I probably hold the distance record for years past D Day of anyone on this site (I'm too ashamed to give the amount). Yet I continue to be stuck in resentment/bitterness mode, and I hate myself for hanging onto it for so long!

I still have strong reactions to the many triggers I am surrounded with in this small town. My feelings are well hidden from my unremorseful W, as any open display of hurt regarding her cheating, "trigger reactions" or the like, is sure to bring her formidable wrath down on me, as it has done many times already. Plus, why rub her face in it after all this time? This site is the only safe place for me to vent it out, and express my vulnerability.

Even though things seem kinda "normal" between us on the surface (she's not usually mean to me), I still have deep resentment over what she did. I know there are no magic answers, maybe no answers at all.....
I've been with several therapists, I have examined my reasons for this self-torture--trying to find out what is the secondary gain I am getting to my addiction to these feelings, the bad dreams that accompany them, etc. I am a very forgiving person, but for this single exception....

Many of you have described almost exactly what I am experiencing... I have learned a lot from all of you, your collective wisdom, courage and hope (esp. SWN & many, many others), and I feel we are kindred spirits though we've never met. Yet I haven't moved beyond this horrible place.

I think that I must have a fatal character flaw.....

Blue:

I doubt you are really the record holder, but like you it's been a long time for me too. For me, tommorrow is the sixth year mark of an important pre-Day memory.

I've been learning somethings lately about how to get out of this cycle. Like Miketx found, they are related to my relgious views, so I don't know how transferable they are. However, at the risk of sharing too much, I'll share a bit.

Not only is the affair not about me, neither is the recovery. If my wife is unable to "meet my needs" for recovery and reconcilation, ultimately I have to find joy in the part that I do get. I see the path to getting there is finding my value outside the esteeme that my wife gives me. For me, the place to find it is in the esteem I am given by God. I think this is what some people call self esteem, but I have found that my esteem doesn't mean much to me. What I really want is someone else's esteem. I think before D-day, and even before recently I looked to my marriage, my career, my family for that esteem. Of course, on the devastations of the affair is that all that was brought into question. Only recently have I begun to understand that I need to find my esteem from God.

Recently I discovered that my wife is still not being totally honest with me about what went on between her and the OM. Mainly she's been telling me the feelings were less than the really were. I don't know where that story will end since it has never completely stopped changing, always revealing betrayal that is deeper than before. Although all this hurts me, I have found a new peace about it recently. It's as though I can't be hurt anymore by that betrayal. I can't really explain why, because it's not that I don't care, and it's not like I've become completely detached. Maybe the best thing to compare it to is how I react when my kids say stupid things about me. It's not that I don't care about what they are saying, but at the same time I know they are kids and they will say stupid things about me, either in anger or in ignorance. I usally don't react emotionally to those things they might say. It's simlar with my wife now.

All that said, having a spouse who is willing to accept responsiblity for the pain they have caused, who is willing to help you through recovery make it all much, much, much easier. I don't know if I'd be able to deal with some of the harder situations that I've read about even now, even with the peace that I described above.

Also, if I remember right, your wife hasn't exactly gone the fully repentant route. I think the less repentant the spouse, the harder it is to find peace after the affair. It's probably because the wound is always getting re-opened at every turn, even in things totally unrealted to the affair. Don't be too hard on yourself for feeling how you do. It helps me that I can tell my wife about my feelings and reactions, my thoughts and triggers. It has taken us both a long time to get to the place where this can happen. I've learned to speak of them in a less threatening way, and she's learned to be less defensive when hearing about them. It wasn't easy and we had lots of bad times because of her defensive and insensitive reactions and my angry and escalating comments. Talking has helped us find better ways, but it isn't perfect. Only a few weeks ago we had some really bad days when she revealed the new "truth" to me.

Nothing is wrong you.

BB

Nothing...absolutely nothing is wrong with you.  In the words of my MC, 'Some people just can not completely get beyond the devastation of an affair.'  I think that there are so many variables in an individual's life that can get in the way of affair recovery...not the least of which are their  childhood experiences and prior relationship experiences.

In your case...it sounds as though you are not able to move forward with your spouse because she never realized the error of her ways...she remained unremorseful.

