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We tell the truth, Charlton.

by Anonymous (no login)

Keep reading here, Charlton. What we write is nothing that other DPMs think about. Even your "administrator" thinks about these things.

The point is, that we write about them in order to inform and hopefully, some will take action.

But, that is like herding cats.

Things will get better ONLY when Podiarists can organize. And, that will never happen. Too much competetive drive and frank hatred exists.

Posted on Jun 13, 2003, 1:45 AM
from IP address 67.26.42.136

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More very bad news

by Anonymous (no login)

Why is this Forum "negative"?

It is a free forum and the hundreds and thousands of DPMS who are doing great can also post here.

It is "negative" as it is the Truth. Nobody has problems with it except the 4th year students.

With the Rx Drug Bill for Medicare, watch our Medicare checks drying up. Watch the newspapers and listen to the newshows. The RX money is coming out of our checks.

After all , the "rich" doctors can afford it.

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 10:40 PM
from IP address 67.249.67.71

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New Doc

by Charlton Woodly DPM (no login)

What people call negativity on this forum may just be ones experience with Podiatry. Although, I am 100% sure some of the posters on this forum are imposters and others post under different names in order to get their points across.
I am a recent graduate of NYCPM and I will be the first to tell you that its scary out there. The DPM degree doesnt give you the options that a MD or even a DO can give. A new Pod is generally in the $100-200 thousand educational debt range(we pay more than most MDs). When we leave residency the avg salary is a little more than the taxes on what a new MD makes.
I agree one should not get into a profession for only finacial reasons, but realistically many of us will have other people depending on us. The money becomes a big issue when that happens.
I must admit I can see the potential this field has to offer. Although, I can also see the potential for finacial ruin.
I would stress to all Pod wannabes and Pod students, become active politically and learn the business aspects of podiatry as early as possible.
Even If you do this I still cant assure you that you will be sucessful because I havent reached that level yet. Although, I can assure you that it will give you a running start.
For the first time that I can recall at our graduation rehearsal one of our administrators told us that all of us would not be sucessful.It really shocked me because I have never heard a administrator say that before. He did say the majority of us would be sucessful though so that helped a little bit. The point I am trying to make is Podiatric finacial success is not a given and one must be aware of that before you enroll in one of the schools.
On the positive side our training is continuing to get better. There are more surgical residency programs out there for us. More people and hospital staff know who we are and what we do. Our scopes of practice are becoming more and more even with the amount of training we undergo. Last APMA survey sited a rise in net income.
Ill admit Im scared because I just dont know what the future holds. I am also cautiously optimistic because I see the potential Podiatric Medicine has.
Good Luck
Charlton Woodly DPM

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 9:57 AM
from IP address 141.150.48.182

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Re: New Doc

by Anonymous (no login)

Charlton,

I wonder why you were "shocked" when the administrator reported the simple truth and reality.

Were you "shocked" that he admitted it late in the game?

When did he first find out that Podiatrists will fail in this profession? And, why didn't he tell the students when he found that out?

Isn't there integrity in this great profession of ours? Does the teacher, administrators, etc have a ficuciary responsibility to tell the truth?

Well, Charlton, the truth is much closer to what the
"doom and gloomers" say that what your Administrator has said.

And, now, let us tell you something more. More Podiatrists will fail regardless of the training. It is in the Drug Bill in Congress now. That money is coming out of the Doctor's checks. Like it or not, Congress is voting on this HUGE Bill without even reading it.

It is $400Billion over 10 years. Yeah. It will be like Medicare and be 10% of what it ultimately will become.

Watch it, Young Podiatrists. Your Future is being voted away in Washington DC, right now.

Right now.

Right now.

Right now.

Posted on Jun 13, 2003, 1:42 AM
from IP address 67.26.42.136

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Re: Re: New Doc

by Anonymous (no login)

Thank you for the positive vibes.I can feel the hope of sucess and happyness you have for us new guys.
Thanks
Sarcasitically yours
C. Woodly DPM

Posted on Jun 15, 2003, 9:22 AM
from IP address 141.150.48.182

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Sometimes the truth hurts.

by (no login)

Dr. Woody, sometimes the truth hurts. There are a lot of negatives, and they have to be faced.

The anonymous poster is probably right: we are going to be the ones forced to pony up our own hard-earned cash to pay for this new Medicare prescription drug benefit. Congress has no intention of infusing the program with new billions to cover it. Why should they? We--DPMs, MDs, DOs, etc.--have shown them that they can bully us whenever they like, in whatever way they like. They push us, we stumble back. They push us again, we stumble back again. They push us harder, we stumble back further. They slap us, we cower. We never hit back.

There are a lot of awful things to be faced in health care right now. And unfortunately this prescription drug benefit act is likely to be one of them. Senior citizens are less than 10% of our population, but consume over half of all health care services dispensed each year. Medicare already pays pennies on the dollar for those medical services received by senior citizens, this in the richest nation in the world, one that in fact can afford to pay usual, customary and reasonable for those same services.

Most podiatrists have very heavy Medicare patient loads, so we're more sensitive than most other specialists to the cuts, fines, and general jacking-around that Congress does with Medicare fees and program rules. If the final bill voted in by them pays for the prescription drug benefit by slashing physician fees, a whole lot of podiatrists are going to hurt very, very badly for a very, very long time. A whole lot of podiatrists are going to find themselves in a very bad way financially, and many will not survive. The most vulnerable of all are the new DPMs.

The anonymous poster has merely pointed out a very big problem we are facing. Responding with sarcasm is hardly productive. So what if the poster isn't being "positive"? That's just realistic--there's nothing particularly positive about the situation. Going all Norman Vincent Peale right now isn't going to accomplish anythilng. Instead of arguing over whether the glass is half full (positive thinking) or half empty (negative thinking), how about we all just face reality--it's half a glass, when we've earned a full one, and there is no justification for giving us less than what we have earned. Or for taking more away from us to pay for promises made by others.

Let the negative posters--anonymous or otherwise--post all they want. They identify real problems and make good points. They don't HAVE to give us the solutions. We can do that ourselves, together. So instead of slinging barbs at each other for being "negative" by pointing up real problems facing our profession, or real flaws within our profession that negatively affect so many practitioners, why don't we instead divert that energy into solving the problems and eradicating those flaws?

It's time we stopped putting up with Congress and private payers robbing us to profit themselves. When the bullies push us this time, we need to push back--hard! That's the only way to deal with bullies. In the short run it will admittedly negatively affect our patients, which is the usual excuse used to justify doing nothing, but in the long run wresting control of health care back away from Congress and insurance companies is in the best interests of those same patients and will benefit them AND us far more. And let's face facts here: our patients are a big part of the problem. Most of them don't really give a hoot how we are affected, so long as they keep getting promised more freebies and more goodies at somebody else's expense. (Usually OUR expense, in the case of health care.)

John L. Trench III, DPM
Terre Haute, Indiana
LimbPresMan01@aol.com

Posted on Jun 25, 2003, 5:15 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Why did you get into this profession?

by Todd Rice (no login)

Wow. I truly believe I have run the emotional gamut while reading some of the posts in this forum. I feel that perhaps many of the people who post here have lost sight of what they are why they do it. The following may sound quite cliche, but I feel is sums up what Podiatry should be about.
I got into Podiatry because I truly enjoy helping people. I feel it is important not to lose sight of that. I also hope that we all got into this profession soley because of that and not money. Don't get me wrong, I want to earn a good living. I realize we all have large student loans and will ulimately incur more loans of one type or another. However, my goal in life is not a mountain of gold. Nor do I believe that there should be some monetary figure that sets the standard for judging success or failure in Podiatry or any other profession for that matter. I also find it hard to believe that the majority of Podiatrists are struggling to the point of starvation or bankruptcy as many of the posts I have read seem to infer. If someone else can make a decent, honorable living in Podiatry, why can't anyone else? There is more than enough opportunity out there and I don't need to be in practice for "X" years to make such a statement. If there is not enough opportunity where you live, move.
I have been working full or part-time in emergency medicine for the last eight years of my life(including the past four years of Podiatry school)for a local ambulance service. I make a little over nine dollars an hour; with eight years of experience that is it. I could have left for another job, but I chose not to because I enjoy what I do. The same holds true for choosing Podiatry as my profession. Prior to attending Podiatry school, I worked full-time for one year and had a net income of just over 13K and lived fairly comfortably. I can easily complain that CNA's in nursing homes make more than me, but you won't hear me say that. Nor will I complain that MD's or DO's make more than DPM's. Call me naive, but I believe you only get out what you put in. Furthermore, by completing Podiatry school, one should not feel entitled to making the "national average" of 130K or whatever it is. Go out and work your ass off for it! I am sure it can be done!

