This question is the key to where I am at this moment. I can't look at him without getting angry within.His actions have disgusted me and I don't know if I can get past them. Not just the affairs but the lying and disreguard for our 36 years together. He wants to stay married but I can't see it... I'm afraid of living alone etc., but I'm afraid of living with the uncertainty and negative feelings I have toward him now as well. Does anger mean I love him still?
This is so complicated!
I am with you Diane. I would welcome some advice too. What I have heard is that there is a period of no-feeling that can set in. I am told that this may even be a progessive stage in the process to healing. In my case I am really quite calm and not-angry.. but there are some here who think I am.. not sure how or why we/ I would know this though. In my calm I really begin to feel (and know inside) that somehow our relationship may be was simply not ok ie was rather weak and not deep and mutually empathetic and loving. I know from my side I may have made the mistake of simply believing it was all ok and believing so strongly I just did not test our connection. I know I had become happy in myself.. and as a married person I suppose I had happy marriage as part of that scene.. But now it is all exposed for what it really was I have to reassess and be mindful of the fact that things were simply not good between us. Now, I know that the next thing that can come up is that people here say that it was all WS problems .. and yes this is true too.. but it doesn't make the marriage all right does it. I suppose I have got to a place where I am really checking out the connection ie feeling what there is REALLY between us. And .. it does not feel like the sort of deep down connection I suppose we might expect .. ? Does this make any sense?
Jerry, I believe you are in the same (or similar)place I am. I am trying to recall my life with H during those 36 years and am remembering times that I wasn't happy with the relationship. I felt he didn't understand me... we weren't really very close. I went to C alone since he said it was my problem... HE was fine. I remember crying alot after arguements. I didn't know how to deal with our differences. I have ALWAYS tried to be positive and gave in to his wants and needs. I sort of lost myself in the process and I think that has made me unhappy over the years. Later I just started to do things I liked without him such as join a choir and continue my studies (MA). I worked a lot too. He also was a work-a-holic for most of our married life. I took on myself the responsibility of the children for the most part (4). He wasn't in to sharing the diaper changing and later going to teacher meetings. However,they grew up fine. Our conversations never really focused on feelings unless I was being upset AGAIN for some reason... we never really learned how to discuss our feelings in a good way I guess. He was always full of telling me how I should deal with MY problems... telling me what I should do. Never validating me that I had a reason for being upset. Later when he started his Internet contacts I discovered he was full of conversation with these women.... hmmm.
They stroked his ego, I guess, something that I guess I couldnt do enough.
Sorry I'm rambling. Trying to face the fact that we weren't a good match to begin with and maybe that's the reason for his A.
Diane and Jerry
It seems that we are all in the same boat - long-term relationships lacking deep emotional connection and struggling about what to do next. When I first discovered H's A I placed all blame for marital problems on this one situation. We have been separated for nearly two months and the time apart has caused me to reflect more realistically on the course of our 32 years together. We were quite content as a child-rearing team, raising four successful and productive human beings and seldom experiencing anything more negative than a "bicker" between us. But even during that period of happiness, I do not recall ever being "close". Our conversations centered on the situation of our children (homework, sports/activities, problems, social obligations, etc.) and never anything intimate or personal. But we were too busy in our separate lives (me as SAHM, he as earner) to notice anything lacking.
Through work H came into contact with a woman who expressed interest in him as a person and he felt safe sharing more and more with her. Their emotional connection grew and ultimately became a full-out love affair. Although he never attempted to share his feelings with me, I also never encouraged him to do so nor opened my heart to him. The A was the catalyst for our marital demise but really we had lived parallel lives for our entire married life. During the period after d-day in which we tried to reconcile we, too, resonded to one another only in times of great emotionality. We were never able to break free from this cycle. Perhaps the behavioral patterns were too ingrained or the lack of trust made each of us unwilling to try hard enough. I have learned a great deal from this and hope to bring myself to a future relationship with a heart and mind open to truly connecting with another.
If you decide, as I did, that there is not enough left of the M to salvage please know that it is possible to emerge healthy and strong. It has been difficult and sometimes lonely, but I feel more hopeful now than I have in a long while. There is another life awaiting you - either alone or in a healthier M. Stay strong, think clearly, and you will soon KNOW the best course.
