Hi to all my fellow betrayed. I have a question based on a comment I received from a male friend who was betrayed by his wife.
I told him I was also betrayed and his comment to me was that men and women respond differently to betrayal.
So what I am wanting to know is whether this is in fact true, and if it is, in what way do we respond or feel differently.
I think (from my exchanges with people on these boards for 3+ years now) that men and women do experience infidelity differently.
Here's one big difference I see...and it's based on men's understanding of women and a little on women's disbelief.
Men "know" that love and sex are connected for our wives, and sex probably doesn't happen unless there's some loving feeling first. We "know" that the threatening part of our wives' affairs is that they must have had some loving feelings for OM.
On the other hand, some women report here that their husbands try to tell them that the A was just about sex, or that there was never love involved. (See "Question for the Men" thread to understand a little more about how men sometimes look at women and the thoughts that cross our minds...and how they evidently go too far in betrayers.) I think "no love involved" might be possible, and I think some women have a very hard time wrapping their arms around that.
I'm not going to inject the "wiring" debate here...just say that by nature and nurture, men and women deal with love and sex differently, and since affairs can have elements of both, it seems obvious that men and women generally would react differently.
Further, men who write here often expose feelings of deep shame...and don't want anyone to know about what has happened. In general, men might tell one or two people about it, if any...and women might tell far more friends and family members. That's another big difference. So what happens is the men suffer in silence, and the women end up dealing with what their friends and relatives think and the pressure they get (when they don't like what people tell them).
I'll have to get out my eleven foot pole to answer this (because I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole).
First a disclaimer: The following is a generalization and there are numerous exeptions. Not all men and women respond the same way.
The short answer is YES its different.
Chris touched on some of the reasons men and women respond differently. Men have affairs primarily for the sex and a relationship may develop later. Women fall into affairs for the emotional support first and sex follows after.
As Chris pointed out, men often feel deep shame about their wives' affairs. I remember that after learning of my wife's affair, one of my first demands was that she not tell anyone except perhaps a marriage counselor.
Men I think also focus most of their rage toward the OM. Where women tend to place most of the blame on their husbands. I'm not talking about what is right and wrong, but on the feelings.
This is an interesting topic and I look forward to reading the responses.
Jack
PS: I just saw the picture you posted in Healing under "Revenge of the cheating husband lol". You are likely to see a picture like that of a cheating wife.
This message has been edited by Jack311 on Dec 12, 2004 12:31 PM
I think men and woman do react differently. Woman tend to be more emotional, men lean more towards anger in a normal everyday sense. Add an affair in there and those feelings are ten fold.
Jack i don't think the cheating wife picture would be with a boat........more likely the family van or a box of shoes LOL
I do think that there are some differences but that there is also much that is the same.
I can’t say I agree with Jack’s assessment that woman are more angry at their spouse then the OP. Not from my personal experience and not from many of the men and woman I have met over the last 3 years. I think this issue is more from person to person rather then any difference between the sexes and on a whole many of us have to find a way to contain our rage for the OP and put into a more manageable perspective.
How ever I do feel that there is a difference when you get down to the actual act of sex between the OP and the WS. Woman process this differently then the men. I do believe that in this area pride and ownership (Ownership for lack of a better word) come in to play more heavily for then men then for the woman although woman do feel this part too. I think men feel more trespassed on in regards to the sex then woman. Men feel they are our protector and that affords them certain rights of ownership, purely on a perceptional plain, for another man to have gone THERE is an affront and they may feel a sense of failure or desecration.
Woman as has been said are more effected on the emotional end. When then had sex was it emotional, did he feel connected? How often did you say you loved her? Did you buy her gifts? Did you hold hands? Did you hug allot? The affection plays heavily in the emotional area for woman. It ties in heavily with our fantasies of love stories. This is why we find it difficult to watch people fall in love on TV or read of love blooming in a book after we have experienced our spouse’s betrayal.
