Hello -

We have been together, married for 10. We are expecting our first child, which was conceived as his affair was dwindling down. He was involved with someone else for 2 years, in which time he had a 2nd affair for 3 months. All that time, he was pushing for us to have a baby (our first) and I was going to counseling to get my head together- as I believe this to be the most important decision a person can make.

This affair took place when he went on biz trips. So over the course of 2 years, he saw her 6 times - but they spoke or e mailed about twice a week.

We are in counseling once a week - he goes on his own once a week. He has given up his career in the travel industry so there will be no more alone travel again. He has joined my business so we are now working together. We have changed all phone numbers, and I have been given access to all e mail addresses. We do couple's exercises each week (Harvil Hendrik's). Sorry to bore you with all the details!

What I am hoping to find is a couple that is working it out - or anyone that knows someone that has stood the test of time after this horrible discovery. I know it is a small percentage of people (I think about 30%?) that stay together, and am looking to talk with someone in that group! Neither one of wants a divorce - although sometimes the pain of this is truely unbearable.

Please let us know if you are working it out with your spouse. We are looking for encouragement and hope!!

Thank you to everyone for listening

Raising my hand to count me in your 30% group.

My H and I are 4 years past my discovery (D-day) of his affair, and we are doing very well. We are happy and continually work to keep the intimacy in our marriage.

Ami

Is it only 30%... oh dear.. i would rather be fighting in a majority here..

Hi,

My husband and I are almost 1 1/2 years out from Dday (technically #2). His A ended about 1 1/2 years before then. We are together and happier and plan to spend the rest of our lives together. (Our 22nd anniversary is coming up in another two months.) I don't know what the stats are on how many marriages make it after an A, but I will tell you I have read that of the people who divorce after an A, something like 80% regret getting divorced. I hope that makes you feel more positive about working on your marriage.

fairyfriend

During my second pregnancy, my H struck up a friendship with a female co-worker. He was feeling emotionally needy and she was definitely stroking his ego. Their EA ended by them going to her house and having sex. That was 9 months ago. After the sexual encounter my H felt instant remorse, but was too ashamed to disclose what actually took place, so he downplayed it by saying they just made out. Eventually, the truth came out. He had actually initiated the event and she was eager to go along with it. Needless to say, I was devasted and found myself drowning in depression. Here I was with two sets of twins (four children under three) and I was trying to survive this devastation that had taken place. Our healing really didn't begin until we had a huge blowup around New Year's Eve. Both of us wanted out. That was when we went looking for help and found a fantastic MC. Since January, our marriage has become heightened. Our marriage prior to the A was truly an unhappy and disconnected relationship. So, we have chosen to just completely rebuild and to create the marriage that we should have had. It hasn't been easy. Though my H has been gentle and loving and sensitive and transparent, I still have days where I feel desperation or obsessiveness to check for any signs of an inappropriate relationship or sad or distrust. But, when I feel those emotions start to take over, I step back and look at what he is doing. We are only 9 months out with alot more healing to do, but whereas 3 months ago I had no hope.....I now have that hope that we are going to make it and because we are determined to journey together our marriage will thrive and be alive. It can happen.

Thanks Hattie and Fairyfriend for the encouragement - I would like to think that of the 30% who make it we, on HH are probably the ones who have a good chance at least.
I can only say that my wife is happier that her A is over already. And I know she appreciates my struggle to try to make it work. Of course my confidence in whether the two of us are right together is broken.
My wife wrote me a little message beside my bed today (she has started doing this recently and it read: "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a fantasy. Today is a gift."
This is where I am trying to live right now - And it feels better than the last few months since D day.
Certainly I and she are new people here - just not sure if we still belong forever. Perhaps we never shall be and perhaps noone ever can be sure.
I feel like my guiding direction comes from trying only to feel more and try to stop hurting anyone and help others to be happy. That means my wife and our children and everyone else I meet.
It certainly feels like a journey in the now and into the unknown. One step in front of the other and making the most of each one as it happens.
kind thoughts, Jerry

I've read one theory that the statistic is more like 75%, based on the idea that the rate of infidelity is actually around 80%. (i.e. 50% divorce rate, 80% infidelity rate => 62% ) Also, Peggy Vaugh (www.dearpeggy.com) has done a survey that suggests how couples deal with the aftermath of an affair has a lot to do with whether the marriage ends or not.

