Horrible day. I had an appointment with the IC today. He also sees h. He has been seeing h. for 3 years now. I was the one who found him. H. had been to 3 counselors plus our pastor and those sessions were not fruitful. I went online and to make a long story short, I found this latest IC and he has been wonderful.
When I decided to move out of the bedroom, I also decided to see this IC on my own. We agreed it would be a trial period because he didn't know if he could counsel both of us separately. I explained to him the reason I wanted to see him was because he knows h., and he knows our story. If I were to start at a new IC, it would take at least a year to catch this new IC up on what has happened. Plus a new IC would not know h.
Meeting with the IC has gone well for me. He has a plan in place to help me deal with all of this and to help me with my own issues as well. Today, he tells me that h. isn't comfortable with both of us seeing the same IC. Which means, I will have to find a new IC and that really p*sses me off.
The IC knows that this is just h.'s way of manipulating this situation. He knows that it is just a gimmick. He also knows that the reason why h. doesn't want me to see this IC is because the IC will know the truth about him. See as long as I don't see the IC, then h. can go into him and lie. But he can't do that if we both see him and he knows that. But, we agreed that if it didn't work out for him to counsel both of us, then I would have to move on.
So now, not only to I have to deal with 38 years of emotional abuse, adultery, etc etc. Now I don't even get to see the IC that I picked out and who I know can help me.
In addition to that, I knew when I talked with my son, that I would not be able to tell my son the whole truth about his father. So I knew that this would all come back on me and that there would not be a dang thing I could do about it. And that is exactly what happened. My son acknowledges that what his father did was wrong, but it is not his opinion that his father actually cheated on me. In his words, "Dad was just doing what all men do." I couldn't tell him what all his father has done. Plus he has this image in his head that his father was this great father. To the contrary! Anything good that h. did as a father was because I made him. But again, I can't tell my son that. So, I'm screwed. I can't get the counseling I need and I have to sacrifice my relationship with my son.
But it gets worse. My son says that if the marriage breaks up, then it will be my fault. He feels that there has not been any abuse and that if the marriage was wrong, then I have to take half of the blame for it. He also feels that I should remain with h and that I just shouldn't allow h. to get to me and that if he does, then that is my fault.
And h. knew that I was going to talk to our son tonight. He knew what time he was going to call. And guess what? He leaves! Half an hour before my son is to call, h. walks out. Doesn't tell me he is leaving, obviously doesn't tell me where he is going and he is gone for 2 hours. So, once again, I'm the one left dealing with this. I'm the one who looks bad. My son even tells me that he has not heard h.'s side of the story! Well for cryin out loud, that's because his father isn't going to talk to him about this! But I can't tell my son this. The IC has offered to talk to my son, but he won't have anything to do with that.
So I am screwed. I can't see the IC who I know can help me. I have to take the blame for the break up of this marriage. I can't tell my son the truth about his father, so I get sacrificed in the process. If h. continues to abuse me, then it is my fault. H comes out smelling like a rose and I'm the bad guy. And there is not a dang thing I can do about any of this.
OK ask your C if he knows anyone that he can recommend for you .. have a meeting with both IC's.. together.. that may help you.. you are OK you have come a long way and are so much stronger.
Your son will discover what his dad is like .. as you leave the marriage.. you know the truth and your son doesn't want to see his fathers flaws.. I wish that Carol were still on here, she has a situation where she hasn't spoken to her son in almost 2 years.. your H will not smell like a rose as he won't be interacting with his children, as you will not be there to tell him what he needs to do.. so bite your tongue when you know what he needs to do.. let your H do , or NOT do what he needs to do.. they will see it is all about him..
hugs,
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
I am so sorry for the mess you are in now and the emotional burden you are feeling.
I have to get ready and leave for work soon, so this response will be short.
If you haven't done any reading on the subject of healthy boundaries, may I suggest you do so TODAY as this information will, I believe, benefit you greatly. Your son is overstepping his bounds by what he said to you. Your job is to tell him no.
The reality is that we cannot control anyone but ourselves. You do not have a right to control what your son thinks or does. May I suggest you tell him that he thinks having emotional affairs is acceptable because that is what he learned from his father. I'll bet my house if he asked his wife if it is ok for him to have EAs, she will tell him a resounding no.
You did not make your H do anything, including be involved with your children. You tried to influence him in positive ways for his and their sake out of love. It is time you stopped that behavior. What do you think will happen if you stop protecting your H? Perhaps your children will see him differently.
As you are the one who found the IC and you are the one making the honest effort to grow and deal with problems, why would you give up the IC? I understand you made a promise, but your H made a promise, too, a little thing called a marriage vow, which he has broken time and time again. If he isn't serious about IC or MC, why doesn't he stop going and you continue? I suggest you discuss this with the IC. Tell him to practice emotional triage.
Stop giving your son and your H power over you. Do what YOU need to do to heal and move forward.
I'm sorry things aren't going like you want them to and you have every right to be upset. I agree with ff, if you found the counselor first, why isn't he ethically obligated to you first? I would be discussing that with him and see what he says.
It's sort of scary how your oldest son feels in regards to your H's affair. If he feels that way, it's not good, because what would stop him from doing the same thing? He really needs to ask his wife how she would feel if he did that to her, it might wake him up and he would then see what your going through.
I understand the Father thing, it's hard to knock your H down to your children. Mine can sort of see their Dad a little better now, but they will never know all the comments he use to make when he didn't want to go to their events and how he acted while they were performing on stage or in sports. They would be so hurt, but your H will eventually show his true colors when you back off giving him advice on how to be a Father.
Take care of yourself friend, this has got to turn around soon for you, it sure isn't deserved.
The IC, Ill call him Dean, did recommend a gal to me a couple years ago. Ill call her Shirley. The 4 of us signed confidentiality agreements so that Dean and Shirley would be able to exchange information between each other and to my h. and myself as well. However, because of health reasons, I was only able to see Shirley for a few months. After I got better, at the time, I didnt feel I needed to see her anymore. That was over a year ago. When all of this began to erupt in January, I thought I could just move past it. That, of course, didnt happen. Still when I decided that I did need to see an IC I made the decision that the best IC was Dean. If it happens that I can no longer see him, then yes, the best choice would be to return to Shirley. What I like about Dean is that he actually advises. He gives me ways and he did the same with h. as to how to overcome these problems, how to work thru them, what to think, how to respond, where the root of these problems resides. Shirley never did that. With Shirley it was just talk, no real counseling, no real advising and certainly, she didnt give me the tools I needed to work my way thru to my healing.
Pat, I can see your logic with thinking that over time, my son will see his father for what he really is. However, Im not sure that will happen. My son has been putting more and more distance between us ever since he learned of the affairs. So, if h. doesnt contact him, or try to see him, unfortunately I think my son will be fine with that. Thats just how bad this situation is.
FF I do have some books on Boundaries and one specifically on setting boundaries with adult children. I just havent had the time to read them because the IC has recommended other reading for me right now.
I realize I dont have the right to control what my son thinks. My problem is that it is obvious that he doesnt think very highly of me and that hurts. I can get pass what others think of me because as you have said, I cant control what they do or what they think. But with my son, I do care. And I do know that in order to have any kind of quality relationship with him, he has to think better of me than he does. I want him to understand me.
I did talk to him about what if his wife did those things, but unfortunately I did not make any headway. Tho he agreed with some of the things I was saying, it did not change his thinking. He still feels I am partly to blame for the affairs, that if the marriage breaks up, it is all my fault, that my h. did not really commit adultery since there was no sexual intercourse and that if I continue to allow h. to hurt me, then that is my fault and not h.s.
As far as his wifes feelings about him having an EA, I dont know how she would respond and I am not sure he does either. I would not be surprised to hear that they have never discussed it. I am sure that he is presenting this to her as mom is wrong. She and I have never talked about it and I know we never will.
