This is scary for me to share in public but this forum seems safe and sensitive. It's been 17 months since d-day and I've exhausted every other process of recovery and healing - IC, books, friends, self exam, sense of humor, and a RS who has been a true healer of Olympic caliber. Once he confessed he never needed any prompting or instruction, he just knew exactly what to do to start to put the pieces of me and us back together. However, H would also be a top contender for gold medals in: 1) A length - 11 years and 2) stupid, brain-dead, fateful, and costly decisions - giving OW the ultimate parting gift, a child. So I became a surprise step-mother of a 4 yr old when I found out about A. We've been married 35 years, have 2 adult D's, and have grandchildren almost their newfound aunt's age. Everything I've read about healing from infidelity emphasizes the need to have OW out of the picture. It just can't be - this sweet, innocent child has a daddy committed to being a presence in her life. My C, with 35 years of listening to all kinds of stories in her office, had not heard one like this before. None of the books I've read talk about dealing w/OW in this manner. I don't have any friends or acquaintences who have gone through infidelity (or admit to anyway). I didn't see a topic in this forum about children from an affair, though I may have missed it. I just feel so isolated sometimes, with this particular aspect adding serious insult to overwhelming injury. I just discovered this forum and it's certainly been very validating so far, but I feel pretty hopeless that with OW and OC as forever reminders and powerful triggers I may never feel whole and at peace again. I welcome support from anyone, and if there is someone who has been through anything similar I hope you've been able to make it work and are willing to share. Thanks all.
Welcome to our site. I'm glad you joined and posted your story. You are not alone, as there have been people here in the past who are dealing with situations very similar to yours, including children who are a product of their spouse's affair. Some also had remorseful spouses who want to reconcile. I don't know if any of those people are reading our forum right now, but if they are and they read your story, I'm sure they'd respond to you.
You're right that the best way to start toward affair recovery is to break all contact with the OP. However, as in your situation, there are places where that is not possible. As an example, we had a member who's husband's affair partner was her sister. It was a very difficult situation for her. In some situations the affair partner is a neighbor or a member of a small community and moving is not an option.
When the situation is one where contact is required and unavoidable, I believe it's important that the marriage couple be very, very clear that the affair relationship is perminantly ended. There can be no room for doubt on anyone's part, since any hint of continuation of the affair is damaging the marriage, and can even lead to the other person interfering with the reconcilation, or a resumption of the affair. There needs to be strong, verifiable boundaries to avoid any possiblity of resuming the affair.
Rebuilding of trust is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in reconciliation, even when all contact with the OP is ended. When continued contact is required, as in a situation like yours, it is even more difficuilt to avoid the fears and paranoia (as justified as they are) that go along with the aftermath of betrayal. However, I believe it is possible to recover even under conditions like yours. Conditions that promote trust can be maintained for any interaction with the OP as required for parenting of the OC. Triggers will often subside over time as you are exposed to them and your emotional reactions are desensitized. It usually takes years to work through these triggers, and other issues required to truely reconcile, so patience is an important virtue for both the wayward spouse and the betrayed one.
I'm glad you posted and shared your situation. I hope that others will respond to your post to encourage you in this difficult situation.
Like Tom I have known others in the past with a situation like yours. I even met a woman persoanlly that was going through affair recovery with an OC involved. It is not easy, but it can be done. I think you are way ahead of the game because you have compasion for the child, many people can not bring themselves to feel anything but anger toward the child of thier WS and the OP. So I admire you already.
As Tom said, boundaries are key. Talk this out endlessly with your husband. Set clear rules for how contact with the child's mother is to be, with the understanding that if it isn't working for you it can be changed. Just keep in mind the well fare of the child.
As to the triggers...Again, Tom is right they do fade with exposure, acceptance and time. You are still relatively new to this. Give yourself time. Believe that it is possible to make this work, and maintain as much intimacy with your husband as possible on all levels.
If you like I have some articles on intimacy I could send you. Just email me at cbsy@msn.com">cbsy@msn.com ; and I will send them your way. They were extremely helpful to my husband and I in our recovery, intimacy is way more than romance.
Also their is a program for married couples who are dealing with some very difficult problems I highly recommend. go to www.retrouvaille.org and reserve a w/e for you and your H.
