OK, I know this is off topic, and I know I'm gonna get flamed over this one. But, something has been bugging me lately and I needed to express this somewhere. Lucky you... Ha. Ha.
Lately it seems like every woman I see has this finger waving, head shaking, "You Go Girl", "I'm independent" attitude. They're loud, very outgoing, always running a hundred miles a minute, curse fluently, and are just a bit bitter about everything.
Sadly, my wife is a lot like this, as are most of her friends and coworkers.
Maybe I'm just encountering all the wrong ladies, but since when did this become an attractive trait?
Whatever happened to the sweet, calm, and polite women of the world? It seems like they all turned into the "Capitol-B" overnight...
No, I'm not trying to suggest women be submissive to men, or in any way be lesser than a man. I don't like these traits in men any more than I do women. But I always treasured the "kinder, gentler" feminine side of the world.
What's wrong with being a sweet person who is nice to spend time with, instead of an annoying person I can't wait to get away from?
I guess I just don't get it...
I can't change the world, so I guess I just have to live with it. But, I don't have to like it...
You Go Boy... Hmm.. Just doesn't seem to work for me...
Funny you should bring this up Anthony, because you just described how I'm feeling. You described me. I don't like it either. It's what I'm having to do to build up my self-esteem. I think we are just trying to get strong. When we were sweet and quiet we got trampled on. When we try to become strong we look like bitches. I am trying to find the middle point myself. I want to be sweet and strong.
You know, it's really a defense mechanism more than anything. It's a 'wall' that goes up.
I was always that sweet, mild mannered, woman. Until I got burned and found myself wallowing and regretting all that niceness that I gave a man who took full advantage.
So now, I do find myself touting my 'independence' because I'm scared to death. I have to convince myself that being 'independent' is ok, because it just might HAVE TO BE ok.
Does that make sense?
I think that in this world where the 'good guys' get stepped on, it's hard to let that 'nice person' out anymore. It's that way in the business world (like, if you are helpful and never complain- YOU are the one all the work gets dumped on).
Don't lose faith. I might be finger wagging, and proud to be 'independent', but deep down, I'm just scared of getting hurt again.
Sad to say, but many of us sweet, calm, and polite women who are nice to spend time with were cheated on. Some of us became hard and bitter. Some of us became fierce and indepenent. Some just plain bitchy! There are days it is almost impossible to control who or what you will be that day! Some of us have tried to remain true to ourselves and not let this horrible thing change the real person we are. That has been one of the hardest things to do. You can't help but be changed after going through what we have gone through. I'm sure it is the same for you men out there too.
I know I have been bitter at times and most the time I have a great distain and even true hate for certain people. My sweet former self would have had a lot of trouble admitting to hate.
I think Tracie is right about fear. When it gets a good hold on us all those wonderful attributes start to show up.
So, maybe most the women you know or meet were at one time one of those sweet, calm, and polite people you long to know now. The problem is they were cheated on and are afraid to be the real person they once were.
Or... you might be looking in all the wrong places and they are truely just mean, mean, mean!!!!!!!
Sorry if I got a bit carried away!!
Lynndie (sweet today, but you never know about tomorrow!!)
Well some of you may feel you have the "you go girl" attitude but I don't feel I do and this isn't a pick up either.
Yes, I am very independant, I've had to be b/c the H was always away most of my marriage and he was even away when he was home LOL.
Yes, I can do lots of stuff on my own. I'm pretty handy too. I also like to dress up get treated kindly by a man. I don't swear and cuss, that is for sailors.
Anthony
They are out there. It is possible to be a sweet person and to treat others with respect and kindness yet be very independant and non-needy.
"Sad to say, but many of us sweet, calm, and polite women who are nice to spend time with were cheated on. Some of us became hard and bitter. Some of us became fierce and indepenent. Some just plain bitchy!"
I refuse to change the way I am based on my H trying to ruin my life with his sickness. I'm not bitter or bitchy and believe me there are plenty of other women out there that aren't either. The search is on.
This message has been edited by hurt288 on May 5, 2004 9:19 PM
I've noticed this too and while I can't speak for other women, I think it comes from a need to 'stand up and be counted' or else fade quietly into the background and get squashed. I agree with others here and have also noticed that former 'nice men' who have been burnt, are also forever changed and hardened. think it speaks of society as a whole, sadly, in that we don't treat each other very well, do we? few seem to be in it for the long haul and many feel entitled to their flights of fancy if their happiness quotient isn't being met 24/7. the legacy of divorce has some brutal after effects which affects all of society imo.
my sister was once warm and considered yet has become one of these women and yes, the finger can be pointed to a former love who didn't treat her well. the change in her was remarkable. he also left her with a huge credit card debt from his expenses which took her two years and an extra job to pay off -and he was wealthy! she treats her new man almost with contempt and have no idea why he stays.
