this board were the keys to our healing our marraige and my broken heart.

I can now proudly say I totally love my husband. I do NOT trust him 100%. I will never ever trust anyone that much again. I do trust him as much as I trust any other person. That trust has been earned. He has been completely transparent. He has learned a horrible and terrifying lesson. He has learned he could have lost me forever. He never thought about that. He thought I would simply never find out. Someone here once wrote they think they are effing invisble and invincible. Those words helped me so much. It explains their stupid thinking... something we can NEVER understand but learn to accept that it is a fact. It simply is stupid thinking and that effing statement explains it so well!

Your anger is so understandable. We have all been there. You have been betrayed by the one person who promised to love and cherish you. It makes you feel like the lowest slime on the planet. Your self esteem is shattered. However, in time and with lots of hard work you will one day feel like a full person again. With or without him you are responsible for YOU.

Healing DOES happen. It hurts beyond words.We are here for you. Write often someone will always respond. Visit chat as JJ told you. She is another wise and understanding member of healing. Everyone who has written to you is a wonderful person who only wants to help. All of us here understand and we stay to help others who follow. Newbies who are hurting, who we ask to only reach out to others when you are feeling stronger.

This is a wonderful loving place filled with friends who care and understand. Write and visit often. In the begining I lived here! Now, I visit when I can but only to offer a helping hand. The pain is gone, but the memory of it will live forever. It is like loosing a limb. You learn how to compensate and become strong again, but it takes time and hard work. Today I am a whole person again, and I have gained life long loving friends from this board. People who have helped me to live and to grow. My husband and I are very much in love and I have never for one moment regretted giving him the chance to EARN my love and respect. Today he is the man I love, and the man I am grateful to share my life with, because he has learned WHY he did what he did, and what it cost us. He is forever grateful that I loved him enough to listen to his story and give him a chance to prove his remorse. He is a wonderful man, who made a tragic choice, but I feel safe that he has learned his lesson, and now knows what is important in his life.

I wish you healing.

EL

Hello Mikka, I agree with others that it doesn't sound like your H is being entirely open and honest with you. That email from the OW speaks to more than what he and she claim. You also feel something different in your belly. I wish it were more possible for a WS to get it, that telling the truth and being open as far as the BS needs is an essential path to restoring full intimacy, trust and respect. I think a WS needs to feel some safety somehow in disclosing. It's one of the benefits of therapy because there is someone else who can draw out information and help the BS and the couple with this information. After 6 years I've reached the point where I have forgiven my H but I am certain that he has not been fully open with me about his actions and relationships. I think he has gone as far as he can without professional help but I wish he had simply said it all - it wouldn't have made a difference re. forgiveness (though it might have come sooner) but it would have deepen my respect for him as an individual. I don't have much advice about how to get your H to be honest beyond what others have said. I do think counselling is really important - it's not a guarantee about truth-telling, lots of WS lie just as easily to a therapist as to the BS but a spouse who wants to tell but is afraid, ashamed etc. may find it easier to be supported by a counsellor when they are confessing everything. M

Dear Mikka,
You are so lucky you found HH so soon after D Day. I didn't get here until a couple of months later - I was crying non-stop, didn't sleep, lost weight, alternated between huge love and deep hatred, felt totally lost and had become non-functional.

My story bears some similarities to yours so I will share. Remember, however, that your H may not have had a PA. You will find a lot of skepticism here as most of us held on to that belief for a long time until we just couldn't. But, we could be wrong. Your H may have had an EA only - though the effects of that are also traumatic and you shouldn't minimize the impact it has had on you and your sense of security. "I love you's" were shared. That is not supposed to happen and you are railing against a man and a world where it did. Trust your gut - now that the issue is on the table, your antennae will get stronger and stronger.

My H was also CEO of a company. He travelled a lot, worked late hours, could never be reached on his cell phone after hours -because he was in "the conference room" or he was always in the one place in the entire city where there no cell service. One Saturday, a woman called our home and he said she was just a young girl in the office who needed to talk about work (On Saturday night???). The next day, he said he would go out to bring me coffee. He came back HOURS later because "the line was so long." Then, I found a series of e-mails that just didn't feel right - comforting her because her father was ill but not in a professional way. I let it go because, after all, she was a young girl with a very sick father. Deep down, I knew something was not right, the stories did not make sense but H made me feel like I was the one who was crazy. Our MC later told us that I had been "gaslit," which I think is a great expression (from a movie where H tries to drive W insane by playing with gaslighting.)