My H and I are 7 years past our D-day. I rarely trigger anymore, even on the hardest ones to over come. And when I do they do not effect me as deeply as they once did. I have found peace with the infidelity.
Ami
This message has been edited by Amistandingstill on Dec 2, 2008 5:33 PM
Welcome to our loving and safe place of healing. You are not alone.
It was 8 years ago that I learned my beloved husband of 30 years had FOUR affairs.
Today we are truly healed and very much in love. I thought that would be impossible. This board, and the incredible angels I call my friends played a huge role in my healing.
We also went to counseling for about three years. I have read every book I could find on adultery. One of the BEST resources is dearpeggy.com she is Peggy Vaughn author of the best book " The Monogamy Myth".
She has a collection of articles including one on OC from an affair.
There are also several members here who do have an OC.
One person is Kat. Write a request to her using her name and she will respond. She is about 10 years past d day and a wonderful friend.
I don't remeber who else, but the old timers usually hang out on Open. Write a post there asking for info and they will respond. We all care and do what we can to help. Start with dearpeggy.com and read everything she writes, she is a betrayed wife and counselor who has helped more people than can be counted.
Healing takes time and hard work but it is worth it.
I'm so grateful for your responses. And amazed how really good it feels to hear such things from people who have been through this, too. That's completely new for me. Thanks, TomJ, Ami, fairyfriend, and El for your support. I will follow up on the resources you referred me to as well. H and I are actually doing quite well as far as our relationship goes - everything about it has improved 100-fold. We have dissected every aspect and have achieved a lot of understanding about what made him vulnerable to an A and why it continued so long. His boundaries w/OW now are firm and undeniable. We're both sure it's over. Once the secret was out she lost her allure and her hold. I've desensitized myself by accompanying H to pick ups and drop offs of OC. On behalf of OC but also, I admit, to mark my territory and show OW that H and I are impermeable. There is no more triangle. So I no longer go, don't want to see OW if I can help it. She's apparantly grateful that I'm kind to her child and will do no harm. Everything is fairly civilized, oddly enough.
So what's wrong with this picture? It's the pain, anger, and hurt I still feel. Most days now it's a mild undercurrent. But the tsunamis still hit, less frequently, but with equal force. Sometimes I look at this man who I loved for 37 years before d-day, who I always trusted 150%, and who I counted on for a lifelong, faithful marriage -- and I just crumble into a pile of tears and despair. Because he lied to me, deceived me, cheated on me, and covered it so incredibly well. I really had no clue, and feel so foolish to never have been suspicious. So your testimonies that it is possible to heal after such awfulness touch me with hopeful tears. Thanks again.
I have not posted in so long..... it took me a while to get back in lol
No laughing matter tho. I felt EL was paging me and I HAD to answer.
OC is 11 years old now. OW is married and has had 2 more children. They reside 1 1/2 hour away from us. My H is the father of this child albeit not his daddy. OW has not allowed visitation at our house since OC was a few months old - and to be totally honest it is fine with me. H visits every so often and it no longer "bothers" me. You see, she has played that nasty game: no man then no child....and again it is fine with me. I know H has suffered by her decision, he adores babies but OC is no longer a baby and he has made peace with the fact another man has been raising his child.
I am over 10 years past D-day. I did not forget - I cannot forget unless I have a lobotomy ! but it is now in the past where it belongs. The crazy quilt which is our life has been strengthened by our efforts, weaving and patching, here and there. Was it easy? NO -
Kat darling,
I was rushing out when I read AJ's post. I had to write fast. I just got home and should be in bed, but of course had to check in.
When you write I was paging you and you had to check in.. well dear friend, I was thinking of you all evening.
We are all so incredibly connected here!
Years ago, Kat and I were supposed to meet. Unfortunately about an hour before our meeting there was a ridiculous ice/snow storm in the South where she lives and we were visiting!
I have always thought of her as one of the special people on this board who held out their hand for me when I was a newbie.
Kat has a loving heart and a passion for helping. She is a special person and once again she was here when we needed her.
I have no experience with there being an OC, but I understand how in your situation the OW will remain involved. As long as it is in an appropriate manner...
