Its been a tough week emotionally. Nothing new happening that I'm aware of. Nothing concrete found. Not even what I'd call gut feelings guiding me. But I'm back in the pattern of sleeping just a couple of hours and then walking the hallways from 3:30am on, which is something I did a lot of early on after D-Day.

If I look at why I'm awake I can answer that pretty quickly: I'm afraid. Not for personal safety, but of a host of other reasons: finding out some new information about what happened during the A,... information about what happened prior to the A (its come to light that H had been regularly, though he says infrequently, at porn sites and friendfinder chat rooms and on the phone with other women since before we were even married and then throughout the marriage: are you kidding me??!!!???)...or if/when this will happen again. So, I am in this constant state of vigilance. A lot of us probably are. It sucks. Its exhausting and I'm feeling very drained and tired of it.

So around 6am, I wander back to our bedroom and crawl into bed and just end up bawling. H holds me and comforts me, and we end up having this conversation while I'm crying. He tells me he's being really good, there's nothing to worry about, the marriage and family are his entire focus, and he's working really hard at becoming the man he wants to be and that I deserve. This is all true. He's done remarkably well considering what we've been dealing with, and I see significant change. I also see how changed I am. So, I told him in between the tears that I was really proud of him. He's done a great job and is becoming a better person. And then I said, "But you have broken me through this experience. You're responsible for making me live in fear day in and day out. I trust no one now. My joy and passion for life are gone. You're responsible for doing that. And its your responsibility to fix that and fix me."

So, my HH family, here's my question: how true is that? How responsible is H for fixing me? Our MC and my IC would be all over that saying that this sounds like something I feel "entitled" to and that is not a place I should be coming from. I get that I have my own "work" to do, to be less emotionally reliant on H, and to see myself as an individual independent of him and not caught up in the fairytales or idealism that I went into this marriage with.

For those people having worked through A's longer, were there specific things your WS's did to bear the responsibility of the damage done to you? Am I just an innocent bystander that got hit by H's emotional/sexual truck and its my own job to do my own emotional rehab?

Maybe I just see a lot of the work H has done for himself (which admittedly gives the family, the marriage and I a pay-off), and not as much work that he's done dealing with me or what he did. His response to this is always that he cannot unring that bell. Its in the past. He can't change history. He'll answer any question I ask of him, but his focus is on the present and on the future. He's not unsympathetic that I'm still in the process of dealing with what I've learned and he's very remorseful. He just is at a loss for what to do other than to repeatedly tell me how sorry he is and that he loves me (always nice to hear, but supposedly he loved me throughout the marriage and that had no bearing on his (in)ability to be committed).

I resent that he's becoming a better person, and here I sit: crumbled and crumpled and shattered. Maybe its just a blue day for Blue Iris, but any insight, perspective or opinions would be welcome. thanks Blue Iris

What a question! How responsible is your H for your attitude? Whew. I'm exhausted just thinking about the answer...if there is one.

I think your H is responsible to the M. To acting on that commitment. You mention entitlement...I read somewhere about something called compensation --- the give backs.

After all, you need to SEE CONCRETE EVIDENCE of progress and commitment. It's not enough to hear from the WS "I'm trying." At least, it wasn't for me. I need something palpable, tangible. Have you had that from your H?

I think when those words/deeds match, the BS can take on a new attitude. It doesn't happen overnight; nor in weeks, or even months. But in a long-lasting commitment. After all, my H spent two years in his secretive lying Affair...I don't think it would too much to ask an appropriate amount of time for my healing and his showing his level of commitment. But I do expect that within that two year framework, I SEE and WITNESS real changes. THAT helps my attitude; For that, I feel my H is responsible.

Blue, I'm not familiar with your length of time since D-Day, but I wish you more peaceful times.

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

JJ - I can't even begin to tell you how much I've enjoyed your posts today. You've been busy! I'm guessing its spring break for you and that's given you some time to be here. Bless you for all your words of wisdom and insight.

I'm a "newbie" - about 8 months in, so everything's still pretty raw and, though I've got the general feel for the "rollercoaster" experience, I know there's a good long stretch ahead of us until we can really assess how things are going. There are parts of this that still feel like "survival mode".

