I honestly don't know how anyone can recover a marraige from adultery without talking about it a lot. My wife and I talked about it almost constantly. There was a period where I went without talking about it for around three months, as a reaction to her impatient reaction to comments I made. At the end of this three months I felt like there was no point in being married to a person who cared so little about me, as to never ask about my emotional state even when I was clearly unhappy and keeping my thoughts to myself.

Imagine another life event that would lead to grief, where friends and family know about that but never bother to show any notice to those feelings, even at times when you're clearly showing signs of sadness. Or suppose they showed impatience with the repetition that grief requires. How loved and cared for would you feel? The infidelity is no different, except that the "friend" in question is your spouse.

Talking about it not easy, and it's easy to hold it in when the WS shows that the converstation is not welcome. However, I think it's reasonable to point out that this recovery path is very likely to fail, especially if it leaves you feeling alone and abandoned. If the WS really wants to reconcile, they will eventually find a way to encorage you to share your struggles.

TomJ

If he is truly remorseful than he should not be getting angry at you. After several months, rather than getting frustrated with you he should realize that you get angry, he says something, and then you move on. You might point this out to him, that the last thing you need him to do is get angry. Its really not that complicated when you get upset he needs to listen, nod his head, put his arms around you and tell you everything is going to be all right. You may still be early in this enough that he needs to be ashamed and apologize. Now, two years later, I don't like to see my H feeling ashamed, but early on, I needed to see it, that he hadn't just blown it off, that his choices were embarrassing and wrong even to him.

I started reading a lot of affair books and stopped a lot of them after a few pages for the same reason. It just made me angry, reminded me or took me to those really intense places and moods. I tried to push the forgiving thing and then I finally realized that forgiveness would come when I was ready. And, its been two years and I finally felt ready to forgive him and I actually was able to verbalize it and really truly mean it from the heart. Rather than try to forgive, I just kept checking in with myself to see if I was ready to forgive. It had to be enough to know that I wanted to forgive. I said it in a very off handed way, it wasn't some big sit down thing. I wonder sometimes if he ever really heard it. But, what was most important to me was that I could say it. I'm still dealing with triggers and saddness, but those are separate issues from forgiveness.

Committing, Deciding, and Forgiving are not magic bullets of relief. They are something that you eventually arrive at over time. It is a really, really difficult concept to understand and believe, but there is no relief. You can't find it, you can't make it happen, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get rid of the pain. You just have to live with it or medicate yourself like you would with a broken bone. And, then one day you'll realize that it hurts a little less, you have more strength, and you can handle it better.

You are blessed that you know that you want to forgive. It will come with time.

I had to take a break from all the analysis, reading, and talking from time to time and just try to think about or work on something else. One thing I did for myself was to rent a room at a friend's house and stay there a few nights a week just so I could be away from it all. I also stayed at a hotel a couple of nights. It wasn't running away. It was just taking a break, getting some space, and getting grounded. I don't have kids or a newborn, just dogs and I missed them.

Its ok to avoid talking about something that is really bothering you. If it is really important, you know you won't forget it right?! Or write it down so you can talk about it later when you're not so emotionally tense about it.

My H was so sensitive to my moods and he would ask what is wrong - which was huge because he knew he was opening the door to venting. So many times I would just say "nothing", or "you know". It was a step in the right direction that he was noticing, acknowledging I had to tell him that even if it didn't make sense to him I needed to be able to ask him the same questions again, or go over something again because I forgot what he said or needed to hear him say it again. I didn't do it to make him feel bad, its just that even though it didn't make sense to him that it was really important to me. I started prefacing issues with "I know I've asked you this before" or "I think about this all the time and I can't remember if we have actually talked about it".

"I do not want to scare him into not telling me things." One way I handled this was when I finally gave him an ultimatum to show me the cell phone bills or it was over. I asked him what I should be prepared to see and listed the worst I could think of...calls to OW on my birthday, my calls but on hold or ended to answer her calls, more than one phone number being called, phone calls lasting hours, and several other options. I asked him if there was anything worse than that that I should be prepared for and he was able to say no. I told him I may still cry and be angry about it, but that I would try not to.