((((((((((HUGS))))))))))) I am sorry you are in such an awkward and painful situation. However, you do seem to be handling this with dignity and grace...and you are to be commended for your strength in doing so
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
What a quick response from Kat - I like your statement about the quilt. I need reminders like that about how these terrible trials can strengthen us. And grateful for the positive vibes from Cal. It feels so good to not be alone in this, but I wish no one had to go through such trauma. I feel so much more hopeful, after hearing from some of you "old timers" that peace will be in my heart some day.
First Deeper is the LEAST used board. You would get the most responses over on Open. That is for betrayers, and old timers. We all hang out there cause we have been together for years. The betrayers who mostly write there are old timers whom we affectionately call Former Betrayers. They have truly truly earned our love and respect and give so much to help us all heal. They share their HONEST learnings with us. They are responsible for tremendous insight, love and growth here. They have learned from their mistakes and write from their heart. Go there only if you are ready. We recommend about a year after d day to take a look there.
Otherwise Healing Heart is for the new people under a year or so past d day. Deeper is for over a year, but most people graduate to Open. So your post will get the least attention on deeper.
As far as healing...
This is what worked for me. Counseling, and writing here and talking to my wonderful friends and reading everything I could find especially Peggy Vaughn's books and her dearpeggy.com website.
I also like Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and Smart Marraiges.com
There is a great article by Dr. Glass that helped tremendously I will try to find it.
Also check out our helpful links over on the left for lots of good advice.
Your marraige CAN grow and thrive despite the hell you have been through. 8 years ago despite loving my husband with all of my heart for most of my life, I thought we had NO chance.
He worked with all his strength every day every moment to earn my forgivness. I however, have not forgiven and am ok with it. What he did was horrible. I used to hate that I could not forgive. I am now ok with it. I accept what happened and am grateful for all his efforts SINCE d day to earn my love and respect. Because of his efforts he has earned a place once more in my heart and life.
I do love and trust him now. However, it will never be 100% as it once was, he knows it, and we are both grateful that each day my feelings grow. I have no regrets that I gave him a second chance. With or without him I would never forget what happened and the agony. However, he is now a truly different man who has done everything humanly possible to prove worthy of the love I once had for him. Each day I am more and more grateful that we stayed together and worked it out.
My therapist told us it would take brutal honesty with no holding back of our feelings. He had to answer all the questions I asked and I had to be prepared to hear the worst. That went on for about 3 years or so till I got bored with my own thoughts. Now, when I have those dark thoughts that last a minute or two and I can handle my feelings. I no longer need to talk about it. Once in a while I do need to talk about the past with my friends here, but for the most part I am really really healed. To me this was an impossible dream, and I stay here to write that for anyone who is willing to put in the incredible work healing is totally possible.
We like to say there are three types of healing, yours, his and the marraige. At first all you are responsible for is YOUR healing. He must carry the heavier burden. In time you will pitch in and do your share, but in the begining just take care of you.
Are you in counseling? What have you read?
We care about you AJ. You will find many wonderful people here who will be available to help you through this nightmare. All we ask is that you pay it forward. One day you will be an old timer reaching out to a newbie offering a helping hand. Share what you have learned and how you healed. This is what makes our board a place of love.
Although there is no OC in our case, my H gave his OW a similarly stupid parting gift: a joint project which involves other people's careers and couldn't be terminated until all commitments had been finalised. Unfortunately in our case the ongoing contact because of this project meant that the affair continued for three years after my initial discovery, a perfect example of why no contact is so important.
Since the final discovery (third one), in August 2007, H has done everything right. OW still gets in touch about the project (sometimes with personal comments that show a total lack of understanding or evidence of remorse, as when she recommended he see Married Life, a film about adultery, because he "will like it"). Our strategy is to talk it to death. We discuss what he would do if he met her unexpectedly, if she contacted him, if he heard her marriage had broken up, when there is a real need for them to communicate, any possible scenario we can imagine. When she does contact him (three times since D-day #3 last year) he tells me immediately and lets me say how I want him to deal with it. We then plan his response. If she phones him he will say he is in a meeting and can't talk now, and then get me to be in the room when he responds. When she tried to be "friendly" he sent a totally professional response which did not acknowledge anything but the work issues.
