I'm looking for an outside the box solution to work for the good of all the family in my current situation with H who claims he must divorce, but at the same time appears to want to not be rejected by me or his children, and appears to not want to sell the home we built together (his dream home). And, who is living with OW and seemingly very "in love", but claims to still love me (as long as I am nice to him and do not mention the OW issue that is). This whole thing is just so strange I feel like I am living in some grade B movie.
Since I've never posted before, I will briefly give you-all the background:
I've been on the betrayed spouse roller coaster for 7 months now. After 20 year of marriage (a good one I thought), and two beautiful children, my 46 yo H (formerly the kindest, most hard working, most committed man and all around good guy) fell hard for his "true love".. the "mirror image" and "soul mate" yada, yada. The past few years have seen a lot of external trauma in the marriage, including parent deaths, disease, unprovoked crimanal assault (resulting in PTSD for H), job lost and found (with significant pay cuts), teen age children flexing their independence, and much time spent apart due to job requirements. And very minimal counseling for H... and NO marriage counseling (H refuses...says his family doesn't do counseling).
OW is 15 years my junior, has no kids, never married, and this is her 3rd married man with children in a row. My husband is the "man of her dreams" and she left her very rich boy friend for him (had an affair on rich bf a few weeks prior to meeting my H). Friends who have seen her with H say they "sizzle" together with much physical attraction. (sigh) Getting to this point has been about as traumatic as most of the stories on this website... but there have been several blessings in all of this, including getting me into IC, the shedding of those pesky middle age lbs (the divorce diet!), and a much needed opportunity to evaluate all of my life. Unbelievably, I have discovered I have a deep and profound love for my H... but this current state of his being may result in the end of our marriage. Our children are feeling about as shell shocked as possible, wanting NOTHING to do with dear old dad.
The crowning insanity to all of this is that H claims divorce will have us better friends and him a better father. I simply can not fathom this, as H now lives 8 hours away, has lied to me, refuses to accept any responsibility for what he is doing (he is deep in the fog), actually moved OW in with him for two months... into the house I grew up in!...puts most of his attention and energy into OW and her new home (H is very handy)... and our children want NOTHING to do with him now. H wants a divorce because he "intuitively knows this is the right thing to do". But has not taken any action towards this. I figure he is waiting for me, since this whole scenario is playing out remarkably like his own family where the father behaved badly and mom filed 18 months later.
Today H phones and snivels saying he must see his children and I can not keep them from him, and he plans to come visit next week... and he will be staying here with us, since his income pays for the house, etc. (and his number one complaint is I control him?). He also says maybe we can just be "separated" for a year or three, that way we do not need to sell the house, and the kids can stay in school here. (H earns 80% of the family income and we need this to keep the house). My take is H wants it all: the family here, the OW and true love there... his adoring wife to be a good friend, his children so appreciative of his wonderfulness. I am not sure how this can work... especially given the fact when I think about OW with H, I find no joy (just nausea). And, I think OW might push H to divorce (I hear rumor of this... she has big plans for H). So, I suppose I should not trust the man at all.
I dunno... I keep thinking this will all blow over. H is clearly out of character for him, but given the trauma issues, and his family background, and his current unwillingness to take any responsibility for what he is doing to himself, his family, friendships, etc... I wonder if I should move on asap so I can heal. Instead, of divorce, I am trying to find ANy outside the box solutions for this heart wrenching, nice guy turns into a self centered being and needs a divorce (but will not cope well with rejection because of the PTSD)... sort of... scenario?
FYI, right now, I would take him back in a heartbeat with significant provisions of course (one can dream!).
So... has anyone heard of what we are going through resulting in a better, more wonderful, family? A richer relationship? Better father/son interactions? More love... instead of less? Even with the divorce monster as part of the equation?
Also, given the extreme physical attraction of H and OW, is this whole thing simply a lost cause for the next many years?
Dear Swimmer,
So sorry you are in the predicament you find yourself. I personally don't have an answer for you but I'm sure the many good people here will rally and try to help. Just know this we are here to help and lend a shoulder when needed. Please take care of yourself and if I can think of any Outside the Box solutions for you, I'll add them on.
Diane
Your story reads like the classic A. All the ingredients and so much of what so many people experience.
Can I simply give you some feelings I have on reading your post:
- You love your husband very much and it sounds like real true love and not some idealised view of how you would like things to be. So.. you have come a really long way and are starting from a very good point. Your posting shows the real true nature of your heart. Thank you for showing us this.