"My H even admitted today that he feels the same way whenever anything comes up about relationships. It does not even have to be about affairs. We can be watching a movie with a happy couple and before I know it we are both in some dark place."

We could barely watch anything for awhile. I couldn't watch romantic or wedding movies because it just mad me sad to see people getting happily married, or it was such a joke such a fantasy to be happily married. I just stayed away from it for awhile. The other day and A thing came on and he changed the channel and I said "It's ok I can handle it". A few days later he explained to me that its him who can't handle it. He doesn't like to be reminded of how stupid he was and how much pain he caused me. I just told him that when I look at it on the movies I see our situation as different from ours. Not every A is the same. But, that's been a long time coming.

"So what do we do? How do we recover from something that bothers both of us on a daily basis, that neither one of us wants to talk about? It has become the elephant in the room." You know what they say, "You the only way to eat an elephant is one small bit at a time!" I have always been a proponent for acknowledging the elephant in the room. I just started saying "Yah, I'm thinking about it, but I don't feel like talking about it right now". Or "let's work on dinner instead", or "I just need to be in this space right now, I'll be done in a little bit."

I hope some of my experiences help you get through another minute or another day.

Louise

Maybe we are at similar points in this. We may both be looking to justify staying. My wife is remorseful but has a lot of trouble dealing with it. Maybe it is shame/guilt? Maybe it is a good sign she will not go back there. (I hope) Yesterday I realized my daughter had marked OM birthday on calender on the kitchen. I removed it immediately and my wife said she would have removed it but she was afraid of questions from the kids.

I left for work and called during the day to talk. My wife couldn't talk then so we talked last night. She thought I knew it was there and I said no. I remember my daughter asking when his b-day was and my wife saying she didn't remember (she remembers everything). My wife said my daughter knew when it was and my wife said we don't need to post it. Either way once I saw it I couldn't walk past it every day and ignore it. My wife wanted to let it pass for the month so the kids won't ask questions.

In the talk last night I said I have a very fragile peace at this time and please protect me. She said she was worried what the kids would say but I told her I need the protection more. I left it as a mis communication in that she thought I knew and also didn't want the kids to ask questions. She has stated she wishes she had never met him over the months and don't think she wanted the reminders either. It ended with her crying and telling me she is trying to do everything I want and feels confused and angry because it is not working. She is trying and I hope I will be able to forgive in time. I told her there are no magic words or actions that will put this behind us. It will take time. There will be pain for both of us along the way but I do not want to exchange this pain for the pain of divorce.

I know from your other post your husband still works with the OW. This must create a terrible obstacle to you feeling safe in this relationship. Even with the OM out of the picture it is very difficult for me to feel safe at this time. It is getting better.
You mentioned your husband going out after work and she is there. Maybe he can't find a new job in this economy but he needs to protect your safety. You need to ASK him to not go out with the work crowd if she is or MAY be there. If he is remorseful he will respect your WISHES as opposed to DEMANDS. Be careful about making demands as the relationship is still fragile.


GOOD LUCK

Thank you Everyone for you helpful advice.
Reading this forum helps me to know what I am going through is normal and that at least is something, if everyone has felt this way somewhere along the trip to reconciliation, then there is hope that things will get better.
Last night I was talking to my H. We took the kids to the park that morning and while they were playing I stood there watching my H play with them. It dawned on me just then how little I felt like my H's friend.
For the longest time it was just he and I and we had friends in common. Both of us shed all the relationships we had from before we met one another save for the ones we brought with us to the common friend pool between us. Even when we moved the first time to California, my H would include me in these new friendships. When we moved here he did not. He kept his work relationships from me, but still treated them in a away that I would never guess there were more than work friendships, but I guess he would avoid hanging out with them, by lying and telling them that I would not allow him out.
I was telling him last night that I feel like this may just be something I can never get over. The more I think about it... you see when we had been married two years I had a very brief EA. I am not even sure how to call it an EA. I never complained about my H or divulged secrets about our relationship. Our talk did get inappropriate at times. I can make excuses, but it did hurt my H when he found out and that is what matters. I did what I could to repair the damage and things got better.
I feel like my H had an advantage here. He was able to read every online conversation I had with OM. He even got to confront OM and get an apology.
I guess I feel like his aggression got him the upper hand. He never doubted my remorse because when he packed a bag to leave I literally threw myself in his path to stop him.
Anyway. My H made it very clear to me that he would not accept lies in our relationship. Knowing my past behavior even before I was married, I knew this was something I needed to work on and I did. I became completely transparent to my H.
I feel like in our relationship, he raised the moral bar. After that moment he pulled my up to his moral level and told me I would have to be there with him or there would be no relationship. I felt safe knowing that I was the one who messed up and that I would be fixing myself to make things right. I trusted that knowing what I did to him and how he already felt about lying in relationships, that he would never betray me.
Now he is the one who had the A.
I feel like that moral bar has been obliterated. His A lasted way longer and involved way more lies. He insulted and allowed the OW to insult me. He cheated on me while I was pregnant and after he was caught it took catching him two more times for him to finally stop, despite how I would completely fall to pieces every time. He was so high and mighty when I was the one who messed up. I find it hard to know where to stand. I have no high ground.
I dont feel safe and like Bill's wife I know he is confused and upset that what he does do never seems to be enough or good enough. He does not know how to make me feel safe and I frankly, dont know how to let him.

