for STUDENTS & DOCTORS
"Building a podiatric community through cooperation"
Created in 1999 to facilitate intelligent & constructive communication between prospective students , podiatric medical students & doctors. Thank you for making the PF the busiest podiatry forum on the internet. Comments expressed are NOT those of the webmaster, moderators nor advertisers/sponsors but rather reflect the opinions of that individual poster.
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How difficult? (Admissions)by pod (no login)How hard is it to get into a Pod school? In terms of GPA, whats the lowest gpa you can have and still get into pod school? from IP address 72.140.255.61 |
Not Very hardby Anonymous (no login)It isn't too hard to get into the schools. I think the minimun is like a 2.5. However, once you get in you better be willing to work your ass off or else you will have a lot of debt and nothing to show for it. Almost 50% of our class has dropped out after the first year. It is easy to get in, but hard to get through. from IP address 66.176.72.178 |
EASY ADMISSIONSby Former Pod Student Now Med Studet (no login)It is definitely easy to get into Podiatry School. I have friends in pod school now who got in with a 17 MCAT and 2.73 science GPA and 2.8 cumulative GPA. The easy part is getting in. What's hard about podiatry school is staying in! Good luck! from IP address 68.96.162.128 |
Re: EASY ADMISSIONSby NYCPM Pod (no login)You're wrong. Have you talked to every podiatry student to see what their academic background was? The fact is, if you have a 2.7 GPA and a 17 MCAT score as your friend had, that's pretty rare to get in. Podiatry schools do have standards. I know people who have a 3.5 GPA and stellar MCAT scores but didn't get accepted because they interviewed poorly. There are MANY factors to getting in. Grades are a major factor but your letters of recommendation, shadowing experience, leadership roles, and interview definitely play a huge role. You were right about staying in being difficult, but that can be said about any medical profession. If you want it, you study for it or else. from IP address 38.112.188.34 |
What are you talking about??by JJL, DPM (no login)You're full of it my friend. Podiatry schools have no standards. I personally reviewed hundreds of applications for the school I sat on the admissions cmte for. I know of hundreds if not thousands of under-qualified applicants that were welcomed with open arms. What is your podiatry credentials huh? Schools take anyone who can sign the loans. from IP address 68.98.10.113 |
Getting in to POD schoolby Podiatry Veteran (no login)The only way you can do bad on a Podiatry school interview is tell them that you have no money for tuition. That was the only question that they cared about when I was interviewd in 1978. I'm sure it's the same today. from IP address 205.188.117.14 |
Re: How difficult? (Admissions)by Anonymous (no login)you better have at least a 3.0 if not then other things may get you in , It's not a cake walk from IP address 12.206.84.95 |
Don,tby Viper (no login) To answer your question, very low GPA. 2.8 or so. If you are intrested in Medicine apply to some good carribean schools. from IP address 137.52.177.132 |
DONT GO TO ALLby vince (no login)Please....dont go to podiatry school if you do not like to look at feet. Because you are goin to look at nasty foot for the rest of your life. Dont think about making a lot of money because you are not goin to and that is the truth. Why do you think there are so many negative thoughts out there. Because there are more people hating it than loving it. So think twice. This is not a good medical profession. The schools are there just to make money from you. from IP address 69.251.54.161 |
Do NOT sign upby B.I. (no login)Do not go into any field that needs to hire recruiters and other naive slick salesmen to sell a "professional" job to the tune of 150K in non-bankruptable student loans. If you really love feet become a foot/ankle orthopod, that way you get truly rigorous medical and surgical training that is universally recognized unlike the futile and oftentimes embarassing podiatry efforts into mainstream medicine. If you are going to invest at least 150K, you better get an exellent return on your money, time, and emotions invested--podiatry does NOT offer a viable career alternative--they rely outdated, biased stats, and confusing the ignorant to peddle a career that has as much legitimacy and "career" potential as a tailor in a nudist colony. from IP address 134.174.248.70 |
Re: Do NOT sign upby k.d. (no login)i agree! podiatry is silly. podiatrists don't do anything some type of real md doesn't do better except cut toenails and nail techs do that better. DON'T GO TO PODIATRY SCHOOL!!!!! I did and have regretted it ever since. from IP address 63.212.166.178 |
if you go you will never look in a real mirrorby caddypod (no login)DPM schools have a special circus parameter-you look in it and think that you are an RD (real doctor). A critical error of life. Of course you can get a mirror from a carnival supply house. I have three and if you let me cut your nails you can have one...kidding I already had my twenty one years of bad luck. from IP address 63.21.204.52 |
cake to get inby ex-pod student (no login)I just want to let you know that it isn't difficult at all to get into pod school. I was offered an acceptance without even interviewing. They even wanted to pay for my airfare and hotel if I wanted to come out. I got multiple calls from other schools as well to schedule an interview. They would not give up even after I accepted Scholl's offer. They did not call me a couple of hours after my application was completed by AACPMAS and sent to the schools. Instead, Scholl sent me a letter which I recieved a week later. They were the only school to respond professionally. With that said, my MCAT was not at all high by any means. I had friends at DMU, NYCPM, Ohio, and Barry with 17-19 MCATs and 2.67 - 3.0 science GPAs and 2.8 - 3.2 overall GPAs. I ended up applying to med school after 1st year and got in. I think my high grades in pod classes definitely helped. Don't worry about getting in. Worry about the debt you'll get when you graduate. from IP address 70.170.27.110 |
Getting out is the hard partby Anonymous (no login)08-16-2006 I suspect that many of you will find getting into Podiatry is the easy part, but getting out unscathed (financially) the difficult part. I am aware of no minimum admissions standards in the post managed care era. Myself and a number of those I know have exited & gone on to other professions and occupations. Several of the names are well known in the podiatry literature- no need to belabor that point. If the dream that you bought into, or were "sold" by the schools is that of a high powered, high pay foot surgeon, then I respectfully suggest that you (first week in Podiatry school) get a handle on how many total freshman are occupying seats in the schools- and request truthful information Re: the total number of two and three year ABPS credentialed post-grad residency programs that currently exist- and calculate your chances of securing one of those sought-after positions. Weigh that against the outlay of dollars and the earning years that you'd lose while working on that DPM- and then do a bit of thoughtful reflection & decide if you can tolerate the risk. Don't forget to factor in the trend in reimbursements for those surgical procedures & the anticipated additional pay cuts & competitive bidding for DME services that certain payors have in mind for you in the near future. One also needs to consider the trend in reimbursement levels for DPM's