Thanks a lot for your comments JJ, MM, and Lisa,
I continue to mull over what you have to say. Things are up and down. I know my wife can sense when I pull away because she comes closer to me. I'm still bothered by things that I find. I have this compulsion to find out information, which I guess is partly because she won't tell me anything at this point. I had looked at our amazon.com account yesterday. I had seen that 1 year ago my wife had bought 2 copies of a movie. The movie involves the same sport that she took a class in last year. It was in that class that she met the OP. She had liked this movie since childhood. Of course she must have given him a copy of the movie. I knew that she had bought the movie a year ago, but didn't know that she bought 2 copies of it--one for her and one for him. She has downplayed the significance of the movie, but of course it IS significant if she gave him a copy. And we have the movie sitting right in our living room on the shelf. It had bothered me in the past to see the movie (because of their class together) and now it really bothers me that she (I assume) bought and gave him a copy last yr. She told me she gave him another movie in the past and a Christmas ornament, but never told me about this. It's upsetting. I would think that she would have gotten rid of the movie if she wanted to move on from the affair and not keep it out in plain sight. Then I see that she still has saved 2 cell phone calls on her call history of what are listed as restricted numbers from last Dec. and Jan. One call is 80 minutes and the other one is short. I assume that those calls are from him since there are no other restricted calls. It seems like she wants to keep some of these reminders around when I know that it is not healthy if she wants to move on. She should have as few reminders as possible. It all adversely affects my ability to trust her. Joe
You say: It seems like she wants to keep some of these reminders around when I know that it is not healthy if she wants to move on. She should have as few reminders as possible. It all adversely affects my ability to trust her.
You are so right. When my H finally DID emerge from the "fog" he was mortified - FOR ME that there would be any triggers around to upset me. It was HIS CHOICE to clear as many out as possible - and for us - this eventually meant relocating.
I think your key words are: if she wants to move on.
You need to remove the "ifs" in your life to start healing and progressing. You need to know where you stand.
Your thinking is not skewed, there are a lot of "ifs:"
If she is still involved emotionally in the A,
If she is still physically in the A,
If she has not emerged from the fog and become accountable for her past behaviors.
If she really wants the M, and you to heal and can be honest in answering your questions.
For my H and me, everything changed when my H accepted his accountability and realized the damage he had inflicted on me and our familiy.
Thanks for your thoughts, JJ! Always helpful. I guess the question is "if" and when. I just don't see much progress as far as my wife coming out of the "fog." She still seems to be hanging on to remnants of the affair. It doesn't help that this guy lives in the neighborhood and I find myself looking at cars while driving in our area and wondering if it is him. I sometimes wonder if I am focusing on the bad stuff, but I do try to look at what she has done positively since supposedly ending the affair in Apr. I just have doubts about that when questions won't be answered, etc. And when questions won't be answered, it leads me to wonder if there is another layer or layers to this whole thing that she is afraid I will find totally intolerable and will then divorce. Maybe I should see that as positive, that maybe she wants to stay in the marriage. But still I need to have all of the facts to decide on the marriage. And there is the patience factor of how long do you wait for her to come out of the fog. Of course that is an individual decision. It helps when there is progress and there really hasn't been much of that. I think when there is progress that it gives you more incentive to hang in there. Things feel like they have slowly gone downhill since Apr, rather than getting better like it seems that they should have. And all through this since last Oct. it seems that my wife has an amazing ability to give me just enough to keep me hanging in there (usually by throwing "bones" though). I feel like I'm spinning my wheels sometimes and just rambling. One day at a time. Thanks. Joe
You might want to higher a private detective to get the answers you seek. Just a thought. It is what I would have done, even though I would not have had the money for such a thing, the need would have out weighed the financial struggles.
You brought up a very good point.
You have primarily been focused on getting your questions answered, which your W is failing miserably at...by her refusal to provide additional A details.
OK...let's put that aside for a moment.
Now, look STRICTLY at what she HAS done over the last 5 months to foster R.
What words and actions are pulling you in from the curb...are assuring you...are affirming you??
What is she saying and doing in personal, intimate ways to demonstrate a renewed love & desire for you AND a renewed committment and loyalty to you??
Do you see and feel her consistantly trying to reconnect with you?
Can you generate a list of positives...of HER contributions...of HER efforts??
Try to forget about the details you have been requesting, and take a look at some other parts to R.
How is that looking?