While we all have problems being sexual intimate with our WS’s because in a large part due to the X-rated movies that play in our heads of our spouse and the OP I feel that here it is also more difficult for the men to overcome this aspect. Where for the woman the emotions during the sex play a heavier roll and it takes longer for us to work through this part.
I hope I have not offended anyone and have made some sense.
Well my understanding about my ex's affair (which makes sense to me since he wouldn't do these things with me either) is that there was no affection. It was a purely physical, raw sexual encounter. She walked in the door, they barely made it to the bedroom and then she left.
Of course I could be way of base here, but I assume that most affairs are like this. Its not the casual, relaxing, making love to your lover......your in a hurry, there are other places you need to be so you squeeze them in. And its just raw sex.....
Thanks Chris and Jack for talking about how many men are in affairs for the sex...That's what my H says...that it was all about sex for him..I have a hard time believing it because he spent a lot of time with her other than when they were having sex...I feel like if it was just sex, why didn't he just do her and come home?, but he says that time was him working on getting the sex and keeping it going...as my mc says "the grease" to keep her putting out...
Still hard for me to believe that someone would go to that much trouble to have sex with an average looking, alcoholic woman when they have a wife at home who never turned them down...What is the thrill of having another woman besides the spouse? (I mean of course I know that sex with someone knew is exciting - just still can't believe the thrill could be worth the consequences! - risking marriage, health, finances etc just to have sex? when you have sex at home?)
Anyway, yeah, you can put me down as a woman who, while hurt by the aspect of them having sex, is way more pained by the amount of time they spent together, the huge number of cell-phone calls (they saw eachother at work, after work, etc...why did they have to talk on the phone too? couldn't they get enough of eachother? H says most of it was planning when they were going to meet, etc and more "grease")...H equates their relationship to what a series of visits to the same prosititute is probably like, but when I think of the time they spent together, it doesn't seem like that to me...
(1) generalizations can be misleading (2) In their responses to affairs, women and men are far more alike than different. Women and men respond similarly in many ways.
... but women and men are not identical.
A wife cannot unknowingly raise a child conceived when her husband impregnated another woman during an affair. The same is not true of a husband. Therefore, husbands could feel more "possessive" about wives. Whether the biological difference leads to any important differences in the way that men and women respond to affairs is largely unknown.
Divorce is more common when women have affairs. The reason is unknown. It is not clear whether women who have affairs divorce their husband more frequently or men divorce wives who have had an affair more frequently. In practice, it could be almost impossible to tell the difference. Whether or not an affair is involved women are twice as likely to initiate a legal divorce than men. It is not know whether women who initiate divorce feel more strongly about divorcing their husbands than vice versa. In practice, it could be almost impossible to tell the difference.
Some have suggested that if a woman has an affair, she is more likely to divorce because she is more likely to have emotionally "left the marriage" before beginning the affair (men cheat for mere sex whereas women cheat for more profound reasons).
It isn't clear whether unfaithful women and unfaithful men respond differently to the discovery of their affairs. It isn't known whether unfaithful women tend to be more (or less) remorseful, empathetic, or angry.
It isn't clear whether betrayed women and betrayed men respond differently to the discovery of their partner's affairs. It isn't clear whether women may be more (or less) skilled at rebuilding a marriage after discovery. Betrayed women could be more tolerant, less ashamed, and less angry.
The differences between men and women in the response to affairs are dwarfed by the similarities.
Pride and ownership don't have anything to do with it in my experience.
Men in long-term marriages are generally happier and healthier than men who aren't, and our wives are our primary emotional support system. (That old crud about "behind every successful man is a good woman" turns out to be more true than false.) When confronted with a love affair involving our wives, we knew our very well-being was threatened because our wives' love and support was being withdrawn from us.
It's fear, plain and simple. Fear of starting over at 40 or 45. Fear of losing everything I've worked for to this point in life. Fear of losing the kids...because few men want to make mom look bad in their childrens' eyes, many men just move out and make it look like they're the problem (I didn't). Fear of spending the rest of my life alone.
