I am just so bummed out today. It is not often that I feel this hopeless...at least not lately, lol. No one did anything, nothing major happened, it's just the down slope of the rollercoaster. Just feels like there is no hope for me and H no matter what I try, or how hard I work or change but I just cant get up the balls to leave. I am not as scared as I used to be, but I am still not there yet, being ok one way or the other I mean, if we split up or stay together. But I am getting to that point. I know I have a breaking point, but damn, where the heck is it? I do have some hope that the trip will help, but I am not counting on it or anything. At times I really think my H is too far gone...too many lost brains cells from the pot, too set in his ways and contol concerning the pizzeria. I dont think he is willing to give up even a smidgeon of "his" lifestyle and he is definately not willing to meet me in the middle as Jerry says, atleast not right now. And that unfortunately is what marriage is all about, compromizing....and my H does not compromise well
Take care.........Carol~
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Mar 7, 2007 2:42 PM
((((carol))))
I am sorry you are feeling bad today. I wish there was something I could do to make this all go away for everyone. I have been having those days myself. It's almost like you just breath to keep your body alive, but your heart and feelings have died (at least that is how I feel at times). I hope your "rollar coaster ride" goes up tomorrow so you can have a better day.
Jetta
Hang in there. You know you are in a dip, and at least you recognise that. I suppose this is the time for NOT trying to analyse too much (which is what I am guilty of).
You know your breaking point, but give yourself credit. You have stayed, and given your marriage every chance that you could muster. I feel from your post that your 'hope' has dimmed a little. Try to get through the next few days, and see how things look when you are feeling a little more on the up side.
You have been so valuable and positive for me, I wish I could make you feel better. Just know that I and many others are feeling for you just now.
Carol, Jetta, Heatherone,
Could it be the weather? Maybe the fact that it's spring and everything is new and blossoming open and fresh and young...that makes me feel so stagnant or in a "dip." Just over 6 weeks for me and I know that I am in a real low.
I keep asking Why? How could you do this to us? It hurts so badly, and my H is being very cooperative...but for us it's the second go-around. He started the A last summer with this OW, then confessed, I forgave, then he went back to her two months later (I didn't know; thinking all was over) all winter. H confessed again in March. I ask myself "Can I do this all over again? Twice?" and then I ask "Do I want to?" This time is different than last summer because he truly seems remorseful, attentive to me, and honest. Yes, honest. After a year of lies, but I can't help but have some doubts...and when those doubts set in...I go for my dip. I hate being this low. I've always been the consummate optimist,the one without mood swings. LOL Now I'm the QUEEN of MOOD SWINGS! LOL Sounds like a country western dance.
PLEASE hang in there, Carol. I need you to! I need to read everyone's notes when they're in an UPSWING! That helps to let me know I CAN DO THIS!
I just don't feel like it this morning. But there's a lot left in today. Let's look for the rope to pull ourselves up.
Thank you all for your responses and for cheering me up. I really appreciate it. It could just be Spring and the promise of new life and love that is everywhere around me. It can be overwhelming at times, that's all.
I understand the 'dip' in the rollercoaster and the feeling of...when does this end?? I truly don't know my breaking point either. I have been through so many d-days and I just wonder when I'll get to that point of, "that's it!"
You have been such an inspiration to so many...and you keep plugging along. I too hope the trip is a point where he 'gets it'.
Oh, Carol.....I know you have been so tested. It's not fair. I am looking for the real meaning in all of this sh**. And wondering if it all will even amount to a hill of beans when I'm an old lady. I am trying to act like I don't give a damn anymore (cause I don't) and my H seems to notice that.
I have always been very sensitive and that was great when I was young. But now it just seems to cripple me because I have changed so much. Most of the time I feel mentally unstable, I don't think people know that. I put on a very good front.
I once told my H that one day I would wake up a different person and that happened. I don't feel the same about him anymore and I can't really get that back. You however, still deeply care and want things to work out. I think that alone is very hopeful. I hope when you go to Italy this summer that you really kick up your heels!!! Make it Carol's "La Dolce Vita!!" And maybe that silly fool will see what he has in you. Before it's too late.
Take care and I hope you wake up feeling better. Hugs. E
Hope your situation improves. I have been reading this for four months but just got the nerve to register. Isn't it funny - I was afraid H wouldn't like it!
