Hi
Jake is going for x-rays on Wednesday and I never travel with him so am a bit worried about the loading. He travelled in a horse-box literally 5 minutes down the road in September (too big a road to hack down) when I moved yards and at first there was no way he was going in, backing, mini-rears etc. and looking stressed. But then I got out his clicker and target and he marched straight in (2 horse box). But he sweated up a hell of a lot and I'm worried about the travelling on Wednesday.

Firstly, don't worry, I do know that CT isn't a quick fix to problems like loading. However, I obviously want to do anything I can to make it less stressful for him. Bearing in mind the whole time he is there will be stressful, as will loading to come back.

I don't have any sort of box or trailer to practise with. My vet suggested walking him over polythene in the school to get used to walking on funny surfaces (I should have done this before anyway just as an obstacle course but never got round to it). So I can try that. Any other ideas? Both for the loading thing and for reducing stress?

I'm transporting him with someone who is experienced at getting all sorts of horses into boxes but am worried incase such methods are harsh. I guess I should just use PR to really praise every step or muscle move in the right direction and take it slowly.

I could get out the clicker and target, or just the clicker to emphasise moves in the right direction, but I'm not sure about using it in potentially frightening situations, could I do more harm than good and make him end up hating the clicker?!

I do use it routinely on hacks to get past scarey objects (C/T when he moves a foot forward) and it works really well, and solved puddle problems the same way. I guess those were potentially frightening things but as soon as he hears the click he knows its OK and usually marches past. But is something like loading just too stressful and I should leave the clicker well alone?

Any ideas welcome, got to do something before Wednesday....

Suz

i would use the clicker and a target to get him into the lorry u obviousely appreciate that it's not a quick fix but u need to load him and quiete frankly useing clicker training is going to be the most humane way to do it.
i would go with the vet on the tarpaline walking to get him used to funny surfaces also put a sheet over him so he has to walk under it but not touching him at first. then lower it so it brushes his ears ect and he's still ok. then put the tarpaline on the ground as well so he's walking over one piece and under another. if it hangs down at the edges this should help as well [light difference habitation]. also get him used to walking up banks [if u have any] as it's often the ramp that upsets then. lastly don't let the transporter do anything your unhappy with.

I would echo horseguys post, as you have absolutely no time to prepare properly you need to do what you can with the facilities you have. Walking over strange sufaces into small, dark places etc...
Also stand firm on how you want your horse to be loaded if you have problems. You are paying for this transport so don't let them bully you into an action you are not comfortable with!
Good luck! I am sure he will be fine.

Hi Suzanne

I read your other saddle post, and my thoughts are with you - at least your horse has you and you have identified a problem and done as much as you can to make things better.

regarding the loading, you sound like you have the formulation of a plan and will be doing some interim work to make it as stress free as possible.

My suggestions are about the actual travelling. I've found with my experiences that giving the horse lots of room helps with the sweating up and also, I've never travelled with a travel rug on on and I open every single window in the box or trailer that I can. Would it be possible to ask your transport person to take the partition out, so your horse could have some more room? Its just a thought.

I'm doing a project at the moment researching ways in which we can minimise the stress of travelling to horses and if you're interested will let you have my results when I've finished (about May time).

Anyway good luck to you both and I hope I'm not "teaching you to suck eggs".

Hi Suzanne

I thought I would post on your thread becasue I experienced a similar problem last year with my horse and although I'm not in the habit of giving advice out becasue every situation is different you may find something helpful from what I experienced.

My horse had to be taken to hospital with a suspected fractured pelvis. He had been wary of loading for a long time, we spent hours practicing loading with the clicker and all was going fantastically well until one day when he got caught up on the way home from a friends yard. He pulled back out of the trailer but was trapped causing his injury.

We had to get him to hospital to x-ray his pelvis. We had to wait for a week before the vet gave the all clear for him to be able to cope with the journey. When the all clear was given, I was told that under no circumstances should loading him be stressful, he should not pull back and definately not rear. Given the circumstances of the accident this seemed like an impossible task.

I was fortunate enough to have my own transport and I was adamant that although it would be hard I was going to travel him to the hospital myself. My vet suggested that I had my horse sedated for the journey but I didn't feel happy about it becasue I wanted him to be as aware of himself and as steady on his feet as he could be to get there in the least stressful way.

With the support of some amazing friends I took a chance on loading him with the clicker, even though I knew that it was likely the clicker may result in becoming devalued. On the day, I got up at the crack of dawn and gave myself as much time as I could to get him in the trailer without stress - if he wouldn't go in, I would have to look at other alternitives but the most important thing was that my horse was safe.