However, I'm among those on this forum who've stayed together. My situation at the time of the affair was married + dating 19-20 yrs, 5 children, and a reasonable happy marriage (by both our accounts).

I think a lot of your situation shows much to hope for. However, there is a lot of work to be done in recovery. A BS has to deal with the hurt, plus bitterness and resentment for the affair. The level of disrespect felt by many is so high, it takes what seems to be a miraculous effort to overcome it, but can be done.

Count my H and I in the working it out (worked it out?) group.

I HIGHLY doubt the 30% statistic. I'm more in line with Tom's estimates.

My H's affair lasted 3 years and I found out about it 5 years ago. There were plenty of rough spots in the road, but recovery is possible.

-Susan

Hi! We are in that group too. It's been a painful, wait, strike that....extremely painful journey and we are only 9 months past D-Day. But we are working, and committed to working on our marriage. Of late I've been really sad and somewhat angry again, so don't give up hope just because it all cycles up and down. Hang in there and keep the faith.

Summer

I was married 26 years when d day hit. 6 years later we are still together. I have 2 grown children.

Amber

Hi,

Count me in as working on our marriage and doing well...

married almost 37 yrs and last 3 yrs have been good.

My H cheated most of our marriage...D-day 1 was about 21 yrs ago...promises were made...he just was not able to keep the promise...

D-day 2 was 3 1/2 yrs ago...this time we did and still see a MC...he is a different person now...so I am happy I stayed and that we are working thru our marriage, ...communication. emotional bond ..is so much better.

there are lots of ups and downs...but the focus has to be on each other...and being aware when the communication or relationship gets put on the back burner...


Ami has posted on the Open board intimacy articles that are worth reading.

We are 20 months since D-day #1 (PA) and 7 since #2 (EA with the same person), and have been together nearly 30 years, 26 when the PA started. For a long time I didn't think I could put my hand up and say we are going to stay together and be OK, because H wasn't really committed to me and still continued the EA, but discovery of the EA made him really take this seriously and since then we have been making huge steps. I still have moments when I think I can't do this; it did happen, he did make this huge mistake and blow a good marriage out of the water, but most of the time I think we can get beyond it.

A local celebrity magazine here ran a poll a few months ago, in the wake of the Jude Law/Brad Pitt etc etc revelations. The question was "Would you stay with someone who cheated on you?" Something like 90% of the respondents said no, they wouldn't stay. Three years ago I would have said the same. But it's different when you're in it. I wonder what the answer would have been if they had asked "Have you stayed with someone who cheated on you?" I think the answer would have revealed just how many people do try to work on their marriages.

Something someone posted here said an affair is about a few minutes of bad sex and many hours on the phone. That's my H's affair exactly. As he comes out of his fog he recognises that it was the unhappiest time of his life. He knows that if he left me (or I kicked him out) he would be on his own and miserable and that's making him work hard on keeping us together. So like others have said, it takes work especially from the betrayer but also from the betrayed who has a lot of anger and grief to get over. But it can work, and it can be better as the bad parts of the good marriage are worked on.

Liz

Like my dear friends Amber and Pat my H too had affairs over a loooong marraige. We were married 30 years when d day hit. On that day I learned that he had first affair four years of marraige. Second and third affair were consecutive. Last affair was with a woman he had considered ugly with a personality to match. She was simply an available body. ANY body would do. Only requirement was female, and willing.

H thought since it was "only sex" and I would NEVER find out, it was no big deal.

Six years later he is a TOTALLY different person.

