Hi Everyone

I just thought I would post this and see if you had any views on it.

I have the fantastic privilage of working with some magnificant horses. The horses are kept at a yard where their primary care takers are somewhat 'traditional' in their views and methods. The horses I am working with all have 'problems' with people to some extent. All these 'problems' seem to stem from the way they are handled.

I do not use CT with these horses but base my training on +R but my handling time with these horses is quite minimal in the grand scheme of things.

I have tried subtly to change a few opinions on the yard but it is like taking on the world - a massive job to try and change things so radically and I did wonder whether I am fighting a loosing battle when working with these horses in the way I do. However, over the last few weeks I have been noticing a difference in the way these horses are with me and the way they are with the others.

Do you think that horses can learn that one person uses a different method than others without making themselves vulnerable around the primary care takers?

My biggest worry is that I don't want to create more problems for these horses, but at the same time I refuse to work with them in the traditional ways of the yard. I guess it's about balance and the reason I am not using CT is because I know it would be too radical for these horses to cope with living in the environment they do.

Just to add, I school these horses and the owners know how I work (although they do think I have lost the plot sometimes!) - I am more than pleased with the progress these horses are making. Also, some of you may be wondering what the point is of training these horses the way I do when the owners are so traditional - the reason is that the owners, although traditional are open minded enough to see that what I do is different and creates a difference in the horses. By training them in this way, I hope that I can set an example to them and they will adopt at least some of the methods/principles I use. If I can do this, that will hopefully have an effect on the other employed caretakers.

Has anyone else been in this kind of situation - how have you dealt with it?

Opinions welcome

Mx

Dear Marie,
I think you might be right that the horses learn to expect one approach from you and a different one from the others. I used to share my mare Geri with my sister. I clicker trained her every day and every thing I did was based on positive reinforcement. My sister just rode her in the traditional way (although was very gentle with her, never carried a whip etc). She seemed to understand the difference without it causing her TOO many problems. However, since one year ago she became completely mine and I was the only one working and riding with her she has become a much happier horse. Now that could just be down to the consistency of care etc (although i know she was fond of my sister too!!) or it could be because of the consistency of training?
You are lucky to have this opportunity, I do believe that a little +R is better than none at all, I'm sure the horses benefit greatly from the work you do with them.
Keep up the good work
Helenxxx

I don't think you have anything to worry about either and that the horses will learn how to deal with each person. I agree that you shouldn't be using CT and encouraging them to offer behaviour but by using well-timed +R you will be teaching the horses unambiguous cues that the owners can use and the horse still respond, thereby avoiding -R or P. That has GOT to be a good thing!

I have a similar problem coming up in that I'm starting a shiatsu course in a few weeks. With any of these therapies which work on an emotional level as well as a physical level there is that little nag at the back of my mind which says you shouldn't open a horse up emotionally and leave it vulnerable . Obviously the therapies can work in the sense that they just enable the horse to cope with the situation in the here and now but then the therapy is only going to work in the short-term. As with behaviour, I can see many situations arising where it is better not to start trying to help. But it will be really interesting to see how the tutors respond to all the questions I have on the subject! They do incorporate behaviour into the course which I will either love or hate so will be interesting to see what they have to say!

Catherine

Hi Marie, I think horses are more than clever enough to realise that people have different methods and they will behave accordingly. I was recently on a yard where I was up against more than just traditionalism - the people there just didn't have a clue full stop.

You might remember me telling you all about the shettie there. I was told she could be a bit of a cow/madam etc etc She was 'prone to double barrelling' people when she didn't get what she wanted etc etc. When I asked what it is she 'wants' I was told that they didn't know!!!

I was there for two months and never had a single problem with her AT ALL!!!

Now, I'm quite new to training horses - I only actively trained her to lead. All I did was spend a little time with her, scratches etc to teach her that I was nice to be with and when bringing her in I didn't just dump her in the pen and run off for a cuppa at home. Truth is, I thought she was a smashing little mare and it broke my heart to leave her. My methods or lack of them (which I think was the secret to my success and their failure!) passed over their heads completely. They just changed how they described her, from the above to a 'sweetheart'. So, you must be doing something pretty special to open these people's minds. Keep it up and show by example what can be achieved. You're biggest reward will be when they follow your example in their ways of handling their horses, if they haven't already.