- Your H is showing all the classic signs of the sex-charged mid-life mania that men can and do suffer from. Know that most probably his relationship with the other woman will not last and survive and grow.. This is based on the statistics. I suspect the reason for so many failed affair relationships is that they are not entered into whilst one of the partners is already tangled up in another relationship (by definition of course). This means that the person ie your H is still operating with the family support surround that you are giving him. He can't actually be himself fully with the other woman.
- The remedy right now may be for you to allow your H to find himself (often called "coming out of the fog" here). There are some standard piece of guidance given that may be appropriate and may not. One thing that I feel may work in your case is to be completely open with your communication of how you see things and how you want things to be.. In fact, surely this is a good thing. Forget his weaknesses - the trauma now being inflicted is going to be much greater than any other assault or traume he has already received in life. I would lay it out clearly to him how things can be ie what you feel is possible (reconciliation and rebuilding) and if not then how you see things going. And one of the main ingredients of real partnership breakdown has to be faced ie the move from close lover to friend.. (assuming you can make this move yourself). As a friend you will become free to find a new partner (that idea might wake him up a bit!).
- Prepare yourself for a separation if it is to be. Don't be cruel to yourself here in doing this. Just, softly in your mind know that there is that option. Don't choose yet to follow that line - and this gets me to one of the most frequently given pieces of advice.. and one that I find hard to take.. Give it time. Let things work themselves out and .. most probably, as things are.. the solution and way forward will come forward to you.
First off, let me tell you welcome to a site filled with compassionate, understanding folks. I am so sorry you have a need that brings you here.
That said, I challenge you to ask yourself how you are enabling your husband to continue his inappropriate behavior. So far it sounds like no matter what he does, you are always there to listen, to respond, to ROLL OVER.
If you want your H to wake up out of the fog, it sounds like it is way past time for you to stop the behaviors that have not made a difference in your marriage.
Actually, I was going to write more, but I realized that Carol had written a very eloquent post just a couple of days ago that pretty much discussed your concerns, so I am pasting it in here for you in case you missed it in the other message board.
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"Please remember this is a process and it took time. If you are looking for a quick fix this is not it!
It's All About You!
1) Find a good individual counselor: One who understood affairs really well. He understood the pain and devistation, and also understood what it takes from the BS and the WS for things to change. I believe that marriage counseling does not do much good until both the WS (why they had the A) and the BS (why we stay and put up with the WS behavior) both address their individual issues.
2) Stop trying to "fix" your WS: Your WS's issues are theirs alone to address and deal with. You cannot go through this process for them, so stop trying. They need to suffer the consequences of their actions in order to see that what they are doing is wrong. Nagging them doesnt work! Pointing out their flawed thinking doesnt work! They use your "attitude" as continued justification for what they are doing and it turns them off. You can certainly give your opinion on the subject and let the WS know where you stand, but the choice to continue the behavior and avoid addressing their issues, or not, is ultimately up to them. This is what we mean by the WS taking a good hard look at themselves and learn to deal with their issues and what allowed them to think it was OK to cheat. They need to fix themselves.
3) Be open to changing YOU first: If neither of you change you will remain polorized, stuck in limboland. Hence, if nothings changes, nothing changes. This goes with the saying " you can't keep doing the samething over and over again and expect different results."
You might say to yourself "it is my WS who needs to change not me. So why are you saying I need to change first?". Since you cannot change anyone but yourself and you know you cannot fix your WS, it makes sense to start with YOU. How do you react to what your WS says or does? What needs to change there? You need to change the way you react. The only way to do that is to look at why you react the way you do and think of reacting in a different way, one that will bring about positive change for you. Small behaviroal changes in the BS sends a message to the WS that you are no longer putting up with their behavior. It is now about what YOU want.
Here are some examples of the simple behavioral changes that I made at first:
H refused to come home for dinner: I stopped making dinner for him at midnight or later most of the time. The leftovers were in the fridge and he was welcome to them if he wanted them. Before I would cook him dinner when he got in the door.
H refused to come home within a decent amount of time after work: I stopped waiting up for him EVERY night like I had done for the past 15 years. I started going to bed by midnight.
H refused to call me and be accountable for his whereabouts: I stopped calling him to see what he was up to unless it was absolutely necessary to do so.
H refused to take time off to be with me and the kids: I stopped taking the kids to the pizzeria just so he could see them.
