It is not getting better. I could go into details for pages, but the short story is: I'm miserable, upset, hurt, feeling unloved, feeling no committment from him, and have no hope that things are going to get better. I am a wreck. I don't sleep. I've gained 30 pounds in 3 months. I can't concentrate at work. He is unemployed. Spends all day on the Internet and calls people he meets online constantly. We don't have sex anymore. He is mean and emotionally abusive.
He refused couple's counseling.
This is not about the affair anymore. Although I know he is "physically" faithful to me, I feel like he checked out of the marriage a while ago. He feels no responsibility to "us" as a married couple.
So my therapist said it's time to leave. The only thing that may save this train wreck of a relationship she said is to "scare the crap out of him." Idle threats of leaving are not working. I know she's right but I just don't know what to do logistically. I'm hoping my therapist is right and my leaving will scare him into submission. But I need to be gone for at least a month for it to really sink in. A few days or a week will not be enough.
But what to do? He's unemployed and refuses to leave the house. I pay all the bills. I can't afford to pay the mortgage (which is in my name) and the rent on an apartment. I can't afford a lawyer to force him out of the house. I might be able to rent a room, but for what I can afford, it will be in a very dangerous neighborhood in the city. Something I don't want to do. I also don't want to leave my dog. We have two dogs and one is definitely "my" dog. My friend who was looking to rent out a room just got a room-mate. My parents long turned my 5 x 7 bedroom into an office/storage area. The house has no basement. I could sleep on the couch, but they will not let me bring my dog. He's still a very active labrador puppy and needs walking every day, something my H will not do. And well, the dog is my "baby" and the only friend I have right now that loves me unconditionally. I can't give him up right now when I feel like I need him the most.
I mentioned a trial separation last night to my H to see if he'd leave and move in with his parents or grandmother, as all of them have at least 1-2 spare rooms. He of course refused to leave. He suggested living in separate areas of the house. That will never work.
The only other option is to rent the vacant apartment in a house my neighbors recently bought as an investment property. The upstairs is rented, but the downstairs is still being renovated. As a favor, the neighbor will likely take less than the $650 he plans on asking for since (I hope) the rental will only be for a month or two and he can't rent it out right now so it's not like he's losing money. The problem with this is that the house is on the same block as my house. But my dog could come with me.
Well since you pay all the bills Lisa I think you need to stand your ground, put your foot down and do something more obvious than just telling him to leave. It is obvious he thinks you won't leave cause you can't......so he needs to leave. He has you between a rock and a hard place and I bet he knows it.
Three suggestions I have are:
1. Pack some clothes and other things for him and meet him at the door and tell him he is not welcome until he does x. Maybe arrange for a strong large man to stand beside you to reinforce your serious!
2. Change the locks when he goes out
3. Can you go to your parents without the dog and arrange for a friend or maybe your neighbour to look after your baby. (you could promise to go by everyday to play with the dog)
Im not sure if where you live its legal to change locks though so you might wanna check, however it can have the desired effect pretty quick.
Lots of lawyers give free consultations Lisa. Perhaps check in your area and start phoning a few of them to get some legal advice or some idea of how to proceed.
Lisa....I think you know you need to do something, its the doing that is the hardest part. I know, I have been there. My H left without any fuss though. You may realize after being out of that situation for a couple weeks that you feel so much better, almost relieved. I think you should focus on the fact that it isn't a trial, but permanent. I don't think you can change the real nature of somebody by threatening them with a divorce. He may get better for a short while.....but I think you might find the cruelty will be back.
I am really feeling for you, though I only know this tiny bit of your story. It sounds like you are really in a predicament. I don't want to be quick to offer advice, but as I sat back and let your situation sink in, a few thoughts ran through my head. Here goes...
Try to make his life difficult. I am not sure what he does at home, but if you make the money and pay the bills, don't pay the internet bill. Let him do his laundry, cook his own meals. Starve him out - don't buy groceries. If you can afford to, eat out or with friends. If you have a cell phone, disconnect the home line. If he goes anywhere, change the locks. Heck, I would be inclined to box his stuff and donate it to the Salvation Army. I'd give no warning, just do it.
I have a bit of concern regarding your therapist giving advice as such. These boards are full of advice givers and I think that is appropriate. Therapy, hopefully, is more objective. Since I don't know anything else, (how long you've been together, in therapy, since dday, etc) I am going to leave it at that.
Take care of YOU!