I loved him with all my heart and soul for ALL of our marraige. I thought we had a perfect marraige. I knew he had problems, I thought he was depressed. I thought if I was patient and loving ( for better or worse) I would love him through it. He told me he loved me and that I was the perfect wife. Everyone thought we had the perfect marraige.

After d day.. I no longer believe in blind love, or fairy tales. I do believe that true remorse, and true love can heal a marraige. It takes more than you can imagine and the betrayer has to shoulder 1000% of the blame and effort. The betrayed is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome and is not capable of contributing to the healing of the marraige for a long time. It is the betrayed's responsibility to be honest, and heal self first. As time and healing happens then the healing of the marraige becomes the responsibility of both parties.

My h has become a far better man than the one I married. And I had thought he was darn close to perfect till d day. I have become less loving than I was and certainly no longer innocent. This is the reality. I have learned to accept it. However, most important I have learned that healing DOES happen. It takes HARD WORK, AND TIME.

I made the right choice to give my H a second chance. A chance to prove that he can earn my love and be all that he deserves to be in life. A man I can be proud of. He has learned a lesson that almost cost him everything. It was a painful price but he says he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me. So far, the last 6 years he has tried harder than ever before to be all that I deserve. I realize now that he can never make up for the pain, but WE can choose to make our future filled with love, and honesty.

El

Life continues the road of recovery. Every year has gotten better. H still knows I hurt and he tries hard to make new memories.

LIFE IS GOOD!!! A lot of hurt through the past 6 years, but it's worth it.

I graduate in May 2007 with a teaching certificate and my H support 100% emotionally and financially.

Best of luck to all.


EL <<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>>>

Hi Lucille.

Good to hear the update!

Tom

Well you can count me in as half of a couple that stayed together after an affair.
We had been together since 1989 when she had a affair in the summer and fall of 2002.
The a ended in late novemeber of 02 and despite everything and including a couple of months of seperartion last summer we are back together doing better than ever and getting legally married after all these years!
There is hope after an affair, its a new relationship to be sure as the old one died on d-day 1 but in some aspects things are better than ever, the affair was forgiven but cannot be forgotten.
Both sides have to want it and both have to be willing to work on all the issues and communicate to the best of their ability...........its a lot of work but for us its been worth it!

Hang in there,
James

Hi,

I really hope that 30% increases as people find forms such as this to help with the healing process.

My dday was August 2004 (we have been together since 99)- I am almost at the 2 year mark and I can honestly say that I used words the other day that I never thought I would use. I told a friend of mine that this trauma has been in some ways a small blessing.

Our relationship is moving upward. Even through all of the hurt and the anger and I got very, very angry, there was communication happening. That is something we don't always realize in the heat of the moment. Of course MC helped us to work toward communicating more effectively.

We ended up learning a lot about each other in this process. But more importantly I learned a lot about trusting my instinct and letting myself be ok with not making decisions if I wasn't ready. I gave my self time to let "not making a decision right at this moment" be a decision unto itself, which gave me more power.

I am not saying that from time to time I don't still feel sad that it happened, but I also know we are much stronger as a couple now than we ever have been. We still have more to work on and I do think that it will take a few more years before I can truly forgive him, but for the time being we are happy and working towards making each other happy.

so - good luck to all of us!! in life we never know what is going to happen and there will always be things out of our control so we may as well be happy in the moment.

My psychiatrist agrees with the 30% rate (actually she said 1 in 3) of staying married. The statistics she gave for achieving a "satisfactory" marriage after an affair is 1 in 6. Pretty dismal. I do believe that the members here are looking for avenues of success and a willingness to try is the critical first step to healing. Maybe our small group can improve the statistics a bit.
Ivory

I am sure you find much positivity here. I am nearly 2 years past d-day one, 14 months past d-day 2. It has been a struggle I admit. Someone else said that there old marriage died and I believe that to be true of mine too. We are trying to build something new. It is tough, really tough but we are still here and are going to do the MC that we should have done 2 years ago. I am not sure what the outcome will be, but if it doesn't work out then it will be because it wasn't meant to and not because we didn't try.

