If I could just find a word that adequately expresses how I am feeling, then maybe there could be some kind of relief from this, some kind of release. Crying doesn't help. Anger isn't strong enough. Rage doesn't touch it.
I wrote him a very private, personal, intimate letter the other day. Basically I told him that I would be willing to work on this marriage, if he would just stop with the Bill Clinton - "I did not have sex with that woman".
What does he do? He sends it off to the IC. I was on the computer this morning, checking emails. I went to the "sent" file and there it was. He told IC not to tell me that he had sent it. Not to reply to it, but to call him or text him. He told him that he is concerned about my mental health.
I called him and asked for his email at work as I didn't have it. When he gave it to me, I forwarded the email on to him. I don't think even a second had passed before he was trying to call me. I didn't pick up. I learned that he was coming home, so I left. When I returned he wanted to know what it was about the email that upset me. What it was about the email that upset me??? Seriously? I refused to talk to him. Now of course, he is pouting.
Yea, so now do I have enough from him to be able to go to those who have judged me and told me I have to stay in this marriage? Will this now convince them?
I had this litte glimmer of hope this week. He went to the women at church - on his own- and told them to back off. The one who did the most damage is now having a pity party for herself. Woe is me crap. Whatever.
That's the way it has been for 38 years. We fight, I tell him what I need and then for a day, a week, 2 weeks, he will be on his best behavior. I get hopeful that things really are going to change. And then BAM, he throws me to the ground all over again. And in the blink of an eye, 38 years pass.
Sorry. I know you guys are tired of reading this. I'm tired of having to write it. We're all tired. When does this crap stop?
I am just sending you hugs.. the stuff will not end because your H doesn't get it .. it is all about him.. doing what makes him look good in the long run..
Now go back over your past conversations with your IC.. he has seen you get stronger.. you are stronger.. you are feeling pressure from the Pastor, your son.. to make things work.. so you pray , try, offer the peace offering and ..he doesn't get what you are doing..
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
>>Yea, so now do I have enough from him to be able to go to those who have judged me and told me I have to stay in this marriage? Will this now convince them?>>
You already had enough. It ONLY matters when YOU have had enough. What they think about your life choices is irrelevant.
So sorry, Naomi. I know how it can be. You wanna believe maybe, just maybe...
Maybe you already know what you want. You just have to do it for you and forget about useless, unwanted opinions.
Hang in there.
I'm going to keep a list. I'm calling it "Can I End the Marriage Now?" I'm going to compile all the crap he has done and will continue to do, and then give it to those folks who say I have to stay in this marriage.
We are just one week from sitting in the IC's office for 2 hours. In that time, he has twice dumped on me.
The first came on Monday - 4 days after we met up with pastor and the IC. 4 days after I am told that I need MC in order to find out what I am doing wrong in this marriage and how to meet his needs in the way he wants. 4 days after being told that that is just the way men are wired, etc etc etc.
H. was at work, and I crashed. Big time. Major major breakdown. My youngest was here. God bless his heart he did all he could to comfort me. I didn't much like having him here to witness that. I went to my bedroom,so he wouldn't see, but he heard me. I didn't like it at all, but when we crack, we crack and it is hard to control that.
At 6 that evening, h. came home and our son told him about what had happened. He didnt say a single word to me and we were together all night long. He watched tv, worked in the yard, ate dinner. At 11, I'm in the computer room. He peeks his head in on the way to bed and says brightly with a lilt in his voice "Hey I heard you had a bad day, you ok?" Trust me there was no sincerity in his voice. It was a more "oh btw" kind of thing, like in "heads up, just wanted you to know I put the garbage out or whatever". There was no concern, no true caring. Just pokes his head in on the way to bed.
Now remember,IC has given him explicit directions on how to handle these types of situations. But he ignored all of that. I told him I was fine, cause I knew he really didn't care, so he trots off to bed.
I latered confronted him and he admitted that he had been callous, that he chose to be that way. He admitted that he knew he had handled it all wrong, but that didn't move him to come and apologize to me and start over. He had hoped that that had been enough to satisfy me, even tho he knew it wasn't.
The next day he is on the phone with IC telling him that he thinks I am going crazy. Well is it any wonder????
I wonder if the reason many of us are still at HH is that our spouses have not become the person we can turn to. In spite of the problems all marriages have before the A the marriage has not gotten better.
It would be great if when my wife saw me starting into a valley of this roller coaster ride she would put her arms around me and hold me. But that would mean she would have to deal with something she doesn't want to deal with. So I continue falling till I kit bottom. How can we make our spouses that person we want them to be or when do we stop trying. I know your answer and having been down this road I support you completely.