Every man I know who was divorced around my age (and it turns out I know a lot more of 'em than I thought) says the same thing. Men go through a long emotional slump when divorced at midlife after a 20-year marriage; I think that's why I've found so many of them willing to talk to me. They understand my loss.
Chris.
ps Edited to add (in light of Bart's remarks)
Cheating by a woman at any point in the marriage raises the question in her husband's mind whether the kids are, in fact, his biological offspring. That's an emotional twist that women who've been betrayed do not face. Women sometimes have to fact their H fathering someone else's child, though. Similar, but different, torture.
This message has been edited by chris924 on Dec 12, 2004 3:45 PM
Very interesting thread here, reading through some of the responses particularly the aspect of men seeing the W affair as a loss of her support to him and of course the risk that has it happened before therefore are the kids mine?
It got me to thinking about an essay I had to do last year for my Gender Studies. I chose to look at the depiction of woman and men in medieval times. Viz to be a 'real man' was to be honourable, chivalrous and brave. Any man who did not practice and adhere to the 'code' was unworthy and without honour, and could be dispatched without further regard. Woman were revered, a 'pure and chaste' woman, always the prize. Her virgin state unequivocally accepted, woman priding themselves upon such a 'gift' to bestow upon the worthy man. Upon marriage a man, was sure no one else had 'possessed' what was by right, his prize. The fidelity and faithfulness of the wife would be guarded at all times, protected above all else. The question is, while the men were away fighting in the Crusades, what was really being protected was the purity of the lineage.
It just got me thinking that maybe the reason why men and woman react differently is not so much due to the 'wiring' but to the generations of 'programming'.
A husband sees the OM as stealing his 'property' A wife sees the OW as stealing her 'protector'
Just a thought or two.
Jean
This message has been edited by jeanniejake on Dec 12, 2004 5:12 PM
Thanks to all who responded so far. I know it is true that men and women differ in so many areas, but we all get hurt, we all suffer the repercussions of being betrayed.
So here is another one I will throw out to you......
Do men and women both react the same post affair. Do they both have insecurities and fears about being duped/cheated on again, or are men able to get out there again without looking for possible "signs" of the next woman doing what their betraying spouse had done?
Are men also more alert to signs of lying/cheating? If so for any of you have attempted dating post affair marriage breakup has your fears caused damage in any of your post affair relationships?
Just wondering if I am hypersensitive or is my behavior the norm after being cheated on. Also wondering if men suffer from this as well.
I might not even look to be in an exclusive or committed relationship anytime soon, for the exact reasons you're wondering about. My thoughts and feelings are so mixed, I need some time for them to settle out. So it'll be friends and activities for a while first.
......The question is, while the men were away fighting in the Crusades, what was really being protected was the purity of the lineage.....
and 'the purity' of that lineage enabled the fortune and property to stay in the lineage/family...there was not much "chivalry" behind it but economy ....
However, let's not be all dreamy eyed about that period... the "troubadours" were not only singing about love....
"has your fears caused damage in any of your post affair relationships?"
Well, I don't think it has for me. This guy I'm dating has had the same happen to him and we've talked about whether or not either of us has trust issues and I think we've both come to the conclusion that we are both so completely opposite of the others X's and we are very much alike. We are both are very dedicated to our children, we are both very honest with each other and think that is fundamental in a relationship, we like doing the same things together and we are both generally happy and optimistic people. I'm not sure how I met someone like him because honestly I thought I would date a bunch of jerks before I met him. I did date one other guy but saw things in him that made me realize that he may not be as good with my kids as I would like but it wasn't that I wouldn't have trusted him. I do realize where I went wrong and how the dynamics of X's family has had its toll on his personality and I will avoid that situation or anything similar to it like the plague!!!!!!!!!!! I think I just got lucky.