I am an intelligent, educated woman and I believed all of it!!!!! I was in total denial. Finally, I found a note from H to OW that said she "was the woman he should have married." I was sick, literally nauseous, panicked, frightened, furious, so hurt that words don't cover it. I still have not totally forgiven myself for being so incredibly stupid and gullible.

The story came out slowly over the next 6 months. Each discovery tore my heart out.Turns out my moral,noble, honorable H of 20 years had a 6 month PA with intermitten contact for the next few years, a ONS, several inappropriate flirtations (and I still think there may be more more that I don't know about.) All were with women from his office, most were significantly younger and idolized him. His behavior is repulsive to me and now, happily, to him too.

Immediately after discovery, we went into Recovery mode and committed to trying to make our M work. It has been rocky and along the road, I wanted to give up many times, particularly as more was revealed. We both went to IC, we went to MC, my H dealt with alcohol issues (another story)and we have made it...but it took time...boy, did it take time.

Today, our M is stronger than it has ever been and we love each other with respect and caring. And, most importantly, I am stronger than I have ever been.

So, this is a long way of saying that your rage is so, so normal. Not feeling rage would be abnormal. And, I am sure that your feelings are layered and complex. Think about whether MC or IC would be good for you. Think about what you need from your H - it sounds like there are a lot of questions. He truly may not remember or there is something to hide. Welcome to the murky, hideous world of betrayal. So, so, so sorry you are here ...but the bright side is that you will meet and grow close to wonderful, wonderful people if you stay.

Remember, you can say anything here. Nothing is too crazy or unbelievable.

Susan

Something important I didn't see mentioned is that you should get a full set of STD testing done on yourself and insist that he do the same. I got two back to back yeast infections that should have been a clue. I also got a strain of HPV that lead to precancerous cells being removed from my cervix, and he contracted a skin disease that thank goodness didn't transfer to me. If you do have something, well you'll have to decide then if it means that he did something, if you don't have anything it doesn't really mean anything one way or the other. But, you should still do it, HPV is transferrable even if a condom is used and it can lead to cancer. Don't take the risk with your personal health.

This sounds so much like my situation, it is scary. My husband does own the company. I am an accountant and own my own business. This woman was his controller, in office, AND goes to our church. That is how he came to hire her in the first place. On top of that, his office is 2 hours from our home. The were going out to dinner, watching movies with her kids, staying at the office well into the night.

I found one day's worth of email that I believe God saved on a computer of deleted emails. There were 1300 texts between the 2 of them in 2 months. She was the "woman he waited his whole life for" and "the most beautiful woman in the world." I saw this in writing on the emails, and so much more. One said, "I love your hugs; can't wait to be in your arms again" They spoke of their future together. And I am to believe there was no physical contact? They claim he bent over her desk and kissed her on the forehead once because her husband was so abusive.

It has been nearly a year and I am still very angry. In addition, she goes to our church and we see her twice a week; every week.

A word of advice; make him go to counseling. I go, but my husband isn't. He thinks that since he admitted he was wrong, it's over, get over it. I should have demanded it before I let him back into my life.

Mikka,
First I want to say welcome..
You may never know what fully happened but you have to realize that his EA was not about you but him..We all relate to what you are going thru and all I can say is that you have come to a wonderful place..

(((hugs))))

Pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

Thank you. Thank you to everyone for sharing your insights and experiences. I dont think Ive felt this loved and supported in a very long time. Youre stars, all of you.

I dont know how to add quotes, so Ill just copy and paste where needed...

Ami: as soon as I read your post I downloaded the e-book you recommended. Heres evidence of how rule-abiding (or not) I am; the book opens with a warning that spouses of the wayward shouldnt read the book. So I didnt...until my curiosity got the better of me and I flew through it in a couple of hours. Its a wonderful, wonderful guide for WSs and I immediately gave it to my H. He claims to have read most of it, but Im still not seeing results.