BB - since you have obviously sought out various resources to help you...I doubt I would be able to offer any advice that you haven't already heard.    If I can make one observation...it sounds as though your marriage is (maybe) a bit one-sided...she is happy as long as you keep the status quo - however this makes you unhappy.  So, I have to ask you...how do you remain in the marriage, when you continue to be so unhappy?

BB...there is nothing wrong with you. It sounds like you and I have a lot of the same feelings going on right now. I am finding that there are just days that I cannot get past the devisation the A has caused....like today. And having a spouse who truly isnt doing all they can to help you heal and to help heal the marriage makes eveything even worse. I am sorry you are having a bad day too

Take Care,
Carol~

I think we all learn more truth as time goes on. I know I did also.

In a way I think I was so far into denial because I couldn't even begin to fathom what my H was capable of doing behind my back. I don't think I was capable of facing what my H did so my mind put it aside and I didn't deal with it until I was emotionally ready. Slowly, logical thinking set in and I uncovered truths by slowly picking flaws in what I was told. (This realization came after I quit believing everything he told me was the gospel truth.) It did seem like I had a higher power helping me out to uncover the truth. Whenever I thought I had things figured out the game plan changed. My gut instincts started getting very keen and seemed to channel me in the right direction.

I'm right behind you on the d day date Tom.
I to have this protective comfort blanket surrounding me and am not allowing myself to hurt in the same degree that I did right after d day. I can not physically or mentally handle that kind of hurt and pain any longer so I just can't go there. I can finally honestly say, "I did nothing to enable the A, it was all his personal problems that enabled it." Finally fully understanding this lets me look at things from a different angle. I thought I understood that I had nothing to do with what he did at about the 2 year after d day mark. However new truths still came to light and thinking back to the way I reacted with pain and hurt, I know I wasn't fully releasing myself of blame.

When I hear added crap I just think he has more of a problem than I originally thought. I'm really starting to understand how to let go of the things I truly can't control. My esteem is building in more areas that just A related stuff. I can easily spot the people that have no worth to my life and avoid them. Sometimes this gets scary when people I used to be close to just don't mean as much to me as they used to.

Amber

I too feel these things and I've become adept at hiding them or holding them within. Not a good idea but the only way to avoid destroying even a shadow of the day to day peace.

We are never going to understand why the betrayal happened other than to say it was an act of a selfish person without regard for the pain it would cause anyone else.

Will we ever forget what was done to us? I don't think so. We just learn to live with it and try to make the best of what we are left with in the relationship.

I don't look for "triggers" nor do I enjoy the experience of having them smack me in the face when they pop up...but if I mention them, I know what to expect...stone silence...and demands for an apology for bringing it up again...??? That only leads to more resentment and the cycle proceeds on down the slippery slope...We're Christians now and we should put the past behind us but...that is the challenge.

I do hope that what I've posted on here has helped, encouraged or enlightened those looking for a kind ear, or compassionate heart. I know at times, I've incurred the anger of some, the disgust of a few and the outrage of many but I only remember the kind words. The sad truth is...most people don't try to reconcile and at least we're here trying - for better or worse.

Errol,

I don't know what kind of personality your W has. By nature my H is very verbal. After him admitting to all the flowery, luring things he said to OW, I expect to be acknowleged when I come to him with a concern or problem (like a trigger). Before d day H had a shut off switch to me. When he didn't want to deal with me, he would fall asleep and ignore me. He tried these techniques on me a few times when he got tired of dealing with A situations but I don't back down and let things lie like I used to any more.

If your W is using the silent treatment then making you pay for daring to tamper with her she is still trying to control you in my opinion.

Many times I get so tired of staying on top of things because by nature I am very quiet and private. However something woke up inside of me after d day and I am no longer a doormat that keeps getting shook out.

In my situation no one knows about the A. Many times I felt like this awful person that wiped off the painted smile from my face after people left and turned on H like a vampire. He is the one that is against counselling so he has to deal with me through this all. I have calmed down so much lately that I can't believe it. Maybe it is because I have faced all my fears about his infidelity so I know he can't hurt me in the same way any longer.

The sad thing about infidelity is if our spouse has a problem in this area we can't totally let them own it because our lives are intertwined in it too.

