For those of you with WS's where drinking or drugging is part of the issue, may I offer some thoughts?

IMHO, having had long experience dealing with this particular issue, solid recovery from all forms of substance abuse is at the very TOP of the list before real progress towards genuine reconciliation can ever occur.

If your S is remorseful, then you have a remorseful drunk. If your S is sad, then you have a sad drunk. If your S is happy, then....well, you get the idea....

Some substance abusers have "radar" for homing in on someone who will unwittingly enable them, become a drinking/drugging buddy, or minimize their problem. This could be towards an affair partner or when looking for a marriage partner.

Those of you who are trying to reconcile with an active substance abuser may often be doomed to failure. All bets are off as to honesty, integrity and faithfulness when the once cheating spouse gets a buzz on. I am not saying that all drunks/dopers cheat, nor that getting high causes cheating. But I am saying that if drinking/drugging is a factor in the A at any level, it absolutely needs to be seriously addressed and not swept under the proverbial carpet. When buzzed, the "brakes" are off and guess what can happen next?

If your spouse indicates that drinking/doping isn't a big deal for them, then it won't be a big deal for them to quit! "I used to have a problem with alcohol, but now I love the stuff!"

....Up on Cripple Creek she sends me
If I spring a leak, she mends me
I don't have to speak, she defends me
A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one....(The Band)
BB

the BS struggles? what then?

I assume you mean what if the BS struggles with their own substance abuse? Well, there are many, many resources available to help anyone with this kind of problem, ranging from online forums, AA/NA groups, individual counseling, inpatient residential treatment facilities, & hospital detox (if needed).

If the BS is addicted to alcohol or drugs, there is a host of issues related to this that can impede their progress, both in reconciliation (& in life in general).

There is NO SHAME or BLAME in being addicted to alcohol or drugs! The shame comes when the addicted person doesn't seek help. The blame comes when the person beats themselves up after promising never to drink/drug again & then does it anyway. This is the very nature of addiction, a self defeating downward spiral that leads to depression, physical disease, ruined relationships, and sometimes, death.

There is a big difference between a "problem drinker" and an "alcoholic". The bottom line is that an alcoholic just can't manage to get through daily life without booze, and feels physical withdrawal symptoms if they try to stop drinking. The general "rule" is that if a person of "average" weight (whatever THAT is) drinks more than 3 drinks a day every day (or more than 21 drinks a week in any daily combination)--a "drink" being 1-12 oz. beer, or 1.5 oz. 80 proof liquor, or 6 oz. wine--then the person is flirting with becoming addicted to alcohol. This is not a hard and fast rule, there are exceptions. But once the line of addiction has been crossed, there is no going back. Tolerance develops, and it takes more & more booze to have the same effect. Then the person no longer drinks to feel "good", but just to feel "normal".
BB

Totally agree with Blue Bayou.
My H is an alcoholic, now thankfully sober. He was an active alcoholic for nearly 8 years, during which time he had several A's, at least two of which were PA's. He claims the others were just drinking partners and providers of admiration. He became someone I didn't recognize - cruel, verbally abusive, irresponsible, selfish, said all kinds of crazy things that didn't make sense. I have learned that many of these characteristics are typical of alcoholic thinking - grandiosity and the belief that rules just don't apply to them.

He didn't immediately stop drinking after D Day. I discovered that he had been out drinking with one of his admirers right before meeting me for dinner. (I found out by calling his credit card company to see what bills had just gone through.) Then, I had it. Enough humiliation and despair. I lost respect and was ready to send him on his way. At that moment, he realized he had to get sober or he was, in his words, going to lose everything. He went to an IC who specializes in addiction and joined AA. It has been about 18 months and he has not had a drink.

The change in him and our M is profound. I have learned so much about addiction and have tremendous compassion for those who suffer from the disease of alcoholism. It can affect anyone (my H was president of a company) and as Blue Bayou said, there is no shame in suffering from a disease. H's IC is based on the premise that alcoholics suffer from terrible shame and that they need to understand that they have a disease that needs to be treated. Further shaming them is not going to help them with their addictions.They are told, in a way, that they were not responsible for what happened during their alcoholic haze but that now, they have a responsiblity to get sober, think clearly and be accountable. Obviously, there are some annoying aspects to this way of thinking but IC has an amazing success rate and we owe him our new lives.