Now here is where I have to disagree with you. I DID make my h. get involved with the kids. I DID make him do things with them. Now, granted, in the end it was his decision. But you see therein is the problem. He allowed me to force him into doing things with the kids because then he could feel sorry for himself. Then, he could have this big old chip on his shoulder. Then he could have his pity party. And then he would have his excuse to pursue other women. So he went along, being forced, being controlled so that in the end, he was justified looking elsewhere for a more suitable mate, one who would love him, not control him.
However, you are right on target when you say I have been protecting my h. I did not realize that until the IC said that a few weeks ago. But that is exactly what I have been doing for decades. I just wanted my kids to have a great father, a great childhood and if it meant that I had to be the biotch in order to make that happen, then so be it. In my mind, I was doing it for the sake of the kids.
I dont want to give up this IC. But he and I agreed that this would be a probationary period to see if it would work with him seeing both me and h. We agreed that if it didnt work out, then I would have to move on. The other problem is, the IC has asked that I not tell h. that I know about this. H. signed a confidentiality agreement that IC could reveal anything to me about his sessions with h. But right now the IC doesnt feel it would be advantageous to let h. know I have this information. Im not sure why.
What is emotional triage?
Linda, I did tell the IC that I am very upset, infact, Im at the point of rage, that my h. has said he doesnt want IC seeing me. Im ready to spit nails I am so mad. And the IC knows this.
I agree with you completely about my son! Who knows how long it will be til he is having an affair? That scares the crap out of me. And I have told him that if he ever does that I will personally beat the crap out of him. 23 years ago, my brother-in-law cheated on his first wife, and abandoned her and their 2 babies. He got the support of his parents! Now he has cheated on his 4th wife and still his parents dont have a word to say to him about his behavior. Adultery runs in my h.s family! It makes me sick to think what is being passed on to my children.
I think it was Amy that told me about the three parts of healing. Each of you has to heal yourself and then together heal the marriage. It sounds like you are more worried about everyone but Naomi. Get yourself the counseling you need. You found a good counselor once and you can do it again if you need to. Have confidence in yourself.
For a long time your older son has seen that affairs are OK. Your husbands family supporting his brother was a bad example. Unfortunately the job of setting a good example has fallen upon you. Your actions may conflict with his upbringing and he may not like change but you can do it.
I meant you may have pushed your H to act in ways you believed would be good for your children, but you literally could not force him to do anything. I think you are correct in thinking that your H chose to do what you wanted him to do so he could get angry, pout, act the martyr, NOT because he saw that following your suggestions would help his relationship with his children. Does that make sense.
I understand you want your son to love and support you, but, sadly, he is siding with your H. Is it possible that the harder you try to get through to him, the more he digs in his heels and rejects you and your viewpoint? Perhaps the best thing to do is to step back and let go of trying to convince your son that you are the one who was wronged. Might your son have inherited NPD from his father? I am just wondering.
One thing for sure, do not settle for an IC who isn't helping.
Triage is when doctors evaluate and treat patients in order of the severity of their wounds. So emotional triage would be treating first the patient with the greatest emotional needs.
You'll be in my thoughts and prayers tonight and I'll respond better tomorrow. I just wanted you to know that I am so sorry you are in such turmoil and my heart goes out to you.
Hi Bill, FF and Linda,
Thanks for reading my post and responding.
Bill I have always had to play the role of referee, peacemaker. I have always had to be the one to step up to the plate and do whatever was necessary for any particular situation. My h. made the money, but I had to do everything else. But not by choice. I know this is going to sound like poor pitiful me and I dont mean for that at all, but after taking care of everyone else, there really wasnt a whole lot left over for me. I honestly thought that that was the way it was for a wife and a mother. If there was sacrificing to be made, then it was me who made those sacrifices. And I have continued to do that since finding out about the decades of affairs. Now that I am finally beginning to take care of myself, I am in a whole new territory. And sometimes I feel very very guilty about that. Thanks for your insight into my son and what is behind his behavior and mindsets.
FF, I agree I could not literally force my h. to do anything. I was just trying to show how he used that to make himself look good, and give him an excuse to have his affairs. And it is all coming back to bite me in the proverbial tush. Had I just allowed my h. to be the lousy father that he truly was, this would have been made evident to my kids and it would not now be coming back at me.
Youre are correct about my son. He is very stubborn. His opinions are viewed by him as facts and there is no arguing with him. He wont budge off what he believes. He is a lawyer so he is quite skilled at arguing and he does his lawyering when he talks to me. I do fear that he is NPD like my h. And he has already admitted that he flirts with women, lusts after them and if an attractive girl approaches him, he is going to talk to her. He excuses that behavior because that is the way men are, according to him.
I know full well that if the IC continues to see me, that h. will not find another IC. As I have said before, I am the one who told him to go to counseling in the first place. But, if he doesnt find a new IC, then that is his problem not mine. I am not going to force him or even encourage him to find a new IC. Im done doing things like that.
I am his mother. Has that been made apparent? It has to me. Im suppose to nurture him, protect him, grow him, put him first as a mother does. The whole nine yards. That was our relationship for decades. But no more.
Thanks for the prayers Linda. They are needed and appreciated!
I'm glad the the counselor that you are still seeing is going to try and work with you for now. You, like me, definitely need to see someone to help us. I'm ashamed to say that I haven't started looking again, but I sure need to. It sounds Dean is a very good one and believe me, I know that they are hard to find. Shirley seems like some that I've seen that didn't help me at all. I've gotten more helpful advice on HH than I've got from some of the counselors that I've seen.
I am so sad about how your son is treating you, I can feel the pain in your letter. I think when we sense disappointment from our children, it's a pain that really goes deep in our heart, even though we don't deserve it. I can't imagine that your son would be okay with his Dad not seeing him? I wonder why your H IC doesn't get him to see that he owes the truth to his son?
Have you said to your son, "You don't know the whole truth and I don't want to tell you as it would hurt you, your Dad should be the one to tell you since it involves him?" I'm not sure if you said that you had told your son that or not, but it sure seems like a way for your son to go to his Father and maybe learn some of the truth. But then, if I remember correctly, I think you said that your H would lie about the whole A and make you look bad. It's a shame that all 3 of you can't get together, throw in the counselor (which your son said he wouldn't do) and that would be a winner.
Even if, as your son is saying, their was no sexual intercourse, it wasn't an A? Most of all, why does he feel that you have any part in even a EA and why are you to blame for any of it, by your son? This is what I think Pat was referring to, he shouldn't be saying those things to you. He really doesn't know what goes on behind closed doors. So, he shouldn't be judging his Mother, who is trying to explain it to him, especially since his Father won't.
Does your son's wife know about the A, what you said was a little confusing to me? Is their a reason that you can't talk to her, or does your counselor advice against it?
I agree with what you did with your children and getting their Dad to participate in their activities. I had to do the same thing with my H, he wouldn't want to go, wait till the last minute to get there and arguing in front of the children. Once we were there, if my son was playing a solo, he would start talking so that I couldn't enjoy it, as he sure didn't want to be sitting their listening to jazz music, which he didn't like. Our son now has his CD's played all over the world, but do you think even now, that my H would ever bring up what a great and talented, songwriter and musician he is? NOPE! If their is or even when they were children, ever any discussion about children, it was always me that brought it up. So, even now, he's no different, so I get where your coming from. We both had to drag them there, screaming all the way and letting us know how bad they didn't want to go, so that we would be miserable and in the meantime we are trying to protect our children from hearing that their Father didn't really want to attend. We didn't want to see our children disappointed to know that they had a Father that didn't have any interest in them. My son knew it though, you could see it in his eyes, as I was always the one complimenting him after a performance, not his DAD. So, you really didn't control him, as you didn't physically put him in the car, did you?
Did your counselor tell you to let your children know that you were the one responsible for being the "good" parent when they were small? Just curious as to what she said.
