Hi everyone, I'm here again with one of my mad threads
I just wondered what your views on this are.
Increasingly I am seeing people who say their horses are happy. To me the horses are usually shut down and it got me wondering why someone could see their horse being happy in this state. I've come to the conclusion that if the person is happy then they presume the horse is happy too - therefore, when the horse acts like a robot and is shut down but he does exactly as he is told and so makes the owner happy - result "happy horse"???
So how would you describe a happy horse?
For me, I would start by saying his eyes are alive and sparkling, that when he see's you he doesn't turn away but looks inquisitively at you or even comes over to see what you have. I'd like to think that a happy horse will enjoy his work and will be enthusiastic about what he is doing...the list goes on I'd also like to think that a happy horse is a horse that is stable with or without me around.
Of course, the environment has drastic effects on whether a horse is really happy and we also run the risk of getting into trouble for assuming a horse can experience happiness (which of course I believe they do), but i think it is fascinating how people perceive their horses in differnet ways from others...i guess it all comes down to perception
Although I have noticed with one of my horses inparticular, he tends to mirror my mood, and if for any reason I am fed up he seems to get quite grumpy (although obviously I do try and leave my problems in the car so to speak).
he loves jumping!! Just because he zooms round the course at a rapid rate of knots. Does he enjoy it or is it just to get it over with?
My horse came to me with very dead eyes 2 1/2 years ago. He used to be in another world. Hardly grazed, just stood looking into space. I felt so sorry for him and had a AC reading done on his mane and tail. Result was that - he didn't feel in control of his own life and was despondent because of it. He's now part of the established herd of shetties, palled up with one in particular and they frollick around, little and large. He still occasionally stares into space but I'm hopeful that he is happier although I haven't had an AC reading since. His eyes are certainly brighter and his ears prick up and he actually canters down what I call the runway from the top part of the field to the shelter when I arrive [but that may be due to the possibility of food .
Interesting you should post this Marie. Some here will recall me describing two horses at my field as 'Robots', who hang around the gate a lot and stare into space, until I walk in, then they seem to want attention.
Well, my mother came to visit this weekend. She isn't remotely horsey, but when we got to the field she said, 'What's wrong with those horses?'
Both owners believe these horses to be happy. How I don't know given the amount of time spent with thm, yet an unhorsey person picked up on their state of mind immediately.
Am now feeling quite chuffed, as Henry could certainly survive without me, but ears are pricked when I arrive and there's nothing robotic about him! Not sure about the work though. I think he'd be happier left in the field to pop!
Hi Sue, I was wondering what AC is? Perhaps I'm being abit thick but I can't work it out! Am thinking along the lines of 'black box'healing etc, perhpas you could explain?
Hxx
p.s. Of my 3 horses that I believe are happy, they all respond to my moods in different ways:
Jenny (motherly shetland) always knows when I am sad or fed up and comes to give me lots of love and asks me to hug and scratch her.
Geri (IDxTB mare) does the opposite- if I'm not in great form she keeps well away.
Robbie (3 week old shetland foal) always wants to see me but if I feel remotely annoyed or upset he bites me and annoys me whereas when I am happy and calm he grooms me really gently..... babes have more wisdom than any of us!!!
Jenny was reared mostly unhandled till I got her as a 4 yr old in March and Geri had a pretty typical amateur showjumping upbrining till I got her- think it shows.
Hx
AC is animal communication - which on theory everyone can do - and if not you can get an animal communicator to talk to your horse and you get to ask questions.
It is very interesting!
If you want to learn more about this yourself, try reading Straight from the Horses Mouth by Amelia Kincade, I was lucky enough to go on one of her courses earlier in the year which was amazing!
The hair in the black box you mentioned is called radionics, and this allows a profile to be put together of the human/animal of the areas of dis-ease, and healing treatments can then be sent distantly.
Marie, I think you are right too may people only see what they want to see or have never been encouradged to learn how to 'read' equine behaviour correctly.
I think I know what prompted you to open this thread and I believe its an important area to highlight.
I posted this yesterday but for some odd reason it didn't post...
just so you know I get the AC now, just wasn't quick enought o work out what the initials stood for!
By the way, Emma I totally agree. Some people really truly do anthropmorphise when they look at their horses rather than empathising. The number of demos I have seen stressed and tense horses and heard other people saying 'look how much that horse enjoys its work' it makes me want to scream and tear my hair out!!! I hope that the next stage of my research will investigate this phenomenon in more detail!
Hx
Definitely agree with this, I'm also increasingly seeing shut down horses with owners who are convinced that they're really happy. I don't know whether this is because of the increase in use of NH methods or whether it's because I'm becoming more aware of what to look for (I suspect a combination of the two).
My recent example of this (which I've told you before but so what!) was when Jak was in the hospital and the vets would phone me up to say how he was doing. They always commented on how "happy" he was. I'd go to the hospital each day and see this dejected horse standing with his head down below horizontal, not eating and only perking up when he realised that his scratches slave had arrived and brought a big sack of picked grass. The vets knew he was normally turned out 24/7 so how on earth could they think he was "happy" standing tied up in a stable for 10 days? Oh yes, it was because he wasn't giving them any hassle which meant they were happy which obviously meant he must have been happy too......