Jerry: Your description of your pain is the closest thing Ive read toward explaining what we hurt spouses feel when faced with this kind of betrayal. Your words are poignant, truthful and unspeakably devastating. Recognizing ones own self-delusions is, as you point out, exquisitely painful; because, of course, theres no going back (Im not religious but its rather like the biblical fall from grace; tasting of the knowledge of good and evil). A common conceit used in libel/slander law is the idea that one cannot un-ring a bell...this new knowledge just adds another layer to an already complex miasma. That you are not the same person you were before your d-day is something that will cause you grief, mourning. Whats uplifting and especially generous about your post, however, is your appreciation for the suffering of others. You paid heavily to get there, but what a great gift.

EI: Thank you for sharing your experiences. As I read your post I found myself identifying with all the bits that spoke of your pain.... When I told my 86 year old mother about my Hs activities, she suggested going the Rose Kennedy route and turning a blind eye. Well, no, I cant do that. I was also interested in your Hs comment (or maybe insinuation) that what you dont know cant hurt you. This is a very tricky area for me at the moment because my H, in a moment of exasperation, suggested that it would have been better if hed lied. I have to be careful about inviting hubris into this point, but I do believe in a code of honesty which says that hurt occurs whether the offended party knows of the offence or not. In time, I hope I will reach your point of healing. Right now, it seems an impossibility.

Anonymous: Thank you for suggesting that counseling might help my H to open up. I agree that to some extent it removes the burden of responsibility for seeking answers away from the betrayed spouse. Ill add a quick up-date at the end of this, but one of the issues thats really bugging me at the moment is that it is I who have been looking for a counselor, when I really think this should be my Hs job.

Susan: First, Im so sorry you had to go through so many intervals of discovery that must have torn your heart to shreds. I take comfort in knowing that youve been able to re-find love with your H. Today, for me, the idea that I might ever cherish my husband again even more is like being a flat-earth society member who learns the truth. I am uplifted and made hopeful by your post.

Hope: Thank you for such good, practical advice. Even though I desperately want to believe that my Hs affair was only an emotional one, I will make an appointment for testing.

Michelle: Thank you. There is a special kind of pain/hell that comes with reading love-exchanges between a spouse and his/her lover. Theyre raw evidence that might otherwise be sugar-coated in the re-telling. They devastate in a particularly cruel way.

Pat: Thank you. Thank you. Your kindness means a lot to me.

Update: Since I last posted, the roller coaster has continued. My H and I have had intermittent days of being warm and loving with one another during which times Ive felt no anger, resentment, or angst. But those days are almost always punctuated with equally unruly, crazy-rage days. I never know from one hour to the next what Ill feel. Yesterday, I wanted the marriage to end. Today, Ive withdrawn. Tomorrow....who knows....

My H is riding it out and trying to navigate my moods as best he can, but Ive yet to feel that he understands the gravity of what hes done to me, to himself, and to our marriage. I think hed be quite happy if it all just disappeared. Hes still minimizing the affair, still saying he doesnt even like the woman, still saying he has no idea how it went as far as it did, still saying that it was a mistake, still saying it was nothing and that it just got out of hand.

All I think is, uh, no, over-salting the potatoes is a mistake; having an affair is a choice. And, really, telling me that it was nothing isnt exactly a clever line of defense...he tore my world apart for nothing?

Im beginning to worry that we live on different planets.

Mikka - I'm just going to respond to your comment re. wishing that he rather than you were looking for a therapist. My H once said to me when I had started another conversation about his A was that when we had these conversations is that he felt he had been hit in the chest with a shovel. Ok, I wasn't hugely sympathetic, but it did tell me that revealing this kind of truth may be as difficult as hearing it. We look forward to getting a therapist because we anticipate getting some truth, some support, some help etc. A WS maybe fears counselling because a lot of what will be revealed will be utterly shameful and difficult. I hoped too that my H would put more energy into finding a counsellor - he did try. It was more complicated for us because he was very well known in our community. My doctor knew him by reputation. My counsellor later revealed that he had taken some courses from my H (i would never have seen this therapist had I known - he was quite helpful but also biased in that he felt my H had also let him down).
Sorry - I am sidetracking. What I am meaning to say is that yopur goal is to get both of you to a therapist - focus on that. It would be good if your Hs helped - one way may be that if you can find 2-3 names of possible people - you can sit down with him and decide together who you will approach or in what order etc.