Posted on Jun 9, 2003, 2:12 AM
from IP address 204.168.12.56

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Re: Why did you get into this profession?

by Anonymous (no login)

It must feel good to state what you did but while i respect your "feelings", what you said is childish.

Posted on Jun 9, 2003, 11:37 PM
from IP address 67.248.251.16

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Childish

by Formerly TUSPM Student, Peter Johnson D.P.M. (no login)

I hardly think what Dr. Rice states is "childish". I happen to share his view of the profession. It is a mature view, much more mature than that vast majority of views espoused on this site. I graduated with Todd and know he's an extremely hard worker, personable, and does not complain. He'll do great in this profession. Good luck Todd. And Anonymous, maybe now you can tell us you name.

Pete

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 3:16 PM
from IP address 204.186.88.4

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It's not about the $

by who cares, good 4u (no login)

Student Doctor Rice,
You are fundamentally correct, it is not about the $. We all joined this profession to help those in need and provide medical care. The problem with the field you and I have chosen, is that we are also a business minded profession.
Most practitioners are in private practice. Which means you operate a business. Businesses don't pay their expenses with acts of good deeds. Sure, indirectly you may. You may give a PF injection with great relief to your patients, but this is a service, which you should be compensated for. How much?? That is usually not up to you, but to insurance companies.
Ethically, you are correct, and I applause your good will towards others, but don't be fooled, this is a business first. I believe you may be fooling yourself. We all are in this field for the money, directly or indirectly. You would not assume 100,000 plus debt for a 8 dollar an hour job. You do expect to be paid for your "expert" services.
Therefore, it is about the money, and if its not, you will go under because in a business, its all about the profit margin and the cash flow.
Sincerly,
who cares, good 4u

Posted on Jun 10, 2003, 10:02 AM
from IP address 192.35.79.70

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13K a year

by J. Anderson (no login)

Where you are living comfortably in the US on 13K a year??

Posted on Jun 10, 2003, 2:40 PM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Re: 13K a year

by Todd T. Rice (no login)

J Anderson...in a very small, very depressed old coal-mining community. Put it this way, my high school friend just bought a row home for 12k...and the odd thing about that is it is a pretty nice place. Wonder how much overhead a practice would cost...

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 11:12 PM
from IP address 66.212.43.131

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How about $16K/yr after income tax?

by Anonymous (no login)

Last year, I grossed $55K after overhead and income tax I made $16K. Today's podiatry students don't believe this, but it is reality. BTW I struggle week to week just to pay my bills and don't take any holidays because I can't afford them.

Posted on Jun 13, 2003, 10:11 AM
from IP address 209.82.51.73

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Altruism vs. The Real World

by Anomalous (no login)

I think you're missing the main point regarding many of these "negative" posts.

I'm leaving podiatry in two months and starting osteopathic medical school. I've been at it for 3 years and see no hope at all. Do you really think I would go through this again just to make more money?

I'm leaving podiatry for the following reasons:

1. My "training" was pathetically inadequate and left me with no skills to make a living (note: I said "make a living", not "make a mountainous heap of money"). I am one of the unfortuate many who did not secure sufficient residency training after graduation through no fault of my own (3.6 GPA, spotless attendance, great personality, etc.). Therefore, because of the embarassing system of podiatry, I am now 179k in debt and can basically cut nails and calluses and do partial nail avulsions. Yee-haw.

2. Podiatry is disappearing as a viable medical specialty.

3. Even if I wanted to leave my current impacted area to seek employment elsewhere, I would fail. First, there are no jobs to be had. Second, I have virtually no skills or unusual talents to offer any legitimate practice group. I could also never be able to save up enough money to survive the inevitable lean months that would occur during my transition.

4. I am truly embarassed to be a part of this profession. The thought that these schools can charge what they do and not at least assure you of adequate residency training causes bile to rise from my gut. Where else does this happen? I swear, I can't think of one single profession that offers post-graduate training that would not be uniform and adequate. I'm still considering a class-action lawsuit. You might laugh but my wife is an attorney and I already have several highly disgruntled DPM's who are interested. Maybe (and I mean maybe) this year the graduates will all have at least one year of surgical training. But, you know what? This still won't assure them of squat. There still aren't any jobs out there. Also, the APMA/schools never have and never will level with prospective students on just how difficult it is to find gainful employment.

5. Podiatry is oftentimes ridiculed in popular culture and generally thought of as a pseudo-medical profession. When was the last time you saw podiatry portrayed in a positive light on television or in film? (20/20 expose a few years back, Seinfeld episode, Golden Girls episode, the current movie out "The In-Laws"). I didn't spend untold years toiling away at my pre-med courses, studying for the MCAT, suffering through 2 years of didactic misery and 2 years of bogus clinicals + 6 months of nails, calluses and ingrowns and 6 months of actual medicine to be thought of as a half-ass wannabe doctor. I'm forever defending podiatry and the education to practically everyone I meet. I'm done with it.

6. None of my colleagues from my class who I keep in touch with are making even an adequate living. One of them just e-mailed me today and asked if I could use her part-time (she at least has a PPMR/PSR, but still can't find work. She's been out of residency for 3 years). Two of them quit the first year and are working in a totally unrelated field.

7. My last two years of podiatry school were nothing less than a sham. I spent something like 80k for both years only to further sit on my ass in the third year listening to repetitive lectures and pretty much waste the fourth year driving around to each mostly b.s. externship. On one externship in AZ, I observed one hip surgery during the entire month. That was it. The DPM kept telling me that he was too busy (he didn't want me to see his own patients or be in the O.R. with him). He advised that I call around town to see if any docs would mind if I tagged along. No kidding. Another month in Anaheim was almost as bad. I spent two days a week with the "director" going to house calls and nursing homes to trim bucket-fulls of nails and calluses to fatten up his wallet. Oh yeah, and he didn't have any surgical priveleges because he failed to update his license. That was helpful. The other days were spent farting around with one of the residents and seeing maybe about 6 patients. The only productive month that I had was with (surprise) a dermatology rotation. This would be real medicine. And, if you're wondering, I complained vociferously in several letters to my school. Guess what? Nothing happened. They were still functioning residencies last I heard.

7. Podiatry has no means of loan repayment through the government.

8. Podiatry is the #1 most fraudulent medical specialty. You will always be under suspicion.

9. You cannot return to school and become a different type of doctor. You are a podiatrist and will always be a podiatrist.

10. Podiatric biomechanics is voodoo medicine (my opinion).

11. Since my school went bankrupt and joined forces with a vocational college, they lost all of my personal information (my vaccinations, etc.). This meant that I had to be re-vaccinated all over again before I could go to real medical school. I am honestly shocked that they were able to send my transcripts to the right medical school.

12. Whether you want to admit it or not, podiatry school is for people who couldn't get into medical school. I'd rather not live the rest of my life knowing this (ironically, having my DPM probably got me into DO school).

13. I'm angry for some of my classmates who had to take unfunded crap programs because there weren't enough paid ones to go around.

14. I was paid 10k a year as a podiatry resident. The MD residents were paid over 30k. I had to make ends meet by waiting tables on the side. Nice.

15. Being a podiatrist gets you nowhere outside of practicing podiatry. It won't help you get a job as a hospital administrator. It won't help you get a job as a medical technician. It won't help you get a job as an EMT. Nobody knows what to do with a podiatrist. Nobody knows what a podiatrist does nor do they know what your training was. None of the classes transfer to medical school. None. Not even overseas to the risky med schools. That's good respect, huh?

Need I go on?

It isn't because people on this forum are upset because they aren't driving Bentleys. It's not because they can't get a home in the Hamptons. It's everything that I mentioned above. Podiatrists are not offered jobs for the most part. The few that can find a job are usually offered inadequate compensation with few benefits. And, there are a tiny handful who can find good jobs with something like a Kaiser where they can make enough money to live with some benefits.

