This message has been edited by pizzalady on Mar 5, 2007 2:19 PM This message has been edited by pizzalady on Feb 17, 2007 9:49 PM This message has been edited by pizzalady on Feb 17, 2007 9:48 PM
mm.. Well, I reckon he may not have had contact. And may be off the weed. But.. I may be wrong. In my case I don't reckon wife has had contact. But I am also quite prepared to believe she has also. In my situation it is clear that she knows if I ever found out it would be a definite end to our marriage.. but then that is already not certain... so perhaps I am less concerned. In fact my lack of concern could be an indication of how little there remains. Or.. It could be a sign of how much I have actually gone along the way towards acceptance and forgiveness. It scares me to realise how my act of forgiveness seems to have grown alongside my acts of moving away from wife. Perhaps the two are terribly linked in that the acceptance and forgiveness comes with a realisation that she is not who I wanted her to be and our marriage is not what I thought it was. Reality, it seems, can be a difficult thing to live with.. but what else is there. I no longer can see her as someone who cares enough to be true - I tough reality.
Carol - Given what you have shared about the OW - the hurtful things she did towards you, I'm surprised too that she hasn't tried to come between you and your H - that seems inevitable - when the OW is dumped, she seems to retaliate and tries to interfere. Quite a few of us have that kind of experience. Sometimes they don't but I think too that she would have tried. I only know that in my case, my H told me about the contacts, each time, always her initiation - his telling me about these overtures did help me to trust him, eventually, at the time it often seemed like she got what she wanted - a dagger at my back - it was so frustrating! But that was the positive underside. His telling me about them helped me to know he was bonded to me, not her. It's strange to think maybe if the OW in your life did contact your H it might help you, if he did actually tell you about it and had dealt appropriately with it. I don't know if I am making any sense but I would be feeling what you are feeling in your situation!
Jerry - Sometimes when I found this healing business too hard, I did wonder if it wouldn't have been easier to forgive and move on if I had just left. I think the distance does help to put it in the past exactly as you describe it - the problem is that the whole relationship may also be put in the past. That's good though if that is the best thing for you.
MM
You are right. After d-day #1 H swore to me that he would tell me if she had contacted him. Of course he didnt. When she did contact him the A started all over again. So now, of course, after d-day #2, how am I supposed to believe that she hasn't contacted him? I just simply cannot. It has been 6 months and I cant believe she would not wish him a Happy 40th birthday or send him a Valentine or something. Part of the reason I feel this way is because I know they have some sort of deep connection, maybe even deeper than he and I. Whether it was do to the pot or the fantsay of the A, I dont know and I really dont even care why anymore. But all I do know is that an A does not go on for years, past the infatuation stage, if there is not something more to it. Like Jerry, I also cant shake that.
How I coped, was leaning on all the things he was doing to show me he wanted the marriage and to change. I even kept a list of these things with me at all times. I saw concrete changes in his attitude and his actions, on a continual basis, over time. I saw concrete remorse and disgust for what he had done, on a continual basis, over time. I saw a sincere desire to own his mistakes and atone for them in actions, on a continual basis, over time. These things did not lesson, they grew in intensity, on a continual basis, over time. Keep in mind though, we did have setbacks aplenty, but he didn’t run away, he hung tough and dealt with them personally and with mine. In short the BS needs to see that the WS “Gets it” big time, before then can even begin to believe there is no NC. If you are not getting these things like you need, Check. I firmly believe in a BS’s right to verify when, needed, during recovery.
In regards to substance abuse addictions. I don’t trust my H there. I never will. I know he has an addictive personality and he is in a continual battle to maintain the status quo. I believe he would fall of the wagon before he would cheat again. Although falling off the wagon means a spiral downward, which means a possibility of another affair. I accept this. If he falls, I am done, no more 2nd chances. That is my boundary for me.
You wrote, “But all I do know is that an A does not go on for years, past the infatuation stage, if there is not something more to it.”
See it is my belief that an affair can get stuck in the infatuation stage indefinitely for many. I even think on some level the affair consorts know this and work hard to maintain that beginning feeling of infatuation/love. Affairs are unable to progress the normal pattern of a relationship, because they are not a normal relationships. They either get disillusioned gradually, like my H, eventually telling themselves it was just a very good friendship that understandably went a bit too far. Or they are able to stay in the infatuation stage. Many affair started relationships don’t survive past the divorce of one partner or the other because it is impossible to maintain the infatuation stage without the marriage helping to keep it there. Now the OP is real life, that doesn’t bode well with the infatuation stage, which is what they liked so much about the affair.
I honestly believe that affair relationships can not have the honor and respect of a normal relationship. What they share, in my mind, is tainted by the lies they tell each other and themselves to maintain the belief that what they are doing is justified. Intimacy for them is then an illusion or lie. Having said that, I know that to them, at the time, it is very real and intense, but it can not hold a candle to the honor and truth of a relationship that was not begun on lies.
Drug stores sell home test kits for pot. Ask him to take one. Don't settle for "Whassamatta, you don't TRUST me?!" At least you can find out if he's being at all honest about something.
BB
great advice Blue! I love the way you say things Blue. There was another post somewhere.. I wanted to comment on well done Blue!
Ami,
One more time you read my heart and say it so well! There is no reason to trust, or believe except time and continued good behavior.
Trust me are words not to be believed. My H as did yours earned my trust. To this day, he tells me where he is going even though I have told him I no longer need to know. He seems to want/ need/ to tell me, even if it is to another floor in our home!
