OK, I just HAD to share this one with you guys...

I was lying there in bed, alone, as usual, when I decided to get up in the middle of the night and apprehend my H at the computer.

There he was, for the third time that I have bothered to get out of bed and confront him in the last month or so, having computer sex.

I calmly told him that it was adultery and that I would not tolerate it; indeed, I was divorcing him if he kept it up.

He looked at me and said, "It's just like what YOU do on that adultery site YOU get on!"

For a second, I was actually speechless. Me.

Nell

what did he mean by that, i am totally confused?

is he referrring to this site. how bizarre.

not sure what else to say, but i can understand and relate to your distrsss
hugs
kath

Nell, dear Nell,

"when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving..." Nell, when is - enough - for you?

And as you walk you make your path Kat

I'm no longer in pain. I'm just totally numb. After awhile, with enough water under the bridge, you just give up and let go.

I'm seeking a job at a local law school that I've been wanting for three years. I'm now on the short, SHORT list, as one of three candidates, and second-tier interviews begin next week. Much depends on this.

Nell

I was thinking of you last night, wondering how you are doing.

Ya gotta admire that man's wit though!!!! We ARE an adultry site! Duh! I guess if he got it though dear Nell, I wouldn't be agreeing with beloved Kat.

Nell, after ALL you have been thtough you still love the creep uh. He is a very lucky man Nell. Just remember Nell you are worth more.

We love you Nell, we understand. I believe Nell that WHEN that job comes through for you a lot of other things will also fall into place. Change ANY change is so hard for the good or the bad it is simply so much more comfortable to keep status quo. Some one once said to me the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know. I think as our mind starts healing day by day we get our lives together again.

Meanwhile dear Nell continue to do what is best for YOU. He just may never get it and as I have learned from THIS adultry site that humor is often better than tears. Just don't tell my favorite Mr. Q that, speaking of people I love.

Much love to you Nell
El

An adultery site are we now? I guess that's one way to look at it. Hmmm.

But I know how you feel. My HINO aren't working on our marriage anymore but we still share a house and unfortunately, a computer. And I recently installed Windows XP on the thing and I don't think he's figured out how to erase his history. Yesterday I needed to go back to a site I had lost track of while doing some online shopping and what do I see on the history list? A "search" on the canada411 site. Its the phone/business directory site used in Canada.

So me, being ever nosy of course, click on it and it happened to be a "search" for a local hotel chain. Okay, then, he's up to his old tricks again.

And then a little lower down on the list -- a porn site. Oh, just charming.

I really don't care anymore if he's looking at porn or humping every woman in sight at the local hotel -- just don't use my computer!!! I can't seem to get it through his head that this is a family PC that our kids use too.

But you know, Nell, these guys are stubborn lot sometimes aren't they?

>>"It's just like what YOU do on that adultery site YOU get on!"<<

Dear Stinkin'

I'm painfully familiar with your thinkin' and it seems to me that for you, levelling the playing field is SOP (standard operating procedures). A couple of weeks ago, in a "divorce mediation" meeting, I was treated to a little of your thinkin' my own self. I explained that I should have primary custody of our two children because of my ex-wife's alcoholism (she is 3 months into her recovery). In no uncertain terms, it was explained to me (at the top of her lungs) that I was a dry drunk and that the fact that I had given up drinking (a couple of years ago) without help didn't mean much. The conclusion was that because we are both drunks joint custody was a better arrangement. The sad fact is that only she and I are the only two people on earth who know the truth and one of us ain't tellin'.

>>For a second, I was actually speechless. Me.<<

Yes, Stinkin', your thinkin' (no matter how stinkin') tends to have that effect on people. Your thinkin' may or may not be very convincin' but it will slow people down. It will introduce an element of doubt. Over and over and over again it can make people stop and ask themselves "have I lost touch with reality completely?" and it may take them awhile to confirm the facts in their own heads and eventually work there way back to the same conclusion that they had reached months or years before. And sometimes, that's all you need. Buyin' time is another critical component of your SOP. It can take people years to shake themselves loose and finally get to the point where your thinkin' doesn't have much effect.

Bart

Nell

"I'm no longer in pain. I'm just totally numb. After awhile, with enough water under the bridge, you just give up and let go."

<<<HUGS>>> I can totally relate to your feeling that your spouse is cheating on you with porn.  I dealt with that for many years and honestly I began to lose any love for him long ago.  I just didn't realize how much until we actually split up and I talked to a counselor.  She helped me confirm what Bart was explaining in other words to you.  That I wasn't the crazy one, that I had very good reasons to give him crap about what he was doing to me, that I may have seemed controlling to him because he didn't want to change or admit he had a problem and I had to fight him on it.  I realized after his affair that I WAS numb.  I remember thinking, even when we were working it all out that I didn't really want to be with him after everything he had done and after all the years that he put me through that.  I guess I (even then) just didn't really believe he would change.  He just hid it a little better but then I caught him in porn again and many lies so he never did change.  She also helped me realize that he was hiding his guilt and shame over his affairs and porn with alcohol.  I thought it was a  problem if he drank every night but he had me doubting whether I was right or not that he shouldn't do it.  He would say "I don't get drunk, it's only 2-3 beers or glasses of wine a night"  My C said that WAS a problem and that he was hiding behind it.  He was hiding behind his computer, alcohol, and he also used avoidance from me and the kids to distance himself from his guilt.  I know that fear was my biggest reason that I didn't leave him much earlier because the love I had for him was trickling away slowly for many years. 