The rollercoaster of emotion is very hard. A BS does feel broken as Jerry described and the swinging back into some more positive emotion is I think part of trying to keep the human spirit from complete despair (though we all are there for periods of time as well). The positive emotional rebounds are a bit protective - like a time out. I wishe there was a way to harness them and just keep them in some part of the brain so we could have some control over them and could take them out when we need them. It's the out oc control rebounding that is so difficult. It will get better.

MM

Thanks, Anonymous (M-M) for your interesting and insightful comment about the swings back to normalcy being self-protective. It makes perfect sense.

We're having our first MC session today and am hoping it will help the process. I've become very withdrawn from my H over the last while, limiting my contact to email and allowing myself to stew in private. If my emails are heated, he replies that he will not answer anything that isn't polite! I guess I'm not allowed to be angry.

One of the things that I've been stewing about is the very first thing he said when I confronted him about the A - in paraphrase, it went something like: "why shouldn't I enjoy something that makes me happy when you just get up at 10:00 every morning and have coffee". In other words, my being unemployed (by traditional standards) entitled him to have an A.

Why this is so galling is that for our first 20 years together he worked in the company I started before I met him (a successful company that gave us a great lifestyle)...when I decided to sell the company several years ago and concentrate on writing a textbook that a publishing company had agreed to publish, I guess it no longer seemed to him that I was actually working. Because I wasn't going out of the house to an office everyday, I was, in his eyes, unemployed.

This may not have hurt me so much were I not also keenly aware that I am ten years older than he and struggling with all the self-esteem issues that come with middle age - particularly the feeling that my power-years are long behind me.

It was a particularly cruel comment given my 20 years of 60+ hours of weekly work.

You are seeing the results of justification and guilt. When a person does something that they know is wrong, they look for rationalizations and justifications to give themselves an "excuse" to do it. My wife did this, my kids do this, I've done it, and just about every wayward spouse who has honestly shared their thoughts and experience will tell essentially the same story.

The OM in my wife's affair had been betrayed by his wife about six months before she began her affair with him. His wife was apparently not working on reconcilation, continuing to commit acts of betrayal, continuing to abuse him by seeking out the circuimstances that lead to these betrayals, continuing to abuse him by speaking harshly to him, and not fully participating in taking care of their home and their children. She even engaged in a physical attack on him, kicking him in the ribs and other places.

The OM rationalized that he was free to have an affair with my wife because of his wife's treatment. My wife and I spoke about this, and also about how she used circuimstances in her life, some of which I felt responsible for creating, to rationalize that she 'deserved' her affair relationship because it made her feel good. Recently in one of our conversations she made the point that both of them had engaged in a very unhealthy, but typical, human tendancy to justify bad behavior with things that are supposidly out of their control.

Instead, my wife said, both of them should have taken better actions to deal with their situations. For example, the OM could have separated himself from the abusive situation. He could have sought real professional counseling rather than looking for "help" from my wife. He did not have a "good reason" to betray his wife, to betray his kids, or to betray me.

Similarly, if your husband is like my wife then his search for excuses is how he (improperly) rationalized his behavior. I'm sure that he'd see this if he could gain an objective perspective on what he is saying. I wonder, exactly how your current work situation causes him to be happy or unhappy? I also don't understand how an affair partner can make him "be happy". I've heard this excuse before from other WS, and I just don't see any connection.

I also don't get how his choices were at all helpful for creating happiness in his life, for you or for him. Certainly, if they were right then they would work for similar circuimstances too. For example, if he was working from home, then would that justify you to have an affair? Would it make you happy? Would he accept it as OK? I doubt it.

It's obvious that his unhappiness is more about him and what is lacking in his own motivations than anything about you or your choices. Don't let his rationalizations for wrong behavior drag you down. Know that you have made reasonable choices, that these were probably even made with joint discussion between you. I'm sure that, like me, there are things that you can learn about yourself through this experiece to improve yourself, but you are not the root cause of his behavior.

TomJ

Thank you, Tom. The point you made about my H and I having been united in the decision for me to work from home was a good one. In the middle of emotion, its hard to focus on details like that one. Indeed, it was very much a joint decision, and I am grateful for having been reminded of that truth.

We had our first MC session yesterday and it went well. The counselor surprised me by asking for all the details of the A; how it started; how it escalated; what was going through his mind during the engagement; what the process was by which he gave himself permission; what he got out of it; and so on. While no new details emerged, my H was very willing to explore all the why and how issues that Ive not had much luck in gaining insight into. (MC really is a good thing!)

