My sanity is really on the line here. There is so much pressure on the inside of me, I feel like I am going to explode at any minute and they will have to straight jacket me.
In the 5 years since I have known about the affairs, we have told a handful of people. My sister, brother, their spouses have ignored me. When h. told his sister, for the next month, she would call him to find out how HE was doing she didnt call me!
To make a long story short, people have been supportive of h.- not what he did but trying to help him move past this, forgive himself. They have shown him all kinds of mercy, grace, compassion and forgiveness. In the aftermath of that, lies me. When things get difficult, of course, I am the one to let people know not him, never never him. Its always me. And what do I get told? People get in my face, telling me I have to move on, make the marriage work, forgive, change, forget. The never NEVER go to him and say what the blankety blank blank are you doing to her????? This is the way its been for 5 years.
2 weeks ago, I told my pastor what was happening. For an hour I listened to him beg me not to leave this marriage something that h. has never said/asked. I told him over and over what h. was doing to me. I gave him examples. Do you think he called h. and asked him why he keeps hurting me? Why he keeps ignoring me? Why he keeps abusing me? Nope. Didnt happen.
Last night I sat down with 2 women from my church, who I have gotten quite close to. The one gal knew about the affairs, the other didnt. I told them my story the marriage is over and heres why. I told them about the abuse, the continued abuse. I was selective in what I told them because they know h. and I didnt want to tell them too much. And true to what has happened for 5 years, they were in MY face. They told me that I have deceived the church (in creating this façade that the marriage is fine) and that I should go confess to what I have done. Not him, me! They asked me Can he do anything right? It sounds like you are looking for things to get mad at him about. They were concerned about his lack of sex! How are you fulfilling your wifely duties but denying him? They didnt ask about my sexual needs, just his. (sorry to be so graphic).
Not once. NOT ONCE did they say what he did was horrible. Instead I got the you need to forgive, forget and move on. I asked them how was I supposed to do that when he continues to abuse me?
Heres the thing. I was telling them about the marriage being over because I knew I was lying to them and I cared about that. I cared because I felt that if they knew the truth, they would feel betrayed. I cared about them! Where was h.? Did he care? Was he concerned about their feelings? Did he consider how they would react when they heard the news? Did he ever come to me and say, we need to tell them? The answers are all no! But I couldnt tell them that. Because I didnt want to hurt them anymore than what I had. I couldnt tell them that this awesome, caring, sensitive, giving, generous, smart, intelligent, handsome, athletic, funny, charismatic man had totally deceived them into thinking that he is all those things.
Over 2 hours, they were in my face. They told me that I shouldnt be praying with people, that I look mean when I come into church, that I have deceived people and lied to them. I finally asked them why? Why dont you get in his face and say What the blankety blank blank are you doing to her? Wheres the remorse? Wheres the conviction? Wheres the repentance?
Oh my gosh, I could go on and on to all the things they said to me. How I had to defend myself, how they took his side.
We parted and dont you know, they called him. They called to tell him they love him and are praying for him. They were in my face telling me all the things I have done, am doing wrong. But to him? Its all love.
When I got home, he didnt say a word. He didnt ask me how I felt, if it was hard, was I hurting. Not a single word out of him. And why should he? He didnt care. They are on his side. He won! He got the victory!
Finally, on Thursday I get to sit thru a 2 session of once again hearing how wrong I have been. I know that I know that I know that my pastor will not be confronting h. as to what he has done, what he continues to do.
The friendships are over. I cant go back to church. My son is against me. And on top of all of that, I cant even see the one IC who I know can help me.
So Glad you are Dropping the friendships.. they are moralistic BI**Hes.. let God deal with them.. same with your Pastor.. he is not listening to Gods word.or to you.... he is one those who gives religion.. Christianity a bad name as are the two women.. they are not dealing in Christlike behavior.
Call your C.. I know that you made a pact.. but he has helped you thus far and he may decide to keep you was a client ..and drop your H. It may be he can decide.. worth a try..
I am so sorry you are dealing with this stuff..YOUR IC knows what you have been thru and so you need to listen to him..
Is this the same man who is marring your daughter? you may have an issue down the line..sorry to bring that up..
hugs,
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
(((((((((((OH NAOMI))))))))))))
I have to agree with Pat. You need to find another fellowship of Christians who are supportive. I know it probably feels like you have been raped of the very source of your spiritual support and you have. God is God, He will not fail...God will reveal Himself to you through others. You do not have to judge that the pastor you have is or is not "of God" nor do you have to judge the actions of the women you chose to confide in. God is God and vengence is His. Run, don't walk to another body of believers.
I don't know how to email you Naomi but if you'd like to take this conversation off this board I am happy to do so if you will email me.