I think most of us have been to MC. I know I went fully expecting I would go here for an hour every week or two and in a year or so the marriage would be healed. I never considered it may not work. as much as I want to blame my WS the MC is a joint venture so we have to share the blame. ( counseling not the A)
I think you have to ask yourself where do you want to be at the end of this year? And at this time next year? Now how do you get there.
It's going to be a dificult journey and I would expect hurdles along the way. You will always have the support of us at HH. Maybe you should post on. Single healing to get some advise from those that have have already gone down that road. They have already dealt with the problems and can adviser you better.
I have a comment.. I think MC can only work if both partners are invested in the program.. you can share blame in the breakdown of the marriage relationship things that you could have done.. better communication.. taking partner for granted ..etc. but. MC can only helps repair those issues.. only if both are "working" on the repair process, and BOTH want a better relationship..
Taking the 1/2 blame for MC not working .. doesn't work for me.. investing time and actions.. into something is a positive action.. the breakdown of MC not working is when the actions fall on deaf ears and there is no return action..
My H and I work on our communication process.
My H and I squabble.. my kids say stop the arguing .. last night we went out for dinner.. looking for a parking space.. I told H" there's one.". he say "there is a handicapped one.. "I say" right nest to that one". he say "you didn't let me finish my statement". ( annoyed at me )..he could have just said OH I see it.. and parked ..but got annoyed because I apparently said something in the middle of his train of thought.. this is typical banter for us.. stupid ..bad communication but we got the car parked.. we have worked on communication skills.. better than it was but we still struggle at times.. we no longer carry the anger for long periods of time.. now short burst, and the problem is over..and we let it go.. Not perfect but better because we work on it.
just my thoughts..
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
I think you "hit the nail on the head" with your post. i can sure relate to what you said to naomi. You look back and see in your mind the person you married and loved so deeply. You put up with a lot of things, maybe not an A YET, but maybe no support emotionally, drinking, fatherhood, etc. Then the A or A's happen, your world falls into hell, you try and put the pieces back together, with the help of a MC, but they either go and try or go and never get it!!!!! So, like you've said, no matter how much work you do and I say "you" as they never seem to be there when you need them, nothing changes. You've been through an A, hell and back and are probably at your lowest in every aspect of your life and wonder what happened to that person you married?
I don't think we can make our spouses the person we want them to be, personally. They have to want to be that person and like naomi's husband, who has even implied he doesn't want to change or else he can't see himself like he should, it's not possible.
I just went through a minor thing this morning, it was minor, but it showed me that he had not changed. After picking up my daughter and grandchildren at the airport and dog sitting for a week, my grandchildren made a comment to their grandfather, "I bet you did most of the walking of the dog?" He let them know that he did and of course they laughed, as they know how much he loves to walk, does it for exercise everyday so they assumed he walked the dog. It was all said in jest by them, so I told them, no way, Grandma had walked the dog a lot also, but then he disagreed with my response. It wasn't a big deal, but we've had many discussions, where he starts to cut me down a little as a joke, everyone jumps in, being children when this all started now they are 24 and I laugh along with all of them as I'm embarrassed and don't want to start a scene. I address it later with him and his standard comment is, "It wasn't a big deal, I don't know why you are making so much out of it?" The same thing happened last night with the dog, I addressed it this morning, same comment out of his mouth. I told him, why can't you see that it bothers me, it might not be a big deal to you, but it's the same crap to me so it shows me that you haven't changed. Of course then he says, "Well I slipped up one time, I can't be perfect all the time." This makes my blood boil, as you don't make the same mistake all the time if you are learning from your mistakes.
I told him this morning, "All you had to do was say, oh no, your Grandma shared it with me and we both pretty much did it equally." But then he wouldn't have gotten the reaction he wanted, would he.
A simple thing, turns into a 20 minute confrontation, just because he didn't say right away, that he was sorry and shouldn't have done it. He got all defensive and things went down hill. Then he comes up 10 minutes later, says he's sorry and wants to put his arms around me. But I am angry at what has happened and still hasn't changed, so I don't want to hear the "I'm sorry now" nor do I want his arm around me, so I pull away and then he gets mad. I don't know if this is wrong of me or not, but I'm sick of him making excuses for his behavior and wanting me to forget it for the 1000 time. Bill, am I wrong in doing this, with the apology and affection? In my heart, I feel he is doing it because he hates confrontation and wants things to be "normal."
I'm sort of in a situation like naomi, except that I do have the money to leave, but like you, I keep hoping he will change enough for me to stay. Has he changed some, yes he has, but the pattern hasn't.