My H told me on the way home from MC that hed made an appointment for IC with a psychologist. I was happy to hear this because I do believe the issues are deep ones. He also mentioned that hes been feeling dead inside for a long time - which might also explain some of his resentment against the grind and drudgery of his daily work life; while my work life, by comparison, is free, creative and certainly self-directed. No excuse, I know, but it added another layer of understanding.

My H is an avid mountain biker and I also learned yesterday that hes been doing some very risky things when hes out cycling....going down mountains at a ski resort near our home. He also told me that hes signed up for glider flying lessons. Im certainly no psychologist, but if you put all the pieces together, this increase in risk-taking behaviour does seem to all fit together. I am not in any way justifying his EA there is no excuse, ever. But I think its important to look at the entire picture. I believe that if I spent five minutes inside his head, Id see a man who has been a dedicated husband and father since he was 22 years old and who somehow feels deadened by the years of routine, and who now needs to stub his toe on life to feel vibrant again. Mid-life crisis would be the least worrying explanation. Im more concerned about depression.

The MC gave H clear guidelines on how to react to my anger along with homework that involves showing me consistent, honest remorse everyday for as long as it takes me to work through the trauma.

Your comment about the curiousness of how its possible that the AP can make the WS feel happy is an interesting one. In my case, I think the AP simply made him FEEL.

Tom, Im new here so dont know everyones stories. Where are you and your wife now in your marriage?

Mikka
I am so glad you wrote back. I have been wondering how you are doing. I am also glad you are relating to Tom's story. That is the value and honor of our board. Our common understandings help us to heal. Tom is the founder of this board and a dear and old friend. We met here 10 years ago and he has been one of the many cherished friends who have helped me to find healing.

You wrote in response to me concern about ever finding my level of healing. That distressed me and I have been trying to think of how to respond. Then your post gave me that answer.

You just wrote "No excuse, I know, but it added another layer of understanding." and that is the perfect answer! NONE of it is ever excusable. However, with lots of hard work, endless talk, writing here and having your feelings validated and lots of counseling you do "reach another layer of understanding" and that is key. I have often said I will never forgive but do accept what has happened as part of our lives. Acceptance from now on better translates to another layer of understanding, with thanks to Mikka!

That is what happens. We never FULLY comprehend how they could do such a horrendous thing. But with hard work we do reach levels of understanding and are better able to make decisions about what is best for us.In time this becomes healing. There are three types of healing, yours, his, and the marriage. The first year the betrayer must carry the full load of healing the marriage. You are recovering from PTSD and your full healing energy is centered on YOUR healing. A good therapist as yours seems to be will help him to understand his role, and responsibility in causing this horrific pain of betrayal.

Depression, mid life crisis whatever was going on inside of him it was NOT your fault It was HIS choice as to how to solve HIS PERSONAL problem.

My H felt I was the perfect wife. He chose to build his self esteem by harmless flirtations. That led to carefree sex. Meanwhile I was a hard working successful professional who was also raising our children, pretty much alone while my husband was "busy at work," or whoring.

I loved my H completely but there is only so much energy to go around.I was constantly exhausted, and very much overworked in every area of my life. Due to his "harmless" flirtations his success at work suffered.

As I became more succesful at work his career went off track due to his "distractions". I thought the poor baby was depressed. I never harassed him, all I did was comfort him. Never knowing what he was doing to further distract himself from continued failure. I loved him through the worst or so I thought..

Then d day happened 10 years ago. All I can say is from that day one he has worked harder in EVERY area of his life to prove to me that he was worth a second chance. I have no regret for allowing him to prove to me that he was the man I once loved with all my being.

WHATEVER your husband's reason, it has NOTHING to do with you. Each of us is responsible for our own life, happiness and decisions. Your life style is due to YOUR efforts. If this includes drinking coffee at 10 AM it does NOT also include some of the joys of sharing that coffee with co workers, or going out to lunch dressed in your fanciest outfit. There are perks and disadvantages to every job.

It seems clear to me that your husband was looking for a thrill a challenge and he found it. Now he has to find a greater challenge. He has to challenge himself (with the help of a therapist) to be the best man he can be for himself. Because only then will he be worthy of earning the love of an honorable woman. You are worth the best. He needs to prove worthy of you.