in the area in which you intend to practice (private and public payors), whether the managed care companies currently or in the recent past have had moratoriums in place for new DPM's (or other providers) ((as in you can't get in/on the panel of providers:we already have a DPM)). You might be unpleasantly surprised at what you uncover! The due diligence process also demands that you investigate the job opportunities for DPM's- which (in my humble opinion) are slim at best. My niece is in her second year as a pharmacist. Low malpractice, regular hours, easy work & I understand she is now at 105k (85 first year)- all for 5 years (2 undergrad & 3 in pharm school) of effort. Fabulous 401k match from the employer assuring a VERY comfortable retirement. A sibling is an optometrist, and I know that s/he has a thriving practice with minimal malpractice expense and insurance hassles. Those who forge ahead with their DPM quest also need to be cognizant of the mandatory reporting of positive HBV and HIV status to state licensing boards, and the consequences of a positive test result. I would assume that the schools have discussed this with all students in the preadmission process. Moral vs. legal duty for the schools: your guess is as good as mine. Those who have disparaged this website in the "glossy" podiatry magazines, or who are now comfortably retired & made their fortunes in podiatry during the pre managed care era and pre medicare payment restructuring (PPR) days- or have successfully left podiatry- perhaps should temper their hearty endorsements of podiatry as a worthy career option. That advice/recommendation is based on outdated and antiquated information... and pleasant memories. Gone With the Wind I am afraid. Incidentally, I would thank those that host this site, for allowing the "unvarnished" truths to be aired for all unsuspecting/naive podiatry student hopefuls to access & reflect on. Finally, remember that podiatry student loans are non-dischargeable. No loan forgiveness for practicing in a "shortage area" to the best of my knowledge. And for heavens sakes, please realize that there is no DPM shortage- at least not now (my opinion), if there ever was. I'm not alone in that opinion either. Anonymous I'd rather stay from IP address 69.179.187.82 |
Coding for external fixator joint distractionby Christopher Formanek, DPM (no login)What would be the proper CPT-4 coding for a 1st metarsophalangeal joint distraction via external fixator? Do I use an unlisted surgical procedure code 28899 and submit along with the operative report. I will be performing this also in the context of a decompression head osteotomy and shortening cylindrical Akin procedure. from IP address 72.151.1.4 |
wrong websiteby JB (no login)you will probably get a better response going to Codingline.com and asking your billing question there. it is a Podiatry specific coding website. they are very helpful. good luck. from IP address 151.201.76.208 |
moving into the new milleniumby (no login)This site presents itself as being a dynamic forum for PODIATRY. The mosr recent posts are two weeks old. This is a reflection of the state of either the moderator, the participants, podiaty or some other factor of which I am I am not aware. Can anyone enlighten me as to what is going on? Why such low interest? from IP address 69.215.232.200 |
Not going to Podschool anymore :(by I'mexprepodnow! (no login)I was naturally interested in podiatry after I had the opportunity to shadow a podiatrist in my area (who in fact is very succesful, makes a lot of money, is very optimistic and loves what he does). I was very excited about the profession. Both of my parents are MDs and they thought it was unique and were very supportive as long as I was happy, which I WAS until I read all these messages last night. By friend told me to read about student networks and forums online yesterday, and I have been in shock about all these messages, with the exceptions of a few that seemed relevant and mature. I have called my parents crying and very dissapoinment this afternoon. Because of this, I have decided to take a year off!!! and apply to Medical School and/or somewhere else...and NO, I am not an MD/DO flunky who did not get into Med School, I just have not applied yet. I am graduating Summa Cum Laude (GPA 3.9) and MCAT 24. If DPMs referred to the profession in this manner, something must be wrong with it. I have never been so dissapointed in my life. I thought I finally found what I liked, but this conflicting environment and constant battle is not for me. People who are happy with what they do should not be constantly defensive about their profession. Should be proud. I believe everything is what you make of it. Work hard and learn. Be competitive, compassionate, and serve other primarily. I am glad I am not going to be sitting in class this Fall with people like the ones in this forum. Good luck to all future DPMs! and I am sure there are great ones out there like the doctor I shadowed. from IP address 207.138.91.33 |
Please send me an emailby (no login)Im sorry that you came across this site. It by no means represents the profession as a whole. There is a reason why these people are upset, but know they are the minority. Send me an email and I will be more than happy to talk to you about this and answer your questions or concerns in a less biased manner than this site. Dont let an internet site deter you from what you want to do. Geoff.Ericksen@hotmail.com from IP address 64.17.194.99 |
Go to Medical School.....by James (no login)With all due respect, get over it and stop crying. The country is at war, and you have "never been so disappointed in my life". Believe me that was my comment during podiatry "school". Move on and go into a much better career path. You can shadow podiatrists until the cows come home. Some are good, some are not so good. That is life. However, you made the BEST decision to take a year off and apply to medical schools IF that is what you really want. There are other investment business and cash flow streams that are far better than working 7a-6p like most boomers who will be in for some serious troubles in about 5-10 years from now. JUST WATCH. Rich, dad, poor dad. from IP address 134.174.248.70 |
good newsby cma (no login)If you desire to render medical treatment to feet and ankles, do this. Apply to med school. Complete an ortho residency and do a foot and ankle fellowship. from IP address 204.58.169.233 |
Good choice.by JJL (no login)Good decision. Just remember that you can be involved in lower extremity medicine without being a DPM. In my complex, there is a DO who is a foot and ankle specialist. There are just not a whole lot of windows into the world of podiatry which lead to what having a MD/DO/DDS will do. Best of Luck. JJL, DPM from IP address 68.98.10.113 |
Its a shame that you let the failures of a podiatry influence youby Anonymous (no login)I have been in this profession for enough years to see that most of the younger residents and students expect to make six figures the first year out and that is the only factor they think about! Well suprise it does not happen and those of us that are in the 1% club have to work at it, it is not handed over on a silver plater...As to this profession contact the Academy of Ambulatory Foot and Ankle Surgery and talk to those of us that are out here making a good living and helping society NOT the flunkies on this web site!!! This is a good profession and many of us choose Podiatry and did not settle for it when we got turned down for medical school. You make your profession it does no make you.... from IP address 64.12.116.139 |