This weekend my husband has booked lunch for us at a swanky restaurant. He NEVER did things like that before. So he is trying in his own way too.

Bela

ivory,

Out of curiosity, how much experience does your Dr. have with affairs. I have found that the three Drs that my H and I have been to, have not much experience with affairs and semm to say things regarding affairs that are contrary to what the "experts" say. I get very confused by the discrepancies between the Drs we have seen ourselves and the expert advice that I have read in books and so forth.

Thanks
Lisa

I have two experiences of affairs. In my first marriage I was the WS. I left about 8 months after dday. I didn't leave for the OM. I wish I had been a smarter, wiser, kinder person and could have ended a marriage that was not right for me in a more respectful and compassionate way. Now in my second marriage I am the BS - its been 4 years nearly since dday. We are working it out but its been very very difficult even though my H has been honest and open and has tried his best most of the time. I have no doubt about his sincerity. But it's been much harder for me than I expected. If you loved each other when you married, and he is truly remorseful, takes responsibility for his actions, terminates all contact, and is willing to stand by you through your pain, you can make your marriage much stronger and better. And for what it is worth even though someone who has had an affair in the past, is more likely to have one again than someone who never has, it is possible for that person to never do it again. I've been faithful in this marriage from the beginning even though there have been opportunities, and through this experience even though i've sometimes wondered if it might be the only way to bandaged the pain. It is worth being hopeful. MM

Our d-day was last January. Married for 10 yrs, 2 little girls. It was someone at work. We truly got to the door of divorce. Had papers negotiated and ready to sign. What has transpired since then is nothing short of miraculous. It has taken an indredible amount of work and tears but if you are both committed to moving forward, forgiving and building a new marriage together it can be done! My H has to do a lot of the heavy lifting but with time I have wanted to be a bigger help in carrying that load. I still hurt, I still trigger but with every new memory we create and the new intimacy we have built, it gives me the love and security I need to go out on that limb one more time. There are still fights and moments in which I wonder if I would be better off alone but every time we make up I know it strengthens our commitment to stick this out. I often forget that before this all happened I used to get angry in arguments and wonder why I had to be married to this moron. Those thoughts are nothing new! SO the fact that I think them now shouldn't be surprising to any of us. I know the pain and memories are intense so I am not minimizing that but I mean to point out that if you are both committed to upholding your marriage vows to stay together while also actively working on building and evolving your relationship I believe one can make it. Part 2 of that last sentence is what my H and I forgot to continue to do somewhere along the way. We both feel fortunate and blessed to have a second chance to do it even better that the first time. We were amazingly happy year 1-8, we just got lazy year 9 & 10. Big mistake. His bigger mistake was acting on his insecurity, loneliness and depression. No excusing him on that one! Good luck and my prayers are for all the couples making it happen in that 30%!!!

Bernadette

Bernadette,

It is great to hear from you.  I have been wondering how you are.  You sound like things are going great.  I am so happy for you.

Take care...Carol~

I think your doctor has depressing statistics

"My psychiatrist agrees with the 30% rate (actually she said 1 in 3) of staying married. The statistics she gave for achieving a "satisfactory" marriage after an affair is 1 in 6."

Based on what research?

I'd caution ANYONE reading this thread to take with a grain of salt the opinion of ONE unnamed person who's credentials are not documented, who's experience is not documented, who's not acknowledged as a leader in this field who is giving advice to one person we don't really know and giving statistics with such a gloomy picture.

When compared to published authors with documented research covering years of private practice and personal experience and numerous scientific studies that all agree with each other with MUCH HIGHER success rates, this person seems to be standing alone in left field.

Not my doctor, but I'm writing this because I remember what it was like soon after dday to be exposed to the popular cultural belief of gloom and doom and pride and ignorance. It made me want to throw in the towel.