Amber

All I can offer at this point is a great big support (((((((((((HUG))))))))))) I am so sorry you are still hurting so very much

d-day 1999...divorced 2003....the mistreatment from an unremorseful spouse is very devastating..distructive, I stayed in a marriage with an unremorseful spouse for over 3 years the damage from those 3 years has haunted my very being..the thoughts about Ex and OW are gone, they do not bother me one way or another now...but the damage from staying was to great..I am now seeking counseling once again, the only difference now I am doing it with a somewhat different mindset..a more calmer mind set...no more thoughts of Ex and affair just the damage to my self esteem..insecurities
well take care everyone....I hope all of us find that complete feeling of contentment one day...there is hope..and I am going to keep searching for that peace of mind and I know one day I will be free

((hugs))
Jo

What makes recovery even after divorce so hard is the facts...

you marry the person of your dreams

you love and trust them with your whole being

you raise a family and treat them with the most respect

you then see things, but overlook because you trust and love them....love is blind

you then start getting treated like crap and can't figure out what you did, and you ask but the reply is "NOTHING"but you know you must have done something wrong or they wouldn't be treating you like dirt

then you start to over work yourself with more love and attention, but still you get beat down with aweful comments and mistreatment...belittling you

then you discover d-day...now another struggle to survive in a marriage that was unhealthy for so long..you struggle with more love and attention along with anger, hate, bitterness

then your kids are starting to treat you poorly, they start to get these attitudes towards you and begin to also treat you poorly....you can't seem to keep your head above the water, trying to survive trying to think trying to figure out what is going on, but you can't think, you are so battered more words and mistreatment not only by your WS but also from your kids

and during all of this your health starts to fail..due to so much stress to your mind and your very soul...you become a shell of a person

then after WS leaves you find out why the mistreatment from your kids and find out that your WS had turned your kids against you, now you are totally messed up...your spouse cheats, not remoreseful, not bad enough that they had done that, but also that they turned your kids against you, then WS leaves you for much younger woman..someone who you knew.....

now you have to try to survive on your own....new place , new job, new life...what a struggle...I have struggled I have also survived..now its up to me to complete my journey after such distruction and heal myself...for me

then at some point after divorce you remember things in your early years of being married that WS was sneaking around and lying long ago...another blow to your self esteem>>how too trusting I was..how naive to trust so blindly..what a fool you were back then

I am a wonderful, loving, caring, beautiful woman and I'll be damned if I am going to let what Ex did destroy me anymore....
any man would would be pleased to have me in his life

well sorry so long...but somethings ya just have to get out lol

((hugs))
JO

I think they call this recovery

Great post Jo ((((((((Big Hugs)))))))))))

Carol~

Jo,

You have taught me so much. One of the main things is the fact that whether we stay married or get divorced, we all go through relatively the same process. Even though my spouse reassures me all the time that he will never do this again, I have such damaged trust for him that I want to be prepared for the worst. I know that even if I was with another person I would still have that damaged trust to deal with.

As you know in our case we have kept this all private from everyone. There were many times when I was hanging by threads to deal with this. My kids commented that I was losing it or getting very absent minded. Having to silently deal with all this helped me in some ways but hurt me in others. Where infidelity is concerned nobody is a winner. I'll bet your XH has many regrets he can't express but lives silently trying to keep up with his young bimbo girlfriend. (I usually don't like to call others names but this is what I call my H's OW also and I know we had similar situations).

Just because our spouse didn't leave with the OW doesn't mean we don't have to face the fact that their interactions with the OP weren't real. I know in my case H pursued OW every bit as much as she pursued him. At first he just tried to sluff it off as fate, sex for sex, ego boost etc. However the hard core fact is that he was ready and willing for something like this to happen for a long time. My neediness to be reasured most of the time that he is sincere about us wears him down.

Finding ourselves after a trauma like we went through is hard either way. When I would hear you talk so insecurely, I would always try to build you up because I knew how bad you needed it and also because I connected with complete understanding because I needed it too.

Infidelity changes us all. I don't have anywhere near the hurt I used to have. I just have knawing concerns that haunt me. I am sure I'd have them either way.