Please, read my messageby (no login)Please, read my message before you committ your sanity to a profession such as podiatry. It has been my experience that there is not a single honest person in this profession. And how could there be when the majority, if not, everyone in podiatry is barely making a decent living. Don't be fooled by what the census or job markets release as credible information. You still have time to reconsider, so do it. Go into anything else, other than podiatry or even medicine. I too was a Summa Cum Laude, but that doesn't mean a thing when it's all about business. It really isn't about providing good care and medicine. It's about how many patients you can see in an hour. Sad but true. I too am very disappointend with podiatry. from IP address 70.254.103.148 |
Dont let a forum steer you wrongby Anonymous (no login)1/2 of the people bitching in these forums are probably orthopods posing as podiatrists. the other 1/2 are people that have too much time on their hands. then there are a handful that are actually helpful. dont' let the podiatry bitching forum get you down on podiatry. this is a very minority of podiatrists. if it was so bad all of the podiatrists in your town would be closing shop. from IP address 72.181.63.245 |
who posts on this site?by old pod (no login)1- orthopods don't even know this site exists 2- the honest people that post here are trying to keep other people from making the same mistakes that they did 3- the above mentioned people are the only ones that have no stake in the the future of podiatry, most others stands to benefit if someone believes the hype and is naive enough to believe it, as I was... from IP address 75.33.55.173 |
Relevanceby Caddypod (no login)Podiatry is a means to a beginning. At some point after penning DPM after your name, you realize that explaining what you do is most timely and essentially useless; who cares? Are you the true FOOT PROFESSIONAL? It is subject to interpretation. I have endeavored into many fields -obtaining an MD was just a ****inuation of general education-The days of Minimal Incision Surgery...so long ago are gone. The modern DPM with its steadfastednest toward expensive CPME (as opposed to AMA AOA approval diminish the diminsions of post grad CME courses) Its been a greedy profession to many of my colleagues still suffering-yet doing well in real estate, investments and such that- I cannot dissuade someone willing to take a chance. It is truly not PODIATRY that diminishes the spirit of the field-it is podiatrists. Greed and petty tyranism, a seething jealousy that makes even your remote success a criminal act. Yes-I must say that podiatry was a great tool for me when I was doing my MD school clerkships-I made $ and cannot deny that at all. My friends-I have sadly seen many pass away have had the courage to route them to the personal successes - as all success is different. not some monetary goal or Bentleyed beleicosity, no true, gentle people who wanted to treat patients as physicians without some tag of a degree. Sadly you must find the people who have visited those places - where a gradpe point average made every bit of a difference- and the folks who went too far and did less than ethical things to make $. I hope you can find it odd that an old author-yeah, I had a few pops of good luck-An ex will blythely take it away, but; as much as I knock podiatrty, its a place to start. DPMs are for the most part folks that are just trying to make themselves a life that feels good. I've written books, movies, travelled the world, and a long time ago got accepted to an MD neuro program. Now at this point of writer's block and circumspection would not mind cutting a tendon or two...as well as the capsule-only where medically nec. and only with full consent. Consider all things and if a decision does not occur-do something else. Caddypod backstory from IP address 63.21.222.3 |
natural selectionby podres (no login)Weak. Another casualty to natural selection. Here is how life works- those who want it, get it. Those who dont, get swallowed up by the others. If you dont want to be a podiatrist, dont be. It is that easy. Now stop crying. from IP address 66.124.237.226 |
Not going to Podshool anymoreby Podiatry Veteran (no login)Podiatry as a profession is actually OK. It's managed care and the insurance companies that have ruined it! I hope the CEO of Humana gets a paronychia of a heel spur one day and suffers!!! from IP address 205.188.117.14 |
Re: Not going to Podschool anymore :(by DPM (no login)You should listen to your heart and remember how you felt seeing the podiatrist helping patients. Truly it is what you make it and the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence. I am a new pod practicing less than 5 years and I am doing great. The MCAT score and grades are nice, but as they say a true evaluation of character is when you are faced with adversity. So, you become and orthopedist, and you are doing surgery and things don't go exactly as you planned. Now what? cry , change professions? No you let your character and applied knowledge lead you to success and build your confidence. You will be dealing with people and if you are not comfortable with challenges and asking a lot of yourself you should play it safe and become a RN or pharmacist. Put in your 36-40 hours get your paycheck and go home to an average life If you want to chart your own future and have a strong business sense the world is your oyster. Ultimately you have to look at yourself and your character and decide what you are made of suck it up from IP address 207.200.116.198 |
GULLIBLEby NEW GRAD (no login)What is a reasonable deal for a new grad from a three year surgical program (PM & S -36)? is 85K base plus half of anything over 2 times the base a fair deal? And is doubling 85K possible for a new practitioner? Are bonuses linked to DME a better deal? ---lost from IP address 24.218.220.109 |
Maybeby (no login)I can get you in touch with a podiatrist I sold an ultrasound system too and he can probably let you knwo if this is a good deal or not.... I sell Ultrasound systems to Podiatrist and usually they make about 150K-250K a year just from the ulrasound system alone... from IP address 71.139.46.252 |
85K is a JOKE.by J.G. (no login)AN INTERNIST FRESH OUTTA RESIDENCY THEY MAKE 130-145K PRE-TAX TO START WITH-- YOU AS A PODIATRIST WENT THROUGH 8 years of college and pod schooling followed by 3 years (same as internist) and you are actually ENTERTAINING JOB "OFFERS" of 85K pre-tax-- ARE YOU KIDDING?????? Truckers make 65-68K. from IP address 64.81.38.149 |
I am surprised with all theseby Paty (no login)I have seriously considered a career in podiatric medicine. I am highly concerned and worry about what I have read tonight in this website. I am currently having an interview at Barry University and my I don't know what to do or think about this career. from IP address 207.138.91.33 |
sources of infoby pod (no login)Paty, Might I recommend that you discuss your career options with the local hospital administrator. Usually they have a great feel for the health care environment. Furthermore, you need to ask yourself where you want to practice someday. If it is important that you practice in a particular area then you need to do the following: Call the podiatry offices in the area and ask them how long it would take you to get an appointment as a patient. If they can get you in the same week, the area might be saturated at this point. Also ask them if there are a lot of HMOs in your area. If these are common, call the biggest one of them and ask for provider relations. This person can tell you whether the plan is accepting new podiatrists or if the panel is closed. If the panel is closed, this is a bad sign for your area. Lastly, you need to calculate your expected monthly student loan bill based on expected expenditures. Make sure that you are comfortable with this number because you can't get out of paying back this money. Good luck. Just my personal opinions. from IP address 67.22.112.164 |