At least you went to the counseling and participated, he never did, not 27 yrs. ago, 12 yrs. ago and only during this past couple of months did he go 2 times, but our counselor was of no help, he didn't get my H to see the issues, no questions that I asked were fully answered and this counselor actually accused me of asking to many questions. My H liked him, as he never had to address my issues, but needless to say, I was upset as this had happened before and I stopped going to see him. I told him up front what I need from this therapy and he didn't provide it, he dismissed me.
So, like naomi's situation, our's is similar except for her financial problem. Do you stay with a spouse who isn't the person that you want them to be, or cut your loss's, in my case 50 yrs. and leave? You can't continue to keep going on and on and still be in the same spot as you were a year ago. Life is to short, but it is a hard decision to make.
I think your suggestion to naomi is very wise in regards to going on SH, as I've checked it out myself and it helps you see what your life can be like.
It was a great post to naomi and I wanted to let you know that and it also helped me, so I thank you for that.
I can so relate to what you just wrote to Bill. The parking comment was funny, probably not to you at the time, as it wouldn't have been to me. My point being, is things like that happen to us constantly. He interrupts me, just like your H did to you in mid sentence when you were trying to be helpful. All he had to do was say, "That's good" then their wouldn't have been an issue. Do you think that our spouses interrupt because they do have something else on their mind, or because they want to do it the way they want to do it and don't want advice from their wife of so many years? If it had been the OW, do you think he would have responded that way? I ask my H if our daughter had said the same thing, would he have reacted that way? He never knows what to say, but I've seen him and no he wouldn't have. He doesn't have the baggage with our daughter, that we both have together, so he would talk nicer to her.
We haven't gotten to the spot that you have in regards to not letting the anger go as quickly. Sometimes I can, but if it's the same issues all over again, I do get irritated longer.
I do agree with you on the MC comment. I won't take any of the blame for it not working, as I went for 5 yrs. he showed up, but in body only and when he did, it was to point out my one thing I might have done wrong. He never paid attention and most of the time didn't say a lot. We didn't discuss the sessions afterwards, usually ended up arguing about them and 5 yrs. longer he was no different. He hated going, never thought of IC, didn't think he needed it and even now with all our problems, he still doesn't think he needs it. He honestly doesn't believe in counseling. He thinks they are just after your money. So, I'm the one that learned not to let my H be controlling after the A, he learned nothing.
I'm glad that you are both working on making yours better, he's trying, but I don't know how long it takes for a person to continue to stop making the same mistakes?
I would love to be out of here in a year. I thought that I would wait til my daughter's wedding in November and then it was well why not wait til after Christmas. Truth is, unless h. gets a job, I'm not able to go anywhere!
Thanks so much Bill for your kind words! I really appreciate it.
I found out that the person I married, never truly existed. I found out that the life I thought I had, never was. 5 years ago, lie became truth, truth became lie. That's why I have always wanted to get out of here. It was all phony. None of it was real. Why stay? I was in love with something that didn't exist and when I found out who this man really was? Well I surely didn't love what I was seeing. No way! If I had just met him and he gave me his life story, I would run away as fast as I could.
OMG Linda - our husbands must be twins. Do you know how many times he has screwed up and dismissed it all by saying "hey I messed up, no big deal. It happens, Im only human!" It's as tho they can do their dirty tricks, but all is well just as long as they say they are sorry. Being sorry doesn't take away pain or heartache. It doesn't make the wrong right either. Infact the only good "I'm sorry" could be is, if it brought about real change, real remorse and a turning away from what they had done and not doing it anymore. Otherwise, I'm sorry is just words, nothing more.
I've been so worried about you, as I haven't seen you on here. Your letter makes me sad, I can't imagine that their is no way out, God wouldn't allow this, their has always got to be away? Maybe The Lord will come up with something that none of us are expecting? I know how strong your faith is, so the prayers are still coming.
I hear everything you are saying about your H, no we both know our H's aren't the people we married and it's sad, but also it makes you angry. I often, as I'm sure you do, look back and wonder why we didn't see the real person? I think it was because we loved them to much to see the real person. We were trying so hard to be the perfect spouse, Mother, Father and everything in the marriage that they weren't doing. I can see what you are saying in regards to your marriage and I feel so hopeless to do anything to help you.
I've read everything you've said about why you can't afford to leave and I get it. But something has got to be better than the hell hole you are living in. He doesn't have a job, so why not a separation and he leaves? He has all those wonderful church friends, let him go live with one of them or let the Pastor put him up. Why are you obligated to let him stay in a house with you after adultery? Is that against your state laws to tell him to get out? I know in Fl. with an attorney's help and if you can't afford one, their is legal aid to help you. Is this a possibility? I know your daughter's wedding is probably the most important thing in the world to you right now and it should be. Are you concerned he might mess it up if you two aren't together? If you continue under this stress, you might not be around to go to it. Just think about it and I'm curious as to if it's possible to make him leave?