I can't believe what I just read. You have been to hell and back and in a church no less. I can't believe that those so called Christian ladies talked to you like that? The pastor also defending your H, none of this is right. They need to get off their high horse, who gives them the right to preach and judge you, only God has that right.
To tell you that you have a "mean look" on your face is crazy, have they looked in the mirror, what was the point of that? To knock you down some more. I am so mad right now and it didn't happen to me, but it happened to my friend, that I could spit nails.
I'm not good at scripture, I'm just a believer in God and being good to others. Isn't their something in the scripture about, "Thee who judge others will too be judged?" They are all going to have to answer to a higher being for their actions, so you don't need to worry about anything they have said. I know it hurts and you don't deserve it, Lord you don't. I don't know how much more you can take. Please listen to Ann Hartmann, she's a Christian singer, writes her lyrics based on her life and her songs will touch you, they did me when I sang them, as they touched others.
Try and do what the others suggested, get back in touch with the IC that you really want to see, he might just go with you. Get out of that church, run to another one that will be happy to have you.
Hi Pat, Jan and Linda,
Thanks for reading my very long post and for your replies as well. Its an understatement for me to say how much I appreciate all of this.
I know that my pastor and my friends feel that they are doing the very best for me. I know that they are trying to come to me with love and compassion. I know they are not trying to judge me or condemn me. In their minds, they are being supportive and not condemning or judgmental. They dont feel that they are condoning what h. did. They know what he did was wrong. But they see it all in the past tense. They dont realize that it is all still going on. They think that my attitude, words, mindsets, are part of the problem. That I need to change. I just dont think that they realize the damage their words are doing to me, their attitudes as well. I dont think they realize how hard it is to even talk about all of this. I had to keep the stiff upper lip so I wouldnt break down, so they end up thinking that I am not bothered by all of this you know, I can just breeze in and talk about all of this matter of factly.
Im not asking them to take sides. Im really not. But it seems to me that they are taking his side. How can I think any different? Its been 24 hours since I got home. Do you think that they might have called him and read him the riot act? Nope. Maybe they could have called me, sent me an email telling me how sorry they are that I hurt and am having to live thru this? Nope. Not a word.
I am going to let the IC know all of this. I just cant tell him on Thursday because I dont want my pastor to know what these women did. I do know that h. called our pastor today tho he didnt tell me this, I found out when I went thru his cell phone. So, it is very possible that pastor already knows what these women did and I am sure that if he knows, that he will contact them, not to chastise them, but to tell them that I complained and was upset. You know, in effect, tattle tail on me. And once again, I look like the biotch.
No, this isnt the same pastor that is marrying my daughter. My daughter lives 4-5 states away. And she is not coming home to get married but where she lives now.
Really my pastor is this great guy. He really is. He and I are close. I trust him. I know in his mind that he thinks he is doing what is best for me. Hes just wrong! But I dont seem to be able to convince him of that.
You know Jan, when you speak of vengeance, over and over since December, the Lord has taken me to Psalm 35 - The LORD the Avenger of His People. Seriously He has shown me that Psalm about 8 times.
Do you know that they asked me if I thought he was capable of committing suicide? They are concerned about his mental health. They arent concerned about mine. They didnt ask me if I felt suicidal. On top of that the one gal suggested that if he did commit suicide, it would be my fault!
Here is the real problem. They think he is awesome, great, wonderful. For them to admit that maybe he isnt all those things, is to admit that they were wrong. And they just dont want to do that because if they do, then they have to admit that they were stupid, that they were duped by him. And no one wants to admit or even think that they are stupid. So in order to keep themselves from having to admit that, they hold to their beliefs of his wonderfulness and I in the process get sacrificed on their alter of ego.
You welcome, your post could never be longer than mine, I probably hold the record for that one.
I hear what your saying about your pastor and friends, but I sure don't agree with what your friends did. Your pastor is probably suppose to support not getting a divorce, but it also says in the scripture, that adultery is grounds for divorce. It's the one thing that if you were Catholic is definitely not contested. No matter what, God and yourself know that He wouldn't want you living with a man that is continuing to not respect and treat you like his wife. It states in the bible, how a man is suppose to take care of his wife, not hurt her. I can't quote things correctly as I don't study the bible, but just remember a lot of it.
How your pastor and the church women can look up to a man who is so well known, as you are also, in the church, have respect for him and think it's okay to do what he did is beyond me, but it seems like they have. My sister belongs to a church that seems to hold the men in such high regard and not the woman. Is your church like this also, by any chance? He's an elder in there's, has his 5 or 6 beers a night, which they probably don't know about, but he is held in high regard. My sister on the other hand, has a drug problem and not one women has come to help her get through her problems. They seem to be more embarrassed that she has them and that her poor husband has to endure this. Does this sound familiar? Not that you have a drug problem or anything similar, just a broken and damaged heart.