Ivory
I appreciate your input and you seem to have been in a similar situation except that your WS found his solution in one affair. My H had two short affairs one year apart with women he met on the INternet... he also had cyber sex with multiple women during the same time and up until d#3. He was looking for a mistress on an Internet dating site when I "busted" him. Tomorrow we start counseling. I'll go for IC and then we'll go for MC. Did you do the counseling? You said that you and H couldn't get out of the habit of relating in the old way... was this after counseling? How long did you try? Did H cut off contact with OW? I'm wondering how long to keep trying. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. We went to counseling after d#2 but it didn't change the way we related to each other in the long run,ie the emotional intimacy wasn't there.
Thanks for your caring, I appreciate it so much... you too Jerry.
Diane,
Thanks for asking that question. I have only been married 13 years and can actually relate to what you are saying. I know that H and I grew apart once the kids and the careers came into place. But I also knew that no matter what, I would never stray. I also believed that he wouldn't either because we have worked so hard together to get where we're at. So after his A, I just don't know about him anymore. I too don't know if I can love him the way I once did. Thimgs are just not the same anymore.
You're not alone in feeling like you do. I had been married for 13 years, a SAHM to two kids, when I discovered that my husband had been looking online for women to meet in our area and also e-mailing women and receiving nude photos of them. A few months after this I discovered he was having an affair with someone at work. This all came to a head in Feb. 03. We separated for a while and slowly have began to try to repair and continue with the marriage. I never thought he would stray either, as Jetta said. I was raised in a home full of infidelity and have very strong feelings about it. He knew this.
I too do not believe I will ever feel the love and security I felt before with him. But in its place I now love myself more and am more secure with being me. I also feel that if I totally "forgive" him, it is like telling him its OK, no big deal. We have two kids together, and as a family unit we work well. I just take everything one day at a time.
I believe that feelings of love aren't enough. We must have actions to accompany the feelings.
Ivonne, I don't think your marriage was very much different from many people's marriages. I don't think many of us learn as children how to communicate about ourselves. We learn to communicate about our environment, our situations in life, but not about our feelings, our dreams, etc.
I believe that when a couple has been devastated by infidelity and yet chooses to work together as a team for the good of the marriage and family, that the intimacy we achieve through that hard work enables us to feel safe to feel love for the other partner. I guess the key is that we each allow ourselves to be vulnerable to the other and thus present each other with the opportunity to show love and in turn receive love.
I choose to love my H even more now than before because I see how hard he has worked to understand what was broken inside himself that enabled him to do the things he did. I believe people can change and heal, as exhibited by Sun, David, my H, and many others. In the process of working to help my H heal, I, too, have healed from many wounds suffered during my life.
The process takes TIME (there's that word again ) and hard work from both spouses, but I believe that my marriage is so much better now than preA. Not only are my H and I better people, but our daughters have reaped the benefits too, and we parents know that we all want our children to be strong, HEALTHY adults. I believe my H and I have given our girls a gift we were never given as children: the gift of learning to love oneself.
Just my fairy cents' worth,
fairyfriend
Johnny Nash's song lyrics express my feelings quite well.
"I Can See Clearly Now"
I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.
I think I can make it now, the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I’ve been prayin?for
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.
Look all around, there’s nothin?but blue skies
Look straight ahead, nothin?but blue skies
I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.
i totally get this thread. i wish i could express myself half as much as you guys. i totally understand these feelings and especially what jo said. these are some of the very basics to affairs and the feelings they cause. i learned a lot from this conversation and hope you discuss it lots more cause i feel like you are echoing my feelings on a lot of levels. JO i agree and feel the same way about making things seem like it was okay and that is one of the biggest fears i think many feel when they forgive their partners. sure they suffer for a while but if they end up with a wonderful marriage anyway it almost makes one think that they got rewarded and ate the cake too. i have a very hard time with that and it hinders my feelings of forgiveness and feelings of trust and adoration that i once felt. in the future if he did it again i would feel such the fool, however if he dont i still have a hard time trusting. when you learn the "ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER" opinion it is so hard to shake no matter how hard you try.
Believe me, for the first year or so, I struggled mightily with the idea that I got dumped on, my H had "fun" and got to keep his marriage. I felt like I lost everything and suffered, and he got rewarded for misbehaving. But as I got further along, I realized that he most decidedly did NOT have fun. He had lies, guilt, confusion, pain. He was terrified if I found out that I would leave him. When I found out, he had to live with himself knowing he caused the pain I was feeling. He was terrified I would leave him. He was depressed and sad. He was punishing himself for his actions.