Others have warned you that there may be more truth to come. Full disclosure is painful and takes time. Now that you are both in therapy you will find the strength you need to figure our for yourself if there is more to hear, or if you want to hear it all. Our experience here has shown that sometimes it takes time for all that needs to be said.

Are you and your husband reading the healing books on the left? Please keep us informed as to how you are doing. You would be amazed at the love and healing that we feel for each other. We know your pain only too well and want only to hold your hand as you go through the roller coaster from hell. We write becasue we have been there and no healing IS possible but that it takes time and knowledge. We are here for you.

With love,
EL

Dear Mikka

You said: "In my case, I think the AP simply made him FEEL". This is exactly what my H said about his affair. He had just turned 50, had the cares of the world on his shoulders (job, kids, parents...), and couldn't feel anything. I think he had some idea that even feeling bad (because of the A and what it would do to us and our marriage) would be better than feeling nothing. He describes it as anomie, a state of rootlessness, futility, anxiety, amorality; of breakdown of social norms. He had a one night stand which turned into a 4.5 year physical and emotional entanglement with a very needy and insecure woman who used him to recharge her own ego. He knew it was wrong, he was desparately unhappy, he dreaded every contact, but he couldn't break away from it.

We found the book "I don't want to talk about it" by Terrance Real was very helpful in understanding male depression and how it leads to uncharacteristic addictive behaviour.

Good luck

Liz

>Tom, Im new here so dont know everyones stories. Where are you and your wife now in your marriage?

Thanks for asking. My wife's affair was a little over nine years ago. It took several years (five or so) to get to the point where my wife was willing to tell me the whole truth, including the truth about her feelings toward the OM. This stuggle delayed and prolonged the healing process, in my opinion. Our relationship changed drastically once she took this step. We went from something that was mostly (or often) adversarial to something that was closer to what we had before the affair. We still aren't all the way back to the intimacy we had before the affair, and I still have stuggles with my view of her (respect and admiration in particular). I think a lot of what remains holding us back has a lot to do with my willingness to restore the things that I took back when I was not getting the cooperation I needed.

We still talk about the affair when we need to. For me, it still comes up frequently, mostly due to triggers that occur when we are physically intimate. I think it helps that she does not react badly to these discussions.

I have a feeling that this is what forgiveness looks like, at least in many ways. I don't punish my wife with her acts, but I do share my struggles with her. I don't forget what she did, but I don't act out in revenge toward her when I remember it. In many ways our daily lives are what they would have been without the affair.

TomJ

Thank you so much, everyone, for your wonderful words of support.

EL, I think one can never hear often enough that the A is not ones fault (eek, didnt mean to sound like the Queen!). In the midst of emotionally charged discussions, its hard not to buy into the justifications. I cant tell you how many times Ive repeated your words to myself - this is not your fault.

During a recent conversation, I asked my H if he still felt vulnerable to continuing the affair (which he claims ended before I discovered the text) or engaging in a new one. It probably wasnt a well thought out question, but I put it out there anyway. His answer dismayed me. He said that he had to be perfectly honest with me...which I understood to mean that his honesty should somehow mitigate the message...but that because he didnt know how it had happened this time - and until he understood how it had happened this time - he couldnt make any promises that it wouldnt happen again.

What I heard was denial of personal responsibility. It happened TO him. Some unknown thing deep in his unconscious self made it happen TO him. He stepped off the curb and, damn, got hit by the affair bus! Im sure Im not alone in thinking that self-knowledge has nothing to do with moral decision making.

This idea of denying personal responsibility is a big one and it sent me in search of information about remorse (theres a good piece in the library here on it). While I see my Hs guilt, shame and embarrassment, I dont see remorse. In my search, I found a Google book called Compassion and Remorse by Steven Tudor and it makes some good points. He says:

The experience of guilt feelings fails to direct ones attention to what is most important: those whom one has wronged and oneself as the one who wronged them. When one experiences guilt feelings one feels a certain fear or anxiety which is focused on ones own terrible condition. Guilt is, essentially, a kind of self-pity since it is an absorption with ones own wretched condition, lacking attention to the other [whom] one has wronged.

In contrast, the suffering of the remorseful self involves, not this sort of self pitying fear, but rather a kind of horror at what it is one has done to the other.... The lucidly remorseful self would feel no less horror or anxiety if she learned that her deed will remain undiscovered and that there will be no reprisals. ..... (Apologies to Mr.Tudor if my copying isnt exact.)