In a way your OC is a bit like this project: innocent people have been hurt and could be hurt more if two very weak and pathetic people don't get it right. Unfortunately OW just doesn't get this and is still very much in the fog; your OW seems like maybe she does get it and can see clearly the consequences of her actions and is thinking of the child, not herself (our OW certainly still thinks of herself first). You can make the plans as we do; your initial response of going with him to collect the child must have been reassuring. As the OC gets older the need for contact with her mum will get less. Can a third party be involved so H doesn't have to go to OW's house? I'm sure there was someone on here who had worked out different ways to minimise contact with OW without affectign the relationship of the dad with OC.
You said "So what's wrong with this picture? It's the pain, anger, and hurt I still feel. Most days now it's a mild undercurrent. But the tsunamis still hit, less frequently, but with equal force. Sometimes I look at this man who I loved for 37 years before d-day, who I always trusted 150%, and who I counted on for a lifelong, faithful marriage -- and I just crumble into a pile of tears and despair. Because he lied to me, deceived me, cheated on me, and covered it so incredibly well. I really had no clue, and feel so foolish to never have been suspicious."
This resonates so strongly with me. We were married 24 years before D-day #1, 29 at D-day #3. I never really suspected, and certainly between #2 and #3 I truly thought he was out of the fog. I look back on his remorseful and grateful messages from that time and know he was lying to me, to OW, to himself. I do feel foolish and shocked, disgusted, appalled at how easily he lied to me and how easily I believed him. The only thing I can salvage is that he never wanted to leave me and the real lie was the lie to OW that he might. His main fear throughout the affair was that I would find out and leave him. How could a man who claims I am the only one he has ever loved treat me in ways which he knew would destroy me? When did he get so good at inventing cover stories and at looking me in the eye as he told me a lie? He can't answer that, except by admitting he was mentally disturbed, self-centred and obsessive about getting OW to let him go without him being the bad guy. I have the same tsunamis which can come because of some small trigger on a fine sunny day, so the pain, anger and hurt you feel is normal. 17 months is not a long time (about the same time as since my D-day #3); I think this is probably a lifetime healing process.
Hugs
Liz
This message has been edited by lizmcg on Dec 3, 2008 4:13 PM
I'm privileged to read your heartfelt testimonies, El and Liz. I feel so understood for the first time since this happened. That's what's been missing and that was what I was hoping would happen when I posted on this board. Everyone's responses so far have reached different places in me that had previously been empty and longing. I read your stories and am amazed and reassured that the deepest feelings, thoughts, and experiences you expressed are also mine, almost word by word. I felt so alone before, and thought I was just plain nuts sometimes because of what I thought and felt--It's great to not feel that way anymore
Thanks for the clarification about the functions of the boards. I'm ready for Open, and I know my H would be, too. El, your description of your H and his efforts sound exactly like my RS. I've never been able to help family and friends understand how from d-day, even d-minute, H put my welfare and healing first, still does, and that has helped us overcome the absolute horror of his behavior for 11 years. And your comment about asking questions and brutal honesty - wow - we sure have done that almost to death and now I find sometimes I, too, am getting bored with some of my own thoughts. What a great way to state that! Liz, talk about resonating! I ask the same questions over and over, and we've talked endless hours about this. He never wanted to leave me, never stopped loving me, but also never wanted to be the bad guy. Denial and control were key defenses that got him through the years. But it took it's toll - he hated himself throughout, lost all integrity and self-worth, always felt there was no way out, and considered suicide. He was sure I and our daughters, families, and friends would never want anything to do w/him if the secret came out. I'm sad that the scoundrel I still love so much was in such distress for so long, but he made himself a stranger to his own wife, deliberately put himself in that situation, and is responsbible for the mess he created. All that said, it sounds like you and your H are on the same recovery road, even with its bumps and occasional detours, as we are. The cost had been monumental, but the benefits to the relationship in terms of closeness, solidarity, and openness are the payoffs.
I hope to pay it forward in this forum. It's never been my nature to be so self-centered and needy. I've had great IC (I'm actually a psychotherapist myself - we're certainly not immune from denial!) I found "Not Just Friends..." most helpful for validation now, and "After the Affair" most helpful during the initial crisis. Someone gave me "my husband's affair became the best thing to happen to me" and I threw it in the trash!
