I had no idea you were talking to yourself.

I'd like to add to your pep talk that just as you have the choice to tell him to go, you also have the choice to stay simply because that is what you decide suits you best. You can decide what is best for yourself and everyone you love and you're not required to take into account your husband's needs or desires.

I think if MikeTx who made a conscious decision to stay and "get past" the affair his wife had, not because he was weak, or because she had some control over him, but because that is what he chose to do.

Tom

Carol

You sound so strong. I wish I could feel that strong. In some ways I know that if I can't come to terms with my H's A and decide to end my mariage, I will survive, but on the other hand that seems so scary.

Since I been visiting these boards (about three months) I think you have really changed. You seem much more self assured and confident. It seems you have come to terms with the fact that your H is no longer the man you thought he was (or that he once actually was before his accident). Coming to terms with the fact that the person we thought we knew so well had a different side to them is very difficult. I am having quite a hard time getting past that.

I hope you all the best Carol. It really does seesm you have been to hell with your H.

Lisa

Dear Carol, I too have had the same feeling about HH and in some ways was feeling a bit relaxed about the calm - almost as if we were lucky not to be dealing with drama so much.  I was also thinking of you last night and talked to my wife about you... sorry if this is impolite to say here, I don't want to upset you.  I was thinking of your situation and also some other people on HH.  I have noticed how often it is the women in marriages who struggle so very hard and accept such great burdens to make others happy.  I have come to understand through HH much better how the life of women can be and I thank you and others for this.  My heart goes out to people here and sometimes I just wish I could help you all in some way as if we are really one big family.  And saying that, I feel almost like that.  I do feel quite attached to you all.  But there is a strength in our large family, a benefit in the way we reach out from all corners of the world to express our care and share our deepest inner feelings.  It does feel like love to me that we are generating here.  And yet.. there is sometimes such little apparent love coming back from some of our WS and, I notice, often rather cool hearted men.  It may be that it is my own perspective that is making me notice this and I am quite accepting this is a personal view. 

I have also learned from my own situation as well as others here that we have to be happy in ourselves in order to be able to generate and share such love with others.  And related to this I have learned to adopt and accept the mind-set which lets me live closely and openly in a loving way with the person who has hurt me more than any other in my life.  This mind-set is one where I can see my situation with some clarity as if I am looking at myself from a distance ie with some perspective.  I am mindful of what is going on.  I believe you have grown to be mindful too.  In this situation, as Tom says, you can be happy to stay even in an imperfect situation with your H.  But, also, and importantly, as you say, and as I feel myself, we also need to be free to leave if we have to.  It seems to me that it is all a balance and, in the end, I feel I will split up with WS if we do not make each other happy.  I cannot and will not try to hold on to a partnership which does not work.  Surely this is the only true love and kindness you can offer your partner.  And it is also this realisationand mind-set which is already helping us to heal separatealy in this situation.  We both know where we stand and it is clear that our goal is happiness for both of us and we know that if this does not mean the marriage lasts then that will be also ok.  I hope this does not sound cruel and heartless because that is not how it is.  However, it is realistic and we both clearly know where we stand.  As I watch and help my wife to emerge from her fog and to delve deep into herself I can see the healing going on, painful though it is for us both still. 

In your situation you still have a problem in that your H is not, seemingly doing the work to get to grips.  In fact your postings give me the impression that he is mistreating you and creating a sort of prison cell of a marriage in which your life is minimised to become a sort of mother to his children and house and bed-servant to him.  Sorry if this is blunt.  But your choice at some point must be based on the long term prospects of happiness for all, including, of course and in particular, your children.  If I was you I would do exactly what you are doing and you express it so well in your postings.  I would perhaps now try to cast your mind forward and consider if you were at the end of your life (may it be a very very long time  away!), just how would you feel about the life you had led.  I find this sort of perspective helps me decide sometimes how to act now. 

I would only say right now that you have love from those on HH as well as those closer to home.  May you be happy,

Jerry

Dear Carol
You post expresses my feelings precisely. H is eager for the mess to be over and things back to an even keel. I really still struggle with the guilt vs. remorse issue and feel that if he were remorseful that would show in caring for me all the time, not just on melt-down days. I need, want, and deserve more.

H and I have been on such a flat-line carosel that this rollercoaster is a real switch in life. He won't talk about things. Another issue is honesty vs. openness. I am pretty sure that neither is anywhere near being in place.

I am keeping things together until Mother's Day. My youngest arrives home from college this week and leaves next week for summer study abroad. All four will be here for Mother's Day. Today I am seeing Sunday as a "last family gathering" before having a committment showdown with H. I need to know that he is wants to preserve a marriage - not just a family and community standing.

Keep posting. It helps so much hearing from strong, confident, capable people surviving and hoping to thrive.

