My son and I were talking about who he wants to invite to his birthday party. Well, he named a couple of friends, and then he said "Dad."
ugh.
Such turmoil for me. I'd love to be able to give that to my son but...I just don't think it's a good idea for me, emotionally. And if I were to say yes, then my son and daughter would want him to come over for all sorts of stuff. I don't blame them. Of course they would want their father to come visit. After all, he's the "fun guy," to takes them to Chuckie Cheese on weekends and buys them candy and toys.
hmmmm. I hate to disappoint him in this way. And I hate having to be the one to say "no" in these matters. When my ex is confronted by the children as to why he doesn't live at home any more, all he says is things like "you're mother and I aren't married any more," and "it just wasn't working out between us." On the otherhand, I say that their father "decided he didn't want to be married any more." And of course my son, being older, has a pretty good understanding of adultery. My 4 yr old daugther, on the other hand, says that "Daddy has lots of 'friends.'"
let me share a story with you..daughter has a friend who's parents divorced when she was 6 yrs. old and she didn't spend anytime with both parents at any function...she met a young man and wanted to get married but couldn't cope with parents being in same room both degraded the other as she was growing up...she eloped rather than deal with parents...
she missed all the fun aspects of a wedding... regrets eloping, but didn't see what else to do... and longingly looks at other friends who's parents are divorced and have had weddings and do get along as far as children go and says why can't my parents be in the same room together and not fight...she is pulled in all directions now...
Another story which is totally unsual H had an affair...exit from marriage...W remarries... XH was very very active in childrens life they did the baseball together, he took sons to their piano lessons..he was at XW's house for birthday parties, and when santa gifts were opened..etc...he had a long standing relationship with W2 he didn't want to marry...she wanted child ---they had a child now 15 yrs old..he is very active in thats childs life...He met W3 ...married her has a child with her...
we went to a birthday party for the youngest child and both X's were there and everyone gets along because of the children involved....but he was the WS but he made children a priority in his life...as he has said he left W1 but he didn't divorce his children and has made every child happy...this is very unsusal...but it has worked for them.
Actually, the ex and I do not fight at all. We barely fought when we were together (ex is a conflict avoider, so that takes care of that).
The ex has been to only one of my son's school functions in the two years that he's been in public school. I would have no problem going to my child's event that my ex was also going to. That would be absolutely fine with me.
In fact, I would meet him at any function for the sake of the children. But after the history of emotional abuse in our marriage, let alone the infidelity, and his specifically telling me that I was NOT invited to his apartment...not even in the hallway, and his saying to me, in the middle of a very sick pregnancy "your housekeeping is sub-par performance," .... this is why I feel I have to keep my boundaries up when it comes to my home.
which is why I posted here to get all your viewpoints.
If the former H wants to host the party at his place (ha ha ha...fat chance) or even at the YMCA or Chuckie Cheese, etc., I will happily help coordinate. Of course I have no money for that, so he would have to pay. And of course he'll likey say "let's just have it at the house."
And that's still uncomfortable for me. It might always be uncomfortable.... I'm not sure.
...I still live with my HINO and I know how hard it is to deal with this emotionally every day. Some days are easier than others. I've learned how to treat him dispassionately as a "co-parent" and maybe even as an acquaintance who makes me laugh from time to time and does me the odd favour or two.
But we've never had the emotional abuse between us. He's a liar and a cheat among other things but has never been abusive or rude or difficult in that manner.
All I can say is that I know first-hand its difficult to swallow your pride and play happy-happy for the kids. Its emotionally and physically draining. I have chosen to do it for my kids happiness and well-being but not without significant cost to myself. So if it's something your willing to do for a few hours to make your son happy, I'd explain it very clearly to your kids that this is a special occasion, a birthday, and as such daddy is coming over but he won't be coming over all the time.
Ummmmm ok I am like Susan and don't have kids so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Jean I know you still hurt and there are all kinds of scars (hmmm first i put scares and realized that was wrong LOL), but honestly I don't expect your ex to say anything different to the children when describing what happened. I am definitely not in agreement of telling young kids (ie under 16) about the affair and that's why your seperated. But then that is just me and I couldn't even tell my parents that!
Ok.......back to what im trying to say here. Somebody else touched on this. THIS isn't about you or your ex its about your son. Now correct me if I am wrong but that son has two parents. I hate to say this, but its "almost" as if you are punishing ex for what he did by wanting more of an explanation for the kids, and by not inviting him to the party.