I went with my gut feeling when it came to travelling him, I put loads of shavings in the trailer with bankings to try and help Crunch balance, I took the partition out of the trailer and bought a full breast bar which I covered in a quilt for extra padding. I gave crunch rescue remidy to help keep him calm (although I think it was more one drop for Crunch, twenty odd for marie!) and we planned the journey so that we could stop quite frequently to check on him. I also travelled with my friend who is a vet nurse and could get help quickly and give immediate support if we needed it.

It is probably one of the toughest things I have ever done, but we got through it by removing as much of the pressure on the day as we could do.

I think probably one of the hardest thing to cope with, was myself. It was a real struggle to keep thinking positive and keep calm to help Crunchie on the day and I think if I'd have cracked on the day, we'd have never even left the yard.

Thankfully, Crunchie didn't have a fracture and so all was well. But what I'm trying to say is (in a very long winded way) be prepared, give yourself plenty of time on the day, remember that your horse is the most important thing on the day - don't let the driver or anyone else tell you otherwise, and keep thinking positive.

I feel like it is just about the right time to start to introduce the trailer to Crunchie again now, I know it's going to be hard for us both to rid the ghosts of the accident and the ordeal of travelling to the hospital, but we have all the time in the world and if he never settles with loading again (which I'm sure won't be the case), the trailer can always be used as an additional tack room

Good luck on the day and remember to keep focussing on being positive.

Mx

Hi Suzanne.
Oh I feel for you I really do.I had to take my Mare to Liverpool vet hospital recently and whilst I have been doing alot of trailer practice with her I thought she may be sticky coming home.Luckily for me I had my own trailer.The hardest thing I think in your situation is that you are hiring someone else to take her.In my limited experience because they do this day in day out it can often go one of two ways.Either your horse will pick up on their vibes of ' of course she's going to load' and she ( sorry if it's a male can't look back and see) will walk straight in or if she does hesitate they will get impatient and try to hurry her on cause they think they know best!
My advice is if you could find a friend rather than a proffesional who could take her it would ease the worry of 'come on it's taking to much time'.If thats impossible could you get a freind who is horsey and has the same beliefs of training as you do to help you.Even if they do nothing I always find it much easier to stay calm and not sucumb ( sp?) to any bulling if I have someone else there who's on my side and they can back you up should it become necessary.
Stay calm , think before hand about your shaping plan , what you are and aren't prepared to do and most of all stay positive and believe with every cell of your body she is going to go in and everything will be under control.
Good luck
RAch

Thank you for all your replies, and for taking the time to reassure me.
I'm now worrying about the snow complicating things further...
Anyway, this weekend I went out and bought lots of polythene, huge sheets of bubble wrap, I sellotaped lots of carrier bags together and found an old shower curtain. I laid them in the school and asked him to follow his target over them, he was brilliant (unsure at first but not hugely). Then I added poles in the middle of the 'funny surfaces' to make him concentrate a bit more and he was still very good. I also put bits of jumps either side to make it a little more like a corridor. I did this Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning. Yesterday afternoon I did a normal shaping session to remind him that clickers are fun and I'm now feeling a little more positive. Still nervous though! I think he trusts me a bit more now, even though my simulations aren't really like a trailer I think it will help with the 'following me anywhere' aspect of it.
Tonight I'm hoping to enlist others to help with holding a sheet up so he has to go underneath one too.

So, he'll sweat up during the journey. Do I therefore not rug him but have a sweat rug ready for when we get there or what? I really don't know about this sort of thing as I never travel horses anywhere. I am borrowing some travelling boots from a friend. Someone said they'd bandage his tail for me, is that necessary, do tails really get caught in things during travelling? Its amazing how much I can know about some aspects of horses and how little about others!

Tnanks again for all your advice, I'll let you know how it all has gone wednesday afternoon.

Hi Suzanne

Personally, if you know he sweats up I would travel him without his rug (even if he is clipped) and then when you get to the other end, I usually walk round for 10/15 minutes (even if they haven't sweated, just to let them stretch a bit) without the rug and then when you stop to put him in the stable, or whatever facilities they have there, I would usually put the rug on then.