Tiffany
(edited for typos)
This message has been edited by CalledtoFaith on Jan 7, 2005 12:17 PM
I looked into it. While the mortgage is in my name the house is in both of our names. I can not legally change the locks on him and force him out. I could then be forced from the home and lose everything. I also could be charged with "unlawful eviction."
I'm thinking about renting out the neighbor's apt. for a while. H is leaving town for weekend to see a friend of ours. (former nun who used to run a B&B we went to a lot -- she's like a 2nd mother to him) I could move some stuff down the street to the apt.
If it looks like the situation is permanant then I can start to file papers and get him out of the house for good. If not, then I haven't lost a lot of cash on a security deposit or lost rent or signed a lease I can't get out of.
I am really sorry about the mess you find yourself in with your H. It is not fair at all.
Why don't you file for a legal seperation? In most states you would be allowed to stay in the house with the baby and he would legally have to find residence elsewhere until the divorce is final, at which point you would probably have to sell the house and split the money. You do not have to decide on divorce for up to 2 years in some states. Of course I would check this out with a lawyer and find out the laws in your state. Two years would give you plenty of time to decide what you want to do, and who knows, you may even reconcile in that time.
If you do not want to go through the hassle of a lawyer at this stage, maybe you can do what we call "smoking 'em out". That would mean you would have to take away his privelages like you would do to child. Cancel your online subscription and have your phone disconnected. if he wants to stay online he will have to pay for it. If he wants to make calls he will have to get a cell or pay to have the phone reconnected in his name and pay the bills. If he doesn't pay they will just disconnect him. In the meantime get yourself a cell phone and make sure he can't get a hold of it. Since those two things seem to be what makes him happy, and if he is not happy maybe he will leave on his own. Just some suggestions and thoughts.
No, if I file for separation, I'm the one who's going to be forced to go. I'm the "man" in our relationship as I am the only one who works, makes money and pays bills. He's the "housewife." He quit his job 6 months ago due to health reasons. His health is better but not completely better.
I don't want to go, but it is looking like I will have to.
Call Century 21 or any agent your choice and have them put a big fat sign in your front yard. The house is in your name, right? Then sell it or at least list it. List it really high for the market value. If it sells then get your own place for you and the kids that does not include room for him.
I'd try the living in separate areas of the house thing. Why not?
Insist however that if you are going to live as housemates that he has to pay part of the expenses. And if he's unemployed tell him you don't care how he gets the money -- he can go sell himself on a corner or sell his blood for all you care -- but if he wants to be roommates, then he's a real roommate.
Set some groundrules on expenses, comings and goings and who's allowed or not allowed in the house -- just like any good roommates do -- and then go for it.
If you can't separate logistically, separate in every other way.
That's what I did. I still live with my HINO. We share bills. We have protocols on who does what. He stays out of my business and I stay out of his. We can't live apart right now in body but we can do so in spirit. I'm not saying its easy -- believe me there are times when I "regress" and start taking care of him all over again -- but that doesn't last too long and so far it's worked out.
Just one thing though -- don't expect this to be some sort of "magic pill" or anything. Its not the answer. If he hasn't checked into the marriage yet, he probably won't at all in future.
I'm not a lawyer, but look into what you're rights are if you leave the house - desertion or something. It would be horrible if he got the house if you got divorced because "you left."
He can go to his parents or grandparents. That is a place he can go. You stand your ground.
Hi, I read your post and HAD to respond.
He had the affair, he is being a jerk, he is not willing to go to a marriage councillor etc.
My first response is to kick his sorry a$$ out! Why should you have to continue to pay his way in life after all he has done to you?
Why should you suffer financially after all the other suffering you have gone through by paying for a separate place of your own?
Is there something I'm not getting here? I think he would love it if you lived in separate areas of the house or if you moved out. That would give him everything he wants. He is still being financially taken care of, but he has the freedom to "play". What is he suppose to learn from this other than he can have it all?
Sorry if I seem a little bitter or angry on your behalf. You sound like a wonderful person, and he takes advantage of that. I walked away from my WS with my kids and no furniture, he is still in the house. I would definately have done things differently today.
Are you willing to sell your house? I understand your councillor has told you to move out to "scare" him, but be cautious, it just may backfire. He may enjoy it!
My big reluctance to not splitting -- honestly, it's his health. I am worried about him. He has epilepsy, juvenile diabetes and depression. If something happened to him and he got hurt, or worse, I could never live with myself and the guilt. I will forever know that my kicking him out of the house is what killed him.