I'm happy to see you making steps to help yourself.  I think you are very wise.  I spent too much time trying to change his nasty little habits and I didn't have any power over his addiction.  I kept believing he would change because I was fearful of making it on my own.   Hopefully you won't get in the position that I did finding out that my H had cheated our entire marriage and not having a clue until I caught him in his 1st A.  I felt he cheated with the porn and didn't realize how "right" I was.   I am so happy now that I don't have to live with that anymore.  Life with him was miserable but I didn't realize how much until we decided to divorce and we were away from each other and I spoke to a C about it all and pieced it all together.

Charlie

 

Wow, Charlie, great post!

I could relate to your not realizing just how miserable you were until you distanced yourself from the relationship. It's good to know that you are doing so well and that I am not the only one who feels soooo much better out of their marriage, even though I fought like he!! to hang on to it. Even those little twinges of guilt about how much better I'm liking life now and maybe I really shouldn't be because you know, you were supposed to be married for life and so on and so on are few and far between now. I didn't have a counselor like you for support, but had the support of family and friends that really helped me and validated my decisions.

Nell, you will find that support as well once you enforce your boundaries with your H.

Misha

"even though I fought like he!! to hang on to it."

Yep, I did that too.  Almost seems as if I begged him to go to counseling to no avail!

Charlie

Misha wrote >>Wow, Charlie, great post!<<

I agree

Bart

Bart, Charlie, and friends,

I seem to be reinventing myself within the "marriage," such as it is. We don't have sex any more, haven't had it for many months. I don't want to be intimate with him any more. I mean, sex has only been a thing of tenderness and intimacy with him maybe 15 times in 23 years. I don't get anything out of playing the pornograph, and I simply refuse to play the game.

Bart--about "leveling the playing field." I've been sucking air and thinking about THAT for a couple of days now. You really jerked my chain and rang my bells on that one. I'm still ruminating. Wow. That's the game all right.

Charlie, it's not so simple due to my physical illnesses and my need to support myself and my adult mentally retarded, autistic daughter. All depends on my being gainfully and successfully employed as a condition precedent -- with benefits.

Biding my time,
Nell

>>You really jerked my chain and rang my bells on that one<<

Glad to be of service (although I hope I didn't jerk too hard). I'm your biggest fan and so I flatter myself into thinking that I have some understanding of what you're going through. I do know that things are going to work out for you.

Nell

Check your e-mail. I sent you a message.

Charlie

This is from a Yahoo News story today about "freecycling" (giving unwanted/unused stuff away online), but the professor's comment applies directly to what you wrote.

>>"Internet communities like freecycling serve a practical and emotional purpose and the Internet lets us bring these like-minded people together quickly," said Mary Chayko, a sociology professor at the College of Saint Elizabeth in New Jersey, who started researching Internet communities the late 1990s.

Her 2002 book "Connecting: How We Form Social Bonds and Communities in the Internet Age," explored why and how people connect on the Internet.

"People who form and join online communities do so for very authentic reasons," Chayko said, "and research tells us that these groups are no less genuine than real-life bonds that are made in everyday life."<<

Some of us who do NOT deal with an alcoholic spouse also understand what Bart calls "the old switcheroo", which almost always starts with words like "oh, yeah, well what about when YOU....", followed by an imperfect analogy (or a downright absurd comparison).

Work the plan, Nell, but remember sometimes it's better to jump too soon than too late. I am often guilty of oppressing myself with all the problems and difficulties I see, then hanging my hat on THE ONE POSSIBILITY that will make everything else fall into place nicely. That may be stinkin' thinkin' too, because things seldom work out exactly the way I want.

Chris.

Thanks, dear friend, for your thoughts. I guess the reason that I'm in less of a hurry than I might otherwise be in is that I am fifty-four years old this year, and I have simply given up on Prince Charming. I love my daughter and my profession, and, though I am blessed with many friends, my best girl friends have all died young. I think of this as a long-awaited time in my life that I have set aside for writing and doing research and MAYBE getting a master's degree. I've had one book outlined for a decade now, and it's time to get with it.

In short, the life of the mind beckons me like a shining beacon on the hill, and I refuse to be depressed any more and lose any more time over a circumstance I cannot control. I live in my own contented world, and I feel quite fulfilled and complete. All I need is a bit more money, health insurance, and a beefed-up retirement plan. My marriage is an irrelevancy, by and large. This is a great comfort.

I think my husband just finally dished out too much, and I have shut down emotionally with respect to him in order to survive. It is important to me from a religious perspective, however, to be a loving person, even when he is not. I am just standing on my own turf,and when he gets out of control, I walk out the door for a few hours. Also, he now knows that I will call the police. This system is working for now.

Nell

Chris >> I am often guilty of oppressing myself with all the problems and difficulties I see, then hanging my hat on THE ONE POSSIBILITY that will make everything else fall into place nicely. That may be stinkin' thinkin' too,<<

Oh yeah. I agree. It sure is a form of stinkin thinkin. It's what almost all of us do (at least a little) and it's probably a big reason that the cycle keeps on a-going and some of us stay stuck. I'm still dealing with it after five long years. I haven't found the answer for myself - not by a long shot. But if there is a way out I'm sure it's hidden away in cliches like "you can't change anyone else you can only change yourself". It may be a worn out old expression but there's a good reason for that.

Nell >>It is important to me from a religious perspective, however, to be a loving person, even when he is not. I am just standing on my own turf<<

That's important to me too, Nell. The ongoing problem for me is "being a loving person" but without giving away my turf. I figure I'll probably always struggle with that.

Bart wrote

>>That's important to me too, Nell. The ongoing problem for me is "being a loving person" but without giving away my turf. I figure I'll probably always struggle with that. <<

Me three.

It always seems to be made unloving to enforce a boundary. (I can't tell if that voice is inside my head, or outside. Or one from outside that's been drilled in.)

That, to me, is the risk of "love for love's sake". Sometimes, it's NOT safe for me and the line has to be drawn somewhere short.

Sound familiar?

Chris.