I started a new topic, cause I didn't want to distract from Joe's thread "tired"...MM's response to Joe touched me as well...I feel like I am a clueless BS as well..My WH also threw him self into replacing our siding that first year after his A was discovered by me, and I felt like I was on the periphery of his life...Since then, any gesture he makes to me, for marriage repair, is something similar, he does not care to give me his computer passwords or to do something hard for me that I request from him, to show that he will do what it takes " what I want him to do" to "win back my heart".... Instead he cooks when he is at home( H who has had a on and off unemployment problem throughout the last half of our marriage, hasn't been employed for the last year, the last 6 to 8 months voluntarily unemployed), and he feels that because he cooks, and does some laundry, while I work 12 hours a day, that that is it and all, and enough to mend a broken heart, and that I am crazy to still be angry, and not be able to move forward and forgive him....
Lisa

Lisa,
I wonder sometimes if the WS's are trying to apologize in their own way, but just don't get it enough to realize that this way really isn't helping much. We can bring that to their attention, but sometimes I worry about the risk of my wife then acting as if I'm totally unappreciative of anything she does and acting all indignant about it. I guess we have the responsibility of communicating what is hitting the mark and what is not as far as healing is concerned. I wonder what would happen if you told your husband that you are demanding the password and need that to be able to trust him. What would he say? And that you really cannot trust him without it, and need to rebuild that trust to have a decent marriage and heal from the betrayal. It's very frustrating when your spouse has done this to you. You'd think they would instinctively get it and want to do everything in the world to make it up to you and to show how sorry they are. But maybe they really aren't sorry? It seems hard to imagine not getting it at some very basic level. I guess the mind works in mysterious ways. I hope your situation improves. It sucks. Joe

The problem is that he is making healing GESTURES--NOT doing the hard work that he needs to do.

If you needed a heart valve replaced and woke up from surgery to find out that you had had your appendix removed, wouldn't you be shocked and angry? And even more upset if you confronted the doctor who then told you that you should be grateful that he removed your appendix--even though you had told him that you needed a new heart valve and trusted him to replace your old one. That's kind of what is going on with your H. If you have told him what you need him to do in order for you and your marriage to heal, and he refuses, then he is sending you the message that you and your marriage aren't worth his doing the work and that he knows better than you do what you need (as if!).

It's no wonder you are hurt, sad, and feeling hopeless.

I'm very sorry your H refuses to do the work you need him to do.

Huge fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

Thank you Joe and FF for your responses... It has been 3 years since Dday,..I have demanded the passwords to H's laptop, but he has been so resistant to doing this one thing for me for so long, that I lost all respect for him, I just don't care anymore..H fits all of the criteria for porno/ internet addiction, but when this was brought up to him by me( and the marriage counselor we had at one time) that he could benefit from reading about porno addiction, and looking into it, he denied that he had such a problem, and that he did/ does this internet behavior because of " not getting enough from me".. Now that I have asked him for separation, he is resistant with that.. H had an ankle fusion this past early december( 08), and he claims that this post op ankle discomfort is keeping him from having the stamina to do work of any kind to support himself and or help me with the bills..I think I may be the one to have to move out, for us to separate, cause I don't know if I can wait for him to get off his butt.. I will sorely need advice on not losing my share of the house/ property if I'm the one to move out..Arrgh..

I think this is one of those situations were a person doesn't want to do the thing, but they want to or know that the need to do something so they do something else instead. It seems like an avoidance thing.

I used to work with this guy who, whenever you'd ask a question he didn't want to answer, he'd pause and then start talking about something totally different, almost as if you'd never asked the question in the first place. In some ways my wife acted likt this after D-day. I'd ask her a hard question, and she'd start talking, usually seeming to try to answer the question, but usually ending up never actually addressing the question.



I think this is your husband saying that he want's reconcilation, but he doesn't want to do the "hard thing" he's been asked to do, so he's doing something else that he expects to fill the void, if not for you, then for him.