Have to run. Thanks again. I just can't get over how helpful this is.
So much of what you said in your last post would go for my husband too. He also hated himself and contemplated suicide many times during the 4.5 years of his affair. He now says he lived with the knowledge that it would all end in disaster, and yet he kept telling himself that he could sort it out, that if he just waited a little while OW would realise she didn't want/need him and let him go. I think his priority was for her to exit the affair with both their dignities intact, and then he would deal with me. Unfortunately she couldn't do it and kept coming back to him, making him feel bad (why have you given up on our love, why do you have to be so mean to me, why can't we just be friends). When he had to see her for the project he would catch her looking at him sadly, and she would ring before any meetings trying to get him to agree to lunch or dinner with her alone. Because he never told her how he really felt (that he wanted to get rid of her but didn't want to hurt her and make himself the bad guy) she must have thought that he was equally keen to be alone with her, and he had to make all kinds of excuses (not in my home town where someone might see us, I have to leave early for my son's birthday, it's not going to work out this time but we will be together some day). Getting her to end the affair became more important than making our marriage work, because it was more immediate, and the marriage was always there in the background. It's partly to do with the double life, where somehow he could compartmentalise life with me and life with her. But he says he always knew that life with me was real and life with her was an unwanted fantasy (nightmare). I asked him about their last sexual encounter (a three year gap since the previous time, during which they had phoned and e-mailed but he had always managed to avoid being with her) - did he think of me? No, he thought of nothing, had to blank his mind out because it was the only way he could get through it. Not very flattering to OW, and makes me so mad, that he knew all this and yet still went ahead with it.
I guess if you are a psychotherapist you know all about male depression, but a book we both found very helpful and keep going back to is "I don't want to talk about it" by Terrance Real. He discusses how male depression is often covert and manifests in addictive behaviour of one sort or another - gambling, alcohol or drugs, sex. In my H's case it was the obsession with getting OW to let him go, with exiting the affair as the good guy. My H describes his feelings for most of the affair as nothingness; anomie is the word he used, a sense of blackness and blankness. The A made it much worse because it overlaid a feeling of impending doom which he was never without. That's what made him think everything would be OK if he could just get out of the affair without OW blaming him. It was only when I discovered what was going on for the third time that he realised he could only begin to feel better if he accepted that he WAS the bad guy, that it was his responbilitily, that he did use OW, but at the same time she used him, so that both of them were equally to blame and he had to make the decision himself. No doubt this is what your H has gone through as well, hitting rock bottom and then beginning to climb out of the hole by remorse, acknowledgement and reparation to the betrayed spouse.
You don't say how you discovered the A and OC, but it is never easy and never instant so I imagine you went through long sessions of probing and gradually finding more and more details. I think for all of us BS, the worst part is the secret life that was going on, which in retrospect taints all those years of the affair, as well as the years before and after. I say to my H that he and OW stole my future, destroyed my present and contaminated my past. How can I think back on family occasions, holidays, professional successes when I know that his mind was elsewhere much of the time. How can I live in the house where she and her family shared a meal and a swim? How can I go to work past the motel where they went for an afternoon quickie or the cafe where we had lunch together the next day? How can I interact normally with him when I remember how he said she was always cheerful, made him feel good, let him be irresponsible? We have two children, a cat, a mortgage, elderly relatives, stressful jobs: these are responsibilities and I thought that sharing them made it easier - he thought he deserved to run away. Grrrrrrrrr!
Didn't mean this to be so long - I don't post often here now but still read and remember the (not always welcome) advice I have received here over the four years since I found the site. You seem pretty healthy and in a good place: I wish you all the best with your recovery.
