Terrific film about infidelity by a terrific director - William Wyler. That guy can tell a story, now. He gets so many details right - I've never seen any movie that comes close. It definitely does not glorify its subject. The acting job by Walter (father of John, grandfather of Angelica) Huston makes this film a 'must see' for infidelity movie buffs. Also, the daggum film was realeased in 1936, by jiminy. [To get technical, it was probably released by MGM. "By jiminy" is just an expression used in the 1930's.]
Jesus taught that divorce is a sin except in the case if infidelity; 1 out of 7 Americans agree strongly; two thrids disagree strongly. One half of born again Christians disagree; three quarters of non-born again Christians disagree.
Rates of divorce (about 1 of 3) are similar for born again Christians, non-born again Christians, and atheists and agnostics. The similiarity is unchanged by accounting for things like (a) lower rates of cohabitation among born agains and (b) born agains who were born again but only after divorcing. Born agains are less likely to cohabit.
Among the largest Protestant groups, Pentecostals were most likely (44%) to divorce while. Presbyterians were least likely (28%). Catholics (25%) are were much less likely than Protestants (39%) to divorce.
Rates of divorce are slightly lower among college graduates (31%) than among adults without a college degree (36%).
Rates of divorce are lowest in the Northeast (28%) and highest in the South (35%) and West (38%).
Rates of divorce were measured as the proportion of adults who have been married but who have also been divorced.
Born agains were defined as those people who said they have made a personal commitment to Jesus who believed that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as born again. Being classified as born again were not dependent upon church or denominational affiliation or involvement.
The Barna Group is a "Christian market-research company". According to the Barna Group - "the ultimate aim of the firm is to partner with Christian ministries and individuals to be a catalyst in moral and spiritual transformation in the United States"
I'm going to find that Dodsworth movie. I've seen a lot of movies that deal with A's.
Check out this German film Aimee and Jaguar; about a German hausfrau married to a soldier in the party who cheats on her. The hausfrau and a Jewish woman in the undergound fall in love with each other. Intense. Especially, the ending when their affair is discovered. It is based on a true story.
Also, see East/ West with Catherine Deneuve. Both of these movies can maybe, possibly, alter ones thinking about affairs.
Thanks for the movie tips, MM. I'd watch Catherine Deneuve brushing her teeth for 90 minutes.
I agree with W&T - "Kayla, your logic is correct, and your therapist's reasoning is incorrect. As human beings we have to forecast our future in order to understand what we should do today"
At the very least, marriage counselors have an obligation to explain to victims of affairs, the symptoms they can expect over the next couple of years or so. That seems like "looking to the future to me". Why is that counselors can't even tell you that much? They shoot horses, don't they? Counselors who are so frightened by the subject of affairs that they can't talk about them, shouldn't be doing marriage counseling but then, we would have about five marriage counselors left.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, not requests for forgiveness or more promises. Baubles and words (like $12,000 rings and "that's in the past - let's look to the future") won't get the job done. Marriage counseling is the red-headed step-child of clinical psychology. Fifty years from now, marriage counselors will be horrified by the practice of their art "back in the dark ages".
...Fifty years from now, marriage counselors will be horrified by the practice of their art "back in the dark ages". ....
will there be a 'need' fifty years from now for marriage counselors??? marriage 'should' be a renegotiable contract... once every, say, year or 2 years the couple 'should' sit down and reassess their relationship...a gay couple, very close friends of mine, used to do this every year.
Marriage is not for the faint of heart... counseling needs to be done before instead of after... MHO but who would be thinking about all the pitfalls before the big day???? even, I talked about affairs before my 2nd marriage... my H knew where I stood....
Okay...I need some info about MC's from those of you who have been through the experience.
First off...it was my H who had the A. (D-Day was 8 and a half months ago.) He wants to go for counselling and everyone who knows about our situation is telling me how important it is to go for counselling right away. I am not all that interested in going right now. I am seeing a therapist to help me deal with my personal pain and anger.
Ami gave me some great information about choosing an MC. However, is it too much to expect a counsellor to put my H on the hot seat...make him accountable for his failure in the marriage? Is it too much to expect the MC to discuss the painful process that I am...and will continue to go through for months? years?? If I were to go for MC now...this is what I would want. One thing that I am not interested in doing is discussing what LEAD us to this point. At least not yet. As far as I'm concerned, any of our issues before his A have been rendered insignificant (to me) as a result of the A. These issues could have been discussed...and he chose not to address them with me (I always communicated my thoughts and feelings to him). Since he chose to have an A...I really don't care what his concerns were. In my mind it wouldn't matter how awful I was to him (which wasn't the case)...it STILL doesn't justify having an A! If this is my frame of mind...would MC be useful?
I guess I'm thinking that I would consider MC if I choose to remain in this marriage. At this point it would be a 'going forward' type of therapy by addressing the past but not dwelling on the past (the A included). Is this wishful thinking on my part?
sorry, but I am confused...your H wants to go in counseling and you already have a therapist - can he go by himself and start IC like you did? and it would appear you've already made a decision....
A MC isn't a judge. You don't plead your case so that he/she throws the book at your WS.
If you approach it that way, it won't ever work. The only way a counselor can help YOU is if YOU want to change YOU.
IC is probably best for you right now. Get yourself straightened out, then have your IC help you clarify the "terms and conditions" under which you'll stay married if that's what you choose.
Kat - H has started IC awhile ago...at my insistance (he was a complete mess because his A not only affected me but it greatly affected his work environment). His IC is basically telling him that all that I am going through is to be expected.
Others have also told me that it seems like I have already made up my mind...so why can't I just make a damn decision and move on? Instead, I continue to be completely indifferent.
Chris - my IC basically told me the same thing that you did. She doesn't think that I'm ready for MC yet...I need a clearer picture of what I want. I don't think I want an MC to be a judge (despite my earlier rant)...but I want someone who will be direct. If this marriage isn't repairable then I would like an MC to be honest about that.
If anyone doesn't mind sharing their experiences with IC's and MC's, I would like to hear about them. I honestly don't know many people who have gone for MC.
For me, MC was a damn disaster. My WS merrily lied his way through it the first six weeks; I was blamed for the poor man's need to have an affair, and I felt absolutely gutted by the entire process. It was most emphatically NOT HELPFUL to me -- or, in the long run, to my husband. Finally, after five more months of counselling hell, when I pointed out that my lying spouse was suicidal and we were making zero progress, and that I was glad that the MC had insurance, she fired us both. I made great recovery progress with two terrific IC's. My husband never darkened the door of another counselor or mental health care professional, returned to the bottle, and is on atypical antipsychotic meds prescribed by our family doctor. He continues to bump along the bottom. The marriage, too, bumps along the bottom, though there have been some good days. The affair was seven years ago now, and it no longer rules my thoughts, and merely thinking about the affair no longer stirs up tears or adrenalin inside me. It's just a fact of life, one more unpleasant experience, but not the ONLY thing that has happened to me, so I see it pretty much in the context of my entire life experience now.
If I had to do it over again, I would stay in IC, go to Retrouvaille (he lied through that, too), and pretty much do what I have done, even though the going remains pretty tough, and I despair of the marriage ever working out happily if my husband does not receive the professional help he badly needs.
but who would be thinking about all the pitfalls before the big day???? even, I talked about affairs before my 2nd marriage... my H knew where I stood.... 
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