Chris said,
"When confronted with a love affair involving our wives, we knew our very well-being was threatened because our wives' love and support was being withdrawn from us.
It's fear, plain and simple. Fear of starting over at 40 or 45. Fear of losing everything I've worked for to this point in life."
I have felt/am feeling those exact fears since Dday. Those feelings are not at all exclusive to men.
Chris also said,
"On the other hand, some women report here that their husbands try to tell them that the A was just about sex, or that there was never love involved."
I agree with this. That is why those of us who have H's who said they "loved" the OW, find it far more painful. I know H had plenty of "just for sex" affairs, but when he allowed himself to "fall in love", that really freaked me out. Of course, now he says it wasn't love, it was just infatuation with the fantasy, but I am having a hard time letting go of the look on his face when he told me he loved her.
I think this is purely up to the two individuals involved. So many things dictate how a person reacts and tolerates different circumstances.
I know I personally have a hard time believing that my H didn't hate me most of our marriage because of the way he detached when he was away from me. He tells me this is untrue but he did have an ability to compartmentalize certain things. We concluded that he didn't commit to the marriage. He did physically but not mentally which left him the freedom to act out inappropriately behind my back. Hanging on to imature behaviors to accomodate himself.
Our belief systems and standards are so different. Through very indepth conversations we have uncovered these differences and have been able to understand each other better. I honestly don't think it would have worked out for us if H wouldn't have kept the lines of communication open. I know the few times he did clam up or started answering with,"I don't know" that it got very frustrating and set us back for awhile.
I do believe that when the opportunity of sex with the privacy of thousands of miles sepatating us appeared H had no hesitations. He did tell this person he loved her and he says it was to convince her to keep giving him sex. This was all unbelievable to me for a long long time. However a few threads here on deeper have started to convince me that maybe this is possible that he was in it for the sex. It also scares me too because I don't think he can trust himself in a situation like that and I do know how many scouting females are out there are ready and willing to make themselves available.
I was totally ashamed of what happened in our marriage after 26 years and chose to keep it to myself unless it didn't work out. I think this privacy has helped in many ways especially now when I no longer need the confort from an understanding ear (I got all of what I needed from this site). I can listen to groups talk about infidelity and not fall apart anymore. I'm just glad I don't have to live that reality down.
Time and lots of hard work has made the pain go away. However I have often mentioned if this marriage didn't work out I would have a very hard time trusting another person. I have invested so much of myself to make this relationship work, not to mention the children and grandchildren we share. I agree the fear of losing what I have worked so hard at building would be a hard pill to swallow. I have often mmentioned to H that I would have to meet someone that would understand what I went through so they would be less likely to do it to me again in this life.I would have to have an emotional connection before I could have sex. When I read comments from all the well grounded people that post here, I think to myself that they understand and would be less likely to hurt another human being in that way.
Amber
P.S. OOPS HELP MODERATORS! H was in chat earlier on open and I didn't log him out before writing this can you change it for me?
Thanks!!!!!
We don't have the administrative tools needed to change the login ID associated with a post. Thank you for pointing out and explaining your mistake to diffuse the fears or distrust this might have created.
This message has been edited by tomj76 on Dec 13, 2004 12:11 PM
Chris,
“Pride and ownership don't have anything to do with it in my experience.”
That surprises me as it had allot to do with my experience. It is not that I feel men and woman are so different in what they feel but that the degrees in some areas may have a higher or lower response and the reasons for those degrees being different may also have a dissimilar motives.
But it is always OK to disagree.
Amber
Your post is so well written. You make perfect sense.
