I am brand new to this, but want to share my story--and maybe get some help from all of you. Here's my story:
14 years ago my wife had an affair with her boss. I don't know all of the details (more on that later) but it lasted about 5 months. We had been married for 3 years at the time.
On D-Day, W broke down and said, in effect, she didn't want to have the affair and was manipulated into it. This was a Sunday nite. I told W that she had to call in sick because we were going to a lawyer the next day because of the potential legal imiplications of what had happened. She could hardly tell him she wasn't coming in to work (he happened to pick up the phone when we expected vmail). Because it was W's boss, we immediately went to a lawyer who helped us and then referred us to a counselor also. The long and short of the legal course is that we did not pursue it at W's request.
Then we went to the counselor who saw us both then asked me to leave for a few minutes. After I came back in, she said, "It was good that you weren't in here for that discussion." Friggin great, more secrets. We left that counselor and found a true professional who helped us, specifically W, figure out that her mother had given her serious boundary issues growing up. Her mother manipulated W into a person who literally put everyone before herself, regardless of what it was, apparently up to and including sex with someone else.
At this point, my rage has two targets, OM and W's mother. And, what counselor is saying all makes sense. Counselor is trying hard to keep us together and we both (without knowing better)agree that that is what we want. Wife continues to work at same place (new boss) and never works late (before did a lot) and never travels (before did some with boss). I always pick W up at work.
With counseling, we move forward. Things get better. We move out of state. Have 4 kids. But, 8 years after Dday, we move back to state and things deteriorate quickly. I start having bad thoughts, some old, some new. Like...
Self Confidence. I feel that in W's eyes I am a joke. Not good looking enough, not smart enough, not exciting enough, not well-endowed enough, not good enough in bed....everything in the book. My W repeatedly says none of it is not true, but I really don't believe a thing she says. Is it true? Quite possibly. Am I sure? Nope. I am sure, however, that I am attractive, successful and have self-worth. But, I am not sure I will ever believe she thinks so. BTW, for our children she is wonderful and honest and a terrific mom, but for me i'm not buying any of it.
Images. We only shared a few details of their encounters and my mind works overtime on images. She gets defensive (and to some degree rightfully so) when i bring it up. She does so becasue for about 3 years, i was pretty emotionally abusive to her. But, if i can't talk about it when i need to, it comes out in hurtful ways for both of us.
There are many times where i think i should leave, but won't because of the kids. There are other times where I think things are just fine. We have times where we act like teenagers and have a great life and sex life. We have other times where i simply hate her and want nothing to do with her.
I seem to be the reverse case. Our marriage recovered relatively quickly (2 yrs or so after DDay) and then got worse again at the 8 year mark. I am just lost.
A couple of questions:
1. Anybody seen or heard of an affair that was essentially a "brainwashing"? there are a few signs that that may be true. I can provide details as necessary.
2. Anybody heard of this "reverse" healing?
3. I don't want to cut and run, but I don't want to look back and feel that I wasted a huge(r) chunk of my life with someone who thinks i am a complete joke. Thoughts?
4. It feels like she intentionally tried to emasculate me: affair, no legal action, no quitting work, didn't want me near OM (i wanted to kick his a**), etc. Other than kids, why should i stay?
Sorry for the big introductory ramble. Any input is much appreciated.
1. Anybody seen or heard of an affair that was essentially a "brainwashing"? there are a few signs that that may be true. I can provide details as necessary.
I have seen the excuse used often, but cannot say that I have ever heard of a true brainwashing. I have to tell you I doubt its validity, unless your W was actually kidnapped. Certainly, in many cases, the OP was the aggressor/pursuer of the affair, but the choice still remains with the WS to move forward. For my husband this was one of the reason he could allow himself to be drawn into an affair, and abdicate responsibility. I am sure that Tom (the webmaster of the site) will have something to say on this, as his wife used this excuse too.