Louise

Like I told my wife the other night. Time seems to be more important to me than any magic words or actions. The longer we survive the stronger I get. It has been six months of terrible emotions and confusion. I ask myself every day if i should stay. In the end some good times come and I decide to keep giving it more time. As the more time passes the pain seems to be less. I think of it every day still but I don't dwell on it all day anymore either. Improvement seems to be coming slowly. PAINFULLY slow but coming. You were the one that mentioned having trouble stepping back into the relationship. It was because of your post I mentioned I was having trouble stepping back in to our MC. He said at the time I would have to step in to make things work. It took a couple of weeks after he said that and I decided to step back in. I think it has been gradual but I am getting there. These decisions are not sudden for me but a slow movement in a good direction.

You said your husband gave you forgiveness when you needed it. I see how you are trying to compare your friendship (EA) to his affair. You can't win this one. No two are alike. Maybe yours was a friendship that was stopped before it went too far. He probably had a right to feel betrayed. If you want to fix your marriage you will have to find forgiveness eventually. It will take time. Can you make the marriage strong enough to prevent future problems? Time will tell and this process has no guarantees. Do you throw away what you have to start all over? I go out Sunday nights with the guys from work and maybe we are at the wrong bar, but I don't see a lot of promising prospects out there. I am better off trying to forgive my wife and fix my marriage. That option will be there later if things don't work out.

I don't think I'm doing the high and mighty act to my wife. I know it could have been me if the opportunity presented itself. Maybe that is how I am justifying staying. I have tried to leave a couple of times. She talked me into staying and one night I stayed at a local hotel to get away from her for a while.

You talk about your husband not inviting to be with his work crowd. My wife is the sports fan and shut me out of her baseball world. I buy her tickets and give her spending money for food etc but don't usually go to the games myself. OM was also a fan of the same team so when we traveled to New York I would buy an extra ticket and bring him the games with our family. I am getting much more interested in baseball now and am going to games with her. She seems to resent this intrusion somewhat but the alternative is she can explain to our family why I am leaving. I don't know where the balance of work/family/self time lies but all are important. We had lost the "US" time with four kids. With all of the pressure I see we were both looking for "ME" time for ourselves. Even now that we know we need us time it is hard to come by. You may have the same problem. I have told my wife we have to tell the kids no sometimes so we can fix this but she is reluctant to do so. We are going away tomorrow but we could only get one night away and are coming home Saturday afternoon for a Saturday night baseball game. I may not get to this one because all of our kids want to go and we only have 4 seats.

I think from your earlier post you had d-day in August so I would expect you to be ahead of me. Luckily(?) I have a bad (short) memory that I think will be helpful with the recovery. Women seem to remember everything. My wife said at one of the MC meetings she would be able to forgive if it had been me that had the A. It's easier said than done, especially with her memory.

I know I have these days when I want to leave too. We can always do that later. It doesn't seem like either of us is in physical danger by staying, so why force a bad situation (divorce). If we can't fix our marriages we can at least say we tried.