I've been pondering my question, too. I don't think its my "attitude" I'm hoping he'll help with. In some ways, I feel like what's really happening is that I'm grieving for the loss of who I was and how I've changed. I miss that more carefree chick that could giggle at life and trusted people generally and her H specifically. I miss having peace of mind. I miss being able to sleep. I miss my old life and understand it just isn't something that is going to be back - whether the M works out or not. It - and who I was - is gone...or at least mutated without my consent. So, I feel violated and lost and grieving. And doggoneit, I want H to play some part in helping remedy that! But what does compensation for altered personality look like??

And maybe that's my own road to hoe.

As for time, you're absolutely right: it is a critical element in rebuilding. He's got to have the opportunity to create a new track record. And he can talk till he's blue in the face about how he feels, but I need to see that new track record over TIME to build trust. Its just too soon. I've never been known for my patience

Thanks for the perspective and well wishes. I'm heading over to see what else you've been writing

"I miss my old life and understand it just isn't something that is going to be back - whether the M works out or not. It - and who I was - is gone...or at least mutated without my consent."

So true...


After my H's affair, I feel like I have an altered personality that does not belong to me... And it seems like to be a downward spiral... I got to get out of it.


~Phoebe

And YOU CAN DO IT, PHOEBE!!! Listen to yourself...and LOVE your self!

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

Dear Blue Iris,

The trauma, the PSTD, associated with A's is overwhelming.  At 8 mos I remember feeling a new wave of emotions rush at me - it is a particularly difficult stretch in A recovery, I think.  Perhaps it is largely because by then we are exhausted and we want so desperately to start feeling "normal" again.  It is at intervals like that when  we have to remind ourselves to have patience and to take care of ourselves: eat right, exercise, try to rest.  I can sympathize with your sleeplessness; insomnia has become a way of life for me.  It is frustrating, and sadly, I have yet to discover the 'cure'.

I think anytime we hurt someone, we are responsible for helping them  - not just apologizing but consoling, lifting up, making amends, etc.  But, to me, it is only meaningful if the effort comes from the heart with a sense of sincere desire, not out of obligation.  The problem I see in regards to A recovery, though, is that the FWS's are also healing from the A - overcoming their own personal demons and reconstructing their character, navigating through guilt, depression, anger, etc.  It is difficult to give to another - even when you have hurt someone so profusely - while you are carrying the weight of your own healing (from self-inflicted wounds).   It is not fair, but the reality is that the BS tends to become the stronger one by default and often is the one to bouy the relationship during the initial stages of A recovery (sometimes longer).

NO, your H cannot 'unring that bell' but he can help give you the emotional tools you need to prepare you for the rough moments.  My thought is that there must be something lacking that you need right now from your H - probably on a more emotional level.  I have heard couples talk about how co-journaling helps.  I am also curious if the two of you 'date' each other.  It is important that he 'earn' you back, not just pick up where you left off.  Think closely about what you are needing from your H and share that with him.  Come up with a plan together that meets those needs.  It is a process that seems to have success for those couples who can keep working together at it. 

Blessings

 

And its your responsibility to fix that and fix me."

Well it's been 6 years here and in my opinion, it's your responsibility to fix you.

H needs to be honest, listen, answer your questions, "be there", get out of the fog of having an A, figure out why and make changes in his life to prevent it from happening again...he needs to do this part to fix the marriage

...but you need to fix you.

Read a couple affair recovery books and you will realize that your reactions are normal. Listen to the recommendations from the published experts with education and background in A recovery.

Google PTSD to see if what you feel matches up to the symptoms and if they do, read about PTSD so at least you understand what's happening.

Talk to your doctor about the possibility of some short term medications to help you over this hump. Lack of sleep is a quality of life issue that can affect your judgement and your ability to drive or operate machinery.

Share the information you learn on these topics with your H so he can also see there is hope and recovery is possible and by working together you can have a recovered marriage.

Consider going to IC or MC. Try to unwrap your own self-worth from being tied up in someone else's bad decisions.

...but it's your responsibility to fix you because in the end, only you can do it. If you are waiting for someone else to fix you, you might just stay broken - no one else is going to have a clue.

-Susan

I wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts and perspective.