I'm sure that your counselor knows how angry you are and rightfully so. The not getting that even an EA is wrong by your son is what is scary, that's why his wife and he should be talking about this. Babies come along, families are put through hell just like yours, if your son decides it's okay to do this some time down the road. He's seeing it already in your family and to him, he's gotten the impression, that boys will be boys. My Dad had an A, his own Mom had one also. My brother had several and had two women pregnant with his 2 first born son's at the same time, is that sick or what? He was never taught to respect women by my own Dad and I don't mean just about an A. Dad use to cut down woman at the dinner table, everyone would laugh and that's where my brother never had respect for them. Thank goodness my other brother did, but then his wife had 2 A's on him.
My H's Dad was having an A when he died at 54 and the OW showed up at the funeral, but my H had totally forgotten about that. So, if you look around, you can see the pattern in the families and it seems to stem from the Father, so you do have a right to be concerned. I wonder if your son and he might already have children, I can't remember, how he would feel if he did have an EA and his wife left him and then his children are in a broken home? Wouldn't it bother him to see the damage that could happen, maybe he would understand better if it was explained that way. We just have so much adultery in both sides of our family, it's really sad.
I don't see it in either side of my children's in-laws, so that's great. If they never find out about my H, then I see the pattern changing as I can't imagine from all that they have said about A's that they've seen on TV that they would ever have one.
Well I am all typed out, please look out for yourself, you really deserve it right now.
God Bless and an extra Hug,
LindaT
PS: I just saw what Bill & FF wrote and needed to make a short response. In regards to not suggesting or shaming our H to participate as Fathers, I still see it as a slap in the face to the children. Maybe when they were teenagers, we could have let up and they could have seen the Father they truly had, but I personally couldn't have done that to my children when they were little.
Bill, I too was raised as naomi, I did everything for the H and children and I got the leftovers, just as my Mom did. If their wasn't enough meat, she wouldn't eat any, it went to us children, but not Dad, he got his share. He's a lot like my H.
I also didn't know your son was a lawyer, no wonder it's so hard to reason with him. He gets paid to be right, but his morals with woman don't sound so good. I'm surprised his wife isn't saying anything and I don't mean to judge him, so forgive me for saying this.
So on that last note, I'm going to try and get some sleep. My prayers and peace are with you always.
Hi Linda,
My son seems perfectly content with the amount of space that is between us. We are having problems with all the in-law stuff. If it comes down to choosing to be with us, or with her family, then they spend their time with her family. Its not fair and it isnt right, but I am afraid to say anything because it may cause even more problems between us.
When I talked to my son I told him in the beginning that I was having to walk this fine line between telling him too much or not enough. I told him that I was limited in what I could say to him because I did not want anything I said to effect his relationship with his father. I did tell him over and over that there were things he didnt know about his dad. I also reminded him that the same is true for him and his wife. People just dont know what goes on behind closed doors good or bad.
My son did suggest that the entire family sits down to discuss this. And I am all for that if we can get the IC there as well. The problem is how to do this. My son lives 2 ˝ hours away. Our daughter lives out of state. She is engaged and is coming home at the end of the month for her bridal shower. I thought we could get together then. However, that may not happen because once again, there is to be a family gathering of my daughter-in-laws. So guess what! They are going there instead of coming to the bridal shower. Mind you, my daughter was in her brothers wedding last year as one of the bridesmaids.
My son did agree to call our IC today, but I dont know if he actually will or if he will be able to talk to the IC due to other appointments. Hopefully if my son does call the IC and he cant talk, then maybe they can make arrangements to talk sometime in the future.
No, my son does not believe my h. cheated on me. He does not believe there exists such a thing as an emotional affair. He does not believe that there is emotional abuse nor does he believe in a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. In his head, only the physical can exist.
My son says I am partly to blame for this because his perception of me is that I was the biotch. Which is true! I had to be the one to discipline. I had to be the one who made all the decisions. H didnt do that. He brought the paycheck home and that was it. And my son says he knows all of that, but still he believes that there were things that I did that drove my h. to do what men do!
H. did travel to see him last night. He spent about 4 hours with him but had no success in changing his mind about all of this. Truly, my son sees my h. as more a victim than me.
Yes, my daughter-in-law knows what happened. My son has never encouraged a relationship between me and my DIL. He will come to me from time to time and specifically tell me not to tell her things, not to get her involved in family matters.
I never got to thoroughly discuss with the IC as to what to tell the kids and what not to tell. It was something that we were in the process of deciding. But it all flew out the door when I got that phone call from my son.
It does scare me as to what both my sons might do when it comes to marriage. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree. There is a history of this in my h.s family from one generation to another.
My father was a good father, however he really didnt participate a whole lot in my life. My mother was very critical of me. I grew up thinking I was dumb and would never amount to anything. When I had my own children, it was very important to me to make sure that they knew they mattered and that they were special. I wanted to give them what I didnt have growing up. As for my h. his parents were distant from him as well, critical too. So again, I wanted to make sure our kids didnt have the same home life that h and I both had. For that reason, I did all I could to make sure that didnt happen.
What is disturbing is that this next generation of men and women seem to think there is nothing wrong with this behavior. When my nephews got married, a part of their bachelor parties involved strippers and their wives were fine with that! They know their husbands look at porno and that doesnt bother them either. Plus it is so acceptable nowadays to have sex just for the fun of it, no strings attached, and something done with someone who is just a friend. Instead of picking up the phone and saying lets go to a concert, its lets get together and have recreational sex! Its crazy.
I'm sorry things are not better. I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you, appreciate your note on what is going on and still praying for you. I really hope your son gets to talk to the IC and he straightens things out for you and your son. It's so sad that you've done nothing wrong, but are having to take some of the blame. It stinks, where is your sons loyalty to his Mom?
Let me be sure if I understand this correctly? This was a SA right, not just an EA? I will write more tomorrow, unless I have another difficult night with pain, then I'll finish what I wanted to say. I'm very tired, physically and emotionally and I-pads are hell for typing.
Blessings to you, stay strong and let God carry you.
Your son and his wife are a handful.. I am so sorry that you are going thru this with them..
. I would tell my child how hurt and upset you are that they are not coming to your daughters shower.. unless the family event is a wedding or funeral.. your son and DIL should be there.. the only way I would forgive them is if they told you when you gave them the date of the shower that they couldn't make it because of a family commitment that had been planned for a long time.. and just as thought your son can drive 2 1/2 hours to be there for a family Counseling Session.. let his wife do her family thing.. but your son can say family needs me for the day.. and I need to be there.. he is not being fair to you or your family.. I know that family events are important .. but at some point you have to say to your son I need you here and I expect you to be here ..
I have married children and I will say that my daughters are very considerate of their MIL's feeling and their family events.. I have a future DIL who calls me and says lets do lunch or go shopping .. we have fun together!
I am so sorry that you are going thru this..
Big hugs heading your way,
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
((((((Hugs)))))))I don't have any advice but I walk in the same shoes..I think my younger son identifies with WH..I feel that my younger son, Ben, sees WH as a victim of bitchiness in his parent's marriage..This is based on what I think WH has told him over the last 4 years....I don't feel that Ben sees any thing at all close to the truth in our situation..I have told him in the past that there is a lot that he does not know about his dad..In our case, all Ben has to do is check the internet and look up recent/past criminal history on his dad. This history is the reason I feel that I must move away from the house, ASAP, at least within this year....I know that Ben has done these checks and it doesn't matter to him..I feel that he thinks his dad is a victim instead of as a man who made his own poor choices........
Ben does not call me just to talk..
Ben does not call me just because.....
He does call WH whenever he is bored...
Stuck
This is the issue for my son. My h. claims that he did not have sexual, vaginal intercourse with any of his women. 5 years ago I told my son that his father had cheated on me. I didnt give him any of the details at that time. However a few days later, I told him about his fathers claim to not have had intercourse with those women. My son was furious with me. He said that he had just spent the worst few days of his life, all because he had believed his dad had cheated on his mom. Now he hears the truth ie, no intercourse and he is livid because in his mind, without the intercourse, there is no adultery, there is no affair. He does not condone what his father did and he admits that it was wrong, but he feels that there was no infidelity.