So, that leaves the vast majority who have been shoved out of the nest with varying skills. So many new DPM's have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to actually make money when you're finished with your education and training. I was one of them. And, having one or more years of surgical training doesn't even help that much. You still have to find a place that needs you. Believe me, it isn't easy.





Posted on Jun 10, 2003, 3:26 PM
from IP address 64.161.170.212

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Integrity and Substance

by J. Anderson (no login)

Thank you for a truthfull, unadulterated, experienced message with a true portrayal of most of podiatry and their "schools."

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 12:53 PM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Good Luck

by Anonymous (no login)

I had a totally different experience with Podiatric medical school and the profession. I am happy, was well trained, and respected by others in medicine. However, I believe your story and know others like you. I think that you may have been unhappy in Podiatry since it appears your main goal all along (although it may have just hit you) was to be a MD or at least a DO. The most disgruntled DPMs (even the successful ones ) that I meet are the ones who always wanted to be an MD and chose podiatry as a second choice. No education, residency,or income would make them happy only the MD degree.
If all you ver wanted to do was be an astronaut and you became a crop duster (not trying to correlate status of MD with astronaut and crop duster with DPM just an analogy) you would make more money( as the crop duster, check astronauts pay grades) still be flying but always feel like you somehow failed.
As far as osteopathy goes, I know many great DOs but many also have a second class feeling deep inside. Why did you not go to allopathic medical school instaed of DO school? Not for philosophy you can do everything that a DO does except the manipulations( and how many still do this anyway) as an MD My guess is for the same reason, you couldn't get in.
Please do yourself a favor and when no one is around ask an MD what they think about DOs you may be surprised. You will not get privileges in some geographic areas and forget about foreign licensure since in most countries like podiatry you can not practice full scope.
You seem bright and will make a great physician be it MD or DO. My only purpose is do not make the same mistake twice. I am only speaking from a true inner reflection of what you want to be not what can you be.
Best of luck!

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 4:25 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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Re: Good Luck

by DO, PhD (no login)

I had a totally different experience with Podiatric medical school and the profession. I am happy, was well trained, and respected by others in medicine. However, I believe your story and know others like you. I think that you may have been unhappy in Podiatry since it appears your main goal all along (although it may have just hit you) was to be a MD or at least a DO. The most disgruntled DPMs (even the successful ones ) that I meet are the ones who always wanted to be an MD and chose podiatry as a second choice. No education, residency,or income would make them happy only the MD degree.

...If you are really a medical doctor, how is it possible that you know that most disgruntled DPMs are people who couldn't get into medical schools? Are you a mind reader? I see the source of frustration coming more from economic issues rather from wanting to be MDs.

If all you ver wanted to do was be an astronaut and you became a crop duster (not trying to correlate status of MD with astronaut and crop duster with DPM just an analogy) you would make more money( as the crop duster, check astronauts pay grades) still be flying but always feel like you somehow failed.

...You are a total IDIOT for equating DPM with the crop dusting profession. One requires 4 years of formal education, the other does not.

As far as osteopathy goes, I know many great DOs but many also have a second class feeling deep inside.

...Again are you a mind reader?

Why did you not go to allopathic medical school instaed of DO school? Not for philosophy you can do everything that a DO does except the manipulations( and how many still do this anyway)

...You admit it yourself, the best of what you can do is at best the same as what I can do, except I can do certain things you cannot. Now who's the one with inferiority complex?

as an MD My guess is for the same reason, you couldn't get in.

...Another idiotic assumption.

Please do yourself a favor and when no one is around ask an MD what they think about DOs you may be surprised.

...I am an internal med PGY-1 at an allopathic medical school based program. During my travel to residency interviews at allopathic programs, I've met many chief residents and attendings who were DOs so please don't tell me the BS about how MDs feel about DOs. However you or other old farts may feel about us, you haven't been able to affect what we want to do in our career so save your breath because the Berlin wall is down.

You will not get privileges in some geographic areas and forget about foreign licensure since in most countries like podiatry you can not practice full scope.

...What geographic area will DOs not get staff privilege? Name one. Otherwise save your unsubstantiated BS.

You seem bright and will make a great physician be it MD or DO. My only purpose is do not make the same mistake twice. I am only speaking from a true inner reflection of what you want to be not what can you be.
Best of luck!

..."seem"? What a patronizing tone you have to assume to know what would be and what would not be a mistake for this individual? I will chalk it up to your idiotic arrogance whether your are a DPM or MD.

DO/PhD

Posted on Jun 13, 2003, 4:47 AM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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I never said I was an MD.

by anonymous (no login)

Read the first paragraph and you'll see I'm a happy DPM. My note was truly a good luck, best wishes message not a slam. With your overreaction and attitude you may never be happy in any career.
Still best wishes my osteopathic friend. In 5 years write back and tell me how many manipulations you are doing since that would be the only reason for choosing a DO over a MD.

Posted on Jun 15, 2003, 6:56 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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$

by a crop duster (no login)

Plus, we(crop dusters) make more money than you (poodiatrists)

Posted on Jun 22, 2003, 12:19 PM
from IP address 63.185.48.21

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DPM to DO

by Anomalous (no login)

If you truly wanted to be a DPM from the "get go" and you were afforded proper training, then you would have no reason to complain. That is, unless you had dreams of making 7 figures. I totally agree with you that the most bitter DPM's are the ones who actually wanted to be MD's or DO's, but didn't get accepted. I've stated time and again to students and wannabe students on this site that you'd better be damn sure it's a DPM that you want to be and not a "doctor".

Thanks for not labeling me a malcontent or a multiple-named poster. I post what I feel and really don't care who's opinions I trample on.

You are also right when you say that my goal all along was to get into MD or DO school (I thought, 10 years ago, that both were acceptable and equivalent). Since I failed to get into either I chose podiatry out of desperation. Mistake. HUGE mistake. I resigned myself to the reality that I wasn't getting any younger (I was 33 when I got accepted to pod school) and I was extremely sick of waiting tables and taking pre-med classes. I also realized that there was little more I could do to make my resume' any more attractive.

Frankly, I was really uncomfortable after the first week of classes. I just didn't feel like I was in medical school. At least the medical school that I imagined. It felt very haphazard and there were many other students who didn't seem 100% ecstatic about being there. As the semester wore on it got even worse. Incompetent professors, rumblings about a lack of residency training, the school becoming insolvent, instructors forever saying things like, "you guys don't need to know this" or, worse, "do you guys need to know this?". As I entered my 3rd year I thought that things might pick up since I was supposed to get into my clinicals. Unfortunately, my 3rd and 4th years only convinced me that podiatry was a sham and that I got duped (though, I know that are others who did not experience this and are perfectly happy with their educations). I pressed on, though, and got outstanding grades. I got solid "A's" in all of my clinics and never missed an assignment. Students often looked to me for answers and information. I was really feeling confident. That is, until CRIP's.

The best descriptions I have for that debacle would be promptly deleted by the webmaster so I'm not going to waste my fingers. Suffice to say that I spent a lot of money that I didn't have and was pimped, ridiculed, humiliated and ignored by a bunch of self-proclaimed podiatry gods. I already hated podiatry by that time, but CRIP's actually dredged up some truly horrible feelings that I never knew existed. I ended up matching with a PPMR (and that came only because the director personally like me and wanted to hang out with me). I think we both know what a PPMR will get you in this day and age. It gets you thinking about changing careers.

I'm sure there are DO's out there who have inferiority complexes. Personally, I think it's ridiculous since there simply isn't any difference between MD's and DO's. DO's can practice any type of medicine in every square inch of the U.S. and, despite what you stated, can practice full medicine just like MD's in many countries (there are only a handful that restrict DO's to manipulation). DPM's can't even transfer a course to a disreputable overseas med school! DPM's cannot practice anything outside of the U.S.! I couldn't even transfer any of my basic science courses to DO school.

I applied to both MD and DO school this time around. I didn't even get an interview at the MD schools I applied to (however, it must be said that I only applied to extremely competitive schools...UCLA, USC and UC San Francisco). The fact is that DO schools have a big interest in admitting older students with real life experiences. MD schools do not. And, if you're thinking that there is a huge disparity in the average GPA's and MCAT's, that isn't true either. It's quite miniscule. Statistically insignificant. DO's also can opt to take the USMLE in addition to or in lieu of the COMLEX when they are in their 4th year. All said, DO's have all of the same rights and responsibilites as MD's and can practice in all disciplines of medicine (the chief medical officer of the U.S. Army is a DO).