My husband is adopted, so who's to say that he didn't have a twin? It sure seems true, doesn't it? He pouts also, talks like a baby or whines, I should say when he's tired. What grown man does that and I told him that last night, as he whined that he was tired, so I said, "Well just go to bed, why whine about it?" We cleaned house together yesterday, as our cleaning people are on vacation, but he had to talk about it for 2 days before hand. He is so dam* difficult to live with, looks miserable and is always negative about life.
In regards to the "sorry's," I so agree with you, they mean nothing when you are apologizing for the same thing all the time. If you were truly changing, you wouldn't continue to make the same mistakes. My H's says it, but it takes a 30 minute discussion, where he dismiss's what he did, like you said, no big deal, your making to much out of it, then he finally might say, I'm sorry! It has to drawn out of him and I am doing most of the explaining to him why it's wrong and that's not the thing to do, as the lady from BAN told me. His new thing is that, "I am working on changing a lot of things, so I guess I'll have to add one more thing to my list." It's like he needs to add a little dig in when ever possible. So, yes, I think we married twins.
He just came in and wanted to know where the two pictures were that he had in his home office, one of me when I graduated and one of the two of us. They've been gone for over a week and he's just missed them. I told him, that I took them out, that was the 18 yr. old girl that married him and she wasn't here any longer and I didn't want the one up of him and I till I saw that our marriage was better. I reminded him that he hadn't called the BAN counselor yet that he said he was going to see, but he didn't say anything. I doubt that he will really do it, as they are both very religious and that tends to make him uncomfortable.
Anyway, friend, I'm glad to hear from you, even though what you are saying, is sad. Take care of yourself and let me know what you think of what I said about an official separation, with him out of the house.
Just called in here, and so sorry to see you in such a fix. And as for your hubby having a twin - huh - believe me they are triplets, I know where there's another one just the same!!
You know very well that your H has NPD, and you know well (only too well) how deceptive and sneaky NPD is. It's insidious and you have to be very perceptive and look very carefully to see it. And most folks simply can't or won't do it, either they don't have the knowledge, or they don't have the inclination. Plus, usually most everyone around the NPD person is 'normal' and, they expect the NPD person to be normal too. What they say to you about him is all based on that assumption, and because he has NPD, their assumptions are wrong. Just plain wrong. They are just as wrong as if they assumed he was incredibly stupid or even disabled because he didn't speak Spanish, because every 'normal' person does...if you get my drift. Your H CAN'T be a 'real' person, never could, never will. Nothing you or anyone else can do will change that and the only thing YOU can do is take the 'geographical solution' - keep the biggest distance you can unless & until you can actually leave the house. Yes, your marriage has been a lie, it's not what you thought it was ( as you know) and it's not what any of these helpful church folks think it was either.
I fell into the trap myself for too long of simply wishing things were different, but they didn't get different until I made it happen. I made a distance and I kept it..and the longer and wider that was, the better I felt. NPD is like a poison dye, it soaks in worse the closer you are, but the further away you are the less it will poison you. Believe me, it's true, I have learnt from hard experience with H ... No one with NPD sees the same world you do, and no one without NPD expects to see NPD. It really takes a mind shift to recognise it, and these folks causing you so much grief are not going to have one.
It's NOT YOU Naomi - it's H - now take that knowledge, tuck it to your chest, and treasure it. You are a perfectly normal loving worthwhile person.
And, there will be an escape route in your life, you can't see one now, but one will appear. Trust me, once you feel better, you will start seeing what possibilities are around you...THEY WILL BE THERE.
Hang in there Naomi. Someone said to me years ago, the sun still shines, and one day you will be happy enough again to see and appreciate it. It's so true. There is a better tomorrow out there dear.
It's great to know that someone understands this because, you are right, no one does. No one wants to. They think that if it doesn't exist in their range of knowledge, then it doesn't exist at all. Plus I am accused of trying to find fault with him and this is how I am doing it -by claiming he has NPD.
It is insidious especially because the NPD knows that no one believes that diagnosis so they prey on their victims in just that way. For me, people think I am nuts, that I am trying to find fault, blame, that I don't appreciate what I have in H.
It's crazy. I just want to scream. But then that would play into this game he plays by making me out to be crazy with people. He knows all the right things to say to make himself look good. He knows the right things to do. He knows how to portray himself as this great husband, father, whatever. I just want to scream at people not to fall for his deceit, but then, as I said, they would just think I am insane.