Re: I am surprised with all theseby disgusted pod (no login)you can be a podiatrist and do worthwhile, meaningful things to help people. after you finish your training, you will be in possession of some unique skills and a limited but still legitimate area of expertise, and theoretically, there will be a minor but very real role for you within the healthcare professions. unfortunately, the majority of desirable living locations are already saturated with podiatrists more established and qualified than you. this will put you in the desparate situation of either accepting a standard of living much lower than you likely ever imagined or compromising your personal values to join the hundreds of other pods who are doing everything possible ethical or not to squeeze every penny they can out of the insurance plans. you will learn to play the game. you will possibly convince yourself this is okay, not your fault the system is as screwed up as it is, that the hmo's are the bad guys. after all, why should you be the only one out there not making money? eventually, you will become good at this and find yourself making a handsome income and so what if your patient didn't really need that bunionectomy for which you just got paid 6 G's out of network? sadly, this kind of behavior on the part of so-called healthcare practitioners is a large part of the reason our healthcare system is drained, 45 million uninsured 18,000 of whom die each year unnecessarily. this is why real wages for low and middle income workers are decreasing over time. this is why we spend more than any other nation on healthcare yet rank 29th in infant mortality. if you're entering healthcare to become a part of the solution, beware that as a podiatrist, you may quickly find yourself a part of the problem. from IP address 63.212.166.178 |
Need Confirmation of Office Accounting Practiceby Office Manager Extraordinaire Needs Help (no login)After managing a very successful Podiatric practice for almost 18 years, I recently took a consulting position with a DPM in financial crisis. After observing his staff, billing and accounting "procedures", I advised him that his office really has no procedure. They have no protocol for daily balancing of payments, review of daily charges, they are not even sure that every patient seen is billed for treatment. They use a billing service and hardly ever look at their EOB's. In my experience, documentation of all daily income and review of charges and payments/denials is absolutely necessary. If you are not going to charge for services rendered, or make sure that you collect all that you can, AND put it in the bank, then you might as well go home. The Dr. is responsible for documentation of all medical treatment in the patients chart, so why shouldn't he expect the same documentation procedures of his office staff? Lack of such procedure may be the sole reason that he is in financial trouble. The Dr. thinks (wants to believe, and was hoping that my observation would confirm) that his troubles are a direct result of lack of marketing, low fee schedules, out of network deductibles, patient inability to pay high out of pocket expense, etc. While these are certainly factors, please help me convince him otherwise!! Doesn't every office have daily balancing/review of charges procedure? Are my ideas in the minority? Although I have found accounting and billing errors, (and many omissions and discrepancies of both, on a daily basis), the Dr. tells me that he is sure that all of the above is done "for the most part" . And, "mistakes are always going to happen". If the routing slips are not filled out properly, or at all, that it is his fault. The Dr.'s employees are nice people and have been with the practice for almost ten years. They are like family to the Dr. and he is afraid to rock the boat. They have never been taught to balance the books and don't see the importance of missing a couple of patient billings per week. My best advice to him is that a successful practice takes a lot of hard work, team work, from every member of the office, not just the Dr. I have simple ways to teach the Dr. and his employees to accomplish all of the above. I just need some back up. Anyone? from IP address 24.13.249.1 |
Compensation sources for Podiatry Residentsby Norelin Ballard (no login)Hello, My name is Norelin Ballard and I am in the HR department for a large medical center in the state of Washington. I am currently looking for some reliable and verifiable sources concerning compensation for Podiatry Residents. If anyone out there can lead me to these sources, it would be appreciated. Thank you. from IP address 199.79.112.254 |
Residency Compensationby Anonymous (no login)The Council on Podiatric Medical Education of the APMA may be helpful. The Council of Teaching Hospital may also have this data. If you are in a large teaching hospital, the compensation would be the same as your residencies in other specialties. A PGY 1,2 and 3 year(the maximum for podiatric medical and surgery 36 months would allow although I believe a fourth year may be permitted for number competancies)would be the same as a PGY 1 etc. for Internal medicicne, general surgery or other specialities. At our institiution that corresponds to 32, 34, and 36,000/year but that is probably low compared to northeastern hospitals. from IP address 152.163.100.139 |
RE to residency salariesby Who's your daddy (no login)Google CASPR/CRIP and you can find the salaries there. Peace out. from IP address 64.233.238.54 |
JAPMAby jonwill (no login)The last "Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association" had an in depth study on pay scale. from IP address 12.216.181.157 |
Compensationby (no login)Compensation...? What do you mean...? Are you asking how podiatrists get paid through insurance companies..? If this is what you are asking I can help explain.... from IP address 71.139.46.252 |
Podiatry as a careerby (no login)I suppose it is time that I write this. To those considering entering podiatry as a career, all I can tell you is what I would tell myself if I had it to do over again: DON’T DO IT! It is true that some of my classmates were able to make podiatry work as a career. A couple of them are employed at a major university, teaching podiatry to medical students who want to enter family practice. Some classmates were able to join established practices. A few made it starting cold. If you have connections who can help you into a good position, then podiatry might make a good career. Otherwise it is a huge gamble, and you should understand that you can easily lose the bet, even if you are smart, hard working, and personable. The most impressive young podiatrist that I ever met failed in private practice in an urban area. You will hear the adage, “If you’re a good doc, you’ll do fine.” This is at best misleading. You are far more likely to “do fine” if you are willing and able to talk patients into undergoing unnecessary surgical procedures and other unnecessary care. Perhaps half the surgical procedures I witnessed during my senior year and during my residency were, in my opinion, undertaken because the podiatrist talked the patient into them, not because they were medically necessary. Those pods that did unnecessary surgery indeed did well financially, and that was the reason. Welcome to the reality of podiatry that no one wants