My FWS is working very, very hard on understanding why he had his A, helping me deal with my pain, and rebuilding our marriage. But I am very, very hurt by the fact that his A(mostly online though they met twice for sex and talked on the phone) lasted for slightly over four years. I wondered if anyone can tell me if the length of the A has any bearing on the difficulty and the length of healing time. I've been trying to find any kind of answers online and in books and haven't found any yet. At this point in our recovery, this is the major stumbling block for me despite the huge progress we are making in understand what our marital problems were prior and during the affair and why FWS had the affair. I suspect my mother's alcoholism (which was, of course, an addiction) and my husband's affair, (which may be related to his behavior which included years of drug use and alcohol consumption prior to my knowing him, and subsequent attraction to online porn prior to the affair) may be related. I just can't let go of the pain caused by the A lasting so long.
My H's affair lasted about 3 years from "first date" to the final parting - then several months of "longing" and "withdrawl"
It was difficult for me to think in terms of the sheer number of lies necessary to cover up three years worth of activity AND somehow feeling that those three years had lost everything special in them. For example, that trip to the beach now seemed wasted and the Christmas gifts tarnished. In that way, it's been very, very hard. I felt this to the extent that many items purchased during that time have either been thrown away or donated somewhere - I've even given away much of the clothes I wore during that time. That whole period of time seems bleak.
I don't know if it's harder with long term affairs - a series of ONS's would be all too easy to carry off again on any given business trip - or a large number of OW would mean he didn't need to convince himself it was anything special and both of those would hold some kind of potential threat in the recovery process.
I used to be amazed at how devistated some people were with a single ONS and I'd think "oh if only it were so easy" but as I worked through this, I realized that shattered dreams are shattered dreams and betrayal is betrayal and it's all the same pain and many of the same fears - just along different paths.
-Susan
This message has been edited by stillkickin on Feb 19, 2005 8:38 PM
Thank you for your response. Did you find that the length of the affair made you feel hopeless about the marriage succeeding? I'm very much struggling with the idea that because his A went on for so long that our marriage can't succeed. Did you have similar feelings because your H's A was long?
We'd been together a long time - nearly 20 years when the A started so it was never like "OMG, there was an affair for 70% of the time we'd been married" kind of thinking
The long term aspects mostly hit me in terms of wondering how I could ever forgive him for something that lasted so long and as I've posted the thousands and thousands of lies it must have taken to support it.
Leaving the marriage - even though we separated for 5 months immediately after dday - wasn't something I thought about much. I wanted my marriage and I wanted it to work and I was unwavering in that mindset. (To be completely honest, I did have Plan B defined, with a lawyer and a place to live and finances all arranged - but I tend to plan for worse case scenarios even if it isn't what I'm hoping for)
Having said that, a brief history is that I was the QUEEN of RAGE for about 8 months - and I use the term RAGE lightly. I was so hurt and so angry. Somehow I was stuck that 20 good years had been wasted on this guy - my whole adult life was now reduced to crap. It was a good thing we separated because had he seen - had he known -- the anger inside of me, our marriage would have ended. Even after I moved home, our OW remained actively in the picture so I could never get angry at him because she was only a short drive away.
Another aspect of my story that's a bit odd is that it wasn't until after he dumped OW and decided he was committed to making things work (15 months after dday) that OW got desperate and contacted me to give the details and expose a whole set of "new" lies -- so it was after I'd gotten what I wanted - a commitment to make things work - that I held the ugly truth in one hand and exactly what I wanted in the other.
It was that day that I do remember thinking in terms of divorce - but by that time it seemed things were somehow going to work out after all if I could find a way to hang on.
It's very twisted, no idea if you can follow it.
-Susan
If you are at all interested, here is my whole story - It starts out talking about a two year affair, but later in the post the news breaks about the third year (if you are still awake at that point - LOL)
Oh Susan! Thank you for posting the link for me. Of course I read the entire thread with your story. I just have one question: can I go stay with your parents for a couple of weeks? They sound wonderful--especially your mom. She sounds like the kind of mom I wanted but didn't have. I'm sorry for your pain, but I definitely appreciate your sharing what you learned about yourself (and the rest of your story, of course).
