I've been offline for a few days,on a course about Myo-fascial Release. I've just finished day 4 of a 5 day course and still don't understand what its all about!
Anyway this isn't about my complete inability to learn, this about an incident that happened to me today with the group and wanted to share it with you as I need some advice. A lot of the group including the instructor have been on a horse handling course a few days before and although I don't know exactly what was taught it seems that basically they all now believe that to communicate with their horse they have to be the 'dominant horse' in the relationship. This immediately put me off guard but I let it go as felt I needed to respect not only the instructors views but that of the rest of the group.
As the days have gone by, the handling of these horses who have been absolute stars as far as I'm concerned.(Standing in an arena for up to 3hrs with strangers poking and prodding at them)Has gotten rougher and rougher all under the umbrella of this "horse handlers" advice. Today this went from being unacceptable to me personally to abuse with a horse being whipped with a leadrope 10-15 times. the groups reaction to this showed a total lack of respect for the horse and there were many jovial comments about how that horse won't do that again!
Needless to say I left the arena pretty quickly,mainly because I was crying and because i didn't want to explain how i felt about the treatment of this horse. From a group of people supposedly dedicated to improving the lives of horses through the use of therapy, i was disappointed by their response.
what concerns me is that these people are being actively encouraged to handle horses like this and it is a requirement of the qualification that you do this horse handling course. So there are going to be hundreds of therapists out there who think it is ok to handle your horse in this manner. I certainly wouldn't want a therapist like that treating my precious horses!
Do I let this lie and simply not attend anymore courses woth these people? Or do write to the organiser with my concerns, and hope they listen. I certainly don't think this is something that should be brought up in class, I don't think it would be very constructive. However much I want tell them what I think of their attitude!
Lucy - this is probably too late and, in any case, I'm not sure any of us can help from the outside. If it were me, I'd say what I felt as clearly and non-judgementally as I can and, to the best of my ability, make sure that my actions concurred with my views, not theirs - though I'm well aware of how hard that can be.
the wider problem, that of the concept of 'dominance' and the inevitable battles that arise from it, links into the concepts evolving on the clicker thoughts thread and earlier on 'Tao of Equus', namely that, in order to train horse - in order to be with horses, (or dogs, or people) with any integrity, we need to be clear in ourselves. Self-knowledge is the key to everything and horses respond to that, not to violence or the cod psychology, laced with an astonishing vein of sado-masochism (which is fine, but only in its own place, which isn't with other species or non-consenting adults).
This comes through in dog behaviour training and is doing a world of damage. It seems now to be infiltrating horse behaviour and will doubtless be as damaging. The best way, as far as I can see, to counteract it, is to demonstrate the difference in a relationship that is based on respect compared to one based on intimidation and the ownership of space, which is largely what the dominance arguement is about.
Two concepts mitigate against the current trend. The first is that it's only people who anthropomorphise. I genuinely don't believe that either our dogs or our horses believe us to be members of their species - they're simply not that unaware. Humans, however, frequently consider dogs and horses to be variants on children, with all the damage that implies.
I am a human, I am hard-wired in certain human directions. Dogs are pack hunters and share some similarities, but they're still carnivore quadrupeds with a quite different mind set and horses are different again. Trying to pretend that a horse believes me to be another horse and that I can mimic herd dynamics is ludicrous but even if it were possible, herd dynamic is a fluid, changeable thing and different individuals offer different things at different times. Our attempts at reductivism are neither intelligent nor useful.
Beyond that, I think the concept of 'respect' is fundamentally misunderstood in our culture, simply because we generate so little of it between and amongst ourselves. Respect is not fear, nor is it awe, admiration or projection, although all of these are mistakenly labelled as such. I've spent a lot of time trying to sort this one out and, for me, respect can best be defined as 'I trust the integrity of your intent.'
which brings us back to intent and knowing ourselves, understanding our own intent and clearing our own rubbish so that we can become clear channels for whatever it is that guides/motivates us. Without that, we descent into violence, which is what you saw yesterday and what, doubtless, a generation of (presumably?) myofasical release practitioners will go on to perpetrate, thus diminishing their own ability to heal and giving their profession a bad name.
do what you can. Adhere to your own integrity. And tell us what you found that was useful from the course.
I knwo what it's like. Especially when you're on your own, there's that feeling of being at odds with everyone else. Sometimes you are confident enough to tell everyone exactly what you think and why you think it, but other times, the unconfident gene kicks in and you're a mess when it comes to arguing your point.
Without a doubt, I would write to the organisers of this course and express your concerns and disappointment with the so-called professionalism or these instructors.
We have no right in my opinion to walk into an arena and expect a horse to see us as boss. Even us lot who love to study their beh don't spend more than a few hours a day at best with our horses. The terms 'Alpha mare', 'dominant leader' and 'boss' are all codswallop to me. Ask them to try going into a council meeting and ordering people around. They'll think that's potty and rightly so, but no more potty than approaching 'aliens' and ordering them about.
Respect is another issue, but some people believe the two (dominance and respect) are inextricably linked. IMHO not so. Respect can so easily be gained by showing the horse what is right and giving him the chance to work out the (good) consequences of his actions. Give a horse respect and he'll give it right back. In a film somewhere someone once said 'Respect breeds Respect'. Can't remember the film, but that saying was so true!
Hitting a horse with a lead rope 15 times is not telling him 'I want you to load/walk over plastic/dance the sailor's hornpipe' but simply 'Psycho human alert. Run away, run away'.
Of course you could try explaining this and the various aspects of your beliefs to them, or you could wait until they're all discussing how hard they are in a room with sprinklers. Dress appropriately and hold a lighter under the heat sensor. You get the idea...
Diane what a wicked sense of humour!!!!