to talk about. I was never willing to do that to patients, which is one of the reasons I am no longer in practice. I don’t mean to imply that all pods do this. Some podiatrists are ethical, practice excellent podiatry, and after many years are able to establish a highly successful practice. Just don’t assume that they are the norm. Once you have finished your residency, if you scout around for a place to practice, you will hear the same story from almost all podiatrists. “No, we’ve got way too many pods around here, but I hear that (some distant place) is still pretty open.” Then you drive to the distant place, where you can talk to the local pods, and hear exactly the same story. Then you drive to distant states, and hear the same story. Eventually it will dawn on you – either all these pods are lying, trying to protect their turfs, or your services are really not needed. Don’t believe me? Try it yourself! If you are in podiatry school, or are considering entering the profession, go out and actually ask pods in the area where you want to practice about practice conditions. Ask for specifics: “How long will it take me to get established? How much can I realistically expect to earn? Did you earn that much?” When a podiatrist talks to you, you should bear in mind that there are some mistakes in life that are so large that they can be very hard to admit – such as choosing the wrong career. If you start a practice cold, be prepared to learn what cold really means, and familiarize yourself with bankruptcy laws. (Isn’t that why you wanted a medical career?) Hey, maybe you’ll make it, it’s possible. Nursing home patients were once regarded as a necessary evil for paying the bills until a podiatrist established a practice. Those days ended long ago. Best of luck finding a nursing home that needs the services of a new podiatrist. If you find one, make sure they don’t require that you pay an illegal kickback. And remember that your employment depends on the nursing director, so when she changes jobs... You may be able to find a position treating indigent patients as a volunteer or for a small salary. I helped some people who genuinely needed help, and I think my compensation almost covered my coffee bill. The best podiatrists are genuine experts in foot care and foot surgery, and are far more competent than their MD competition. The problem is that for decades the schools have continued to selfishly serve their own interests by cranking out an outrageous number of graduates, well in excess of any public need. If you need foot surgery, see a good podiatrist. If you need a career, look elsewhere. I thought podiatry would be an unglamorous but safe and lucrative career. I now think of it as an unglamorous, expensive, ethically perilous hobby. I’m privileged to have been able to learn all I learned, and I met some great people along the way, but entering podiatry was the worst mistake I ever made. from IP address 67.137.249.147 |
Career change?by active Pod (no login)You mentioned that you are no longer in practice. May I ask how long you were in practice, and what you went into when you changed carreers? from IP address 67.175.187.45 |
Real estateby jim (no login)Real estate and real estate investing, far more money, flexibility, and fewer hours of monotonity and flourescent lighting. from IP address 134.174.248.70 |
Good for them!by jonwill (no login)So, in other words, besides you, most of your classmates have done well. I'd say those are pretty good odds! from IP address 64.17.196.229 |
good odds?by roll the dice (no login)how many MD or DO docs do you think would take our bet.......... from IP address 67.39.203.52 |
I would write the same postby another ex pod (no login)This was a well written, thoughtful, accurate account of what happens to way too many pods. Podiatry has no leadership, ethical or otherwise. Hopefully, someone will appear to change things. We need a Surgeon General of podiaty. Can you think of a nationally known, respected advocate of our profession? I can't. from IP address 67.39.203.52 |
Agreed.by JJL (no login)Agreed. Podiatrists tend to hide their heads in the sand when the medical community comes around. We need to stand up and be leaders of an organization that can provide people with valuable services. from IP address 68.98.10.113 |
PODIATRY: A WONDERFUL CAREERby LONG ISLAND PODIATRIST (no login)I disagree with you. You don't neet to talk patients into unnecesary surgery to get rich. This will not make you rich. In fact, this will eventually catch upto you and you will get sued. Also sugery takes up too much time and doesnt pay as well as it did in the 80's. On the other hand.......talking patients into coughing up 3-500 dollars for unecesary orthotics WILL make you rich. You can sleep well at night knowing you have not crippled, maimed, or killed any patient. If the orthotic doesnt work?--It doesnt work. Big deal Better than watching a failed tendon transfer walk into your office. That tendon transfer takes 3 hours out of your day to perform. Then you have to deal with all the post op visits within the global period. Then you have the stress of failed surgery. In the time it takes to perform one koutsagiannis/fdl transfer plus the "free" post op care you can cast for 8-9 orthotics and make 10 times as much. Orthotics are the greatest thing to ever happen to our profession. Look into it. See the enormous profit margin. There is NOTHING like it.(maybe beanie babies) from IP address 134.174.110.5 |
Re: PODIATRY: A WONDERFUL CAREERby heeb-a-pod (no login)Love it. Notice how he "sleeps at night" after prescribing the "unnecessary" orthotics! I guess as long as he doesn't "hurt anybody" it's OK to steal their money. As Louis Armstrong said..." What a wonderful world" WTF is this dood thinkin? from IP address 67.34.245.245 |
Re: PODIATRY: A WONDERFUL CAREERby appalled (no login)unnecessary orthotics bankrupt the system just as much as unnecessary surgery or unnecessary nail debridement. is this something a truly self respecting professional with 5-7 years of training can feel good about? it itsn't the people who leave the profession who are the losers. from IP address 63.212.166.178 |
I hear you loud and clear!by (no login)You can say that again and again and you wouln't offend me at all. What's more, I believe you 100%. I'm in that boat, even as I speak. What I want to know, if you don't mind, is how did you get out of it and, if you did, how did you get out of your debt. My debt is the only reason why I'm still trying to make it work. If I could rid myself from that ball and chain, I would in a heart beat, even if it meant selling my diploma. I don't mind starting from scratch as long I start debt free. Yours Truly from IP address 70.254.108.112 |
interview question..by Anonymous (no login)How easily do schools give out interview invitations? Do they invite almost everyone even if the applicant might not be a good candidate? I got invitations for interviews at some colleges..but I am not sure how I'm supposed to take this. Do they invite only those who are likely to get accepted? or are they sort of free raffles tickets??? from IP address 64.203.11.227 |
Re: interview question..by Anonymous (no login)If you have been invited for an interview, you should consider yourself to be a desirable student. Not everyone who applies is invited for an interview. Being invited for an interview does not mean you will definately be offered admission. But more than likely, I would say that it is a very, very good sign. from IP address 12.216.55.192 |
