This is interesting, although gut feeling tells me (again!) we humans are missing something. Are scientists actually stupid?!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14388922/from/RS.2/

"We equate our big brain with intelligence. Over the years we have looked at these kinds of things and said the dolphins must be intelligent," he said.

When I read this, I couldn't believe what I was reading! Since when do we equate brain size with intelligence?? I thought it was well known that ~80% of our 'big-brain' goes un-used? It follows that having a big brain does not automatically mean big IQ. I thought that this idea was squashed even before the bird-brain theory, where it was assumed that having no deep clefts (as in bird brains) meant that the organism was of lower-intelligence (hence the term 'bird brain').

Oh stupid, stupid me!

I liked this bit:
'"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish it will eventually jump out to enlarge the environment it is living in," he said.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools," he said.

Why not? Because, Manger says, the thought would simply not cross their unsophisticated minds.'

Now, I'm not just being awkward here, but I thought of it like this. Maybe the dolphin knows that jumping out of the water means the likelihood of death, through beaching. How many small fish do you find stranded on beaches? I've never found one. Dolphins and Whales? Never seen one, but there are countless cases. We can assume that it is dangerous for a dolphin to jump out of water in shallow conditions (am assuming most dolphinariums are NOT as deep as the sea...), but it is not dangerous for a fish, for whom depth is not so critical, on account of their more agile bodies. I don't think it's fair to compare spontaneous jumping with that of a conditioned response, where jumping through hoops is shaped through reward.

Hi Diane

I wasn't sure about the brain-size thing. It's something that seems to keep cropping up so I was never sure if the majority had ruled it out or not. But as you say, if we don't know what most of it does then it does seem likely to be a red-herring (sorry, poor pun!).

As for jumping out of the tanks - that's a good point about the beaching, hadn't thought of that. What had crossed my mind was that a dolphin in captivity is not likely to be the healthy, inspired, decision-making creature that it would be in the wild. So, no it might not think to jump out of the cage but that level of cognitive ability could just as easily be a product of its environment, rather than representative of dolphin thinking in general.

I also thought about how it might be easy for a third-party to think that there is an obvious way out of the situation, but I'm sure we all know how hard it can be to see the wood for the trees when you are caught up in some problem. If that's the case then I reckon you could argue that it's the more "cognitively-able" species who might consciously choose an option (albeit sometimes the wrong option), rather than reacting reflexively.

Anyhow, if scientists are still measuring intelligence of dolphins based on whether or not they can extract themselves from human-imposed situations then I guess we've still got a long way to go!!

Catherine

This was posted to ethological ethics

8/21/2006

Dolphins Dumb? Scientist is Dumber

Commentary by Paul Watson
Founder and President of Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

The article about dolphins being stupid has spread suspiciously around the
global media this weekend. Seems like the Japanese public relations firms
were working overtime on this one.
Apparently, some scientist out to make a name for himself from the
University of Witwatersrand in South Africa has proclaimed that dolphins are
dumb. In fact, this academic Yoda has even gone as far to say that lab rats
and goldfish are smarter than dolphins.
Manger?s primary observable evidence is that dolphins don?t jump out of nets
or over screens in their pools.
According to neuroethologist, Paul Manger, the large brain of a dolphin and
whale is used more as an internal head warmer than for thinking. Yeah
right!!!!!
I guess all the world?s great cetologists just have no idea what they are
talking about. At least according to Manger, who claims to know a thing or
two about brains, but apparently knows very little about dolphins.
The problem with this study is that it is a simplistic and there is a
complete lack of inclusion of decades of observable behaviour in dolphins
and whales that contradicts everything that Manger is saying.
I have spent decades observing, swimming with, and studying dolphins and
whales, and to suggest that these animals are not intelligent is absurd.
Manger should get out of his academic fantasy land and go to sea ? he might
learn something.
Anyone who knows anything about dolphins and whales knows that the
conclusion of this "study" is wrong. Manger has a theory and it is a
half-baked theory at that.
I would be interested in seeing where the research money for this latest
dolphin defamation piece originated from? Japan maybe?
According to Manger, "We equate our big brain with intelligence. Over the
years, we have looked at these kinds of things and said the dolphins must be
intelligent," The real flaw in this logic is that it suggests all brains are
built the same ... When you look at the structure of the dolphin brain you
see it is not built for complex information processing," he told Reuters in
an interview.
Dolphins are widely regarded as one of the smartest mammals and this common
knowledge is not challenged by Manger, whose peer-reviewed research on the
subject has been published in Biological Reviews of the Cambridge
Philosophical Society, "but the reality is different."
Brains, he says, are made of neurons and glia. The latter create the
environment for the neurons to work properly and producing heat is one of
glia's functions.
"Dolphins have a super-abundance of glia and very few neurons ... The
dolphin's brain is not made for information processing ? it is designed to
counter the thermal challenges of being a mammal in water," Manger said.
Manger said observed behavior supports his iconoclastic take on dolphins as
dimwits.
If this is true then the only dolphins that Manger has been observing must
have had lobotomies.
"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing
it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl
a goldfish it will eventually jump out to enlarge the environment it is
living in," he said.
"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep
the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the
different pools," he said.
Why not? Because, Manger says, the thought would simply not cross their
unsophisticated minds.
The reason that dolphins do not jump out of a pool is that there is nowhere
to jump to. If there is a panel placed across the pool, the dolphin has no
way of knowing what is above the water on the other side. Dolphins will not
jump into an area unless they know what is on the other side. A fish will.
Manger turns this around to suggest that fish are smarter than dolphins.
If a goldfish jumps out of its bowl it dies ? that is NOT intelligent
behaviour. A dolphin knows this.
As for jumping out of a tuna net, the dolphin has the same problem. The
dolphin cannot see beyond the net. Would a human being jump over a wall not
knowing what is on the other side? Certainly not an intelligent human being.
The other factor is that dolphins will not abandon their young and their pod
by jumping out of the net. Dolphins have demonstrated extreme concern for
the welfare of their own in times of danger.
Manger?s theory that big brains keep cetaceans warm is ridiculous. Walrus,
manatees, leopard seals, stellar sea lions, and polar bears are big mammals
that spend time in cold waters yet they have not developed such a large
sophisticated brain.
One sign that dolphins and whales are smarter than people is that they are
not busy destroying the planet they live on like one so called ?intelligent?
primate that we all know.