My head has been spinning for days now. I really do think I am going crazy with all of this. My kids were home this past weekend. On Friday night we were sitting out back and the kids started telling stories about my rantings and ravings when they were younger. Everyone got quite a laugh out of it all. H. came to me later and asked me if it bothered me and I said of course it bothered me. Why can't they talk about the good stuff, why do they have to talk about the bad?
These rantings and ravings - they were caused by my h.'s treatment of me. They were the straws that broke the camel's back. Each one was preceeded by months of being ignored, bashed, mistreated by him, kicked to the curb, thrown under the bus. So here he is now, trying to be all sensitive to my feelings - asking me if I was bothered by it all. But did he go to the kids and set the record straight? Did he go to them and tell them that the reason I was ranting was because he had mistreated me? Did he tell them the truth to it all? OMG NO!
I even told him that. Told him about how he pretended to be caring but in truth, if he really cared, he would have told the kids. Today is Friday, do you think that he has gone to the kids and told them the truth? No again! It's not going to happen. He is going to continue to let them think that their mother is a ranting lunatic. No wonder my head is spinning.
No one wants to think that he is anything other than what he presents himself to be. They have all bought into his lies and deceptions. If they were to say I was right, then they would be admitting that they were duped and no one wants to think that about themselves. No one wants to say they are stupid, so they just continue to perpetuate the lies, all for their own egos. And I have to bear the cost of their egoes and his. It's all at my expense. I'm the one who gets sacrificed. No wonder my head is spinning cause I see no way out of this.
A friend of mine, called my pastor yesterday and talked with him. My pastor doesn't support the NPD diagnosis. He just thinks I am trying to find fault with h. My friend did not tell me what pastor said, but I am sure that he was able to convince her that my thinking is all wrong. She is one of the few people who understand what I am going thru, who is able to see what h. is putting me thru. But now, I am sure that that has changed. She wouldn't tell me over the phone what pastor had to say. She wants to meet up with me instead. We will see. Hopefully I am wrong. I really hope I am wrong because if I'm not this is really going to throw me into a tailspin.
Sorry to be so negative. I'm looking for the light at the end of this tunnel.
Please consider that you do not need the approval of others to find your own happiness. Why would you feel better about yourself and your life if the pastor, your "friends" at church and your kids all believed your husband was a two-faced monster? Do you truly need their approval to find a way to be happy? What would happen if you tried to find a way to start living for yourself and disregard what others think of you?
Maybe you can't move out, but you could choose to move on. Redirect your thinking. Focus on what will make you happy. Be selfish. Think only of yourself. The opinions of others are irrelevant.
This isn't easy idea, but neither is the life you have now.
At the very least, stop listening to any negative remarks regarding your life. If someone begins to chastise you, you have every right to say, "Thanks so much. But I do not care to hear your opinion. If I am interested in hearing what you have to say in the future, I'll let you know." Cut them off at the knees. Shut them down. Walk away.
Redirect your life.
Sorry if I seem too pushy. I used to be a Life Coach for people dealing with divorce. I have a VERY strong "Fix It" attitude. Feel free to tell me to back off! It might be good practice for the rest of the butt-in-skis in your life!
Well I was right. I talked to my friend this evening and she said, after talking with my pastor, that my perspective is wrong. She didn't go into much detail. She really didn't have to. I knew what she was saying because afterall, I had to listen to pastor for 3 hours a few weeks back telling me that it is my perception that is off, that h. is really not doing anything wrong, I just perceive it wrong.
Shawn you ask why I need people's approval. I think that is something we all yearn for, whether we want to admit it or not. I mean, when we speak, don't we desire for people to agree with us? Don't we want people to value our opinions, thoughts? I'm not saying that we need/want that all the time, because that is just not possible. But overall, don't we want to be accepted by people? If no one approved of us, why/how could that lead to happiness? I think that that would be a very lonely place to be.
It is a very lonely place to be. It's a hurtful place too. To know that everyone around you, everyone you care about/love has judged you and deemed you are wrong, is devastating.
This has been a lifelong battle for me. As a child growing up, my mother and I would get into fights. I would storm off to my room and later she would come in and convince me that whatever I was feeling was wrong. The only emotion I was ever allowed to have was anger. All else was wrong. That lasted well into my adulthood.
Then I married h. He would ignore me, bash me, all the crud I have spoken about on these boards. I would take that treatment for months until I couldn't do it anymore and then I would fight back. For decades he would tell me, just like my mother, that what I was feeling was wrong.
In the past 10 years, he changed his approach. He went from telling me that my emotions were wrong, to saying that yes, I was right. But not because he believed I was right. No, it was to shut me up. His thinking was that if he just agreed with me, then I would go away and leave him alone. In public he started saying "happy wife, happy life". It infuriated me.