And as far as what some MD's might think of DO's?? I couldn't give a rat's gluteus what they think! I'll take on any MD intellectually or any other way they want it (that is, when I'm finished). Hell, I held my own quite well in the 6 months of medicine I did as a pod resident.

I appreciate your thoughts and thank you for the good wishes. I only hope that my marriage survives!

Posted on Jun 13, 2003, 5:27 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.136

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I'm happy for you!

by anonymous (no login)

I am sorry your experience with podiatry has not been the same as mine. I do know that if you are not happy and do nothing about it then you're a whiner and spineless.
You are doing something about it and I applaud you. It takes courage to make any career change and I wish you success.
I will always support podiatry because I care deeply about it and have done well within this profession. I work with several DOs who are excellent doctors but a few are frustrated MDs and share some of our discrimination (usually behind their backs). I must disagree about the foreign country assessment since I have lectured and done surgery in several foreign countries and know that DOs are restricted in most. But you put it best when you said who cares. Be the best DO and I wish you success. Your marriage will be fine, people who are logical and have a spouse who supports them when they are not happy are bound to grow old together.

Posted on Jun 23, 2003, 3:09 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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NIce Message, but....

by J. Anderson (no login)

Respect your opinions, however, caring deeply about something such as podiatry really does not solve the serious problems that continually plague this "profession". Until a top to bottom total sweep is performed with people with integrity and a backbone, the status quo will permeate podiatry.

Posted on Jun 30, 2003, 1:02 PM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Dr. Anderson

by Anonymous (no login)

Sir, I work weekly sometimes daily at the local, state, and national levels of this profession to help make change and support our profession. I have done well but have also worked very hard and try to give back as much as possible. I am a member of the APMA, ACFAS, and the ABPS and work from within to correct things I feel need improved and improve things that are good.
Perhaps you should take your own advice!

I applaud the individual who is going to DO school not because he is leaving but of his courage to make such a decision. He discovered he belongs elsewhere and is making the necessary moves to get there. Those who choose to stay should follow this persons example and find what will make them happy or roll up their sleeves and make their careers and the profession work rather than turn every post (if a positive show of support) into a negative issue or discussion.

Perhaps you would make a good DO? Then you can post on their message boards. Naw just wishful thinking on my part!

Posted on Jul 6, 2003, 3:36 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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DO international practice rights

by Anomalous (no login)

There is an active task force solely comitted to gaining full practice rights for DO's around the world. Here's a list that is fairly current.

Unlimited rights for DO's;

Argentina
Austria
Cameroon
Canada
Cayman Islands
Central African Empire
Chile
China
Colombia
Costa Rica
Ecuador
Finland
Germany
Greece
Guyana
Israel
Italy
Liberia
Luxembourg
Micronesia
Nepal
Nigeria
Panama
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Sweden
Tanzania
Taiwan
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam
Zambia

All practice rights denied;

Aruba
Bahamas
Belize
India
Ireland
Malaysia
Mexico
Morocco
Singapore
Spain
Switzerland
Uganda

Manipulation Only allowed;

Australia
Barbados
Bermuda
France
Great Britain
Jamaica
New Zealand
Norway
South Africa
Zimbabwe

Posted on Jun 30, 2003, 3:25 PM
from IP address 216.100.69.208

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My point

by Anonymous (no login)

I wasn't trying to insinuate that DOs do not desrve worldwide privileges and I would guess the poster has no desires to practice in a foreign country. My point was and still is DOs do face some discrimination. In the 80s the had to fight for hospital privileges and most foreign countries would not license them.
They have come a long way politically and from your list internationally.
As far as DPMs this is all encouraging since we are about 20 years behind the DOs but I can remember when getting hospital privileges was almost impossible and now is a given. Some of our grads are working with Ortho practices and I remember when they wouldn't even talk to us. Progress like evolution takes time. Compare Podiatry from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, etc and you would have to be blind as to the rapid progress we have made.
Perhaps in 20 years we will be able to be licensed in Aruba or Lichtenstein. LOL

Posted on Jul 6, 2003, 3:44 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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Good luck

by James (no login)

I am a MD; I have stated this before. I have no gripes with DOs, but often they practice within their own hospitals. The hospital I work at currently has less than 1% DOs. There is a perception amongst my colleagues that the only reason one becomes a DO is because one can get into MD school. Nothing new, but don't get too aggravated down the road.

Posted on Jun 30, 2003, 12:13 AM
from IP address 216.192.153.139

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No kidding

by 3rd year out (no login)

Great post. I only wish I had seen it 10 years ago.

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 6:08 PM
from IP address 204.215.39.55

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Re: Altruism vs. The Real World

by Anonymous (no login)

Do you feel better, now that you have lied once again on this forum? Talk about law suits how bought a nice liable suit against people who are disgruntled and spew constant lies.
You are so out of the loop it's not even funny.
I have responded to your posts many times over the years and I'm really glad you start "Med school" in a few months. I hope you make it as a "real doctor" and God help us all(MD DO and DPM) if you don't.

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 7:14 PM
from IP address 24.73.160.198

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Altruism

by Anomalous (no login)

First, what does this gibberish mean? "Talk about law suits how bought a nice liable suit against people who are disgruntled and spew constant lies". It doesn't even make grammatical sense much less make a point.

I know the truth hurts. I don't blame you for being irrational. There's not a single lie in my entire post. What would I have to gain from lying?

Rather than spew you own baseless whining, why not prove me wrong?

Posted on Jun 18, 2003, 10:08 AM
from IP address 64.167.79.219

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Re: Altruism

by Anonymous (no login)

"What would I have to gain from lying? "
I have no idea why you would lie or exaggerate. In some way maybe it makes you feel better or helps justify your admitted failure in podiatry. Maybe you think it is all "their" fault and none of it rests on your shoulders. I have read your posts here and on the DO boards and your experience is so far from the reality of most of us, I have a very difficult time believing you. Specifically, your comments on your experiences in classes and rotations are totally outrageous in my opinion. I have never heard of such things and I have always talked to other pods at conferences, boards ect... When I was a student I rotated with students from the various schools and again no one ever related such horrible scenerios like the ones you describe.

"Rather than spew you own baseless whining, why not prove me wrong"
I prove you wrong every day when I go to my office which I started from scratch 4 years ago and see 30 patients a day and grossing over 300,000. I prove you wrong when I go to the hospital for a diabetic foot infection consult, I prove you wrong when I receive calls from colleagues to discuss cases and patient managament. My local podiatric collegues prove you wrong when they do the same things i am doing. We are ALL doing very well in the medical community both socially and financially.
I just sat for the boards, none of the pods there were complaining. In fact I think we were complaining a little about the AMOUNT of the work. Oh yea we were also complaining about how hard the exam was, which it was but well worth going through.
I've said this to you before over the years- but I really do wish you good luck and hope you do well. I think you would do better by dropping the disgruntled attitude and move on. How do you think these attitudes you have towards podiatry are going to reflect on you? When you spew such nonsense it makes YOU look bad, not podiatry. So suck it up, move on and become the best DO you can be. AND GET HAPPY for god's sake!!!
seriously good luck.

Posted on Jun 24, 2003, 3:42 PM
from IP address 24.73.160.198

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med school

by anon (no login)

Anomalous, I left the podiatric profession and went to med school.
You are in for the ride of your life. Enjoy.

I remember being a first year stupod and hearing someone refer to us as med students. I disagreed in my heart and was shocked the first time I heard it.

Now, you truly will be a medical student. After the first semester you will realize that credits should not transfer from pod to med school.

I look forward to future posts about your progress.

Posted on Jun 22, 2003, 12:13 PM
from IP address 63.185.48.21

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Here's my way of thinking

by Podman (no login)

Dear Todd,

You seem like a great future doc. I'd love to hire you for double the 13k you are currently making. I will then set you up with multiple nursing homes where you can "help" all those poor folks with their toenails. You can then come into my office and help all kinds of patients. I hope you won't mind that I am making a lot of money off you...after all.. it is all about helping people right?