Keep in mind that for every WS there is a type of OP that makes them more vulnerable to an affair. We say here that the OP could have been anyone, all they need be is willing. But I would like to add on to that, the right weakness for each OP, which is a lot of different people. The reason people cheat is because of issues within themselves, in order to heal themselves and successfully heal the marriage, they need to figure this out.
2. Anybody heard of this "reverse" healing?
Cant say that I have. My guess is this is not reverse healing but healing that never really completed and was stuffed down. Now those old questions and emotions are resurfacing to be dealt with. I think that a significant part of you knows that your W was not brainwashed into having an affair. Years ago, this excuse served to help you deal with all that was going on. We all blame the OP at first because it is easier than putting it all on our spouses. But complete responsibility must go to our spouses, and they must own this, and we must see that they do in order to heal the marriage. This isnt to say that the OM has no responsibility, he does, only it isnt his fault your W crossed the line. His responsibility lies in sleeping with another mans wife, but not in making that other mans wife sleep with him. The choice was his as much as the choice was your Ws.
3. I don't want to cut and run, but I don't want to look back and feel that I wasted a huge(r) chunk of my life with someone who thinks i am a complete joke. Thoughts?
Feeling like the butt of some huge Joke is a normal way to feel after a person suffers from their spouses betrayal. This again, seems to me like an emotion that was suppressed years ago and now is demanding to be noticed and validated. If your counselor bought the brainwashed theory you need a different counselor. Find one that can help you both rehash this affair in a non-confrontational way. And one that can help your W own her choice to have an affair.
4. It feels like she intentionally tried to emasculate me: affair, no legal action, no quitting work, didn't want me near OM (i wanted to kick his a**), etc. Other than kids, why should i stay?
Again, these are common emotions for a person to feel after betrayal. If OM was in a position of authority, then this was grounds, but still your W consented instead of quiting. Why?
Most of us want to cause great bodily harm to the OP. I know I certainly did and entertained countless scenarios in my mind where I did just that. But again, this is placing too much responsibility on to the OM and removing it from your W.
Affairs do emasculate men, but I do not think that is the intent in most cases, it is simply a bi-product. I feel that there is a part of the WS that is getting back at their spouse for resentment they maybe carrying, but this is a very small aspect of what is going on in their brains at the time. Affairs are about the ego boost, a need to feel good about oneself. It is more like a drug, one that the spouse cannot supply.
And your kids are a very good reason to try and work through this again if you can and your W is willing. They are no small excuse.
Sorry for the big introductory ramble. Any input is much appreciated.
No apologies needed. That is what we are here for.
My wife also blamed the OM for her affair. In fact, for a while she considered whether it might have been a rape. It was not rape however, so she took to calling it a "manipulation". We spent several years wallowing this oxymoron.. the extramarital relationship that was a manipulation, not a rape, not an affair. I believe this explaination was not only intended to control me from thinking that she was responsible for the affair, but it was also meant to keep herself from seeing her fault in the affair. She talked to several counselors through this time, each of them patronizing her as she looked ways to be more in charge of herself, less pliable in the hands of others. One of the counselors even tried to get her to challenge me to surpress my hurt and anger (not just control it and process it), but thankfully my wife knew the situation well enough to dismiss that one.
Fortunately I had hard evidence of what transpired between my wife and the OM. They extensively used email to communicate. Even though she had deleted all of this email, I was able to recover many messages (and pieces of messages) from the computer hard disk. Unfortunately this process did not yeild an easily read sequence of messages. In my traumatic state reading them and integrating the information in my own mind was almost impossible. I wanted too much to believe that she was a victim in the affair.
However, I also could see enough evidence to know that she was fully capable of "defending" herself from the OM's advances. I could see that he never forced or intimidated her into staying involved with him or doing anything with him. There were also messages that showed her subtly promoting the affair to the OM. The conflicting ideas of the affair kept me and our marriage in much turmoil. I had deep anger spells, long periods of resentment, and I was slowing realizing this question had to be resolved, and my wife was not going to do it for me.