If you choose to have hope, I'd recommend looking for materials written by:
Peggy Vaughn - "an internationally recoginzed expert in the area of extramatarial affairs"
Janis Abrahms Spring PHD
Shirley Glass PHD


For what it's worth -
Susan

5 years out and really quite happy

Susan,

5 years! Wow! Your words are inspiring.
Have you learned to trust your h? Do you have a good, maybe even better, relationship? Did your H really help you through his?

What would you say was the MOST influential segment to aid in your healing?

Right now, I feel like I can only dream of true inner peace - no stress or heart racing. No quickened breathing.
But centered, calm, trusting - a tranquil mind.

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

We have a far, far better relationship now, but it's not because H had an affair -- it's because he realized that running, hiding and avoiding his fears were not solving anything and he was willing to face his demons and resolve the major issues that were haunting him. Amazingly, when you solve some of the big issues, some of the spin-off issues just go away.

Yes - we have learned to trust each other -- trust wasn't just my issue out of all this. He had to learn to trust me with his feelings. Like many men (people who seem most often to be men anyway) he felt he should keep his feelings hidden and the idea of sharing them -- whoa! that was a new idea.

We are much closer now - we talk more, we share more and I think we are much more relaxed with each other now that we know we've weathered such a terrible storm.

My trust is a bit of a different issue -- my H lied for 15 months after the affair and after only a brief break-up, they resumed their relationship all the while H was pretending to do all he could do to help me. Never, not once, after dday and during those 15 months did he ever come clean on any detail without me first finding the facts via hacking into emails, un-deleting old files on the PC, figuring out the password to his VM at work, digging through his pockets, his wallet, his truck, his journal and eventually, meeting his OW. Never once did he tell the truth until confronted with it with proof he could not deny. That puts trust somewhere into a black hole.

I see he's a different man now. He acts differently. He doesn't hide things. He admits to faults and mistakes now and accepts responsibility more than he ever did before -- still, if I'm out of town for a week on business, it's as if I worry about the monster under the bed. Logically I know it's not there, still, I worry sometimes.

I think (?) it is the same fear any WS has about any relationship they find themselves in after dday. It was never supposed to happen in the first place, how can you be sure it will never happen again. On one hand, anxiety attacks are a distant memory now...I almost never have nightmares...I can go days/weeks without even thinking once about what we went through - but on the other hand, for me, knowing that he was never once - not even once - forthcoming with any facts without me holding proof, trust is a big hurdle. Eventually, I had the rest of my questions answered, when about 3-4 years after dday, he let me read the journal he kept during his affair. He kept it locked in a drawer and he works in a secure area so I could never get access to it. It pretty much completed the picture, even answering some of the "what the hell were you thinking?" questions that he never dreamed anyone else would ever read. That helped with the trust because it answered so many of the questions. Normally, I hate shades of gray so if you ask do you trust him, I'd quickly answer "yes" but if you asked if sometimes old fears rattle me, I'd have to answer "yes" to that too. I think my fears are based more on my insecurities (example: What would I do if this happened again?") than on his behavior.

What helped the most? Reading the same authors I posted above. It's hard to explain, maybe you already understand, but I thought I was going crazy. I'm a very logical, ordered, structured, organized person. When suddenly it seemed nothing in my world made sense and whole sections of my life (what I valued) were colored in lies and I couldn't learn the whole truth or put the puzzle together - that was really hard for me. I was having nearly daily anxiety attacks - the real attacks, not just crying jags. I was angrier than I felt was possible - I was in a rage. I wasn't sleeping. I wasn't eating right. I was covered in hives and my hair was falling out. One day I read about a murder in the paper and the article alluded it was an OM and I remember thinking "good job!" None of those things fit into a logical, structured life.

Meanwhile, H is still cheating, but pretending all is well. He's gas-lighting me into believing I'm making things up. Honestly, I felt crazy.