The gist of the book is that remorse is transformative; that remorse involves empathy for anothers suffering, caused by the self, which is profound enough to generate change at the character level.

Although this issue came up in our last MC session, Im not sure that either the counselor or my H recognized the gravity of Hs comment. When I expressed concern about not feeling safe under these conditions, the counselor, oddly, reminded me that Ive never been safe and there are never guarantees of safety. Hmm.

Liz, anomie is a perfect word. As soon as I read your post I ordered the e-version of Terrance Reals wonderful book and zoomed through it in three days. Quite apart from enjoying Reals great writing style, the book brought many, many issues into focus. An unrelated thing I learned from it is that my H and I have been rather good parents to our son - a young man who is unafraid of emotion and whose self-esteem seems not to be dictated by much else than his knowledge that he is a worthwhile, good person. My H has ordered a hard copy for himself. Thank you for the excellent tip.

Tom, thank you for starting this board. While stats may not be important to you, you surely must know that your initiative has helped to change the lives of many people. If there is a phoenix story, maybe this is it. Your personal suffering has given voice to the suffering of others. Again, thank you.

P.S. I'm not sure how to make quotation marks and apostrophes show up.

Hi all,

I just wanted to add something. During our last MC session, my H described his affair as being ego-driven.

He said the AP was in need of help and he jumped in to save her. Using his words, he said he was the "white knight" who could rescue her from her pain, and she reflected back to him his wonderful heroism.

I would imagine that, on some level, there would be a disconsonance between being, at once, the hero and anti-hero. In his very moment of being the white knight, he actually became the black knight.

That can't possibly be a happy place.

Mikka,

Regarding a recent conversation you had with your H, you wrote, "His answer dismayed me. He said that he had to be perfectly honest with me...which I understood to mean that his honesty should somehow mitigate the message...but that because he didnt know how it had happened this time - and until he understood how it had happened this time - he couldnt make any promises that it wouldnt happen again."

I don't presume to read your H's mind, but I would not necessarily jump to the conclusion that he intentionally meant to mitigate the message. To the contrary, until proven otherwise (and i realize at this point you have little reason to trust anything he says), it seems to me to indicate an admission based on insight. He acknowledges he has not yet understood the reasons; if he can't understand them how can he provide the promise you seek?

I know in some of the earlier posts it was suggested that you and your H seek counseling, individually and possibly also MC. Maybe i missed it in your other responses but I cannot tell if either of you are going to counseling. While people can gain great insights by reading... sometimes it is also necessary to get the assistance of a knowledgable (emphasize knowledgable) professional to gain insight into their behaviors. Please encourage your H to pursue counseling if he has not already done so.

And also, while I understand your dismay and disappointment at his apparent lack of acknowledgeing responsibility, please remember that you are both early into this process. (I know, not what you want to hear.) Everything is not likely to turn around overnight.

Dear El, who is almost a level beyond wise, and her H took years to navigate the reconciliation process. Each person's time table is different, but from all that I've read on HH over the years, it is rare that everything completely improves quickly.

I wish you and your H well on your journey. Do not give up. Keep coming here. It's a safe place to vent and express your emotions and frustrations and you will benefit from the wisdom and caring of those who have been down the path before you.

Take care and God bless.

Len

Hi Len. Thank you very much for your insights. I do worry that I am absolute in my sense of morality and that I may be absolutely unbending when moral lines are crossed. Your post has made me think.

I dont want to obscure the issue by floating off into theory, so Ill just say that a big part of me believes that while decisions to hurt or not to hurt can be catalyzed by all sorts of underlying issues, the final choice - that last decision - lives outside the world of personal history.

It actually gives me hope to know that you feel my H's comment may have been self-insightful.

Im glad that my H is seeking to understand himself. He has lived through things that Im sure few of us could ever imagine surviving. In overcoming those hardships he has become not only a wonderful human being, but a great father and, until this issue arose, an even better husband. Im not blind to his struggles.

I guess I just dont understand how such a lovely and kind person went from A to Z without apparent introspection.

But maybe thats the dilemma we all face.