4) Take care of yourself: This means putting yourself first, before your WS. This means taking care of your personal issues and needs..taking care of yourself emotionally, spiritually, and physically, and in some cases financially. Try to depend upon ourself and your support network, and as little as possible from your WS. Focus on you and what you want from the marriage and from life in general. Make yourself a priotity! Do things for you! Stop focusing on your WS and what they are doing and what they want. This is about you now...get plenty of sleep, eat right, and exercise.
As you start to do all of the above you will start to feel better about yourself. You will eventually gain back much of your self esteem and self worth that had taken such a beating from the A and your WS's behavior. You will learn to trust yourself again after being so betrayed. You will not just say to yourself that you are worth it, you will actually believe that you are worth it and you will demand better for yourself. You will no longer put up with the crap and accept the crumbs. Soon you will want it all or nothing! You will no longer be able to just "settle". The more you take care of yourself you will be able to address your fears regarding staying or going.
5) Address your fears: Why do we stay many ask, and the answer for many of us is fear. Fear of what will happen to us without or WS. Fear of the unknown. There are finacial fears, fears about the children, and fears of what others will think of us. There are countless fears, all of which we have rationalized as a way of staying with our WS. Many will say they stay for love. Of course we stay for love but at what cost to ourselves? We pay a heavy price if we stay for love. If you have read any of the affair recovery books you have read by now that love is not enough. There must also be committment and respect. A WS is not commited nor do they respect you or they would not be doing what they are doing. They would be acting in loving and respectful ways. They would be remorseful and doing all they can to make the marriage work. Part of the problem is that we are not respecting ourselves because we are afraid to stick up for ourselves and address our own fears. Therefore, our fears must be addressed if we are to move forward.
Social Fears~ What will others think of me if I divorce?: In todays society divorce is very common and is not looked down upon the way it once was and does not carry the same social stigma it once did. However, you may still feel apprehensive. Usually when people know the true story of why you divorced, most will look at you as a strong person who got themselves out of a bad situation.
Financial Fear~ I cannot make it on my own: If you are a woman this may be a very real fear. My suggestion si to go to a lawyer and find out exactly what you are intitled to if you were to divorce. You may just find that your fears are unfounded. Also, as a way to protect yourself you can put away small sums of money in a private account and save until you feel safe enough to leave. Enough money for a few months is usually sufficient to make it on your own long enough to get a job or until you start to receive child and/or spousal support. You may also find that in a divorce you will be able to request support so that you can go back to school to learn a trade if you have been a stay-at-home-mom or to better your career.
What about the children~ Wont the children suffer? Honestly, if the parents are fighting the children are already being affected. Seperating or divorcing will likely end some of their emotional suffering and actually be a relief to them. It may be difficult for children at first but they are resilliant and adaptable. And I bet your child/ren know of at least one of their friends whose parents are divorced. They are definately not alone in their suffering. There are many support groups and counselling available for the children to cope as well, even at school. Even if they are not suffering right now, they know that something is not right. And eventually they will find out the truth. Better to hear it from you than a "friend or other family member".
Fear of being alone~ I will never find someone else and I will end up alone: Honestly, if your WS is detached, not commited or still cheating, YOU ARE ALREADY ALONE in your marriage! Freeing yourself from your WS can only bring opportrunity to find another if you allow it, and if that is what you want at some point in the future. It is up to you or not to be alone. It is your choice.
6) Detaching from your WS and letting go: This is not the easiest step to take especially if you still love this person, but it is a necessary step to get to where you need to be, to heal from the A and do what is best for YOU. The A was not about you, as you know by now. After following all of the above steps this becomes crystal clear at this point. Now you can let go of your WS and the A a piece at a time, so that neither the WS or the A has control over you.
I acheived detachment by thinking about my pain. Not wallowing in it but, turning it into positive energy...no longer distorting the truth, but really seeing things without the rose-colored glasses on. This meant seeing my H for who he has become and not who he used to be. This means seeing my marriage for what it was and not for how I wanted it to be. This means letting go of the fantasy and coming out of the BS fog that we are in. It means giving up control of the outcome. It means knowing that YOU will be OK with or without your WS, no matter what happens to the marriage. Once you get there you will know that this is where you need to be. This is when you realize you have no control over your spouse and the outcome of your marriage. This is when you know in your heart that you have done all you can to save your marriage and you can let go. There are no doubts anymore. It is when I realized that I could not continue to stay in a marriage where I was not loved and respected, that I was truly better off on my own, that I was worth more than this and did not deserve to be treated like this. I let it all go! And after hiring the PI and getting confirmation of what my gut was telling me, a calm came over me and I knew what I needed to to do. Just the last little push that I needed!