Phoebe: You and I are in very similar places emotionally. I understand exactly the feelings of altered personality and the resentment that comes from having what was ours stripped away. I understand exactly what you were talking in your own thread about the void you're feeling and the "going through the motions". You're probably right; it has a lot to do with now needing to protect ourselves and not allow vulnerability where once those waters flowed freely. Its difficult, because we crave the very clear memory of how we used to have that and how we lived that. But the pain of what happened and the fear of it reoccurring is so overwhelming. Anyway, there is comfort in not feeling alone and you helped me to not feel alone. Thank you.

JJ: The reminder of the critical element of time was/is important for me to understand yet again. Time is a tool that's important for both the WS and the BS, so I very much appreciate the reminder.

Jane: I cried so much reading and re-reading your reply, because it hit so much on what I was feeling and thinking. And, more importantly, your words held so much perspective yet sensitivity...for both of us! H is facing a lot of demons. Its very easy for me to forget his personal agony over this, because I'm so focussed on the horror of the "pleasure" he was finding outside the home. It was a brilliant post and has me thinking on both sides of the coin and contemplating how to get through this by working together.

Susan: I'm not as well-known a poster here, so there are things you could not know about me. When this happened, I went very quickly to our rabbi and then into MC and IC. Meds were discussed early on, but from my perspective, it seemed that people were encouraging me to take them because they were uncomfortable with what I was feeling. For me, I needed to experience the reaction to what was happening and knew that taking meds would be just one more thing I would add to my list of resentments. That was the right decision for me. My bookshelf looks like I'm a grad student working on a thesis in marriage therapy. I've been on-line obsessively from the beginning. And thank God!, because that's how I found HH.

I do very much appreciate your opinion. I hear your perspective and you have walked the walk and learned much more compared to where I am at this stage of the game. I definitely have issues of low self-worth tied way back into family history. And its something I've recognized all my life and have been dealing with a lot now in IC. It does play a lot into this situation and into my question. When I said what I said to H, I was emotionally reacting with anger and sadness - - not always a rational place. My plan has never been to sit idly by and have only H heal us/him/me. But it did dawn on me that if I lifted this scenario out of the marriage perspective and dropped it into the business world, there would indeed be culpability and responsibility by the offending party. It would be termed differently in the business world and would sound more like "embezzlement" and "insider trading" and "fraud" and "misrepresentation". And there would absolutely be amends that would be necessary to right the situation.

All that said, Susan, I am very grateful for your opinion. There is indeed an inner strength that I haven't tapped into. Its pretty damaged right now, but the spark of it is somewhere deep inside. I think I'm going to think of you as an "Alice in the Looking Glass" mentor, looking at my situation from the future with the wisdom of what you've learned along the way.

I'm appreciative of all of you. Be well. BlueIris

Blue writes "Meds were discussed early on, but from my perspective, it seemed that people were encouraging me to take them because they were uncomfortable with what I was feeling. For me, I needed to experience the reaction to what was happening and knew that taking meds would be just one more thing I would add to my list of resentments."


And hows that working for you?

Because what if getting a full night's sleep allowed you to focus on healing instead of on "feeling" Have you proven anything?

What if a clear night's sleep, or several nights in a row, allowed you to put some of the knowledge gained from books and research to work for your advantage?

I guess I can see shaking off an epidural if you are having a baby and are protecting the child from effects of chemicals (although most seem to come out fine)

Proving you can withstand pain while pacing the halls from 3:30-6:00 each morning, only to collapse in tears, is protecting ... who? and proving.... what?

It's totally your choice, but choosing pride over pain seems odd when you've already experienced the pain.

Good luck to you
Susan

Dear Susan,

I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner. Ironically, I was sleeping. Since waking this morning and going through the routine of getting kids off to school and the regular “have to’s” of the day, I’ve seen your response and have pondered long and hard about how to respond back to you.

((Susan)) Are you angry? Are you angry with me?

My understanding of HH is that this is a forum where we can share and vent and ask, and in return, we can expect compassion, understanding and empathy. That doesn’t mean agreement on everything, but I’m hearing such judgment in your email, and I’m not sure where that’s coming from.