Lucy I was in a similar situation afew weekends ago, although mercifully no-one was abusing horses in the way you have experienced, I had doubts about the ethics of the people who were teaching the course I was on. I decided (much against my better judgement) to question them. I ended up quite emotional and feeling abit persecuted and crazy for the stuff I was saying, but I think that even though at the time they did not see were I was coming from, the end result was effective because they certainly won't forget the issue being raised. And I feel in my heart of hearts that even if the teachers do not go away and change what they do, the others on the course definitely went home with food for thought. Even though I seriously wounded my pride etc I was left feeling that i had done the right thing and very glad too!
Once more the problem was due to a lack of education about horse learning and horse welfare. Yes we all need to keep an open mind and listen to our hearts but we still need the science and hard facts..... only when we marry the two do we produce constructive results. The teachers on my course did not have the science wrt to horse behaviour and welfare, just their own experience which they reckoned was sufficient.
Lucy, I know the course is probably over by the time you read this, but if you can, write that letter, take your time, put all the science in that you can and explain the facts as clearly as you can, then send it to everyone that was on the course as well as those that taught it. You will be able to phrase it in a way that is both positive and constructive. Do not worry about the fact that some of them might throw it in the bin.... you will still plant the seed.
Oh, and perhaps you should send a copy to whoever it was that taught them the stuff in the first place?
All the best poppet,
talk to you soon
Hxx
Hi Guys, thanks for the support it is always nice to be able to offload to people you know will understand!
I've done a bit of research on this guy and he has written a book, so i will get my grubby little hands on it and have a good read and see what exactly he is saying. That way I will be clear as to whether or not the "abuser" (sorry about all I can call them at the moment) had taken on board what was said or whether they mis-interpretted what had been taught! Either way I think the trainer was coming from a psuedo-science perspective and this is an issue that needs to be addressed with organiser. This company has a great reputation and is doing some great work. i have been involved with them for nearly 3yrs and have always felt that the courses were professionally run and contained good scientific knowledge, it would be a shame to have this reputation tarnished through ignorance and bad judgement.
What did I learn? Well apart from how not to train a horse! i found that MFR is an excellent therapy, that like all similar modalities it assists the horse in making the changes for themselves. The horse I worked on today was a star. She really got into the moment and produced some excellent releases not only physical but emotional too. Before treatment she was shut down, when walking you could literally push her over she was so weak. By the end her breathing changed, it was deeper and stronger, she was alert and looking out her stable. There was some feed in her bowl that obviously hadn't been touched, about ten minutes after we finished her treatment she walked over and ate her feed! She truly was special and I learnt alot from her. She still has a long way to go but at least she now is going in the right direction. This horse is an absolute wreck, both physically and mentally, it was nice to see her improve even if it was only a little. it made the week worthwhile!
I'm glad you learned things - sounded from your earlier post that maybe the whole thing wasn't so good.
I assume that Myofacial release is similar to Bowen or Equine touch?
Personally I would only echo what people have already said- worth writing to the organisers..
I was really struck by Emma's post on another thread about the postive approach not just being with horses but what we do throughout our whole lives (echos of Mark Rashid's latest book- as this is what he talks about struggling with).
I hope that this "horse handling" experience isn't the way that the therapists approach the rest of their work/life!
My curiosity is also overwhelming me as to who the horse handling trainer was....must be known to some of us if he (or she) has published a book....
Carol, learnt my lesson on this one from the wonderfully marvellous Helen! But it is a man, he is Canadian and his book is called Horses Don't Lie!
A little bit of research and you will find him! I wasn't on the horse handling course, so I don't how much of this is what he taught and how much has been re-interpretted!
Having read the above book (but not any other of the person in question's books) I have to say that it's difficult to believe that anyone could interpret his approach as advocating hitting horses! I know it's difficult to base your judgement on just one book, but he came across as very humane and thoughtful and I can't see him condoning the sort of abuse that was witnessed. Maybe more a case of people misinterpretting(sp)? If anyone else knows better - feel free to correct me!
Pam, I must say that I think you are right, we've had this discussion in some form or another about the trainer only being as good as the skill with which he uses his tools! My concern is that this therapist has taken what was said by this trainer and used it as a licence to beat a horse for being and this is a direct quote from the therapist "disrespectful" because he had "given her his shoulder". From my perspective this horse was highly agitated and nervous and was simply checking out the area to make sure he was safe! Not a punishable offence IMHO. Still therein lies another debate how can we truly know what any animal is thinking feeling. Not sure my little brain could cope with that one!
Hiya. I don't contribute much here, as some of you know the training I use does have -R in it. I just wanted to say, I've seen this so many times it makes me want to scream! Yes, the "NH" ways do involve some physical contact with horses (not as much as some people think maybe), but it shouldn't be a lot, it shouldn't be prolonged and you should recognise that everything the horse does is caused by something YOU have done.
I sometimes get called in to help people who have sort of started and then maybe lost their way. Maybe have just attended one course and not got the full picture (sounds a bit like the case here). Typically, the horse does something they aren't happy with, and instead of asking it to move with smallest pressure (to me that's a lift of energy), they go straight in and bop it with something, not just once, but maybe half a dozen times. I say "what did he do when you hit him the first time?" and they look at me blankly. "Well, he didn't step away". "Yes, but did he start to offer to move away?"... Reply - "??"
Do you see what I'm getting at? Also, the reason I say bop is because they don't hit the horse hard, just repeatedly. I'm not saying you should hit them hard, but I am saying that they are a bit tougher than us, and if you just keep nagging them with uncomfortable hitting they will quite likely set themselves against the pressure and take the punishment. Not a nice sight. Not fair.
I think something needs to be said about this course, if people come out of it and start treating other people's horses this way sooner or later they will end up head first in a hedge!