I've been asked by a publisher to revise a book published some years ago about horse riding & care. I'm preparing a preliminary report to advise the publisher how much revision the book actually needs. It's a pretty good book overall, but I feel it needs updating to reflect changing (I hope!) attitudes towards keeping horses stabled and feeding restricted forage. I know there are plenty of people out there who turn their horses out 24/7 and still take part in top-level competition (Lucinda McAlpine immediately comes to mind) but ideally I'd like to be able to give some specific examples. Does anyone know of, say, any showjumpers, eventers or endurance riders who keep their horses like this (or who feed ad-lib hay or haylage)? I used to have all kinds of references but (as is so often the way when one needs them in a hurry) I can't find them!
Any info at all would be most gratefully received.
I know a UKNHCP student who has 4 high level endurance horses who live out 24/7 on the welsh hills. Would you like me to post on the UKNHCP forum to see whether he would contact you. If so, could you leave an email address so that I can include it in the post.
Don't have any names to add but would definitely agree with pushing the racehorses/endurance types. When I first became interested in barefoot I noticed Lucinda's name bandied around a lot and was really impressed with what she did. However, she was also quite an easy target for the "anti-barefoot/turnout brigade" as she had lots of money behind her so could afford the large acreage and "to risk her horses like that". Additionally, she "only did dressage" so it was easy to keep the horses unclipped and without shoes. Never mind that they were hacked out on the roads as well!
Please don't shoot the messenger(!) - I don't agree with these arguments but I have seen them pretty often and so think that you need other big names in order to make the argument work.
Catherine
This message has been edited by Brocksopp on Nov 22, 2006 2:51 PM
Hi,
Another person you could quote is les Sparks (you may know his name as he makes the 'free and easy' saddles). Les was the first person in the UK to complete a 100mile ride with a barefoot horse. All les's horses live out at grass 24/7 and that's up in county Durham. Believe me, it's cold up there!!!
Cath
Thanks for the info - it's most useful! Catherine - no worries, I don't go in for shooting messengers! I know what you mean about Lucinda being an easy target, so the more examples I have the better...Cath, thanks for the tip re Les Sparks - in fact he's not too far away from where we are so I know about cold here in the north!
I don't know whether the publisher will want me to go into detail with names etc - it all depends how much space is available once I've made my other revisions - but I thought it would be good ammo for the argument if I had a few examples of what can be done.
I thought I could also include an Arab stallion I know who does dressage, x-country, showjumping, showing (in-hand and ridden) - don't think he's done any endurance yet though). He hacks out all over the moors as well as on the roads and he's never been shod in his life (now 16) - never gone lame either as far as I know! He doesn't live out 24/7 but he's out most of the time, usually with a mare or two...so considering the book in question is aimed at the everyday rider I think he would be a fine example, especially as his owner hasn't got much by way of resources! (and he's an absolute sweetheart to boot)
Hi Lesley,
hope the weekend went well, let us know how the conference went.
Re working horses from grass, if it is not necessarily famous or competition horses you are after I could give you plenty of examples including my own horses and those of a riding school I used to work for.
Helen
Yes, please, I’d love some of your examples – the more the merrier!
The conference was great – about 150 people there and the lunch was excellent! First of all Sylvia introduced the panel and we all had to say something about ourselves (like a kind of ‘creeping death’ only much less nerve-racking!). The other panellists were Claire Lilley (lunging and ground pole work, Andy Fitzpatrick (competitive dressage – he had some very instructive things to say about rollkur), Anne Wilson (young horses) yours truly (horse behaviour), and Paul Belton of Albion Saddlery about – well, about saddlery. Then we all went to sit at smaller tables where people could come & talk to us about our individual subjects. After that was lunch, followed of course by the Spanish Riding School performance which was superb as usual. When that was over we went back to the Arena Suite for coffee and tea and a chance to talk to one of the Chief Riders of the Spanish Riding School, Johann Riegler, who ws very amusing as well as very informative. I did ask my question, carried over from another thread – re whether the riders still have to pay a fine of a bag of sugar if they fall off! Herr Riegler said, no, nowadays they have to buy the other riders a drink! Ah well, I suppose it as different after World War II when sugar was scarce!