Liz,
Just lost a long response I wrote, somehow. Don't have the hang of this yet. But in a nutshell, everything you wrote is so true. Especially the need to re-write and re-feel our family life and experiences during those A years now through the filter of H's misery, lies, and cheating. Every photo taken during those 11 years and every date mentioned, regardless of the topic, triggers pain. I thought I shared all the joys of vacations, holidays, D's wedding, birth of grandchild, etc etc with my H. I can never feel the same about anything that occurred then - he spoiled all of it. This is the hardest thing for me to do right now, to try to reclaim some good memories and feelings of those times. Desensitization helps, looking at photos, talking about these times w/him. And we're certainly treasuring new joys now. But what I lost can't be replaced, ever. And I remain very angry. Also similar is how my H has talked about feeling empty, horrified, and guilty throughout A, but addicted. It's amazing, though in hindsight, to see compartmentalization in action, and how sick it really is. It stinks that lessons of insight and consequences often can only be learned the hard way and after such excruciating pain. You asked how I found out - it was sudden, a confession early one morning. My life shattered within 90 seconds and especially after the words "There's been someone else." If, Dr. Glass says,
the severity of the trauma is directly related to the degree of trust and lack of suspicion, then I scored high on all 3. But we started trying to heal right away. Now I realize that the work we did during the period I was in shock (the first 6 months at least) just scratched the surface. It is a long process but I do see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. This site helps, as well as your well wishes. I hope your journey gets easier too. Thanks,
AJ
Your experience seems very similar to mine. I foudn out one sunny Saturday afternoon when H and I had just driven across tohis office. He was agitated, I was chatting to ease the situation when he said "I've got something to tell you", and then "I've been having a relationship with someone else". We sat in the car in the garage for an hour while the story came out. He confessed because OW said her H knew all about it. He wanted it to end and he had the feeling from OW that she was expecting him to go off with her. He told me so it would give her the message that it was over. But unlike your H, he couldn't let go immediately, in fact it took another three years of covert meetings, discoveries and near discoveries. That time was very damaging. I have so much anger and disgust for what he did (see also Ami's response to Jerry's post on Open), and yet I want us to stay together. But can I ever truly believe him when he says he will never do this again?
One thing is that my H thought his situation was unique: he said "I often thought they could make a movie of my life", but now he knows he was no different from any other. Although each affair is different in the details, my years reading posts on HH have shown me that the fundamentals are usually there, and depression is often at the core. In a way it's good to be able to account for the behaviour with an organic reason; in another way it makes any promises empty because I just can't be confident that the same clinical state won't come again with the same outcome.
But the similarity of so many stories is what makes posting here so validating. I too wish you all the best - please e-mail me if you want. Click on my name and the e-mail should come up.
Liz
This message has been edited by lizmcg on Dec 6, 2008 1:02 PM
The message screen can time out. For this reason if I am writing a long post I use my word processor to type it out and then copy and paste it to the message screen.
Hello AJ, I am the one with the 18 year betrayal from my wife. I am 3 years post d-day and still struggling. Oddly, I am now training to be psychotherapist.
What you say is true - as it is for others here. The child is an added extra dimension.
I am not sure what to say to you to help - My main sensation in response to you is to empathise and wish you well - and to say also that all the pain and all these events do change over time - And, of course, as you know, life and everything in it, for me at least, will never be the same again.
What a difference the past week has made for me by all of these helpful responses. It's impossible to measure these things but I know I gained more in a week on this board than any other week since d-day. Last night I shared all these w/H and he was very moved by the insight and respect reflected here. Liz, he could certainly relate to your H's desire to try to keep his and OW's dignity intact by hoping the affair would just succumb to a natural death, but he also freely admits that that he was often the one who didn't want to let go of her, and what she provided for him - feeling "desired, wanted, needed" in a new way that he didn't feel w/me. For him A wasn't medication for depression, his depression resulted from his A, lying to and cheating on me, and the loss of his self-respect, integrity, and entire identity. Instead, OW provided a rush to his male ego, plain and simple. He entered a vicious cycle between horror at his behavior and repeating it for the temporary high it provided. How pathetic that such a lapse of judgement and compromise of values can cause so much devastation. So what about trust? I think what helped me start to grow that again, from d-day on, was what seemed to be H's complete honesty about his involvement w/OW over the 11 years. And everything he said from the beginning has stood the test of time and been consistent. He never wanted to use depression as a rationale for his behavior, and