Amber

Amber I thank you for understanding the pain and always being here when I needed someone to help me figure all that affair stuff, and here I am still figuring things out, but not about Ex and OW, but the damage from the betrayel...my sister has recently said to me..what is wrong with you, its been years now and you still are not back to normal, she says that I get hurt so easy now, my mouth runs faster then my brain..she said you have to stop and think before you speak before you hurt someone with your words not everyone is out to get you not everyone is going to use you, not everyone is going to cheat on you, not everyone is Ex...hmmmmm she is so right I have to stop the obsessing that everyone is going to do me wrong....sigh!

**I know that even if I was with another person I would still have that damaged trust to deal with.** yes, so very sad..I just hope this new counselor can help me...she does give me so much hope

Jo said: "you still are not back to normal, she says that I get hurt so easy now, my mouth runs faster then my brain..she said you have to stop and think before you speak before you hurt someone with your words not everyone is out to get you not everyone is going to use you, not everyone is going to cheat on you, not everyone is Ex.."

Ok, I have to say here that: I was the most trusting person in the universe...even my H said so...he, in fact, told me I was TOO trusting, and shouldn't be (a hint about future events, mebbe, eh?)...

anyway....I am the same way, Jo....things are not back to normal, and my mouth runs faster than my brain...so.....i DO have to stop and think, but it's difficult, since being betrayed from such a TRUSTING standpoint...

Well, let's work on this together, eh??

HUGS, Cheri

"I think that I must have a fatal character flaw"

I think you have a normal reaction to a bad situation. you shouldn't try to fix normal! some people can live with it and some can't. this is where knowing yourself comes in.

for a long time (a couple of years!) I used to envy those who rec'd with their ws. I now know I was looking for a short term fix to end the raw agony of being deserted and replaced eg, the monumental fear and disgrace (in my eyes) of starting over, alone. I had wanted to rec even though I wasn't sure if I could have lived with it long term. the good part is that I'm well over the hump and see 'us' very differently now -not in a bad way but as two people who had different value systems and approaches to life.

it's a wonder to me that so many are able to rec. when I used to post here, I'd read the justifications and personal sacrifices that many bs's made as they talked themselves into staying. it made my skin crawl at times and I had to wonder, down the line, what this kind of self imposed acceptance does to a person's soul. at the time, I was prepared to do just that and more, anything but abandonment and rejection! it seems you get what you fear most which is what I got. like jo, it was a struggle for a long time but I made it through and am happy with myself once again, just like the old days!

I found that fear is a more powerful emotion than love and one has to be very clear when making decisions of the heart as to which emotion is talking the loudest.

There is a lot of wisdom here in all of your responses, which I appreciate!

For the first few months after D Day, Lapin, it tracked out the same as you mentioned...I'd do ANYTHING to reconcile, & not have to face the rejection and lost love of the person I loved the most! So as it turned out, we did reconcile, & now, after many years, I find myself regretting the "self imposed acceptance" I rushed into early on, while I was still in the fog of discovery.

I still love my W in many ways, but a part of my heart is dead to her forever. I don't think it would be this way if she were remorseful about her affairs instead of angrily defensive. I guess her "coverup" is worse than her "crime".....at least that's the effect it has had over the long run.

What I have learned from this and the other traumas in my own life, is that EVERYTHING happens for a reason--there are no accidents or coincidences. I have yet to fully understand the lesson for me in this one.....

you then start getting treated like crap and can't figure out what you did, and you ask but the reply is "NOTHING"but you know you must have done something wrong or they wouldn't be treating you like dirt


because I wasn't giving him the attention and sex he needed, he was hardly around he was always running around helping others and neglecting the needs at home....didn't make us a priority..but when he had the time when others didn't need him then he thought he should be given all the attention and all the sex he wanted...well I don't function that way...I couldn't perform the way he wanted me to...I just didn't feel loved or wanted only wanted when he wasn't needed elsewhere, I would tell him that he needed to talk to me to spend time with me...and he started to lie telling me he was working late, but found out he was out helping others ...I never complained about his job..he did work long hours in the busy time of the year and that was no problem....that was his job, and he knew I would never complain about that, so that is where sneaking around helping others and lying to me...he was taking that time away from his family...family, loved ones should always be the priority...I think that is why most become insecure, low self esteem, because the people you love don't make you a priority..you feel useless and unworthy....


it seemed I was always giving, but not getting anything back, only trying to give some back only when he had the time


would like to know if others also felt this way....is that were insecuities , and low self esteem come from....or is it there before and that is why you feel a need not being met ??

