Help me dear, dear people.
I am sick to the core of my heart with fear and worry. My daughter aged 11 told her Dad last night that she wants him to leave. She told him she loves him, would come see him but she does not want to live with him, can't take seeing him everyday because of what he has done. She told him she can't trust him to not hurt her again like he has. I just want to curl up and die, how the hell do I deal with this one?
I tried so hard to make Christmas good and peaceful but outside influences made their entry. As the OW's daughter is my sons GF it was inevitible that phone calls would take place between the two houses over the holidays. GF was with us all over Christmas not my ideal but a compromise for my son. Now he is over there and when he calls my daughter hears GF younger sisters voices in the background. The girls she was friends with and now can not have any contact with. It appears I am not the only one to have triggers. Daughter feels resentful and so hurt, she understands why her brother is there and she understands why she is not, and she hates it.
H was sick to his belly when she told him how she felt, I was so angry all over again, angry because of the ignored warnings he had from so many people and so angry because until that moment last night I don't believe he accepted how much this had hurt the kids. He sees my tears, my rantings and ravings, my pain, but the kids until now have only spoken to him once about it. Now the floodgates are open, the tidal wave is sweeping me away, I am drowning.
I am sat here now and the distance between me and H is as great as it ever was. He wanders around and looks lost. That makes me so mad. He is looking sad and lost and helpless, and all I can think about is, he did this to us and to himself. I have to look out for my daughter. Can anyone help me with that? She knows everything that happened I had no choice but to tell her - to avoid another attempt by OW to hurt and maime. She knows about the A and she knows there was a baby and an abortion. More than enough for an 11 year old. She asked him last night Daddy why did you do it with Lucy, why did I have to loose my friends . I just wanted to vomit - I can feel it again in my throat now, my heart aches and my belly is making threats to erupt.
The only thing I can see to do is for us to leave, make a new life for us away from the daily hurt he seems so able to inflict upon her. My hurt is a different thing I will deal with that later she needs me now. Dear God I am such a failure. My role on this planet, as a parent is to protect my children. Look at my bad choices in life partner. He is so weak and self centred and selfish he hurts everyone he says he loves so deeply. I was supposed to choose someone strong and capable, who would protect his family above all else, I seem to have failed that as well.
I don't know what to do, moreover I don't know what I want to do, all I do know is I have to protect my daughter.
Can anyone help me with this, anyone but me I mean? I am so full of hatred towards him, hatred that burns inside me like a beacon. He says if it is what his daughter wants he will move out. That does not fill me with any fear in fact I welcome the peace I feel it would bring me but I fear for the problems it is also going to bring. I am not afraid of the 'on my own' idea but the practicalities of how I am going to work and take care of my daughter, get her to school and me to work and balance it all. I am a 150 miles from my family. Not a vast distance but far enough for them to be of limited childcare support. So my daughter has to go into before and after school care? She will hate that, she hated going to a childminder before even though she liked the lady. He makes pathetic sad choices and she has to pay for them? How much longer does this go on? It's a year now since he started the A and the same time since I 'knew' but May before he admitted it.
Sorry for venting - Had hoped my first post on Deeper would be more meaningful somehow.
Jean
Your daughter has ben privy to overwhelming information for a child her age, and she is in excrutiating pain at this time. Her world collapsed due to her father's decision and now she is lashing at the person she feels is responsible.
Dear Jean, remember who is the adult in your home. My suggestion would be family counseling for all of you. Your daughter appears to be on an emotional overload and she is looking for relief. Your family system is in turmoil, however with work and good will from everyone it can be put back together. Even if your marriage were not to survive it will be a gift your children will remember and take with them in their adult life.
Kat
Thank you. Truly, for reaching out to me.
I was out walking most of today turning it over in my mind and had thought some sort of counselling for daughter would be needed. I had not thought about the whole family, thank you for that perspective.