7) Actions speak louder than words: I knew what was best for me and I needed to take action. No more words, action! Of course there is never a perfect time but you can ready yourself as best as you can....trust yourself...and take the leap! No matter what happens...you will OK. I said this to myself over and over again.
I needed H (as I now knew him) out of my life! I had never theartened my H before with leaving or kicking him out. If I took action he would know that I was serious, that this was not an idle threat. So, I got all my ducks in a row and felt confident in my decision and in in being able to take care of myself at this, plus I had let H go already. And I knew what I wanted and this marriage was not it...my H was not it. I wanted better and I knew I deserved better. I was no longer going to put up with any of this...I didnt have to! I have the power to do something about it...to take charge of my own future.
I took the kids to my MIL's and asked if they could stay the night. I then went home and changed all of the locks. I wrote a note to H, gathered up all of his belongings, loaded them up in my car and dropped them off in front of the pizzeria and then I left without a word...no confrontation, no change for him to lie, I just did what I needed to do.
H knew that I was serious and that I intended to seek a divorce. I did not give him a chance to manipulate me or the situation. He had lost me and the kids at that very moment and he knew it. It was at that moment when he realized that he really did have something to lose, that he was motivated to change, to end the A, and seek help for his addictions. He knew exactly what I needed him to do in order to save the marriage and in order for him to earn another chance. He knew he needed to do the work and suffer the consequences of his action. He didnt know how much he loved me and the kids until he was actually faced with losing us. I was no longer going to play his game...I was no longer going to take the crumbs. And he was no longer going to be able to have his cake and eat it too. He had to make a choice! He had to recommit or lose everything, and this from a man who had professed numerous time to have nothing to lose!!! Now it is time for me to sit back and let his actions speak for him. He can say what he wants, but I am looking for actions, not words.
Things could have easily gone the other way, which is honestly what I expected to happen. I expected H to be happy that I was setting him free, especially since he didnt seem to have the balls to do it himself. But that is the thing...you must be willing to accept that your WS is going to walk away and that's where I was at. I was fully prepared which was why I had to detach from H and let him go...and to let the marriage go. You must be serious and mean it...back up our own words with action!
8) Setting and upholding boundaries: Now that H is doing all he can to save our marriage and is now remorseful, now is the time for setting and upholding your boundaries. Now that H not only knows what those boundaries are, he knows that I am willing to uphold mine. I will no longer give anyone such power over me and let them trample all over my boundaries and me! I will not allow it. I will protect myself from now on.
I am not letting H move back in until he can prove to me that the changes I see are permanent, and only if it is what I want."
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Oceanswimmer, you didn't make your H have an A, and you can't make him NOT have one, but you sure as heck can make life uncomfortable for him by showing him that you are taking control back of your life and refusing to be bullied further by him.
Good luck. I know you are in a bad place now, but you don't have to stay under that rock. You can push the rock off you and step out into the sun.
I read your post over again, and for me it comes down to, how much is your own integrity worth? how much are you willing to pay out on this? because from what you write, you have already paid out a lot of love, anguish and pain, and if you continue as things are, so will that continue also. Your H, basically, wants to 'have it all', ie, have the cake, and eat it too. And the only way he can do that is if you let him, and the only way you can let him is - by paying a high price in making allowances, accepting second best in marriage and life, keeping up appearances and generally acting to fill the gap left by your H's behavior.
I paid this kind of price for over two years, telling myself that my H hadn't acted for bad reasons, had made a mistake, been led astray, needed support and love, and that I loved him and was prepared to try to put things right with / for him. And, my H did precisely nothing. I could neither eat nor sleep and functioned badly at work, forgot things..lost the ability to manage my life much at all, so much energy was going into H.
For so long as the status quo remains, your H will not change. He has no need to, and nothing is going to make him want to. The only thing that YOU can change, dear, is what YOU do, ie how you react, manage, deal with, and dare I say it, enable the situation. But, it will likely take time for you to ponder everything and decide what to do; you have to act when you are ready, and for some of us that can be a while. Also as some of us have come to realise, it is not so much a matter of deciding what to DO as recognising what the reality IS. Our minds seem to have ways of protecting us from comprehending the actual disaster in front of our eyes until we are ready to deal with it...once we see reality, we can act. It took me two years. It may take you that long too, but don't be afraid or ashamed, it's your life and you are entitled to act in it how YOU see fit.
