This doesn't make for nice reading. As the article is good to point out, I don't have any problem with the abattoirs as such (although would obviously prefer horses to be slaughtered at home). The true cause of the problem is the industry itself.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/horseracing/theobserver/story/0,,1885006,00.html


(Edited to correct URL so it starts from the beginning...)

The thing that springs to mind for me is that when dead these horse can't suffer poor welfare. I know of a few ex-racehorses at the moment who either have been suffering in the hands of owners lacking in the experience and knowledge to have an ex-racehorse, or are still in those inappropriate hands and feeling the consquences.

There are so many it's hard to find good homes for them all - a symptom of over breeding in the industry if only a certain percentage actually make it to the track. And that's all about trying to make an income for the breeder at the end of the day. As my mare isn't rideable, people often ask me why I don't use her as a breeding machine to make some money... You know, seeing as she isn't rideable and therefore useless (sorry, I'm descending to sarcasm).

A friend of mine has an ex-racehorse mare who just never wanted to win - she really isn't competitive in her nature at all, she just wants to have an easy life and run around as little as possible. Her TB passport has been 'lost' and a new one acquired, minus details of her rather desirable parentage so that she cannot be used as a breeding machine. She has chronic cellulitis as a progression from recurring lymphangitis which got worse out in a loan home, she needs a lot of care and attention and a particular lifestyle to help her be at her best and happiest. I know not all breeders are bad people, just a lot of studs I've either been to or have worked on have more mares than they have staff to give them adequate care and attention.

I can understand how some TB's may end up off radar in this way - either to prevent them from being used as breeding machines or abused in the point to point world. And I appreciate not all ptp people are bad either, there just seems to be a high percentage of unscrupulous types in my area.

I seem to be off on a rant now, so I'll conclude with agreeing with you Catherine. I don't have a problem with abbatoirs, but it still would be more humane for the TB's to be shot at home rather than whisked off to a strange environment. But if the article is correct, at least the horses went to France on the hook rather than on the hoof like to poor cows - but I am wondering about the whole passport thing. Don't racehorse's tend to get medications that shouldn't enter the human food chain or am I just being naive?

Must go and calm down now!

All the best

Jenni

- with the human race

I DO have a problem with abbatoirs and a bigger one with all these wretched people who think non humans are for their amusement in ways detrimental to their well-being - and if there's anything definitively detrimental to welfare, it's being killed.

I DO NOT want to start a thread or anything else about abbatoirs etc - everyone has done their own thinking on these issues and reached their own conclusions, but - how can this go on?

Hi Rita

Sorry, yes you're right! Ok I shall clarify what I said - I have a big problem with abatoirs but in this case I don't think they are the root of the problem. It's the churning out of too many unwanted horses that needs to be addressed, not the end-point of the chain.

And I love Jenni's idea that some of the unaccounted-for racehorses may have just been hidden away in some lovely home. I just wish that could be the case for the majority!

Catherine

I was wondering if this had just disappeared. Are British vets supposed to euthanise healthy, viable e.g. dogs, if their owners so desire? If not, who's signing the death orders for these unfortunate horses - or is it just the owner's whim that makes the difference?
Is anything being done? - we signed for the Brumbies............
In despair
Rita

I don't think this petition is directly related to the article above but obviously shares the sentiments. (Warning: the Robin Cook link is pretty graphic and unpleasant - although I still think we have a responsibility to know what goes on)

http://www.britishhorseslaughter.org/index/index.asp

Sorry Rita, I also meant to pick up on your point about vets. Do we need a vet to "sign off" a horse in the UK or can anyone just take a healthy horse to the slaughterhouse? I wouldn't have a clue, although from the tone of the article I'd rather assumed that this all just went on independently of vets.

You can just book any horse and any type of livestock into the slaughter house and have it destroyed.

Although for sheep & beef cattle you need a destruction report and to inform DEFRA as all "farm" livestock due to enter the food chain either via animal feedstuffs or for human consumption are registered with DEFRA (via the tag on the their ears which they are given when they are born). Incidentially if you do ever come across any illegally dumped livestock please take the tag number and ring DEFRA to report.