So now here I am, once again, not allowed to have my emotions. They are wrong. I am wrong. My perspective is wrong. It isn't that h. is doing anything wrong. It wasn't that my mom was doing anything wrong. I was the one who was wrong. It's my perspective that is off.
It is very difficult to live with family/friends who won't listen, who judge you by what they deem is right. It's hard to live with the realization that you don't have anyone's support. If I try to explain how I feel, it's all for not, so why bother? I have to shove my thoughts, feelings, emotions aside cause no one is going to listen to me, no one is going to give them a second thought. Do you know how lonely being insignificant is?
I wish I didn't have feelngs. Maybe it wouldn't hurt so much. I wish I could be this robot that they all want. Program me to be whatever you want, how you want me, in the way you want me and then everyone will be happy.
You aren't being pushy. But from my perspective - which is always wrong - the only way I see of fixing this, is to throw myself away and live, think, do, say act as they all want. I realize that sounds extreme and it is! But when you get pummelled over and over that you are wrong, that your perspective is off, your thinking is wrong, that this is all your fault, its just really hard to think otherwise.
>>You aren't being pushy. But from my perspective - which is always wrong - the only way I see of fixing this, is to throw myself away and live, think, do, say act as they all want.>>
Actually, my perspective is...your perspective is the only one that counts. If you are surrounded by people that have no empathy or compassion, I hope you'll try to find others that will bring you joy. You do not have to listen to the opinions of those that obviously are incapable of understanding and supporting you.
I just don't understand people. I thought I did. I used to think that I was a good judge of charactor. I'm not so sure anymore. It's as tho too many people just want to shove their own thoughts, opinions, agendas down my throat without any consideration of what it is doing to me. They want to show all this love, compassion, mercy, forgivness to my h. but not to me. They are so concerned for him and yet not a single one of them have ever asked me how I feel, if I have healed from the betrayal. It's as tho they don't really care. I just don't understand that.
Plus I am the one who has done anything and everything to make this marriage work. He's done nothing and they know that. But still they ignore it and say my perception is all wrong!
I called the counselors, not him, so does that mean my perception is wrong? He told me he didn't like to kiss me, said I was a lousy kisser, so does that mean my perception is wrong? He had affairs, not me, so my perception is wrong about that? I don't get it. How can the problem be my perception when he has done all those things? What, am I supposed to be happy when he told me that I shouldn't bother him, to just make a life on my own without him? Is that a wrong perception on my part to think that he meant he didn't want to be with me? What would you think he meant? What would they?
Your pastor now has an agenda that he is going to push for what ever reason he wants.. that is that you are wrong and he is the all knowing power and he is right.. so your friend didn't stand a chance.. she can argue but she isn't going to make a dent .. he is able to turn her words around and make it seem you are wrong....I am so sorry that your friend fell for his methods of mind control.
PLease leave your church and find one that will at least listen to you. there are wonderful good ministers around who will support you and cherish you are a person. I am sorry but that man is just as sick as your H.. this man is causing you mental abuse.. you don't need that... he is SO WRONG..it is his thinking or no thinking.. he is right and no one can change his mind.. .. he is a plain man and not perfect .. he is a sinner as everyone else is.. he doesn't deserve the title pastor.. he is not a good soul. sorry but I am seeing red..
Once you step back you can see the forest you will see the trees.. life will be clearer..
when your children are having a fest cutting you down. stop and ask them to recall all the good stuff you did.. sure you were angry.. but you made a home, your children were healthy and happy.. You are letting their bad behavior that was taught them by your H.. he has treated you the same way.. and he doesn't do anything to stop them.. but you can stop the behavior.. by just asking for positive feed back ..and calling them on their bad behavior.
adding ...we all want friends to approve of what we do.. be there for us.. some times it happens that they don't approve.. my philosophy has been I will do what is best for me.. I have to live and be healthy.. so I will do what I need for me.. If friends disapprove then they are not friends but just people I know.... the saying "don't judge me until you have walked in my shoes" is one I stand by..noone knows what happens behind closed doors..
Tomorrow is a new day.. breath and please do take care of yourself,
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
This message has been edited by dancin-gal on Jun 2, 2012 11:32 AM
You know we both share the same H! You know that I totally understand what you've been through and are still going through. We could put our 2 H's together, they could look in the mirror and see a reflection of them selves. But I don't want to waste my words on your H or mine, neither are worth it!
I want to say something to you. I read all of the post to you tonight, along with yours. I can relate to what you are saying about your childhood and how it has shaped what you accept and what you have accepted in your marriage. How you feel that you need to have other's approval. We were both taught that you always try to be the nice person, don't ruffle other's feathers and then everyone will like you. I get what your saying. I remember as the oldest of 6 children, that we were taught it was unacceptable to slam doors or to show our anger and emotions to my parents, as it was disrespectful. The same in Catholic school, you were to do what you were told and show respect for others. I'm not saying that all of this is wrong, it has taught me respect and how to treat others, but at a COST!