I'm sure your pastor is a nice person, I don't know him, but he might be trying to protect your H and marriage, as it appears in your church that you both are the perfect couple until everything came out in the open. He might be embarrassed and trying to keep you together to keep that perfect image, just saying.
You say that you don't feel that they are condemning you, but I don't see it that way, because they aren't supporting you in your time of need. Even if they see it was in the past, it was still wrong. I guess you didn't get it across that he is still the same way? You didn't make the mistake, are you suppose to be a slave to your H for them to accept you? What did they say to understand the pain that you are in or to validate your feelings? That's what love is, they are suppose to listen and feel your pain, it wasn't like your H was there talking, you were and you were asking for their understanding and support, but instead you left feeling persecuted. That had to be a very hard thing for you to do.
I wouldn't waste my time worrying about these women thinking that you are a tattle tail, they aren't in your shoes, but someday they might and then they will know how you feel. It will be interesting to see how tomorrow goes with your pastor and IC. Maybe your IC will be able to get your pastor to see that your H is so far away from how he perceives him.
It was interesting what you said about Psalm 35. When the Lord is constantly sending you to the same sight, their is usually a reason, but I don't understand why, as that is not what you are seeking? And how are you responsible if your H committed suicide, that's crazy. It seems like and I don't mean to judge but probably am, is that the church seems to be all about appearances and that's not what a church should be about! So, what you said about them all looking stupid, because your H puts on such a good front is probably true. I sure would stay away from there for a while, you don't need the extra stress, but that's just my opinion.
If the pastor calls these women and praises their actions and also tells them that you were upset.. he is going against any moral code that I believe in... if he called and told them they were out go line .. then he is acting well better than I would expect..
I am so sorry that you are having to go thru this..
I don't feel that women or anyone who hasn't walked in your shoes should judge your actions..all they should have said I am so sorry.. i will keep you and your H in my prayers..judging what you have done is so wrong..
I hope your meeting with the IC and pastor goes well.. listen but do what your heart and best judgement is telling you to do..it is all about being healthy in mind, body and spirit..
hugs and prayers,,
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
Your situation does sound like a most severe case of "I don't get it" but most people that have had the good fortune to never walk in our tired and worn out shoes will never "get it". Some of my dearest friends have suggested that I really need to Get Over It.
Truth is...who cares? The ONLY person that needs to "get it" is you. It never ceases to amaze me how others can draw conclusions about lives other than their own. The pastor, the so called friends from church, how can their opinions of YOUR life really effect you? Sure, it can hurt your feelings but does it make you question your resolve to leave the marriage? Maybe you'll need to find another church. You may need to find another C. As sad as it is, try to consider these moves bricks in building your road to happy.
I think the biggest issue is your son. I'm hoping that with time, he'll come around. When he finally "gets" that you just need to start a new life to be happy, maybe he'll find understanding & compassion in his heart.
For now, please be kind to yourself, be confident in your choices and do not take the lack of understanding of anyone personally. I know...easier said than done. But, you always have us. We GET IT. We are here for you.
Hi Linda and Pat
I dont understand where pastor is coming from concerning divorce. I know God hates divorce, but Christ says twice in Matthew that divorce can happen when there is adultery. That is something that confuses me as to why pastor feels the way he does.
Our church is all about forgiveness. No matter the sin, it should be forgiven and we are a place where a person can receive that forgiveness. No condemnation, no judgment. Again, this comes down to pastor tho dont misunderstand, a church should be about forgiveness. The problem is, pastor is filled head to toe with mercy and compassion. Even the people in our congregation will comment from time to time that mayhaps he is a bit too compassionate. He led a bad life before he came to the Lord and for that reason he extends mercy to everyone. I get that, but there is still such a thing called accountability and that is sometimes lacking in him.
They dont condone what h. did. Pastor has said that what h. did was wrong. Im not sure my friends did, but it was at least implied. What they contend is that I should just forgive and move on. I agree and I would love to do that. Why that isnt happening is because he is still doing these things to me. While pastor and those women want me to forgive and rightfully so as I should be doing that, they fail to hold him accountable. They dont get in his face and tell him that what he is doing is wrong no its be compassionate, full of mercy. The end result is that he can do whatever he wants, no matter who he hurts. In other words he gets away with it. And I suffer.
For such a small church that we are, there are many bad marriages. Pastor did a series of sermons last fall on marriage. There is a marriage class and the other pastor and his wife just returned from a marriage conference. Marriages are spoken often in our church. So maybe you are right, maybe pastor feels that the church will look bad if we get a divorce and that maybe that will send out a message to those other couples that are struggling, that divorce is the answer.