TomJ

In our case, my H wanted to fix the problem he created and it seemed important to him to do it his way. Having someone else, a therapist jump in and be the hero and fixing the problem was not acceptable. When he already knew there were some things he had to do he didn't need the therapist to get credit for suggesting it. Yes, he did get back into being a part of the family and the household. I think that putting up siding is also part of his healing and reconnecting with the family and the reality. It's keeping the hands and mind busy with right here and right now instead of on the fantasy. It's healthy behavior. And, yes, it is easier than facing the music on other issues like porn addiction.

Right off the bat, my husband set some rules for healing. One being that he'd have to have his privacy back if not immediately, someday. Since I knew that he could get a phone card, call from work, text and delete, and his schedule, get an e-mail and use it from work and since his work location allow for him to have an affair pretty much whenever he wants, I haven't really pushed certain issues with regards to privacy. What's the point, either I trust him or I don't. Having said that, I do need to broach the subject of getting passwords, copies of phone bills, etc. If for no other reason than to let him prove himself. It really shouldn't be a big deal since there is nothing to hide. But, he has a spending issue. So while I am asking to see bills to verify that there aren't any hotel transactions, he's worried I'll start naggin about this line item and that.


I don't know how to approach him but I do know I have to make him feel safe, do it in a non-threatening manner, be non-judgemental, make it a part of my healing. The more I make it about helping me heal and less about the money issue the more I will be able to get what I need with regards to the affair. The need to spend money brings him that same juicy juice adrenaline rush that porn may be bringing for your husband. So for me it is still that first step to needing, wanting excitement. It is also very demanding and distracting to our relationship as it is only done after lots of internet research. The damage is immense to our financial well being and future. It is emotionally damaging as well because he puts his immediate need to make a purchase ahead of any sense of responsibility for ensuring my/our financial security in the future. My needs come second.

Here's the deal. He's not giving you the password for one of several reasons. He just wants his privacy. Well, if he wants to save his marriage then he'll put the marriage before his privacy. If he's not handing it over with threat of separation, its just got to be something more than that he is a perfect angel and has nothing to hide but just wants his little corner of privacy. He's hiding porn and he just can't give it up. He needs that excitement he can't imagine living his life without it and he doesn't need you looking down on him for having that one little sin. If porn is a deal breaker, then you have set your boundaries. If its not, then tell him its not. You'd like him to make sure he still has time to get things done around the house and get a job that doesn't require him to use his ankle, even if he's only making $10 an hour he needs to find work until his ankle heals. But what you are really looking to do is check his e-mail, phone bills and credit card expenses and make sure he's not on dating sites. You won't check incessantly and you'll let him know after you did it so he understands that its not an obessission of yours and that he gets kudos when all is going well, that it is a reward system not a punishment system.

I'm sorry you've gotten to the point where you need to get separated after 3 years! I'm at two years and I know there are still things we need to address. It is so hard for both of us to think that we are still talking about this. I really don't know how to deal with the money thing but I guess I'll go talk to him about those passwords now. Thanks for posting this issue. I probably got way more out of my response than you did. It definitely put a light on an issue we need to address. Thanks.

"He's hiding porn and he can't give it up."

Umm. Hope, I'm pretty sure you meant he WON'T give it up.

We can't give up air, or water, or food, or shelter.

We CAN give up frivolous material items, OP, and porn. Some people just choose not to.

I think people keep secrets from their spouses because they KNOW they are doing wrong but don't want to stop doing what they are doing.

I am greatly offended by porn not because I am a prude but because it seems all too often to be the catalyst for people going further and further down a wrong street. My H was heavily into porn (unknown to me) and that is how he met OW. I suspect that a number of WS met their OP because of their involvement, either directly or indirectly, with porn.