That's how I started my marriage, be the good wife, take care of the H, if he slips up and drinks to much or makes fun of you and everyone laughs, including yourself as your embarrassed, that's what we did. IT WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO! We both were married to the same type person with NPD! I'm beginning to think their are a lot of them out there.
I am hoping that you can get to a place where you feel, only how you feel about yourself is important! You are a good person, their is only one naomi in this world and God made you to be all that you can be. You are special and you deserve respect and love from all the people that count, not the one's that don't! If you have an opinion and it's not hateful, speak up. I know you've been beat down and I understand how hard it is to pick yourself back up, but you can do it. The only approval that you need is from yourself! Not your children, especially not that PASTOR, IF HE CAN CALL HIMSELF THAT! Now I'm like Shawn & Pat, you don't deserve to be racked over the coals, your H has done enough of that and is still doing it. He just did it again this week in front of your children.
My children do the same thing to me, they are very judgmental and don't give me any credit for being the best Mother I could be under the circumstances. They have no idea the arguments that my H and I had in bed at night, with me explaining why we should be doing certain things for them, but he wouldn't agree. I should have just went and did it on my own, but he controlled the purse strings and basically me. So, when they make comments, oh we were not allowed to do this or whatever and my WH is standing there, he doesn't speak up and admit was was going on behind the scenes. They to only remember the bad, never talk about the good things that I did for them.
After reading these last posts to you, if it happens again I am going to be much more vocal in letting them know how I feel about what they are saying and I don't care if my grandchildren hear it or not. That is what has stopped me before. They will respect me more if I speak up and let them know, that things were not always as they seemed. They think their Grandpa walks on water, they also love me, but everyone jokes at my expense and guess who started it? My NPD husband, it's even hard to call him that.
I know that you have done all the work on the marriage, before the A and after and so have I. We can't make our H's do anything they don't want to and why should we? If they don't care enough to do it on their own, then it's not sincere! People with NPD aren't capable of emotions or empathy. I learned that again today when I was trying to get these darn pictures put back into albums. It's the hardest thing I've had to do, as I see him smiling while having the A. I see our wedding pictures and it makes me sick to my stomach. Does he show understanding, NO, he tells me to just throw them all in a plastic bin and do it when it doesn't bother me so much. Isn't it always going to bother me, is what I said to him. He just doesn't get it.
Naomi, you deserve so much more than what you are getting. Please listen to Pat, get out of that church, some of the people in there are filled with poison and you don't need that. Their are so many other church to go to. Find one and then be very careful about who you choose to be your friend. Find the ones that will accept the caring, compassionate, Naomi, unconditionally! That's a true friend and who will feel so much better. You don't need anyone to make you feel good about yourself, just be You! God made you and He created someone that He is proud of, you just have to BELIEVE! We all on HH sure believe in you.
My h. went to my daughter and told her what preceeded my rantings - his bad treatment of me. Of course, the reason why he went to her was because I said something to him. He would not have thought of that on his own. No he would have let them continue to think that their mother is just plain nuts.
I did talk to my daughter about that. She said she already knew that her father had pushed me to that point. Still, I told her that it would be nice if she would talk about the good things I had done and not this crud.
My two church friends also came and apologized. They admitted that what they had said was wrong and judgemental and that they regretted doing that.
Linda, your words are very kind. I know that I am loved and accepted by the Lord. He is the only One Who has gotten me thru this. Without Him, I would probably not be here, tho that is not to say I am suicidal. I'm just saying that as beat up as I am, I know He is here and He cares. I feel very very alone, but I know I'm not.
I'm glad that at least with your prompting your H at least went to your daughter and make a point of taking some responsibility for his actions, wether he is sincere or not. I am so proud of you, that you let your daughter know that you would like her to remember the good things you've done for her and the rest of the family. Maybe she will get it, but if she doesn't, do what the others have said and stop them in their tracks when they start on you. I plan on doing the same with my family.
Your church friends coming to you was a plus also. Maybe God is leading you in the path your suppose to go and He's just doing it a little at a time, only He knows? I don't mean to keep preaching about the Lord, as I'm not the strongest christian in this world. I just know He has helped me in my worst times and I need Him so much right now, but can't seem to find Him? I won't give up though as He carried me before and I think He was responsible for putting so many spiritual people in my path when I was at my lowest. I feel that He is doing that for you also.