Thats my problem with all of this and the way it has been for 5 years no one seems to understand what I am feeling, how this is effecting me. I end up over and over having to justify my feelings, defend them. H. on the other hand, doesnt have to do any of that! Im held accountable, he isnt. Its been a slap on the wrist for him.
I cant remember if I already posted this, but both of these women are divorced. Both of them came from abusive relationships. I know for the one, her husband committed adultery over and over. So I am at a loss as to explain why they dont get what I am going through.
Tomorrow is going to be 2 hours of pastor doing all he can to convince me and the IC that I am wrong and the marriage cant be broken apart. Pastor is not going to go in with an open mind. He is not going to try to understand this thing called Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He is there for one reason only to make me stay. Its going to be two hours of him telling me what I need to do, think, say, change. I know he is not going to turn to h. and speak the same things to him.
Psalm 35 is about the Lord taking vengeance on people. Its about the Lord saying that He will make this right what I am going through. This psalm is saying the He will contend with those who are contending with me. I dont have to do anything but sit back and let the Lord deal with my enemies. He will avenge, vindicate me. Does that make sense?
Pat, I believe that these women thought that what they were doing what was right. They were out of their league tho. They really dont have the skills, knowledge, even the wisdom to deal with this type of situation. They should have stepped down so to speak and just admitted that. Instead, they forged ahead, not realizing the damage they were doing.
I went to h. this morning and asked him if he had told pastor about this and he said no. I dont know if I believe him. I told him that I didnt want him to tell pastor as I know that if pastor knows, he could go back to these women. Its not that I have a problem with pastor knowing. But I cant trust what h. would say to him. I know that he likes to throw me under the bus whenever he can and if he can get anyones sympathy, he will do that. So, my fear is if he tells pastor this, he will misrepresent me.
2 weeks ago when I talked to pastor, I did not back down. I spent an hour on the phone with him, while he pleaded with me, not to do this. But I held my ground. Im planning on doing that tomorrow. I refuse to go back to this. Its time for it to stop! I have to be allowed to protect myself from this. No one seems to accept that!
I am so sorry you are being attacked by the very people you thought would support you.
May I STRONGLY urge you to RUN, not walk, to the library or bookstore and get a copy of Janis Abram Spring's book "How Can I Forgive You?" This book is so powerful and addresses the common misconceptions of forgiveness. It was a huge help to me, and I believe it is valuable for anyone struggling to understand forgiveness.
If you don't read anything else ever, READ THIS BOOK!
I want you to know that you will be in my thoughts and prayers tonight and tomorrow. I know this is a difficult time for you and it's been a rough week also. You've got the Lord on your side and He will be there with you tomorrow, lifting you up. You are a strong person and no matter what goes on in that room, you'll hold your own.
Try and get a good night rest, we are all pulling for you and will be there in spirit.
It's hard to know exactly why the people at your church have reacted like this. They sound like they believe that you're over-reacting, or that you're somehow not justified in your decisions. If so, then you might want to know exactly why. The questions of your sexual experience him seems to imply that your husband would be justified if you were not 'meeting his needs'. That's a worldly belief, not based in Biblical teaching, but a perversion of one. I'd be concerned if your pastor was discussing this with your female friends. That seems to be inappropriate to me.
I know that you mentioned that your children are also not completely supportive. My take is that when many people around you offer the same advise, there's is good reason to consider what they are saying. That can be difficult in situations like this, where you know they don't have the entire 'picture' of the relationship you have with your husband, and the offenses that he has brought.
However, you may find that their advise is ill-advised, and you want to find a new congregation to join, especially if you.
I'm worried about you, as we haven't heard anything since your meeting with the IC and your pastor. I hope you okay and feel up to checking in with us and let us know if your okay?
Hi Everyone,
Well its been a long day. We spent 2 hours with the IC and then another 60-90 with pastor.
In a nutshell, I am to blame for all of this. It was 3 hours of being told, that I am at fault. There was not a single time when pastor got in h.s face to say what the heck are you doing to her! There was no abuse because it was not my h.s intention to hurt me. I expect h. to act and feel the way I do and when he doesnt, I have judged, condemned and blamed him for all of this. I have no grounds for divorce because when I forgave him of the affairs, I re-established the covenant, and since there has not been continued adultery, therefore I now have no grounds to divorce him. I am to return to this marriage. Return to the marriage bed and infact, if I dont and h. strays it will be my fault because I was not doing my wifely duty. I need to change. I need to change my thinking, feelings, actions, etc to adapt to his needs. There was not a single time, when pastor turned to him and said that he needed to learn how to meet my emotional needs or that he needed to change and adapt himself to what I need. It was all me, nothing of h. I am not even allowed to protect myself from what I interpret as abuse. Since the intent was not to harm, then if I misinterpret his actions, words, thats my fault, not his.