I would like to touch on the subject of just for the sex or for the love. I believe these are the polar ends of motivation of those in an affair and that in reality there are so many places along the line that a WS can fall into. My guess is very few are at either end of the extreme. For my H the sex was payment for the ego boost he received and of course that ego boost brought feelings of love or infatuation (In my mind love in the beginning is infatuation). This took me along time to accept as he is a man and that seemed so impossible. But early on in our recovery we attend several sessions of a group couples counseling with others dealing with infidelity. A woman who had cheated made the comment, “it is all part of the package.” to which my H agreed with whole heartedly. I feel that once you cross a line you just keep crossing and then fill in with justifications and rationalizations of We were in Love and couldn’t help ourselves or it was just for sex. They repeat this thought process so much to alleviate the guilt that it becomes their reality. So love or just sex to me makes no difference. It all hurts and it is all wrong, one is no less wrong then the other.
Even though I am still married to my WS I would like to answer the question of how you are affected post affair by infidelity in regards to future relationships. Here I think there are truly no differences accept in how we as an individual process our trauma and recover from in. It is my opinion that those that have affairs have trust issues and like Amber says have a different view of what commitment means. So it is very important that we as BS’s learn to trust again otherwise we may ourselves become venerable to crossing the line.
As a reconciler I have stayed away from threads having to do with dating and starting a new relationship, but we who reconcile have to start a new relationship with someone we know darn well is capable of cheating. This is not easy and we have to learn to become venerable and trust again or it will not work well. We are terrified, it is no less difficult I think then those who enter the dating world again.
I just want to add that as I am building a new relationship with my H, I went thru a period around the 2 yr. mark ( D-day was sept 02) for about 2 1/2 months that i was totally stuck in the past ...kind of waiting for the shoe to drop...waiting for H to fail revert to his past behaviors...in essence not really trusting the changes that H has been showing...not feeling good about me...very apt to cry at the drop of a hat...emotions were very much on the surface...
MC said I was caught between the past experience and fear of the future and I needed to not worry about the future. I expect that my experience is similar to that one would have being out in the dating world...so it is about rebuilding a trust now with the FWS...and trusting the person you are dating.
I will tell you I have stopped worrying about the future...What will be will be...I hope that it will be good, but IF not I WILL BE OK, I will get thru the pain again...but I don't dwell on it any more...much better place to be right now...I am trusting the changes H has made, trusting that when he say he loves me it is the truth....
I am also going to say that my marriage is just a word...the marriage vows were broken so badly that I don't consider I have a marriage, I have a new relationship with "H" ...If he were to ask to renew vows right now I don't think I could do it yet if ever...I am working on the relationship and this is a better word for me...I use the word marriage but for me deep down it is only a legal term...and the new relationship is working for me.
By asking the “Do affairs affect men and women differently?” Diana is asking for generalizations. So with all previous generalization disclaimers I would like to add another aspect to this. And this is broad generalization:
Discovery of an affair places the marriage into crisis. Prior to having to face infidelity issues, most assume that infidelity = divorce. One of the first instincts after discovery is that the marriage will end and with divorce come fears different for men and women. This is particularly true when there are children at home.
Often the fears for women are economic. If you kick the bum out, the woman is left trying to run a household with children. Often this means the loss of the higher income (I warned you I was generalizing). Even with child support, the standard of living will be dramatically reduced. Dealing with the affair often also means the panic of how will a female BS survive without H’s paycheck.
Often for men the fear is the loss of family. Even though, she cheated, chances are she will win custody of the children (again a generalization). Not only do men face the loss of their wives but also loss of their children. Even with child visitation, the relationship takes a brutal blow.
I stayed in the house. I got custody of the under-18 kiddo. I will get (someday) a little child support.
But I wasn't any less ashamed or fearful on d-day, or on the day I filed for divorce.
I was young and unmarried when the movie "Kramer vs. Kramer" (Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep) came out (late 70's). The line that sticks to me from that movie is in the courtroom scene, when Meryl's lawyer asks Dustin if because he lost his job and his wife he was "a failure at every significant part of his life". That scene has been burned in my mind for almost 25 years now, and I kept hearing those words when divorce became inevitable.
