Usually I have to work systematically to teach Mara to do things...
Sometimes- as in the last 24 hrs she learns on the basis of one exposure.. and in this case not a good one.
She hates wind and rain, and last night it was bucketing down and thundering so she was very pleased to come in. But the yard was running in water.
She started to eat her tea, and I went to find something and inadvertantly fell over a trailer making a huge crashing noise.. and Mara panicked and slipped on the wet yard and fell over. She was in a real panic...
Poor girl. By the time I got to her she was stood up again, but every time I went near her - particularly behind her, she cringed, tucked her tail in and shook.. Got out the treats and did some clicker training, but it still took me me half an hour to be able to take her rug off and get her a little more accepting and eating her tea.. In retrospect she was still a bit anxious about me around her....
So far so good, but when I went down this morning she seemed OK, but when I put her rug on she was obviously not happy, and when I fastened up the back she shot forward and fell over again... My Fault.. hadn't quite realised how traumatised she was by the first episode.
I feel TERRIBLE! I have had her for nearly 5 years and she's been fine about rugging and handling (and has never fallen over in the yard, let alone 2x in 24 hours!) - normally loves being touched all over, having her teats cleaned (sad person I know!)tail rubbed etc, but obviously whatever happened last night she thinks is something to do with me punishing her...
after the second falling over, she went rigid and shook with anxiety when I went round the back of her.. and even when she seemed settled, she went into a panic again when I brought out the mucking out tools... can't quite work out why this should have worried her but it did. Felt like crying....
grrr... seems like I have a rescue job here. I feel I probably have misread her and didnt realise quite how traumatised she was from the first episode.. and now its worse..
Last year I took Robin to a Deb Bennett clinic in Devon and he fell over in the trailer (my fault) so I can understand and truly sympathise with how guilty you feel - I still haven't recovered from the experience and the guilt and frustration it caused me.
But Robin has!
I gave him lots of scratches, rubs and strokes and spent lots of time just hanging out with him, rather than trying to do anything clever. I don't think horses really need you to do much - if you're around them, they understand and appreciate, but don't necessarily show it.
Anyway, at least in your case, it doesn't seem like there's any reason to feel guilty, but maybe some mutual grooming would be good. (With Mara, I mean - or perhaps also with another person of your choice!).
Are you sure there's nothing wrong with her? It's quite unusual for a horse to fall over just because they are startled.
No I don't think there is anything wrong with her..she panicked and slipped on the very wet and greasy yard. And then being worried she did it again,,sort of scrambling quickly. She was tied up at the time, which I think made matters worse. Despite what many people say, I have found that having her barefoot does not have much effect on slippyness - Her feet get incredibly hard and seem to slip just as much as in shoes.
She's a horse that has a sort of "long memory".. if one thing phases her, then it takes me weeks to work with her to sort out the problem, And in this case it is the memory of having slipped on the yard which for some reason she seems to think is something to do with me (well I suppose she is right, as it was me who unthinkingly made a strange noise sufficient for her to panic!) So if I go near her she's standing rigid (didnt shake this morning, but clearly worried that I was going to do something terrible, stopped eating...stood rigid etc.) And despite the fact it was nothing to do with shovels and forks still was extremely worried when I got out the kit again this morning to muck out the stables. Almost as if she thinks I'm going to beat her....
I guess I dont feel terrible because I inadvertantly created the problem, but because it seems we have taken a huge step backwards in our relationship. Just right now she seems to think of me as someone who might "beat her up", rather than her long time buddy and favourite human...
I have to say my last gelding was much more "forgiving" in this respect... But Mara isnt...
BTW How did you get on with Deb this year? Did you take Robin? I would be interested to hear how the clinic went
It's interesting to hear you describe Mara - I'm always surprised by how horses can have very different personalities and characters. The more I'm around them, the more I notice. I have another horse (on loan) who is quite different from Robin, and both have their peculiarities, but neither would react in the way that Mara has done.
I didn't go to Deb's clinic, due to last minute lack of transport combined with crises at work, although this is not the appropriate forum to discuss the details, and anyway it's too boring to want to dwell on. I did go to her theory clinic in the New Forest the week before and as usual, I found her blend of strongly intellectual approach combined with a real concern for horse welfare quite compelling. I think there were only about three people at the clinic in Devon, so it would have been good to go, but I definitely intend to go to next year's.
I hope you find a way to reassure Mara, and I hope to see you again soon...
Sorry to hear about this - poor thing, must have been a horrible shock to her (and you!)
If the yard is really slippery then would be you able to put down a sprinking of sand or grit or something?
I think I agree with Peter in that you should just spend quality time with her doing nothing. If you have no expectations of her then she can relax again. Don't tempt fate and do things like muck out around her if she's in this heightened state of worry. Or could you leave her loose so that she can move away calmly rather than panic?
Is she normally a relaxed horse? This behaviour sounds so extreme that it makes me wonder if maybe there is a layer of tension there at other times too.