Those authors put into words some of the feelings I was having and called them "normal" I read every single affair recovery book I could find, but kept going back to Peggy Vaughn, Shirley Glass and Janis Abhrams Spring (not sure that's spelled right) and re-reading and re-re-reading them. Then I found this place and spent HOURS reading the archives and chatting - sometimes I laugh now as I used to wonder if this place meant I was normal or if we were all crazy.

Whatever it took to validate the anger, the confusion, understand the self-imposed isolation, the grief of all of this - that's what helped me the most - and for me, that was reading the advice of the established, published, documented experts.

Make sense?

-Susan

Thanks Susan for your posting and encouragement that we can make it.. I would love some more encouraging stats too. 

The think that struck a chord with me from your last posting were you comments about trust and trying be black and white.  My feeling on that is that we are all imperfect and so perfect trust is also impossible too.  So I am now living in a world of grey where I am working on trying to both give trust and also know it may not be fulfilled perfectly.. not that I am being blind and stupid here - no - If anything I view this as far more realistic.  What do you think?

May you be happy and peaceful Susan

I was thinking about this thread which is about hope and Susan's lqast note which is about trust and I guess that's been part of my issues as well. I have a great deal of hope in our marriage but I've also learned that behind a strong facade I'm a vulnerable person and I've also learned that my H may betray me. Eventually you have to come to the possibility that it is possible that this could happen again even though you go on in the marriage because you have increased certainty that you won't. My fear is my vulnerability. I know that as bad as this hurt was that if it should happen again it will be much worse and I don't think I could endure it. I know now that I have limits - I mean psychological - emotional - maybe spiritual limits. I've been deeply suicidal, when I realised on some subconscious level that I was dealing with lies (not after I found out though). I know now that my world could get that black and that it probably would if it happened again. I really want to believe that I would find the courage in that blackness to keep on living even if it meant leaving him - ie. that I would not give up on my life. I don't know if anyone else has felt this way but this has been a big struggle for me - I know that in recommiting to my husband that I put my life on the line. That's when I think of David's comments, about his faith - I do think, even though I don't share the same faith, that there is something I hold on to feel that it is worth taking this risk. Maybe that is what love is, M

Yes MM I have had the suicidal thoughts too.  On and off over my 9 months since D day.  I am sure others have too.  I got to the point several months ago where I was sitting with a blade ready to cut my wrist - it scares me a bit to even reflect and write this now.  I had even got a plastic bucket to put my arm into so it would not make a mess on the carpet.. The clear thinking and concern about something like that at the time leaves me chilled now looking back.  Another thing is that I had told my wife when we were courting that I viewed a comitment to marriage as a matter of life and death for me.  I told her about a previous relationship in which I had suffered greatly when I ended it and realised how close and attached two people can become, sometimes even without noticing it at the time.  I noticed also another reference on this site a few weeks back to some who may have come here and not returned.  This sent a chill into me too.  What we are dealing with here are matters that can harm and even kill people.. Yes I can see this is true.  So I take none of this lightly.  And Yes, MM I too have thought about the returning commitment as an act of love, even as a test of what love can be.  One thing I now reflect on is how my path to healing has effectively been a death of my old self - Also a death of our marriage.  So, yes there has been a suicide here somewhere.  And I can't recall exactly where but someone recently posted here about an A being like someone comitting suicide in a marriage or to the marriage.  MM my view is that I am a new person and not the person I was before.  I didn't need to kill myself because I have transformed myself, indeed am still in that process.  Do you think this makes sense?  And in some way I feel that I shall always being in a process of leaving myself behind here.  Oddly there is a strange sense of liberation and release to think of myself and the world changing and evolving all the time.  I realise too that a big part of my pain in the A has come from my long held and cherished dreams or idealist views about fidelity and marriage.  I believe the new me knows there is grey and risk and hurt and yet can survive in this real world.  Accepting and understanding and forgiveness come from this realisation that nothing is perfect.  I can also let go of my fixed self and change and try to walk a path to happiness.  And this is perhaps where the faith that David and others talk of comes in.  Having a route map and the help of friends of integrity can help here too of course.  So... MM, thanks for your post which prompted me to write all this chain of thought down.  I would like to think that something in it might make you and others feel that however bad it can be and however close you may feel to suicide that you do not consider this a good way out.  After all, there are ways of letting your old life go and finding new life and a happier one too.