It seems everyone has up and down days but maybe we need to exercise more controls over our own lives and stop allowing liars that liberty. I don't know if I even want H anymore and am in no position to offer anything but an ear.
Carol. You are amazing. You are wonderful. Now that's a start. You need to be told this once in a while perhaps.
And if you accept this then you can sit there and know "I am ok". And that is just fine. You don't need to worry about H and his pot and As. No... you don't!! YOU do have the opportunity to say to yourself that none of all that really matters. After all, imagine when you are old and grey (it happens.. or worse even!). Just try to imagine that one day you will not be that wonderful, beautiful person you are in the mirror right now. Then realise that even then, the true beauty will the that which shines out from inside. It is the real you that is wonderful and amazing. Just be really very happy with you just as you are. And then look out through those windows we call eyes and take a look at your children and ... yes even your H and know that they and.. even he is really wonderful and amazing too. (And all he has to do is to look inside too to see all that).
May you find peace and happiness inside,
Jerry
hi carol, hope you are feeling better today mate, go get a massage or drop the kids off at school, then sit in the hot tub on your own with a good book, some decent music playing in the background, some chocolates and maybe some champagne (but given it is day time - the best fresh plunger coffee you can find and just have a float.
you deserve a day off, a day to reclaim yourself. so your mission now if you choose to accept it, whenever a down day happens, make it a mental health day for yourself and indulge. make it an indulgent day
Unfortunately Kath, I am still feeling bummed today.
I think it has to do with many, many things about my H and the A. All his issues just seem overwhelming to me right now. He doesnt even recognize he has a problem, so how is he ever going to resolve his issues? It's like Dr. Phil says "you can't change what you don't acknowledge" and it is so true
Plus his inability to be intimate with me emotionally. He has no problem physcially, lol. But now the lack of emotional connection is really getting to me. I know, many men think they are showing love because they want to have sex, but that's not the problem. The problem is that even though I tell him I NEED him to tell me I am beautiful and other endearing sentiments, he just cant say them, or comfort me when I cry because he cant say them. It hurts so much and it is making me feel very blue right now. Yet he seems to have no problem saying he loves me, but in my opinion he is not backing that up with actions. He just doesnt realize how much he is hurting me. And if he does, then he is just being cruel. I am not sure which anymore.
I have been doing so much better these last few months feeling stronger emotionally and physically, and now I feel like I am taking a step or two backwards. I know this is normal, but what a negative impact it is having on how I feel. Today I sat and cried for over a half an hour after everyone left the house this morning. I have not done that in a very long time. Right now I am feeling like a wounded soul...
Thank you everyone for your responses. I do appreciate them so much....take care...Carol~
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Apr 27, 2006 10:06 AM
I am so there with you today. No words of wisdom.. i just no exactly what you mean. You tell tehm what you need and in my case, my H acts like he gets it, but never follows through. He says he loves me in a very sincere way, and I believe him, but there is an inability in him to SHOW me. By not doing the things I say I need, the I Love You begins to feel like nothing.
Oh Carol and Lisa..
It looks like you have told the stupid man what to do and he is choosing to ignore you. For that is what he is doing. In his head he knows what he has to do and is deciding not to.
Let me reflect a bit:
One thing that has struck me after these last couple of months on HH is a real and deep understnading of how women are mistreated .. or perhaps not understood .. by men. I have read time after time how men are not being empathetic but are really being rather pathetic. I realise now in a way that I never really did just how much women can and are often lose out in the world. Women, all too often, are victims of unfeeling and, yes, cruel men. I wonder just hearing your sad and unhappy postings today what to say to help. The thing which surfaces in my mind is just that I would ask you both to try to be happy in yourselves. I wonder if you were to take the advice, that is also often given here, to really look after yourselves. I can now understand the underlying motivation of the womens liberation movement. As I see it it is perhaps motivated by the need for women to learn to be happy in themselves ie liberated from the men that so often dominate their lives.. and the men who do this are also so often their husbands.
Now... I am not suggesting it is time to become extremists and go off and say you don't need us men. No. I think I am feeling that I would like to read about more women here who take a step back and look at themselves and say "Well, you know, I am pretty OK aren't I". After all, it is often the women who do most of the caring and loving that keeps the world a better place for us humans to live in. And those stupid men who go out to make lots of $ and play wiht their toys (you know cars, computer games etc..)... Well these men are really missing out aren't they. When you look at it, it is the women who are often far more close to the things that really matter ie like love and care and simply being there for the other humans round them.