As for me and the IC, we absolutely believe that h. had intercourse. The IC has gone so far as to say that if you were to line up 100 people, tell them the story of h. with his women, all of them would agree that they had had intercourse. And on top of that, he took a polygraph test and flunked it big time. To this day he does the Bill Clinton on me and to this day I do not believe him.
Pat, I am in such a bad way with my son and his wife. There is just not much of a relationship with either of them and they seem to be happy with that. My DILs sister is graduating from college she is getting her masters degree and is headed back to college after that. I dont know when they made plans to go to her graduation. I dont know if they have made plane reservations, etc. I do know that by the end of February, the plans for the bridal shower were in place and she was told about them. When I told her, she said she might not be able to come because of the graduation. So that tells me that she really didnt know when the graduation was, ie, they had not made plane reservations, etc otherwise, she would have known the date of the graduation. But even then, she told me that if the shower was the same day as the graduation, she would be with her sister. I keep my mouth shut, but I dont know if I can keep that up. Im afraid that one of these days I am just going to blow! I had planned on having a talk with my son about it, but then all this happened with h. so those plans are on the back burner.
I had really hoped that me and my DIL would be great friends. I had planned on that since my son was born. I did not have a good relationship with my own mother in law. She seemed to make it her lifes ambition to let me know how much she did not consider me part of the family. For that reason, I vowed to be the best MIL I could possibly be. I have never complained about any of the people my children have dated even if I didnt like them I still welcomed them and just let the relationships run their course.
Stuck my son feels the same way about me and my h. as your son feels about you and your h. I have tried to explain to my son that there is a lot that goes on behind closed doors and that he just needs to trust that what I am telling him is the truth, but he wont accept that. He tells me that I am not the victim here. Honestly, I do not have a victim mentality. Nor do I want to be viewed as a victim. But between me and my h. I am the victim here, not him.
Stuck I am so sorry to read your story here. That is so very very unfair. My IC says that this is just my sons way of dealing with the affairs which is to deny them. My h. does the same thing deny, deny, deny. Its one of his characteristics. Maybe that is what is happening with your son as well? Do you see an IC? I hope that you are able to work thru these issues with someone and that you are not alone in this.
It hurts so bad to be treated like this from your own children. Children that you invested in, poured into, did your best for, sacrificed for, the whole nine yards. I didnt do all those things to get the Mother of the Year award. But I certainly never thought I would be treated like this and I am sure Stuck that you feel the same way.
I just want to say that you haven't done anything wrong in raising your children.. I have one daughter who absences her self from family events..her H is very controlling and doesn't like us.. but I do see my grandsons .. so I bite my tongue. since this all came to light I have talked to more people who also have issues with their one of their children..or siblings..I even sent my kids to a C and 2 heard the same thing .. one heard something totally different.. they were in the same room.. they heard what they wanted to hear.. put their own spin on what was said.. and we as parents are lost as to what to do.. there is no reasoning with them they are adults... we love them and hope that they wake up.. but we keep moving on with our lives..as parents we keep reaching out .. and hope... but have NO EXPECTATIONS so therefor we are not as disappointed. You have to lower your expectations.. which equals less hurt, heartache.
Naomi, your DIL did tell you that she was attending the graduation.. that to me would be OK.. not knowing the date in Feb is OK.. But I would have said to my Spouse.. you go to your family affair and I will go to mine.. not perfect but it works.. this is the brides day and she will have so much fun because the people she loves will be around her.
Hugs,
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
I'm so sorry, nothing seems to ever get solved, does it and in the meantime you have to live in the middle of it. It's a shame about your son and his in-laws meaning more to him than his own family. Surprisingly it happens a lot in todays world. My oldest daughter has actually put in a letter, that she thinks of her in-laws as her parents and a better example than her own parents and she doesn't know how she could have gotten through life without them. I wasn't suppose to see the letter, but her in-laws mean more to her than her parents, so I know how all of you hurt when this happens. We give them everything as parents that we can, we try and be both parents, when our spouse doesn't do his job, just so they think they are loved and supported by both parents. Then when they are grown, we are shoved on the back burner and the in-laws take our place. It stinks!
naomi, what your son is doing to you in beyond words, just like Stuck's son is doing the same thing. I will never understand it! Your son, should tell his wife that his responsibility is to you and his sister right now, in regards to the wedding shower. Along with the IC, he needs to get this story straight and know that he has a Mother who is not responsible, except that you tried to protect him for all his life, including now.
I would be at the point and it's not my place to say this, but since he is so angry that he "wasted his time worrying over the so called A" that he now feels didn't matter as it was an EA, which still blows my mind. Hand him the darn copy of the Polygraph test, since his Dad doesn't have the ba==ls to do it. He will probably, being a lawyer, however not believe it, as he will tell you they aren't permissible in court. But, he's not an idiot, he failed it so miserably that your son has to have some red flags go up. If only he would see the IC, he might be able to counsel him and see the real truth.
You know that we are both in the same situation with the polygraph test, my H failed the part that had to do with a sex question and I feel that he didn't have it because he was so nervous, nothing worked or else he was to drunk. But he will never tell me the truth, but it might come down to me finding the best one in our area, not the cheapest which I used before. I think that was a big problem and if he wants us to move forward and he has nothing to hide, for $300 to $500 the issue could be solved. I'm sorry that I had forgotten that your H claimed that they were EA's for all those years, your a smart lady and I'm sure that you don't believe it.
He's an attorney, aren't they suppose to listen to both sides and not just your H's? Maybe he can't face the fact that his dad is like he is and since he feels that an EA isn't bad, he realizes that the same thing could happen to him. His wife should see that it could happen to them and you would think that she would care?
Their is nothing worse than when you don't have your child's support when you need it the most. My heart goes out to you and to you also, Stuck. I know how you feel, as my children now feel sorry for their Dad and think that I should just move on and forget how he's treated me for so many years, even after forgiving him after the A. They have seen some of it, but only about 20%. They even blame my health on me, get out and exercise Mom, you aren't helping yourself. My H has treated me like dirt sometimes and I should have left and I did a couple of times. I should have kicked him out the door and maybe he would know what it feels like, with consequences for the A, lack of remorse and treating your wife with no respect.
I too, like both of you wanted a good relationship with my in-laws. My son-in-law is totally distant from both of us and when we get together, unless the grandchildren are there, it's so strained. He hardly speaks to us, especially me and I don't know why? It's all so fake, but I keep trying as I want to keep the family relationship with all the grandchildren and I don't want to rock the boat. But even when I have tried to bring up the strain in our relationship, my daughter says I am making to much out of it. Our conversations consist of me doing all the talking and if I ask a question of either one of them, I get one word answers. If my two daughters are talking at a table and I sit down, they don't include me in the discussion. I brought this up one time and they told me, "I should be happy that they are so close and can have sister conversations." That I shouldn't worry about them ignoring me????
So, it seems like nothing changes, does it? All we can wish for is that someday they will understand. In the meantime, we just keep going on, trying to take care of our own health the best that we can.
Hi Pat and Linda,
It amazes me that 2 of my kids support me in whatever decision I make, while the other will blame me if the marriage fails. How is that possible?
I agree with what you are saying, Pat, in regards to our children. They are adults now, able to make their own decisions and we dont have any control or even any say over that. Its just very hard when you pour and pour into a child and then this happens. My son and I were very close. I never envisioned this happening. I miss him! I in no way want to come against him and his wife. Not at all. I dont want to be the kind of MIL I had. I just want to still be a part of his and my DILs life.
I understand too what you are saying about the graduation. I just thought that since this is a very special occasion in my daughters life, that they would want to lay aside their plans to be a part of this. I realize that that may be unfair. Plus, they have not seen my daughter since their wedding a year ago. However they have been with her sister many times since then. Maybe I am wrong to think this should have taken preference over the graduation.
Linda, I am sorry that you too are going thru this. Its just so hurtful. Dont these kids realize or even care about what they are doing and who exactly it is that they are hurting?
I just wish my son would give me some kind of understanding. He may not agree with me, but I wish he would stop judging me and condemning me.