"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin
MM,
Thanks as always for your thoughts. There hasn't been a lot as far as the good stuff in fostering reconciliation. Especially when compared to the negative things. I hope I'm not being too cynical in looking at that.
Then there continue to be things that tell me that my wife is still somewhat clueless. Last night I was looking at the computer and I saw a window on the bottom of the screen and proceeded to open it. It was a word document that contained chatting between my wife and a guy from her high school who was about 2 yrs older (they had not dated in the past). He asks her how things are going. She proceeds to tell him how her life sucks and that her marriage is hanging by a thread. She told him how we've grown apart and she had asked for a separation a year ago and things have proceeded to go downhill. No mention of her affair of course. Not that I expected her to mention it. She goes on to say that I am a "buzz kill." Said she is not feeling much passion for life when she is with me, but is ok when with the kids. Said she is not sure what to do because she will not have as much time with the kids if we divorce and she will be devoid of passion if she stays with me (not her exact words). He tells her about how she had had such a zest for life in high school and gives her a few compliments. He had alluded to something earlier in his chatting about how he and his wife weren't together any longer and he was raising his daughter on his own.
I told my wife that I had seen this and she apologized. I told that I hoped that our kids hadn't seen it. I mentioned that when you tell a person of the opposite sex about your marital problems that you are opening the door for a affair. She said she had no interest in dating him and that she is fairly sure that he lives out of state. I still didn't feel comfortable with the whole thing and wouldn't want her chatting on-line with another guy who may have some interest in her, even if it is in another state, and discussing our marital problems with him. I mentioned how he had complimented her and she said that she needs to talk to someone and needs compliments. 2 of her female friends, her brother, and her counselor know about the affair. She had also told an old boyfriend from college about it last fall. This boyfriend happened to be in town in about June of this year and asked if she would meet with him. She asked me if it was ok. I didn't want her to, but knew that she'd accuse me of being controlling if I told her that and said it was fine. However I knew that I'd resent if she did see him. She saw him with our son along. It bothered me then that she would even ask to do such a thing. Anyway, she still just doesn't seem to get it. Joe
Joe, This is so tough. I am still wanting every detail and am beginning to realize I'll never get them. But my H IS trying in his own way. Not as proactive as I'd like but at least accepting me more and more when I "fall apart" (like last night).
I don't feel qualified to give advice as I feel I have made every possible mistake and feel like I've caused damage when it wasn't necessary.
But I do have a suggestion in terms of books.
When you read her chat w/high school guy she talked about not feeling enough toward you or something.
Well,we have all been fed what I think is a crazy idea of what married love is supposed to feel like. It was confusing for me when after years of marriage, for whatever reasons, menopause, mid life crisis (which of course can engender a lot), etc...where was I? Oh yeah, I felt empty and maybe angry sometimes toward my H. VERY confusing. Was this normal? Or was I "not in love anymore"?
The book "Passionate marriage" can't remember author's name. He talks about differentiation. Being whole w/in a committed relationship. I just would open it up and find myself and H everywhere in it. Author is sex therapist but really sees passionate sex as being an extension of an emotional connection that is not possible w/out there being two whole people there. Who allow each other to grow. Goes on to talk about issues in many different couples lives that dis-able them in terms of true intimacy. A lot of it goes back to earlier relationships and childhood.
I guess we all have to become relationship experts after this. Agreed?
What your W does not want to admit...is that SHE killed the passion in her life...herself.
She has created a situation for herself where, everytime she looks at you, she is reminded of her own ugliness. I guess you are a 'buzz kill' because of what you accurately reflect back at her...an image of herself which she has difficulty owning and cannot face.
She hides behind her fabricated belief that her M, and married life, are misery...thus, the NEED for her A.
She is still in that mindset...clinging to it....the one where she feels her M made her do it....have an A.
That her A was/is justified.
The moment she admits that there is really NOTHING 'wrong' with you, and that you have done NOTHING to deserve her betrayal...will be the moment she painfully falls apart.
She cannot go there.
It's much easier, and very self-protecting, to continue believing that life is miserable with you...that somehow this is all YOUR fault.
It is easier for her to make YOU the 'bad guy,' than for her to admit or own that she is the one who, in fact, RUINED the M...ruined her own life... by infidelity...by HER choice.
She was iliciting emotional support from that guy, and will likely tell her 'sad story' to anyone who will listen. She needs people on 'her side'...cause that is how she sees it. There's 'your side' and 'her side.' And, she is staying true to her A mindset. She NEEDS to...because she cannot face the reality of WHO she is and what she has done.