Re: Interview questionby Annie (no login)As the other person mentioned to you, it's a very good sign. I'm currently in the interviewing process and only recieved interviews at Barry, Ohio, and New York. You'll meet people who were requested an interview at every school and you'll meet others that only had a handful but had great grades. It all depends. It's just a good indication that they are interested in you. Although, I can't say that about Barry. Barry was one wierd place and I'm not the only one that thinks this way. New York, for instance, if you're requested an interview, you're 98% likely to be accepted. I asked the school directly and that is what they told me. So count your interview requests as a blessing and do well on it. Many times, it's the interview that gets you in! -Annie. from IP address 66.169.101.228 |
Caveat Podiatryby JAB (no login)Dear Annie: The podiatry schools practically accept everyone as long as they can sign their lives away via student loans. It is a money making enterprise like most things in the USA. Therefore, caveat emptor. Caveat podiatry. Then you get sued by all those lawyers. Aahh America. from IP address 134.174.1.26 |
What is "weird" about Barry University?by SEI-J (no login)I am traveling to Barry University for an interview and would like if someone who has been there could give me some feedback. from IP address 137.110.170.56 |
BE ADVISED TO ALL THIRD YEAR RESI -DUNCEby TRUEPOD (no login)I enjoy the fact that you think you will aquire a six figure salery.In fishing its called a lure. You foolishly have taken the bait by both your arrogance and inexperience.To much of your dismay You will find that your contract is worthless when it time for dispute.The contract always favors the House.(Even if the perspective pods have there contract reviewed by attourneys)They have the Time, Money, and experiece to legally Jerk you around and defend themself, You dont.Whatever, group you join wether it is a multi specialty, Orthopeadic or Large Podiatry practice.The game is all the same. You will bust your ass a couple of years, grow THEIR practice and when you ask for better hours, vacation time or a raise.Then get ready,and bring you surgilube.Just when you settle in with your life your out. Because, there is always a new Graduate to lure use and abuse and will work for less. That is the inherent nature of the system,for Podiatrists,Family Practice, Ortho etc.However,MD/DO Have far better market to aquire a new job Pods dont.I not speaking about my own experience but other classmates that had the Big Residencies.I suggest to heed the warnings ahead of you,Just because you graduated with honers, and we had great resiency programs, Does no make you Immune.Remember,pride goes before a fall.Addendum,Some of the positive notes you will hear come from people who work for Podiatry Schools or from Apma members,or the lucky second generation podiarist who will inherit his or her practice from mommy or daddy. from IP address 64.12.116.139 |
Funnyby JW (no login)If your medicine is half as bad as your grammar, I'm not exactly surprised that you didn't land a good job. I do, however, know plenty that have. from IP address 12.216.181.157 |
Reading Is Fundamental!by azfootdoc (no login)Hey am I the only one who finds it odd that someone with a graduate degree is unable to spell or for that matter use spell check. And we wonder why individuals in our profession struggle. Just a thought. from IP address 75.0.104.75 |
grammarby pod doc (no login)I used to get upset at the spelling and grammar of the posts on this site. Most mistakes are not excusable, but hey, it's late, I didn't make any money today, and I had too many Natty Lites. It's a reflection of the standards of podiatry schools. How many of your classmates were you less than proud to call "doctor"? from IP address 67.39.203.52 |
EXCELLENT MESSAGE -RESIDUNCESby J.G (no login)Outstanding message. Right on. You work very hard for very little after taxes, building THEIR practice (or THEIR LAB, THEIR "RESEARCH", whatever) then they toss you out or use and abuse you with no help whatsoever from the biased "administrators". You are right on with the fact that there will always be a clueness, heavy in debt, naive graduate who will be willing to work for less, and work hard for other's self grandisement. Heck, it is the American way. The key is to not be lured into podiatrics or any field that requires a 6 figure loan debt that is non forgiven by bankruptcy. There are SO MANY other jobs and real careers that offer much better pay, lifestyle, and well being than playing with feet and the liability to be sued for wiping your nose incorrectly. Heck, ask for time off, or to be paid the going rate---and you're outta there. Period. Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad and invest-- forget being someone's employee to be used and abused. from IP address 134.174.248.70 |
Re:excellent Message-RESIDENCIESby Annie (no login)It's called MEDICINE. Get used to it or get out. That simple. Everyone who walks into medicine knows that you're gonna be in debt, you'll be sued at least once in your life, and that liability is high. That's the medical field. If you just now realized it, welcome aboard. You don't get into podiatry or medicine for the money. Thanks for stating the obvious. from IP address 138.237.241.241 |
Podiatric Responseby J.G. (no login)And that's why people are leaving "medicine" and "podiatry." Much better ways to have a quality life and not work so hard for so little or getting a bogus suit from a sleazy lawyer. from IP address 134.174.248.70 |
Podiatry Student Loansby KO (no login)Since I'm over 130K in podiatry loan debt, can youplease help me pay the $1385.34/month student loans? Thanks. Realized it wasn't gonna be easy---but no one knew if would be this hard either. Welcome to podiatry. from IP address 134.174.157.213 |
Aspring Podiatristby sandy (no login)What is the median salary a podiatrist makes per year? from IP address 165.155.128.131 |
gross versus netby pod (no login)Just a word to the wise Ms. Sandy. PLEASE make sure that you subtract a minimum of 2K from any monthly salary figure that you receive. Unless you are already loaded, podiatry will likley cost you 2K/month in student loan fees. Thus an average salary is 100K-24K student loans = 76K in REAL MONEY. Is it worth 10 years of hard work to make 76K? Only you can decided this. Handy Rules of Thumb (Toe) for a podiatry career Owning a practice is good. Working as an employee is bad Knowing residency directors is good. Good grades may not be. Big cities are bad. Rural areas with lots of cows are good Herpes may someday have a cure, but student loans are forever Humility is a big plus (for cutting toenails), a doctor ego is not. A sense of humor is good.... for the times you are broke but still working your tail off Marriage and family is bad. Single lifestyles with old cars and a studio apartment is good Good luck. My opinions only from IP address 67.22.112.164 |
RE: Gross vs netby Its hard out here for a Pod pimp (no login)This person is obviously a loser pod. First of all the average pod salary is 130K not 100K. Next, less take of taxes at 35% (worse case senerio) and we get 85K net. I owe about 120K, and i am in no hurry to pay it off if it means i must live like a student to pay off that debt. I pay only 800 bucks a month. Only a loser thinks about paying of debt rapidly. A true business man saves his money on something that will make him money, ie a practice. Thus while you are a petty employee putting someone elses kids through college and paying down your student loan, I will be going further in debt, because it takes money to make money. I'll make a bet with you, that is that i bet i'll pay off my practice, home, corvettee, and student loans off before you even pay half of your student loan being someone's female dog. Good luck, make sure your loans dont get a late fee you dont want to tarnish you great credit rating. from IP address 64.233.238.54 |