You see my point, Todd? This is a business. Change your way of thinking quick or in this business you are dead. If you go into this profession like a lamb you will be devoured. Older docs will take advantage of your labor and insurance will bleed you dry. Your beloved patients will fail to pay the bills. They seem to forget so quick that you helped them. Besides, you wouldn't want them to miss out on their cigs and booze, would you todd?

Do you realize that if you can't produce enough income to cover your student loans, the govt will ruin your credit and kick you off medicare?

Do you ever want a family and to be able to feed your children and wife?

Todd, work hard... and learn how to run a business. Never..never confuse altruism with your profession.

P.S. does a mechanic fix a poor person's car for free because the poor person has to get to work?




Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 10:13 PM
from IP address 69.29.58.206

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Response

by Todd Rice (no login)

Hmm. I guess I should try and reiterate my point without being, "childish." I believe that the majority of posts on this forum are childish, but nevermind. I understand we, as Podiatrists, cannot ultimately control the amount of money per service performed. However, we do have some control over the amount of patients we see. This equals a larger bottom line. I also understand that medicine means business. We all need to be business savvy to make ends meet. I am not arguing nor disproving this fact. However, if I just spent four+ years of my life studying to be a Podiatrist and incurred a nice sum of debt, I better make damn sure I am going to do what needs to be done in order to run a successful business/practice. My point is this: I have talked to numerous Podiatrists over the past four years and I ask every one I get into a meaningful conversation with, "If you had to do it over again, would you?" I have yet to hear someone tell me they are disappointed in what they do. Now, I realize my unscientific study may lack validity and may even seem, "childish," but why are there Podiatrists out there doing well? Ask yourself, "Am I in a overly competitive location?", "Am I serving too small a population?", "Do I understand what ICD-9 codes are?," "Or am I a pompus jerk who belittles others in the profession by calling them childish?". My point is, if others can make it in this profession, why can't the naysayers? That is ridiculous. Furtermore, to address the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Podiatry is quite unfair and to quote "anonymous"...childish. You see, such a lawsuit would bring disasterous consequences to the rest of the profession. Podiatrists are finally getting some of the respect thry truly deserve, all we need is this type of negative publicity. I also do not understand why you feel ashamed to be a Podiatrist? I worked damn hard to get where I am, as I am sure you have. The bottom line is, if you get a pt. referred to you by a GP for nail debridement and you sit and establish a rapport with your pt. and get them feeling better (even though what you think you are doing is degrading) they will go back to their GP and thank them. This all can lead to more referrals and a more successful practice. And although I realize that the majority of office visits are routine nail debridement, there is more to it. Are you surgically trained? I realize not all areas get enough surgical patients, so why not relocate? Podiatry school did just what Medical school does...it gives us the basics in medice to get a good, solid residency. Podiatry school, nor medical school for that matter, does not guarantee anyone will earn any amount of money. Such a promise is "childish." I know of a few docs in my area who are absolute idiots and pt.'s run. However, I do not see them making matter public due to teir disappointment or failure, etc. I understand your frustration, but please reconsider the lawsuit. Too many of us have worked too hard for this to become a courtroom bashing. It seems you are on your way to becoming a DO. It sounds like you will be satisfied and, I truly hope, successful. Take you bow and leave in peace. Finally, I must say that I am the one that is embarrassed to see all of my colleagues tearing up our own profession because you did not succeed, regardless of where the fault may lie. This site truly turns my stomach. As I continue in my profession, I think it would be nice to know the names of all the negative writers on this post. I find such to be exceedingly cowardish and definately childish. My last post and definately the last time I log on to this site.
Todd T. Rice, DPM

Posted on Jun 11, 2003, 11:08 PM
from IP address 66.212.43.131

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3rd year out

by Podman (no login)

Dear 3rd year out,

Congrats on surviving for 3 years. I think you have a great chance to make it. I would consider a satelite clinic on some of the feeder communities that your collegues draw from. e.g. get those pts at the source. dont wait for them to come to you. A good place to rent is from a phy. therapy clinic or a primary physician who has a little room. You might be able to rent a day per week for 300 to 500 dollars per month.

I understand you frustration at 150k gross. This would be an adequate amt of money IF you didn't have an equipment loan and a student loan. If you are like me, these loans are taking another 20-30k per year out of your so called net. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if you were only making a true net of 45-50k. Do some of you realize that nurses make that?
Regardless, keep up the work and keep trying new things to promote your practice. Sell yourself everyday!


Posted on Jun 4, 2003, 8:52 PM
from IP address 69.29.57.63

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My Practice Experience Update

by 3rd year out (no login)

Hello All. I am finishing up my 3rd year in solo private practice. Here are my numbers.

Gross income 2002: 153,000
Net Income 2002: 72,000

I performed 5 bunionectomies in 2002, 2 neuroma excision and 13 arthrodesis of toes, 2 EPF, no rearfoot.

I am in a small city 150,000 population with 9 other practicing podiatrists. I am the most well trained of the bunch, but it doesn't translate into cash. It seems the referal patterns are set in stone, lord knows I've tried to suck up!!! LOL.

I haven't been in the OR for 14 weeks, I wonder if I remember which end of the knife to hold!!! LOL.

A senior podiatrist in my town just gave me a nursing home that he was tired of, I really hate nursing homes and swore I would not start going to them, but I need the money. Nursing homes suck big time.

I graduated top 5% of my class, 3.8 gpa... you know the rest. Keep my ears open, mouth shut, easy going, personable. Maybe I should get out of Florida and go to Colorado....

Maybe...

Posted on Jun 1, 2003, 4:30 PM
from IP address 198.70.211.95

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hang in there

by Anonymous (no login)

3rd year:

You are doing fine. The numbers are good. This is not the time to hang it up.

Promote specialty work.

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 1:20 PM
from IP address 67.248.204.247

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Hang in there

by Anonymous (no login)

You sound smart and responsible. With 9 DPMs in a town that size it will take a little longer. If you like it there, stay put. By year 5 your numbers will double and and by year 7 you will need an associate.

Referrals can be a tough nut to crack. Keep eating lunch in the doctors lounge, talk about anything but medicine. Socialize with as many docs, equipment/ drug reps that you can. Go to the hospital social events like ball games, picnics etc. Buy the OR staff lunch once a quarter, make sure people at church know you, help sponsor a little league team. Contribute to and support legislators you believe in.

Bottomline, people will refer if they like you. Unfortunately skill, knowlege mean little to the lay public. If they like you, they will ask their FP if they can go to you. And most nonsurgeons do not understand what makes a good surgeon MD,DO, or DPM. They want their patients happy. If you do do the nursing home, hard as it may be keep a positive attitude. The nurses and staff have foot/ankle problems too and will go to the caring friendly DPM who comes to the home. A nice short, simple letter to the family of the nursing home patient is something they will be shocked to get. How about a small flower or gift for each of those patients on their night stand around the holidays? Marketing yourself is the key. Your skills will be the key once the patients arrive.

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 2:19 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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you have got to be kidding me

by Anonymous (no login)

Most family practice doctors do more surgical rotations than a dpm's will ever do their entire residency. I am not slamming dpm's, but I do want to make the point if you seriously think that FP's don't understand surgery you are sadly mistaken. FP's in fact probably do more surgeries than dpm's be that it may be vasectomies etc, they are well aware of the surgical skills needed. Again, this is nothing against podiatry, just the few that make comments suck as this or the ones that claim that they are better trained than any orthopod. Claims such as these are destroying the already ailing profession of podiatry. Be wise, you never know who will coincidently be reading this forum. It sounds as if podiatry in a whole needs the referrals of orthopods and primary care professionals alike.