Jo said: "I couldn't perform the way he wanted me to...I just didn't feel loved or wanted only wanted when he wasn't needed elsewhere, I would tell him that he needed to talk to me to spend time with me...and he started to lie telling me he was working late, but found out he was out helping others ...I never complained about his job..he did work long hours in the busy time of the year and that was no problem....that was his job, and he knew I would never complain about that, so that is where sneaking around helping others and lying to me...he was taking that time away from his family...family, loved ones should always be the priority...I think that is why most become insecure, low self esteem, because the people you love don't make you a priority..you feel useless and unworthy...."

Edited because I don't know what the #)*)(#$* happened, but this thing wouldn't let me reply..

Anyway...my H told me he had to go to work EARLY, to help "scrub and polish floors", when, in fact, he was meetin the OW in the forest, and putting body parts in body parts...where they don't belong..then came home to tell me: "I don't love you anymore, I want a divorce"...only to tell me later on, by two whole days...that he was "in love" with someone else" and needed to be with HER....


yeah yeah right...anyway...for what it is worth....I think they are ALL crazy....even tho they accuse US of being that way....

Hugs...Cheri

Recently, I had the pleasure of reviewing a discussion on how they train the Killer Whales at Sea World. The speaker, a businessman decided to try the same techniques in his daily job as a sales manager and finally, at home with his family.

Reducing a long discussion to a few sentences isn't an easy task and without question always done poorly but let me try for a moment.

The whales weigh about 10,000 pounds and have the reputation of being the killer of the seas so training one would be the ultimate challenge for even the most brave.

The method they use is to focus on what the whales do right and not focus on what they do wrong. Whales love to be stroked and patted by their trainers so, when they do things right, they get lots of stroking and petting and when they do wrong - they aren't ignored but are simply redirected to do something they enjoy doing.

They aren't shouted at or punished in any way - just redirected. The trainers aren't looking for the "GOTCHA" of picking on the things done wrong but looking for the "WHALE OF A JOB" when they do things right. Looking for reasons to applaud, pet and stroke the whales and the whales, loving the attention, focus more and more on doing things right.

He treated his sales force with the same regard, ignoring the "Gotcha's" when they didn't do something right and redirecting them to doing things they always do well and applauding them when they did things right. It took a few months to gain their trust as he had been a jerk of a manager for a long time but finally, the rewards of the change in management style began to show up in the performance charts...until he had the best team in the entire organization and other managers began to ask him to show them how to do what he was doing and eventually, the management style was established throughout the corporation.

He decided to try and do the same techniques at home with his family.

The teenagers were in rebellion against their parents, his wife hated his total involvement with the job and the marriage was heading down the toilet.

They didn't believe the change in him all that easily but gradually they recognized that he was sincere and in time, it turned the family around and they became a real family again trying to do things right for each other.

OK, I decided to try and do the same in my relationship with my WS and my autistic son...by putting the focus on what they do right rather than waiting to catch them doing things wrong or saying the wrong thing and pouncing on the mistakes.

Well, it works and in the last couple of weeks it has become reflected in our responses to each other - it wasn't a smooth transition - but it is a better and more positive way to deal with what we must deal with than what I had been doing.

"Whale of a Job!" is by the same gentleman that wrote the books "The One Minute Manager" and others in the "One Minute" series.

You might want to take a listen. I got it on two tape cassettes. The first one explains the principals of the technique and the management application and the second tape is about using the same technique at home.

Errol

Right after D Day, I became determined to "win" her back......BECAUSE I STILL LOVED HER!
I was her faithful puppydog...helped her set up her new apartment when she left me, helped her find a good used car, etc. I even met with several of her four lovers, whom she had the gall to introduce me to, and I desperately tried to hide my humiliation.