H. was not held accountable or responsible at all. I, on the other hand, am carrying the weight of this marriage all on my own.
Tons of hugs to you. IMO, that minister is no man of God. He is a misogynistic, judgmental, little man. I would never accept him as a spiritual leader. He did what so many people who have no personal experience with infidelity do: he blamed the BS. How illogical! If we BS had any control whatsoever of our Ws, then our spouses would not have cheated in the first place! They would have been as committed to the marriage as we are.
But we all know we had no sayso in the matter. Our WS CHOSE to cheat, lie, blame, minimize, reject and any other negative behaviors pertaining to the A. Your WS was no different than mine. They CHOSE to cheat. You didn't give your permission or blessing.
I hope you realize that minister is wrong, wrong, wrong! I hope you never set foot in that hypocritical, judgmental place again. Find a church with a pastor who knows right from wrong and tries to help, not bully, you.
I don't think you are that surprised, are you?
Huge hugs,
ff
This message has been edited by fairyfriend on May 10, 2012 10:44 PM
Oh naomi, I wish I was there to hug and comfort you. I can't imagine how you must feel right now. Probably from heart ache to wanting to kill someone. I can't even believe that this "so called pastor?????" said all these things to you? He isn't a man of the cloth, no pastor would say those things and not even call your WS down for what he did. Doesn't he know what the word, Adultery means, it's all in the bible. People got stoned to death for committing this act of betrayal in a marriage.
I agree with ff, I do presume that you won't ever step foot in this church again. They don't deserve a lady as fine as you. Find a church that deserves you and will bring you peace, not sorrow and shame.
At any time, were your IC and pastor in the sessions together with the two of you? I thought that was what was suppose to take place? What did your IC say, did he help you at all with the session with your so called H? You didn't mention how that went, only about this so called pastor.
I know that you have got to be totally exhausted, but I do presume that you know that none of what was said was true? You know you aren't responsible for anything and it infuriates me to think that all this blame was put on you. Did you WH even stick up for you or did he pull that "holier than though act?" I know I am sounding mean, I could just chew nails right now. You are our friend and when you are attacked, I sure take it personally.
Just know, The Lord is on your side, obviously the devil was working over time today, but he's got to take a rest sometimes.
Find some peace, my friend and I hope you can get some rest and just know that you are loved.
I am not surprised... I feel so sad for the whole church family that worships there..
The MC community phd's would have a field day with his attitude... Explains the attitude of the lady you were with who experienced infidelity,, she bought into his idea of accepting abuse and being unworthy of respect..
Please run from this church community and never look back from .. There are wonderful ministers who preach Gods love... ..
Hugs..
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
Have been out of town for 2 weeks off and on...all I can say is : Where do you live, because I sure as hell do not want to go ANYWHERE near there.
RUN...do not walk away from these people!
Our MC initiated our first session stating that whatever brought our marriage to this point, probably had to do with issues that we were both responsible for. However, how each of us chose dealt with those issues, is totally an INDVIDUAL responsibility. H, MC said took the hurtful, betrayal, self-serving route.
That being said we now would try to repair the personal damage that has been done. With his help we have done just that over the last 18 months. At NO time did our MC let me blame myself for H's behavior. It then became a joint responsibility to work on our happiness, but HIS total responsibility for the A.
I cannot believe that your pastor and "Church Ladies" are hiding behind the cloth of Christianity to push whatever agenda they have. It is judgmental, degrading, disrespectful and arrogantly perverse.
This is not the word od the God I know.
They are hypocrites of the worse kind and I believe it is a patriarchal show for control over the congregation. Find an IC from another town, go to a different church not under the influence of this one, and DO NOT buy into their sick, irreverent, better than thou attitude.
Sorry you have been subjected to such judgmental people. They are the ones that will have to explain their truly non-Christian behavior on the true Judgement Day!
In a certain sense the IC threw me under the bus as well. Not so blatant tho, h. and pastor didn't know what was going on.
IC has been seeing h. for 3 years. I just started seeing him about 2 months ago. Each session I have gone in and told him the crud that h. has been dishing out - the lack of sensitivity, ignoring me, getting angry, blaming me. He never said that I was over reacting or that I was just not understanding h. He never said anything remotely like that. However, when pastor started saying that men are wired differently from women and that I am judging h. cause he isn't doing, thinking, saying that way I do, the IC spoke up and said that yes, that is what I am doing and that I need to work on that.
Throw me under the bus why don't you? Have 4-5 sessions with me, and never indicate to me that maybe it is my thought processes that are off.
Please don't think that I view myself as this perfect person who can do nothing wrong. I can list my faults and flaws better than anyone can. My only point is, whenever I have spoken about the hurt that h. has been causing me, has the IC said that maybe I am just misunderstanding h.? That maybe this hurt is simply a case of men being wired differently? Nope! He hasn't spoken one word or even hinted about that. Thursday was the first time - with h. and pastor there - that he says that. I felt like he dropped this little bomb on me.