never blamed OW for keeping A going. He was always frank that his behavior was selfish, unjustified, and absolutely terrible. I think his honesty was part of the penance that he needed pay to in order make real changes that I feel I can trust. My heart really does go out to you, Liz, for the anger you feel, as well as the other awful feelings. Even though everyone's stories have differences, the basic feelings are the same, that's for certain. I hope you're getting complete honesty from your H. As tough as it was for me to hear about the positives the A and OW provided for H, it gave us concrete areas to mend in our own relationship. I had to look at what I needed to address about me, not that it caused the affair, but more to heal us after it. So H's total acceptance of responsibility for A as his choice every step of the way, although incredibly stupid, has helped us alot. I hope you have that, too. I also hope you are able or will be able to treasure every day of a saved marriage. And that your H, as mine, has the absolutely exhiliarating and liberating feeling that results from NOT living the secretive, miserable life of an A. I guess it's like life after a heart attack, nothing is taken for granted anymore. Not that now and the future can make up for what was lost - can't happen. But having fun, laughing, talking, crying together, creates an emotional intimacy that we never had, even before A. Certainly the endless sifting through all this crap has had the unexpected effect of bringing us closer. But also taking big breaks and just trying to be normal again helps, too. I don't know if any of this provides new talking points for you and your H, but I'm grateful for any crumbs of wisdom others provide and hope I can provide some in return. It is a long journey and we need something to follow from those who are ahead of us AJ
Everything you say about your H applies to mine too. He fully acknowledges his responsibility and blame in the affair. Although he now says he never loved OW and never felt right with her, there was some sort of high he was getting from their association: initially making her feel good, and by the end trying to keep her sweet so she would let him go. He was depressed before the affair started, and he thought that maybe it would make him feel something. Well it did: worse and worse. The affair prolonged his bout of depression and deepened it, and it was only after he accepted that he had to be strong and make the break, regardless of her feelings, that he was able to come out of that black pit and start to have some respect for himself again. He thought he would gain self-respect if she would let him go voluntarily but the truth was he could only start to heal when HE actively ended it and took the consequences.
It's been a long road for us both; for him to get to the point when he could see all he had done and for me to start to believe that this time he means it. We still have a long way to go, but we're at least now on the same road!
I sent you an email, Liz. Let me know if you didn't get it. My last post was positive and optimistic. I should know better by now. Another wave always comes and knocks me over again. I've never been an angry person and that's been the hardest feeling to stay with. I think I need to give the pure rage the time it warrants for all the terrible behavior H engaged in. It all just stinks so much - I didn't deserve to be treated like that, no matter what the dynamics are. It's not fair that someone who trusts so completely and purely gets buried in all the dirty crap of an A.
Sounds like a lot of honesty between the 2 of you, Liz. I do hope your H has gotten treatment for his depression, beyond the healing you both are doing together.
Hi dear AJ,
You have been on my mind. I have been reading your posts and remembering... today I was cleaning out old files and found some writings from way back when.
This one in particular stands out, " Experts say the single greatest predictor that couples will recover is the unfaithful spouse's willingness to become the healer".
Reading your posts it sounds like your husband as did mine, has done all he can and is willing to answer all your questions. The problem is you are hurting beyond words and everything is not enough.
Your latest post you talk about how unfair all this is, and how you are now going through the angry stage. I remember well going through this and my therapist explained that what I was feeling was not anger, but rage. Me! To know me is to know a loving caring woman who was totally devoted to her husband. I could not imagine nor understand the thoughts that were racing uncontrollably through my mind and taking over my body.. my leg tapping as I cursed out my husband. Me?? I hardly knew myself..
Dr. Wonderful as I liked to call him, explained that this was poison racing through my system. I needed to learn how to deal with this new emotion. For me writing here and in a journal as well as therapy were my salvation. My friends who listened to me endlessly were of no help.
The loving Angels here understood and listened without complaint offering loving compassion were able to help me understand my emotions.
You write that you are a therapist. I would love to hear more about your practice and orientation.
As much as one studies human behavior, I don't think adultery can ever be understood by a betrayed spouse. Adultery is the ultimate betrayal.
For me after studying this topic relentlessly for 8 years, I have come to a place of acceptance. This has happened in my life. It is much like any other tragic disaster.It had nothing to do with me, it was a train wreck and I am the innocent victim. Accepting my situational trauma was a key point in understanding there was nothing I could have should have done...