Posted on Jun 8, 2003, 12:48 AM
from IP address 64.28.48.168

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You are the one who is kidding

by Anonymous (no login)

Yes, there are family docs who do minor surgery(vasectomies, lesion excisions) and yes they rotate through surgery. I would argue that you(FPs) spend more time than than my residents since our residents scrub in on 3500 cases per annum. They rotate through Ortho, general, plastic, vascular, and OB/GYN surgery. Some take the bypass grafts for our CV people. And many do a portion of the other specialties cases (for example flaps, skin/bone grafts etc. ) Each upon graduation will have performed 600-800 surgeries skin to skin. In addition they actually assist or perform the surgeries. Now this isn't meant to be a slam but my point wasn't that FPs know nothing about surgery but you can not tell me you can assess a post op ankle fusion, bunion repair, tendon transfer as well as someone trained in those procedures. Therefore you can not tell me if it was done correctly or not. That is what I meant that they FPs can not tell if a surgeon who does specialty work is good or bad. All you know is that your patients are happy or not. And please, 50% of my foot pain patients referred by you super generalists are told the have gout or arthritis without any medical proof and are usually wrong.
As for the ortho comment, I'll let that slide since you obviously know little about their training. Some who refer to me admit (with the exception of ankle fractures) they did less than a dozen foot cases in 5 years.
Look I respect FPS I go to one for my medical( not surgical) problems. But no way I am I sending my kids to you for a foot problem. Now if you want to refer to an orthopedist that's your perogative, I get them anyway when they send them to me or for the reconstruction. Again, to be fair there are some good orthos who do excellent foot work. Now find an ortho that will admit that about a DPM. BTW my urologist thinks FPs shouldn't be doing vasectomies better find their web site and slam them.
My experienced opinion....

Posted on Jun 8, 2003, 11:49 AM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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Re: My Practice Experience Update

by Anon (no login)

What school did you go to?

Posted on Jun 3, 2003, 10:15 AM
from IP address 12.91.108.91

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3yo

by anon (no login)

I think your practice numbers show great fiscal discipline. If the total gross collections are $153,000 and your line 35 on form 1020 IRS is $73,000, then I predict that eventually you will do OK at this location. Line 35 is adjusted gross income, after business expenses and other front page deductions.

At that point you would still have itemized deductions, mortgage interest, charitable contributions, property taxes, deductions for health insurance.

If this $73,000 is line 41--taxable income, then I am amazed.

Regardless, I don't think a population of 150,000 can support 10 pods, unless you have a very large draw from adjacent, underserved communities. Not too likely in FLA.

I believe a ratio of population to podiatrist should be about 50,000:1. Many may disagree, and I've heard some people espouse that a P:P of 5,000:1 is all that is required. Nationally the ratio is around 15,000:1. Correct me if I am wrong.

Incidentally, when I practiced, I was the sole podiatrist for a service area of 7000 square miles (halving the distances between the 4 closest pods NSEW and the product of the sums (N+S)(E+W)} which included a 400,000population for a P:P of 400,000:1.

Look for the best opportunity. Podiatry is a profession where you have to maximize every advantage. Even if that means moving to alabama or iowa or colorado or texas or wherever the winds will take you.

Posted on Jun 6, 2003, 12:31 PM
from IP address 63.185.33.22

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4 years out after residency

by Jim Mann (no login)

I am 4 years out with a 3 year residency from New England. My takehome after taxes was $59000. Much of my practice is primary podiatry, little surgery. THe surgeries I do are mostly bunions and hammertoes similar to the third year note.

Posted on Jun 6, 2003, 4:41 PM
from IP address 134.174.244.81

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Taxes

by anonymous (no login)

Everyone pays taxes. Even the supposed drug rep making 124,000(before taxes). What was you net before taxes? My guess it is atleast 75-80,000. By year 6 it will be well over 6 figures. If you do little surgery then that's not bad considering the average DPM makes 130,000 net before taxes.

Posted on Jun 7, 2003, 3:09 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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U will struggle as a DPM.

by Anonymous (no login)

Why do we not tell the truth?

Even if only a minority of DPMs post on this forum, isn't there a sufficient warning?

Posted on May 30, 2003, 7:40 PM
from IP address 216.160.121.208

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AMA: MEDICARE FORCAST GLUM

by AMA NEWS (no login)

Medicare payment outlook is dismal

Scarce dollars mean that a boost for rural doctors would hurt other physicians, and relief from next year's expected pay cut will be tough to get.
By Markian Hawryluk, AMNews staff. June 2/9, 2003.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington -- Congressional debate over Medicare payment policy in the next months will force physicians to face the cold, harsh reality of life in tight budgetary times.

With limited resources and a long list of funding needs, lawmakers will have to choose between competing interests. Their options pit physicians against physicians, and physicians against their patients, in the fight for health care dollars.

With this article
1 step forward, 2 back
See related content
The opening salvo of the debate came as an amendment by Sen. Charles Grassley (R, Iowa) to the tax bill passed by the Senate in mid-May. The measure would provide more funds for rural health care, including limits on the geographic disparities in Medicare physician payments. But the boon for rural doctors could come at the expense of other physicians.

Medicare adjusts physician fees for local variations in labor, practice and liability insurance costs. That means many rural physicians have been paid less for the same services than their counterparts in higher cost, urban areas.

The Grassley amendment would eliminate any reductions that occur as a result of the geographic adjusters. That would bring all physicians at least to the national average without lowering payments to physicians in higher-cost areas.

"This legislation goes a long way to fixing the shortcomings in Medicare that shortchange Iowa and other rural states," Grassley said.

To pay for the adjustments, Grassley proposed cutting Medicare payments for physician-administered outpatient drugs, adding a beneficiary co-payment for clinical lab services and freezing payments for durable medical equipment.

Medicare pays for only a handful of outpatient drugs, mainly chemotherapy treatments, that are typically administered by physicians. Doctors are reimbursed for the drugs at 95% of the manufacturer-reported average wholesale price. In recent years, lawmakers have discovered that this price is often much higher than the prices physicians actually pay for the drugs.

But oncologists and other specialists depend on overpayments to make up for shortfalls in Medicare payments for administering those drugs. Lawmakers crafting wholesale price measures have pledged not to cut drug prices without increasing reimbursement for practice expenses for doctors relying on such cross-subsidies.

The Grassley amendment, however, would not raise payments to those physicians. That means oncologists, hematologists and other affected doctors would have to take a pay cut to fund increases for rural physicians.

"Sen. Grassley cut AWP and spent the money on rural health," said Tom Scully, administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. Scully said CMS would adjust drug pricing and raise practice expense payments administratively if Congress doesn't act on wholesale pricing.

The House version of the tax bill does not include the Grassley provisions, and congressional staff have indicated that House leaders would prefer to deal with those issues in a Medicare reform bill this summer. A committee of House and Senate appointees will now try to hammer out a single version of the tax bill.

If Grassley's amendment is signed into law, CMS could still raise practice expense payments for the oncologists, but only by reducing payments to other doctors, Scully said.

Barbara McAneny, MD, an oncologist from Albuquerque, N.M., said the Grassley amendment has caused her to take a hard look at which Medicare patients come through her door.

"I have now asked my CPA to run me a spreadsheet to look at what level Medicare patient I can afford to take care of in my group," she said. "Having this decrease without an increase in practice expense [payments] on top of the projected 4.2% decrease in Medicare for next year is really going to put us on the brink in terms of being able to treat Medicare patients."

Trouble all around
And prospects for relief from next year's anticipated 4.2% average Medicare pay cut for all physicians appear gloomy.

Rep. Bill Thomas (R, Calif.), chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, said lawmakers expected the Bush administration's move earlier this year to increase physician payments would have resulted in positive updates for the next few years. Now, other priorities, such as an outpatient prescription drug benefit, might take precedence over further relief for physicians. Any increase in physician payment would mean fewer funds for a drug benefit for seniors.

"The administration just put in $60 billion into the pot," Thomas said. "At some point, somebody at least has to take a long breath."

Thomas said he would consider some changes to the physician payment formula to smooth out the sharp up-and-down trend of updates in recent years but would probably add no new money.

Scully has also been lukewarm to the idea of increasing physician payments because the volume of physician services grew substantially faster in 2002 than expected. When physician spending exceeds the target, payment is cut in future years.

Part of that growth in physician services was a 35% jump in spending on physician-administered drugs.

Dr. McAneny, a member of CMS' Practicing Physicians Advisory Council, is irked that this drug spending is part of the pay formula.

"I have absolutely no control over the cost of those drugs," Dr. McAneny said. "I have to purchase these medications in order to administer them, and it would be unethical for me to deny them to Medicare patients."

Scully has indicated little support for removing the drug expenses from the physician update calculation because the administration believes that physicians are in the best position to control spending for those drugs. But Dr. McAneny and PPAC members told Scully that this puts them in the difficult position of penalizing all physicians when they choose what's best for their patients.