You say you did some CT with her straight after she fell over. Why was this? It's certainly not what I would think to do after an accident. Sometime the preciseness of the click can add to this "neurotic" sort of behaviour if you are trying to control the horse's emotions. I'm afraid don't agree with the various trainers who claim that eg head-down has a calming influence. After an accident I feel that the horse just needs to come to terms with what has happened in its own time. So often if we intervene then it has the effect of focussing on the issue and makes things worse. You say that it takes you weeks to work through things that worry her - maybe you are inadvertantly increasing her worry before you overcome it????
Obviously as I've never met you and Mara I can't say whether this might be the case but it's something I've seen happen before and it was the first thing that sprung to mind when I read your posts.
I hope that things have been improving over the weekend
Mara is not a very relaxed horse but considerably better than she was when I first got her (previous ownner had given up on her completely and was frightened of her- said it was much easier to work with her other horse- an arab stallion)
She seems to get an idea sort of fixed in her head. An example would be at one of our Mark rashid clinics (at Highworth, if anyone on here attended) where she decided she didnt like the indoor school and spent most of the 4 days spinning round and trying to get out through the door. No real idea why, as she'd been in lots of indoor schools before. Maybe she was picking up some sort of energy there, or didnt like the audience or.. god knows!
I had convinced myself it was me...but Mark had difficulty with her as well ans said he couldnt identify anything in particular that i was doing that was causing her to be so reactive. So much so that one our day off between clinics we went to work with her privately. In the outdoor school she was sweetess and light, responding to the lightest touch, standing calmly whilst lots of kids on their ponies were cantering around and jumping etc. But in the indoor school-- a complete nightmare. In the end Mark rode her as his clinic horse for the next clinic and did a sterling job helping her to come to terms with the school (which she didnt do completely even then) and at the same time teaching..
He, like me, thought she is a horse who does get sort of fixated with an idea very quickly and then finds it quite difficult to "change her mind" and decide something is OK after all(BTW DEb Bennet said this was typical of warmbloods!)
I do think there is an underlying element of lack of trust going on. I'm sure if she trusted me more, then we wouldnt have to go through what we do!
BTW maybe I was a little glib when I said I was clicker training her immediatley after her fall. As she was standing there tied up and with her rug half off I had do do something to be able to untie her and remove her rug... and she was not immediatley going to let me anywhere near her back end. So I was using treats (and a tongue click) to do a sort of approach and retreat gradually to work down her body to unfasten the rug. If you see what I mean.
She's still very worried after the weekend, but a little better. Less anxious in terms of me touching her, but still a bit "frozen" and not relaxed. when in the yard. (We've been there over 3 years, and she hasnt slipped before, nor has been worried- guess it was because the yard was running in water).
Sorry Carol, I meant to reply to this and thank you for the clarification. How are things going? Hope it's all back to normal again now.
These sort of incidents happen from time to time and I think that, undesirable as they obviously are, they can be turned into really useful reality checks. We all feel that our relationship with our horse is pretty good and generally it is, but it becomes tested when something goes wrong. I certainly found that with Jak's accident last year and it really helped me identify some problems and have some sort of positive outcome. I hope that's the case for you too.
Well, we are progressing, but she still is not completely happy. God knows what has gone on in her mind about all this.
I have got to the point where she'll accept her rug on, but still is a little worried about it and will on occasions go into freeze mode (this is a horse who was happy to have anything thrown over her including crinkly plastic and tarps, and would blithly eat or do whatever whilsat this was happening)
Once the rug is actually on she relaxes (and ofeten sighs) and is fine about it being fastened up etc, and fine about me walking behind her.
As for a saddle.. hmm. I haven't ridden her for a while (long story) but am just working up to getting her going again. She's having a similar reaction to the saddle - head up- freezing etc.
I'm doing lots of mark rashid-y approach and retreat stuff whilst she is eating her breakfast - to explain more clearly, I am approaching her with the saddle, and if she drops her head and eats her breakfast, rewarding her by taking the saddle away. If she freezes I am just standing still and waiting until she relaxes (and then retreat). Its getting better but it seems a long process.
If you or anyone else has any ideas I would be grateful. I'm in no hurry.. want her to get over this properly.
The main thought that sprung to mind was have you tried more of a counter-conditioning approach, rather than just advance/retreat? So that good things happen when she's wearing the rug/saddle rather than just things returning to neutral. If you also combine that with building up gradually from small numnahs/blankets to proper rugs then it will be easier for her to deal with.
It's really hard to say without seeing her but sometimes advance/retreat type methods can work more like partial flooding if the counter conditioning isn't taking place properly. Then you can end up sensitizing her further, rather than desensitizing. Maybe this is more extreme than what you're dealing with though???
I take it you're sure there is no residual physical pain from when she fell over?? Maybe something that Bowen/Shiatsu/Equine touch etc may help with??
Yours
Catherine
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