There have been some rough spots in our recovery, as the IC has discouraged H from digging around in the shame of his past, when, of course, that's all I wanted to do. For the most part, I have what I need to know and H claims he doesn't remember a lot - very plausible as he was a blackout drinker.

I also get a little crazy when H waves the "I was sick" flag but he does own the pain he has caused me and our family and tells me all the time how much he hates and regrets having hurt me the way he did. I know that recovery would have been impossible if he continued to drink and think like an alcoholic.

The only thing I would add to Blue Bayou's very insightful thoughts is AA's definition of alcoholism - "when you can't safely predict what will happen after one drink." That was my H - if he had one, he had 6.

Today, my H is loving, compassionate, kind, empathetic, totally remorseful and responsible. I am lagging behind a bit - still obsessive and want to talk about A's more but there is no new information available and an alcoholic WS presents unique challenges. I do live in fear that he will pick up again but with each day, a little more peace and confidence. I believe that as long as he is sober, he will not cheat (confirmed by my IC) but if drinks again, all bets are off. Often ask myself, "how did I end up here?" but somehow, I have and I love this man and want to stay with him.

Totally agree with Blue Bayou.
My H is an alcoholic, now thankfully sober. He was an active alcoholic for nearly 8 years, during which time he had several A's, at least two of which were PA's. He claims the others were just drinking partners and providers of admiration. He became someone I didn't recognize - cruel, verbally abusive, irresponsible, selfish, said all kinds of crazy things that didn't make sense. I have learned that many of these characteristics are typical of alcoholic thinking - grandiosity and the belief that rules just don't apply to them.

He didn't immediately stop drinking after D Day. I discovered that he had been out drinking with one of his admirers right before meeting me for dinner. (I found out by calling his credit card company to see what bills had just gone through.) Then, I had it. Enough humiliation and despair. I lost respect and was ready to send him on his way. At that moment, he realized he had to get sober or he was, in his words, going to lose everything. He went to an IC who specializes in addiction and joined AA. It has been about 18 months and he has not had a drink.

The change in him and our M is profound. I have learned so much about addiction and have tremendous compassion for those who suffer from the disease of alcoholism. It can affect anyone (my H was president of a company) and as Blue Bayou said, there is no shame in suffering from a disease. H's IC is based on the premise that alcoholics suffer from terrible shame and that they need to understand that they have a disease that needs to be treated. Further shaming them is not going to help them with their addictions.They are told, in a way, that they were not responsible for what happened during their alcoholic haze but that now, they have a responsiblity to get sober, think clearly and be accountable. Obviously, there are some annoying aspects to this way of thinking but IC has an amazing success rate and we owe him our new lives.

There have been some rough spots in our recovery, as the IC has discouraged H from digging around in the shame of his past, when, of course, that's all I wanted to do. For the most part, I have what I need to know and H claims he doesn't remember a lot - very plausible as he was a blackout drinker.

I also get a little crazy when H waves the "I was sick" flag but he does own the pain he has caused me and our family and tells me all the time how much he hates and regrets having hurt me the way he did. I know that recovery would have been impossible if he continued to drink and think like an alcoholic.

The only thing I would add to Blue Bayou's very insightful thoughts is AA's definition of alcoholism - "when you can't safely predict what will happen after one drink." That was my H - if he had one, he had 6.

Today, my H is loving, compassionate, kind, empathetic, totally remorseful and responsible. I am lagging behind a bit - still obsessive and want to talk about A's more but there is no new information available and an alcoholic WS presents unique challenges. I do live in fear that he will pick up again but with each day, a little more peace and confidence. I believe that as long as he is sober, he will not cheat (confirmed by my IC) but if drinks again, all bets are off. Often ask myself, "how did I end up here?" but somehow, I have and I love this man and want to stay with him.