Well, no one has gone anywhere yet.His parents and grandmother won't take him. So before he left for the weekend, I offered him $500 a month to leave for good. I'd give him my car that's older and paid for, and I'd have the new truck. I'd keep him on my health insurance until he got his own.
He agreed, and laughed, because he thought I was bluffing. When I wrote the check out and gave it to him and told him to take more clothes than what he had, he looked at me in disbelief. Then he left. I didn't call him. I kept busy during the weekend -- shampooing the carpets.
He came home early. Said he was sick. Asked if I missed him and I told him, no. The minute he came home he called his counselor on her cell phone and left to see her for an immediate, emergency meeting -- on a Satruday!
Surprise, surprise, he comes home and tells me, he was going to meet someone he met on the Internet this weekend. I told him that I didn't care, that the relationship is over, so he can go back if he wants. He came home early because he apparently couldn't go through with it. On the way up, it all suddenly hit him and he called the girl and told her that he couldn't see her or ever talk to her because he was married and he then spent an hour on his cell phone with his therapist freaking out.
He has agreed to couple's therapy. I said I'd go, but I am promising nothing. I told him that I appreciated him telling me the truth, but that he has a real problem and I'm tired of dealing with it. He told me that he was tired of lying all the time, but was afraid of my reaction if he told the truth. I told him if he never gives me the chance of reacting to the truth, how will he ever know? So he said, "OK, ask me anything and I'll tell you the truth now." So I did. And he did. Nothing really new -- but some missing details were filled in.
I said to him "I was always willing to work at this, but you don't give me the chance. You clearly are not happy, but you won't tell me why." And then I asked the question that I have asked a hundred times over.
What is it exactly that you want from me?
I never get an answer besides, "I don't know." This time he said, "you used to be such a caring, nurturing person, now you're not."
I told him that I changed when he cheated on me and that nobody is caring and nurturing to an ass. ("Point taken," he muttered.) Furthermore, I would like him to thank and appreciate me when I do things for him. I always thank him when he does little things for me. It's not my f-ing job to rub his feet or bring him his medicine in the morning or any other little thing I used to do when I loved him more.
"You stopped appreciating me," I told him. "You took me for granted. You threw my love and our marriage away for a one-night-stand that you didn't even enjoy."
He says he wants to "start over." I said, fine, but he has to tell the truth at all times and continue individual counseling and commit to couple's counseling. And no more "trips," even if he didn't do anything, it's still mighty wrong.
Some of you all may see me as "weak" for agreeing to this, but frankly, right now, for my life and my current situation, it's what will work best for me with the least amount of stress. He's a HINO for now (thanks Jane for that wonderful acronym). He may be promoted to husband again or he may be demoted to STBXH and then XH. We'll see. He knows this is not a permanent solution.
Interestingly enough, he just called me and today, that's right today, he got a job in a warehouse. $9.50 an hour, but that's not the point. It's steady work and it will keep him busy and off the Internet. It's amazing how easy it was for him to get a job after taking off 6 months.
Lisa...you did it!! You followed through with your word, set up your boundaries and stuck to it. No one (in their right mind) would think that what you just accomplished is anywhere near being 'weak'...in fact you demonstrated incredible strength!
Unfortunately it took for you to plant your foot firmly on the ground with your H...but look at what that accomplished: he cancelled his rendezvous with OW, he immediately sought counselling, he became open and honest with you, he wants to repair the marriage and he got a job!! Wow...that is a huge step forward!
You are absolutely right...you have to take the 'wait and see' approach. There are no guarantees. I don't know if there are ever any guarantees...but at least this is an attempt at reconciliation. If it doesn't work out, you can honestly tell yourself that you gave him a chance but it didn't work...it would certainly lessen your guilt. If it does work out...you'll be thankful that you gave him that chance. Either way...you come out feeling more confident with the end result.
I could have written most of your last post, and probably HAVE written most of that over my years here. (I stopped being appreciated and started being "expected" many years ago. I used to be a "nice guy" to my wife. Etc. Etc.)
I would suggest that you did more than "put your foot down". I think you put a boot to his behind, and I say...more power to ya, Lisa. I could never find the words or actions that would wake my STBX up, and I was afraid of raising two kids on my own.
Your attitude that "it's a start" will serve you well, I think.