BEWARE>>>GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF MISERABLE SCENARIO FOLLOWS>>>>>

At one of my visits to her at her apartment, (during our separation) I noticed a used condom in the wastebasket next to her bed. When she saw my dismay, she whipped out a pack of Trojans & casually tells me that one of her new lovers (formerly a good "friend" of mine) had a problem with premature ejaculation, so she was teaching him how to slow down by using a condom. He was also inept in the sack so she was also teaching him about the care and feeding of the clitoris! I mean....like I mean....why should I be bitter? All she was doing was providing a valuable Public Health Service and Biology lesson!!! His new wife should thank her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I later ran across her diary & letters which described every sexual encounter she had over time, in GUT-WRENCHING detail.....then she got extremely pissed at me for invading HER privacy.....She had unprotected sex in every imaginable way....& introduced me the the wonderful world of STD's (thank God, all I caught was a urinary tract infection)...Gotta love it!!!
Sorry for the rant.....bad day, lots of triggers.....

It's pretty obvious when reading your postings that there's probably no hope to rebuild your marriage.

You wife has left the marriage and her path will eventually bring only sadness into her life but you don't need to prolong the agony.

We all cling to the memories of what we thought we once had, remembering the good parts and leaving out the bad ones.

Talk to a lawyer and get things moving toward your new future. You'll discover a wonderful person out there somewhere that will be everything you thought your wife could have been.

Just don't look for her in the bars and meat-markets of society for those who inhabit those places are not seeking love as much as they are seeking lust and fun. Join some organizations in your community that attract nice people and you'll find a nice person and the memories of your cheating wife will fade into the great oblivion of bad ideas.

((((((((BB,)))))))))))

That was some pretty harsh stuff there guy! I know you warned us. I definately feel your pain in you post and I am sorry. My spouse is not very remorseful but at least he did not rub it in my face that way....OUCH!!!

Take Care,
Carol~

what I was trying to say, which might have come across differently is ...if you are still struggling with a unremorseful spouse, you need to get out of the marriage, save yourself, believe me it isn't going to get any better you will be only damaging yourself emotionally, physically , mentally...trust me on this one...I stayed way to long in a marriage with a unremorseful spouse and now I am paying the consquences of my OWN actions, way to much damage staying for those hellish 3 years...way to much
seperated free yourself from all that stress in your life...it is not a healty way to live

Blue - Everyone wants to be loved by the person you live with. Isn't that what your pain is still all about? She treated you miserably and seems unremorseful and resentful that you still hurt and still want to be loved by her. Perhaps the "secondary gain" (unfortunately I am also a pain researcher and know the term) may only be the emotional energy that may help you to find the door to a different future because the one you are in doesn't make you happy or even be at peace. I wish you well. You didn't deserve to be treated like this. M

For clarification.....
The scenarios I described in my last post (besides just being the tip of the iceberg of the cruelties I was subjected to at that time...I could bore you all for days with even far WORSE things) happened many years ago, not recently. I have been hanging on for dear life since, but it's not all bad with her now, as long as I never dare bring any of it up as that inevitably backfires into a nasty confrontation.

I have "adjusted" (maladjusted?), shall we say, but harbor much unresolved, unhealed pain over this. I have no intentions of seeking divorce. I am not a martyr, and certainly not a saint... I just never stopped loving this woman..... matters of the heart are thus. Am I in a trance?

Although I don't think she will ever cheat again, my PTSD-like symptoms are on a hair trigger some days, especially when I run into one of the OM or pass by one of her whoring spots in town. I guess some would say, "If you chose to stay, then shut the hell up and get over it already!"

Blue,

The beauty of Deeper Healing is it is a place to vent no matter how far down the recovery journey we are.

I am not proud of a lot of the efforts I made at first only to have myself proven wrong further down the healing trail. Infidelity is ugly and when a spouse is in la la land we are helpless. At first I had to approach affair situations with kitten gloves. Unless and until my H accepted that I truly needed to talk and vent things out once in a while he wasn't exactly safe to confide in about my deepest concerns. We are 5+ years past d day and he can still get a little testy when he has had a stressful day. Remember these people have different belief systems. Belief patterns take lots of time to change because they know no other way of thinking.

