Unfortunately it is the nature of forums that detailed discussion of the history of what took place in Cyprus is impossible. However, if any observers of the Cyprus Problem wish to read “Love and Death in Cyprus” I would ask them to point out (apart from the fictional story of Leyla and Alexander) any part that is not fact. If they can, they are welcome to sue me.
Statements by Makarios and others are on the public record. The aim was to eliminate all Turkish Cypriots from the island - clearly stated on a number of occasions by Makarios. When many Greek Cypriots refer to their glorious history, I say this. About 500 BC there existed a number of city-states and Athens in particular there was a flowering of literature, politics and philosophy. These were Athenians and not Greeks in the sense that they belonged to a nation called Greece. Similarly Abraham Lincoln is not referred to as English because that was the language he spoke.
In the criticism I sent to Christopher Hitchens I pointed out his use of emotive language when detailing the deaths of Cypriots. He admitted that Greek Cypriots killed all the Turkish Cypriots in a number of villages but when he refers to Turks killing Greek Cypriots the word used is massacre. Now some Greek Cypriots & their supporters may not think this is important but massacre suggests an act much worse than killed. Greek speaking people in the Balkans never ever regained the heights of Athenian society. Fortunately for them, the English ‘romantic’ writers and poets brought the glory of ancient Athens to the Western World and the Greeks have been living off this since the end of the 19th century.
Words are very powerful tools in the hands of writers. We read that Alexander the Great ‘conquered’ vast lands. That is a euphemism for saying he invaded and slaughtered the inhabitants. Let me refer to one ‘incident’, Tyre, where after a seven-month siege of the island, 8,000 Tyrians were slain and 30,000 sold into slavery. What a nice man he was. Of course he was a Macedonian not a Greek. Is it possible that the children of those slaves are the Greeks of today who have no resemblance to the Greek images in statues and mosaics? I was born in Scotland with Scottish, Irish and I suspect Spanish ancestors but I am an Australian.
In a very interesting interview with a Greek journalist, Makarios said that he never told lies. So when he said in public that he ‘would rid Cyprus of the people of the hated Turkish race or the island will become a holocaust’ then we must believe that he spoke the truth.
Now, please don’t raise the subject of who is indigenous to Cyprus. The whole world is composed of migrants who have inter-married with people of different origins.
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Sarah Braithwaite (no login)
Blackley's diatribe
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March 21 2008, 12:48 AM
I am a British student at Thessaloniki University studying Archaeology and i am in contact with Greek professors and Greek students every day.
There is a lot of historical evidence to suggest that Alexander considered himself to be Greek (although many Greeks labelled Alexander and his father Phillip as 'non-Greek' because they were heavy drinkers which was frowned upon in Greek culture) but this is a subject open for scholarly debate. It certainly shouldn't be included as part of a rant in a piece about Blackley's fictional book on Cyprus! His motives in doing so are suspect to say the least!
I have to say that Harry Blackley's words above smack of racism. He describes his book in his posting, which is fine and perfectly acceptable. But then he launches a vitriolic attack on the Greeks being 'descendants of slaves' and that 'Alexander wasn't Greek'.
I do not see the connection with his description of his book on Cyprus and the attack on the Greek people.
What is he trying to prove? He seems to be propagandising anti-Greek sentiment which leads me to believe that he has an ulterior motive. Maybe he has been paid by certain parties to derogate the Greek people, who knows? I've found Greeks to be gentle and moderate in their approach to their ancestry. I haven't met a Greek who claims that he is a direct descendant of the 'mosaic pictures'. The whole region has been subject to conquests from many different cultures and there is no homogeneous 'gene pool' that is 'pure'. There have been dominant cultures in the region however, one of which is the Hellenic culture. No one has suggested otherwise, so i don't know why Blackley has decisided to attack Greeks for this reason.
(If he wants to enter into a debate about 'ancestry' then i'd be happy to offer evidence to counter his argument. Furthermore, I can offer evidence that modern Turks have been subjected to the 'Hellenic gene pool' in a more significant way than modern Greeks have been affected by the Turkish gene pool.