The other thing I see often is when people want to be able to cuddle their horses. I don't deny that some horses do appear to enjoy being cuddled (as opposed to scratched). But normally they seem to stand and tolerate it. You don't see these horses mugging their owners for cuddles!
As for how I would describe a happy horse - I would agree with you Marie. One thing I'd add though is whether the horse is showing variable behaviours in response to the owner's arrival at the yard. Those horses who wait at the gate for hours or always come to the owner's call often seem more conditioned to me than happy, although obviously that's a sweeping generalisation. Jak will sometimes ignore me, sometimes walk towards me, sometimes trot towards me, sometimes look up take a couple of steps and then go back to munching until I get to him. I think I would worry if he were to start doing the same thing every time - it would make me wonder what I had inadvertantly trained! It doesn't matter how much I like some people but there are times when I don't want anything to do with them. So while I know it sounds anthropomorphic, I feel that horses like their space from us sometimes too and that it's healthy for the horse to be able to feel that he's not obliged to spend time with us. (Great as that feels when I've just driven 20 mins/10 miles to see him!) Obviously if this started to happen regularly then I wouldn't see it as a good thing but wonder why...
Catheirne wrote: "As for how I would describe a happy horse - I would agree with you Marie. One thing I'd add though is whether the horse is showing variable behaviours in response to the owner's arrival at the yard. "
I like that. As you know Crunchie is a whirlwind of response sometimes. I've never wanted to be the type of horse that just stood there and never did anything so Crunchie was never told off for 'playing' when tied up, in his stable or anywhere else for that matter. I would get (and still do) comments about how 'naughty' he is because he doesn't stand like a statue. I'm really glad I ignored these people!
I would hate for him to be a 'statue' - I love the personality that oozes out of him and the honesty that he shows me becuase he knows it is 'ok' to be honest and tell me if he likes or dislikes something
The horses with spirit always catch my eye when ever I am out - yet it saddens me how many people consider the horses that I love to be 'naughty, bad mannered, born evil an so on.....
Completely agree about variable behaviours. Henry pretty much does exactly as Jak, with the added behaviour of hiding in the nettles last night! He seems quite content in his current herd situation.
Branston on the other hand (for everyone else this is my old shettie) seems desperately unhappy at the moment and I'm terribly worried about him. As soon as I arrive at the field he's glued to me, holds his head in my hands and stands at the gate watching me leave. It's heartbreaking, it really is. When I move them (thinking of going next weekend, due to the fact I don't trust them at this yard to check on my ponies when I'm away) I'm hoping that he will rediscover his zest for life, as he was quite an active little sausage when it was just him and Henry. My feeling is he is being pushed from the herd by the others as an old boy. He's certainly gathering bites like they're going out of fashion. Not the peaceful retirement I had in mind...
I've got an elderly shettie who's between 30-40 and has lost a lot of condition because of his loss of teeth. I've sorted out the feeding but he spends a lot of his time in the shelter sometimes with, sometimes without the others but they accept him and don't turn him out. The poor soul who does get pushed out is my shettie mare. She's as gentle as a lamb and she's always the one on the outside of the shelter come rain or sun shine. A couple of times I've tried to behave like a horse when the big one goes for her and have chased him off, in an endeavour to tell him this is not acceptable behaviour. It seems to register for short space of time but the following day he will do it again and he isn't an aggressive horse by any stretch of the imagination. I've always been a strong advocate of letting all animals sort themselves out without interferring so this goes against the grain of my philosophy but I feel so sorry for the little mare. She seems quite content to stand on the outside looking in and she isn't alone because one or other of the other shetties will join her grazing. Do you interfere with your herd behaviour or let them get on with it?
Sorry to hear about your Shettie...how long has she been with the other horses?
I tend to leave them to it and not interfere unless it is absolutely necessary. You usually find that they sort themselves out. I have however, with a friends horse who was very nervous with everything (honestly he would jump at his own shaddow) paired him up with my own horse who will look after himself but stay clear of trouble. Becasue we paired them up at first my friends horse stayed with my horse until he was confident enough to move over to the others on his own accord. We recently moved farms and it was great to see my friends horse turn his back on Crunchie for a while and go and make friends with the other horses on his own
I'm not huge believer in creating a pair bond situation to the point that the horses becomes reliant on each other, but I do think that if it managed correctly and they do spend increasing times appart from each other, it can be beneficial.
The mare has been with me for 12 years, her son is with her, he's 11, then I had an RSPCA case who joined the herd at 6 months old and has now been with me for 3 1/2 years. Casey the big draft came to me 2 1/2 years ago so the herd is static now for some time. It seems that the males gang up on the one female. Know the picture?????
The only time I interfere is when the big 16hh bully chases him for no reason and there's no way little B can escape having old little legs! So I send him away and stand with Branston, as protective mare! Feeding wise, he's a doddle though. He's as fat as a pig right now and I'm quite glad the hot weather has killed the grass!! Interestingly when we had a shower last week he was soooo happy and seemed a but more perky. Bless him.
I'd also like to think that a happy horse is a horse that is stable with or without me around.