Porn seems to put up wall between men and women and encourage men to believe women exists to serve them. Certainly, I understand that some couples look at porn together as a kind of foreplay, and that is their right and choice to do so, and they may feel that this behavior is not harmful to their relationship. And for many, it may not be.

But it seems that too many cheating husbands especially spent too much time looking at porn and not enough time being involved with their wives and marriages.

Sorry for the t/j. To get back to the subject, I believe that when a spouse is truly remorseful, s/he WANTS the BS to have free access because s/he no longer has anything to hide and WANTS to be transparent and rebuild trust.

Just my fairy thoughts and yes, I certainly understand how putting up siding seems to be easier to do than face own's personal demons and behaviors.

ff

You guys are so helpful to me.. Your feedback on my situation helps me to clear my head a little.. I told my H, that separation would not necessarily mean divorce, but that it might give me the room/ space to clear my head on whether I still love him and want the marriage, or if I am more at peace living on my own..... For now, I have complete and total loss of respect for H..Part of that is due to him not dealing with his own issues of anger management/internet porn/chronic unemployment, but yet he is focusing on my issues/ shortcomings instead, and telling me about what I need to do for him/ the marriage .... I am little at my wits end sometimes...
Lisa

FF sorry if I hit a nerve. My thoughts and judgements on porn just seemed irrelevant to making a point about her setting her boundaries and me setting mine.

Your H will not give you access to his computer because he does not want you to see what he is doing on it ~ porn.

My H is an undiagnosed sex addict. When he confessed the way in which his porn use grew more frequent and more deviant and extreme over the years AND when I caught him engaging in some very weird/extreme sexually perverse activity on the computer, he got ANGRY at ME and said he would NEVER give it up. He was NOT going to stop. He could NOT stop, despite how pathetic he felt and the self-loathing it generated. Then, when I very carefully, and with great sensitivity, approached him about possibly being a sex addict...he got MAD again. This is ALL CLASSIC behaviors and reactions of SA. They dig in and refuse to admit they have a problem and refuse to get help. I was hoping he would get professional help and I was willing to be there for him in any way I could. I loved him so much and wanted a restored M with him.
But, he refuses to face his demons...so they remain alive and well.
Needless to say, our M is over, although we are still together (long story, for another post sometime!)

Your H is exhibiting such 'classic' WS behaviors. He is doing the bare minimum to appease you because he NEEDS you. You serve many purposes for him...and at the very least, you are a prop which he uses to appear 'normal' to the world...a good husband and family man.

What Joe said is true. I think you do need to verbalize exactly WHAT you NEED from him. However, my fear in this is that he may give you what you list, but it will not be genuine and from the heart, but carried out to avoid personal loss...because it is in HIS best interest to keep you 'happy.'

My WS is a VERY SMART man. He knew what he needed to do to foster true R. He is not stupid. He CHOSE to avoid doing anything personal. He wanted me, but not because he wanted a renewed emotionally/physcially intimate relationship with me. No, his heart belonged to OW, and he was so entangled and trapped in his own porn abyss, that it was not in him to give me the very personal gestures I needed to be convinced that he had returned to me.
So, he did other things...worked hard at his job and around the house. But, he did not do these things for ME at all, but for himself...so that HE could feel 'good' about HIMSELF. It was all self-soothing to HIM.

This is what I have learned about most WS in general. (This may not be true of all WS.)
They are very, very selfish. It's ALL ABOUT THEM. They do what makes THEM feel good.
They lick their own wounds, feel they are the 'victim,' and will do whatever it takes to lessen the negative fallout and consequences for themselves. They chose to stay or go based on how THEY will be effected, and the choice they make is the least negative scenario for THEM. They weight it all out, and often stay for the wrong reasons. The BS is often THRILLED that their WS stayed because it gets them believing that there is hope for R. But, over time, it becomes apparent that real R was not even desired by the WS, but that staying was just the path of least resistance and had everything to do with self-care AND nothing to do with love and care for their BS. They want to be able to go on with life as if nothing happened.
Even though this may mean, for them, staying in a M they don't really want, but, for them, it is the lesser bad choice...the easiest thing for THEM to do for THEMSELVES...is to stay.