This situation is kind of difficult because the party is supposed to be in your own house. Im wondering, is there a grandparent (ie your mother, father etc) that may be willing to host the party if you do all the work. That way the ex would be there but it wouldn't be like you were entertaining him and your house is still "sacred territory" OR "germ free" as I like to call mine LOL
Otherwise, be clear with your ex that he is being invited because your son chose to have him there and that he is allowed to stay for exactly 2 hours, no more. (or whatever time frame you can handle him for - O minutes doesn't count )
<<<I am definitely not in agreement of telling young kids (ie under 16) about the affair and that's why your seperated.>>> Well, my son and daughter were with me when we discovered one of the OW in my H's bed with half of her chest hanging out of a red negligee. Complete surprise for all of us. My son needed to process that. My son is a very smart boy. Add to that the fact when I homeschooled him, part of the curriculum was the Ten Commandments. Ya can't just teach the 9, you know.... Even tho, at almost 9, we have JUST touched on the "plumbing" of sex education, he knows what adultery is as a matter of the heart.
And so, throughout the years, after my children have witnessed this, what am I to tell them? I tell them that God made marriage to be a special, beautiful love between one man and one woman and that their father decided that he didn't want to be married like this anymore. When my son got to the adultery commandment one day, he said "you mean, like what Daddy did?" and I said "yes." (I didn't make him out to be evil. As far as the other 9, I said that none of us are perfect, and we've all broken one or more at some point.) What am I going to do? I am not going to avoid teaching him about the Bible just because of what someone did. If I didn't tell him, he'd learn it in church, and would he feel comfortable presenting his questions to some stranger? I don't think so.
Anyways...
Being more than 3 years out as a single mother, most of the personal triggers for the failed marriage are gone. I really don't care who he's seeing, etc.
My son only asked once for his father to be at his birthday, and I did say "I don't know, N. I think he might want to celebrate it with you again at his place." He dropped the subject just as easily and we started talking about something else.
<<<I hate to say this, but its "almost" as if you are punishing ex for what he did by wanting more of an explanation for the kids, and by not inviting him to the party.>>> That's okay, Kid, I want to know how this situation come across to other people. However, as far as "wanting more of an explanation for the kids" goes, I've never requested that their father say one thing or another. When either child wants to know something about the reason for the divorce and they ask me, I tell them, honestly, but of course without getting into gory details. When they ask something specifically about their father, I tell them to ask their father. And they do. Hence the difference in stories. I will not sugar-coat anything for their father, nor will I emphasize it. I let my children take the lead.
<<<This situation is kind of difficult because the party is supposed to be in your own house.>>> Not really. I'd be happy to help host the party someplace else, if finances were available, of if the ex would pay for it.
<<<Im wondering, is there a grandparent (ie your mother, father etc) that may be willing to host the party if you do all the work.>>> My father is dying of cancer and my mother is in tears a lot and has huge health problems of her own. The ex's mother is dead and he's not close with his father. i gues that solves that one....
"sacred territory" -- yes, Kid, that's how I like to think of my home, too.
<<<Otherwise, be clear with your ex that he is being invited because your son chose to have him there and that he is allowed to stay for exactly 2 hours, no more.>>> Um...okay....and just how would I enforce that without things getting a little ugly?
Oh, gosh, it looks like I have my mind already made up, doesn't it? It's just that I want to give my son everything that I can.....
My mom broke down last night because of my dad, and I was in tears all the way home in the car. Anytime I felt teary-eyed regarding our marriage relationship during the marriage, my H would get this look of disdain on his face, push me away, and concentrate even more on his TV or PC--with his headphones firmly on.
I could, yes, but then my daughter would want him over here all the time, and I'm not ready to keep saying "no." With my dad terminally ill, I need to make things simpler right now.
Oh, another thing.... I don't want the ex coming to my dad's funeral--whenever that would be. If he comes, there's nothing I can do about it, but I don't want to be anywhere near him, and I don't want him to see me cry. I'm thinking I need to have him not be around during this....he would get angry and disdainful whenever I was upset during the marriage--about anything, really. And I just don't want that kind of person around me now.
With all the stress you are under...call XH and suggest Chuckie Cheese...tell him son wants him to be part of the party...Be honest about the cost, affordability cut the size of party...but include XH in the planning...