All this has stirred up so many issues from my own childhood (my father was a violent drunk - been sober 20 years now)it makes me ill to think my own daughter might find herself in her mid 40's facing the demons she thought were long since blown away...........
Jean
Kat is absolutely correct that counseling
is needed.
It is hard on the children. My daughter
was 11 when she discovered her father's infidelity. As hard as we tried to keep it
under wraps, when someone lives in the house
where their is turmoil, they shall be affected by it.
My heart bleeds for you. I know exactly
how you feel.
Hugs,
Melody
When life gives you a lemon, ask for tequila and salt !
I sit here and cry as I read your post. This is one of my biggest fears. If my children found out about H's affair they would be devastated. You are a good mother. You are not resposible for the choices your H made. Please do not blame yourself for any of this! I know that you feel you somehow let your children down but you didn't, your H did, and try as we might we cannot protect them for all the pitfalls in life. Too bad H didn't think about the kids beforehand, just like all WS's. Your H will have to deal with the pain that he has caused everyone in the family for the rest of his life.
While I have no answers for you, the only thing I can advise you to do is to continue to give your daughter hugs, kisses, and support. Let her talk about her feelings and discuss together what you think would be the best way to handle the issues she faces. Maybe counseling would help her. If you have not already informed the school counsler of your daughter's situation I would do so ASAP because this may affect her school work/performance and realtionships with other students. At least if they are informed as to why your daughter's behavior and attitude may change they will be better equiped to help her deal with the situation.
Jean, I feel for you. Its one of the main reasons I am keeping this sham of a marriage together -- ie to avoid the emotional turmoil it will bring to my kids. Its hard enough on me every day w/o having to deal with their heartache too.
I'm not expert at this but, as an impartial bystander, here's how I see it.
I think your daughter has taken infidelity to you and your marriage as also being infidelity to her. I know this may be difficult for her to understand but your husband is married to YOU and not to your daughter. He was unfaithful to you and as such has hurt you but that doesn't mean he was unfaithful to your daughter.
His vows to you were to foresake all others and be true to you. He broke those vows.
His vows to his children are to care for them and raise them. As long as he continues to take care of his kids emotionally and physically and financially, he is being faithful to his relationship to them.
Its a different relationship and I think alot of people forget that. I know its kind of semantics because, after all, its all somewhat connected isn't it? If he's hurt you, your kids see and feel the impact of that and they are getting hurt in the process.
But I look at it this way -- if he were being totally faithful and loving to you but ignoring his kids, would that be okay with them?
A person can be a lousy husband but a great father at the same time...
My 15 year old daughter has told me on more than one occasion that she thinks I should leave H. She has said that there's no way she would stay with her husband, if she were married, if he betrayed her the way my H betrayed me. My son has not said those things, but I think he feels the same way. They think that when we are together we are putting on an act for them. They are angry at me for not moving on with my life and getting over the depression by now. Of course they are angry at H as well. We have moments of happiness with the family, but those moments are fleeting. We used to be so close....
I agree the family counseling is something you should seriously think about. May I suggest counseling within your church if possible. Not only is the goal to keep your marriage together, but also your family. I realize at this point you don't know what it is you want so how can a child know what is best at this time.
I also think it is important to show your daughter that by being together it is not a sign of weakness on your part, but rather a true sign of courage and strength. To even try to repair this marriage shows a deep faith in marriage itself, which is a very healthy thing for your daughter to witness. It can also be an example of true humility and remorse by your husband in his taking responsibility for the wrongs he has done.