And you are right; my son approaches everything thru the eyes of a lawyer and doesnt believe the polygraph test. Nor are there any red flags for him, even tho its true, my. h failed it miserably. And it was all about sexual intercourse. I dont know how much you know about polygraph tests, but they can only cover one issue. I went in there with about 25 questions I needed answers to, but they could only cover the did you have sex with those women? The examiner spent over an hour explaining how the test works. We all came to an agreement of what sex meant in this case, it was sexual intercourse. He put my h. thru the preliminary questions to see if his lies would show up on the exam and they did. It was only then, that the test was given. He was asked several times, in different ways if he had had sex and his answer was always a resounding lie.
As for the examiner, we had the best one in the whole area. One that was recommended by the experts.
Dont misunderstand, in addition to PAs my h. also had lots and lots of EAs. Too many to count actually.
Well heres the thing about my son. He wanted to respond to what I was saying in regards to the marriage being over, but he would not let me respond to what he was saying. His objective was to just let me know his thoughts, his feelings but that he didnt want to argue. It was really unfair. I still gave him my point of view, tho he didnt receive any of it.
Honestly I dont know where my DIL is in all of this. I agree with everyone shouldnt she be seeing something here that maybe isnt right? Shouldnt she be concerned, if not, just a little bit?
Your daughter sounds like my son. When I do get to talk to him which is rare cause 1 he never picks up the phone when I call. 2 he never calls me back and 3 he never calls me. So when I do finally get ahold of him, when I ask him how he is doing, whats going on his life, I too get the one word answers. Agh!
Well I am sorry we are having to not just go thru the crud the defines adultery, but that we are also having to deal with family who treats us as if we have done something wrong. Its just so unfair.
First of all, it has been a horrible day for me and I just feel like packing my bags and leaving, but I'll get into that in another post.
I hear everyone of you on your children and how they are treating you like dirt. I told you, I get the same thing. In regards to your daughter's wedding, naomi, Pat suggested the perfect solution was suggested, your son should come to your daughters shower, period. Of course, you can't make him, but I know that it hurts you to know that your daughter's day is being tarnished by this and it hurts your feelings also. This is such a special occasion in your daughter's life and also in reference to that, you mentioned that your son got married a year ago. Did your daughter go to their reception, just curious?
We also have to remember that all of our children are different, not that it's any excuse, it's just a fact. My oldest daughter, is very cold, doesn't like hugs and doesn't like any conflict. She is so judgmental of everything I do, even to the point to let me know that when I was singing, it wasn't being done for the elderly, because I was getting as much out of performing also. I needed to do something else, like working with the mentally challenged, which I would enjoy also. But no matter what I said, she didn't understand that when I sang to them, I wasn't doing it for attention, I was doing it to sing songs that would make them happy or to give them a message of hope. She would try and come and hear me sing once a year and I know it was out of obligation. I sang for 15 years and she never talked about it, asked me how it went or ever seemed proud of me for doing it. Now, when I've mentioned doing it in the individual rooms or lead the sing-a-longs, she thinks it's great. I swear, I don't know why she thinks it's different. I was called this week, but I am so depressed right now, I don't care about even getting dressed and haven't for 3 days. She's angry with me, I can tell when she call's, because my back is out and I haven't been to the gym and I'm not going till I get the MRI report on Tuesday.
But you know what girls, why are we as Mothers being judged like we are the children? Is it their right to not even give us the benefit of the doubt, to listen to you naomi? Your son is an attorney, he should know their are two sides to every story. It's a shame you can't get him, you and your husband in the same room and hash it out. Is that a possibility? How far does he have to come to do this? Do a video conference, if that isn't possible and he can't connect with the therapist. I hate it that he is hurting you so bad, it's just not fair. I know you don't want to talk about your H, but darn it, you shouldn't be taking the full brunt of this and your H doesn't have the bal=s to tell him the truth. So, at this point, he is blaming you so what do you have to lose by telling him the whole truth? If he won't listen, mail him a letter, sometimes reading something that is written for the heart is more effective. It just makes me so darn mad that your H has treated you this way and you are having to take part of the blame. I know I probably should't say so much, I am just so sick of our children not treating us with respect and we didn't do anything to not deserve it. I would have never treated either of my parents the way my children have treated me at different points in my life, no matter what happened. I slept on floors in the hospital to be their for my Mom and Dad and took care of my Mom till the day she died.
Pat, you mentioned that your daughter stays away from family events. My oldest one, who lives 10 minutes from me, does the some thing. She purposely planned Christmas camping trips with her in-laws the day after wards so that we wouldn't all be together. She feels like we might embarrass her or something, that's the only conclusion that I can come up with. My grandson's don't enjoy doing it that way, but her husband doesn't like us and that is the only way she can keep us separated. We use to do a lot of things together with her in-laws, but for some reason it all changed.
Like you Pat, we put up with so much because of the love we have for our grandchildren. They enjoy being with us so much, some times it's so hard as my H and I have to put on a front if things aren't going well. We use to have pool parties when the 7 grandchildren were smaller, 4th. of July, got together for football games, etc. But then my H was so picky with keeping things clean that he took the fun out of them coming, as he would clean while they were here. If something was dropped, he would get bent out of shape and clean it up instantly. If one loaded the dishwasher differently than he did, he would re-do it. They all eventually stopped coming, except for Christmas eve. If I stop over my daughters home, when one of the children are home from college, my daughter hardly says two words to me, never offers me anything to drink and I even feel uncomfortable being there. She probably gets mad because I only stop when the grandchildren come home, but why would I go when she never talks to me. She actually accuse's me of talking to much when we had went on tennis trips together, can you believe that?
The other daughter got into trouble with the law, our youngest and we had to lend her $10,000 twice or she would have had to go to jail, be bailed out and then have a felony record. She did this to provide extra things for her 3 daughters and kept it from her husband. She not only did this once, but twice. The last time we swore we were not going to help her out, then our oldest daughter got on the phone and shamed us into it. My youngest daughter was driving around, suicidal, her husband promised to pay us back with in a year, if they had to live on hot dogs and beans. Well, it's been 4 yrs. and we haven't gotten but $100. We stopped asking about it, as it kept causing friction between us and it didn't do any good anyway. She then stopped answering the phone and e-mails at one point, so my H called her H at his job and she got livid. She accused us of giving him added stress and he has a bad heart. She then told us if we didn't want a relationship with her and our granddaughters, than so be it. She would pay us back when she could, but she wasn't going to put up with this mess. Can you believe it, we saved her butt twice and that's the thanks we get? We paid rent for them a few times, or the girls would have been on the streets. My one granddaughter had to do her homework under the street lights, as their electricity was turned off. She has made so many mistakes in her life, their are to many to mention. She just continues to live beyond her means and is still doing the same thing.
Her oldest daughter, the one that sang with me, had saved $1000 from all the money she had made from me paying her to sing. I didn't take the money, I always gave it to them after our jobs. When it came time for our granddaughter to want to spend some of it, my daughter lied to her and told her that she had already spent it. My granddaughter tried to understand and she's very smart and she knew that she hadn't spent what her Mom had said, but what could she do. That sick, to steal from your own child, sell jewelry that I had given her for cash to pay her bills. She's in trouble again now, works 60 hrs. a week, can't afford to quit due to the high house payments and now my youngest 8 yr. old has to have serious sinus surgery again in 2 weeks.
We want to re-do our will, but I don't even know who to put in charge of it? I don't feel that my oldest one deserves the honor of being the executor and I also know that if our youngest hasn't paid us back the $10,000, I want it deducted from the amount she will get from our estate. I know in my heart that she wouldn't handle it that way, as she wouldn't think it was fair. Our youngest isn't smart enough with money, that I would entrust her to sell our home, etc. My son lives in Brazil, so he's not an option as he doesn't want to come back to the states and doesn't believe in the court system. I also want to get it changed as I want to not give my 3 children, each 1/3 of our estate. I want it divided amongst all our grandchildren also. They deserve it more, I just don't know wether to give them all 10% or the 3 children, 15% and the grandchildren 10%. Of course we could be divorced after how today has gone, so who knows what is going to happen.