Ivory

carol mate

i have told you before how wonderful it is to watch you grow into yourself.

this post from you is another example of where you have been and where you are now, and it is wonderful to see this journey, whereever it leads you, it is your journey, as a BS you are getting it, the IT that a BS needs to get.

you might get a laugh from this. today i was out at a work lunch and one of the women was talking about her mum who is going through a separation, primarly because of the A her mum's husband had/is having.

the work collegue said "he keeps ringing her to say he wants to fix things, get back together and SHE keeps trying to make it work and do ALL the work"

i said to her. "hon you need to let your mum understand what she can control and change - he can ring and say he wants to be father christmas, but she cant make him be that, only he can - tell your mum to give herself a break and sit back to be realistic about what she can really achieve"

she laughed and said "hey that is cool, i shall tell her that"

so carol i am saying the same to you, you cant make your H be father christmas even if he says he wants to be that. seems like you are learning this.

god's speed to you and many hugs as you keep going.
kath
ps if there is a spare ticket to italy i can be a good bag carrier hahahhahaha

Carol,

You are "getting there" with style and grace. I commend you for your acceptance, ability, and attitude. While everyone must walk their own path to healing, we all have much in common and your understanding of choice is one of the major "forks in the road." (As Jane might say) I would encourage you to continue your search for healing and personal growth in the direction you have taken. As you now understand, it's not so much what happens to us as it is what we "say to ourselves" about what has happened to us. It's there we find the dragons, as you know.

My own journey to understanding choice and life-change was similar to watching a tornado in progress...I was unable to stop the destruction, but eventually when almost everything was blown away I could for the first time see who I really was. I guess in some way I should be thankful for that struggle, because I doubt I would have learned how to really live otherwise...and now I love life with a passion I wouldn't have known. That may sound strange to some folks, but I suspect you have begun to see that possibility. I just wanted to encourage you by saying that it's real and attainable. In time, you will know the peace and strength to face all that life offers you Carol. I admire your integrity.

Tom, I'm honored that you remembered the post dealing with choice, inevitable changes, and etc. That was sometime last year when El prompted me to post on the subject of my own journey toward healing. I've determined since then that it's probably a hopeless gesture for me to try and offer "shortcuts" in the healing process to those in the earlier stages of recovery. It seems that most BS's just need the love and support of community for awhile until they (like Carol) can begin to discover for themselves the truths which life somehow hides from us. The journey is long and difficult, but the destination is worth the trip. That much I can attest to...

Thanks Mike - you reminded me of something that I have learned with help from others here too - It is about the choice that you hold being one to stay inside a difficult relationship (perhaps while it is healing) and know in your heart that you could still end  up separating.  It seems like a strange sort of choice to some at first but knowing that you can live with whatever the outcome and you have that freedom does bring great honesty and ... in particular allows one to appreciate the new open space and honesty that can emerge from the post atomic fall out of the A.  Like you Mike I am hoping for a better life to emerge.. and can see that is a possibility.  My concern for Carol is that her man simply does not seem to be getting the point and is stuck in a repeated cycle of cutting himself off from the person/ people that can give him most in life.  How do you cut through in that situation?

May you find peace and happiness,

Jerry

CAROL:


Thanks for sharing your thoughts about realizing it's time to choose 'You" over your husband.
The same thoughts have slowly been dawning on me. I've always read that it's important to be good to yourself, but maybe I've not really understood it until now.
It's odd that we find ourselves in such similar situations; my marriage, for better or worse (and this is worse) is dead, and yet I'm not ready to throw it in the coffin yet, mostly because of the kids.
Maybe this is more of a blessing than I realize. I've come to see that too often in life, I've relied on others to find my value.
It wouldn't be bad at all for me to come to that point in life where I just enjoy the heck out of "me" and become truly comfortable in my skin.....and learn to love life without "having to" have my wife's love.
That doesn't mean I have to be a doormat.....but if I've hit a brick wall....and I cannot otherwise control the circumstances without filing for divorce ... and I'm not ready to do that....then that leaves just learning to enjoy life as it has come to me at this juncture....and to enjoy myself, my children.
Still, there's that tug in my heart toward relationship.....a craving to know, and be known, to love, and be loved, deeply, and without reserve.
But I can still know the love of a father for his children, a friend for his friends, a brother for his siblings, a worker for his coworkers, and a son for his mother. I need to burrow into that, and enjoy it.
I'm torn. That sounds like a good path to walk.
And yet I'm impatient. I'm not sure which way is the right path. I don't want to be a doormat. I don't want to "settle." Am I? That's the question I have to answer for myself.
My best to you Carol, and all the others on this board.
Oh, and I love the poetry quotes. What a blessing.

Blessings to all.

JiminTexas

Hello again, Carol and, sorry, but once again I feel I can add something to Jim's comment.  It reminded me of a description of love that I read not long ago.  It described love not as a reaching out and a grabbing of someone else but a personal taking down of the fences around yourself - a sort of opening up to others or another.  I quite like this idea as a link to the idea of working on yourself.

