Hi all

I hope you are getting through the holiday season without too much angst. There are so many triggers for me at this time, because the A was in full swing two years ago and last year he was still lying to me about no contact - in fact exactly one year ago, 5 months after D-day, he was telling OW that he was still in love with her and that the only way to get through an evening with me was to be slightly tipsy.

Anyway, this morning we had yet another long "discussion" (me saying things and him staying silent or agreeing even if it isn't true. I have been particularly riled lately about the concept that what they had was a perfect romance and that they were the noble prince and princess feeling an indelible love for each other which they were sacrificing for the sake of their families blah blah blah. This comes from the letter OW sent me in the first few days after D-day, H's comments at that time about how he was in love with OW but had (nobly) decided to stay with me, and the letters OW wrote H this year after he finally did the right thing. The implication has always been that the love they had for each other was far stronger than anything I could ever feel for him or he could feel for me. It makes me so mad!

So this morning at the end of our conversation, he said "It was just an affair, a text book case, just like every one else's affair." I think this is a breakthrough, that he can see it that way finally, and not as the perfect love of his life ("why did I have to wait 50 years to find a love like this," he said to her). But then, do I want to live with a man who could do such a callous thing? Maybe it would be better if he did it because he felt an overwhelming sense that he had to be with her? I'm pretty mixed up at the moment - not even sure I want to be with him or whether the love has finally been killed even though he has been trying hard.

I was thinking this morning that if he is a man who could cheat so thoroughly and unthinkingly on me, could he also be a man who is into pedophilia? I would never believe it of him, but then I never believed he would cheat. My nieces (aged 9 and 6) will be with us over the holidays, and I'm now wondering whether I can leave them with him. In my heart I know he would never hurt them, but then he hurt me so what faith can I have in him?

Oh dear, must be seasonal affective disorder. Over here it's stinking hot and I don't have energy for anything, certainly not dealing with the washup of his affair. Send me some snow!

Hugs to all

Liz

Hey Liz,

We have plenty of snow where I live. We just got 9 fresh inches of powder yesterday, and add that to the 3 inches we got last week (which didnt melt) we have a full foot. It made for a very, very busy Friday for us at the pizzeria. Our poor delivery guys were exhausted but the tips they received were well worth it. My H's cousin sends us Christmas cards with Santa in shorts and I always laugh because it reminds me that it is summer down under when it is winter here.

Liz, I agree that it is a breakthrough for your H that he has let go of the fantasy of the A and sees it as just your garden variety A...not the perfect love that he and OW portrayed it to be. Perfect love does not exist except in fairytales. And love itself does not grow out of lies. It is the lies for us BS that kills much of the love we felt prior to the A for our WS. But they dont see that. They think since they are trying to make ammends the lies should be forgotten. Maybe we can forgive them their sins eventually, but we will never forget. "The scars are there to reminds us that the past is real...I tear my heart open just to feel." ~ a quote from one of my oldest son's favorite songs.

And now that he understands that it was a fanatsy, do you feel like you have made your point and you got him to see the truth, now f_ck off? Now that he gets it do you think he will have a different mind set as to what he was truly doing and what he really does have to lose? Maybe he does or will see that now Liz. That what he was looking for all along was right there beside him...and that would be you Liz...sweet, wonderful, loving Liz. If he did not know this deep down inside all along he would not have tried so hard.

But I know how hard it is to look past the lies, how hard it is to accept that maybe now they get what they did. It is hard to trust that what he is telling you now is what he truly believes, or is it just more lies. It's hard to tell if he is being sincere. But sometimes it just doesnt matter, does it? They did what they did and we know they are capable of extreme cruelty. Once you know what someone is capable of it is hard to not think they could do other horrible things. But I think that is just the way our minds work. If they could do this, then they could do that. But Liz if he is not showing or has shown a tendency for pedophilia I really dont think he is capable of such a thing. Now if you had found child porn on the computer or something then you would have cause to believe that it is possible. But we cannot let our minds think unrationally without just cause. Please don't let yourself think those kinds of thoughts. It will only cause more resentment. The issue of trust in him is what is making you feel this way...not the possibility of him abusing your nieces. I think you know that.
Dont let that mindset keep you from enjoying your nieces visit, and from having a Merry Christmas. Think happy thoughts

Love, Peace & Joy,
Carol~

Dear Carol

You are such a comfort to everyone here. Thank you for your insightful thoughts and comments. In my heart I know I can trust H with those girls; it's just that he has betrayed me so thoroughly that I would feel a fool if I didn't have this in mind as well.

We seem a bit distant at the moment. Maybe he has been hoping that what he has been doing to earn my trust and forgiveness would be enough; maybe now I see those attempts I begin to wonder if it is worth while to keep trying. My son got a disastrous school report this week and I'm sure part of his behaviour problems is from the fact that his father disengaged for the time of the A, and that since D-day I have been so focussed on mending the marriage that I have detached from the kids too. It's all piling onto me so I think I would be better off cutting the link and getting out. Son's report couldn't be worse if we were separated - his father might actually make the effort to do things with him if they didn't live in the same house!

Still hot hot hot. Yes, I always laugh when someone sends me a card with snow and robins and holly and cozy fires - all we want to do it get to the beach! I hope your holiday is pleasant and fulfilling - planning that trip to Italy must be lifting your spirits.

Hugs

Liz

((((((Liz))))))

You are NOT a cabbage moth.....neither am I...none of us are!!! (I know, I fight that urge to think it, too...LOL)...

You are a beautiful butterfly, about to spread her wings, and fly....

If your H wants to fly with you,wonderful...if not....well, Butterflies Must be Free.....eh?

Hugs, Cheri