When divorce is totally unacceptable for us, we do have to have patience to find our own comfort zones. If yours is not to talk about the A, that is your decision to comply with. We all cut our own paths in life.

Amber

bb, it was painful to read the post about your wife's A descriptions even four yrs after the fact. most of us understand (but don't like!) the off putting behaviours ws's use to get distance from bs's but I'm sorry, that was sheer cruelty, if not mental abuse. I'm not trying to stir up old things for you but her intent to humiliate was made perfectly clear. I was like a jellyfish the first few mos afterwards cos I couldn't believe it and took a lot of mean stuff too. thankfully it was just a numbed-out phase as my circuits were overloaded.

you know, I don't think it's so much ptsd but a normal reaction. words can sometimes be more lethal than a physical beating. a part of you somewhere inside is simply not buying it but another part of you is. think that's where your conflict lies about not being able to forgive and why it's still giving you trouble today.

one thing I've learnt from all this is to pay attention to the porcupine that's inside all of us and to when I start talking myself into something -whether it's a job, person or even buying a pair of shoes!

btw errol, that was an interesting whale book lol and am glad it's working well for you at home. think it's neat that you're trying new things. my mom had that same kind of reward the good attitude and it makes you feel very safe. when you feel safe, you venture out and take risks. I currently work in a gotcha environment now and oh, talk about stress! agree that you do get more out employees with bait than you do with a whip. nice to see you again.

Amber, you said,
"Remember these people have different belief systems. Belief patterns take lots of time to change because they know no other way of thinking."

I hate to make generalizations, but this struck me as SO TRUE.... Seeing this in print, written by another betrayed person hit me right in the forehead.....It's like we are dealing with a different species of human or something....Do we share the same DNA?

I appreciate all who posted their thoughts. And I will continue to learn from all the wisdom, courage and hope I view on these boards.

Thank you for your kind words. I trust all is well with you these days...Errol

I'm 2 months past D-day. I have met the OM. I have had the opportunity to talk face-to-face with both the OM and my W at the same time. I feel the hurt every day. But, I have chosen to accept that what happened was between them -- it was their screwed up way of dealing with the broken parts of their personalities. I spent a month obsessing about the A. Now I'm trying to obsess on myself -- something I haven't done in the 9 years I've been married. In nine years of marriage I lost myself. In nine years of mariage I gained 50 lbs. In nine years of marriage I became bitter over having to shoulder all the financial burdens of my family -- including the daughter I inherited when I got married. In nine years of marriage I stopped doing many of the things I used to enjoy as a single person. Not very attractive. Not that its a reason for my W to do what she did....but nonetheless, I became "NOT" attractive. I have to own that. I don't know your situation but I would suggest not beating yourself up about how you feel. Go easy and start doing things that give you pleasure. Start doing things that you feel passionate about. THAT'S ATTRACTIVE. You'll like yourself -- THAT'S ATTRACTIVE. For me it is boxing and basketball. Not very exciting to most but I love do those activities. My W loves that I do those activities. I'm feeling great and it helps me cope with the thoughts of THEIR A. Choose not to be a victim. It was THEIR A too. Not yours. The only way to move forward is with passion. Find your passions and live them. If your W wants to come along for the ride, well, that's just icing on the cake. If she doesn't then you'll be better equipped to move on without her. FIND YOU PASSION!!!!!!! You have control over that. What you don't have control over is your W's attitude and choices. So, focus on what you can control and move forward to enjoy your life. Continuing to obsess is a choice and one that gives your W power over you. Take that power back by doing things you enjoy.

I know I might be naive as I'm only 2 months past d-day. But I just got back from an hour and a half of boxing and I feel great. Tomorrow at 8:00 AM I play basketball for 2 hours. I have my routine scheduled for 5 days/week. I make the time. Later on today me, W, and kids are going to rake some leaves and then go on a date tonight. Last night we had a steamy evening. I didn't ask her -- she asked me. But, she won't ask if all I do is walk around moping and being miserable. That's my choice. It's yours too. Jab, left hook, right uppercut....fight to take your life back. Don't expect W to give it back to you.

Andrew .