The American Medical Association has urged CMS to drop drug spending from its definition of physician services. The AMA also has maintained that its top payment reform issue remains the update. While the group has supported greater geographic equity in Medicare payments, the AMA says eliminating the cut in overall Medicare payments will do more for rural states and benefit all physicians.

The Medicare payment situation has left rural physicians, including Michael Kitchell, MD, a neurologist from Ames, Iowa, feeling twice bitten. Rural physicians have typically had lower utilization rates than doctors in other parts of the country, yet they now face cuts because of the increase in the volume of services provided nationwide.

"It's a sad irony that, because of utilization patterns in more highly reimbursed states, beneficiaries in the lower-reimbursed states will have their access to care impeded," Dr. Kitchell said.

"Practice pressures, increased costs and these across-the-board payment cuts affect all physicians," he said. "But those of us in Iowa and other rural areas feel as though we have a double Medicare penalty -- from the [update] and secondly from geographical adjustments."

Back to top.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
1 step forward, 2 back
Iowa is among rural states that stand to gain from the elimination of regional adjustments in Medicare pay, but physicians there would lose much more from the anticipated 4.2% across-the-board cuts.

Increase over 10 years from elimination of geographic adjusters:

Physician work >$2.28 million
Practice expense $4.81 million
Liability premiums $1.06 million
Total $8.15 million

Impact of a 4.2% pay cut: $28 million decrease in 2004

Sources: Office of Sen. Charles Grassley, AMA

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Posted on May 27, 2003, 9:38 PM
from IP address 67.249.67.181

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Practice Builders

by Evan (no login)

I'm currently working as an associate for a podiatrist that has been in practice for several years. We have been brainstorming for ideas on how to market our practice. He wants me to go around to the different PCP offices and bring them lunch and do a slide presentation. Does this sound like a good idea?? Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Posted on May 27, 2003, 9:02 PM
from IP address 63.215.154.105

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PR Podiatry

by J. Anderson (no login)

Will you be getting paid for your presentations by your boss and for transportation expenses? Have any PCPs or specialists been over to your podiatry office with lunch and a slide presentation of their practices? This example is yet another failure of organized podiatry to set the record straight of DPMs credentials, schooling, scope and practice etc...

Posted on May 29, 2003, 3:32 PM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Out of touch again

by Anonymous (no login)

Dr. Anderson many a MD has come to my office with lunch. They are not paid but the lunch may be picked up by the hospital or a drug company. It's a way to put a face with a name . Plus the staff never forgets who fed them. Remember they are who fills out the referral forms not the doc. That's the problem with many of you who tell how bad it is, you just haven't realized the changes in medicine that have occurred in the last 5-10 years. If you think like a DPM of the 70 or 80s you are doomed to fail.......
my opinion And I know you were so involved and saw all of the corruption and that's why you left blah blah blah. Get back involved for 1 year and then re post

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 2:23 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Food and Drug Dealers

by J. Anderson (no login)

Dear Sir/Madam Anonymous:

Yes, there is a great deal of documented corruption with drug company infiltration ("Just say no to drug reps campaign," and refusal of drug companies in academic teaching institutions and departments . Their potential for bias in medical centres and in peer-reviewed medical journals with their "research" has required particular regulations to be instituted to prevent bias, or undue influence- a gift is a gift, the food is for something in return in the future-nothing is for a purely altruisitic manner-unless it is for family or close friends.

This is not a minor point and the associate must secure permission from his hospital affiliations or surgery centres if the associate wants to have a private drug company pay for lunch (which means selling or advertising a drug during the lunch). If it is at a private practice then permission obviously does not have to be obtained.

Posted on Jun 3, 2003, 11:19 AM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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The grassy Knoll

by anonymous (no login)

I swear Dr. Anderson everything isn't a scam/conspiracy. If I use a drug anyway and a company pays for a lunch so I can introduce myself to a referral source so what. Yes if I get referrals and I use their product they indirectly benefit. Most do not even discuss their product just introduce me or just have the food delivered.
Same if I use a surgery center for all my surgery and they introduce a few FPs to me while we fish and they refer surgery, I still do it where I always did.

It's called networking. If your priest who you contribute to each week at church introduces you to future patients what now is Pope involved?

Just once common sense please.

Posted on Jun 3, 2003, 5:10 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Re: Food and Drug Dealers

by Anonymous (no login)

You have got to be kidding. Any doctor that blames a drug company for infiltrating an institution and clouding their mind with a pizza or a tuna sandwich is a small minded fool. They are a good source of info as well as free lunch.

Posted on Jun 4, 2003, 8:53 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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Pizza and Drug Dealers

by J. Anderson (no login)

Dear Sir/Madam:

No, I am not kidding that can be construed as bias or undue influence. And in fact several medical schools and major medical centres have forbit any gifts/food/dinners etc... unless under $10.00 such as a cup of coffee, pen, or a mug. Marcia Angel formed editor in chief of NEJM has written quite a bit about this and it unfortunate effect on both research and clinical practice.

Posted on Jun 5, 2003, 3:38 PM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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out of touch, thats for shure

by who cares, good 4u (no login)

ru serious, mds bringing lunches. Not in this lifetime. Let me clear my lunch schedule so that me and the boys can go to Morton's for lunch on the GP. Pods don't get courted by MDs, DO,s, or anyone except drug companies.
Blatent lies,
amazing
who cares, good 4u

Posted on Jun 3, 2003, 1:22 PM
from IP address 192.35.79.70

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Why is that hard to believe

by anonymous (no login)

I practice in a larger city. The hospital that recruits a MD has a vested interest in making them successful. FPs,pain docs,endocrinologists,neurologists, physiatrists,infectious disease, and even vascular surgeons have either visited, brought donuts, or sposored lunch for my staff.
We have MDs in our area that are slow and ask to do my H&Ps and even new orthos who scrub for assistance fees.
Someday some of you DPMs will realize that although they should be respected (if they deserve it) MDs are not the know all profession. They have some of the same problems we have. Our hospital recently recruited 3 new orthos because one of the established ones now is an investor in a surgery center. Well his patient load hasn't dropped just where he does his elective surgery. So the hospital trys to fight back by bringing in more competition. The na na na na defense. Well one of the new orthos been here 6 months is only averaging 5 or less patients/day and considering moving back to CA. He has scrubed with me on rearfoot cases to make assistance fee $$$. Try ot to assume if it doesn't happen to you it must not exist. For example how many people did you se that needed triple arthrodesis last year? If I told you I did 25 does that mean I'm telling a lie or perhaps we live in different enviroments?

Posted on Jun 4, 2003, 9:24 AM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Re: Why is that hard to believe

by Anonymous (no login)

I believe you when you state that you did 25 triples last year.

There are 2 podiatry professions. You are in one of them, the other podiatrists are in the other profession.

You work very hard to reach down to give a helping hand to the younger podiatrist and for this, the entire profession respects you.

You are a healer and a gentleman, Sir, and you have our highest respect.

Posted on Jun 4, 2003, 11:16 PM
from IP address 67.248.204.17

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Thank you

by Anonymous (no login)

Thank you for the nice words. My goal is that eventually we have everyone in one successful group! It will take time and work but I'm an optimist. Many of the users and takers are losing their followings or have been unmasked.
If I can just convince some of the posters that there are good people in many of the organizations and people who do care and fight for the profession maybe we all could turn down the rhetoric.
Every year I see things a little better but get offended when the entire system is attacked since I am part of it. I know some have been screwed and yes some have failed because of their own behavior. But until we realize that it is the few bad apples who turn us who care against each other while they sit back and corrupt the system we all lose.
We need optimistic ethical students who are supported and not frightened by some of the negative attacks. Imagine being in debt, studying all night for a final and then read posts that tell them to run away or just wait you'll fail. Let's all try to expose the warts but then remove them and not turn off people who care. Also some posts are plants by our competitors who are obviously nervous so at least we are doing some good if we can scare a sneaky ortho or 2. BTW some orthos are our friends and refer so that was meant for the mean spirited ones who read and post here.
Once again thanks!!!!!

Posted on Jun 4, 2003, 11:38 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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excellent idea

by anonymous (no login)

Yes it's a great idea. I have had some MDs do that at my office. You may get a drug company to sponsor you. Another idea is social events sponsored by a surgery center where they link up 3-5 referral sources with a couple of surgeons on a fishing trip or ballgame. Little business should be discussed just make some friends.

