Hi,

We seem to have stumbled on our first 'problem' already!

Polly has always been very food-orientated but since starting CT she has become very aggressive and defensive around food. At the moment this aggression is limited to lunging at and threatening to kick our little welshie (who, it has to be said, doesn't let this put her off!). This is partly my fault as I accidentally let her see my food bag before I was ready to start the session, but she seems to feel the need to protect her haynet even thought they have one each and more often than not, end up sharing anyway.

My concern is how to react if this aggression is turned towards me. At the moment I am carrying out our CT sessions over the paddock gate (with our little welshie tied up with a haynet) as this seems the safest way. However, she obviously thinks that I'm too slow as she kicks the gate and scrapes the ground. My worry is that when, eventually, I need to be in the field with her (with headcollar & leadrope to begin with) to progress with the training, she may become dangerous. She is a big cob who knows her strength.

So my question is, how do I nip this in the bud and cope with the behaviour should it arise.

All thoughts very welcome!

Nikki

Hi Nikki,
Just a few thoughts, perhaps you need to check your timing? The reward needs to be within 10 secs of the click, so that she can pair the two together. Another consideration is, is she calm? You can teach this by getting her to touch something on the ground. It sounds as though you are doing a grand job. (Very wise to start behind a barrier!) If you teach her to touch the end of a stick, this will give you a slightly larger 'safety' zone. What should happen as time goes on, she learns the rules and realises that rewards only come when she performs correctly.

Good luck, your cob sounds like she is great fun!

Lucy.

Hi Nikki

I'm no expert (you might be better getting some help from Ben to get you started), but my initial thoughts are: (a) build a training pen (tape and plastic push-in posts is an easy way of doing it) so that your little welshie is not at risk (and you won't be distracted by being concerned for the welshie), and (b) what are you training? It might be good to start with rewarding her for standing still and calm, rather than any targetting. You could split the pen in half with more tape and posts so that you can still stand safely in a separate part from Polly until she's got the idea.

J

Hi Nikki,

There are some really useful tips for combatting aggression in the "is size important" thread pinned at the top of the forum and I think there may be another thread of specific use for this situation - I'll see if I can find it for you .

I experienced aggression initially with Jack - which wasn't surprising as he was reknowned for being generous with his teeth prior to starting CT - and I started to work towards reducing the aggression by cutting out the targetting and clicking for a "nice face". I ignored any remotely aggressive behaviour - it didn't take long for Jack to twig what made me click! Targetting in the first instance didn't work particularly well mainly because I was confusing Jack by being slow to click and treat, and by C/T for a really simple behaviour like "any nice facial expression", I wasn't having to juggle a clicker, treats AND a target, so I could C/T at quite a high frequency, as suggested by CatherineB. This worked extremely well and toned down the motivation a little to a workable level (he is tooo food-motivated at times!)

What was recommended to me was that I practised on speed of clicking for what I wanted and then treating instantly as well at first. Now, Jack will wait a little longer for his treat, but because he understands the click marks the fact he is going to get a reward, he isn't anxious if the dispenser is a little slower! Before, as he is/was? such a foodie, delaying a treat albeit accidentally, would confuse and annoy him and he would snatch at the treat, which was at the best frightening and at the worst quite dangerous.

Hope this has helped

M x

Thank you! Some great ideas there.

We had another CT session today and she was smashing! I changed the 'target' to the end of a whip which was much better as I didn't need to stand right next to her. I even went in the field with her to see if I could lower the target towards the ground. She was very responsive and backed out of my space if asked. She also accepted without argument when the 'game' was over as I held up my hands, said 'All gone' and put my equipment away.

I really like the idea of a pen. Its always useful to have for lots of things and I can see it really working for the CT sessions.

I'm confident that my timing of the reward is ok (typically 2/3 seconds), it was more that Polly was so eager that she was pouncing on the target without waiting for me to hold it up and if she thought I was being too slow she became frustrated. However, we didn't seem to have that problem today.

I'm going to have a think about how I can use CT to encourage her to stand quietly, but I want to make sure that she fully understands what we are doing first.

Can I ask how often other people have CT sessions? My feeling is that every couple of days would be best with Polly so that she doesn't anticipate it and get herself het up!

Incidentally, it'll probably come as no surprise that my little welshie is making very fast progress and loves it! She's got a very quick brain for a little'un.

Thanks again for all your help.

Nikki

Glad to hear it sounds as though it's being resolved. I also wondered about whether timing might be an issue, but I was thinking more of when you get the click in rather than how soon after the click you give the treat. You can practice timing by CT'ing your kids to carry out simple tasks (eg pick up a book, turn a light on etc) just by using clicks - a bit like "hot" and "cold" except you only use the "hot". You can also try bouncing a tennis ball and trying to get the click simultaneous with the maximum height of the ball.

I also wondered if there was the potential for confusion if you are CT'ing two different horses. Maybe it would help make things clearer if you had a different treat bag for each horse. Then Polly will know when it is her turn and not become possesive.

Regarding letting her see the treat bag too early - I use a bum-bag type thing and even if we're working for scratches I'll put it on to indicate "start of session". Sometimes Jak will see it and nibble it before I put it on but I try to be strict about not responding until I'm actually wearing it.

And as for the what if she directs the aggression towards you. Yup, I'd read Meera's thread (in the Useful threads section) and the other one listed next to it.

Catherine