My answer is, no, there is no way of managing this situation which isn't going to eat you away, mentally and spiritually. And actually it will eat away at your H too, although that is not, and should not be, your problem.
My 2c..the people here are very wise. Use them all you need to get you through >
Jerry, you are correct in noting I love this man very much. Which surprises me, given the circumstances. And yeah, I have been in IC for many months now.. and this love stays. HOWEVER, I am cogent that I have a keen need/desire for a man who will be committed to family, as my own family has moved on. And if H continues with this new (and not improved) state of being, we are no longer remotely compatible in marriage. And perhaps, as friends. NOne of my friends have this betray the spouse and children characteristic.
Diane thanks for your empathy. I so appreciate this website. It is an unfortunate place to be... but it is a blessing to FINALLY find "home planet" where others know the pain (one I would not wish upon my enemies). Fairy you offer great advice and insight, and thanks for reposting Carol's post. I truly hope my situation turns as hers appears to (isn't her H coming back home with remorse and dedication to IC?). And C... thanks for the eyes open honesty. YES, I agree, H does want to have it all. And the price to me (and our kids) is too high. I may treadwater for another year or two, simply to stay in the house and keep youngest at his beloved school... and get myself back up to speed for gainful employment (I have been mostly a stay home mom... and moved 19 times in 20 years of marriage... so my "career" basically eneded when I married H). But, during this time, should the opportunity present, I may date too. Tho ever so gently and with caution to the messages I send to our boys. (Not sure what to do with this role modeling thing).
I thank stars that after a full 6 months, my own wounding and mental FOG (big time fog) is lifting. I am willing to let go of everything. EVERYTHING except my kids and dogs. The house, the "stuff"... everything. I am no longer afraid. I know with divorce my standard of living could plunge dramatically (H makes good $). I know the kids college options will shift. I know much will change... but perhaps for the better. I can assume so. I understanding what H is doing IS his choice, and it is supremely disrespectful to me. My eldest believes H must hate me, and not like his kids to do this (I think H must hate himself...if not now, when he wakes up!). But, I can not argue that this IS who H is right now. I am aware lust and "romantic love" is pretty darned powerful (even tho H swears the OW has nothing to do with his need for divorce). And yeah.. the sex thing, despite this not being a weakness in our marriage. But still.. there seems a level of love/hate going on that is perplexing.
I do believe in karma.. and believe he (and the ow) will suffer somewhere down the line, assuming he eventually wakes up. I realize H's suffering may be long after I have moved on, and his children have rejected him (this is what H did to his own father). I also believe whatever is next for me will be wonderful. Something about one door closing only to have another open. Still... I love this man. It is tough to slam the door on 20 years and really significant experiences.
I have considered that w/o IC, H will repeat his own family history in order to "heal" his own wounds (the sins of the father on to become the sins of the son?). I consider that we are all ready separated, since he has been home 4 days in the last 11 weeks. In a phone discussion a few days ago (we have communicated very little since my discovery of his lies and betrayal), he said he plans to come here 2 to 3 days a month to be a "good father". This would be 2 or 3 days more than he saw his own father as a teen. His job is to blame? ... partly.
Emotionally, I have moved to the next level where I am willing to simply let go. I told him the kids and I will move to his new job location. BUT, he must commit to the family, and not see the OW. I also pointed out to him that for this woman, he may lose everything.. his children, me, all we have worked for, the house we built, the dogs, many friends, etc. This did seem to sober him up... he thought maybe separation for a year or two might be okay. Not sell the house. Not have the kids leave their schools. Basically, have it all (for him).
I am open. But certainly under this plan I told him I will date should the right person come along, perhaps fall in love. H says that would be okay, as long as he treated me well (I did not point out that what H did to me and his children falls under the treating me REALLY BADLY category).
The kids are suffering (boys 15 and 16). They do not respect their father. I pointed out to H that OUR boys may grow to respect and depend upon ANOTHER man as their primary male role model, because what he is doing now does not fit in with the moral values we raised our children to, and it is possible they may never, ever, respect him for this. I also noted that if he planned to marry OW, it was likely our boys would never accept her, or not accept her for many, many years. Naturally, he did not "get" this... not at all (deep fog).
My favorite line is that he has "sacrificed too much" for the family. He is now going to take care of himself. Pushing his family away, and losing their respect is an interesting solution. But, such is midlife crisis.