As I said in my earlier post on this thread, not being on meds was and is the right decision for me. There are a variety of factors that play into my decision. It wasn’t quickly made. You couldn’t know that my sister, who is mentally retarded, who was raped at home and emotionally abused the bulk of her life, became mentally ill in her 20’s and his since been on a variety of meds. I’ve watched the side effects of her pharmaceutical treatment and have held her in my arms at its most debilitating state. Separating myself from that, you couldn’t know that I’ve had detailed discussions with my IC about meds. Honestly, my IC felt it would be helpful but was and is astute enough to understand I wasn’t comfortable with going on meds. And she respected that. So, she and I discussed my reluctance and looked for alternatives. She suggested that I research holistic remedies, which I did, and at the very worst of my sleepless periods, I successfully used “Valerian”. This is an herbal supplement that absolutely helped me. It’s not something one is supposed to stay on indefinitely. And honestly, the reason I’m having trouble sleeping isn’t going to be fixed with any pill or supplement: I have to address the fear that I’m living with.

You seem to tie me not sleeping with being unable to work on healing. All I have done from the very beginning of this is to focus and work on healing. Why do you think I post on HH and ask questions? Its to get insight from others who are going through the same thing. What works for one will not necessarily work for another, but in hearing different viewpoints and ideas, I’ve been able to hone and work my way through this mess the best that I can. To find what works for me. When HH hasn’t helped me find an answer, there’ve been the books, the articles, the friends I’ve spoken with, the therapy and the endless hours of working with my H to find our way through this. My goodness: I’m not avoiding the work of healing! But why would you assume that your answer HAS to be the right answer for me?

If for you, meds helped, that’s awesome. I know to my core that its not my path. That’s not pride speaking. That’s me speaking. Its my life experience. Should I do something I’m uncomfortable with when I’m already in the most uncomfortable experience of my life????

You said “Because what if getting a full nights sleep allowed you to focus on healing instead of on “feeling” Wow. Susan, are you saying that all of us on HH that are struggling and battling and coping with feeling are somehow avoiding healing and the work involved with that because we’re too busy crying, screaming, or whatever?

This is the last place on earth that I need to feel “judged”. I found what you said incredibly hurtful. To call my decision one that is driven by pride and to assume that I’m not working towards healing truly oversteps. I’m absolutely open to whatever ideas are recommended here, but to criticize me for not choosing a particular means or method is not cool.

I still thank you for your opinion, Susan. Its through discussion that we learn and grow. But worthwhile discussion needs to be done in a place of mutual respect...even when...especially when... we don’t agree or understand why someone’s doing something differently than we would.

BlueIris and Susan - I feel torn here - but in the tearing I feel there is truth and misunderstanding on both sides - As is so often the case in life, in marriage etc.  I believe there are many different paths and truths and we are all different.  I also suspect that Susan only meant the best - In fact I would bet on it.  I try to be open to all possibilities and all ways forward.. goodness we need all the openings we can find. 

By coincidence I have just responed to another post her about "waking up" to face and deal with the pain and hurt - And for me too BlueIris the only way has been the way that felt the most painful - but I do not feel I cold reach healing other than by facing as much of the awful horror as I had strength for.  And still I am not sure I am at what I will grasp as reality.. Still I feel I am having to work to drive out the shadows and chimeras of my own mind's imaginings.  To me this whole experience has been something of a wake up call - A wake up to the reality and also to the dreams that I have held and my wife too.  I can now see how easy it is to be oh so satisfied by hiding my head under the pillow.  To me then meds are a soft landing that I chose not to take and, indeed I have been careful to try to stay unclouded as much as I can.  But I still fear the machinations of my own mind - I still feel asleep and sleepwalking sometimes.  I still wake up wondering what reality really is.  I still question my own sanity it is true. 

So... you judge for yourselves and try to sort your own problems out.. as we all have to do.  I certainly appreciate the toughest judgements I recieve here also myself as I can do with the kind friendly perspectives offered by all.  Sometimes it is the hardest medicene to take isn't it.

may you be safe and well, contented and happy

Dear sweet Jerry, Thanks for jumping in and attempting to smooth the waters. I agree with you that Susan probably had only the best intentions. She is so much further along in the process of healing than I. Perhaps our "burp" in understanding has more to do with just being in different phases of healing.