I have told my husband that at this point my greatest fear is that he will cheat again--especially since it seemed so easy for him to spend four years of his life cheating already (can you tell I'm angry and somewhat bitter?)--and he says his greatest fear is that no matter what he does, I will still leave him. Of course I can't help feeling that why the h**l didn't he think of that sometime during the four years? Why did it take him sooooooooo long to come to his senses? He says I just don't understand what it is like to be an addict. He's right. I don't, and I never can really understand because I spent my entire childhood being victimized by an addict of alcohol, so to me addiction means pain.
I guess I just have a tremendous amount of anger right now. Why is it NOW that he is so afraid that I might leave? Why am I SO important NOW when I wasn't important enough then? (I should say he made the decision to end the A almost two years ago. Actually I found a stray email around Valentine's Day, 1999, which was very early in their online contact. He promised not to have further contact with her. I went to a not helpful counselor twice, and I believed him when he said it was over. Duh! So in a way, I actually had a second Dday on September 26, 2004, when I found an old email from her on his work computer.)
I promised H that I would give two years to the healing process because I understand that two years is pretty much an average time of what it takes when the FWS is helping with the healing. I promised, so I won't leave now. But there are days when I feel so devalued because of the A that even though I love him with all my heart (this year is our 21st anniversary), I still do think about leaving. He says I would still need to heal and that healing apart from him would be worse than healing with him. I just know that I hurt very, very much. I believe him when he says he loves me, that he is sorry, that this is the worst thing he has ever done, that he hurts too, but somehow I just can't get past the fact that he let this ugly monster go on for a little over FOUR years.
(edited by fairyfriend to add on to original message.)
This message has been edited by fairyfriend on Feb 19, 2005 11:39 PM
Oh my goodness... it's almost spooky reading your posts because somewhere in the archives of this site I'm sure I wrote the same thing..
OHHHHH the anger, and the anger of being played for the fool, and the anger of realizing it was wrong to trust like that.
<<<<<<chill up spine>>>>>>
I understand every word.
I would caution you on the two year thing... while on one hand, I'm a firm believer in the Year One is all about survival (and even wrote a post on that to someone today) and year two is about healing (some people sound like their mother when they age, I find that I'm sounding like El) that for me (key word - me) right at the two year point I had this emotional dip into anger like "Holy Cow! it's been two years and look what you robbed from me!" kind of thinking.
In After the Affair, by Janis Abram Spring PHD, writes that one of the myths that prevent a marriage from healing is that many believe that there's been so much damage, they can never get back together. This is a good book. Have you read it? It's one of the very few books that address the WS concerns and healing.
Anyway, she writes "In the aftermath of the affair, it's normal to assume that love, once lost, can never be recaptured; that trust, once gone can never be regained. What I ask you to do however, is to judge your life together not by how you feel today but by how you've felt about it in the past. Look back. Were you ever happy or intimate? Can you remember what drew you to each other when you were courting? A hopeful prognosis for the future often hinges on the strength of those early years...if you managed conflict constructively... had a common vision of the future...had mutually satisfying sex.... enjoyed shared activities... there may be more hope for your relationship than you think."
This is in Chapter 4 - Confronting Your Fears and Doubts. It's a really good book if you are interested.
What we would do is get a book and two colored highlighters and as we'd read it, we'd highlight passages that we wanted to discuss with the other. I'd see in advance what he was interested in so I'd have time to collect my thoughts. I was a mess so the book CLEARLY was worded in ways that made more sense than I could put thoughts together. It was a relief to find something that said exactly what I was thinking but couldn't phrase.
The book also talks about the intoxicating effects of having an affair and how they justify the behavior.. obviously I recommend it for where you seem to be at with all of this.
If it helps at all, I do understand.
-Susan
This message has been edited by stillkickin on Feb 20, 2005 12:42 AM This message has been edited by stillkickin on Feb 20, 2005 12:41 AM
Don't give up...My FWS had ONS's for 32 yrs of out marriage and then a long 1 yr A that was intense...he is doing everthing to make it up to me...Yes I still get angry but not so much and the pain does get better keep asking H for hugs ...it helps..even 2 1/2 yrs later.
There are a couple of the ladies here who's H had long time A and they are making it work Teri's H had an A that lasted 7 yrs and she struggled for a long time but she has moved on and the last time we heard from her she was happy.