So my advice to you two is to take this step back and take a look. My view is that you are both pretty wonderful people. But what I want is that you don't need me or anyone else to say this to you. I want you to know in yourselves that you are both really splendid and magnificent. YOu as women have the pain and the joy in your hearts that us menfolk need. Please hold those things and share them with us. As a man I know how much I owe to the womenfolk out there, staring with my mother and all the others that have created so much care and tenderness.
May we all learn such things and value them.
Please start to appreciate yourselves. We men need women who love themselves too you know.
May you be happy,
Jerry
I hope you are feeling more peaceful today.
For a long, long time I spent most of my thoughts and tears on 'why my H didn't do x, y, z'.
Now, I spend my tears on why I didn't do x, y, or z when it was clear he was not going to. I cry for myself, and all the painful time I gave myself permission to be involved in my H's nasty departure from decency and reality. I think I am getting off ligt-my sentance is just 'time served'.
I wish a change for you. Some kind of change in circumstance. Something to get off the hard road you are on and onto a detour, or scenic route, anything but that long drag you have been traveling for so long now.
Cheers girl,
NM
I know exactly what you mean. My H says that i am insecure when I tell him that I really need to 'feel' that he is in love with me. He has never broken down, and begged me to stay, telling me of his undying love!!! Ops fairy tales again.
I have said that I need him to say not just ' Ilove you' but take a sincere moment out of the blue and say it with such conviction that it blows my mind away. I wanted it to be a spontanious(spelling?)moment that he did not have to try to do or even plan. I wanted him to say if from his soul.
H's reply - I am hurt that you think I dont love you! He says he has been trying so hard to make thinks right. He has, he makes dinner regularily, he is doing DIY on every day off, he is going to the shops for groceries and even hangs out the washing now and again!! H says this is his way of trying to please me and show that he cares. He thought he was showing he loved me by his actions.
When he gets angry, he also says that if he didn't love me, he would not stay and take the emotional batterings that I have given him over the past year!
It just seems that he/men? (except for Jerry and others on this site who have found themnselves) are on a different wave length.
So Carol what I am trying to say, is that your H is not really directing this lack of demonstrative love at you, I just think men are not really capeable of displaying their feelings in the way we would like them to. I suppose it's a bit of the stiff upper lip situation which has been drummed into them since childhood.
Jerry - Wow I have read your posts lately, and I can hardly believe your calm reflectiveness of each situation. I wish for you continued contentment and peace with yourself.
I'm sorry you're having a down in dumps period. You've made such progress. Have you discussed this in IC? We live like one big bruise that never heals. I don't want you to become constantly depressed, it's a lonely hard road. Talk to your C and maybe there is some prescription that can keep you level? HUGS, E
C definately noticed that I was bummed out. He said I must of had a lot of triggers lately and he is right. Those darn triggers! Easter was a HUGE trigger and then this week was just a bad week, and I felt an extra disconnect between me and H.
H came home extra late twice last week and left extra early several days...BIG triggers. The funny thing is I cant even remember what explanations he even gave me and I told C that. I said I guess I have heard every excuse in the book and it doesnt matter why H had to leave early and come home late. Everything H said just blended together, and went in one ear and out the other. I told C, basically I just didnt want to hear where he was going or what he was doing. During the A everything was a lie...ever place he said he was going, everthing he said he needed to get done for the pizzeria...ALL LIES to go off and be with OW. I am so traumatized by all the lies that even when he is telling the truth it still feels like lies and I just numb myself. And when I get like that I get depressed. I think this is that "self protect" mode.
Another trigger was last night. H always celebrates whatever holiday, birthday or special day the night before because usually he doesnt get home until after midnight, so technically it is that day. Last night we celebrated my birthday, which is today. It was just about two weeks before my birthday 2 years ago that H broke up with OW. I turned the big four-OH. D-day was soon to follow on June 15 of that year. And then of course there is the dreaded birthday card. H used to always write beautiful, romantic, and heart-felt sentiments on the blank side of the cards before the A. And now he only signs his name. Every time he gives me a card I cry. H probably thinks they are tears of happiness, when they are in fact tears of pain. But he did surprise me with a beautiful cake from my favorite bakery, and the most gorgeous red roses from my favorite florist. Which cheered me up quite a lot, but still, with the card, and all the other triggers over the last several weeks, it was not enough to pull me out of this funk that I am in. At least he did try to some extent, which is very nice, and more than he usually does. I guess I should be happy...but I need more than crumbs.
