Hi there, I know this is abit away from horse behaviour but I wondered if anyone here knew the answer to this?
I (think I) know there are 3 important things in towing- 1. the bhp of the vehicle you are towing with, 2. the kerb weight and towing capacity of the vehicle you are towing with and 3. the weight of the loaded trailer.
I currently have an Ifor williams standard 2 horse trailer. I drive a Daihatsu fourtrak 2.8 TDX. This means I currently have no problem towing at all. However I am thinking of changing to something a little more economical as I am now doing alot more regular driving and less actual towing. I've been told by a number of people that a Volkswagen Passat (probably around 100/ 110 bhp, 1.9 or 2.0 TD) would be up to the job. SInce I used to drive a Volkswagen I'd be very happy to change to this, knowing how sturdy and heavy they are. However, what are the figures that I need to know to check that this would be legal?!
I know there has been talk of making 4WD a necessity for towing horse trailers but this has not been made legal yet so I don't need to worry about that.
Can anyone help? Or atleast point me in the right direction?!!
Thanks!
Helen

Ok, I've just been cancelled from my last call so now have five mins. Everybody sitting comforatably? Then I'll begin:


DRIVING LICENCE REQUIREMENTS

Anyone who passed their test BEFORE 01-Jan-1997:

• Can tow a horse trailer
• Can drive a 3.5 tonne horsebox
• Can drive a horsebox UPTO 7.5 tonnes

None of the above require the driver to take a separate test or to pass a medical. It’s called “Grandfathers Rights” . It is strongly recommended, however, that if you are not used to towing or driving a large horsebox that you seek some form or training, even though there is no need to take a test.


Anyone who passed their test AFTER 01-Jan-1997:

• Can drive a horsebox UPTO 3.5 tonnes maximum gross weight (1)
• CANNOT tow a horse trailer without taking a separate test
• CANNOT drive a 7.5 tonne horsebox without taking a medical and a separate test

(1) The figure of 3.5 tonnes MGW includes the weight of the vehicle, the horse, the passengers, the driver, the fuel, the hay and water etc etc. It is the MAXIMUM that the vehicle can weigh WHEN LADEN.


TOWING AND THE LAW

At present, in the UK, the vehicle you use to tow and the trailer and load you tow with MUST NOT exceed the Maximum Train Weight for the vehicle. This weight can be found either in the manufacturers handbook, or on the chassis plate. In addition, the weight of the trailer and load MUST NOT exceed the manufacturers recommendations.

For example, an SWB Isuzu Trooper has a Max Gross Weight (eg NOT towing) of 2600 kgs. It has a Max Train Weight (eg WITH trailer and load etc) of 5900kgs. Isuzu say that you should not tow a trailer and load ANY HEAVIER than 3300kgs. Therefore, this vehicle can comfortably tow ANY horse trailer and two horses and be safely within its weight limits.

The spanner in the works is EU legislation. This states that the towing vehicle MUST be capable of towing the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass eg how much it and its contents can jointly weigh) of any trailer it tows. For example, an IW HB510R has a MAM of 2584kgs. Obviously something like the Trooper is more than capable of towing that, but something like a Ford Mondeo is NOT. The new Mondeos are forbidden by Ford to tow any trailer and load heavier than 1500 – 1800 kgs depending on model. And in any case, the Train weight on something like a Mondeo is not that brilliant to start with.

It is a debatable point as to whether the EU legislation is actually being enforced in the UK. However, if you are stopped by the police some distance from home and prohibited from continuing your journey on safety grounds, you could be in a bit of bother! Not only will you be stuck far from home with neddy in the back, but you will also be reported for any offences disclosed in relation to the weights of your vehicle, and for anything else such as Using a Vehicle in A Dangerous Condition. Should you continue to drive after you have been warned, you will run the risk of being prosecuted for Dangerous Driving.

TAKING PAYMENT FOR GIVING HORSES A LIFT

Is illegal, unless you have an Operators Licence. It’s called using a vehicle ‘for hire and reward’. This applies to both horseboxes and trailers. If you have an accident whilst transporting someone elses horses for payment (be it money, fuel, or anything that can constitute ‘payment’) then you will almost certainly have no insurance cover, as you are using the vehicle against the terms of your insurance. If you are using a 7.5 tonne horsebox and giving lifts for payment, you not only need an ‘O’ licence, but you are also then subject to tachograph regulations, which private users are currently exempt from.


TOWING AND THE 85% TEST

Please understand that this is a rule of thumb. It has NO legal standing whatsoever, and mostly serves just to confuse people.

Hi Helen

Wouldn't argue with anything written above.

When I was looking for a towing car I spent ages looking at the different specs. It was amazing how many people don't realise that they are breaking the law when they are towing by having the wrong car.

At the time there where very few car/4WD that would be capable of towing. I have a Terrano II but I don't find it a cheap car to drive. fuel costs me a fortune and so do repairs but I wouldn't be wthout a 4WD.

I do see cars towing trailers on motorways but I'm not sure that I would feel safe if the trailer started snaking or the horses moving - I could be wrong but I think it would feel quite exagerated in a lower car. Also, it depends on where you are towing but I could never get away without having 4WD because I would just be stuck all the time...