Lisa; I do believe in the sanctity of marriage, and tried way beyond what most people would have done to keep my marriage together, so I definately would never think that you are being stupid.
I think if they act like undisciplined children then the "tough love" approach can be very effective, as you have demonstrated. You sounded firm in your conviction. He must have realized that you meant business. It also sounds like you have emotionally detached a bit, which will definately benefit your sanity through all of this.
I hope and pray that you find happiness regardless of how this goes.
Yup. He went to work. No problem. Got up at 5 a.m. and drove 30 minutes to the warehouse. He was asked to watch a safety video which stated that if you have one of several named medical conditions (including epilepsy) you must tell your supervisor.
Well, my H has a "it's none of your business until it becomes an issue" approach to disclosing his illness. If he's working and having no problems, then he says nothing. If he has a seizure, he tells his employer and has his doctor explain that he is taking medicine to control them.
Well, since the video said to disclose the medical decision, my H knew that was the responsible thing to do. As soon as the manager heard that he had epilesy, she told him to leave -- no questions about if he managed it, when do his seizures occur, etc.
He called the placement service that sent him there and told them. Thankfully, they seemed not to be bothered and said they'd look for something else. Hopefully, they really mean it.
Okay...deep breath...this wasn't his fault AND he was honest with them (a big change...right?) It's as though you take one step forward and two steps back...frustrating as hell!
Try to support him as best as you can (I know that might be difficult to do). I would also be pointing a finger at this placement agency...do they screen their applicants before they place them in a job? If they knew that this company doesn't hire someone with a certain medical condition...then they should be aware of the applicant's medical history. It would avoid disappointments like this. I'm also shocked that this company can get away with discriminating against employees with pre-existing medical conditions...sounds like it's a blessing that he won't be working there.
Something else will come his way...he needs to stay positive. Tell him to see is C...hopefully the C will help him to stay on track.
He's still looking for a job. Went on two more interviews. Made the first cut with one job and filled out all the tax forms and took the drug test. Now he is just waiting to hear if he starts next week. Paranoid that I am, I am worried that his epilepsy medicine will turn up in the drug test. He does not do illegal drugs, and that is what the test is for, but I wonder if other things show up in the report.
His depression is overwhelming. I was home last week for MLK day and was also out sick and I got a glimpse of what his day is like.
Get up.
Go online and instant message dozens of people. (his recent buddy list had 200 names on it.)
Sleep.
Play music and practice his DJ skills.
Go online.
Sleep.
Take medicine.
DJ
Go online.
Sleep.
Wake up hungry expecting dinner.
Ugh!
The online stuff is what is annoying me. He met his ONS stand there and has met other women in person from online (but didn't do anything physical with them.) It's crack to him and he does not recognize it.
My only hope is that once he starts working, he can't be online all day anymore. I have tried putting my foot down and saying "no more internet," but then he is an ass and refuses to look for work. Gets "sick" when he has interviews. It's a mess.
I know very well that I am enabling him, but I don't know what else to do. My life is too busy right now to deal with all the drama of getting a court order to forcibly remove him from the home. Frankly it is just easier for me and my mental health to just not give a damn about the online stuff. Does that make sense.
Anyway, I see a noticeable change in him now that it looks like he is going back to work. His problems, and why he had ONS, online affairs, etc., are very closely tied to his low self esteem and feelings of not being worthy. Say a prayer that he works soon. For everyone's sake.
Thanks for updating us...seems like a vicious circle that keeps going and going for you....I'm glad to hear that it is looking up. I truly hope he gets that job...hopefully it will make things better all around!
Keep your chin up!
Yay. But he's been a nervous little ferret about it. He goes over a million different scenarios in his mind on how he's going to get fired. He panics and flips out that he is going to forget his training. (he has to use a PDA for this job)He came home after one day and slammed the door because I wasn't home. Left three expletive-filled messages on my voice mail, turned over a chair in the dining room and hurled his keys across the room.
This morning he called me and said he forgot the camera that comes with the PDA. What does he expect me to do about it? He's 45 minutes away and I am at work? I said, just tell your boss, you'll be fine. He calls me and asks me what his password is to the PDA. I don't know what it is. He didn't tell me. He is seriously losing it. He left half of his notes at the job site.
The only thing I am doing is ignoring his temper tantrums, eventually he calms down and apologizes for his lousy behaviour. I know he is just scared of screwing up, but honestly, what can I do with this man? He's nuts!