I realized that not only did I not want to hurt any longer, but I didn't want him to hurt either. He worked so hard to understand what was broken in himself that he gave himself permission to have an affair. He knows if he did it again that I would leave him. But you know what? He doesn't ever want to be in that bad place again because not only did his actions hurt me and our children, but they hurt him too, and he doesn't want to hurt that way again either. He doesn't mind my checking up on him because he wants me to feel safe.
Give yourself time and watch to see what changes your H makes for HIMSELF because making positive changes and growing for himself means that he can become the man you thought you married.
Greetings
To answer your questions – yes, we tried counseling. I was in total shock when I discovered that he was involved in an A – it completely blindsided me. For the first time in my life I felt emotionally out of control. Likewise, my reaction completely shocked H. We had become so un-connected that I think he expected that I wouldn’t much care. H likes me well enough – I have always been a good mother and partner, we have a wonderful family and an amazing social circle. All in all, we enjoyed a great life together. But not a great marriage together. We attended counseling for about four months. I did not know it at the time, but H was still involved throughout that period and lied continually in the MC sessions. Not a recipe for a successful outcome. Either he was an amazing actor or I was totally out to lunch because I really thought we were making progress. After making small discoveries along the way, I became certain of continued involvement in May and I moved out. Again, he apologized, groveled, begged and seemed to be trying. We continued working on the M (or so I thought) even while we were separated. After my third major discovery, I asked HIM to move and filed for divorce. It was the right decision for me. I feel in my heart that I gave it my best effort. But enough is enough – I love life and was unwilling to squander any more time. My decision was made easier by my financial ability to easily live on my own and the fact that I have no young children at home.
Diane – do you completely believe in your H’s commitment to you and the M? And do YOU love him? I wanted so badly to believe and for months was terrified of being on my own. All through that time, my heart and gut told me not to trust – and they were right. Even my friends could tell he was lying through his teeth, but I was in denial. I hope that is not true in your case. How long to keep trying? I think your brain and heart need time to get into sync and grow strong enough to deal with a change in life plans. I wish you peace and contentment … Ivory
Jetta,
I know what you mean about not feeling the same. I was 3 yrs. old when my dad started having an affair. My mom 'forgave' him thinking he ended it. Turns out the affair lasted on and off with this woman for the next 10 yrs. until my dad left and married the OW.
I remember my mom telling me when I was about 13 yrs. old that "even if you forgive your husband for cheating it will never be the same again even if you stay together". I remember thinking, "whatever that means". I never gave that statement another thought again growing up.
Well here we are 28 years later and not only did it pop into my mind after all this time, but I finally understand what that statement now meant. I had to have it happen to me before I 'got it'.
I find my moms words so true. It's been 4 years since D-day for me and were still together (23 years) and H is/was remorseful. He can earn back trust and respect, but I can't help but think that something will always be missing from our marriage that we'll never get back.
This message has been edited by adarim on Sep 14, 2006 8:33 PM
Ivory,
Sorry I took so long to respond to your question... have been going to counseling and been very busy with the mundane day to day things in my life... couldn't really answer your question then. Do I believe H is committed to the M and me? I think he wants the marriage but is he committed to me? I don't feel it. He has never been able to promise me he will never do it again (A). He says no one can promise such a thing. (I don't buy that, I promised him fidelity and I have been faithful 36 years including 2 years since dday #1). He doesn't make any effort to engage me in intimate talks or tell me that he is sorry for my pain. At one point I lost it because I couldn't feel his remorse. I was pretty hysterical, so much so that he thought that I'd make myself sick. I don't usually act that way but, as I said, I lost it that day. My therapist said that my reaction was normal given the circumstances. She said that my taking a stand of not caving in and "automatically" taking him back after his last incident (dday #3) was a healthy reaction... a change for me.
Do I love H? No, I don't think I do really. He has killed it... I have lost my respect for him, I can't think of him as a lover. The thought repulses me. I see him as weak and self-serving.
Why don't I divorce him... the fear of change, of being alone, wanting to do everything I can to salvage things for the kids sake. Although they are grown, they asked me not to be too hasty... and not to have an ugly divorce if it doesn't work out. I'm also fearful of the divorce process itself.. the fighting over things like money and possessions.
Sorry for the long reply... just trying to figure things out. I still have a way to go.
Diane, I am with you too. But is this right really? I thought this morning like I was a train in a train station when really I should be going somewhere. Life should be lived.
) and hard work from both spouses, but I believe that my marriage is so much better now than preA. Not only are my H and I better people, but our daughters have reaped the benefits too, and we parents know that we all want our children to be strong, HEALTHY adults. I believe my H and I have given our girls a gift we were never given as children: the gift of learning to love oneself.