A significant number of participants on Deeper are "disengaged", separated, divorced, or very close to finishing a divorce. Some have been divorced before their present marriages.
My (our) issues are quite a bit different from those who are working to keep marriages together, and I often hesitate to ask for help or support with things that might be offensive or triggering to those who are still together. Typically I respond to others rather than posting my own questions or comments, and I try to make sure people know my point of view if I suspect they're not familiar with my story.
Yet my "wolf pack" runs here. We've gone through the end-stages together and understand each others' struggles to a degree: joint parenting, new homes, new jobs, etc.
Perhaps it's time for that new board, for those of us starting a new single life. It would be nice to have it linked to the present cluster, for I think the group I'm talking about has some hard-earned wisdom to share with the "newbies" who are still struggling with their thoughts, feelings, and decisions regarding their marriages. I also think those struggling people might appreciate a place to go to ask questions and get support for decisions to separate and/or divorce, as well as for staying together. My 2x4 is "equal opportunity".
Chris, do you feel that you can't ask your questions on this board? (Is that what you're saying?)
You offer such in-depth sharing that reaches women on their emotional level - not a lot of men can do that, and with correct spelling and grammar too - how did your wife let you get away????
Don't forget that many of us, like me, have dealt with divorce before, even if at this point in time we are dealing with infidelity in the current relationship.
I'd be happy to try to share my experiences of separation, divorce, dating etc if you have a specific question. Don't know if it would help, but happy to share nonetheless.
What's on your mind?
And don't forget that this forum is for longterm personal development and all that it encompasses.
Hi Chris. Yes, I remember at one point we were talking about a new board specifically for those who were divorced/divorcing.
If no one wants to start a brand new board, maybe we could check out existing divorce support boards and then we could move to one as a "pack" -- that way we'd at least already know each other, as we get to know others....
Perhaps it's time for that new board, for those of us starting a new single life. It would be nice to have it linked to the present cluster, for I think the group I'm talking about has some hard-earned wisdom to share with the "newbies" who are still struggling with their thoughts, feelings, and decisions regarding their marriages.
That would be great to have a 4th board, I have thought at times that I didn't belong here because I am divorced, but find it very hard to leave!
Jack, we hang out here to get our daily helpings of support and understanding.
The still-married ones have someone around, for better or for worse, every day...that's their primary focus, and I don't mind helping them maintain that focus. I was there once too.
FR, surely you know by now that I don't worry too much about triggering or offending you. (Not everyone takes it as well as you, though.)
Seriously, though, I would expect you to contribute your knowledge and experiences to a "Next Steps" kind of board. There are others similarly situated who've dealt with divorce in the past, too, and I'm sure they could offer a lot of support to those of us going through it for the first time.
Jean, I'm lazy and comfortable "here", and my "pack" knows my story. Plus, I think there's a natural evolution...I don't define myself as "victim of affair", but it is very much a part of how I look at relationships. Think back to when you were separated and how those who'd been through divorce helped you see it wasn't the end of your life...those posts from others to you helped me, too. I guess I'm saying I think there's still a place for us here. Inevitably, some will separate and divorce and need some wisdom and support from others who've walked the path already.
Oops. I was just going to post it and let this one run. Lots of folks still have to weigh in.
{>>(Not everyone takes it as well as you, though.)<< ... >> not a lot of men can do that, and with correct spelling and grammar too - how did your wife let you get away????<<
I just love when we kiss and make up.
I'd like to see a 4th, "divorce" board here. I'd be willing to join a "pack" (such a well-chosen word) moving to a pre-existing divorce board. I'd also be willing to stay put. In some ways, I prefer the third option. I think if we got the ball rolling, we could overcome our reluctance to discuss divorce-related issues. I guess that hasn't really happened yet. I tried to give Jack **** about the way he was handling his non-divorce ... but that didn't seem to fly.
I'd be excited about the possibility of (at least trying) something new. I haven't stumbled across an active divorce board yet but I haven't looked hard either. I suppose we could take a moribund divorce board and transform it. That wouldn't be hard.
I'd be willing to help set up a divorce board linked to these boards. Perhaps the biggest issue would be traffic - would there be enough? But there are several things that could be done to generate traffic. It could be a year before we would know whether it would have legs.
Jack mentioned that one of the issues that he is reluctant to raise here is the issue of dating. Some issues I've been reluctant to raise here have to do with things like how glad I am that I finally made the divorce decision and how mad I am that it took me so long. I could go on and on about personal boundaries, being decisive, and the advantages of the big D but I can't get over the feeling that would undercut other people's efforts to hang tough. I know I don't really have that kind of influence over other people's lives but it still slows me down a little.