Not sure if it's helpful...good luck in your search

If I was to give any advice ask the car manufacturers to give you written confirmation that the car is ok to tow (not the dealer!). Also, find someone who does tow with the car you are looking at to see what they say.

Mx

Hi Helen,

I had a Passat 1.9TDi for three years (until three months ago), and overall it was by far the best vehicle I've ever owned. It was a 1.9 litre diesel (130bhp) and could tow up to 1.6 tonnes. I towed a lightweight horse trailer with two horses in, whose total weight was 1.5 tonnes, and the car behaved perfectly!

Without anything on tow, the car would do 60mpg on a long journey and averaged 42mpg on local journeys. It's performance was exceptional - like driving a motorbike.

It never broke down, never failed to start, never rattled or squeaked.

If there's anything I can help you with, just ask.

Best wishes, Peter

Helen - I think this is a minefield! If you like I will ask Callum (he is a policeman) and try to clarify the law. I have been told many different things but have also seen some horrific accidents where the trailer has taken control of the car. IMHO I would not attempt to tow a horsebox with a car - they are just not heavy enough. The Ifor williams is a fairly heavy trailer unloaded, add the weight of a horse or two and you will end up being heavier than the car.
Where we live there is a weighbridge where the police often pull in lorries and trailers - you would be surprised how many horseboxes are overweight.
Jan

Alexis, wow!! Am impressed.
For all you concerned people out there, I am interested only in what is legal! ie. can a passat legally tow the weight I would need it to? As in the MAM etc. So I will now be doing some sums to see. Peter, I agree, having driven a couple of different Golfs with similar mpg to the Passat, as a car you just can't touch them in my opinion! I know a number of people that tow with Passats similar to yours. THey all say they have never had a problem, one girl regularly tows 2 massive horses. I would generally only be towing one horse and sometimes one (very small indeed) pony. However, I want to be sure that legally the vehicle is up to the job, which was why I was asking what figures it was I needed to check out- because my Fourtrak was more than up to it I never had to look all this up before. If it turns out that a Passat wouldn't legally do it then I will just hang on to the Fourtrak- at group 8 insurance and 30 mpg it is by far the cheapest and most reliable 4WD to run!
Thanks for all the advice- I'll let you know how I get on.
Helen

Helen I cannot take the credit as I say it was stolen from Saddle Up from a post ny Helen E who I suspect works in a police force.

Alexis

I have owned a few cars since getting my trailer, so I have had both "normal" cars and 4WD.

I had a Saab 900 (a hatchback, 2 litre petrol engine), which towed fine. Then I got a BMW estate it was a 520i (2 litre engine) and I never had any problems towing the trailer and two horses in it. Then I got a Subaru Legacy estate, a 2.5 litre AWD with a lot more towing capacity on paper, but although it always towed OK and even got us out of mud a couple of times, I sometimes felt on the motorways that it swayed a bit, and I could not go over 60 mph.

The I went silly and got myself a Ford Explorer, one of the biggest 4x4s you can buy - it was LOVELY to drive and tow, but the only problem was you need to tow a petrol station with you as well!! The 4 litre engine was thirsty - there was no difference whether you had a trailer in tow or not, it still was ridiculous.

Eventually, I got rid of it and exchanged it to an old Isuzu Trooper, a 3.1 diesel and I think I have finally found "my car". I get about 40 mpg when towing and 50 mpg with normal driving, not bad for a big 4x4.

Following all this car changing, I think I now prefer to tow with a big 4x4, as doing it with a small "normal" car always made me think am I in control or not. If you want to opt for a smaller car, I would recommend the heaviest diesel you can find - the engine size does not always mean the most, as was the case with my Subaru! There are a lot of older Troopers etc. around for not that much money, just do your homework and check the diesel consumption!

Hi Helen

I was struggling to remember why it took me so long to select a car for towing and I remembered last night. I remember being told that engine size is important but so is the weight of the car and I think brakeing power. Apparently (and don't quote me by this) but some cars may be able to tow with the engine size but when it comes to going down hill they are too light and don't have sufficient brake power which can result in the trailer taking control. I must admit that even in my 4x4 I have sometimes felt like the trailer is pushing me down hill especially if it is a steep hill and I have two horses in or I am on the motorway.

I'm not sure if the towing capacity takes this into consideration or not, but just thought I would share it with you

Mx

Thanks Marie, this is the bhp stuff I was talking about earlier and also the kerb weight of the vehicle!
I've never felt like that in my Fourtrak... perhaps you should change to one of those!! Much better fuel consumption than a Terrano (my friend drives a terrano) and also only group 8 insurance..... although a bit basic inside!
Hey, I've nearly convinced myself to keep my Fourtrak now!!
Helenx

Hi Helen
Most of it is my head (i've heard so many scare stories of trailers overtaking the towing car on hills that I'm super aware of it!)...I think it depends on the spead you are going on a hill. I always make sure I go very slow down hill just in case. Think my Terrano would be heavier than a fourtrack to be honest.

You are right about the fuel though!