In fact, the people of modern day Turkey (especially in Western Turkey) have a 'Greek bloodline' since the people inhabitting Asia Minor were Ionian and therefore 'Hellenic'. When the Oghuz and Seljuk Turks swept into Asia Minor from Central Asia, the nomadic Turks number was approx. 100,000. They were outnumbered by the indigenous Hellenic population by 140-1 as there was approximately 14 million Ionians in the area which was summarily conquered by the Turks.
Following years of intermingling with the indigenous Hellenic people of Asia Minor (many of whom later converted to Islam), this significantly altered the 'gene pool' of the original Turks into one closely resembling the indigenous Hellenic population. This is the reason why Western Turks look more 'mediterranean' than their Eastern brethren who were not subject to a Hellenic 'gene pool').
However, i don't think that this subject has any connection with Blackley's book so his decision to include it in his summary of his book is totally bizarre. if he wants to debate this issue, then he shouldlet me know and i will offer evidence to support my claims.
As for his comments 'Alexander: What a nice man he was'....is Blackley a serious writer??? What is his motive in writing something as immature as this?
No one has suggested that Alexander was a 'nice man'. There is historical evidence to suggest that his conquests were indeed brutal. However, no one can deny that Alexander was a significant figure in the history of our planet and deserves our study, not childish comments based on hatred for Greeks. Whatever you believe about Alexander and the Greek people in general, i think it is totally irresponsible for someone like Blackley to launch an irrelavent and unsubstantiated attack on a group of people. He makes bigotted generalisations on a nation and it's people which are totally unjustified and unwarranted.
Blackley's vitriol against Greeks is the very thing which breeds hatred and ignorance in this world. he should stick to fiction because 'make-believe' and fantasy seems to be his forte.
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(no login)
Love & Death in Cyprus by Harry Blackley
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March 27 2008, 9:50 PM
To Sarah I appreciate that you are a student. And that you are studying archaeology. Your second paragraph is not correct.Why bring up the claim that Alexander was not a Greek because he was a heavy drinker? C'mon! Ever heard of Bacchus? I at no time mentioned Alexanander and his drinking. It is interesting that you claim that my words smack of racism. There is no more racist ethic group than Greeks. In Australia it is consirded a no no for an Australian Greek to marry a non-Greek. There is no such animal as a Greek. Alexander's army was made of a variety of natinalities, as was the Roman army. And Alexander WAS NOT a Greek. He was Macedonian. Fact. He spoke Greek because that was the most widely spoken language in that region. Greeks are the masters of propaganda. Turks are patheitic. They have no idea how to promote themselves. Every nation in the owrld is a mixture. Brits are a polyglot of Romans ( that means every ethnic goup in Europe), Greeks were ruled by the Ottoman Turks for centuries. Ever heard of fornication? As an architectural student you are probably not aware of the subtelies of the English language. Ever heard of satire? Hitler was a siginifant figure in history. Want to talk about the Germans? I am involved in many multicultutal events in Australia. We are lucky here that we are not brainwashed by such ideas that Greeks are good and Turks are bad. The facts in my novel are just that- facts. Prove me wrong! Makarios, Grivas and all the usual suspects hated Turkish Cypriots. Direct your anger to them. I just state the facts. As regards events in Cyprus 1955-1974, show me where I have lied.
You can't. I remain Yours Harry Blackley
This message has been edited by ANCB on Mar 27, 2008 11:55 PM
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jerry mullen (no login)
Re: Love & Death In Cyprus By Harry Blackley
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March 28 2008, 12:07 AM
harry if the macedonian werent greek what were they/ did they have macedonian language. why didnt they use there own language.
And why did he want to revenge the burning of athens by persia.
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Truth Seeker Extraordinaire (no login)
FAO: Harry "the lackey" Blackley
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April 25 2008, 11:54 PM
"Your second paragraph is not correct.Why bring up the claim that Alexander was not a Greek because he was a heavy drinker? C'mon! Ever heard of Bacchus?"
Bacchus was a Roman God. I think you mean Dionysus. The Gods were allowed to get drunk. It was considered vulgar to be drunk in Ancient Greek society..
"I at no time mentioned Alexanander and his drinking."
You did mention Alexander though, which was irrelevant for a synopsis of your book on Cyprus. Don't be suprised when people pull you up on your untruths.
"It is interesting that you claim that my words smack of racism. There is no more racist ethic group than Greeks. "
'Ethic' group? You mean ethnic? Do you have a reliable source for your assertion? Or do you base your views solely on generalisations and bigotry?