Chris, thought I would put my 2 cdn cents in.
I am a relatively new person to these boards, and sometimes the issues I now face are not covered here. I for one would welcome a post-marriage board. I understand the struggles of those who are trying to make a marriage work after infidelity, but I'm not there any more.
I have no problem supporting any who would benefit from my experience though.
I feel a lot like Bart in that I now kick myself for staying so long and not thinking enough of myself to get out instead of trying to negotiate what obviously had been destroyed.
I think a fourth, related board would be a truly nifty idea. Myself, I'm hanging onto this marriage by a fraying thread, and it would be a nice safety net for me if things continue to fall apart. I'm slowly watching things go south as my husband moves his tools into a storage stall after 20 years in our home garage and refuses to get a job or pay the mortgage payment. Duh, is that writing I see on the wall?
I am fairly new here but I have to say that I think a divorce/divorcing board is a good idea. If I ever reached the point where I would need support for deciding to leave my spouse (or he left me) and I am heading for divorce that would be the first place I would look for support. I am currently trying to work things out with my H and even though it has not been a year for me, I do find support here as well as the healing board, but not in the same way. I benefit from this board and the wisdon of the posters, I did not realize that so many here are no longer with their WS. Whatever is decided I do not wish to lose the support I find here just because the issues are different and you are at a different phase of healing. Knowing that the other board would only be a click away (instead of a totally different forum) would be comforting to me.
I felt that need too, and set up a divorce forum a while ago, wallpaper and all. The colors were good for the topic of divorce (taupe-ish, cream, and mauve)---at least I thought they were.
Veering off topic:
Also, I have offered Tom to take these two (3? Deeper, Healing, and Divorce) forums as he wants to resign from the volunteer job.
Veering some more:
In response to that offer, he expressed concern that some people here feel 'betrayed' by my experience two years ago. I had a serious mounting crisis. I tried to get the forums into the hands of someone else (Tom had mild interest) much earilier than when they were deleted. The wait was too long and the transition was bad as Bart wrote about today in the Forum Owner thread. By the way, I'd like to hear from those folks so I understand their feelings, and so that they can better understand how that rocky transition was from my end of things. I don't foresee any reason for a repeat of that situation as long as there is a plan in sight for any volunteer forum owner who may face unexpected life changes. It does bring to mind ideas about better ways to change hands here.
Why stop now?:
I ran the forums for 2 years. That's a long time. It has been a long time for Tom. This is a time consuming volunteer job. I'd like to do it again with help from skillful moderators. At any rate, we need to remember that this place is contingent on Network54 remaining active, and also on someone committing for a period of time. Beyond that it seems necessary to have a good transition plan in place. We know what a rough one is like with no plan.
This message has been edited by WRRW on Dec 19, 2004 9:11 PM
One of the things I love about this group is the diversity of its members. As many of us are facing the most important decision of our lives, it's important to get a variety of viewpoints. On this forum we have men, women, those who have reconciled, those who are on the fence, those who are separated, and those who are divorced. We have BS and WS. We have people from around the world, from various religions or no religion at all, and various education and professional backgrounds. We also have an enormous range of Ddays, from 12 years to 12 days. I don't want to lose a single one of you. If you want to create a fourth board, great! But please don't consider leaving us for another forum!!!
Okay my two cents....or whatever its worth in Canadian these days.
I don't mind posting in deeper and open. The people here understand where I am at. However I have put alot of thought into the future and wonder at some point if the board will lost its appeal to me. I have to admit its difficult, especially at Christmas, to watch families reconciling and doing well. Now don't that that the wrong way! I just mean it hurts me because I wonder why it can't be me too.
As for a new board....hmmm as long as it is a 4th board on here I think it would be a good idea. However I am kinda happy with the status quo too.
Sorry its too early for any deep analysis by the accountant!
>>By the way, I'd like to hear from those folks so I understand their feelings, and so that they can better understand how that rocky transition was from my end of things.<<
These boards were a life saver to me when I was at the depths of pain after my second dday and you were a great part of that. The understanding and support of this group was a major part of my recovery - and you made that possible after Peggy let it go.
Lately, I've been wanting to take a break from the subject of affairs, which is why I've only read the board sporadically and rarely posted. So, if I'd been facing a major crisis like yours, I'd have wanted to break from running the board, too. What I'm trying to say is I understand your decision two years ago.
I'd like to see a fourth board for divorcees. Like some others here, my marriage seems to be hanging on by a thread and having a group like this one to fall on may well be in my future.