I know that you wouldn't do anything to yourself, but I am sure that you have said many times, \I just wish I wasn't here anymore on this earth, or something similar. I know in my darkest hours, I almost took a bottle of Xanax, but the thought of my children and grandchildren stopped me as I didn't want to hurt them. But I didn't care if I lived anymore or not, as I couldn't deal with the pain anymore and the stress. I know how you feel, being alone is awful and you probably wish you could just get in the car and go to a place on the beach or something similar and just be alone. I know I wish that and really nothing is stoping me, except for me to make that decision.
I hear the tiredness in your post, I sense when you don't post that your just not up to it and yes, I do worry about how your doing. When I'm at my worst, I don't post either as I just don't have the strength left in me to even try and put it in words and that's how I feel now. I'm just very tired and the reason I'm up tonight if that we got into another disagreement today, as usual he just doesn't understand the pain he caused me. It's so darn frustrating to me. He always says the wrong thing, then gets angry because I call him on it and then has the nerve to ask me, "Well what should I say then?" Like I'm going to tell him how he should feel, I don't think so.
Anyway, I'm depressing myself and you also and that wasn't the point of my post to you. I just wanted to thank you for what you said about me, that was very kind of you. I do hope that something I said was of some comfort to you. None of these choices after so many years are easy, if we were only younger it would be so much easier to do.
I did go to the doctor today as I still feel so sick with the shingles. I do have thrush in my mouth and she gave me a script for it and told me that it's going to be a while before I feel better. You would think that my H would take that into consideration wouldn't you, but he doesn't.
You take care of yourself, your in my prayers and I do pray that something will or someone will be of help to you soon. Just keep looking for that message from Him, He'll let you know what to do.
I understand when you say you can't seem to find the Lord. I understand that completely. There are days when I have to remind myself that even tho it doesn't feel that He is here, He really is.
There are days when I start the day and end it, feeling very much alone. But then there are days when I am overwhelmed at how He showed up. There was one day when I really needed a touch from Him. I cried and cried but still I felt alone. Later in the day a friend showed up just to give me a hug. That made me cry all the more!
Today was another day when I felt very alone. I was depressed, hurting, really bad off. And then the phone rang. It was a friend of mine asking me if I wanted to get some dinner.
Do you know the story in 2 Kings 6? It's about the king of Aram and how he went after Elisha, wanting to kill him. This king found where Elisha was staying and with his army, surrounded the city. The next morning, Elisha's servant woke up and saw the king and his army and naturally became very afraid. Now most people talk of that story because of verse 16 - "Don't be afraid. Those who are with us are more than those who are with them."
But this is the point of the story for me.. and I hope for you. Verse 17 - "Elisha prayed,'O Lord, open his (the servant's) eyes so he may see. Then the Lord opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha."
The moral of the story - God's there. He is always there. Sometimes we just have to open our eyes to see Him.
I'm praying and believing by faith that the Lord will give you those spiritual eyes, so that you can see Him all around you.
I'm glad that you understand what I am talking about, as I feel that maybe I'm not faithful enough to Him. I try and pray and I can't even focus long enough to even know what to say. I lay still and see if I get any message and I don't. I know He is carrying me, as He promised He would, but I can't feel it. I know He's here, because I do believe. Maybe I haven't reached rock bottom yet, as that's when He seemed to be there for me before.
I hear what you are saying about feeling alone. You need a friend or someone just to give you a hug and you can just feel that they care and accept you, even though you aren't fun to be around at that point. That's called a true friend. I'm sorry that today was another bad day for you, but at least that friend did call.
My H finally got in touch with the man from BAN, just like I met his wife about 3 weeks ago. He's the one that mentioned that maybe he would like to talk to him. He put it off and in one of our arguments I pointed that out. So he did call and spoke with him for about 15 minutes and he's going to meet him this coming Monday to talk to him. I am praying that something good will come from that meeting. Maybe he will understand why I need to know the truth and why what he did hurt me so much. He still doesn't get it like he should. So, maybe that is a sign from God, that He is trying to send the right person into our life to help us get through this. The gentleman did say, that they don't normally deal with couples where something has happened so many years ago. So we shall see!
I remember the story about Elisha and I get what your saying. I feel that my eyes are open, but maybe I can't see Him for the forest of problems that is blocking my view. I am trying to clear that forest of unanswered questions and lack of understanding the A to get to the other side. I guess the story of the hills would be under the same concept? I'm not sure if the Lord is trying to open my eyes or my H's eyes for one of us to see that the truth will set us free. Not sure if that makes any sense to you, but I can't get past what I don't know to open my eyes to see the Lord. I do know that He is there and I thank you for your prayers. I'm hoping that He will open my eyes to see what I need to see to be happy or else to move on?
I am always thinking about you and hoping that things will work out for you, so that you can find peace also.