This was a behavior that was not done to me, it was a choice he made. His ability to compartmentalize his life allowed him to lead an unimaginable secret life.. a secret so well hidden it bordered on psychiatric.
I was mortified that I who pride myself on my ability to read people could not see this train wreck brewing. I had to learn to forgive myself for being so loving, so trusting and most of all for assuming my values were his values...
However, as a result of all this I have learned life altering lessons. I have learned to trust but not blindly. To accept that we all love differently, even though I believed we loved with all our being. I thought he loved me as I loved him..
I have learned that he loved me to his full capacity and truly believed he was " invisible and invincible" this is a quote from an old member here, and it really helped me understand my H's thinking or lack thereof...
AJ... you have written so eloquently and so succinctly of the range of emotions we all go through.
You are progressing beautifully, though unfortunately here on healing time goes so slowly..
For you it seems that you should/want to be further along.. however in healing time you are moving at warf speed. You have the insight. The mind/body connection however takes it's time.
Our constant plea is that dreaded word time.. but it really makes a difference.
That and writing here at least daily! Please let us know you are reading the helpful links, dearpeggy.com and which books are helping you.
Please also check out the Psychology Today July- August 1999 Shattered Vows Getting Beyond Betrayal by Shirley Glass Ph. D. I believe it is also on her website, and in SmartMarraiges.com
It is the article I told you about in a previous post that really helped me to understand I was dealing with PTSD and needed to be a lot more patient with myself.
Please keep posting and know you are not alone and very much cared about here at healing.
I sit stunned for a few minutes while I absorb yet another heartfelt declaration from someone who is writing my words, thoughts, and feelings to the letter. I came to this site looking for affirmation for the craziness I think and feel and I've gotten so much more in return. This is a healing place. It's helpful to join with someone like Liz who is in the same place now, unfortunate as it is that any of us has be anywhere on this continuum. And it gives me hope to hear from someone like El who is further along in the process. I've had a rough few days but I'm recognizing and trying to accept that this is progress. Since my perception of H was completely shattered I think it's taken this long to start to fit the pieces together of who he was during all those A years with the pieces of who he is now, as well as the pieces of goodness that have been there all along. So complicated to do - it's like trying to make 3 different puzzles into one picture ! That quote about a WS thinking (s)he is "invisible and invincible" helps clarify (somewhat)the impossible question "how can he say he always loved me and still do this to me?" I don't think I'll ever be able to answer that with complete clarity, though. I have read all the resources mentioned here - they're terrific and so validating, too. H and I have just about completed going through "Not Just Friends..." after I read it first and underlined talking points like crazy. El, I too always felt I was particularly sensitive and perceptive about human behavior and feelings, which led to my career. Unfortunately, I also felt that I could focus on and be helpful to others because I had my own life in check - stable, happy, solid marriage and family. I lost that trust in myself when I found out that I couldn't even see the tremendous problems under my own roof. Complete trust in H and innocence can explain it somewhat but I still feel like such a fool who operated on some deep level of denial all those years. I was winding down my practice in clinical social work before d-day, but found it impossible to continue after I became so traumatized. One has to be able to manage countertransference in the office and I didn't want to take the chance with clients that I couldn't do it - wouldn't be fair and even could be harmful. So my career as a psychotherapist ended abruptly, and I really have no interest in resuming it at this stage in my life. FYI El, since you asked, I specialized in working w/adolescents and families with a cognitive/behavioral approach. I saw couples, too, but found that work the hardest and least satisfying of all. What does that tell me now!
Yes I am impatient for this to move along. I'm approaching 60 for crying out loud (though I'm told I don't look it and even now I don't feel it) But the time we have left becomes more valuable as we have less of it. I'm furious that I have to waste so much of it on bad days, and the realization that while I think about A less than previously, I still think about it more than any other thing in my life. Stinks! I know that will change and you provided more hope in your message, El. Thanks. I do feel the love, encouragement, and hope. This is an absolute lifeline.
I am so glad you are finding comfort here in healing. As I wrote to you before, in my first response to your post, you will get a lot more responses in Open.
You said you were ready to go there so my response to you will be in Open starting a new thread with your name.
See you in Open.
El
This message has been edited by hurt on Dec 16, 2008 4:43 PM