Since TomJ wants out, I'd like to see you take the boards back over.
I too would like to see another board on this one for divorce. I have shared a bit about dating on here but definitely have been holding back the pure excitement and happiness I have found without my X anymore and the realization of what I was dealing with for far too long. I too have not wanted to say much about how happy I really am or tell about things this person does for me that X never did because I don't want other betrayed spouses to get the idea that I think they would be better off without their WS - I don't. I do realize that it is a personal decision and everyone has a very different WS than mine. I also realize that not all WS are as selfish as mine was.
I had Arrow and Further bookmarked, but not Open; it didn't take me long to find it again.
Open was a mostly dead board until you shut down your two boards, and that's where everyone reconnected for a while until the new boards came up. To me, it was a minor inconvenience...not a betrayal.
To be open and honest, though, I probably "knew" more than everyone else since you and I had a face-to-face discussion while you were dealing with your crisis. (That pesky non-verbal communication thing....)
I would like to say that I read and use all three existing boards. It has literally been a life saver to me. As a matter of fact when I read the thread on ownership I cried because I was afraid that something I had found that was helping me deal, would be gone one day when I went to pull it up. I may not post much but I read everything. I would love to see a "divorced" section because even though I am only a few months from my D-Day part of what is so fearful for me is wondering what it would be like if I just moved on period. I've gone so far as finding other boards that did deal with the other issues. Just so I could really educate myself on all options and consequenses that other people have faced for their decisions, I want the good the bad the ugly and everything in between.
I'm just selfish like that. Ha!
Anyway, just wanted everyone to know that this forum has been the best tool I have found to help ease my pain. Please, Please, Please let it be here when I pull it up.
"Set him free. If he loves me he will come back. If not I'll hunt him down and break his legs" Then move on.
I tried finding a suitable divorce forum when that was the obvious conclusion of my marriage. Mostly, I failed in the search. So I remained here. When I think about how another board (concerning divorce) might function, I conclude that it wouldn't be much different than what goes on in the existing boards. The common thread being marital infidelity and our healing therefrom. I would like to think I might be of some use to or find some use from someone who was not divorcing. Thus, I do not think the further segregation would be necessary.
I don't like talking about these things on this board:
1. Divorce/custody "stuff".
2. Finding dates.
3. Forming new opposite-sex friendships and relationships.
4. Sex outside of marriage.
What those of us who are single might agree is "okay" behavior for us might be something that would trigger or offend those still married.
I have avoided directly writing about most of these topics (other than in private chats), even though they are of great interest and importance to me right now.
(I can't believe I'm the one who's so worried about the feelings of other participants...)
There is now a thread on Open which addresses a post made by Max elsewhere on this board about one of "those" topics. That is exactly why I don't want to talk openly on this board about the list of four things I gave.
Single people (especially divorced-after-trying-for-a-long-time-to-make-marriage-work single people) look at the world a lot differently than those who are still in marriages that are working at some, many, most, or all levels. Those of us who are living single after infidelity, struggle, and divorce understand it; those of you who aren't (or haven't), don't understand the transformation of outlook.
Also, since God has never been particularly clear about which one of the more than 1,000 brands of Christianity (or other religions, for that matter) "owns" the Bible and its interpretation, I would prefer to exclude "preaching" (which I define as offering specific chapter and verse scriptural interpretations) from these forums. I think it's okay to offer personal testimony or experience (this passage or these words helped me), but after that, encourage everyone to make up his or her own mind after reading for him/herself.
The most effective posts are the ones where someone says "this worked for me" or "this DIDN'T work for me". The least effective (and perhaps even unwelcome) are unsolicited advice nominally based in Scripture.
It looks like an opinion to me. After all, there is a big heading preceeding the post saying "My Perspective", and there is no "chapter verse" quotations given.
That's true. There are two reasons for this. First I didn't get involved in the thread until there were already 15 posts. I only responded to posts at the bottom of the thread. In addition, I've addressed your question on "Forum Owner - Update"
In case you didn't read that post, there is a board coming soon.
However, it will not be a place where people are sharing their new exploits as singles.
Tom
This message has been edited by tomj76 on Dec 21, 2004 7:37 PM
<<It won't be a place to share sexual exploits in gratuitous, offensive, or graphic form.>> I dont think the intent of the request is to use the forum to brag about our latest sexual conquests. But for many of us, this is a strange new world.
Prior to my separation, I had not been out on a date (other than with STBX) in over 20 years. I think I'm more nervous (and clueless) now than when I was a teen.