Truth Hurtsby pod (no login)Dear Pimp, I have been in PRIVATE PRACTICE podiatry for a decade and have seen plenty of snot-noses likes yourself go bankrupt. (of course, they weren't able to discharge those studnet loans haha) I actually have faith that you might be one of the lucky ones that pulls off a practice and survives. (You seem to have the balls) That being said, lose the corvette idea immediately if you have any brains. What you don't understand is that one of the main insurance payors (medicare) is freezing reimbursement due to the rapidly increasing number of beneficiaries. (Have you heard of the baby boom) Thus, I predict that within 10 years, only the practices with very low debt loads will survive this difficult practice environment. Let me make it simple... get rid of student loan debt, business debt, and personal debt as quick as you can. LIVE BELOW YOUR MEANS to accomplish this. from IP address 67.22.112.164 |
Re: Aspring Podiatristby footologist (no login)to get a real, unbiased answer to your question, i suggest you to to bls.gov, the bureau of labor statistics website. there you can read about the average salaries for podiatrists listed by regional/ metropolitan area. i would also refer you to apma young members report that came out earlier this year on earnings of podiatrists in first 5 years of practice, again by geographic area. from IP address 63.212.166.178 |
Podiatry "pay"by AV (no login)Depends, some make 45K before taxes, others get 85K before taxes, many work 50-65 hours week. Therefore, podiatry pay is not good. Go into another more legitimate field. Thank you. from IP address 134.174.248.70 |
NBPME Exams Part IIby Student (no login)Hi, Can anyone tell me what they have been using as sources for studying for boards part II??? I have taken it for the third time and dont feel too good about it. I have studied pocket and presby down to the details. I'm not sure what else I should be studying from IP address 198.208.251.24 |
boardsby DrToes (no login)Hi, I can identify with your frustration. I graduated years ago & never pursued the professsion. But, I also failed twice on Boards Part 2. Passed Part 1 1st time, & that is supposed to be the hard one. I have decided that I will not take them again, unless I go through a residency program 1st. Maybe the hands on for me is missing, been out of school a while. I studied the following: 1. Presby ( old edition, you may have a newer one)...book is so worn out. 2. Pod Med Pearls, by Kushner 3. Foot & Ankle Secrets 4. Foot Fuction ( biomechanics) I am as lost as you. Though I am not in practice, family members & friends will ask me what is wrong when their foot is bothering them. Although I never treated them, one time I sent my sister to the ER. I NEVER missed a diagnosis yet. Even the resident knew less then I did at the ER, he had a list of everything possible for my sister. Just so happend my sister was friends with the attending & introduced us. He asked me my opinion & handed me the resident list of 10 diff daignosis. I nailed it right on the head. PT entrapment. He asked me what I would do & I was right, Injection, Dexamethose. So, I feel i know my stuff, but I will not waste any more money that I do not have. Do you need Boards to graduate? We had to take them, but not pass Part 2, need ed to pass Part 1 though. ( money making scheme we figured) I was once told that I was overstudying....to much material. Maybe that is right, I do not know If you would like to talk about this, maybe we can get in touch with each other. Good Luck, Dr Toes from IP address 70.230.38.120 |
Re: NBPME Exams Part IIby Anonymous (no login)study Hershy. It has it all except for questions on law, internal med,epidemeology, and community medicine. from IP address 68.173.147.218 |
Re: NBPME Exams Part IIby (no login) would you please let me know if you pass it this time? from IP address 68.212.185.124 |
Barry interviewby Annie (no login)Hello Everyone, I recently received a request for an interview at Barry University. If anyone has any comments about their interview experience there or any other comments in general, I would greatly appreciate that. My other question is, how likely is one to be accepted with a request for an interview? I received the e-mail the same day I turned in my application on-line and that made me a bit worried because I do not have the best science GPA AND MCAT. I know it's hard to tell, but some podiatry schools I've spoken to have told me that when they request an interview, you are basically in. Is this the same case with Barry? Thank you for your time. -Annie. from IP address 138.237.144.56 |
Re:Barry Interviewby Annie (no login)Well, nevermind about Barry. I had the interview and doesn't look like I'll get in. They were so unprofessional. I sit down and she apologizes that she is NOW just looking at my application. What a waste of my time and money. I do, however, have interviews at Ohio and NY.If anyone has info/experience on that, it would be appreciated. I heard the acceptance rate if you're interviewed at NY is quite high. Is Ohio the same? Thanks. -Annie. from IP address 68.184.176.220 |
barryby (no login)I interviwed at Barry on 3/13 and I really enjoyed the experince. Coming from chicago the weather was beautiful there and they also have dpm/mba program which i am interested in. After my interview the lady told me i was accepted as long as i complete physics 2 and get an acceptable score on the mcats. I interviwed with four others and I do not know what happened to them, I was the first one interviwed and left afterwards. from IP address 75.4.79.18 |
ehlers danlos syndrome and hammertoesby (no login)I am a 42 yr old woman with EDS. I have severe hammertoes and bunions. I had 3 (2 one foot & 1 on the other) bunionectomies with no positive result over 20 yrs ago. I am curious about procedures done now for hammertoes. Mine are very bad - terrible pain and corns on the tops of toes. Even socks or house slippers are painful, never mind how shoes feel. What is the procedure and is it possible for someone with EDS to have positive results? I would appreciate any information. Thank you. from IP address 69.11.158.148 |
regarding podiatry careerby Avi Kumar (no login)I am looking for a career in podiatry and should be able to get into school with my grades. I live in Chicago and plan to practice here. I was wondering if someone could be some honest information about this profession because I have been reading many contradicting information on this site. Is podiatry and good career and will I be able to eventually make a decent salary. I would also like to know on average what is the starting salary for a podiatrist just coming out of residency. Please give me some factual information because I am really considering this career after i had a job shadow experience with a podiatrist. At that time I did not ask him about the salary issue because I just assumed podiatrist had a decent living. from IP address 69.211.98.142 |