I totally understand what you are saying about X....but by including X you are being a good mom and you have left decision up to X...as to the direction of the party.
As for your dad's health, I am so sorry, I lost my dad 10 yrs ago and my mom also has had cancer 2 times (non hodgekins) and is here...chemo did work for her... the first time was 33 yrs ago and then 20 yrs ago...
Jean, do talk to XH about the possibility of a funeral and ask him to be available to watch your 4 year old...that gives you your space and daughter is OK
Okay sorry i revise my diagnosis If the kids walked in on it then you did an awesome job of explaining. I had forgotten a bit of your story. It sounds like your handling the bible and 9 of the 10 commandments with your son well.
It is HIS son's birthday. Perhaps you could suggest he pay the cost of having a party since you are unable to. Not sure how that would go over, but give it a try.
Also, hmmm how to enforce the 2 hour time limit. I would just loudly declare during the party that X has to go as he has some other committments and said he could only stay 2 hours! Let him be the one to make it sticky if its gonna be.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i am soooooo glad i didn't have kids. I feel for you right now!!!! Plus I know how you feel since i walked in on mine too. Can't imagine if i had kids with me UGH UGH!!!
I actually think I'm making a much bigger deal about this than my son is.
Can't do the Chuckie Cheese thing. And I doubt if the ex would pay for the party, as he's asking me to help him with the medical bills for the children, and I don't have the $$ for that. He just asked me this morning when he dropped off the children. Duh. Like, maybe because I am not employed right now, my car is in need of major repairs and I'm helping to take care of my terminally ill father??? Legally, the bills belong to him. I have paid for all the copays, medicine, and supplements, and had lost several days of work when my children were sick (I didn't get sick or vacation pay), without asking for any $$ from him. He's got a good job. He can pay the bills that come to him.
And does he not know that if I didn't take care of our children that he would be paying a lot more in babysitting/childcare costs alone, let alone everything else that tney need?
Okay, I'm irritated now. The man is so self-centered. Since before I was married, I knew that when I had children I was going to stay home with them full-time until they were school age, and then go to work part-time. This was discussed fully before we married and and he was in agreement with me. (Even so, even when we were together, I worked part-time as a writer when they were little.) JUST BECAUSE my former H changed his values and beliefs--or faked them all along--does not mean that I am going to change mine. HE did this....Let him feel all the consequences of his irresponsibilty and lack of remorse. If that means he's gonna work by the sweat of his brow and be "poor", oh, well. Welcome to the real world. I hope his porn and carousing is worth it to him.
I choose to be rich in my home life and in my relationships.
I would rather lose the house than be gone from my children 40-50 hours a week (add commute time). I've always said that; but I've never been late with a mortgage payment yet, thank God. I've been looking for something part-time....But I haven't put my whole heart into it because I'm looking at helping my parents during this cancer crap.
As far as "asking" the ex for anything... I don't ask him for any favors (watching the children, helping pay for a party, etc.) because I don't want to give him the opportunity to say no. If he offers, that's greate. But he seems to gloat over me asking him anything. Years and years of experience with him has given me this opinion. Believe me, I'm not being paranoid here. 3 of my sisters and some friends have also advised me to not ask him for anything. It's asking for irritation, really.
Kid, re: <<<Also, hmmm how to enforce the 2 hour time limit. I would just loudly declare during the party that X has to go as he has some other committments and said he could only stay 2 hours! Let him be the one to make it sticky if its gonna be.>>>
Hey, I LIKE that idea.... but, most likely, my son will just have another celebration w/ his father. I'll see....
My older son's birthday was in June, and birthday dinner and cake was at her place since that's where he was living. It was not real comfortable for me, but hey, it wasn't about me. At least I was invited, which I figured was about a 50-50 proposition.
My younger son's birthday is in November. He and I haven't discussed what he wants to do, but at 15, he's going to have the major say. If it includes Mom, I'll get out the mental duct tape for an evening.
Jean, boys need to know their fathers AND their mothers If you keep them apart, it will increase the attraction of his "good-time dad" and might cause you trouble when your son hits adolescence/middle school. (My stbx is the "goodtime" parent. Hmm. See a pattern here?)
Honestly, from what you've written, it seems as if you're exporting a lot of your anxiety onto a situation that could be fairly simple.
Frankly, who cares what your ex says or thinks anymore? He has only as much power to affect you as you give him.