I think part of the Divorced forum will include discussions about what to expect, advice, rules for dating in the 21st Century, ect.
The best thing about this place is that its a safe place to talk and even ask dumb questions. I hope that same environment carries over to a Divorce Board.
Some folks here have read countless forum related e-mails and threads over the course of years. Some have read threads and posts on the moderator's forum. Some of us have experiences with forums and countless members. Some folks have serious concerns based on long-term observations.
What I'm saying to your 'senseless blather' comment which you deleted, is that there is far more complexity and history going on here than ya'll might be aware of.
There's a whole lot more to being divorced than finding or having sex.
Some of us are still raising our kids, choosing new living arrangements, maintaining a household as a single parent, finding or keeping jobs through the upheaval, dealing with petty or vindictive ex-spouses and/or their controlling nature.
And, as Jack mentioned, I have no idea where middle-aged people go to meet new friends or what to do on a date nowadays. Most of us divorced folks who participate on Deeper actively hung in our marriages longer than we should have BECAUSE WE WANTED TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN A PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP. Now we've all lost that, and we will naturally look for it again. Those who find it might wish to share their good fortune, or their issues.
The more I think about it, the less input I think you should have in running a forum for divorced folks, Tom. Your sole expressed concern...no bragging about sexual exploits... betrays such cluelessness and borders on contempt and disrespect for people you've been dealing with for years.
Tom said<<It won't be a place to share sexual exploits in gratuitous, offensive, or graphic form.>>
I may be out of line even responding to this...
I have only been on this site for a little over a month...and in that short time (and in getting to know some of the people on the boards)...I would be hard pressed to believe that any of them would conduct themselves in such an inappropriate manner. I've yet to read anything from anyone that graphically describes their sexual capers with their spouses or with the OP. It seems to me that the people who want the addition to this site, are the same people who continuously give their time to us newbies and offer their words of support. Shouldn't they be allowed to graduate to another forum of support...that still has its roots in this group?
Sorry...I just thought that the comment sounded a little condescending...especially since it is directed at people on this board whose advice I value.
This message has been edited by KJR2 on Dec 22, 2004 12:30 AM
I have heard from many that some D board are full of >>>> sexual exploits in gratuitous, offensive, or graphic form.>>
that is why I haven't gone and found one..wouldn't feel comfortable there...when he opens the D board it won't only be us, the ones that are here that will be using it..outsiders will come in and who knows how that will turn out...Tom is just looking out for us D single people as he has looked out for all of us already!
when the 4th board ever does open...I know Tom will make sure that all are safe! and I will be able to enjoy going to a D site!
The policies have not yet been established, but that is just one of those being considered. Jo has it right, it was just something that I've seen on other boards and wanted to call out right away. It wasn't a suggestion that this would be a problem for our present membership.
Participation, as always, is optional. People have asked for the forum and it was planned for some time now. We will try to be as responsive as possible in defining the policy and assigning moderators. The suggestion, if it can be implemented, would be interesting. I don't know of any divorce board that advertises that it is more sensitive because it's moderators are also divorced, although it would be hard to believe that there are not at least a couple of divorced people moderating forums discussing divorce.
Once we have a policy, the new board will be up and running.
This message has been edited by tomj76 on Dec 22, 2004 6:10 AM
If that new board stays within 'The Healing Heart'...then I'm assuming the divorce board would be for divorced individuals who also dealt with an affair during their marriage.
<<Outsiders will come in and who knows how that will turn out>> I would think that the current members would set a precident (along with policy rules for the newbies). I have been on other infidelity sites...and I didn't necessarily like the 'tone' of the input from the members. This site is entirely different...anyone who is crass tends to stand out and get their knuckles rapped for not being more sensitive to the others on the board.
I do understand the need for certain rules for new members...but I still don't think it was something that the current members needed to be told.
I do not want to stand in anyone's way of having a board for divorced folks, if that is what you all feel will support you best.
As a friend of many divorced folks here, I am saddened that I would not feel welcomed there and that just because my marital status is technically "married", it does not mean that we do not have much in common and that we do not benefit from eachother's input. Would it be a case of divide and conquer, or a case of cutting off one's nose despite one's face? It is not all the clear to me. I for one, would miss all of you and have even less reason to come here. BUT, I do want you to have what supports you the most and if you feel this new board is it, then good luck to you all and I will miss you very much.
Someone made a point also about whether it would be open to all divorced folks or those strictly who became divorced due to or related to infidelity. That should be made clear.
>Someone made a point also about whether it would be open to all divorced folks or those strictly who became divorced due to or related to infidelity. That should be made clear.