Gosh...I am so negative. But, your 'story' is much the same as many, many other BS.
It is very sad because many of us can never quite figure out what happened...what went wrong. It escapes us. We cannot make sense out of it. But, it is what it is.
Eventually, a BS determines what the truth and reality is about their WS and M...just as you are. And, often, some 2, 4, 6 yrs after d-day, the BS finally gets it...that their WS's heart was never in it (M) because it is not what they WANT.

As Joe said, maybe it is worth a try to talk, once again, to your WS about how YOU feel and about what YOU need. But, at 3 yrs out...I am not too optimistic. I think the last 3 yrs has revealed much...and you probably already know everything you need to know.


"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin

It's OK, Hope. I was jumping up and down on my soapbox! LOL

Seriously, I believe that porn causes way more damage than anything else.

Mad, you do sound jaded, but I can understand exactly why, and if I were in your circumstances, I am positive I would echo your thoughts.

I agree with you that over time, WS reveal their true motives. My H has worked very hard to prove to himself and me that he is capable of so much better than he gave and did during the years of his A. He does not want to be that man again because of all the harm he caused. Because I believe that he hated the way he was then and has absolutely no desire to be that way again FOR HIS OWN SAKE, I believe I am safe to stay with him. Wanting to change for me wouldn't be enough. He needed to want to change for himself, which I believe is the best reason to change. Let's call it personal growth.

Porn is a deal breaker for me now. If my H starts using it again and I find out, and I WOULD based on an awareness of the behaviors he exhibited during that time, I would kick his butt out of the house so fast his head wouldn't even have time to spin. I have no patience for B*llsh*t of any kind from him anymore. He was diagnosed as having Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (NOT to be confused with OCD which is what I have) and has issues because of it, but I call him on his behaviors every single DAMN time now. Before, I let things slide, I kept quiet, I made excuses. BUT NO LONGER!!!

My H has the choice to be the man I believed I was marrying--and better--or not. But I will not waste a single moment of the rest of my life with him if he chooses to be the man he was during his A. I am now 54, I don't have any more years left to waste, and I simply will NOT tolerate being mistreated by him ever again.

I am woman. Hear me roar. And then you'd better get the hell out of my way if you know what is good for you.

I do believe my H has learned his lesson. I am sorry other WS haven't.

ff

edited for a spelling error

Like you guys,I used to think I would do anything I could to support R ...Then after the first, then second and third time I argued and demanded passwords from H, to his laptop,( or else he could go somewhere else and live),I started to lose hope for the M..I carried on with my work and life, the first year into this mess, everyone at work thought everything was alright with me, that I had a normal marriage ,nothing was amiss..After the second year of this mess almost came and went,I asked H to sleep in another room of the house, and I finally confided into my boss about what was going on with me, because she was noticing that I was calling in ill more often..My friends all know, now, that I have asked H for separation..
I feel that my H is a sex addict, or at the very least, an internet porn addict..At the risk of giving too much info, I felt that when H and I were physical, before I discovered the A, my H had no sensitivity left for me, because he was so used to M ing to porno.. It would often take an hour or more for H to feel like he got any satisfaction( having an O) from the two us us being together....This got to be very frustrating for me, because I would be criticized by him for wearing out too fast. Those times that I said no to sex, he was very hard to live with...So I knew something wasn't right , before I discovered the A..
I feel like I would rather strangle and die than try to R, or revive a sex life with H,unless he did what I needed from him for him to gain my respect back, which hasn't happened in 3 years.....He has refused and still refuses to look into Sex addict treatment/help..
So I wait for him to find somewhere to stay so I can have space to figure out what I want...
Lisa

P.S.
MM
I would like to know your story, of why your M is over but you guys are still together..