Again, I truly don't expect to be agreed with 100% of the time, nor to agree with anyone on the board 100%. But in my sharing my feelings and experiences along the way, I would hope that those who respond would be coming from a place of what helped them in the same circumstance as opposed to what they feel would help me. We all are doing the very best we can to navigate these waters and there isn't one clear map or set of instructions that works across the board for all of us.

May we all find our way...as quickly, safely and lovingly as possible. BlueIris

When it comes to using neurological medications to control emotional state, I have been seen both sides of this and I truly feel that we each have to make the choice that works best for us. That's not to say that every person using them or ever person not using them is making the best choice, but it's ultimately their decision to make.

I chose to avoid the medications. I decided early on that I wanted to move through my healing as far as possible without anything that would cause me to be less connected to the experience. I thought that using medications would prolong my healing process, because it would delay the processing of the traumas that I had encountered. I wouldn't call that pride, although maybe that is what it was. My wife decided to use anti-depressants. She felt that she needed them because (I think) she thought she was falling short as a mother. I respected her decision to go that route. I don't see it as a weak choice for her or anything like that. She made the best decision for herself and for our family.

I don't really understand how BlueIris' choice was based on pride, or why that conclusion was made. Maybe it would help to get an explanation of that.

TomJ

No I'm not angry. Why would I be angry?

What I read is a person pacing the halls, crying, struggling, waking up her husband, and unless I'm clear off base, asking for help/ideas/support

You posted on Deeper. Are you over a year past dday with a supportive and repentive (is that a word?) husband and you are still walking the halls? To me that seems like a really bad place to be and might warrant a course correction.

To me - CLEARLY - the current path is not going well...

if you've read the books, talked to a rabbi, gone to MC/IC and still the crying/sobbing/pacing the floors, feeling broken, loss of joy in your life, lack of quality sleep and ... well...questioning the decisions seemed logical.

I'm not forcing you to do anything - I'm questioning your assumptions. You didn't say you were opposed to meds for religious reasons or that you struggled with addiction issues or that you were all natural or had bad experiences. You said "For me, I needed to experience the reaction to what was happening" and if it's been a year - my guess is that you've experienced it.

I was suggesting you rethink your options. I don't want to enable you by saying "you're doing great, stay the course, don't change a thing, oh you are so strong" when (it seems) even after a year things are not going well.

I'm suggesting you question your assumptions and consider an option.

Google "sleep depreviation judgement" and look for anything that says lack of sleep helps you make better decisions.

I know what helped me. My job at the time demanded I have a clear head. The sleepless route only clouded my awake decisions. Between the stress of this and the stress at work, I needed an alternative to pacing the floors.

I was suggesting you consider a path that worked for me. You're free to choose your own.

-Susan

Yes. At one year, my wife still had me doing the crazy circles. She wasn't ready to accept her responsiblity at that point. Even one year after she did accept responsibility and come clean with everything, I was still having my days each month that we sleepless. Why? Because I was processing.

Fortunately, although I have a job that demands a high level of concentration, it's not a life-or-death kind of job, and my attention deficit (which was real AND signficant) was something I was able to work around. I could have been more effective than I was, but I was effective enough. I think if I were in a different position I might have needed to consider taking medications. But I wasn't, and so I didn't.

I know Peggy Vaugh has said that it takes most people at least two years to reach a level of emotional stability that a person can function "normally". If you're still struggling to rediscover normal at only 12 months and your situation doesn't demand a higher level of emotional stability, then taking medication is still an open option.

At the same time, Susan's point of suggesting looking at options is also wise. We usually get into ruts in our recovery, some of which are deeply damaging to the recovery process. Always be ready to re-evaluate the ways you're approaching recovery and look for better ways. Some days are simply about survival, but there are always days of strength where a clearer mind and look at other options.

Tom

Hi Blue - I am the "other Susan" - wonder if I should change my name...

Anyway, I am a terrible insomniac and totally relate to the hall pacing, crying...for me that went on way into the second year....and came on with a fury with each new discovery.
I found that the craziness was somewhat cyclical. I would be OK for a couple of week and then the enormity of the betrayal would overwhelm me and I would fall back into the pit. Two weeks ago, and 19 months into recovery, when the final installment was revealed, I went into a bad place - a return of the gut-wrenching sobbing accompanied by wall punching.