I'm gonna be a generalization-buster too, maybe? :>)
I wasn't any LESS mad when I caught my Ex in his A on D-day. I remember sitting upstairs thinking about trying to break his nose because I had so much adrenaline running through me I felt like punching him but I was afraid I'd break my hand too. What kept me from doing it? The kids. I proceeded to kick his butt out the door instead.
Charlie
ps I did get the kids and the house, but I wasn't in the house for long. I'll move out in Janaury.
How does a person like me get to be a generation buster?
What's "without a trace" and, if you don't leave one, how can you make a path?
Here are a few generalizations that are completely untrue and unfair but that I sometimes find myself secretly (but only briefly) contemplating.
"It was just sex" is more acceptable coming from an unfaithful man than from an unfaithful woman. Men are much less likely to report "I fell in love". Infidelity for simple pleasure, to relieve boredom, or for curiosity is more shameful for women.
Women don't know how to fight fair. Women "go for the jugular" at the slightest provocation. Women can be more vicious than men are capable of imagining. Sugar and spice and all things nice? I don't ****ing think so. Compare what happens at work when (a) two men disagree, (b) two women disagree, and (c) a man and a woman disagree. Note how long the disagreement lasts in each case. Chances are, the next day, the men won't be able to remember what the argument was about. Women will remember an argument verbatim, 25 years later.
Husbands are good at apologizing. Wives don't have a clue. After the initial honeymoon phase of a marriage (about 2 years), the average wife demands from her husband at least one apology per week. The average husband offers his wife at least three apologies each week. Wives have no practice apologizing because they don't need it. Husbands have lots because they do.
The things that my wife did were much more awefuler than the things that other people's spouses did. My pain is much bigger than anyone else's.
It seems the only appropiate thing to say would be I respectfully disagree, yet I can see how you would see things the way you do.
In my marriage my husband was very good at appologising. It became the cure all, a bandade, instant now everything is better with out actually trying to change or fix what might be wrong. I as a woman did not appreciate this one bit. I would have rather he argued his case then simply agree to keep the peace. Peace at this cost was not my objective ever.
As a woman I have apologised whole heartedly on numerous occasions, for which I seemed to be ignored because his resentment never left all though the cause of it may have been forgotten. Where I do agree however is women do have very long memory, myself included, But that memory also includes the good as well as the bad.
What has worked for H and me is that we both try extremely hard to understand where the other "IS" coming from even if we don't agree.
Your response to my post was
'and 'the purity' of that lineage enabled the fortune and property to stay in the lineage/family...there was not much "chivalry" behind it but economy ....'
Exactly my point! The male seeing the female as another piece of 'property' to be owned and added to the 'family collection' I did not say the actions and behaviour were chivalrous only that they were regarded as that. Perhaps I had not made my point clear enough?
In regard to your second comment I do take exception to the implied that I am dreamy eyed about the period. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I do not believe you have any justification for the statement, I find it offensive, hurtful and uncalled for. Frankly I am surprised at you as I have followed many of your posts which I have found thought provoking and of use, moreover we share similar views on woman's rights, however in this case I feel your comment was personal and intended as some sort of put down. I cannot fathom why.
It was unnecessary and about as justified and accurate as me declaring all French people smell!
BTW I have many French friends!
Jean
I think that affairs affect each on of us differently, depending on our backgrounds, values, and sex.
I don't think you can say a man thinks or does this, or a woman thinks or does this. I believe that our emotional developement, maturity if you will, plays into how we react.
Look at the different way we reacted to finding out, shock, anger, disgust, self esteem issues, and crying. Do any of us go through these steps in a given order or for a given length of time???
In general....we can't generalize....Thats my answer to the question.
>>It seems the only appropiate thing to say would be I respectfully disagree, yet I can see how you would see things the way you do<<
Fair enough, Ami. May I say that you disagree in the most agreeable way? If we're going to disagree, we might as well be agreeable about it.
But Tom is right ... my comments were tongue in cheek although I hoped that there was some kind of weird-assed semi-truth buried in there somewhere.