My role in life is to be this door mat. And the sooner I accept that, the happier everyone else will be.
No, your job, IMO, is to get angry, and in that anger to find your voice, the voice that will speak up for you, that will say no more attacking Naomi, no more bullying Naomi, no more asking you to swallow others' lies and cruelties simply because they have penises and you don't. No more taking you for granted. No more using you for a verbal punching bag. NO MORE ABUSE!!!
The only one who can reach inside you and find your voice, who can empower you, who can set you free, is you.
Huge encouraging hugs,
ff
Don't settle. Don't ever settle again. You have spent too much of your life settling.
What ff said, was right on the mark. I couldn't have said it any better! Find your own darn counselor and tell the pastor, congregation and this so called IC to go to you know where, better yet, never speak to them again.
You have been through so much and it sicken's me that they are all putting all this on you. It's so unfair and once you stand up for you and I think you can do it very well, will make you feel so much better.
Only you know what will make you happy. Only you & your WH know what truly goes on behind closed doors. I sure hope you don't need the approval of these judgmental bastards to allow you to continue on your path. Please don't let them badger you into doubting yourself.
I do have one question...why in the hell does your WH want you to stay in the marriage? You've told him it's over? You told him you don't love him anymore, right? So what's in it for him? Is he just trying to convince other unimportant people that he's done all he could? Is it all about appearances for him?
If so...that is just another reason to leave the man. Someone so damn insincere, two faced and uncaring doesn't deserve any more of your time.
It's up to you. Only you. Decide what will make YOU happy and if you MUST deal with the opinions of others regarding YOUR life choices...do it later!
I agree with the others...you need to stand up for Naomi!!!
Are these people trying to save the marriage. You are on a different path now. You have tried for years and its not working for you.
You need some one to put their arms around you and tell you it will be ok. Here we are at HH.
One note about everyone not addressing your husband. I got frustrated with our MC too. After a while I realized my wife wasn't really participating. She would go and be quiet. The counselor would work with me and I felt attacked. He was doing what he could. Did your husband get involved? If your husband is not asking for help why try and help him.
Bill
This message has been edited by caniforgiveher on May 13, 2012 2:55 PM
Hello All,
Thanks for your support. I have never seen any of you or talked to you face to face and yet you give me more support than all the people in my life. Thats quite a sad statement when you think about it.
I tried speaking up. I have spent the last 5 years trying to explain to my oldest. I spent 3 hours with my friends on Monday. I spent 3 hours with pastor on Thursday and of course, I have spent 38 years trying to speak up and make myself heard to my h. I failed. I have not been able to make them understand. All of them are telling me that I am wrong.
They tell me that I have judged incorrectly, that I want h. to say, think, feel, act the way I want. But arent they doing the same to me? Arent they saying that I should act, think, believe, etc, the way they do? Arent they judging me in the same way they are accusing me of judging h.?
I cant leave. There is no place for me to go. I dont have the money, the income. H. has not been at a full time job for almost 2 years now. The chances of him finding fulltime work, fade with each day, cause we are now both 60 years old. I know people get tired of hearing that, but unfortunately, that doesnt change the fact that I cant leave. So Im stuck. And its either do this their way, or to h*ll with me.
Truthfully - and here we go again - something that Naomi has misinterpreted - he has not really said anything to me about this arrangement since he moved into the other bedroom. Over a month ago, he asked me how "this" was going. And I told him that if I could move out I would. So then I asked him how was it going for him and his reply was "I dont know". Since then he has not said one word about it. Now I know from the IC that he is miserable, but the IC agrees that he is miserable only because he is not getting his supply.
Then 2 weeks ago, I asked him, what were the consequences of "this"? And his answer was that it made him sad, he is unhappy, it bothers him, he doesnt like it, and truth be told, he thinks I am being mean. He never mentioned that the consequences were a broken marriage or that his children would come from a broken home. He never mentioned how this is hurting me or the kids. Nope, the consequences were all about what this is doing to him and to h*ll with what it is doing to others.
But of course, when I brought that up to my friends, pastor and IC, I was accused of expecting him to think, act, say, the way I wanted and have judged and condemned him because he doesn't. I was told that this is a man thing, that all men would respond the way he did.
Yes, these people are trying to save the "marriage" and sacrifice me in the process.
Bill, thats been my point all along. H. never did anything to make this marriage work. For 33 years I fought against him because he never paid attention to me. I've said it hundreds of times - strangers meant more to him than I did. He never supported anything I did. 10 years ago when we were getting close to being empty-nesters, I went to him and told him that we needed to cultivate some hobbies that we both enjoyed. He told me to go do my own thing without him as he didn't want to be apart of anything I was involved in. If someone was arguing with me, he would take their side. I've had people rip into me while he either stood there and agreed with them, or walked away to let me battle alone. He likes to throw me under the bus as well. Enjoys making me look bad to other people and on and on.