I have to tell you, from how I envisioned your H I am surprised that he got you roses and a special cake. Maybe he is trying just a little. I don't know if its too little too late or not, you are teh only one who can decide that. Did you tell him it was thoughtful of him and that you appreciated it? I know my H feels he can never do the right thing, he says it is because I don't let him know when he has done something thoughtful.
Have you ever followed him to see wehre he is going when he leaves for work early? I know you wanted to look into a PI, have you done that? Maybe if you new where he was going when he left for work early or came home late it would help you with your decision. If he is truly working then you might feel a sense of hope, but if you knew he was up to no good then you would have hard evidence to help you leave the marriage.
Try to have a good day today. Go get a mainucure and pedicure, that always make me feel good. I think I'm going to go do that for myself today
Yes, I tell H that I appreciate everything. I told him how beautful the flowers were and how thoughtful the cake was. Yes, I see that he was trying. But I also see a cycle going on here.
H sees me a little depressed....H gives me crumbs to make me happy...I take crumbs...I am happy for awhile....H sees me a little depressed....
Dear Carol,
Your postings keep making me want to think about how to make love work. Can I answer with two things that have come up in my life in the last 24 hours. They are not huge but they may provide some insight.
Firstly I was talking to my wife about some of the postings here last night and explaining how stupid some men are and how insensitive they are and even downright cruel. She asked for some more details about one posting and I explained. Her reaction was that the women concerned should at least be grateful that her H was still there, that he had done something for her even if it had not felt romantic or spontaneous etc.. She was looking at it from a different perspective to me and I had got into a sort of fixed view about tne insensitive male way.
Secondly I was throwing something into our kitchen rubbish bin (trash in US) and found some torn up cards and papers. I (nosey) took a look and realised that these were things like Christmas cards that my wifes OM had given us (ie signed by OM and his wife and to both of us - we knew them quite well). I connected this with someting she had said last night like "You know I was looking at my collection of cards and things (she keeps a box of them) and noticed that you always used to give me cards wiht some kind and thoughtful words in them". So, at that time last night I did the stupid man male thing of not following up and recognising the fact that she had been clearing out her old things and getting rid of references to OM (a sort of link to her mental clear out). And she did not really convey to me what thoughts and feelings she had been having (I will ask her tonight). So you see, what I see here is that in a way both of us were not really communicating very well. And she had found, I suspect as her fog clears, that actually I am and have not been that insensitive man but have continued to show her love and kindness all these years. Years during which she has constructed a self defence mechanism in which I am not doing such things as this might be too difficult to cope wiht in her divided and deluded mind.
My conclusions from this are for me to:
- Be open minded
- Don't let preconcieved attitudes or mind-sets enable me/us to ignore the good things
- Work on communication
- Let WS find her way back into the real world ie give her time
((((Carol)))))
I know those past lies are hard to break free from. My H lied about his whereabouts and thoughts for the past year. It's very hard now to trust even the simplest things he says. If at all possible, I do check up on it, but the fact remains that I can't check on everything. H and the OW work in the same school together and found time for sex in the school bathrooms during school time. So, my point is, even when he says he's where he's suppose to be, that's not much consolation. Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't be better off not having know that tidbit of the A trivia. But I asked, and he confessed. For that I give him credit. I still want to puke, but I give him credit.
Your birth is special, because you are special. You have helped me when I'm down with your kind words and posts.
Please salvage the remains of this day as a tribute to yourself and your needs. After all, that's what's really important right now.
JJ
I feel that I know you, and would be proud to walk with you.
Give yourself a little treat and say happy birthday from you.
Ps have you mentioned to your H that you are being hurt when he does not write in your cards? He maybe feels that you woud consider this to be insincere, and perhaps lies. I know if my h started telling me how much he loved me etc... although it is what I would really love to hear, I might just wonder if he really meant it or was just saying it?? I'm probably getting myself in a muddle now! so he may not be writing it in case you take the wrong meaning from it or even get upset? I'm trying to give him the benfit of the doubt as you will see! lol (ps I just found out what this means) I always though it was lots of love!! now I know it means laughing out loud - great, I love it. Makes so much more sense now!
x
I am still in your birthday in my time zone so Happy Birthday dear Carol. And if you go thinking I forgot like a stupid man.. or didn't take the hint etc.. then please put it down to me being just that.. a stupid man.