Posted on May 29, 2003, 4:02 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Re: Practice Builders

by Anonymous (no login)

Do things that work.

Do things that are not embarrising.

NOBODY wants to see a slide show on podiatry or on what you can do.

Be a podiatrist, as that is what you do best. Others will know of your quality and will send hundreds of new patients to you. Every young podiatrist has no trouble building their practice, as everyone now has outstanding residencies.

You will be a multi-millionare like all other podiatrists.

Posted on May 29, 2003, 9:57 PM
from IP address 67.248.251.170

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Not a slide show

by anonymous (no login)

Introduce yourself, where you are from, where you went to school etc. Interact, share stories about your kids, their schools, and hobbies. Then leave and they will have nothing but nice things to say about the person who was nice to bring them lunch!

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 2:26 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Snacks & MOney!

by (no login)

Practice Builder:
Why don't you just apply for a job at your local Dinner, that way you can do both, make the sandwich, take it to the PCP and earn some money ( from the sandwich-making job).
Yor boss should be poissoned, that's what I think!
Better luck!
Nathalie

Posted on May 30, 2003, 4:16 AM
from IP address 204.31.171.248

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Food and Podiatric Slide Shows

by J. Anderson (no login)

-Quite embarrassing for an associate to be driving around with food and slides to show MDs a podiatry practice to drum-up business. how about impressing them with your medical/surgical knowledge by treating patients like family and doing an outstanding, ethical practice instead of food and schmoozing.

Posted on Jun 1, 2003, 5:10 PM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Your boss

by Anonymous (no login)

Your boss is trying to give you ideas on how to build your patient load. Boy he/she must be evil and the devil. You may not agree with the suggestion, but be glad that they care enough to make the suggestion. Don't listen to the failures who sit in their offices waiting for the phone to ring and blame the profession.

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 2:29 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Been There Evan

by Dr Been There (no login)

Evan, Please take this from one who has been there and does not want you to be sucked into the same hole I got sucked into. First, if your Boss has been there several years, they know he is there. Many PCP have Pods they refer already, and so they need a reason to refer to you guys. For instance, you guys provide a special area of care no one else does, or does as well as you, for instance wound care, or sports medicine. Here is where practice building comes in. Finding an area of specialty, and really building a portion of the practice in that direction. Not to mention, advertising and promoting that direction. See if your boss is willing to invest a few sheckles for say a hyperbaric oxygen chamber (a mini one, used if possible) for lower extremity ulcers (which may not be reimburseable but the word of mouth from its wound healing could be worth its weight in gold). Good Luck!

Posted on May 31, 2003, 6:13 AM
from IP address 68.45.114.134

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marketing

by Who cares good 4u (no login)

Best bet is to hire an advertising agency that can help you target those physicians that may best be suited to you. The problem is that word of mouth is best of all. Your patients will refer you patients, PCP's are not your primary referal base. You need to offer a service that other practices do not offer, its called differentiation from the competition. Wound care, trauma, sports med, pediatrics, later hours, weekends. WHATEVER. Key to success is marketing, identify your patient base, then advertise towards them, not the pcps. They won't refer to you if they have not already.
Give speeches at local community activities, not at doctor offices. Time is too valuable. Write segments in your local paper about heel pain or whatever, dm wound care. This always seems to work for a boost.
good luck
If all else fails, just offer them a kick back(just kidding)
sincerely,
who cares, good 4u

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 3:16 PM
from IP address 192.35.79.70

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Congratulations!

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

A sincere congratulations to the new DPM's out there. You have worked hard to earn your title.

As you begin your residency programs, please don't forget us. In 2 or 3 years, also don't forget the life lessons you have learned from this forum (I hope you have been able to take a few ideas from us old dogs). Remember, one day you may be the boss, hiring an associate. Compensate and treat them fairly, lest they show up here and begin glooming.

I wish you all luck, and hope that you are able to live comfortably, and happily. It's not an easy road, but even I believe it can be done if you really want it. I didn't want it bad enough, so I got out, and I'm very happy with my decision (though the loans will haunt me forever - ack!).

Take care - and if you become that million dollar pod, don't forget about your old pal, Jeff...I am not above taking charity :)

Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM

Posted on May 26, 2003, 1:12 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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Adios for now

by New POD (A.A.D.) (no login)

Well our school graduated 29 students to the ranks of DPM, all of which are getting surgical residencies. I probably wont have as much time to post on here once residency starts but I will still check in every once in a while. I know that most of the people on this board (the appropriately named doom and gloomers) do not believe a word I say and think that Im just a cocky kid with high hopes and dreams but I disagree. I am very thorough and plan almost everything very carefully. I dont jump into anything blindly and I sure dont throw away over $100,000 and 4 years of school and 3 years of residency without checking what the market for podiatry is. I got into this field at the lowest point for podiatry school enrollment (which historically has peaks and troughs)which means I graduated with less people and more opportunities. This 4th year has reitterated everything I thought was true going into podiatry school. Podiatrists have made a huge leap in their training and have subsequently been elevated to the level of physician. Every hospital I was at this year had a good attitude towards podiatrists and in many cases the podiatry had a good relationship with the ortho department. Orthos let the pods do ALL foot and ankle cases.

I know podiatry isnt all glamour, I met some bad pods that were extremely crooked and give podiatry a bad name. Its people like them that have caused all the billing controversies. Its not worth your career or your dignity to try and defraud the insurance companies. They may be even more crooked than the doctors themselves but thats not the way to take them on. I will continue to support the APMA and local podiatry groups because I am not in competition with anyone. I know that I can bring a lot to the profession and my work ethic and attitude will speak for itself. I may not make millions of dollars but I know I wont be making the 15 thousand reported on here all the time. I know several areas that are in need of podiatry and if you do the research you can find the areas as well.

So in closing, good luck to all the new graduates! I look forward to seeing everyone in conferences the next couple of years or maybe at CRIPs when we get to do the interviews.

New POD (formerly A.A.D.)

Posted on May 25, 2003, 10:33 AM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Re: Adios for now

by Anonymous (no login)

CONGRATS new pod! I am mad that NYCPM graduates so late in the year. I have another week to go. The waiting sucks.

Posted on May 26, 2003, 3:21 PM
from IP address 141.150.48.182

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Re: Adios for now

by Anonymous (no login)

Enjoy your residency years. You will probably make more money than you will ever make in private practice

Posted on May 27, 2003, 11:01 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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"Orthos LET Podiatirsts"

by Anonymous (no login)

You say this and you see no problem with it.

Why do podiatrists have to get permission from another group?

And if they have to get permission, does that mean that it could be withheld?

Is that a secure profession????

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 1:17 PM
from IP address 67.248.204.247

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out of context

by New Pod (A.A.D.) (no login)

If you read my original post you would see that I was implying that there was little to no competition between orthos and pods. I did not mean to give you fuel to say that orthos control how much surgery we are able to do. I know it makes no difference to you because you are only here to bad mouth the profession and turn anything you can into a negative comment.

New Pod

Posted on Jun 2, 2003, 10:51 PM
from IP address 68.114.116.194

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" Orthos LET podiatrists"

by Anonymous (no login)

I won't take something out of context. This is one of the problems of podiatry and it exists if you like it or not. Or if you think that i am "negative" or not.

Podiatrists might know fancy procedures BUT the ortho department controls to what extent a Podiatrist will practice in the Hospital or not.

New Podiatrist, Podiatrists do not control the Hospital. And you have no rights to do surgery in a hospital no matter how well trained you are.

Once again, I does not matter what you think or "feel". The truth is what is presented here. One day, with experience, you will discover it.

Posted on Jun 3, 2003, 9:59 PM
from IP address 67.249.33.96

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If you think there is a lot of negativity here....

by Anonymous (no login)

Imagine how much more there would be if it weren't moderated.

Posted on May 25, 2003, 8:37 AM
from IP address 207.42.135.28

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I know half the things I post I never see here!

by Anonymous (no login)

They must be scared of the truth.

Posted on Jun 1, 2003, 7:33 AM
from IP address 207.42.135.28

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Yea to the Webmaster.

by Anonymous (no login)

The webmaster is a responsible fellow. Let's not smash him also.