The message was removed due to a violation of our site Policy, which prohibits posts that are "designed to solicit business or interviews from forum members". Because the same message has been repeated on a large number of threads and is unnecessarily intrusive, we have concluded that these messages are not intended to further the stated purposes of The Healing Heart.

Hello princess...

I'm not sure I understand your request. (Does anyone else?)

mikka

Okay. To everyone - thanks for everything. I'm feeling a bit uneasy about this poster so will take my leave. Again, many thanks.

Mikka, Not sure that anyone should answer the post from Doris..it made me uncomfortable too.

((((hugs))))

pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

Im glad to see that Doris has gone!

Several times since d-day my H and I have been lovingly connected. These are short bursts during which I feel no anger and hurt. Indeed, during these times, I feel headily connected to him, as one would in the blush of early love.

But as soon as these periods appear, they disappear. Then Im thrown back into the middle of the nightmare again.

I was out of town last week and our phone and text communications were warm...but the closer I got to home on my drive back, the more my heart sank. By the time I walked through the door, I was ready to call a divorce lawyer.

Can trust be rebuilt when the WS was, apparently, never trustworthy?

Poster Susan said something in another thread about not knowing what forgiveness is. Im with her on that. Im not even sure its a real possibility.

I fear Im becoming bitter. (I cant find a search facility on the site but would like to know more about the plain of something or other.)

Many thanks to you, my friends.

An edit: Susan wasn't saying that forgiveness isn't possible. She just said she didn't know what it was.

If I read the times correctly you had d-day in May. I think a few months in is where the anger starts. For the first 2 or 3 months all I wanted to do was save my marriage. The anger started at about 3 months for me. It is getting better for me now at 8 months. I had told myself I would decide at 1 year. I now think I will not be ready to commit either way by then. Things are getting better. My outbursts are less often. I think they are still necessary as I process the anger. I also expected to just tell myself to heal. I doesn't work for me. It takes time. Lots of time. We just had a great vacation without the kids but the issues are still here when you return. Are things better. IMMENSELY. I can tell you 8 months is much better than 2 months. I think for a while healing means just staying together. I assume you also feel the tension between each other. It goes away for me more and more. I think the anger is greatly reduced now. My problem now is I feel failure. I am starting to feel some forgiveness. I am not ready to say the word forgive but I feel our marriage will survive. I think I am looking for more remorse on her part. I don't know if it would have helped me before but now I need it. Expect a long road ahead with different phases. I know from other posts marriages can survive. I hope mine is one of them. Yours as well.


Good Luck


Bill

Thank you, Bill, for your kind response. Like you, my angry outbursts are diminishing somewhat with time; and also like you, I'd like to see more remorse. Too often I feel that I'm the one who's been left pulling the reconciliation cart. I want my H to make grand (heck, even small) gestures of love, but when he's not throwing his own pity parties, he seems to just want everything to go back to "normal" with as little discussion as possible. This causes me to withdraw...to the point where we can go for days without much communication. A slippery slope, I worry.

I've read so many of the threads on here and while I have felt every emotion that others have expressed, I'm also aware that if there's such a thing as an affair-jackpot, I hit it. I'm certain that my H's A was an EA and was short lived. While this doesn't diminish the betrayal, I don't have the mental movie reels that must be absolute killers.

I think I'm approaching the plain.

Hi Mikka

"Search" is just at the top of the index page of each board.

The "Plain of lethal flatness" is that point where you just don't care anymore. Where no matter how remorseful your WS is, how convinced you are that he/she wants to reconcile, how much you believe that you should make an effort, you just can't. You feel totally down, like you are trying to walk through honey just to get the daily tasks done. Work, family, friends, all become a duty rather than a pleasure. You don't even feel angry any more, you just feel nothing. As write this, it sounds pretty much like my H's description of the depression he felt before and during the A. And I suppose that is what it is, a depression brought on by the betrayal.

The good news is that you will get through it. It may take days, weeks, but in time (that word again) you will emerge from the plain either to a green valley, or to a rocky cliff. You may then decide to go or stay; if you stay you will probably enter the plain again at some point. And so on.

I have been there many times on this reconciliation roller coaster. Each time I emerge stronger, a bit more independent, a tad more resolute. Each time I am closer to leaving and yet I want to stay. And each time my H senses where I am, holds me and tries to help me, fears that I will go and realises more and more that he wants me to stay.

Good luck

Liz