I still have some residual anger which flares up but don't have the need to bite first before being bitten. for me, the loss of innocence after betrayal enraged me as I never wanted to become jaded. like so many here, I liked who I was before and felt I fit in yet now, doubt and insecurity has replaced serenity and safety. sometimes I find myself cynical without due cause and frankly, at moments like these I could hunt ex down and slap him lol -if only he lived nearby!
I think it happens to men and to women when we let (bad) feelings take over our lives. Maybe it's more noticeable in some women because some women are more expressive of feelings generally.
(Men who "never noticed it before" probably didn't grow up in a house with three sisters, and/or never had a wife going through menopause. Every woman has an inner witch. It's just up to her which days she gets the broom out and rides it. When it becomes a "permanent PMS" attitude, it gets old fast.)
(What a great straightman setup for WR's pictures...)
<<(Men who "never noticed it before" probably didn't grow up in a house with three sisters,>>
LOL How true! Heck, you only need one if it's the right one!
To this day, when I call my sister, I always greet her the same way: "Hi Bi*tch!". Her reply? "Hi, you little sh*t!". In my family, those are terms of endearment...
I married one of those nice, sweet, no attitude women. She had an affair too... So much for independance.
I hear what you are all saying, but I just don't equate "Sweet" with "Weak". Yes, there are women who are like "Oh my God, I broke a nail". I'm as annoyed by these little prissy types as I am the "Go Girls". But, certainly there's a middle ground somewhere.
All I'm asking is a little kindness, and some decent manners. Slow down and enjoy life, and stop spouting off the potty mouth about everything.
> you sound like a bunch of whining woman haters here.
Oh God no! I LOVE women. I think they're the most beautiful creation God put on this planet.
I apologize for the generalizations, but the only women I know are my wife and her friends/coworkers. I work out of our home, so I don't really see women in the outside world. In any case, my limited exposure seems to be with the "B" types. I guess I just start feeling like that's the only kind of woman out there.
I'm quite sure there are plenty of sweet, calm, and polite ladies out there. In a way, it's a good thing I don't know any personally, since I know my weakness for the opposite sex. Better to be annoyed and keep my distance... Ha. Ha.
> Some men are bitchy and moody.
I'm not one of them. I'm generally quiet, calm, and polite.
>>Before I leave, could I interest any of you in purchasing a nice He-Man Woman Haters Club T-shirt?<<
I could probably use two or three of'm. How much are they, anyways?
Anthony wrote >>Oh God no! I LOVE women. I think they're the most beautiful creation God put on this planet<<
Not to be too picky, but I don't think charlie was asking whether you found them attractive, Anthony. Most of us find them beautiful. The question is about whether you like them.
>>I'm quite sure there are plenty of sweet, calm, and polite ladies out there<<
"Out there", where? You mean here? On the forum? Sure there is. There are lots of that kind here. Tons. Tons and tons.
> I don't think charlie was asking whether you found
> them attractive, Anthony. Most of us find them
> beautiful.
I stand corrected... Although, beauty is much more than how physically attractive a person is. I think an "average" looking woman with an pleasant attitude is 10 times more BEAUTIFUL than some cranky super model.
> The question is about whether you like them.
Absolutely, I like women a lot. Although, sometimes my wife makes me question my sanity as to "why" I like them. Ha. Ha.
WR,
> I like whiskers and body hair and biceps
That's one of those things I'm thankful for, but can never understand. Women are graceful, soft, elegant... Men are, well, men... Rough, clumsy, crude. Oh, so attractive... Ha. Ha. In any case, I'm thankful that my wife finds something attractive about me. I don't see it or understand it, but I'm thankful...
"You Go Boy... Hmm.. Just doesn't seem to work for me... Anthony"
To
"I'm thankful that my wife finds something attractive about me. I don't see it or understand it, but I'm thankful... Anthony"
Why are you worried about whether those "you go girl" gals are out there or the sweet ones if you then say that your wife finds things attractive about you. Not sure I understand why you care whether other women work for you if your still with your wife. Okay, am I not getting something here?
OR...Are you saying that you are looking to see (just in case you might need to replace your wife) if there are others available???