>>In my marriage my husband was very good at appologising ... [in an] instant now everything is better with out actually trying to change or fix what might be wrong ... would have rather he argued his case ... Peace at this cost was not my objective ever<<
I feel the same way about "agreeing" to keep the peace. It might not be a bad idea sometimes ... there are times in a marriage (or any relationship) when it is probably best to "let it go" but it can become a Big Problem(tm) when it becomes a habit. The tricky part is figuring out when to "let it go" and when to "stand your ground" (or at least explain why you disagree). I'm not agreeing with you just to keep the peace here - in my mind, at least being "agreeable" became a Big Problem(tm) in my marriage.
jean wrote >>The male seeing the female as another piece of 'property' ... the actions and behaviour were [not] chivalrous [but] they were regarded as that<<
I suspect that in midieval times, lofty notions about chivalry were reserved for the literate - which excluded everyone except clerics and land-owning nobles. The vast majority couldn't afford a cow, let alone a horse, armour, pages, trumpets, and flags with crests. People were busy trying to figure out how to store enough food to make it through the winter.
On the other hand, it's common for a man to regard his wife as chattle if his wealth is measured by the number of head of cattle, sheep, and pigs he owns. If a guy (and his children) is going to survive in that kind of agricultural economy, he treats his livestock well.
>>all French people smell!<<
Sure but doesn't everyone wish they smelled like croissants?
.......However, let's not be all dreamy eyed about that period......
......In regard to your second comment I do take exception to the implied that I am dreamy eyed about the period. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I do not believe you have any justification for the statement, I find it offensive, hurtful and uncalled for. Frankly I am surprised at you as I have followed many of your posts which I have found thought provoking and of use, moreover we share similar views on woman's rights, however in this case I feel your comment was personal and intended as some sort of put down. I cannot fathom why.
It was unnecessary and about as justified and accurate as me declaring all French people smell!.....
In my understanding of the English language, which , btw, is a second language for me, 'let's' is a generalisation, or maybe I 'should' have used "y'all".... in no way was I trying to imply, that, you, Jean, were dreamy eyed. If you have, as you wrote, followed some of my posts I try very hard not to make judgement calls, at least in 'public'... lol
So, I apologise if I offended you, which was the further in my mind at the time.
only - I - could declare all French people smell!!!!after all it was true for some times.... ahahaha
....I have many French friends!....good for you !!!!!I do too, and Americans, Spaniards, Italians, Iraquis.... etc. etc.
I think "people" react to affairs differently. I noticed that I identified with features described about both genders, and maybe most did. Since this was the second M destroyed by infidelity for me, I went through some of the same reactions both times, some the first time that I didn't the second time, and some this time that I didn't go through the last time. The one common thread is that it hurts worse than any other life experience I've had.
The major difference for me between the two is that I still felt hope after the betrayal in the first M--not hope in the M, but hope that I could still have the M I wanted, even though it would have to be with someone else. Now that the second M went the way of the first, I no longer have that hope. Hard to get past the obvious that the problem must be me. Either I am just inherently of such a make-up as to invite betrayal or I am incapable of attracting and/or choosing a non-betrayer, so I try to avoid fantasies of a "normal" life, or maybe the life I'm living is the normal one and the one I desired is a "fairy-tale" life.
In any case, I am completely changed. Sex used to be about emotions for me, but now it is just sex. I used to long to be kissed and have affection and romance; now, those things no longer have any allure for me. I used to never be able to initiate sex; now, I can initiate sex, no problem, but I can barely tolerate being kissed. In those ways, I'm basically the opposite of what I used to be.
On the other hand, in other relationships (children, family, friends, acquaintances, strangers), I've ended up becoming more outgoing, affectionate, loving, kind, accepting, nurturing, etc., than I was previously, and all of these relationships are of better quality and more enjoyable than they were before, probably because that is where I now invest my emotions.
Beth
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