Do I fear another A or ONS...now,... no I take one day at a time...h is being loving and we are communicating so much better now...put the fear behind you ...work on today ...not the past or the future...just now...it helps so much. If H did have another A or ONS he would be gone he knows it and knows that three strikes your out....he knows there will not be anther chance....so I don't think or worry about it.
We are still working on our marriage and what was good and where it was lost...hard work but we are getting there....ONS"s hurt, as do A's ...it is the betrayal that hurts. once or 100 time it hurts the same.
please compare your H's behavior today, compared to his behavior when he was in a fog...big difference now ...trust todays behavior that is the true feeling that your H is showing you...the A behavior is the Lala-land ...two women who flatter the ego...two women to have sex with because you can...its not love with OW its an ego boost,.. addiction...escape from reality...no pressure from OW all flattery.
Listen to your H he loves you, care for you...he made a big selfish decision...but he is trying o be a better person now and that is what you want.
fairyfriend wrote:
<<greatest fear is that no matter what he does, I will still leave him. Of course I can't help feeling that why the h**l didn't he think of that sometime during the four years? Why did it take him sooooooooo long to come to his senses? He says I just don't understand what it is like to be an addict.>>
As a recovering alcoholic myself, I do understand addiction which helps me to some degree...
Addicts delude themselves to a degree that normal folks don't know..As I wrote in open, my H deluded himself that I would never find out, that he would end it after one last time with her, etc..
I remember this thinking from before I quit drinking 18 years ago...deluding myself that it wasn't that bad, that I would stop at some point in the future, etc...It does take a long time to come to your senses...I knew in my heart that I needed to stop drinking for SIX YEARS before I finally stopped..Sounds insane, doesn't it? Your life is spinning out of control over something you can stop, you are loosing your dignity and self-respect but you don't stop, you have all kinds of justifications for keeping it going, but once you DO stop, you look back and you can't believe the things you did, the things you lost or risked loosing, and you yourself are dumbfounded as to why you let it go on as long as it did...The rooms of AA are full of people who lost marriages and other important things because they did not stop drinking.
In AA they talk about reaching a bottom, and so many times the addict has to reach that bottom and loose something important to come to their senses...Normal people would say "why didn't you stop drinking earlier...you knew you had a problem...why did it take loosing your wife/job/freedom, etc to stop?? But the addict has a great sense of denial and denies that these things will happen to them
thanks for bringing this up...Going through my own drinking history again helps me to understand where H was at, and to understand why he put so much effort into his newest escape (like a junkie) and why it was so hard for him to stop...He know says that he is so glad the nightmare of the A is over, and he feels normal again...like he did when he stopped drinking...
Thank you so much for your insight and excellent advice. You have given me much to think on. Marie, when my husband read your words, he choked up, and with tears in his eyes told me it is just the way you wrote. And Pat he said you are exactly right about the A just being a fantasy--not about loving the OW because he didn't. And Susan, he said your words were very wise. We had a lot to talk about from reading all of the posts. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You have helped renew my hope in the future of my marriage.
I have put something on your post on healing, but I just read this thread as well and something Susan said was so close to home. It's about how everything is tarnished from the time of the A. Tainted is the word I have been using. I look back on the holidays we had then, the movies we went to, the things we did together and they are all dust to me. H says it's not so for him - he was living his separate lives and could enjoy things with me as much as things with her. But for me none of the things we did in those 16 months has any meaning now. And in fact things we've done in the 8 months since D-day are also tainted in a way, because I have been hurting so much and I associate recent things with the pain as well. It's so hard to stop thinking about what he did with her over that time. One thing is that he and she went to a conference together and then stole the weekend to be together, playing mommies and daddies in a motel for three nights. They went to a tourist town and bought souvenirs for themselves and all the kids (ours and hers). I have thrown away the t-shirt H bought himself, but our daughter still wears the top he go her (and OW got for her teenage daughter) and I can't exlain to her why I don't want her to have it any more. So every time she is in it I am reminded of what her father did, the lies he told me and his kids, the manipulation and exploitation that went on so he could have his selfish, selfcentred A with an equally selfish and selfcentred OW. The longer the A, the longer the period of your life together which is tarnished. Even though we have been together for 28 years, the last 2 years have come to signify our marriage and all we can see is the bad parts. I know we have to get beyond that and grow the marriage but it's so hard.