"In Australia it is consirded a no no for an Australian Greek to marry a non-Greek."
Parents usually prefer their offspring to marry into their own culture. Is this racist? Jews must be the most racist people on earth then. Followed by Indians, Pakistanis, Muslims etc
"There is no such animal as a Greek. "
Interesting choice of words for a supposedly respected author.
"Alexander's army was made of a variety of natinalities, as was the Roman army."
So using your logic, the British Army is not really British because it has gurkhas.
"And Alexander WAS NOT a Greek. He was Macedonian. Fact."
The Macedonian region spans three countries, one of which is Greece. It's capital Pella, birthplace of Alexander is in northern Greece. Remember, facts are not your thing, fiction is what you're good at.
"He spoke Greek because that was the most widely spoken language in that region."
Alexander spoke Greek because there was no such thing as a 'Macedonian language' only the Greek language existed. If the macedonians were a distinct race from the greeks, don't you think that they'd have their own language?
"Greeks are the masters of propaganda. Turks are patheitic. They have no idea how to promote themselves."
So, you believe to promote yourselves you have to use propaganda? The ancient scripts and evidence of ancient Greece and Alexander is there for all to see. Internationally-renowned and independent scholars have studied them and stated the facts. The facts happen to coincide with the Greek point of view (in fact, the Greek point of view was formed from expert opinion, not the other way round). Do you think that tiny Greece is able to persuade the world experts using 'propaganda'?
Your book is the master of propaganda. You haven't even decided if it is a fiction or non-fiction book. You are confused.
"Every nation in the owrld is a mixture."
I thought you said Greek are so racist that they don't intermarry? You contradict yourself many times, a feature prevalent in your book no doubt.
"Brits are a polyglot of Romans ( that means every ethnic goup in Europe)"
'Polyglot' means 'many-tongued' i.e. speaking many languages. Your sentence makes no sense at all: The Brits are many-tongued of Romans?
"Greeks were ruled by the Ottoman Turks for centuries. Ever heard of fornication?"
At the height of the Ottoman Empire, there were only 40,000 Ottomans in the whole of Greece. Most of them were servants and merchants who did not 'fornicate' with the indigenous population because it was considered taboo for Greek women to form relationships with these people (foreign enslavers). Even during 500 years of Ottoman rule, 40,000 ottoman servants and merchants would not make a serious dent to the gene pool of the 4,000,000 Greek population.
"As an architectural student you are probably not aware of the subtelies of the English language."
She satted that she is a student of archeology not architecture. Even so, why should she be unaware of the subtlelties of the English language if she is an architecture student? Again, you make no sense.
"Hitler was a siginifant figure in history. Want to talk about the Germans?"
???
"I am involved in many multicultutal events in Australia."
Have you been paid to write idiotic propaganda by the various disapora groups in Australia? I hear the diaspora 'Macedonians' as they like to be called, are quite active in paying for articles and books which support their biassed agenda. They really didn't get their money's worth with you though. Have they asked for their money back yet).
"We are lucky here that we are not brainwashed by such ideas that Greeks are good and Turks are bad."
No. You are brainwashed to believe what you're paid to believe. The money you are paid by these groups is the 'soap' for this brainwashing.
"The facts in my novel are just that- facts."
You are now claiming that there are facts in a fictional book? Your idiocy has reached new levels.
"I just state the facts. As regards events in Cyprus 1955-1974, show me where I have lied."
I have not read your book so i can't show you anything regarding what you've written in your book. I only go with the rubbish you've written on this forum, and judging only by this, you are a complete imbecile.
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GR (no login)
Why Harry isn't selling...
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May 5 2008, 1:08 PM
"Statements by Makarios and others are on the public record. The aim was to eliminate all Turkish Cypriots from the island"
Harry, it's no wonder why your book is not selling. The statement above alone is enough for anyone, who has studied the history of Cyprus from CREDIBLE SOURCES, to know that you're just propagating misinformation.
I challenge you to post a CREDIBLE LINK that proves your allegation. I hope you know what a CREDIBLE LINK is because you’ll have to forget about GC sites, TC sites, Turkish sites, Greek sites, or Armenian sites… so good luck.
Regards GR.
PS: I invite you to the Cyprus Forum to start a thread and prove your allegation.
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