After he told me about the affairs, I was the one who made the IC appointments. I was the one who told him to talk to pastor. I was the one who told him to tell some of his friends, so they could pray, keep him accountable, help him out. I have come to be saying - its been me doing all the doing. But again, here we go - when I brought that up to pastor, he defends him. Says h. is at a point where I have beat him down so much, that he is afraid of everything - even if it is to just pick up the phone and ask for help.
It's all my fault. I'm to blame for everything. And on top of that, I have to stay here.
Thanks for your continued support and caring. The people around here could learn a lesson or two from all you guys.
Blessings!
Naomi
Oh BTW - I emailed one of my "friends" - one of the ones who condemned me. I told her that I had seen the light, recognized my flaws, etc. I thanked her for helping me see how I was at fault in all of this. I told her I was grateful that she was honest, tho I knew how hard that must have been for her. She emailed me back and basically said "you're welcome". What a bunch of crap!
Naomi,
We all have expectations... We expect our S to love and cherish us.. we expect them to be faithful.. that said when it doesn't happen we are devastated. To recover it takes a lot of work..from both the WS and the BS.. when the WS doesn't do the work.. there is again a lot of hurt.. you deal as best as you can and have to decide what to do..
Your children have expectations that you will be together for the rest of your lives.. that is normal.. you rocked the boat for your son because you called your H on his behavior.. that affects you..( the infidelity doesn't affect your son in the same way).. you son wants his secure world to just be the same.. change doesn't fit his perfect world..
The women in the church are like the stepford wives.. no emotions.. just make everything happy and don't make waves.. you are not fitting their mold..you are going against the norm .. you want the happy marriage but you don't have it You tried.. and it didn't work. so you try to make your own life better.. change the bad things and move on.. your life journey is to move forward and learn..you take the good , and leave the bad behind..
Your H isn't into making your life comfortable.. it is all about him.. he is fine with letting you support him.. you are paying the bills. I am sure that he isn't doing anything to contribute to the home, i.e. cooking .. cleaning... he is in a comfortable situation.. you need to continue to make a better life for your self. Let his wallow in his own stuff.. he will find someone to care for him..
Six or 7 yrs ago years ago there was a member I think her name was Lisa.. she was supporting her H ..he was having an A"s with a few women.. she felt guilty that he couldn't work.. I think that she finally asked him to leave.. .. The bad behavior continued until she finally had to act..
You are getting stronger and you are setting a great example for your children right now.. your oldest may not agree with you but they will get the message.. marriage consists of standards we all stand behind.. it is being honorable when no-one is looking or watching.. and there are consequences when you act in a dishonorable manner. Your H hasn't honored you or your relationship.. he is suffering the consequences.. he has the ability to change.. but he isn't.. willing or care to change..
I think once you move churches you will find people who think as we do.. there will always be those who are clones and don't see the whole picture..
keep strong,
hugs,
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
Hi Naomi,
The Lisa of which Pat speaks of sounds a lot like me, in fact may be me, I'm not sure..I am fortunate that I have had the same job for the last 26 years and am going to be qualified to take full retirement in another 3-4 years..With that being said my WH sounds like your WH when it comes to job prospects..He has nothing and I mean NOTHING in any type of savings that I could benefit from in the event of D..He has an inheritance but I think it is a small one...Anyway, any inheritance he has gotten wouldn't affect me, unless a judge ruled that it was a large enough one that H could support himself without my help...WH's lack of financial support/resources being contributed to the marriage has hit me in the butt big time in this time of need.We have been in an in house separation for a long time. at least 2-3 years....Had WH contributed an equal amount and had had his own retirement when D day hit, I probably would have moved out and on years ago..
I have had a wall of fear during these years of in house separation..The fear of making a major life change that I cannot reverse..
With that being said, I am slowly losing the joy in things that make me want to live, to get up and go and do something different each day..
I have an appointment with a lawyer at the end of this month..I have to do something to get out of this house, end this marriage, before it is too late for me and I end up not caring about ANYTHING..
Stuck
You know how I care for you and all that you are going through. These past two weeks have been awful for you and their are worse words than that to describe it, probably HELL is better like it!
I read what stuck was saying and know that she is just waiting for retirement to make her move, but as I just read her last note to you, I can see that it is really tearing her up inside, this waiting in limbo.