I agree "After the Affair" is the best book. I have been reading bits to H and getting him to talk. He says it's biassed to females ("I can tell a woman wrote that") but I pointed out that her husband is also credited with the writing and that it does not make judgements and has great insight into the feelings of the WS, which is something he was seeking in the early days. I wish we had found it earlier and also I wish the library would let me keep their copy, since I've read it almost to death!
Liz, I understand. I told my H that I can't really remember any good times during that four year period. His reply is "Didn't we go to girls' soccer games? Didn't we go to movies together? Didn't we go eat out? Didn't we go to kids' school functions?" And of course, we did. We also went on two of the longest family vacations we have ever done, but honestly, my memories of those times do feel tainted because even though I say to him "how do I know you weren't thinking about her when you were doing those things with me?" and he responds "I wasn't," I can't help wondering if he was. Now that's twisted! LOL
I don't have quite the same emotional baggage you do because my FWS A was predominately via internet and telephone with only two meetings for sex, but it went on for a little over four years. It took me a long time to get my H to understand that just because they had long stretches (as much as six months when OW lost her job and didn't have internet access) without contact, it didn't mean that they weren't still having an A because he still had an emotional bond with her. He came to understand that point.
I've decided that it's up to me to decide how to view my life. You can be darned sure that OW isn't letting our lives color her interpretation of her life and experiences. So I can choose to give her the power to overshadow my feelings, or I can choose to consider how I felt at the time and how I feel now, and if I remember feeling happy at the time some event was occurring, then I can choose to remember that event with happiness. Sure, I also remember times when my H was unexplainably grumpy and moody--gee, don't those sound like signs of someone feeling bad about having an A and taking it out on his family, just like all the books say! But those times were more just intertwined with normal, daily life, not any trips or outings.
I decided that I am NOT giving OW any power/influence more than she actually had on FWS. Did she truly have any power over me and my life? No, not really. I didn't even know her (lucky for her! or I'd have to go hurt her LOL), so how could she have power over me unless I give it to her? And I ain't giving that skank even so much as the time of day! So I urge you to reconsider your feelings about that time. Please don't give OW the power to rob you of happy memories!
Yes, it is good to take control and to know that I have a CHIOCE - to stay or to go. If I stay it's because I chose to, not because H or OW made me. Yes, we had some good times during those 16 months and this is what H remembers. But we also had some bad times when he was withdrawn and detached (depression exacerbated by affair), when he was travelling (to be with her), when he quickly shut off the computer screen when I walked past (because he was in e-mail contact with her). Such common little things which are constantly triggered by things which happen every day. As I've posted before, I don't hate OW; I pity her because she has to live with the knowledge of her own weakness as does my H. I would like her to hurt the way I do and I have to admit that I have a photo of OW on my nitice board at work which has so many drawing pins in it you can't see her face. Anyway, I am very hopeful today - I may even have got to the point you are at where I can call him a Former WS.
OOOhhh Liz! I love, love, love the photo on the bulletin board with pins in it! LOL! I didn't think of that trick. My H's OW has two different photos on a popular website, so I could print them out and "torture" the photos too! I'm grinning here at the thought. (However, poking holes in her photos might just be a little too much like real life, as my husband told me in their very last phone conversation she told him she had gotten a pig farmer friend of hers to pierce one of her n*****s.)
Even though I can't necessarily tell much difference from one day to the next (kind of like my diet), long term I see a big change in myself. My H says he sees much more of the old me now. I'm glad because I happen to LIKE the old me. I KNOW I'm a damn fine woman, and if my H is as smart as I believe he is, he WON'T forget that fact again!
I decided that even though I would happily still bi***slap the OW, I refuse to let her have any more of my life and world than my H let her have. Last night when I went to sleep, I was thinking about your posting that you were glad you had gotten more months past your H's A than the A lasted. I had to smile because I remembered when my H and I married, I could hardly wait until we had been married longer than either of his two long term relationships (prior to me) had lasted.
Hang in there Liz! You and I are both getting better.
They sound wonderful--especially your mom. She sounds like the kind of mom I wanted but didn't have. I'm sorry for your pain, but I definitely appreciate your sharing what you learned about yourself (and the rest of your story, of course).