"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin
Thanks a lot, Deb and MM! I know what you mean Deb about the romanticized view of marriage that we see in the movies and on TV. And I think you're right MM on about my wife needing to get other people on her side. I guess we all have our story.
This weekend was just plain bad. I had looked in my wife's purse on Fri. night, which I hate to do, but I just don't trust her. And there is a reason for that distrust. And in her wallet was a series of post-it notes from the other man. It turns out that they had been written about 4 months or so ago and my wife has had them in her purse ever since! She had allegedly ended contact in Apr and finally returned his gifts allegedly 3 wks later. She said these post-it notes were a response to that a few days after she returned the gifts. He had left them on our car window in the driveway while I was at work. They were basically love notes and about how he would keep the gifts "safe" at his house and they would mean even more the second time when he gave them to her, how he loved so much (Ugh!), how she was perfect for him, how she would be the real and true (her name) with him, how he missed her so much, etc, etc. I was furious. I confronted my wife with these notes. She had denied any further contact in the past. She said she and her therapist had decided not to tell me about the notes because of my reaction and that it would do more harm than good. However keeping them in the purse has erased any trust at all. She said she hadn't looked at them in a long time and had nearly forgotten they were there. I doubt that. She probably looked at them longingly all of the time. I just can't trust her. And they were in her purse where she could look at them any time. I took them outside and ripped them up. And I threw away her movie too that she had bought a copy of for him on the same day. The movie that related to the class that they took together. She had protested and said the movie was one she had liked since her childhood. I told her it has been tainted because she bought herself and him and copy the same day. Wake up! Then she got all mad when I told her I had gotten rid of her movie. I don't see much of a future at all now. Just plain bad. She did semi-apologize later that night and said it was wrong of her to keep the notes and that she should have thrown them away and she could see how I had been hurt by this. It helped slightly, but not much. Just bad. Joe
My wife continues to baffle me. I had mentioned the post-it notes found in her purse from the other man--basically love notes. She gave me a letter last night and said in it that she couldn't take things like they are any longer. That she is depressed and can't concentrate, can't eat. She said that if I can't give her love, then we're basically done. She talked about a separation in the letter. We talked about this for about 2 hrs. She tried to explain the post-it notes as serving as a relationship ideal that she needed in her life and not as a reminder of the affair. Huh?! It was strange. I'll write more later. Joe
What your W wants...she cannot have. It's just not realistic.
She is very needy...in need of consistant, continuous ego stroking, affirmation, admiration, assurance, praise, etc. Any lapse in a steady flow of all this in her direction, leaves her feeling disappointed, empty, unhappy, and wanting.
OM served a wonderful purpose for her in the context of a 'fantasy' relationship...as that is the ONLY place where one can be made to feel a 'queen' 100% of the time.
Of course, you can make your W feel wanted, loved, desired, special, cherished, etc.
But, it's just not the same as the fantasy she was living with OM.
And, you and she will NEVER be able to duplicate that.
You can add excitement and dynamic to your relationship, write her love letters... which would improve it all around.
But, it still won't be good enough because your W's expectations are too high and unrealistic. She is expecting YOU to MAKE her happy.
If she expects YOU to MAKE HER feel the way OM did...well, that's not going to happen.
And, there in lies the damage to the WS. An A raises the bar TOO high, and it is then impossible for a BS to reach that height. The WS experiences something which cannot be completely duplicated in a real relationship....yet, that is what they want.
It's like going from cigarettes to heroine....then trying to go back to cigarettes again....but expecting the heroine high. It's not going to happen. There's nothing 'wrong' with the cigarettes, but they are not going to generate that high.
This ruins it for the BS.
As it is simply impossible for BS to = OM.....or for a M to = A.
"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin
Thanks a lot, MM. Very well-spoken. I'm afraid that you're right. I just feel that I cannot compete with this other guy and I guess there is no way anyone could really compete in the context of an affair. I guess actually the real him (if he and my wife have a real relationship later) won't be able to compete with the affair him, if you know what I mean. It sucks because it's just not fair. I just don't think my wife is aware of the extent of the fantasy world that she has become involved in. She has always needed a lot from me and maybe this affair gave her (temporarily) what she really needed. But it won't last. I wish she could just wake up to reality. She has put me into competition with the other man since Oct. She had told me goofy stuff that allegedly came from her therapist that during the affair it was my "time to shine." That's insanity. You can't "shine" when you're being treated like dirt. It's just a bad bad deal all around. Joe
It does feel unfair. It feels like we BS aren't even given a chance...as it has already been decided who the 'winner' is....the OP.