It's too.......intellectual and intelligent sounding. When you're trying to stress how much you question your sanity for liking women, shouldn't it be accentuated with EMOTION somehow?
Try accentuating with a 'whoo'. Or even a 'whooo'.
Whoo Boy. Do I understand! (exclamation marks help too).
That way, we really really know how much you question your sanity for liking women. I mean, women are something else, aren't they.
I appreciated your help with the questioning of the sanity when it comes to liking women thing. Let me try it again.
"Whoooo Boy, Anthony. I heard that!".
Was that better? Do you like the "I heard that" part? I came up with that myself. Do you think it needs some capitalization for emphasis or are the italics and exclamation mark enough?
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that it's awfully nice of you to help out on the he-man woman-haters thread like this. It's kinda wild too but mostly its nice.
Have you ever watched Clifford the big red dog? Did you ever watch the episode where there is a Bartholomew, which is a parrot, that does everything the opposite of what everyone wants him to. At the end, in order for him to do the right thing, everyone has to tell him what they don't want him to do.
So just when we think your intelligent, you shock us with your non-intelligence and or the other way around... and just when we start believing you may not be a woman hater, you once again prove us wrong with those quotes up above. Have you been watching too much Clifford?
And NO that isn't the best I've got either, I know your going to ask that next.
So he must be about 10-11. Dragonball lasted with my son until he discovered James Bond a year or two later.
That led to Sean Connery.
With Steve Martin signing to become the second Inspector Clouseau, I'm going to try the Pink Panther movies with him next. I remember loving them when I was his age.
After 24 hours of pondering, I'm still not sure if that's a Good Thing(tm).
charlie wrote >>So just when we think your intelligent, you shock us with your non-intelligence<<
Try seeing it from my point of view, charlie - imagine how shocked I was to find out that you thought I was intelligent..
Chris wrote >>I'm going to try the Pink Panther movies with him next<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Concierge: Does your dog bite? Clouseau: No. Concierge: Ooowwww! I thought you said your dog does not bite! Clouseau: Zat is not my dog. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'member that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The madman Dreyfus: Clouseau you fool. Clouseau: How was I to know he was rrrobbing ze bank? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'member that - "Do you have a lee zahnce fer yer minkey?"????
Clouseau: How leong have you been a bellboy? Bellboy: Ohh.. too long monsieur Clouseau: Well, keep up the geud work and I'll see that you become a bell-MAN.
> Not sure I understand why you care whether other women
> work for you if your still with your wife.
> Are you saying that you are looking to see
WHOOO Boy... What a can of worms to open... Ha. Ha.
First, I love my wife dearly, and though I sometimes wonder why, I am completely devoted and faithful to her.
However, my wife is not really the most pleasant woman in the world to get along with. Her friends and coworkers seem to think she's the sweetest gal, but somehow that doesn't translate into our married life. She angers quickly, is almost constantly irritated with me, is not a "touchy-feely" person, and is just difficult to give and receive love from. She say's she loves me, and I truly believe she means it, but somehow it gets lost in the translation to our relationship.
So, why do I care what other women are like? Well, when it comes to those things that irritate me about my wife, I have to ask myself whether it's just her, or if that's just the way all women are. Remember, I have no experience with other women to go by. So, it's a little disheartening to see all of her friends and coworkers acting just like she does. It makes me feel like the problem is really within me, so I might as well quit my whining and learn to live with it. It's still better than living alone.
Second, as I've mentioned here several times in the past, my wife is the only woman I have ever "been" with. I am extremely "curious" about other women. It's no secret. My wife is fully aware of this. I am very much a "touchy-feely" person. I love to hug, kiss, and cuddle. I crave this closeness with a woman, and can easily give my heart to anyone who shows me a little affection. I can easily fall in love. So, I keep my distance from other women because it is very important to me to remain faithful to my wife. I know I am weak and insecure, so I avoid the temptation.
Ironically, my wife always suspected I would be the one to have an affair. Unfortunately, she was the one who ended up in bed with another man.
" I have to ask myself whether it's just her, or if that's just the way all women are."
Anthony - It isn't the way all women are. Some women are also touchy feely and very much into cuddling, kissing and closeness. I guess you just haven't had the benefit of seeing women who were like that. Quite honestly I haven't seen too many men like that either.
"So, I keep my distance from other women because it is very important to me to remain faithful to my wife. I know I am weak and insecure, so I avoid the temptation."
It is nice to know there are men out there that feel this way.