May you be well, happy and peaceful

Jerry and MM,

I can totally relate to what you are saying. I felt suicidal a few times. I remember driving home from work one day and seeing a double-decker bus coming fast from the opposite direction and thinking very calmly how I could just accelerate into it. As you say, Jerry, these lucid, cold thoughts are very frightening in the place I am in now. I am ashamed too, to think that I would let someone else's actions put me in a position where I would alter the course of my family and friends' lives forever.

Trust is a funny thing. I told my counsellor that I trusted my husband 100% before the affair and his response was that 100% trust only really happens between parents and children. I've had to re-shape a lot of my thinking and have done a lot of work to get where I am now (i.e. sane!). It helped me to look at my feelings in the light of my past and realise that my feelings about the affair and my marriage were related to past events and the emotions tied in with them.

I realised that some of the pain I felt was actually related to being left by my father as a child and the feeling of failure was due to the fact that our family life after he left was pretty miserable. After I took that out of the equation I felt like I could be more logical i.e. I could accept that him leaving me would not be the end of the world, I would not be a failure and my children would not be doomed to be unhappy forever.

It also freed me up from thinking that this marriage is the be-all and end-all. If it fails I will never be happy, never meet someone else again. I have realised that people can move on and be happy. Bizarrely I feel better about staying in the marriage because before I thought that if I didn't trust my husband 100%, I couldn't stay.

Well, the truth is I don't trust him. I'm not going to be constantly checking up but I will be aware in the future and won't be living in cloud cuckoo land like I was before. At present I don't think he has changed enough to say that he won't do it again so that is one of the things I am now able to live with. If he does, I will move on. This probably doesn't sound very positive but it feels positive. I feel like I have lost the fear of losing things, so I can just concentrate on my day-to-day life and not get totally screwed up about what did or didn't happen or what will or won't happen. Does any of this make sense??

Bela

Thank you Bela and yes what you say is so clearly put.  I feel better just to know that I am not alone.  Thank goodness for you and this place. 

Another thought came from reading your note and that is the WS - These people too have to unlearn and experience the remorse of having caused the pain.  It is now 9 months past d-day for me and wife is now being more tearful and has written to me note today (we exchange little notes) saying:  "I feel sorry and ashamed.  I hope I can learn to live with myself and I hope I can make your life more peaceful."  WSs also have to tread a difficult path to find themselves and become reconnected with the rest of us in the daylight.  We do need to find a way of opening up and letting them back in.  But this time we are, of course, wide awake and do what we do knowingly of human weakness.  But this knowing is not in any way less loving - In my view this is surely the love of reality ie true love.  And if we can find happiness then this is fine.  It is also ok if we cannot make it work.  And this is a reality that feels like a burden is lifted.  At least I think that is what you describe and I feel too.

May you be happy

I appreciated your comments Jerry, also Bela. I think feeling suicidal comes for many reasons and maybe they vary a bit. I never felt suicidal after d-day - I knew what I was dealing with and as awful as it was once I faced it I didn't have those feelings. I felt it when I suspected and then went into this profound denial - couldn't face it at all. It was an acute state for about 2 months and then I seemed to haul myself out of it. i didn't face anything directly but started on one level preparing myself emotionally. The fear about these feelings for me is knowing that I can be that vulnerable. I'm not like that as a rule. No one I know would describe me that way. I don't asvoid conflict either on a professional of personal level - it really took me aback to realise that there is actually one situation that would completely disarm me - betrayal on this level. Even more so because when I told I did tell my first H that I was involved with in an A, and he felt suicidal, I could not understand why he felt that way. I couldn't understand why he would feel that way towards himself when it was I who had behaved badly. That's the fog of a WS!
It's good that we have each stepped back and found some way to find strength against this kind of adversity. You are a very kind and thoughtful man Jerry. MM