There were a few tense moments at lunch, because a friend who was with me made some rather critical comments about Parelli and there were a couple of dyed-in-the-wool Parelli-ites present who took the huff – one of them got rather vehement and made some remarks about Parelli having over 250,000 followers worldwide and who follows Lesley Skipper? I was rather taken aback by this, first of all because I didn’t actually make the inflammatory comments and second because I wouldn’t want anyone ‘following’ me! In fact I’d be horrified if they did, because I want to encourage people to think for themselves, not just blindly follow a trainer (no matter how charismatic) and parrot what he or she says. In fact I noticed something of a persistent trend which I find rather worrying and which has often been highlighted by people like Emma Kurrels: most of the people at the conference seemed open-minded and willing to learn, but there were a few who seem to have latched onto a particular trainer or ‘method’ and (no doubt out of loyalty) got rather huffy t any suggestion that everything said trainer says (or said method requires) should be open to question. I suppose not everyone has either the time or the inclination to do the research which enables them to sift the gold from the dross, but all the same it’s worrying…
Oh I wish I had more time! There are a million threads I want to reply to, but the rest will have to wait. Just quickly Lesley I wanted to pick up on the (very good) point that you made about 'camps' and 'blind following' (my words not yours!). This is exactly what i wanted to target at the APBC equine day- to get across to people that it is not about who you follow or what method you use, it is about understanding learning, horse behaviour, physiology and psychology of stress, and techniques for behavioural modification. ANd understanding them from a scientific standpoint, not from some ideas that people have made up as they went along, or old wives tails, nor even anecdotal observations of horse behaviour (although I do believe anecdotal evidence has a part to play or else how would we all learn to be good horsepeople!).
WE OWE IT TO THE HORSES TO EDUCATE OURSELVES TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITIES!!!
This is so so important, I could go on and on about it for ages. Like you I do not want people to follow the 'helen spence' method of horsemanship, but I do want to be able to share my knowledge and learning with people so that they can develop their OWN methods of horsemanship, which should in my opinion not be branded as anything other than GOOD horsemanship.
The conference sounds great, will there be a write up in the CRC mag? Must renew my membership!!
I saw the SRS on Fri night, was absolutely wonderful.
Finally re turnout and riding stuff, can I email you about it and if so what is the address?
Sorry this is so rushed, I hope it makes sense!
Helen
Thanks for the reply. I'm sure there will be a write-up on the CRC conference - I've been asked for my input re the kind of questions asked so I guess I'd better put my 'tactful' hat on!
Re the info you offered to send me - this will be most gratefully received because the publishers have told me they want me to go ahead with the revisions so I'd better get my thinking cap on (just recovering from some nameless lurgy which laid me low for nearly a week, now got shocking head cold - bah!). You can send the info to me on; zareeba@ntlworld.com - thanks a million!
I hadn't realised you wanted input from us lot too! In that case, here are a few experiences I've had with Jak. Please let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything...
He's lived out year round for the last 5ish years. My initial reasoning was that he was overweight and that I'd leave him out at night until he started to drop off a bit. I'd become (temporarily!) interested in some of Strasser's theories but I wasn't prepared to inflict them on Jak, they were just at the back of my mind to see if they applied to Jak. Up until then I'd always thought that Jak liked his stable because he would wait at the gate to come in. And I'd always thought I needed to clip if he was going to be ridden.
I soon found that he didn't lose weight when he was left out. That was unusual as he had done every other year, always a bit wimpy and needed multiple rugs etc. Since he's been out I haven't used rugs either as a regular thing. He always hated them and so now I only put one on if he is obviously cold, typically a couple of nights a year and I still suspect that is more because I feel guilty rather than because he actually wants it. Still makes it very clear he doesn't like the rug. I never clip him anymore either - he grows a fairly thick not not excessive coat. He builds up a sweat every ride. And he stopped waiting at the gate as soon as I stopped conditioning him to come in!
Feedwise, he gets grass, ad-lib hay in the field once the grass is too low and a feed once or twice a day containing chopped grass/alfalfa. This year I'm planning to use TopSpec as well but haven't got round to that yet. Nothing much, more of a token gesture rather than anything for weight-maintenance.
As far as riding goes, I've never found that the old assurances that sweaty horses will lose muscle tone apply to us, although I can imagine that would happen if I put him straight in a stable to stand still for the rest of the day. I do tend to ride in the morning during the winter so that he has more chance of drying off rapidly. I half-heartedly try to slow down for the last bit but depends on which way we've been - some of the bests gallops are close to home!
Being furry was no disadvantage to the winter sponsored rides or mock hunts we've done. I always try to give him the opportunity to roll straight away after untacking, same thing when we're at home. I never wash the sweat off, preferring him to dry off as quickly as possible as he wanders around the field generating body heat
ETA - another thing I find interesting is how much his coat changes in response to different temperatures. You can tell how warm he is by how flat the hairs are lying. And when the weather is cold and his coat is fluffed up, he feels cold to touch at the outermost tips of the hairs but very warm when you part the hairs and touch the skin. The insulation works bloody well!
Hope this is useful
Catherine
This message has been edited by Brocksopp on Dec 4, 2006 3:13 PM
Current Topic - Help! Need info on working horses from grass