There was nothing I could do to 'win' my H back. And, believe me, I tried.
Of course, he should have been the one trying to 'win' ME back. But, that is just not how things played out in the aftermath of d-day.
Statistically, the relationship success rate of affair-partners-turn-real-partners is very low....like 5 - 10% I believe. Not good.
During her A, it was your 'time to shine??' I cannot imagine her therapist really said that. If so, then her therapist needs therapy...as she is seriously messed up. The 'condition' of our M during my H's LTA was the WORST it had ever been BECAUSE, and I repeat... BECAUSE he was IN an A and investing his mind, heart, body and soul into OW...thus, starving our relationship...unbeknownst to me.
And, BTW, our M remained 'good' DURING his LTA...partly because of his amazing acting and manipulation abilities. He had me fooled. I never changed. HE did. I was a good W because I was a GOOD W...loved my H and had tunnel vision for him...the way it should be in a M. Did I "shine?" Unlikely. But, I didn't know 'shining' was a requirment that must be sustained by the BS to keep their spouse in the M. That's just rediculous. Sorry, but if 'shining' is a requirement...then M is not for me.
"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin
Thanks a lot for your response, MM! It is a crazy situation where they set the bar so high that you can never jump over it, but they don't seem to understand that. I'm sorry you had to go through so much. It sounds like you've tried really really hard. I know the feeling. Yet my wife thinks she's the one who is trying and says I haven't done really anything in the past 5 months or so. It's weird. 2 nights ago when she gave me the letter it was like she wanted to separate. She told me in the letter how she couldn't take it any more and felt there was no other option than to separate. Said she was breaking down mentally and physically and her therapist was worried about her. That she couldn't concentrate. She said she needed for me to show her love and she needed to be loved. Said in the letter that she was ready to end it if I couldn't show her love. That the only 2 reasons she could come up with as far as me not showing her love were either that I didn't love her anymore or I was trying to punish her by not showing her love. And that the post-it notes in her purse were to remind her to never settle for less than what was written on those notes. (Not that maybe they were essentially love notes from him and reminded her of how much he loved her and good this made her feel--little sarcasm there). It's all goofy. She said she'd written the letter over the weekend when things were really bad and wondered what I thought. As if she wanted me to make the decision about a separation. She was the one who was very upset when talking about the letter and everything. I think I didn't get so upset because I am just tired of everything. We did have a decent talk and we both seemed to be listening to each other. I basically told her that things are not going to work out without discussing the affair and the details, name, etc and how hurtful everything has been and why I haven't been happier and more loving in the past 5 months. She was upset at the end of the night and I ended up consoling her. The whole thing is very draining. The crazy soap opera, drama, roller-coaster thing that this is. The whole thing has been just plain nuts. Joe
Hi Joe,
One of the problems w/this problem is.... Most of us do not have the tools to deal w/it.
My H and I made every mistake we could. Emotional and scared. But looking back I couldn't have made it w/out "expert" help. We have done no MC or IC. We have used books etc...
A turning point was when I copied the wikihow site HOW TO HELP YOUR SPOUSE REGAIN TRUST AFTER AN AFFAIR. My H read it in my presence and was moved. Subtle change after that
If you go to the open board to "conflicting opinions" on Sept. 29. Well, w-w-wonderful Daisy shared another GREAT piece to be read by the WS. It's the 13th response.
Other peoples' words have a different credence. I have written prolifically as well and have found the writing (as Kid suggests) often works better than the speaking. I give things to H in SMALL doses.
It sounds like your W is a caring person, wanting to avoid facing herself tho'. Tough thing to face.
Recognizing the bombardment we've all received through the media that glamorizes A and suggests that "everyone" does it, is an important realization as well.
I didn't have this site 'til 1 1/2 mo. ago. It's given me a place to go, to be heard, to CALM DOWN. It has sped things up amazingly. Grateful is NOT a big enough word. Thank you all, Deb
In your conversations about love, have you mention to your wife that in order to be able to show real and true love to someone that their has to be trust? You could tell her that you still do love her but that without the rebuilding of trust, by her, you do not feel safe risking too much of your heart for her. An affair, for what ever reason the WS entered it, is one of the most unloving acts a spouse can do.