I'm thinking about it. I know I'm putting more into this than needs to be. I'm stressed about my dad right now. Standing up to brush his teeth tires him out. And I can't go down to help him and my mom out until my transmission is fixed or I get another car (ugh)....
Just for the record, I want you to know that there are a lot of us who really do understand where you are at. Meaning, what kind of jerk your ex is. My X is was so bad that most of the child support came after I took him to court and had to give a large portion to the attorney. Add physical abuse, protection orders etc. There is no way in hell I would let that man come into my home. Not even for my kids. Medical bills? He could never understand the concept so the only way I ever got any reimbursement was again, what was left over after paying an attorney.
Now if present H and I get divorced, it will be a whole different ballgame. I'm sure we would celebrate most holidays and birthdays together and attend school functions together. Heck, we could probably go on vacations together.
But the difference between the two men is like night and day.
I think it really depends on the people, whether they can work together or not.
Sure if it can be done, it should. But a lot of times it can't.
When I was a kid, it didn't work. Up until my mother died, there was no way my parents could be in the same room with eachother. I learned to live with it and I always understood it. To this day, I don't hold it against either one of them. So one parent was at the wedding, the other wasn't. It was never because they didn't love US. It was because they didn't love EACHOTHER and too much had happened. We got two birthdays, two Christmas', two vacations. It was just the way it was.
I would guess that if you just told your son that he gets to have two birthdays from now on, one with you and one with his dad, he probably won't even give it another thought.
You are just putting yourself through hell worrying about it BECAUSE you are such a good mom and want so much to do the right thing.
It does not make you the bad guy because your X is a jerk.
<<<re: Up until my mother died, there was no way my parents could be in the same room with each other.>>>
With me, as I think I alluded to above but probably never written clearly, I can be in the same room, or same place, with my ex. That's okay. I just don't want him staying for any length of time in my HOUSE.
Hard to describe, but when you've lived with someone who was continually critical about "sub par performance" in housework, I don't want him coming in and meandering around. Even when I cleaned, in the past, I never cleaned enough.... Don't want to put that kind of pressure on myself for a party that I'm hosting alone. Kids don't care, they won't be checking out the place with "white gloves" -- they just want to have fun. That issue, plus I find his presence for any length of time is disruptive and makes me nervous. That, with being stressed about my dad...I just got more devastating news last night and didn't sleep well at all.
I'm real sorry to hear about you dad. I hope he gets better.
You and I are very much in the same type of situation with two very selfish people and I hate to say this but if my son asks for dad to be here on his birthday which is coming up, I will invite him and I will grin and bear it. The same way I've grinned and beared everything else for the sake of my children when he is around us. I think ideally I would not have it at my own home, that would certainly take some of the pressure off of you for him overstaying his welcome.
I am so sorry about your Dad...prayers are heading your way.
I also lived with the white glove test for 33 yrs and all the complaints about the house...it was and is related to a low self-esteem... insecurity. If your house was perfect your XH would have found another something to complain about...just remember the A was about him...the blaming you was his justification for doing all that he did so he wouldn't feel guilty...My answer to the criticism, was I was busy with the children...what's more important?? to me the children... to H both, now he is better, and no so critical and he helps, without pointing out all my shortcomings...
He just cleaned out my car and didn't say negative things as he would have done 3 yrs ago...and I don't feel belittled as I did in the past.
Pat is so right about WHY you were never a good enough house keeper. I've been there too. If you can stand for him to be there, try to get it in your head that even if Pat, Charlie and I came and cleaned your house with a fine tooth comb, your H would tell you it was dirty. He would say that because he knows THAT would get to you. That's all it is.
It's a lot like A's. NOTHING any of us could have done, would have stopped it. No matter how clean your house is, he will belittle you. It's not your house, it's him.
So if you hear those comments in your head, change the words to what he is really saying.
You have always been a bad housekeeper
to
I am so insecure that I have to put you down in order to make myself feel good about me.
I will venture to guess that HIS house is not near as clean as yours and he doesn't have the kids there on a daily basis.
Or he could be the other extreme, which is in itself, his own problem.
Teri
Edited to add:
When I was learning to deal with the abuse, I learned to imagine that I was carrying a big shield. When he would fire off an insult (you are a B----, you are fat, you are ---) I would imagine those hurtful comments as an arrow coming at me. Instead of letting it sink deep inside me, I would hold up my shield and MAKE them bounce off. It took some effort but it actually worked. Soon I was able to recognize the attack and keep from personalizing it.