It is not a great thing to be so deeply in love with a spouse of 20 years.. and have them not be "in love" with you. Still, I know there is little I can do beyond see the silver linings in all of this (there have been a few).
(sigh)
So again... I want to move forward with compassion, kindness, gentleness.. and yes, even love. All of which is rather outside the box of typical. I do this for me... more than H. Mostly because this is how I want to be in this lifetime.
It seems horrible that our H's would allow history to repeat itself and mimic what happened in their own families. I grew up where my mother had cheated on my father and dragged us kids along with her. I did not repeat my mother's behavior so I never understood how my H could. Knowing the pain and devistation first hand as a child, I would never do that to my own children or my H for that matter. So how could he do it to me and to his own children? This was extremely difficult for me to understand. But your H has hinted at what the issue is for him here and it was the same for my H. Perhaps what I am about to say may explain some things for you and help you understand what is going on with your H, or maybe you already know everything I am about to say. I could be wrong, but this is an educated guess, meaning I have been there:
It is about CONTROL. Does your H control everything? Mine did. My name is on nothing we own. Legally it makes no difference in our state, I am still entitled to half. But that is not the point of it. It is about control. H feels he is in control if his name alone is one everything. He feels that everything is HIS because HE worked so hard. H is also a workaholic, another form of control and escape. And it has always been his way or the highway. Nothing changed until I chose the highway option. But that is another story (which FF posted). Anyway, all of H's control issues go back to his childhood. This is what his father had done, and it was modeled for him. His father is still the same way and his mother takes it. While the dad is not cheating any longer he is the one with all the say in the marriage and the finances. But what you and I amy not have understood that these men are controlling because they are insecure. If they are not in charge they feel helpless and weak...not like a man. And you are not going to tell them what needs to be done or should be done because they are in control not you! Yes, they want their cake and eat it too....they want it all because they feel they deserve it all...and they are in control...how dare you question them and try to control them, right? Why do they need so much control to feel like a man? Simple. When they were children and had no control they felt helpless...they felt hopeless. They could not control their parents behavior and what happened to them as children. Believe it or not this is the exact reason they repeat their childhood...only this time they are in control! They are now an adult and no one is going to tell them what they can and cannot do, especially their wife or their parents. This is why they repeat the same offense as their parents did...to regain the control they did not have as a child when the same situation occured to them. When my H confirmed this the lughtbulb went off for me. So, that's how he could do what he did...he was mimicing what happened to him not only because it was all he knew, but because he was in control whereas before he was a helpless child with no control. In other words, the tables had turned! H thought like his mom, I would just take it, because this is what all of the women in his family have always done. But I broke the mold. I refused to take it and stuck up for myself, unlike the other women in his family. When faced with losing everything he had worked so hard for, H didnt know what to do... he felt helpless...and in his helplessness he turned towards me, finally! He realized he wanted his family. Instead of running away again, he asked for help...he made the appointment for IC.
To admit this was extremely difficult and painful for my H to do as he had been running away from facing it for years! He got involved with drugs, became a workaholic and got involved with the OW just to avoid dealing with it, and to avoid turning to me he used all of these to push me away. It was too painful for him to face. But had he not realized that his childhood issues were the cause of many of his personal problems and went to IC, I dont think he would have been able to admit this. Repeating the past is their way of taking control of their lives. Unfortunately this is not the way to work through their issues, and all it does is cause more problems. But that was not what they were thinking about. They were thinking about how to stop the pain and avoid dealing with their issues. They don't realize that eventually you have to face them, and everything always catches up to you no matter how long you try to avoid it. But then many go to their graves never facing their issues, and they are usually unhappy bitter people, and usually end up alone or in a loveless marriage. So it really is all about them and their issues! They need to fix themselves, and when they are ready. You cannot force them. All you can do is take care of yourself. And when they see us as trying to control them, it pushes them further away and see our "attitude" as justification for their actions. I felt that warranted being repeated.
I have refused to take H back until he has the STD tests results, and the paperwork for the house and car are received. I need to see positive, conistant change, and action before I can even think of letting H come back home. This is to protect ME. And obviously I love my H or I would not even be entertaining the thought of letting him earn another chance. But as I pointed out in my post "It's all about you" love is not enough. We must demand more of our WS and of ourselves if anything is to change.
I hope this helped some. Take care...Carol~
EDITED for typos, which I am sure I still missed a few, lol.
This message has been edited by pizzalady on Sep 27, 2006 12:36 PM
