I've recently moved my little Arab to a new yard, and intially he settled pretty well. Once he went out with the herd things went rather downhill - 2 mares came into season and my boy suddenly discovered a load of stalliony feelings! This led to a massive scrap over the fence with another gelding (who has to be kept separately due to being a very good escapologist).
Since then my boy has become a bit of a challenge to handle. Initally he was almost impossible on the yard, but I've done loads of very easy target sessions and he's becoming a lot better, but bringing him in is interesting. Initally he will plant and refuse to leave the herd but once we get over this he gets very anxious and rushes ahead of me, resulting in us coming down the field in lots of tiny circles.
I'm wondering whether to bring the clicker work into the field and reward him for a few nice steps beside me but worry that this will just encourage his planting and I will end up with a horse that only takes a couple of steps at a time?
I'm sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense, I'm kind of thinking aloud at you.
Would I be better keeping the CT to the yard and putting up with the leading behaviour for now? I have a feeling it will lessen as he gets a bit more confident and less anxious anyway but does anyone have any ideas for how I could help that to happen?
Hi, when you bring your horse in eventually, how is he on going out on a hack, is he still anxious or does he settle down? I wondered if it would help him to get over his inital reluctance and anxiety on leaving the herd if you could get another owner to bring their horse in at the same time. This might calm him down and allow you to click and reward this behaviour, I feel you would make progress more quickly this way. You could then return him to the herd and repeat the taking him in (with companion) until he is relaxed about leaving the herd. The move has obviously unsettled him and some horses take a long time to adjust to new surroundings and companions and Arabs are usually very excitable and highly reactive. The trouble is once he gets excited he isn't thinking and this make it very difficult to change the behaviour, by having another horse with him and hopefully calming him down he should be easier to train. This should progress to bringing him in on his own.
Sounds to me like separation anxiety? Horses are herd animals and therefore there is safety in numbers. If the horse is anxious about anything then it is unlikely to feel relaxed or safe away from the herd, and so is reluctant to leave it. CT purely for the leading in that case would be treating the symptom, not the cause, you may find you have to go back afew steps. The best thing I can reccommend you do if this is the case is consult an equine behaviourist who knows what they are at and uses positive methods to treat problems- behaviour problems are often more complex than they at first appear.
Helenx
Have you had your boy checked out to see if he could be a rig? I'm not a fan of saying that all behaviour like this is riggish as I think that in many cases it is used to cover up other underlying problems, but I guess it wouldn't harm just to make sure.
How long has he been on his new yard? I agree with Helen and wouldn't rule out seperation anxiety and possibly (although it goes hand in hand) a confidence crisis.
How is his relationship with you? Have you owned him a long time? Do you feel that he feels he can put his trust into you when he is unsure? It might be an idea to just spend some time with him (without the clicker) and just rewarding him for being with you and helping him feel that you are worthwhile being with (that is reather presumptious becasue I don't know what your relationship is like with him, but it might just be that he is having a bit of a touch time getting his head around being at the new yard). You could even do this in the field without approaching the issue of bringing him out - just spend a bit of time with him and then leave him to his grass. You could possibly do this a few times a day.
Also, I know it is hard to do sometimes but try not to worry about the possibility of a behaviour happening, if you are anxious it is likely to pass onto him too...has anyone else managed to get him in from the field without a problem?
Just some thoughts to help you on your way, hope they help
I'm sure that a lot of his behaviour stems from a lack of confidence. This is the first time he's ever been out with more than one horse, let alone young mares and I think there are an awful lot of new sensations for him to deal with!
Marie, I've only owned him seven months and he quite obviously doesn't feel able to put his trust in me fully yet. He's a lot better than he was, but he doesn't seem to see much benefit in being with me right now. I've been popping up to see him three or four times a day just to give him a scratch and sometimes a bit of apple in the field, and he does now wander over from the mares to see me.
I think I'll just work on our bond and helping him get his head round his new situation and I have a feeling the leading will resolve itself in time.
I may get him checked out to see if he is a rig too. I know it's unlikely but having caught him mounting one of the mares this afternoon, it could be a possibility.
Thanks for all the advice, I'm feeling a little more confident now!
If your horse is exhibiting true separation anxiety than the behaviour will escalate, this is why I wondered how he was being ridden away from the herd. If he is OK about this then he is unlikely to be suffering from true separation anxiety. Some breeds such as Arabs and T/B are genetically more disposed to this condition. Also horses that were reared by themselves and have had limited opportunities for socialising are more likely to suffer from separation anxiety. I agree the human/horse relationship needs to be looked at as it is important the horse trusts his handler completely. It is important the initial separations from the herd should be short and a pleasant experience. This is why initially I think bringing in another horse at the same time might help and giving a small feed or treat then turning out again will create an association that leaving the herd is going to good thing. Once the trust is buit up the companion can be dispensed with. Take things very slowly and I am sure you will have success. lots of luck Sue
agree with the above - but a few other suggestions...
May 10 2003, 4:30 PM
How long is it since you moved to the yard? If it's less than a few weeks or even months then it's still early days and things may well settle down of their own accord.
I don't think CT is really the right thing to treat this problem with. Partly because as someone said above, you are only treating the symptoms but also because you might be in danger of having the clicker become less meaningful. I'd be more inclined to use the clicker to train unrelated things eg targets, head down etc and save it for occasions when he is stress-free. That way it will help to encourage your bond and thus be more likely to get to the core of the problem. Finding a stress-free occasion may mean CT in the field (use scratches if the others are likely to mug you for treats) for a while, then build up to just outside the gate etc Of course, you can do this without the clicker too and just make the "nice bonding experiences" take place progressively further from the herd.
But it sounds as though things are improving anyway so keep doing what you're doing!
Sue, He's not being ridden at the moment - he went away to be started and came back to the new yard but I've not ridden him there yet mainly 'cos he's been so unsetled it didn't seem safe and partly 'cos he was a bit sore for a while where he scraped his leg in the first big scrap.
He does seem to settle once he's out of the field as long as Mattie doesn't go near his girl!
We had another horse in at the same time this morning and he seemed a bit calmer initally but was not at all bothered by being taken away from her or her going away.
When I got him in this evening, just for a bite of hay and apple I just ignored his behaviour when leading. Kept walking where I wanted to go, let him circle me if he needed to, and he settled much quicker.
How much leading and groundwork do you do with him? I do loads and loads of leading with my horse - all over the yard, around and over any obstacles we can find, into and out of scary places and he is now used to being lead anywhere at any time.
Originally, if I deviated from our journey from the field to the stable at the end of the day he would panic a bit - I once walked him around his field, looking for his fly fringe, and the problems I had, because we had gone away from our routine!
I don't think you can do too much leading or other associated groundwork and this may help. I now translate some of it to longlining, but not the parts where there is loads of juicy grass to distract him, because we are not yet that good at longlining, although we are improving every day.
All the leading and groundwork has increased our bonding dramatically and most of the time, he is pretty comfortable on the end of the leadrope.
I can't ride him at the moment (ongoing physical problems), but hopefully this relationship will translate into a good ridden relationship when the time comes.