My point is there are other options besides his leaving that could possibly be beneficial to all involved in the long run.
mm, so many issues in your post, such tough times mate.
at one level you have to let this be between your daughter and her father. he has to hear her disappointment and pain. she as his daughter has a right to express this to him and he has to hear it, whether he likes it or not. this is another consequence of his actions.
also regardless of the words and pain shared between them at this time, he will always be her father and she will always be always be his daughter. therefore they in time will have to learn how to make some sort of peace with each other. their relationship has changed, her image of her dad has changed but he is still her dad, regardless. they have to work this out.
having said all that, it is soul destroying for you as a mum to sit back and watch this happen. i know i have been there.
you cannot change their relationship, that will only set you up as the 'baddy' from both sides.
but what you can do is make yourself available to your daughter to answer her questions to help her understand stuff that she should not have to face at this age. but it has happened, so you can only offer to help her understand it, in a way that an 11 yr old can. use simple words, be there for her, answer her questions where you can. if you cant, tell her "i dont know the answer to that, your dad might, you may need to ask him".
also your anger at your husband at this stage (understandably) will make you want to remove your daughter from him, rescue her from more hurt from him. but that is his job to make peace with her. tell him you are angry about the hurt he has caused to her, but he is responsible and you are not going to rescue him from his actions. tell him he has to be honest with her, even if he cant be honest with you etc. this is an odd opportunity for you and him to work together for your daughters sake. she has to be the focus of healing at this stage. make it clear to him you are not helping him, or making it better for him, but you are trying to help make it better for your daughter.
i have two experiences where i have had to do this, so i know how tough it is to be in this situation and remove myself emotionally from what is happening.
the first occassion is when my youngest child realised that his father and i separated because apart from a number of things, i had an affair. many years later he went learnt some of the truth of the divorce of his parents. as a consequence he started to doubt that his father was in fact his father. that was heartbreaking. his world was shattered. he thought he lost his dad. this was not at all true because the person i had a relationship with was a women. but i could not explain that to him because of his age. so i had to spend a lot of time with him explaining that his dad and i loved each other when we made him and we still did. but that after we had him, i did the wrong thing and thought i liked someone else. i also had to call his father to come and explain with me the situation. that was very tough cause it meant him and i had to go through all of that again. but we agreed for our sons sake we had to put our stuff aside and focus on him. slowly he understood that his mum and dad loved him, even though they couldnt live together anymore. he now is disappointed in that, but understands that. fortunately my ex husband and i have been able to remain friendly (in front of the kids) and shared the care of them, so they see us as parents who dont live together.
the other time i had to explain to my children about their father's actions which i knew would break their hearts and destroy their image of him was when he went to jail. after my ex husband and i divorced he got into a bad crew and became addicted to heroin. for a time even though we were separated i had him back in our home to go through detox and recovery. however, he slipped, did a deal and got busted for selling. he went to jail. i wrote a letter of reference to the court for him before sentencing, which his lawyer said really helped his case. i also took his mother to the lock up to bail him out, he had no one else to do this for him. anyway, because until then he would visit the kids daily i had to explain his absense. the eldest child was difficult, he thought it was kinda cool his dad got busted for dealing !!!!!! so i had to deal with that. the younger one, had no idea what was going on. fortunatly, he was sentenced to a minimum security prison which looked like a farm. so after some negotion with the ex husband i agreed to take the kids to see him. i then had to explain to the little one what had happened for his dad. i didnt mention heroin, but just said he had done a thing against the law and that part of that was he had to go this jail for a bit. i told the ex that it was his responsibility to tell the details to HIS son, not mine. i also agreed during those months to take his mother and the boys to visit with him every fortnight.
this has turned out much longer than i meant it to be, and seems to be more focused on my story than yours. however, what i am trying to say is, be clear about who is responsible for what, what you can achieve, who you should protect and how.
hope this helps and good luck with it all. my boys are now 16 and 11 so i related well.
kats if you are reading this, did i do right?? haha
hugs to you and best of luck, at the end of the day maybe all you need to do is hug your girl, that helps when thinking and talking doesnt
however i honor and respect her personal and professional opinion in my comments.
because of my own insecurities i look to kats for confirmation of my comments. she is a consumate professional and a good person, hense i ask for her confirmation in what i say.
len your advise and support would also be welcomed
JANE WROTE: "I think your daughter has taken infidelity to you and your marriage as also being infidelity to her. I know this may be difficult for her to understand but your husband is married to YOU and not to your daughter. He was unfaithful to you and as such has hurt you but that doesn't mean he was unfaithful to your daughter."