Anyway. our children will reap what they sow, as the bible says. I don't wish them harm, but none of us deserve to be treated with such a lack of support and respect.
God Bless all of you, may today be better than yesterday.
Hi Linda,
My daughter was in her brothers wedding. She was one of the bridesmaids. She and her boyfriend at the time (now her fiancé), both traveled out of state to be at the wedding. I dont think my son and his wife realize how much it would mean to my daughter and her fiancé for them to be here.
Linda, you need to get yourself to a doctor. I know all about depression. I have struggled with it all my adult life and last year was the worse. There are some very good anti-depressants. You need to see your doctor so he can start prescribing them for you.
The problem with my son, h. and I all meeting up is this h. will lie thru his teeth just in order to look good to our son. On Thursday we are to meet up with the IC together, including our pastor. I dread it. I really do. I know h. is going to do all he can to present himself as the spiritual leader of the home and this very remorseful, repentant WS. And its all a bunch of hooey!
After 5 years I dont think my son is going to change his mind about the affairs well in his mind, they werent affairs, just some bad behavior on my h.s part. H. tried talking to him on Thursday, but to no avail. He told him the same thing he told me thats just what men do.
I cant tell my son about how his father really didnt want fatherhood. I cant tell him that I forced his father to be a good dad. It would ruin his understanding of his childhood and I just wont do that.
I know this is all coming back and biting me in the tush. And it is so unbelievably unfair. I can only hope in time that my son comes to some kind of understanding and realizes I am not to blame for this.
Linda and Pat and all of those having difficulties with their children I am so very sorry that this is happening to all of us. Its hurtful and so unfair.
It looks like getting your son to your daughters event isn't going to work, unless he changes his mind. It's sad, as your daughter and her fiancé went out of their way to be at his. What goes around, comes around. Does this make your daughter mad, hurt or both?
naomi, why do you think I need to be on anti-depressants? I know that I am depressed around my H, but I'm not that way around any one else? I had to go on them before, because of him and then had to go off after a couple of years due to a bad reaction. I know their are some good ones out there and I have actually tried some about a year ago, but I got so sick on about 3 of them and then the cymbalta gave me double vision. I'm not trying to make excuses for not taking them, as I was going to bring it up to my psychiatrist on Monday. I just don't understand why I can laugh and smile with everyone but him and it makes me so angry that I have to take medication just to live with him. Just give me your reasoning, so that I can understand, please.
He started this whole mess 4 yrs. ago, because as he is now telling me, it had to do with loosing all the money in the stock market, his hormones could have been off (they are now and we don't know how long they have been) he was drinking more and our daughter owed us the $10,000 and she wasn't paying it, so he got very angry. He feels that he was depressed over all this, so if that was the case, why in the hell didn't he go and have himself checked or even talk to me? He thinks he doesn't need IC, he needs it in the worse way and with his attitude he needs to be on them also. Just asking, as I know if I left him I wouldn't need medication to be happy, but then it's such a hard step to take as you know. Do you feel that since he is getting so upset so easily, has a temper and isn't happy that he would benefit from them also? He did mention that with out situation he was actually thinking of going on them.
I understand about your H lying with your son or anyone there. You said that you were meeting with your Pastor and IC, is your son going to be there also? I can see how all this is going to be so upsetting for you and I'll be praying for you on that day.
No, it doesn't sound like your son is going to change his mind at all. It seems like he respects his Father, not sure why he won't listen or believe what he says? I didn't mean for you to tell your son or any of the children what a lousy Father he was. I would never suggest that, I couldn't do that to my own children either, it would hurt them to much. So, I'm sorry if I didn't explain it good enough.
You hang in there, God is going to take care of you and maybe He will, with the help of your Pastor this week (if your son is going to be there) get him to see how hurt you are and most of all to understand that an A is an A, even if it's only an Emotional one. We both know that it wasn't, but if that's how it has to be explained for your son to get it, so be it. He just needs to love his Mom.
Well, I'm going to try and get some sleep. I've been doing my Dad's photo's all day and it has been a heck of a job and I'm still not finished, so my back is giving me fits, but I just am not tired.
Hi Linda,
In your posting you said you didnt feel like getting dressed and infact hadnt for the past 3 days. Thats a very big sign of depression. Thats why I advised you to see a doctor. I had a bad experience with Cymbalta as well, but I know there are others out there that dont have bad side effects.
Even tho a person can appear to be the life of the party, doesnt necessarily mean that they feel the life of the party. I was very good at faking it with other people. But at the same time, I could still have fun with other people. Behind closed doors, it was something else.
I cant explain why your h. didnt get himself checked out when he was going thru depression. Im not defending him, nor excusing him, but if it is anything like stopping for directions men always say no to that. The same thing may have been going on with this he just didnt want to admit he had a problem. Sounds like my h. to denial denial denial! Problem is, denial does not make the problem go away, just makes it worse.
Obviously, it would not hurt for your h. to get checked out by a doctor and to be completely honest and transparent with him. Maybe you need to go with him, to make sure he tells the doctor everything.
It is just h. me, our pastor and the IC meeting up on Thursday. My oldest son lives 2 ˝ hours away. Plus he would never be able to take the time off. Thanks for the prayers, I will definitely need them
My youngest son has a whole lot of insight into what is going on with his brother. He thinks that these affairs are just too much for him to deal with, so he denies, just like his father.
I know not getting dressed is a sign of depression and I saw my psychiatrist today, I didn't mention that part. It wasn't our normal type of session, she seemed to be irritated with me for some reason? She keeps telling me that I need to forget what has happened and move on with my life. She doesn't feel that even if I divorced him, that I would still be obsessing and I told her that I would not and believe me, I wouldn't be. I know myself, out of sight with him and I wouldn't have the triggers or look at him and remember what my life has been like. She also told me, "It's not unusual for men to forget A's period, they have them and most of them, don't show remorse except for the very beginning and then it's on to life as usual. I was shocked to hear her say that. I mentioned about seeing this psychologist that specializes in the thing, it starts with an E and was mentioned on one of the post. It stops you from obsessing, has to do with re-training the brain in thinking and she said, that I could try it. I asked her if she felt that I had PTSD and she said, No, that I was just obsessing, wasting my life and needed to move on.
When she found out that my back has been out and have been to Urgent care with it and have had to take pain medication again, she reminded me that she didn't like to give me the medication for my panic attacks if I was going to take pain pills. I told her, "How long have you been seeing me, over 2 yrs. or more, you know me and I haven't been on medication for a while and I only take it when I absolutely have to." I'm also under a pain management doctor and have been with him for 7 yrs. or so and you have his name. Needless to say, I left her office really annoyed. She didn't feel that I needed anti-depressants, as I came out and asked her. It's interesting that you had an issue with Cymbalta also, I gave it two trial runs and had issue's with vision both times. I know their are other's and I have tried them, Zoloft, I was on twice, once for over 2 yrs., tried Paxil, Effexor, Prozac and the last 3 sure didn't agree with me. I'm not saying that I won't try them, I want to get the back straightened out first, see if I can get back into exercising and this new process to see if it will re-train the brain. I'll do anything to not take anti-depressants unless I have to.
I wouldn't ever say that I am the life of the party anymore, that was many years ago. I'm just saying that I'm happy around other people, talk, laugh and smile, but I can't do that with my own H. That's what I don't understand and I asked her about that and she told me that, it was because I was still angry with him and hadn't gotten over what he did, probably, definitely true. But I do think I wouldn't be here right now, if we hadn't regressed 4 yrs. ago. So, we both do the same thing. Are you on anti-depressants or have you been on them recently, if I'm not being to personal. You might have told me, so forgive me if I forgot.