While I understand that your W is very insecure and needs lots of love, what she is looking for cannot come from you or anyone else. She needs self love first. In my marriage I worked my hind quarters off trying to make my H happy, it was a never ending battle, of which I had no hope of winning. My husband always needed more validation, which depleted me more and more as the years went by. Then when my kids were teens and the demands put upon me by a son getting into more and more trouble, I stopped trying so hard to please my husband and focused more on my son. On top of pulling my focus away from my husband I also expected him to be more helpful with the problems our son was having. Instead of being more helpful my husband began the self blame game with himself and tried to be a buddy to my son instead of a parent. Enter OW, so caring, so willing to listen to his side of things and support him in his decision to let me handle all the hard stuff. I was literally begging my husband to talk with me about our son and help me make the hard decisions, instead I was being met with more and more indifference because he had someone else, as he perceived, much more interested in his needs.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that a therapist with any credibility at all would support your W keeping those notes. I think your W is not being honest about this one and is just rationalizing the keeping of something for her own selfish desires. She keeps the affair alive by keeping the notes and she knows it.
You need to be more assertive in your needs. You are enabling your wife and keeping a destructive cycle going when you give into her selfish needs.
And so why not explore with your wife the ideal that the post-it notes represent?
Let her explain what they represent for her. If she explains for long enough, she might possibly arrive at what the post-it notes really represent, and what presumably they represent for you lying, cheating, theft, self-duplicity, adolescent attention-seeking from OM, the smoke and mirrors of fantasy and escapism, the easy charm and bauble of cliché and triteness; being all about what she is GIVEN rather than what she GIVES. What ideal does OM represent for her? What ideal does that relationship (using the word as she might) represent, when stripped of fantasy?
Shes nowhere near even peeling the first layer of the onion of self-understanding yet as shes too busy feeling sorry for herself; cant get beyond her own skin, there are too many protective layers of self-righteousness and self-justification.
Even if feeling somewhat rebarbative (me!), I'm not suggesting this be a combative session (necessarily), but rather a very deep and searching discussion on the nature of love and ideals. At this stage - an objective, rather than a subjective one.
Good luck
Daisy
"Women are still getting concussion from hitting our heads on the glass ceiling, plus we're expected to windex it whilse we're up there". (Kathy Lette)
Dear Ami and Daisy,
Thanks so much to you both. Ami, I'm sorry you went through such crap with your husband. It really sucks. To clarify, my wife said that her therapist and she both decided that it was best to not say anything about receiving the post-it notes. But when I asked my wife about whether her therapist suggested that she keep them in her purse for 4 months, she said she hadn't told her therapist that she had done that. Still it seems that her therapist could have told her that she should share the notes with me immediately after getting them and we could have torn them up together. Who really knows what her therapist actually told her? Daisy, that makes sense about exploring what the post-it notes represent for my wife, specifically what ideal they represent. We'll see where things go. Joe
#1.) Your W is expecting YOU to MAKE her happy. She is relying on external sources, OM for example, to fill the void within her. She believes that if someone can 'love' her enough, that she will be happy...satisfied...content. I don't think it even matters WHO it is. She just NEEDS it.
We both know that you cannot DEPEND on someone else to MAKE you happy. It is not anyone else's job to do so. And, it is wrong for her to place that burden on you.
This 'love' she speaks of is likely an unrealistic 'level' of 'love' that would be a challenge for anyone to consistantly provide for their spouse. She needs a ton of positive mirroring so that when she looks at you, you reflect back to her what a wonderful, special person she is. She needs tons of assurance, affirmation, admiration, acceptance, praise, etc.
Yes, all good and should be occuring in all marriages.
But, I fear that the quantity and intensity she requires to feel loved is so high, (post-it note fantasy A high) that, like I said, it is unrealistic to expect any spouse to provide it. It is too much work.
Now, add to that, the expectation that you can, a BS, even muster up this much giving... on the heels of her betraying you in the worst way possible. (has that slipped her mind?)
#2.) I think you need to explore her definition of love.
I think it would go something like this:
Love is...not asking for A details, not asking for OM's name, sweeping the A under the rug like it never happened, make me feel the way OM did in that fantasy relationship, treat me like gold, make me feel special, tell me I am beautiful, sing my praises, show me warmth and acceptance despite my betrayal, etc.