I did choose the medication route but totally, totally respect your decision not to. We are all influenced by our backgrounds - I came from a family of doctors and always believed in the relief modern medicine could provide. But you must get through your way and I totally respect your decision.

For me, the IC and MC has been far more critical to recovery than the medications. And, no matter what, the pain is sometimes unbearable. I think we have to walk through it to get to the other side. So sorry you are hurting.

Blue,

My opinion 7 years past d day is that we all have to process the information in our own unique way. I chose to stay clear of meds because of my family experiences being very dramatic. I witnessed one family member get so docile he was almost never awake to another family member falling out of bed due to med changes and breaking off his front teeth. A family disease that haunts our family made meds totally out of the question for me.

I did try some over the counter sleeping aids a couple of times but found they just prolonged the agony. When the sleepy haze left my body, it seemed twice as hard to deal with the concerns. I would also only get about 2-4 hours of sleep with med aid and with out I could get 1-3 hours of sleep in a night. That didn't make it worth while to do.

I honestly think that plugging through the process is very personal in each unique situation. I was a complete mess for a good two years and things slowly started subsiding for me up to the 3 1/2 year point. At 2 1/2 to the 3 1/2 year point the crying subsided slowly and suddenly I didn't have the energy to cry over something I had no control over. It just seemed to click in my head one day that none of this was my fault what so ever. I had said the words that I wasn't responsible for any of what happened but obviously my subconscious mind wasn't convinced yet.

In my opinion my H chose to stay with me and help me overcome the complete destruction he caused to our marriage so I didn't ease up on shielding him from the agony and pain I was enduring. My course of healing did hinge on the remorse my H showed convincing me our marriage was worth continuing to work on. If he hadn't shown sufficient remorse I would have chose to leave him and would have had to take a slightly different journey in recovering infidelity.

I'll admit our marriage had fallen into a complacent arms length routine life. However the state of mind my H occupied for many years welcoming all the outside distractions did set the tone of our relationship. He seemed to be frustrated and judgmental to me and the kids but seemed to get out and enjoy himself very comfortably with friends and strangers . I used to think he was a people person.(Little did I know he was busting out to reach out to other people and finding reasons to dismiss us.)

After d day I could no longer tolerate the arms distant approach he once used to deal with me. For him to consistently drop his old behaviors took time and many ups and downs on his part. His roller coaster of emotions seemed to intimidate me further into despair. In hindsight now I realize our ups and downs did influence our recovery and often prolong it.

Where my H and I were concerned the question at the forefront was are we ticking good enough to stay together. When a partner goes from a courting and very convincing personality that convinces you and himself that we would make a great pair then the marriage has meaning. I did not let myself go astray, he did. He turned his attentions to outside people trying to convince them he was open to new relationships and interactions. Suddenly our complacent family raising life style didn't fulfill me any more. Without his commitment being obvious, I had trouble staying focused on our relationship. He burdened himself with convincing me that he wanted our relationship to be #1. The blind trust is gone in that aspect of his life. The truth of the matter is that he feared trusting so in essence he lived his life not trusting me to convince himself what he was doing was OK.

Amber

As Amber said:   "The truth of the matter is that he feared trusting so in essence he lived his life not trusting me to convince himself what he was doing was OK. "

I believe that this very thing was perphaps the essential reason for my wife's A.  She did not trust me .. or anyone much come to that.. and particularly any man.

may you be safe and well, contented and happy

Jerry - what are you doing up so late, dear man? My H and I are waiting for laundry to dry so we can fold it together (large sheets and such that goes faster with two sets of hands).

I so agree with what Amber, and then you, said about trust. H and I have found as we are autopsying the scenario, that H has never trusted me completely. Nor anyone. His family history alone would make his ability to do that almost impossible. Coupled with a pair of bad relationships before he and I were together and, voila: he'd been absolutely trained to withhold the deepest parts of himself. I thought I was marrying the whole kit and kaboodle - - no secrets and complete trust. In fact, that's what I offered, but it wasn't what I was getting.

This lack of trust wasn't something brought on by me, but still it hurts that our love...my love...wasn't loud enough or clear enough that he could feel safe.