I was half asleep when I made the last post, so I didn't really finish it..I think the reason I would rather just disappear than to R at this point, is because I don't have any reason to think or feel that any of my H's gestures, such as cooking, etc are from the heart/ genuine.. Instead, as you all pointed out can sometimes happen, my H's gestures for R seem to stem from his need to put up an appearance to himself of being a good family man....He hasn't been the most empathetic man, he has led me to understand that he believes that I am a crazy woman with the problem ( anger/ mood swings ), and that hormone replacement therapy would be the answer to all or my/ our problems..I am trying to surround myself with support.. A couple of the friendships I developed in the last couple of years, are beginning to get close, are fun, and sometimes keep my mind off of this mess.. One friend is willing to take the time to get together with me and teach me photography techniques for use with digital SLR..I am feeling stronger and more anxious to be the one to move out if my H doesn't..Because H doesn't seem to want to work and move out of the house, I don't want to be the one to be taken advantage of just because I am anxious to move on and find out what I want... It all takes so much time..grrr

Lisa,

Im really sorry that everything feels so stuck for you. I am tempted to agree with others above that whilst maybe classic avoidance, it also may be a misguided way of trying: it seems to be a Man-thing, these projects/ activities (siding) - projects that can serve as his purpose, i.e. fill his need for purpose, proving his manhood, proving his love, trying to say sorry in his language, as well as displacement activity as you suggest. Maybe?

Maybe, if he has had such a history of unemployment and you are the breadwinner, maybe he feels inferior because he is not being the provider as some men think men should be. Maybe he feels truly awful about himself really, and is in denial about many, many things - and is why he is so emotionally distant (and possibly abusive) to you.

Or maybe he is, as I think you might be implying, just lazy?

With you being the only breadwinner, do you have joint finances, or are you able to save a little as running away money? Working 12 hours a day, is it that you are fully providing for his financial needs, and yet he is not providing anything for your emotional needs, not even trying to understand what they might be?

(Re passwords etc, MM has suggested a key-logger elsewhere on this forum)

If you do eventually decide that you want to separate, it doesnt seem right that you feel you have to leave YOUR home - he is the one who breached its defences. And it doesnt seem that he will be in a hurry to find anywhere else to stay for himself, hes got it very comfy at home.

Sorry to be so blunt, just trying to understand what youre saying - it sounds like today you are feeling that you dont need him for anything, but Im assuming its complicated because you have children?

Daisy



"Women are still getting concussion from hitting our heads on the glass ceiling, plus we're expected to windex it whilse we're up there". (Kathy Lette)

I have 2 boys, they are grown, 24, and 22 respectively..

Hi stuckinonespot,

Can I send you an e-mail using the one listed in your profile?
I would be happy to share any info...especially if it helps you in any way get clarity on your situation.
Or, I can post here, if you prefer.
Let me know:-)

"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin

Hi MM
Thanks for asking..It doesn't really matter to me, our posting back and forth here, might help others.... Whatever is the easiest and most comfortable way for you to share....My email that is listed is still current and would be fine if you prefer ..
Thank you so much...(((MM)))
Lisa

I keep mentioning on various posts this amazing video on U-tube. Mens brains womens brains. Or something like that. I hear this "man" thing in your descriptions. This video is short and CRAZY AMAZING. If someone ever checks it out I'd LOVE to hear the responses.
Oh, it is part of a comic seminar on relationships and let me tell you, it's serious stuff! Deb

Deb
Thanks,
I will try to find that u- tube video and listen to it..I need all of the information and advice I can get..
Lisa

Hi Lisa,

An attempt to put my story in a nutshell:

I thought we had a very good M when d-day hit. I discovered his LTA with a co-worker by accidentally spotting a handwritten strip in our shredder trash. I thought it was odd that something handwritten was shredded. I searched through the trash, pulled out and assembled (over many hours, with a lot of glue and tape!) 3 love letters to OW. They were a gift from God as they told me nearly EVERYTHING: H was in love with OW for 10 yrs, that SHE had ended it a year prior, that he was in deep despair, how he regretted wasting her "prescious life," and that he would love her forever, etc, etc, etc. The letters were 2 pages long. My H tried to tell me that they were all 'fantasy,' but I say no, what people write in private is their TRUE feelings. I was right.