AWSOME MESSAGE

Good one, Andrew! You are much more resilient than I, but I better get myself in shape instead of allowing myself to slip into bummersville so often.....

You got to FIGHT for your RIGHT to be HAPPY!

Andrew - Thanks for your email! I copied it out. I hope you've kept it for days when you feel low. Many people come to this insight in various ways but you said it in a very visual way that hit home for me. Maybe it's because I started weightlifting at 2 months past d-day. It's hard to feel your strength when you are down but you are right, you have to have a vision of your own value and desirability and keep it in front of you, all the time. M

Blue Bayou

Thank you for your kind words. However, please understand that I'm not more resilient than you. Like you I feel pain every day of the A. Then recently I got a gift from our MC during an individual session. I asked her how to cope with all the graphic images I was having of their A. She simply said to me -- "STOP ACTING LIKE A VICTIM." Harsh, but great marching orders. It hit home perfectly. Playing the victim is unhealthy, unattractive, backward looking rather than forward, and, it gives W power over me -- like it almost validates the A. From that moment, in that meeting, I CHOSE to be a survivor and not a victim. And as an A survivor I don't know what else to do but to do things that I enjoy. And quite honesly I don't enjoy doing them all the time -- but I find that when I'm done I usually feel a bit stronger. Then it recedes and I have to go for another dose of excercise to get back that feeling of self-wellness. It's like a medicine that I don't ever want to stop taking that I know is good for me. W, OM, A can't take that away from me -- ever. But, as for being resilient -- I don't know. I feel quite weak in reality. But I know I can't allow myself to be consumed by their decisions and actions -- and I know how easy it could be to succumb to that. It's a choice that can't be made. It's one day at a time my friend. I just don't want you to think that I am some kind of superman and have figured something out that no one else has -- I hate what my W did. I'm angry, sad, hopeless, betrayed, etc,etc,etc. You know what I'm talking about because its the reason we're here spilling out our guts over what been done to us. But, you and I can choose to take one step forward every day -- a real "active" step. And the only way to take that step is to try and have some fun and rebuild our sense of self. What do you like to do? Activities? Something that forces you to move your body? Not passive (like listening to music or playing golf) but active. Something where you break a sweat and get that heart pumping. Feel life with some passion and purpose. Walking, running, swimming, tennis, hoops, weight-lifting, climbing, dancing, etc. Whatever YOU enjoy. If I can do it (remember from my post that I gained 50 lbs in 9 years of marriage) anyone can.

I'd be very interested to hear in a future post from you what you are doing to give yourself some enjoyment and happiness. You'll then become my inspiration to do even more positive "life-stuff."

Andrew

WOW!!! Some very powerful and positive messages

Take care,
Carol~

I am really inspired! I am five years past d day. We are doing very well. YOUR attitude however really is awesome!!!

I am delighted to meet you! You have a very powerful message that ALL of us, no make that all people need to hear. Thank you for sharing an incredible attitude with us. I have been trying to get to the gym for the last five years. Today I am going! Thank you A N D R E W!!!!!!!!!!!

As for those graphic images what worked best for me was just letting them play out. Not getting upset, just deep breathing and trying to deal with it as I would a movie. Just watching it. I learned it faded a lot faster that way. It was my raw emotion that fueled it, and my lack of emotion that allowed them to die.

Seems what we feed grows... there was a wolf story here years ago contributed by Rose Wolf. Do any of the old timers here remember it?

Thanks so much Andrew you are a wonderful addition to our family. Healing happens here because of people who care. Welcome and thank you!

El

Thank you for mentioning me.

Andrew had a lot of fine things to say ... just remember -

"Resentment is the poison that YOU take hoping that the other person will die."

With some people, resentment simply melts away; with others a conscious effort is needed. It may help you to actually go through a 'letting go' process where you write down all of the feelings that sum up resentment to you, put those writings in a box and set it adrift somewhere - that does help some people.

Perhaps what is really getting to you is the unresolved nature of things and the potent 'wrath' that remains with your W. For that anger is the hallmark of problems yet to be addressed. My W addressed her issues in IC and isn't angry anymore

You don't deserve her anger so don't accept it - don't be so hard on yourself - there's nothing wrong with you, it is your W who has the problem.

Best,


SWN