Trust is NOT something they deserve, they earn it. Our love in the begining included unconditional everything. N/C is not something we feel comfortable about accepting, it is them proving it day by day, year by year. I also accepted, that whether or not I babysat him he would do WHAT HE WANTED.. it had to be his choice.
Aslo, this duration of the affair and love... please.
OW #2 was SEVEN years. Sex once a week in the car.. how romantic. She was simply any body...
Carol, what they had was a FANTASY NOT LOVE, please re read Ami's wisdom. She is soooo righ on target.
EL
You guys are right. There is no trust. And there are two things I have been dying to do. One, get him tested for drugs, and two tear apart his bathroom and the warehouse at the pizzeria. So far I have been discretely looking to see if I can find anything, but now maybe I need to just go all out and have at it! There is still no way for me to know if she has been calling or not though! Darn! Unless I turn detective and plant a mirocphone or something, lol! Can you just see me now... it would be like an episode of I love Lucy....LOL.
I was thinking along the same lines of a drug test...so was happy to see that you can buy them at the drug store..
unless there is a pizza special package phone package that you can find to buy and connect to the store phone that records all in coming and out going calls...I think you will have a hard time discovering if he is talking to her....surprise visits to the store..checking out the office, time he leaves the store...then gets home...Carol being a police is hard work.
(((hugs)))
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
I have done the microphone and recorder. That is how I caught him, H, for our D Day 1 of a million.
Funny story - when I bought the devices which were cheap, the kid at the electronic place asked me what I needed this stuff for... I am an awful liar, yet didnt want to explain to a 16 year old kid that I was trying to catch my H cheating, so I on the spot said, "I think I have racoons in my garage and they got into some paint and knocked it over... I just want to make sure it is racoons and not neighborhood kids." The sales kid said nothing, but I am sure he was thinking this lady is crazy... she needs a video camera, not a voice recording device. Havent met a racoon yet that actually spoke words! Tee-hee!
I Love Lucy... she would have been proud.
Coral
"A discovery is said to be an accident meeting a prepared mind."
This message has been edited by CoralV on Feb 23, 2007 3:37 PM This message has been edited by CoralV on Feb 23, 2007 2:03 PM
I haven't been reading on the board, I've been really busy at work and it won't let up until the Academy Awards are over and Amazing Grace goes away But I wanted to tell you that you can get a "digital voice-activated" recorder. It only comes on when there is talking and it has no cassette or anything to make noise. You can velcro it just about anywhere. I'm just catching up on all that you have been going through, I'm sorry.
I honestly don't believe she hasn't tried to contact him. What has she got to lose? She has no moral conscience. If you could just get to the bottom of all of this. You have been through more that I can imagine. HUGS, E
Thank you Coral & Edie. And Edie, I will be thinking of you tomorrow night when I watch the awards. I love the Oscars
It just seems to me that she would contact him or he would contact her. How can they just not after 5 years? I have also been reading about how so many times the A continues as an EA by continued email or phone contact. That is more what I am worried about. I have the email thing covered but I dont think OW has a computer becuase I cannot find a trace of her out there in cyber space, even before d-day #2, and he has never sent her an email nor has he received one from her. But last time he swore there was NC and he was lying. At first she started calling him again, and he thought they could just be friends, and then as soon as they "got together" of course it turned physical again. So I just cant take his word for it this time, as hard as I am trying to. I just dont beleive it. And I think I would be a fool if I did just take his word for it.
I am looking out for myself. I think in the case of infidelity anything goes...meaning if I choose to setup a recorder to know the truth then I should. It is no different than hiring the PI again. Even the PI wouldnt be able to tell me if there was phone contact anyway. So, I guess a recorder may be my only option. But how and where? I know for sure I could setup one in the warehouse but inside the pizzeria would be pretty hard. And I would need to reset the thing every few days. We are open like 12 hours a day and H is there for an average of 15. That's a whole lot of recording to go through! This is a tough one....
Let me think on that, but just a thought too - I put one in my H's car.... Under the seat. That is how I found out he even had the 2nd cell phone as I heard calls he was making and looked at our home cell bill and saw the calls werent on it, so he had to have a 2nd phone.
Now that I know he has the 2nd phone and has given it to me to monitor, I wonder if he has gone and bought one of those pay as you go phones (Pre-paid). No bill, no trace, no nothing... Maybe I should set the recorders again as well.
Coral
"A discovery is said to be an accident meeting a prepared mind."
<<Now that I know he has the 2nd phone and has given it to me to monitor, I wonder if he has gone and bought one of those pay as you go phones (Pre-paid). No bill, no trace, no nothing... Maybe I should set the recorders again as well. >>
My H is not in his truck much at all, but that is a good idea, lol. And the pay as you go thing...that was how my H got away with it for so long the first time, and it was my phone!. I even bought him minutes. That makes me so mad. It makes me feel like I gave him the fork so he could have his cake and eat it too. I kept questioning why he was going through minutes so fast and of course he would lie
Its like me PAYING the trainer at our gym to train us both and her in turn becomes OW1. (I wrote the frickin' $355 check!) I guess I just didnt realize that I was paying for an affair along with the weight training.
If we knew then what we know now.....
Hugs,
Coral
"A discovery is said to be an accident meeting a prepared mind."
Havent met a racoon yet that actually spoke words! Tee-hee!
But I wanted to tell you that you can get a "digital voice-activated" recorder. It only comes on when there is talking and it has no cassette or anything to make noise. You can velcro it just about anywhere. I'm just catching up on all that you have been going through, I'm sorry.
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