May you be happy,

Jerry

Jerry - I love that! Love is taking down the fences around you in order to truly give to the other person. Those fences being whatever stands in the way of true intimacy. Those fences being our fears, our bad habits, whatever it may be. For my FWS, the fences would be his fear around truly being himself and communicating his needs and wants.

I like that.

Thanks for sharing.

Hope

I am speechless!  WOW!  I brought Mike out of hiding. Hi Mike   And Jim too...Hi Jim

I don't know what happened.  I don't know when the tides turned.  It just sort of came to me the other day...choice!  I have been choosing everyone else over myself, my H especially.  It is time I did what was best for me...to stand up for myself and say I matter.  But not that I matter to H, or my family, or anyone else...but that I finally matter to me!  That was hard.  I put so much of my self worth in my H and marriage, in my children and family, in my business and  NONE in me.

Although I wanted to matter to everyone else, I didnt much matter to myself.  I would bend over backwards to help everyone else but me...because I had no self worth.  It took me some time to actually understand what self worth meant.  I finally get it....I am worthy of love. I am worthy of happiness. I am worth it...I could not have said that 2 years ago.  2 years ago I wanted to know what was wrong with me...why H didnt love me like I loved him...why H did this to me. What did I do wrong? Now, I know the answers to those questions.  I did nothing wrong. H didnt do this to me, he did it to himself and for himself.  H walks all over me because I somehow feel that is all I am worth. Not anymore.  I have value.  It doesnt matter if H feels it or not, I know it!!! And that is how I got the point of choice and choosing me.  Choosing to live my life...choosing what is best for me...even if it is not what is best for everyone else. I finally know that I have a choice...and that feels good.  It feels liberating

Thank you all for your wonderful replies.  I had tears running down my face as I read them...because you get it!  You understoodd what I was trying to say and you have supported me through my journey of self discovery  

Carol~

 

(((((Carol))))

What a wonderful post...

You are where you need to be...you have found the magic word. Choice

choice you make today is what is best for you...it may change tomorrow...but it is all about you...it is really empowering for you to realize that you count and you are making the choice as to what you do..

Hugs,

Pat

This is such a great post. It's true that you can want your partner to be santa claus and he can want to be it too but it doesn't mean you can help him be it.

Jerry - i loved that idea about the taking down the fences. By the way, isn't that what happens with affairs. They don't have high enough fences or they start to get lower and lower? But that is one of the things that I have learned. I have much stronger relationships with friends, my children etc because I learned to show people more of me without fear.

Jim, I can relate so much to what you say. I read some buddhist stuff that said that you shouldn't wait for your life to be 100% happy to be happy. Just appreciate the things that are good and try to deal with the rest. I realised that my friends were still good, my job was still good, my kids were still good. That put enough fuel in my tank to keep me ticking on a bit longer.

But like you, I have a craving to be wanted, to be held, to feel loved. Sometimes my defences break down (like this week) and I really want my husband to be someone who he is not. It's so counter-productive because instead of feeling loved and wanted, i feel rejected, I complain, he gets frustrated, I feel even more lost.

So I am lost again and back into the trap of thinking that there must be someone out there who would really love me the way I need it. It saps my strength and i am too weak then to see all the good things. Like you, I am not ready to quit but I am surely letting go of the idea that my husband is the one who is going to protect me.

Bela

(((((Bela))))) You deserve to be hugged and loved. Settle for nothing else; life is short.

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

I started reading a new book "Lies at the Altar" and I thought of you Bela...you sound like you are suffering, as am I. The book is pretty good so far and I can really relate to  so much of it...the following is from the book.

Take Care...Carol~

__________________

LIE: You can learn to live with compromises that trouble your soul and make you suffer, and call it love.

TRUTH: Suffering is not love.

"When I met Theo, I knew my needs.  I had my list of negotiable and nonnegotiable items, but I somehow got unplugged from them. I kept telling myself things were acceptable when they weren't."

In a 3 year period, Martha watched he nonnegotiable list shrink to nothing.  There were always extenuating circumstances, and she stretched her mind to the snapping point trying to accomidate Theo.

"My world was shrinking to a hard little ball", Marth a said, "but I kept telling myself he was worth it."

"Worth the obliteration of your happiness?" I asked. "Worth the alienation of your friends and children? Worth losing your self respect?"

Martha was ashame that she had so easily forsaken her needs once she married Theo, but she didn't want to be alone again. She comforted herself with the justification that marriage was about compromises, and that she could live with her compromises. Then one day Theo suggested taht because their marriage was good in every way but sexually, he could have sex outside of teh marriage and take the pressure off her. "I actually found myself contemplating it", she said. "That's when I realized I had lost my inner compass."

I often find that people, especially women, enter marriage not knowing what their needs are or how to ask for what they want. But even when you know your needs, it's easy to get sidetracked if you are driven by fear of rejection, loneliness, or conflict.

________________________

Ask yourself: Have you made concessions that once seemed unthinkable, or accepted the unacceptable out of fear?