Now let me get this straight - you can take a healthy, viable dog/cat/hamster to a vet and tell him/her to kill it for any reason that comes to mind. Similarly, bypassing the vet (presumably you can ask your horse vet to kill your healthy, viable horse, too), you can take your horse to a slaughterhouse, book it in and have it killed..........
Hold on, Prof. Francione - I'm coming aboard!
Mike Radford ("Animal Welfare Law in Britain" 2001, OUP, p8) points out the fearful moral tangle that ensues from our confused thinking about non-humans' status - the bottom line being that their lives depend on the verbal frame in which we put them - i.e. their "slot" in our social context. At the same time Radford puts very clearly the vets' dilemma as a profession in these situations.
A fearful feeling of impotence comes over one contemplating what's going on - now, every moment - to so many millions of non-humans. Yes humans have a horrible time too in lots of times and places - but when did adding to the suffering in the world ever make it go away? Surely we can ease the burden on non-humans - or at least make their lives and deaths dependent on something more important than a whim?
Can't some pressure be brought to bear on the profession that takes an oath to do its best for non-humans?

What a hideous dilemma for the vets. I wonder if they advise the owners to contact rescue shelters or try to find new homes for these healthy horses they are asked to slaughter. However, if the owner can't be bothered and just wants rid of the horse quickly, perhaps the vet is acting in the horse's best interests by putting it down at home rather than let it be taken to a slaughter house.

Showing my ignorance here but I wasn't sure who Prof. Francione was. Interview with him here if anyone's interested. I find myself agreeing with a lot of his sentiments but not all. For example, in my experience, "owning" a horse has turned me into more of a slave than him! That's a little flippant, I admit, but brings us to the debate of whether it's ethical to keep/ride horses at all. A subject for a different thread I think!

http://animalsrighttolifewebsite.com/prof__g_l__francione1.htm

Yup, Jan, completely agree that it's a huge ethical dilemma for a vet to be in. It reminds me a little of the arguments that many people drag out in justification of flooding. Typically along the lines of "it was either flooding or shooting the horse". In some cases you have to wonder if the horse might have been better off being put out of its misery.

Except OF COURSE, there are always alternatives to these extremes. And this is where education and reducing the number of breeding programmes have got to be long-term solutions so that vets and trainers are not put in these morally dubious "either-or" dilemmas.

Catherine

Right on the nail, Catherine, about the breeding programmes! As anyone who's been on other forums to which I've contributed may remember (groan!) I've got a bee in my bonnet about the application of Caslick's operation to mares for "performance" reasons - I've written stuff on this with references, if anyone's interested, I can e-mail it - but I'm also pretty doubtful about it as an enhancement for reproduction. The overwhelming number of these procedures carried out is in - guess? - Thoroughbred mares - "Some of these mares would breed with difficulty and others not at all", as the information officer of the Association of British Equine Practitioners (name from memory - I have the reference) told me. Now we learn that 4000 of these hardly-produced horses are being killed every year because they don't come up to scratch...........(Let alone the issue of whether mares with the characteristic formation which is said to necessitate this intervention (strangely enough e.g. native ponies almost never have this problem!) should have their lines extended..........etc etc etc.)
So indeed, this is a grass roots breeding-programme problem!

Hi Rita

Would be interested to read what you've written about Caslicks if possible. Queca had it done some years ago (health reasons).

Jan

I'd be pleased to send you the stuff - my e mail is rita_wing@hotmail.com If you send me a blank, I can reply with the article as an attachment, or you can put your e mail address up here, just as you like. What was the health problem for Queca?
This is a very under-researched theme, I think!
I just looked at your entry in "Who we are" and see that Queca is ex-polo! The number one "Caslick-for-performance" group. This is SO interesting!
Rita

No, honestly, it was for health reasons She had it done under my care not while she was in polo.

Queca's a bit of a sexy girl and, in those days, would have seasons all year round. Her efforts to attract the boys were somewhat enthusiastic and all the 'winking' she did caused her to have repeated vaginal infections, the vet thought perhaps by sucking airborne bacteria into a particularly sensitive vagina.

Her previous owner told me she had torn inside while giving birth and soon after I got her she'd been turned out with a newly gelded horse whose constant attentions resulted in her getting sore and bleeding. I tried her on Regumate, but she got very depressed. The vet suggested Caslicks which solved the problem.

Hope that's not too much information!

Hi!
I'd sent you the article before reading this posting - did the caslick's lower her interest in males, or just help with the infection issue? The mare I care for is a "sexy girl" too - perhaps a lot more would be in the right conditions! She's a great winker, too. The information one can find about the whole Caslick thing never cites "winking" as a potential source of pneumovagina (you'll see in the article that at least one eminent vet doesn't believe in pneumovagina!)
I wonder what the internal damage that Queca had sustained amounted to - has anyone else experience of mares being bothered by males to the extent of bleeding?
This is such an interesting topic!
Thanks again
Rita