a kumar dpmby cma (no login)Podiatry can be a good career. It wasn't for me, because I never really wanted to be a podiatrist. I fell into it. Why do you want to be a podiatrist? If the answer is to make a lot of money, then maybe yes and maybe no. The february issue of Podiatry Management {Feb 2006} has a survey on podiatry income. The survey shows average net income for a pod in the midwest to be around $109,000. This is,I assume, not a taxable income. [i.e. after mortgage deductions and SEP or 401k contibutions] So it represents a figure of gross receipts minus business expenses. It's net profit from a business. Now, keep in mind, there are podiatrists in chicago who make a lot of money aand there are podiatrists who do poorly. I suggest you get a copy of the magazine from a pod you know. Do you know any pods? I stated that podiatry wasn't a good career for me, but I should say that I grossed over $400,000 in my second year of practice(opening cold) in 1992. So financially it was ok for me. And enjoyable in many ways, but unfulfilling in some critical aspects. Do you really want to be a "real doc"? If so, pursue that, even if it means going to Europe or the Caribbean for med school. If you have a good grasp of podiatry and are 100% committed to the career then the best of luck to you! Obtain the best training you can. Back to the survey, I think they should have given median income results, since the low end has a definte limit (0) and the mean could be skewed by those pods in a good pipeline who do make $500,000 a year. Also I was surprised by the low numbers, I would have guessed that the averagr pod made about $130,000 or $140,000. Just a guess. lastly, let me point out that if you have to borrow $140,000 or more to attend pod school only to make $109,000 yearly, then do a careful analysis and decide if it is in your best interests. If you really want to be a pod I say go for it. If you think that it will make you rich be careful from IP address 12.207.76.79 |
My 2 cents!by azfootdoc (no login)I think if you review the facts you will find that infact both APMA's and PM Magazine's salary survey's denote figures in terms of median income. FYI from IP address 75.0.104.75 |
Re: regarding podiatry careerby Ilizarob (no login)First of all, you are on the wrong forum if you are seeking objective information. In fact, let me take a step further, unless it comes from a source with credentials, the internet is not your best form of info. Now, if you come on this forum occasionally for entertainment, like me, then you are at the right place. Your best bet would be to personally talk to as many pods as you can and get a good feel of what like as a pod is like. I personally have yet to talk a pod who does not make a good living or does not like what they do. Good luck. from IP address 64.17.194.43 |
chicago practiceby pod (no login)Unless you have the resources to buy a practice, I would strongly recommend against attempting to practice in the Chicago area. You must understand that Chicago has an large number of podiatrists due to the fact that it has a podiatry school. I think you would have a much more successful career in a more rural area of Illinois. I picked a place to practice that has very few podiatrists and I am still struggling very hard to keep the doors open. I would not want to find out how difficult it would be in a competitive environment. However, don't let me stop you from doing what you want with your life. Just don't say you weren't warned. from IP address 67.22.112.164 |
Please Stay Awayby av (no login)Do NOT enter a "profession" wrought with low pay, no loan repayments, inconsistent "training", the dubious distinction of DPM-----it's 2006 and the medical establishment and lay public still have NO clue what "degree" means or what we do. For $140000 in student loans that you CANNOT bankrupt--go into a more legitimate career in which you can eat, provide shelter, and clothe yourself and have some modicum of respect in the real world instead of a glorified pedicurist/pseudo-orthopod. People can vehemently respond to they are blue in the face: rhea ipsa loquitor (the thing speaks for itself) LATIN. from IP address 69.16.84.33 |
noneby anon (no login)I practiced for 14 years until 2004, I am now in another profession and I don't even tell anyone that I'm a pod. from IP address 67.39.192.115 |
What did you go into?by Dr. D. (no login)In your post you stated that you went into another profession after practicing for 14 years. What did you go into after podiatry, and why did you make the switch? How did you make your decision to leave podiatry? from IP address 67.175.187.45 |
to Dr D.by anon (no login)I am an insurance agent, and I did it to pay the bills. from IP address 67.39.203.52 |
why I quitby anon (no login)I practiced in the magical "rural area" with no competition. Also, no patients. Managed care took away the best paying patients, and the annual reductions in Medicare reimbursement meant I was working for peanuts. They say doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is a sign of insanity. I chose to maintain my sanity. from IP address 67.39.203.52 |
Good informationby Bill (no login)Hello Avi, I am currently pursuing the podiatry career path and am excited about its prospects. For reliable information from students and practitioners in the field, I recommend that you check out the Student Doctor Network forums. There is a great forum for Podiatry-DPM. These threads are very active and contain very little of the trolling/negativity found here. Good luck. from IP address 172.193.244.128 |
Re: regarding podiatry careerby mellerdpm (no login)There is a future in podiatry. I would be concerned in your situation if you were going to stay in Chicago. No data to back it up but in the cities where schools are located it is more difficult to make a good living due to a higher concentration of podiatric physicians. The same can be said for the Cleveland area. I live in the south, and did very well my first year as an associate and was fortunate to buy in my second year. from IP address 208.63.255.226 |
Go do sometthing elseby CaffeinFreak (no login)My friend bought into a Starbucks and the store does 1.2M a year in net sales before taxes. Yep. about 3200 a day and It's been open just two years!! No residency, no medicare, no malpractice insurance, no student loans. Just good ol' fashioned American business and lots of yuppies doing the Starbucks thing with CASH in their pockets. And these guys are living, having a ball, but if you read their posts on the starbucks forum... well it isn't quite like the podiatry forum! from IP address 68.155.165.54 |
Re: regarding podiatry careerby Annie (no login)then you really need to go back and ask your podiatrist that you shadowed. This particular forum will give you both sides of the tail and there is no way of knowing who is legitimate. Unfortunately, too many hopeful podiatrists flock here and are discouraged by bitter people who have nothing better to do but post bogus information. So go and get your own facts rather than relying on this forum. Salary all depends on how many hours you work, what you do, where you do it, etc. There are lots of variables. Like any job, it's what you make of it. -Annie. from IP address 138.237.144.56 |
Bogus Info??by B.G. (no login)Bogus info=reality Bogus info=the truth 150K in student loans with NO way out No one knows what a DPM is Bogus,, I think not. from IP address 134.174.157.69 |
Re: regarding podiatry careerby Annie (no login)There are all sorts of people who come to these forums, which may or may not be legitimate. I think your best bet is to do what I did...call the schools and ask them personally. Since you will be shadowing a podiatrist, ask them where they see the business 10 years from now. People here will give positive or negative remarks. So be careful what you read. Personally, from the podiatrist I shadowed and people I've spoken with who are in podiatry school...it is going places. It all depends on what you will do with what you have. So, go call the schools, request brochures, etc. I currently have 3 interview requests and couldn't be more thrilled about it. Best wishes to you. -Annie. |