Also, I always bandage legs with gamgee and good soft travel bandages, its just that travel boots have a tendancy to be "kicked off". Or if your horse moves about quite abit they can fall down and I've seen a couple of horses panic whilst in the box/trailer when this happens as they are so unsure of whats going on round their feet. Of course, if you've an older horse who's quite "au fait" with the travelling thing then usually this doesn't bother them. So if you bandage the legs, make sure that the gamgee & bandage goes round the fetlock joint on all legs, the elbows and knees will probably be exposed but its the fetlock joints which need protetcting most from their own hooves.

I do have a tail bandage and have now bought a neoprene tail guard, I do use it, as the tail can be rubbed whilst travelling and you can end up with a bald tail and sore horse!! The yard owners daughter "forgot" to put her tail bandage on and travelled him home from pony club and his tail was actually bleeding by the time she got him home (ouchh)!! She didn't make that mistake again.

Again, though if you bandage the tail make sure its very secure (not too tight though) and try to get as high up on the tail as possible to begin the bandage, try to get the bandage pressure as even as possible to avoid slippage and it will also make it more comfortable for your horse.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on, you've been very creative with your bubble wrap and various obstacles to get him used to scary things, great tips and I shall be using some of them also in the future.

Have you though about (only if can) making a straw tunnel. Say start off with 5 bales of straw each side spaced about 7 feet apart and then walk him through that tunnel, then put a bale on top of each of the original bales, eventually building up to two high straw walls to walk him through. Of course you'd need lots of straw bales , and lots of energy lugging them about. I've tried this with a horse who was frightend of going through gateways, stable doors, trailers, we just broke it down into smaller steps and got her used to being in a pretend tunnel, when she relaxed in the pretend tunnel, I gave a a couple of mouthfulls of feed etc., to get a good "association". It took a while though over a few weeks to build up the tunnel, but she loaded great on the day she needed to go on her journey.

Sorry I haven't had a chance to add to this thread but everything I've would have said has already been mentioned. Sounds like you're doing everything right and I hope it all goes really well tomorrow.

There is always the danger of devaluing the clicker and I think it's worth thinking about. But in a one-off situation like this I don't think it would be a problem.

Thinking of you and hope both the X-rays and travelling are ok

Catherine xx

Well, this morning he loaded really well, just followed his target right on up (after some cheeky trying to stretch for it but not move his feet!). When the lorry got there his reaction was totally different to how he reacted to it last time (very worried last time). This time he viewed it as an object of curiosity!! I think all my work with bubble wrap,polythene and polystyrene packaging from our new diswasher really helped him deal with 'new things'.

Did the xrays, then the vets looked at them and said they'd worked clearly and he doesnt have kissing spines (horaah). No need for a bone scan cos the xray was clear. Then they felt his back again and under sedation he was a lot less tense than before, and didnt just think very worried thoughts about having his back felt...and they could feel a tense area etc, that is probably the problem. So...vet thinks physio should sort it!! Vet says thinks we caught it before too much psychological stuff comes into it. I asked if I was a bit hypochondriac-like wrt Jake and shoudl I just have seen what happened if I left it and she said that was right to call her out and that the reactions she was getting when she was feeling his back when she came out were not to be sneezed at (or something along those lines).

He's got to be quietly lunged and encouraged to stretch a lot until the physio comes (hopefully within a week) and then probably physioed etc for maybe two to three sessions, then can introduce saddle again (vet will be there when I do it so see his reaction, am claiming for the xray etc so might as well get the most out of the insurance company as I can before they exclude it next year). So she says three weeks off work and in the fourth week she'll come out for the saddle reintroduction.

So...good news compared with what it could have been.

Was really funny when the sedative was wearing off in the xray room, he kept touching things in there and then looking at me as if to say 'do i get a treat for that?'. He did sweat up on the journey but generally seemed to cope with it all very well and I think occassional 'targetting' helped him to think of it all as one big game.

Thanks for all your replies, am feeling very relieved!!

What lovely news onwards and upwards

Whoo Hoo! Well done! So glad its easy to sort.

Oh, well done to both of you. I was thinking about you yesterday when it was blizzard conditions here and hoping it wasn't the same for you!!

Just out of interst your comment of him coming round from the sedative and looking round for something to target, got me thinking. I've just started the beginnings of CT with Pie and of course taught first that he needs to look away for the click and treat (so that he want mug me for food), we've only done any CT in the stable as am waiting for my friend to visit and find out much more before going any further. But, he now everytime I enter the stable, looks away and steps back?, to see if we're going to do CT, very powerful really that I thought. Anwyay before I do any damage will be getting some lessons first.

Alexis: Totally off topic but how do you do the smiley faces?

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Catherine

Excellent news - really glad to hear it

Catherine x

That's great news Suzanne