In regards to my H, he does think he was going through depression, now that he looks back on it, but he really didn't know what was happening to himself. He would have never though of going to a therapist or even thought that it might be depression causing his anger, more drinking, lack of sexual desire, etc. I think he was blaming it all on my back and our difficulty doing somethings. The loss of 100's of thousands of dollars, which was our retirement income that had been invested in the stock market, that tanked during those 4 yrs. was money we depended on for the rest of our lives to live. I knew about the stock market loosing money, but he failed to keep me informed of just how much we were loosing and when I found out, I was really upset with him and the financial consultant that we hire. I told him, that he should have kept me better informed and I would have pulled out a long time before we lost so much. It took us 4 yrs. to almost get back what we had lost. My H loosing money will send him over the edge easily and I'm sure that was hard for him to see everything he had worked for in 36 yrs. just disappearing before his eyes. He had never experienced anything like this before and he should have shared his feelings more with me as it was happening, but he didn't.
I've suggested and told him that he needs IC in the worst way, even know he looses his temper much to easily. He sure doesn't think he needs to see one, in fact he brag's about how proud he is that he stopped drinking all by himself! He's actually cocky about it and he says that he has made all these changes to make himself a better person, wether I give him credit for it or not. I told him, he should be doing it for himself anyway, it has nothing to do with me. He told me that it did, he was trying to be better to help our marriage, of course I said, why didn't you think of this 25 yrs. ago, it's taken you this long to see what you needed to do? I probably shouldn't have said that, but he was just so darn cocky in how he was bragging about what he had done by himself. I see that as being narcisstic myself. I would happily go with my H to be checked out, if your referring to anti-depressants, but he's not going to go, unless his health gets much worse. He still has another appointment to check out his liver, I think that is next week.
Your youngest son does have a lot of insight. Sometimes the siblings will tell each other, what they won't tell their parents also. He's probably right about your oldest son, my brother is the same way. He gets so stressed talking about any family problems that he gets beet red and his blood pressure shoots up. He can't discuss anything stressful, even my Mom's death, which I have questions about and only he can answer them. I tried a few years back, he got upset and his wife got mad with me, so I'll never find out.
The meeting that you have coming up, is it just for all of you to get things ironed out, period? You probably have said, so forgive me for asking, as I've forgotten. I've been more focused on your oldest son and you and my heart goes out to you on that one. I wish I could do something to help you through it, but all I can do is Pray, which I will be doing. That's the name of a song, by the way. "All I Can Do Is Pray" by Ann Hartmann. She's out of Nashville and I use to sing all her Christian songs in the Retirement Centers. Try looking her up, her songs are all written by her and they have beautiful meaning.
Have a good night and thanks for being there for me.
God Bless,
Linda
This message has been edited by Memories23 on May 8, 2012 2:54 AM
Linda,
Is your psychologist referring to EMDR Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing? Its used to help overcome trauma or distressing, negative events in our lives. It helps deal with and overcome stress, anxiety. Its something that the IC tried with my h. but h. was not cooperative. One of my former counselors used it on me and this IC wants to do it as well. I didnt have enough sessions with the 1st IC to see if EMDR actually works.
Have you read about PTSD? Do you feel you fit the criteria? If so, I would point that out to your doctor and ask her why she disagrees? If her arguments are not legitimate then mayhaps its time to find a new doctor? From reading this Linda, Im not convinced that this doctor is doing everything she can to help you. Why not try the anti-depressants? They must just help! That doesnt make sense to me as to why she doesnt at least try them.
Im not downplaying the pain you have in your back at all. But I do know that depression causes pain. I also know of people who are in extreme pain who are also on anti-depressants, to help them with the pain.
I started on Prozac when I was 40 years old. It saved my life. I was probably on them for 7,8 years? I cant remember. After that I was on and off them. Last year I slipped into a horrific depression. Prozac didnt work, Paxil, nothing. My family dr. sent me to a psychiatrist. At one time he had me on 3 different anit-depressants. None of them worked. He wanted to do this procedure that involves some kind of wiring around the forehead, the use of magnets whatever. But my insurance wouldnt pay for it and for that I am glad cause I really didnt want to do anything that would mess with my brain that way. Eventually, since nothing was working, I went off all of it and thru tons and tons of prayers, the depression is gone. I am still an advocate of anti-depressants. I believe in Gods healing. I also believe that God heals thru doctors and medication.
From what I have read, a mans very essence is all tied up in his job, income. So I can understand why your h. felt the way he did about losing all that money. Unfortunately, husbands dont often let their spouses know what is going on financially because to do so, in their minds, would show that they had failed and that is something they do not want to experience. Having said all of that, Im not saying what they are feeling is right, Im just saying that what they are feeling is the same thing many many other spouses feel as well. He should have told you. 5 years ago when my h. confessed the affair, he also confessed to buying some very very stupid stocks and eventually we lost money. Agh!
It sounds like your h. is in denial as well. Just like my h. Deny is one of his nicknames! And it is so frustrating to live with a person who is in total denial.
When I told my pastor that the IC supports me on my decision to end the marriage, pastor said he wanted to talk to the IC. I didnt think a whole lot about that cause I thought maybe pastor was just talking off the top of his head. Then I emailed the IC to tell him about the conversation and he emailed back and said he wanted to meet up with Pastor, so thats when the arrangements were made. We are to meet up Thursday morning. I know this is going to be pastor doing everything he can to convince me and the IC that we are wrong, that this is not Gods way.
Yes, someone on our HH site recommended EMDR and we have several doctors in our area that specialize in it. Not sure if it would work on me, as they tried to hypnotize me 3 times to see if I could let go of the memories a couple years after the A. You can imagine just from knowing me a little bit that I don't let go of things very easily, so the hypnosis didn't work for me. So, I don't think it will hurt to call, not only for me, but maybe for him to help remember what he says he can't. Just a thought.
I've read about PTSD and she's never agreed with the diagnosis for me. I'm getting the feeling that since she's seen me for over a couple years that she's frustrated that I just won't let go and move on. I don't think a psychiatrist should tell their patient that they don't feel that they are a strong enough patient to live on their own. That's like a slap in the face, they should be encouraging their patient and giving them confidence and if she feels that way, give them tools to learn to function on their own. If My H died today, I could take care of myself just fine, financially, etc. I took care of our books before, did the bills, but yet she looks at me as a weakling.
I agree, I see her for 15 minutes, she gives me my Klonopin, now that I'm off of Wellbutin that I weaned myself off of after 8 yrs. and that's all she gives me. To give me a lecture about pain medication was an insult to me, as she's known me a while and I have never given her a reason to think that their is a problem.
I hear you on the anti-depressants, I've done them before, just like you and Prozac was the one they put me on when I was 41 when i got suicidal. It unfortunately put me in the emergency room as I had a weird experience to say the least. My body felt disconnected, it was an experience I sure wouldn't want to go through again. They started that one, as it was the one that was suppose to work the quickest in regards to helping the depression. Maybe in 2 weeks, instead of four. I have been every route that you have been on, from doctor to doctor, 2 and 3 different ones, different class's, etc. Nothing worked and I had a friend that went through the same thing, no one could come up with a diagnosis that was correct. Heck my own grandson, who was 13 at the time, the one that his Mom kept him from his own Dad for 9 yrs. tried to kill himself and ended up in a mental hospital twice. They diagnosed him as bipolar and had him on enough drugs to kill somebody. His Mom works in the mental field, is on anti-depressants herself and has been way before he was born and that could have been the problem. Some of this he was doing to get his Mom's attention, he figured if he made himself bad enough and she couldn't handle it anymore, she would send him to live with his Dad and that's exactly what she did. He was into cutting, anything to get to his Dad. He's been there about 15 months now, took his body about 6 months to get rid of the toxic's of the drugs and he is perfectly fine and never been happier. Of course, he lives on top of the mountain with his Dad in Rio, his step-Mom and has no stress. He's home schooled, his Dad isn't strict with him, like his Mom. He feels at peace for the first time in his life and is going to be a good kid. He's teaching himself how to play a guitar, my son has a music degree, he sits in with their jam sessions and is just happy for once in his life. He called us on Sunday wanting to do a Skype and we had an hour with him and it was so nice to see our old grandson back. So, with everything, meds that is, all he needed was a stress free life and to see his own Dad. Thank goodness my son is not one to hold grudges, as he doesn't waste time holding onto the years he lost with his son, he's enjoying the ones he's got now. It's a shame I'm not like him, not sure who he takes after, I think more like my husband. Except his life doesn't revolve around money and he's very close to his son, which his Dad was not when he was little. Didn't like his career choice of music composition and now he's got 3 CD's out and around the world. So, he's been successful in all his choices.