If he'd married someone else, I know he would've had an A within that marriage. H wasn't fully invested and until he spiralled out of control and caused crisis for himself and those around him, it wasn't going to change.

I'll write more tomorrow. Have been thinking a lot about what so many have written, but the sheets must be folded, and its time to turn in. May restful sleep find us all. BlueIris

BlueIris.. I am not in your time zone as I am in the UK.. So that explains my "late night".. when in fact it was early morning here.  Mind you.. I have also been losing my nights to this too!

Thank you for your comments which seem to be helping me understand and are right on where I am at the moment.  Trust.  And the problem now for me is not that I mistrust she will do it again - It is more about do I trust she can actually love me.  And, right now I doubt this very much - I feel she has a deeply embedded behavour pattern and is still not really recognising her own problems.  Her current response is more or less "why can't we go back to how we were before".. And my heart sinks with that prospect now.  I can no longer accept that level of connection.. I must have more.. I will not accept any less.  Otherwise I cannot be happy.  I know this may sound selfish but I view this as claiming what any human has the right to expect from a spouse.

Oh.. and I am not sure I understand your last para and I have a feeling you may  not have said it right - Or we dissagree - My view is that my wife was fundamentally unable to commit at the time we marrried.. So.. She might have ended up having an A with someone else as her spouse.  All I know is that I certainly gave her the space for it because of my (now I can see and say this) "blind" commitment.

The only acceptable way is to be committed and very awake to reality!

may you be safe and well, contented and happy.

Yes Jerry the "blind commitment or trust" used to come so naturally but now after it has been been slaughtered it has to be earned back. My H grew up trusting or committing to no one except himself and he grew into an adult with that same mind frame. However this does not excuse what he did. It may explain his rationalization but you don't go around treating life partners that way. The love he showed OW or me had no substance. The quality of love I require now is much more complex. The love displayed to seek attention and maintain an intimate love connection was the love H used to swoon me and motivate OW. For a very long time I expected H to portray this intoxicating love that he used to prove himself to OW. We need hard core evidence that our spouses are on the right track to recovery. Wanting to be more for me than he was to OW spoke volumes to me. Surviving recovery together is hard but convinces the hurt party that the other person is in it for the right reasons. I would have considered attention born out of a romantic connection as "kissing the other's ass", before I had lived through the dismissal of love. Now I expect my H to keep that quality and aspect of love alive because it motivated him so much in the past.

Amber

Blueiris

I just wanted to jump in at this late stage - what an interesting thread.

I am just over two years past d day1 and six months past d day 3. So, at 8-12months I was still hurting bad. I did not have the full truth, and always had that gut feeling that there was more to know. I too have sleep problems (some periods worse than others), and I too chose the drug free route. Now I am not saying that is the correct route, because I can see Susans point and maybe I would have been able to have been a little more rational than I had at times lol. But whether I was right or wrong, thats what I did.

At 18mths, and the release of more info, I had a choice of throwing in the towel, or continuing the M. How could I possibly believe a word he was saying from now on? H was still very remorseful (wanted to keep from hurting me so retained info)- big mistake!, if I stayed I would need tangible proof of his commitment to repairing the M, he had run out of chances, and I had reached my boundary. H willingly had a legal contract drawn which states if he has any unreasonable behaviour, all of his assets pass to me. Essentially he has agreed to leave with nothing if he slips, and we have discussed this with our grown up children. That is one of, and only one of his actions to help repair 'us'. I say us because yes I still feel down, but I can now see that no matter how hard he tries, he can't switch my life back on unless I make the effort to help repair me too.

Now I have been advised that this 'contract' may not be quite as water tight as I had thought, but the genuine effort of my H to go to the solicitor to have this drawn up was at that time the effort I needed. You will still be very raw at this point in time, but you will get to the stage hopefully that you will be able to see after a certain period he is not responsible every time you are feeling down. It takes a long time for the shock to subside, and I am sure that PTSD is responsible for most of these later really low feelings together with lack of sleep.

I wish you well on your journey, all we can do is share our experiences and take from them what we will. I value the input of everyone on HH sometimes straight talking is the 2*4 that I have needed at a certain place! lol and other times gentle reassurance has been the ticket, as I have sobbed my heart out.


Hugs to everyone