Be happy,
Jerry
Jerry,
From your words and honesty, I can tell that you are NOT a stupid man - truly the contrary; I find you quite brilliant.
Have a peaceful weekend everyone. I will have my talk with my H tonight.
JJ
I'm sorry that you've been bummed...and isn't it amazing when our C's can totally see that when we walk in? I remember one session when I walked in and he looked at me, I looked at him and said, "what?" and laughed...he said..what's wrong. He totally knew something was up.
Triggers are bad things...but we can only work through them, not avoid them...and continue on. You totally know that and I know you do it. But, sometimes we have times when it's hard to work through them. It's good that you post when you are having particularly bad times - I don't always do that. Keep doing it!
I'm glad that your H acknowledged your birthday with flowers and a card...I'm glad to see that.
Take care honey and keep moving forward...you're doing a great job!!!
The down you are feeling are the triggers playing their games with our minds.
Carol I still struggle with my anniversary,,,and my birthday...I can become a water fountain during end of march, all April and thru mid may...this year so far have been good.
So much better since El told me to take control of my days.....but the past 3 years were awful...so it does get better. I wanted to run away from home and leave H... 2 years ago...we don't celebrate the anniversary...my birthday is just trigger big time...so for you because it is close to D- Day...it is a down time...my guess is that if you looked at last year you were feeling down during this time too.
<<Her reaction was that the women concerned should at least be grateful that her H was still there, that he had done something for her even if it had not felt romantic or spontaneous etc.. She was looking at it from a different perspective to me and I had got into a sort of fixed view about tne insensitive male way.>>
Jerry,
I went back and re-read your post because you made some great points. Although I loved what you wrote this part stood out to me. I have to tell you that what your wife said certainly sounds like something a WS would say (male or female). If my H is not willing to work on the marriage itself and do the things I have asked him to do, why should I be grateful that he stayed? Just because my H stayed, doesnt mean he is doing anything besides staying. Yes, he is civil, and we get along for the most part, but he is addicted to drugs and is a workaholic who had an affair. And I am supposed to be grateful? Grateful for what? I don't get it! Maybe it's just me, but he should be grateful that I have stayed
Good day Carol. I have asked my wife about what you said ie that what she said about someone being lucky that their H had stayed. You had said that it was typical WS talk. Well.... Here is what she said (and I did think she meant it this way). She meant that it is very important to appreciate what you have and not what you don't have. It was as simple as that. Please don't get angry with me for saying this.
May you be peaceful,
Jerry
No way would I be angry at you Jerry. But honestly, I did appreciate what I had. I was pretty happy before the A but my H has changed so much. It was my H who did not, and who still does not appreciate what he has. I told and still tell him how much I appreciate him...he does not do the same for me. In fact, he has told me that he has nothing to lose. Does that sound like he appreciates what he has?
There is only so much dishonesty and disrespect you can take in a relationship. I am nearing my breaking point, that is all. I tell him my needs and he ignores me.
I hope your wife TRULY appreciates what she has in you Jerry. You're a keeper
Take care...Carol~
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Apr 30, 2006 5:27 PM
I don't know what to say again to you Carol. The words that your husband said feel like he is completely lost to me. He sounds desperate. Almost as if he simply is crying for help. I don't know what to suggest. Are you really going to split up with him? I feel that your love is so deep you will stay whatever he throws at you. Perhaps he is trying to test this in his way - I know that sometimes I push my Mrs to see how firm she is or how she really feels under pressure.. sort of proving it to myself. My honest feeling still is that he loves you completely and deeply and it is as if all you need is some sort of event to bring about the realisation you both have. I wonder if and what event that may be. I really don't know what to suggest Carol. I do feel that you know the answer in your heart and if you look it will tell you what to do. So don't listen to a silly old man (I know I am not allowed to say that but it is how I feel).
May your whole family be happy,
Jerry
This message has been edited by JerryBond on Apr 30, 2006 5:43 PM
...Carol~