Wow, the wiring around your head sounds weird, that would scare me. I know that I turned to God also, when I had to go cold turkey off the Zoloft, blood gas's got dangerously high and they didn't know why, so that was why they took me off Zoloft. That was one experience I'll never forget and that's what turned me off of anti-depressants. I know they have their place, I am just trying to do it without them and if I can get back into exercising that seemed to help. I'll be seeing the back doctor tomorrow and get the new results of the MRI, as it's been 5 yrs. and the back went out while exercising at the gym. Yes, I know that stress causes pain, but I don't honestly feel that is the issue right now.
I can see why he was upset about loosing the money also, I was kept informed but not to the point of knowing the total amount, that really upset me. He wasn't in total charge of the finances, he was working with our financial advisor and between the two of them, their should have been stop's put on things, their was but the market went bad so quick, the stops couldn't keep up with them. You remember the stock market crash in 2008, that's when we lost so much of his retirement income that we are suppose to live on. He just failed keep me better informed and I let the stock broker know also, he knew I was angry when we had our meeting. Thus the drinking, anger, you name it and he was very mean during that time. I lost the money also, but I didn't let my anger get the best of me, he just has such a temper and money rules his world, not God.
Yes, we both have 2 husbands in denial. I think mine still is, but he would never admit to it.
I'm surprised at your pastor's position on divorce. The Catholic church is against it also, but not in respect to adultery. It should be a very interesting meeting and I feel that your IC will win this one. Not that it's a win situation, but you do need to find peace and I feel that God is running this show anyway.
Here is Ann Hartmann's web site. I use to sing so many of her songs, one was called "Look Up" and I sang it a lot. You'll enjoy reading about her and her songs are so inspirational. I have 2 of her CD's and she was kind enough to even sell me just the back ground music so that I could sing them along with just her music. Not many artists would ever do that.
This is a great site for anyone else who wants to hear upbeat and slow songs that speak from the heart and are written by Ann Hartmann out of Nashville.
Hi naomi,
Yes, someone on our HH site recommended EMDR and we have several doctors in our area that specialize in it. Not sure if it would work on me, as they tried to hypnotize me 3 times to see if I could let go of the memories a couple years after the A. You can imagine just from knowing me a little bit that I don't let go of things very easily, so the hypnosis didn't work for me. So, I don't think it will hurt to call, not only for me, but maybe for him to help remember what he says he can't. Just a thought.
I've read about PTSD and she's never agreed with the diagnosis for me. I'm getting the feeling that since she's seen me for over a couple years that she's frustrated that I just won't let go and move on. I don't think a psychiatrist should tell their patient that they don't feel that they are a strong enough patient to live on their own. That's like a slap in the face, they should be encouraging their patient and giving them confidence and if she feels that way, give them tools to learn to function on their own. If My H died today, I could take care of myself just fine, financially, etc. I took care of our books before, did the bills, but yet she looks at me as a weakling.
I agree, I see her for 15 minutes, she gives me my Klonopin, now that I'm off of Wellbutin that I weaned myself off of after 8 yrs. and that's all she gives me. To give me a lecture about pain medication was an insult to me, as she's known me a while and I have never given her a reason to think that their is a problem.
I hear you on the anti-depressants, I've done them before, just like you and Prozac was the one they put me on when I was 41 when i got suicidal. It unfortunately put me in the emergency room as I had a weird experience to say the least. My body felt disconnected, it was an experience I sure wouldn't want to go through again. They started that one, as it was the one that was suppose to work the quickest in regards to helping the depression. Maybe in 2 weeks, instead of four. I have been every route that you have been on, from doctor to doctor, 2 and 3 different ones, different class's, etc. Nothing worked and I had a friend that went through the same thing, no one could come up with a diagnosis that was correct. Heck my own grandson, who was 13 at the time, the one that his Mom kept him from his own Dad for 9 yrs. tried to kill himself and ended up in a mental hospital twice. They diagnosed him as bipolar and had him on enough drugs to kill somebody. His Mom works in the mental field, is on anti-depressants herself and has been way before he was born and that could have been the problem. Some of this he was doing to get his Mom's attention, he figured if he made himself bad enough and she couldn't handle it anymore, she would send him to live with his Dad and that's exactly what she did. He was into cutting, anything to get to his Dad. He's been there about 15 months now, took his body about 6 months to get rid of the toxic's of the drugs and he is perfectly fine and never been happier. Of course, he lives on top of the mountain with his Dad in Rio, his step-Mom and has no stress. He's home schooled, his Dad isn't strict with him, like his Mom. He feels at peace for the first time in his life and is going to be a good kid. He's teaching himself how to play a guitar, my son has a music degree, he sits in with their jam sessions and is just happy for once in his life. He called us on Sunday wanting to do a Skype and we had an hour with him and it was so nice to see our old grandson back. So, with everything, meds that is, all he needed was a stress free life and to see his own Dad. Thank goodness my son is not one to hold grudges, as he doesn't waste time holding onto the years he lost with his son, he's enjoying the ones he's got now. It's a shame I'm not like him, not sure who he takes after, I think more like my husband. Except his life doesn't revolve around money and he's very close to his son, which his Dad was not when he was little. Didn't like his career choice of music composition and now he's got 3 CD's out and around the world. So, he's been successful in all his choices.
Wow, the wiring around your head sounds weird, that would scare me. I know that I turned to God also, when I had to go cold turkey off the Zoloft, blood gas's got dangerously high and they didn't know why, so that was why they took me off Zoloft. That was one experience I'll never forget and that's what turned me off of anti-depressants. I know they have their place, I am just trying to do it without them and if I can get back into exercising that seemed to help. I'll be seeing the back doctor tomorrow and get the new results of the MRI, as it's been 5 yrs. and the back went out while exercising at the gym. Yes, I know that stress causes pain, but I don't honestly feel that is the issue right now.
I can see why he was upset about loosing the money also, I was kept informed but not to the point of knowing the total amount, that really upset me. He wasn't in total charge of the finances, he was working with our financial advisor and between the two of them, their should have been stop's put on things, their was but the market went bad so quick, the stops couldn't keep up with them. You remember the stock market crash in 2008, that's when we lost so much of his retirement income that we are suppose to live on. He just failed keep me better informed and I let the stock broker know also, he knew I was angry when we had our meeting. Thus the drinking, anger, you name it and he was very mean during that time. I lost the money also, but I didn't let my anger get the best of me, he just has such a temper and money rules his world, not God.
Yes, we both have 2 husbands in denial. I think mine still is, but he would never admit to it.
I'm surprised at your pastor's position on divorce. The Catholic church is against it also, but not in respect to adultery. It should be a very interesting meeting and I feel that your IC will win this one. Not that it's a win situation, but you do need to find peace and I feel that God is running this show anyway.
Here is Ann Hartmann's web site. I use to sing so many of her songs, one was called "Look Up" and I sang it a lot. You'll enjoy reading about her and her songs are so inspirational. I have 2 of her CD's and she was kind enough to even sell me just the back ground music so that I could sing them along with just her music. Not many artists would ever do that.
This is a great site for anyone else who wants to hear upbeat and slow songs that speak from the heart and are written by Ann Hartmann out of Nashville.
http://www.annhartmann.com/index.html
God Bless you, Linda
naomi,
I feel horrible about rattling on about myself with the post you wrote me. I hadn't read your post first, I'm so sorry I burdened you with my problems, you have enough to deal with. If you feel like listening to any music, please try Ann. I've actually spoke with her and what an inspiration she is to me. Hang in there and take care of yourself.
This message has been edited by Memories23 on May 8, 2012 6:10 PM