This message has been edited by Teri2 on Sep 6, 2004 9:58 AM
Actually, my son brought up his b'day party because my daughter and I were actually talking about the the little "girl friends" that she wanted to invite--it's in 3 weeks.
Then my son wanted to talk about his party. His b'day is Nov. 27--the park idea was a nice one...but too cold for then.
The ex just asked me again for 1/2 of the money for the medical bills, but, I don't have it. I told him that I calculated that I was out about $300 for copays, medicines, supplements, and lost work (I didn't get any sick/personal time), but I didn't ask him for any extra $$ for that. I swallowed hard and managed.
I told him that it probably be a while before I get steady work again, as I am setting up a schedule to help take care of my parents. I told him that I could give him the money I was going to pay for the electricity, but I don't think the utility company would be too happy about that. I told him he may have to set up a payment plan with the medical billers (his preference is to pay them all at once, just to get the bill out of the way). I also said that when I do get steady part-time employment again, that I would not mind contributing a fair ratio for these bills.
You know what he did? He responded with an obnoxious email about "seeking custody of the children" if he finds that I've neglected them, failed to keep them in a "clean and safe environment" or failed to pay the utility bills!!! OMG.....so irritating. THIS from a man who hardly has time for his children now. THIS from a man infamous for ignoring his children while they cried (one of many examples: my 5 week old daughter nearly suffocated, in the back seat, screaming for 20 minutes with a heavy knit hat that had worked it's way down over her face... screaming, sweaty, exhausted, dark red in the face by the time I ran to the car and got her....her father had never turned around to look at her while I was in the mechanic's shop talking about our other car's repairs). A man who locked his 6yr old son out on the balcony of his apartment on the 16th floor and closing the apt door and pretending to leave the apartment for 30 or so seconds "as a joke." My son was terrified.
I haven't responded. I wrote stuff but didn't send it.
Well, I'm off to the beach with my children--the ones that I "neglect" so much....
>>A man who locked his 6yr old son out on the balcony of his apartment on the 16th floor and closing the apt door and pretending to leave the apartment for 30 or so seconds "as a joke." My son was terrified.<<
Sounds like a typical abuser to me. He is full of hot air Jean. Do you think he would honesty want the kids 24/7....LOL i would let him have them for the weekend just to laugh if I didn't think there safety was at risk. OIY he sounds like a special one! I feel for you.....Hugs
He still has a hold on you. The bills are legally his to pay and he asking you to pay half, just because he wants to pay them all at once.
First off, if the bills are legally his, it's because the court decided that was fair. In other words, it's not fair for you to pay them. In more words, they are not your problem. They are his. So why do you even consider trying to help him pay? Why do you feel that you have to defend yourself against him?
When this happens again, you tell him plain and simple, "Sorry, I can't afford it."
That's it. No explanation, no arguing, no threats. And don't think twice about it. When he tries to argue, don't say a word. Don't let his threats and his insults get to you. Hold up that shield and just let them bounce off.
After a while, when he see that he is no longer able to affect you, he will back off a lot.
Sorry you are going through this hell. You sure don't deserve it.
oops....I've repeated myself on this thread, I didn't even know it, I'm so stressed.
I told him his threats aren't working.
We had fun at the beach.
If my ex tried for custody, he'd be in SOOOOO much more debt, it'd be incredible. First, he'd have the legal costs. And he's paying several hundred dollars less in support now than he would pay for child care. Aside from all that, he'd break his children's hearts. They are happy here.
Jean
This message has been edited by Jean150 on Sep 7, 2004 12:51 PM
Thanks, everyone, for your prayers and well wishes for my father. Today he had an app't w/ his doctor, who was to tell him about the spread of his prostate/bone cancer... thoughout his pelvis, up and including his thoraxic vertabrae, and into his right lung. Reportedly, the bone cancer is the most painful kind.
I haven't spoken to either of my parents yet. My brother and/or sister were to accompany them to the appointment.
Jean. i was thinking about you this weekend and especially about your XH and the pain you are going through...Just a little hint that you need to listen to the Helen Reddy record " I AM WOMAN" I was thinking about the song and thinking about you and realized you need to make it your song also...I am woman, I am strong , I am invincible...those words got me through lots of rough times in my life they may help you too
LOL) 