The first important change came when I finally decided to work on editing the email list so that the messages were in chronological order. Doing this allowed me to read the email to see the 'story' of the affair more clearly. For the first time I could see without doubt, without her able to defend herself claiming some other intent in the messages. I could see when her words were intentional, and I could see when the OM's words were intentional. I could see what he initiated and I could see what she had initiated. This started a process of her finally accepting responsiblity, of her admitting to the romantic feelings she had for the OM, and finally of her eventually giving a full confession as to not only what happened, but her own responsiblity for encouraging it to happen.
It sounds like you're on a similar path. I don't know, but it seems like your wife might be trying to keep you from exploring the affair again. It's hard to know exactly why, but I agree that your increasing detachment from the marriage is a sign that there are unresolved issues that come from the affair, then behavior that lead up to it, and even the behavior in your recovery time.
I should add that my wife also claimed to be (and is in some ways) a pliable person. She claims that experiences with sexual abuse as a young teenager and the loss of her father as a young girl left her as a "pleaser" personality. While I can agree with this assesment, I also know that she has been quite capable and willing to impress her will on others, including me, when the situation calls for it. She is not "universally" passive in this way.
Do you think that your belief that she is not happy with you as a husband is rooted in her rejection of you, not only in the affair, but in the time leading up to it and in her use of an explaination that you are less inclined to believe now that you've had time to think about it? For me, the longer I tried to accept her "manipulation" explaination, the more restless and angry I became, and the more discouraged I was in our marriage.
Again, I hope my experience is something that can help you.
HRB, what it sounds like to me is the "normal" ups and downs of marriage in the 21st century, seriously complicated and tainted by your wife's past cheating. This leads to the love/hate/ambivalent cycle you are describing.
I go through much the same thing myself--and her screwing 4 OM was many years ago, like your situation.
I was also "emasculated" (like you) by her flaunting her screwing around in my face after D Day, defending the OM, made the butt of jokes and other crap that I can't even bear to discuss anymore.
Like you, I "healed" (not really) very quickly after D-Day, thought I could just put it all behind me, and brother, was I wrong!
Things seemed more or less OK for years & then the "reverse healing" you described happened when, years later, I stumbled across a box of her letters from when she was cheating. That ripped the wound right open again. She is still unrepentant. In your case, it can just be the resurfacing of memories or issues that were never really resolved.
I cannot tell you what to do, but if you have children and a serious investment of your time in this marriage, I hope you consider doing the best you can without leaving. The investment in my time, my life, is the main reason I am still with my W. I can't bear to just say it was all a waste. I feel I would be heaping failure upon failure! So on we go, could be worse.
BB
PS--Just remember, your self esteem can remain intact. Being a victim of betrayal, even if made the brunt of a joke, does not make you any less of a man! To the contrary--by hanging in, it demonstrates your strength!
This message has been edited by BayouBlues on Mar 22, 2009 10:32 AM
Yes, I can echo all that has been said. In my case the whole truth got out very early - in grim detail also as my wife had kept diaries through her 18 year epic affair. It is grim to read that she and OM had regularly slept in our marriage bed only hours before she and I did. Grim is not the word - destructive devastation seems truer - and it was me that felt destroyed.
And yes, the self justification story that had been built up in her head to justify all this - all a delusion. If there were an insane institution and her mind could be read then this is a kind of insanity - an unreal story fabricated to cover up her own inadequacy - For me death did at times seem the only way out for me - that too.
All I can say is that, some 3.5 years after d-day I am still struggling to resolve my marriage relationship into something that may, just may, allow something more beautiful to emerge - I may be insane myself but I cannot accept that my wife is really this kind of murderous person as she has acted - Surely, somehow, in there, is a human being with beauty and love - Surely there is this in all of us - I believe.