I seriously think you should discuss HER definition of love...and really listen...WHAT exactly does she want from you?
#3.) Your W is "breaking down mentally and physically" NOT because YOU are doing something wrong, but because she cannot cope with the new post-A disaster her life has become....a far cry from the bliss she was living with OM. She has experiened a 'high' with OM which she needs and is unable to duplicate in a real M. She has put herself in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation where staying M and D are both bad choices for many reasons. She has ruined her life.
It is unfortunate, because really she has not, but she just perceives it that way.
You were/are willing to R and work to repair the M with her. It is really HER choices which keep her stuck...her choices which demonstrate her unwillingness to do whatever it takes to help you and the M heal.
"I ended up consoling her"
You remind me of something here...
-The handful of conversations my H was able to have with me after d-day...always revolved around HIM and HIS feelings...and ended up with me consoling HIM.
There is a selfishness which is unfathomable...and not conducive to R.
Joe, I appologize as I am very negative.
I hope that I am helping here and not messing you up in any way.
Take everyone's thoughts and advice somewhat with a grain of salt because not ALL situations are exactly the same.
Hang in there with your W and keep trying.
You will never regret having given it your best effort to R.
"It's a mad mission, under difficult conditions. Not everybody makes it to the loving cup. It's a mad mission, but I got the ambition. It's a mad, mad Mission. Sign me up." -Patty Griffin
This message has been edited by MadMission on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM
Thanks for the condolences. Thankfully, it has been quite sometime since my life was one big mess of infidelity and I am in a better place now. I believe it is possible that your Ws therapist encouraged her to keep the secret, that was the old school way of treating infidelity details. It was based on the misguided belief that this was for the good of the BS. More enlightened, and up to date therapists know better. I would be highly tempted to recommend some current research and books for her therapist so that she could stop giving bad counsel
Still this is about boundaries and you have to decide for yourself what those boundaries are for yourself and then YOU have to up hold them. You enable your W, and until you stop doing so nothing will change. It may be that she cant change, but the only power you have is over yourself and that is where your effort should go.
BTW I used to console my husband to. I work hard not to do that when the situation does not warrant it. It is easy to fall back into bad habits and I have learned to vigilant with myself.
MM,
Thanks a lot. You make a lot of sense and what you said basically affirms what I'm thinking and helps me think I'm not nuts. You're right, I obviously cannot make her happy--that is her responsibility. Especially, post-affair, like I'm supposed to bend over backwards to make her feel special, loved, etc, etc. How about some of that in my direction?! Wake up! She's clueless, like I've said. In the "fog." Yes, her definition of love is sweeping it all under the rug and pretending that it never happened. That won't work for me, for sure.
Ami,
Thanks so much for your comments. You're right about the boundaries and needing to enforce them. The enabling part is probably right on. I'm sure I do a lot of that.
I had hoped a little that after our post-post-it note discussion that she had learned a little, but I doubt it. Once again (she has done this multiple times in past 5 months or so) she took her rings off (wedding band and engagement ring) on about Sun or Mon and hasn't worn them since. If she hopes to apologize for the post-it notes, that isn't really going to work. Sarcasm, of course. It just makes it worse. It makes me really wonder if she has any desire of reconciling or just needs for me to make the decision here. It seems like her way of trying to punish me or something. Maybe she's mad that I threw away her post-it notes and her movie related to the affair. And it left her with fewer remnants of him. She has talked about separation since July 2008 and has been very ambivalent about a firm commitment since then. I don't think her heart is in it. She appeared to be depressed on Mon and Tues of this week, but then on Wed appeared to be in an unusually good mood and was listening to music and singing. It just made me suspicious that she may have contacted him. Just a feeling, though who knows? Then I see that she is reading a book called Cutting Loose--Why Women Who End Their Marriages Do So Well. She has had this book since maybe last fall and has read parts of it before. I don't think she's motivated to work on us at all. And I have lost much motivation in the past year. I was very motivated for a while, but it has been sucked out of me, I am sad to say. Thanks so much everyone for your support! I may not write back for a short time. Joe
You're right, I obviously cannot make her happy--that is her responsibility. Especially, post-affair, like I'm supposed to bend over backwards to make her feel special, loved, etc, etc. How about some of that in my direction?! Wake up! She's clueless, like I've said. In the "fog." Yes, her definition of love is sweeping it all under the rug and pretending that it never happened. That won't work for me, for sure.