I confronted, had a plan and wanted to D immediately. My H said "let's not do anything rash." My heart softened and I realized that I still loved my H very, very much and wanted a restored M with him. I (foolishly) continued to believe him to be the great man I married AND I (foolishly) continued to believe that we had a special unbreakable bond and, that we could weather anything together and come out stronger.

I tried VERY hard to R. I read every book, researched online, went to therapy (he would not ~ "therapists don't know anything.") I kept his LTA to myself (told only my best friend) and never missed a beat with my kids...kept my emotions in check. I was loving, caring, kind, respectful to my H. Never called him or OW a name. He asked me to be patient while he emotionally let go of OW...and I was. (You have to remember, the A ended a year prior to d-day, but he remained still so in love with OW) And, he NEVER ever confirmed to me that he gave up OW emotionally. I was consumed with all the typical BS fallout...shock, devistation, pain, crushed self-image, confusion, anxiety, images, mind movies, etc. I wanted and needed to talk, not only about the LTA, but also about us, me, him...how he felt...where I stood, etc. We had a handful of conversations immediately after d-day, then he was unable to talk about it...about anything. All the while, he was an excellent H in a 'dutiful' way...home repairs, worked hard at his job, re-engaged with the kids....but, never reached out to me in any personal ways to bridge the gap and restore a marriage relationship.
He had even suggested at one point early on that we be partners in co-parenting the kids. We continued to have sex. And, if I instigated any gestures of affection, he always responded and reciprocated...but he NEVER initiated. I would ask him occasionally, point blank, how he felt about me...and he always diverted his answer to the kids or he was evasive...and was never able to assure me, in any way, that he wanted ME.

All along, he was continuing his SA behaviors, which I only just learned about immed after d-day. But, somehow, I thought that if we could get our M back on track, that maybe somehow he could abandon those practices, and allow only me to meet his sexual needs. More foolishness.

Anyhow, after 1 year of trying my heart out to R, he became somewhat withdrawn. So, I asked him what was wrong. He said "I am still not happy." I was DEVISTATED. I knew right then and there that our M was over. There was simply NOTHING more I could do. I was totally spent.... giving, and giving, and giving.

I decided to stop killing myself trying...and to put the ball in his court. If he loved and wanted me and our M, HE NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING to demonstrate that to me.
Well, I waited and waited. He did NOTHING. He proceded with sweeping everything under the rug and enjoyed each day...like everything was peachy. He showed me no affection and we never had sex again. However, he continued to be very nice to me, as he always had been. We got along VERY WELL. We just had no M relationship....no emotional/physical intimacy.

I still held out hope that maybe he would turn a corner at some point and 'return' to me, but he never did. During that 2nd yr post d-day, I began seriously researching D and effects on kids...as we have 3. EVERYTHING I read said the same thing...as long as there is no tension/fighting/yelling, it is in the kids' best interest for us to stay M. Plus, I work with kids in my job and have seen such saddness/distress related to parent's divorcing. So, eventually, I made a decision to stay in the M.
This was SO HARD at the time because I still loved my H...but he did not 'belong' to me.

At about 2 yrs out, I finally decided that I needed to emotionally detach from my H and completely let go of my M because it was too painful otherwise...and he was never going to return to me. I also began to get such clarity about what was really going on during that 1st yr post d-day...my H's nice gestures were just bones he threw me to keep me in the M. He didn't want me as a W...but used me for the purposes I served. He needed to appease me by playing along. When left to his own devices, he had nothing to do with me...wanted no emotional/physical intimacy. I finally put it together as to WHY he stayed in the M:
#1.) OW was not an option as she had ended their A long ago
#2.) To save face for himself to family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc.
#3.) To get to see his kids everyday and remain an icon in their eyes
#4.) To avoid any other consequences or negative fallout from his LTA
#5.) To avoid financial loss

I, me, MadMission...am not in the above list. I am just a part of the package with the kids, house, etc. That's all.