Permission by the author to be freely distributed and published.
For more information on this subject: Perceptions of Intelligence by Captain
Paul Watson at:
http://www.seashepherd.org/ocean_realm/ocean_realm_aut97.html

This is the response from the WCDS
http://www.wdcs.org/dan/publishing.nsf/allnews/4A38DB7B575F0461802571CE002D9863

...I feel a certain smugness that a seemingly very clever person has basically said what I did!

This was posted on Ethological Ethics and refers to the article above.....

The Dolphin Communication Project is pleased to announce the launch of our
new science podcast: The Dolphin Pod. http://www.thedolphinpod.com

This week�s episode titled �The Dim Dolphin Controversy� features a
discussion of Dr. Paul Manger�s recent article: Manger, P. R. (2006). An
examination of cetacean brain structure with a novel hypothesis correlating
thermogenesis to the evolution of a big brain. Biol Rev Camb Philos Soc,
81(2), 293-338.

Both Dr. Manger and Dr. Lori Marino have been interviewed for this episode,
yielding a very lively and fruitful discussion. Although intended for a
general audience (with an interest in science), this episode will appeal to
academics and marine science professionals as well. If you are already
podcast savvy, you can download this and other episodes by subscribing to
this feed:

http://www.thedolphinpod.com/podcast.php

You can also download mp3 audio files of this and other episodes from The
Dolphin Pod website directly (http://www.thedolphinpod.com). You can also play the
audio from our website using an integrated Flash player.

If you are not exactly sure what a podcast is, you can follow this link for
an explanation: http://www.thedolphinpod.com/index.php?p=faq

In brief: podcasts are audio broadcasts that are available for download from
the internet.

A transcript of The Dim Dolphin Controversy episode is available here
http://www.thedolphinpod.com/index.php?p=transcripts/thedimdolphincontroversy


You can read a full transcript of the interviews with Dr. Manger and Dr.
Marino here:
http://www.thedolphinpod.com/index.php?p=transcripts/thedimdolphincontroversyinterview

Our weekly podcasts feature facts about dolphins, coverage of dolphin news
items, explanations of recent research results from dolphin studies,
scientific discussions and debates. We aim to bring scientifically accurate
information about dolphin behavior, cognition, anatomy, etc. to the public,
and also provide a forum for researchers and academics to discuss their
work. We hope that to use The Dolphin Pod as a means of reaching both the
public and other colleagues.

If you are currently involved in research that you would like to have
featured in an upcoming episode, or if you can suggest some dolphin facts
that you feel need airing, or if you have a book to promote, or simply a
scientific point of view that you would like to share with the world, please
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primarily focusing on dolphins, we also discuss other marine mammals as well.

If you have any questions about The Dolphin Pod, please get in touch with us
at podcast@thedolphinpod.com

Kind regards,

Kathleen M. Dudzinski, Ph.D.

Director, Dolphin Communication Project

Mystic Aquarium & Institute for Exploration

55 Coogan Blvd.

Mystic, CT 06355



kdudzinski@mysticaquarium.org



www.mysticaquarium.org

www.dolphincommunicationproject.org