I understand the point Jane was trying to make here but as the daughter of a mother who cheated on my father when I was very young I cannot agree. The scars of what my mother did not only to my father but to my whole family and especially me are still there and always will be.
Infidelity is not just a btrayal to a spouse but also to the children and your family as a whole. It is very difficult to look at that parent in the same way ever again, just as it is hard for the BS to look at the WS in the same way ever again. Your perception of who you thought your mother/father was has been shattered. So in a sense (obviously not the same sense as the spouse) you, the child, has been betrayed as well. I can attest to that.
There is another thing to consider here, the OW had children too. Was he spending time with those children when he should have been with his own? I know the children are friends in this case so maybe he thought it was ok. But I know my children would feel cheated knowing that their father spent time with the OW's child when he had no time for them. I think that would hurt them the most if they knew, since they are always begging for his attention and not getting it. So if you look at in that way my H most certainly was unfaithful to them as well, while not in a sexual sense.
JANE WROTE: "His vows to you were to foresake all others and be true to you. He broke those vows. His vows to his children are to care for them and raise them. As long as he continues to take care of his kids emotionally and physically and financially, he is being faithful to his relationship to them."
Once children are born those vows automatically include them, in my opinion. Having an A is causing emotional trauma to the children, to the entire family. You cannot have an A and expect the children to be unaffected. It is an unfaithful act to the spouse and to the children. Had he cared and thought of the children the A would not have happened. They are the innocent victims, just as the BS is. The children feel that if Dad can cheat on Mom, how can they trust him to do what's right by them, emotionally, physically, and finacially. Their trust and faith in the WS is destroyed. He has to rebuild that trust for the children just as he has to rebuild the trust for the BS.
JANE WROTE: "Its a different relationship and I think alot of people forget that. I know its kind of semantics because, after all, its all somewhat connected isn't it? If he's hurt you, your kids see and feel the impact of that and they are getting hurt in the process."
I agree. As I said before the kids are most certainly going to feel the affects and it is all connected. There is no way that it cannot be. And since I experienced this as a child I can tell you that it impacts them much more than many of you can understand, unless you are also the child of infidelity. It will affect them for the rest of their lives, especially when it comes time for them to start having relationships. By showing the children that mom & dad can work on this together and involve the children in the process it will show them that a family can stick together and make it work. If you just give up without a fight what message are you sending them? And you have no idea how guilty the children feel, like they are some how at fault. That is why it is so important for them to get counseling. They need to understand that what Dad did was not their fault. I cannot stress that enough.
JANE WROTE: "But I look at it this way -- if he were being totally faithful and loving to you but ignoring his kids, would that be okay with them? A person can be a lousy husband but a great father at the same time..."
Of course it would not be OK to ignore the children. But they are affected nonetheless by the infidelity. And like I said, in ways you have no idea! Maybe a person can be a lousy spouse but a good parent(not great or he would not have cheated and hurt the children in the first place). But I doubt if the kids will see it that way, especially at first. Like all things, with time the children will warm back up to dad. He has to work hard at proving his loyalty to his children and to his wife, rebuilding trust and so on. But they still need to see a counselor, whether it's through their school or a family counselor.
Spirit, all I can summon up right now is thank you I am so moved by your post I can't control my emotions enough to write. It was tremondous, complete and from the heart. What a wonderful soul you are. I am honoured and can only say Thank you for sharing.
This message has been edited by jeanniejake on Dec 31, 2004 3:31 PM
sometimes the need to share experiences to help others far outways to the supposed need to privacy!. you and your daughter are so important so i guess i just needed to let you know in some way.
hugs to you both
kath
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