I know that you said that your H doesn't have a job and finance's aren't good. Do you cook, do laundry, etc. for him still? If I was in your situation, I wouldn't do that for him, as he is doing nothing to make your life any easier, he's actually making it worse. I would just be cooking for my son and myself. If their is enough, let him make his own plate. I would make his life as miserable as he was making mine. I think back on myself and the WH and I can't remember what I did, but I think when I was functioning, I did cook for all of us and I regret that now. But, I did have the Melanoma surgery 6 weeks after D-day, so I was unable to cook, clean or doing anything for a couple of months.
Since you don't see any way out of this situation and he's sure not changing, could you sell the house, divide what assets you have and you and your son move into a one or two bedroom apartment and have enough money to live? I often think, it wouldn't matter where you lived, as long as you have some peace of mind. Just a thought to think about. I know that none of this is easy, I can't imagine being in your shoes and having no place to go and not enough money to do it with. It just seems so unfair that it seems like he is living off you and your doing all the cooking, cleaning, etc. What does he do all day?
You are a touch lady, who has surely gotten something you didn't deserve and my heart goes out to you. I'm glad that you found HH, I know that it has been of a big help to you.
The people you speak of are NOT your friends...at least they are not any kind of friend I know.
I feel for you and the circumstance you are in. I cannot relate, as I have worked in a government job for 27 yrs and knew I could support myself. Do you have a sister, brother, cousin...anyoner that could help you get set up? Before you get discouraged, talk to your lawyer and see what he/she suggests. Move as slow as you need to. There has got to be something you can do to maintain your self esteem.
YOU are important! You deserve to be happy.
These "Christians" that are judging you arevself serving hypocrites. Stay true to yourself...you can make this....God blessband stay strong.
Thanks Everyone,
I'll see if I can address all of this. I have not worked since 1977. I have a teaching degree but decided to be a stay-at-home mom. Thankfully, h's job afforded us that luxuary. 2 years ago, h. was let go of his job. By the grace of God, he has found enough work to keep us afloat. Right now he has a permanent part time job, but he needs full time. I have tried to find a job but because I have been out of the work force for so long I haven't been able. Plus, as I said, we are both 60. People don't want to hire 60 year olds.
H. is good about helping around the house. Especially these past 2 years. He doens't like to be idle, so he always has to be doing something. I don't cook much anymore cause it is hard to cook for 2 people - our youngest is seldom around. I did stop doing his laundry but my friends told me I was wrong in doing that.
I agree with you Pat, that the women at church are being like the stepford wives and expecting me to be that way too.
I have thought that maybe we should sell the house. However the housing market is lousy, as we all know. We still owe a lot on this house and would probably lose money if we were to try to sell it. In our development, houses have been for sale for years and have not sold. Those that have, are selling for 30-40, even 50 thousand less than what they were bought for.
The only relative I have who would take me in, is my daughter and I just don't want to do that to her. Plus she is 5 states away. I'm sure I could probably move in with my sister, for a time. But then again, once my sister learned of the affairs, she has never asked me about them since. She just assumes everything is fine.
One of the gals from church emailed me today to find out how I am doing. I was honest with her. I told her how I felt about the things she and her friend had said to me - and weren't saying to h. I felt I had nothing to lose and that she needed to hear what I had to say. Who knows. If this goes the way everything else has gone, it will probably come back and bite me in the tush.
Thanks for your blessings and care. I do so appreciate it.
Love that you spoke your mind with the "friend" from church! No one gets to tell you how you should feel. Bet it felt good to speak the truth!
Hope you're able to find a way out. If you feel confident that you need to move on to find happiness, then don't give up hope. If the door to your marriage is truly closed, then find a window!
I like Shawn's phrase "Hope you're able to find a way out. If you feel confident that you need to move on to find happiness, then don't give up hope. If the door to your marriage is truly closed, then find a window!"..
The above phrase describes my life in a nutshell..
I am in a similar situation as you..I am still living in the same house as WH..I want us to be physically separated..WH won't leave..When I file for divorce I am going to be in a tenuous situation financially while WH's life will be the same. As per our divorce laws WH will end up getting half of my modest life savings and retirement..I think I am going to start another thread, I don't want to threadjack..
One of the small things I am doing is pursuing my photography...Things that I can find to do for fun in order to distract myself from my situation help to keep me from going crazy!
I know that you are in a bad situation right now and I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner. I love Shawn's comment, about the window, I hope you will find one to climb through to some happiness. I read your post and you know that I understand and I hope that you have found a new church by now and new friends.
Stuck's photography is really nice, maybe you can find something to concentrate on also, to take your mind off your situation. I joined this photography club also and could spend hours on there, if I would let myself and it sure takes my mind off things. But I'm still sleeping with my H and their in lies the problem. I get very uncomfortable sometimes, like tonight and just have to get up and go in another room.
He has started to act controlling again and I told him last night, that if it kept up, I was going to do just that.