By about 2 3/4 yrs out, I had done it...emotionally detached from my H. I stepped off that emotional rollercoaster from hell. I was no longer waiting and watching and hoping for ANYTHING from him. My expectations of him were reduced to treating me nicely and being a good dad. That's it. He and I do get along very well still. We are VERY good parents together.

This has not been an easy journey, but I am in a pretty good place now. Yes, there is bitterness and resentment. I am often troubled by my situation. But, it's NOT ABOUT ME. It's about what is best for my kids.

I began to develop a Plan B for myself...as I do not plan on staying in this situation when the kids are 'independent.' I will D...in about 2016. And, I have a vision for me, myself...MY future alone...without my H. It feels to be a mad mission of sorts...hence my 'name.' But, it is something I cling to and hope to execute when the time is 'right.'

So, that is how/why I consider my M to be over, but yet I am still in the M.
It's only temporary really.

This is NOT how I wanted things to turn out at all.
But, I have accepted that it is what it is.
I cannot force my H to feel something he does not feel.
I have accepted that and have moved on alone.
I am 4.5 yrs out now.

I hope this makes sense.







"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin

((((MM)))
Thank you for telling me your story...It is soo hard to have to be physically, and financially together, but not have the emotional benefits of being married..I wrote a poem about this kind of similar situation, and posted it on this site a couple of years ago...
I'll come back later today, my computer and I just ran out of juice..
Hugs
Lisa

Thanks Lisa!

It was VERY VERY hard during that time...which lasted a couple of YEARS...where I was realizing that my M was over and that I had, in fact, 'lost' my H. Accepting that was brutal...and then 'forcing' myself to emotionally let go of him, was even more brutal in some ways. But, NOW, I am a MUCH better place emotionally.

We are both on the same page now.
He hadn't wanted a M with me for a VERY LONG time....I just never got the memo.
So, I had some 'catching up' to do, I guess.

I gave up hoping and trying to get his feelings for me to grow... to match mine for him.
Instead, I worked to minimize my feelings for him..to match how he felt/feels for me.

I balanced it out.
We are even now.

Neither of us want each other for a marriage relationship now.
But, we are both good with staying together and 'finishing' the job we started with the kids.

I no longer have ANY desire for my H.
He killed it.
I would NEVER chose him for a H.
He is not at all WHO I thought he was.
I was fooled for a VERY LONG TIME.
But, now I know the truth and reality...and I am living in it...instead of fighting it.

It is NOT 'giving up'....but simply ACCEPTING the things I cannot change.



"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin

(((MM)))
I have lost my desire for H , he is not who I thought or expected him to be...I have the same exact feelings regarding my H....I also tried my darndest to R, doing the reading, therapy ( IC, MC), talking to H, asking him questions, etc, for that first year and a half.... Every time we talk about our M, and where it is headed, H says that he is doing his best to make things right between us, why can't I just forgive him, that he has "forgiven" me already. During these talks he still blames me and what I "failed to give him" for his having A's and his online chatting / dating behaviors. H's sex addict behaviors, along with his continuing denial that he may have this problem, is a biggie in my not having respect for him.. On my days off we get along in the house without killing each other, but it grates on my nerves that he directs most of our conversations to talk about him, usually reminders of how "crippled he still is and cannot work " I end up getting my needs met for good conversation/ companionship that is relaxing or fun while at work/ with friends / my sister or my two doggies..I end up wanting to leave the house to do something to put me in a happier mood, or at least to be productive that day..I still feel like I need to tell him where I'm going when I leave the house, and feel guilt that I would rather go somewhere without him..He is almost always home so I am almost always in the situation of excusing myself from the house... ..To this day H does not care to gain any further insight into his behavior, he still prefers to blame me for most things that went wrong in our marriage, saying that it all boiled down to me not giving him enough physically..So in my mind I feel divorced from him, even though physically we are together in the same house.. I don't see/ date anybody else, and I won't, until we are legally divorced..
Be back in a little bit..gotta run, do some errands
Lisa

I hear ya, Lisa!