When I had suicidal thoughts after d day, it was because I couldn't stand the pain. I remember saying over and over to myself that I can't live through this pain. I chose a very absolute way to end my life but never got past a few minutes of thinking about it because I couldn't envision waiting hours for a train to come. I wanted to escape the excruciating pain because it was wearing me out in so many ways. However my main concern was shielding this crap from my kids. There is no way I could have even thought about stressing my kids on d day because of the high risk pregnancy my daughter was dealing with. I didn't want to jeopardize my first grandchild's life in any way, shape, or form

We are 6 years past d day and I now have 4 grandchildren and one more on the way. When H didn't deserve my love, I would pour myself into the grandkids and love them to death. However I have to say the grandkids love both grandma and grandpa dearly. Even though none of them existed until after d day they view us as a package deal. They have all been great reasons for us to role model good behaviors.

Amber

Susan, MM, Bela, and Jerry,

With apologies to thread-jacking...

Having just returned from an extended vacation, I now respond to your overwhelming support and words of wisdom.

Thank you.

It's really as simple as that. Ah...the old cliche Misery Loves Company. It's somewhat comforting to know that others have had suicidal passing thoughts. I am glad none of us ever acted upon them.

On D-Day I wanted to get drunk and jump off the top of the house. I was working on it too, when there was a knock on the bedroom door. It was a close friend of mine who knew nothing of my H's infidelity. He was so worried about my rantings that he called her and asked for her to intervene. It worked; I connected with the world outside my pain.

But sincethen, I've had other fleeting thoughts. Fleeting and then they're gone. Like a warm uncomfortable breeze that flutters on your face - and then it's followed by a cool gentle relaxing wind.

I think my hardest - and seemingly impossible - thing to do completely is forgive.

Sometimes I think I've forgiven my H, then I get all squirrely and hurt and low. Can I forgive but not forget? I constantly deal with brain trash.

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

JJ,

On the struggle to forgive....I highly recommend the book,

'How Can I Forgive You:  The Courage to Forgive, The Freedom Not To' by Janis Spring (she also wrote After The Affair).

I am about half-way through this book...and it is excellent!

Kara

I second that recommendation to read Janis Abram Spring's book "How Can I Forgive You?" I found it to be the most helpful to me in understanding the processes of acceptance and forgiveness.

Huge healing fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

Actually FF....it was you that recommended the book to me a while back !!  I've finally had the time to read it - and I wish I had made the time sooner!

Kara

I will try and find the book while I am visiting my daughter in Seattle. Hmmmm...visiting our daughter is probably a euphemism for getting away from H and having 3 weeks to help sort things out for myself.



Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

Sunflower and I are 4+ years since Dday. There is hope! You can converse with her on "Open" I am only in here from time to time due to my working long hours and spending as much time as I can with our children when I'm home.

Oh Kara!

I am so glad the book helped you. I know you were in a stuck place for a while, but you sound much better today. Hooray!

Back from threadjack! LOL

fairyfriend

After finding out about wife A I thought about leaving but did not want to give up 20 years of work so we are working on it. If both parties are willing to try and make it work and deal with theissues that caused the A then 30% is way to low. keep trying it's never an easy sdecision but I think a wothwhile one

Count me as part of the group that is working it out. I'm four years past D-day, and feel that my marriage is on stable footing now. I would reiterate what others have said: the more remorseful and responsive the betrayer is post D-day, the better the chance for marital recovery.

I also like a quote that Susan often pointed out from Peggy Vaughn's book: the first step to recovery is believing it is possible.

Also, another book recommendation on forgiveness: "Forgiving the Unforgivable" by Beverly Flanigan. I found this book highly helpful.