Your H said that he is doing his best to make things right between you.
WHAT exactly is he doing?

If he is blaming YOU for HIS choice to have an A...well, there is no hope of R with that mindset. You already know this because you are living it.

I hope you know 100% that it is NOT your fault that he had an A.
I don't care how long his 'Lisa List of Faults' is.
There is NO excuse. None.
He only has HIMSELF to blame....his shallow, selfish, immature self.

Of course you lost your desire for your H.
HE killed it...by his lack of remorse and his inability to OWN his wrong-doings.

I am glad there are other things in your life from which you derive joy.
It is very sad that it could not be from your marriage relationship.

What are you going to do?
Do you have kids?

"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin

MM
I do have kids both in their early 20's.. They both have lived on their own, but for now, they live with us, until they get on their feet..I already told H that I feel that we need to separate, and to make arrangements to stay somewhere else..He told me that somewhere in the second week of October that he plans to go to Tennessee to help his mom out, and stay with her for a little while, but that he couldn't stay there for more than 2 or 3 weeks..I suggested that looking for those jobs out of town that provide rooming for their employees might solve his problem of where to stay..H doesn't seem to be in too much of a hurry to find another place to live, even knowing this move would be for for my sake..I told H if there was ever to be any hope of R, it would come ONLY after we lived apart for some time..H expresses fear that separation will will lead to nothing but sure divorce..I told him that not respecting my feelings, including the need for physical separation/space will surely lead to divorce..I feel like I can't live this way much longer..I have a couple of friendships that are more healthy, as these people seem to be more interested in me for myself and my company, not for what I can do or provide for them .. I would like to start spending much more time with these people, including my sister, without always having to answer for how I spend my time / whereabouts beyond letting somebody know what I'm doing for safety's sake..I would like to get to see/ know myself better... get to know my own strengths and weaknesses.. not have somebody else always telling me what they are....Although I don't/didn't mind helping H and the boys, I don't want to be taken advantage of/ for granted...I resent being the universal provider for a grown man, H, who I feel isn't too handicapped to take a light job somewhere, he needs to be able to support himself..It sucks, because I may have to get legal help, even for a separation to happen.
Lisa.

Lisa, I really admire you for hanging in there as long as you have.
Staying together means tons of benefits for your H...but, I am NOT seeing any for you.

His disability has added a challenging twist to your situation.
It sounds like he COULD get a job if he really WANTED one, but that maybe he is 'using' his disability...to remain dependent...on YOU.
Thus, trapping you in the M.


Why can't he stay with his mom for longer than 2 - 3 weeks? They could have a symbiotic relationship where they each benefit from each other...she providing the 'home'.... and him helping her out in a variety of needed ways. They BOTH benefit. I know I don't know that whole situation and maybe that is totally unrealistic...but, I am not seeing your CURRENT situation as being realistic either.

I am so sorry you are in such a bind.

Your H does not sound like he 'gets it' at all...just how bad & damaging his A was, and his ongoing treatment of you sounds unacceptable...especially on the heels of his infidelity.

You are on the right path by surrounding yourself with people who 'build you up,' who genuinely care about you, and who have your best interest at heart.
All the other people in your life...cut them loose. Let them go.
Unfortunately, your H falls into this 2nd category.
But, that is NOT YOUR fault.
That is HIS doing.

Gotta run.
Keep me posted.

((((Lisa))))

"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin