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Pods are the best down below

by Anomalous (no login)

No, this isn't a new bumper sticker idea.

Although I'm a DPM whose jumping ship (entering DO school in August) and I'm incredibly pissed off (still) about many things podiatry, I will still endorse a podiatrist over an orthopod ANY DAY for your foot complaints. The only area that an orthopod MIGHT challenge a well-trained pod is the ankle. And, even then, like Dr. Daniels said, there are very few orthopods who specialize in the foot and ankle. And, I'm not even sure I would call a 6 month foot and ankle fellowship intensive training. No doubt that orthos are much more skilled at surgical techniques than DPM's, but the fact is that they pretty much NEVER do hammertoes, bunions, styloid avulsions, etc. IF they do any foot and ankle procedures, it's generally limited to ankle and Achilles.

Knowing something about biomechanics doesn't mean a whole lot in the real world. Sorry Jeff. I just disagree. The vast majority of DPM's just do their surgeries without any regard to future biomechanical manifestations. During my residency, I never ONCE saw a resident do any shoe modifications or orthotic prescription for any surgical patient. We were no different than the orthopods.

If anyone is curious as to why I'm leaving, here goes:

I will forever view podiatry as both a legitimate field of medicine and a scam. Obviously, podiatrists serve a very necessary niche in the world of medicine. I think that isn't in question. What is in question, however, is the process to become a DPM. I've told this story before on this forum, but think I'll mention it again.

I graduated from UCLA in the 80's with a very good GPA. I got a 26S on my MCAT (astronomical for pod school). I went to CCPM and finished with a 3.55 and was well-liked and well-known amongst my classmates and instructors. I did every conceivable volunteer duty as a student and NEVER missed a clinic or any other outside requirement. After my 1st year of pod school, I earned approximately a 3.9 GPA. I applied to dozens and dozens of programs and went to every freaking CRIP's. I spent money that I didn't have and went through a ton of bulls@#t interviews with a lot of pompous jerks. Most of these "interviews" consisted of obscure pimping sessions that, frankly, made me somewhat embarassed to be a part of this profession. Didn't we already "prove" ourselves after 4 years? What an unecessary nightmare that was! I ended up at L.A. County for my 4th year (now defunct) and cut about 27 billion pounds of nails. Oh, I guess I also did about 5 ingrowns and two bunions. Then came the match....

Herein lies most of my anger. To make a long bitch session shorter, suffice to say that I was LUCKY to match with a PPMR (County). The president of our class matched with NOTHING. Ultimately, he had to take an UNFUNDED position in Arizona! Nice. He had to move his family over there to make nothing as a resident. My PPMR did almost nothing to prepare me for the real world. Again, I cut billions of nails and only assisted on 5 foot surgeries. The only highlight was that I got to pretend that I was a real doctor for 5 months as I rotated through the hospital. Let me tell you, it wasn't easy. Since I NEVER got to see the inside of a hospital during my pathetic clinical years as a pod student, I had pretty much no idea what the hell was going on. Wonderful.

So, let's sum it up. I'm 175k in debt and I can cut nails, calluses and do PNA's. Why should I complain? I really should just buck up and realize that I just never approached the "elite" of pod student. Those angelic few who actually got some surgical training during their residency. If only to be a part of that vaunted group of individuals...

But, being the hard working guy that I am and, more importantly, totally unable to live with the idea that I might die a podiatrist, I got my butt in gear and started studying for the MCAT (again). I took it last year and applied to only one DO school (because I'm a homeowner and my wife has a good job in the area). I guess the initials "DPM" must have helped a little bit. They MUST have known that I had at least seen the inside of an OR. Or, maybe not.

Second, I think that podiatry is a dying field. Reimbursements are getting less and less (proportionally to other medical fields), the future group of graduating students will only further hurt the reputation of pods (since there hasn't been any competition to enter pod schools since probably 1998 or so), podiatric procedures are continuing to be limited or eliminated altogether, podiatrists are often seen as "quasi" doctors and it's much, much more difficult to make a good living compared with other DO's and MD's. Also, it's next to impossible to find any kind of job as a DPM. New podiatrists, plain and simple, cannot make enough money to keep afloat.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 5:38 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.165

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dpm student

by Anonymous (no login)

thanks for the insight.

Posted on May 19, 2003, 4:24 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.110

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Re: Pods are the best down below

by Anonymous (no login)

You said it all. I was a podiatrist and now I work for a pharmaceutical company out in CA. Good luck and when you graduate write alot of drugs. I need to put my daughter through college

Posted on May 21, 2003, 8:54 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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Pharm rep

by Anomalous (no login)

I used to rep "scientific supplies" before I officially became pre-med (Curtin Matheson in Anaheim Hills, CA).

Reading this forum now doesn't make me sweat in a panic like it used to. Now that I've become seriously pro-active about my future, I'm breathing much, much better. It is really pathetic, however, just how negative and foreboding this site is. Worse yet, it's always been like this.

If I could boil down the main reason for the angst...I'd say that it's because many students thought they were going to medical school to become doctors. When they finished, they discovered that they are caught somewhere between a practitioner and a doctor and are treated and compensated thusly. It has to do with lack of opportunities, anxiety over huge student loans (which, in no way, reflect the earning power you will have) and ego.

Jeff Davids and I should start our own class-action lawsuit against our school and the system that left us out in the cold.

Posted on May 23, 2003, 3:13 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.165

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Class Action Suits...

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

"Jeff Davids and I should start our own class-action lawsuit against our school and the system that left us out in the cold."

Marc,

I doubt it would do any good...but if you come up with something (being that your wife is a lawyer), let me know. Be sure to also include CASPR, the merit-less residency scam.

Good luck in DO school...remember, if you don't know the answer, try "splanchnic nerve." It always obfuscates and confuses enough so that they leave you alone.

Jeff

Posted on May 23, 2003, 8:13 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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Medicare cutting out Podiatry?

by Richard Willner DPM (no login)

Is Medicare cuting out podiatry? The facts include that one medicare intermediatry has cut out onychomycosis after 6 months of treatment. Is that the begging of the end of this very long medicare involvement with podiatry?

No. But i see it as the fine tuning ofthe fees so that mediare can save billions of dollars.

Good Luck to the new Graduates. We wish them all of the success inthe world.

Rich Willner DPM

Posted on May 15, 2003, 9:59 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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No

by Anonymous (no login)

No, they are just eliminating care that has been overutilized and shouldn't have been paid for in the first place.

Footcare/ Nail debridemnets should be a cash noncovered service except for severe PVD and diabetes.

The newest grads do not need to worry since they are more medical versus chiropody based.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 7:01 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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SEEKING PODIATRIST FOR LARGE $$ OPPURTUNITY

by (no login)

I am seeking poditrist willing to travel throughout the state you are residing in for a great money making oppurtunity. Please contact me at 1-(800) 442-3542 for details.

Danny Yanesh
Certified Medical

Posted on May 15, 2003, 6:58 PM
from IP address 66.0.225.168

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I left and I'm happy

by Anonymous (no login)

I left the field about 6 years ago and I couldn't be happier. Granted I wasted 10 years as a practicing podiatrist, but I have a good job now with a large pharmaceutical company. If you can do well in podiatry, congratulations. If not, stop complaining about your situation and make a change. It's terrible for grown people to just complain about there chosen profession without doing something about it

Posted on May 15, 2003, 6:39 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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Absolutely

by Anomalous (no login)

I can't say that I actually "wasted" my 4 years of practice + 4 years of pod school +....well, I WILL say that I wasted one year in my utterly pointless PPMR. Realistically, at my age, I would have never been accepted to DO school had I not taken these courses and at least had SOME exposure in a medical setting.

I'm starting DO school on August 11th. The moment my 1st instructor speaks his/her first words in my first MEDICAL SCHOOL class, I am going to literally feel the million ton albatross taking flight from my shoulders.

Even though I'm 175k in debt and am super bitter about the system (education, post-graduate training), I'm choosing to look at these last 10 years as an interesting diversion. Sometimes I see it as an incredibly expensive pre-med course.

One word of advice. If you aren't absolutely sure that you want to be a podiatrist for the rest of your life, get out now. If you are sure, good luck. There will be a whole lot less pods to compete with in the future.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 4:58 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.165

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I couldn't agree more...

by Anonymous (no login)

I left in my third year and owe 100K. so yes it was an expensive premed course. but hey at least it has helped me to get a 4.0 in Med School.

Posted on May 21, 2003, 7:51 AM
from IP address 207.42.135.28

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medical school

by Anonymous (no login)

This spring break met a guy that seemed arrogant when I heard him bragging about being in medical school to some girls at the hotel pool. I approached him and told him I too was in medical school and asked where he attended. He replied and it was some school I had never heard of and I probed a little more and then he stated he was in podiatry school. I don't want to offend anyone, but I was wondering if all podiatry students call themselves medical students or if it was just this individual. Medical students become medical doctors, podiatry students become podiatrist. Again, no offense to anyone I just never heard a podiatrist call themselves a medical doctor. Please inform me about the situation.

Posted on May 14, 2003, 9:30 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.151

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Re: medical school

by cg (no login)

Who cares

Posted on May 15, 2003, 11:54 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Medical student

by anonymous (no login)

A better response would be a podiatric medical student. When I was in school that is what I would say. I am proud of my profession, sometimes though people will say medical student to avoid the 20 minute Q&A that typically follows the podiatric adjective. He is a medical student in a Podiatry School. I list my profession as an ankle and foot surgeon since that is what I am but use DPM on Rxs, letterhead etc. Hope that is politocally correct......
Best of luck! One other question should a DO student say osteopathic medical student or just medical student? An should they say they are an osteopath or the specialty they do? How about the maxillofacial surgeon, are they a dentist when asked? As long as the podiatric medical student was not trying to Pap smears or examine someones throat who cares????

Posted on May 15, 2003, 2:14 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Re: Medical student

by cg (no login)

In hospitals we do examine throats, listen to hearts ect. just like any other med student. As long as you dont represent yourself as something your not or practice beyond your scope of training when you get into practice, I see no problem with calling Pod students Podiatric medical students... thats what it say on my student id and thats what the ER doc I am rotating under right now calls me.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 11:11 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Not Again

by md student (no login)

Look, we all study one form of medicine or another okay? It doesn't matter what you call yourself. If this is a big deal for you, then you have problems. All the great doctors I know doesn't really care if you call them Dr....or just their first name. If you are good, then you are good. I have also met chiropracters that have such a huge chip on their shoulder that they DEMAND to be called "doctor". And I'm not even disrespecting their profession...but I do disrespect that kind of attitude no what what kind of doctor they are.
md student

Posted on May 15, 2003, 3:13 PM
from IP address 169.147.3.25

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Re: medical school

by DO MS IV (no login)

Who cares?

Being a medical student doesn't make one anymore special than being a podiatry student or vice versa.

Get over it.

Posted on May 15, 2003, 4:04 PM
from IP address 129.120.99.128

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Re: Re: medical school

by Anonymous (no login)

Words of wisdom coming from a DO. Don't get so upset because you can't put MD beside you name.

Posted on May 15, 2003, 5:26 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.151

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Re: medical school

by 3rd_yr_DO_student (no login)

I don't see anything wrong with a podiatry student calling himself a medical student. He does attend podiatric MEDICAL school and will become a D.P.M., a DOCTOR specializing in foot diseases and disorders. It's not like he's a D.P.M. claiming to be an M.D. or vice versa, then it would be wrong.
By the way you guys should lighten up in here, never knew podiatrists feel so negatively about their profession. In almost osteopathic forum i participate, the messages are positive and empowering, very different than here.

Posted on May 15, 2003, 4:16 PM
from IP address 172.197.244.198

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More Trivial Nonsense

by 3rd year out (no login)

My patients, nurses on the floor and OR call me doctor. Some patients call me Bob, the plaintiff attorney calls me an easy mark, LOL. My dad calls me punk kid, with affection of course. My wife calls me..., never mind. LOL.

I think it was said best by those before me.

WHO CARES?

my 2 cents.

Posted on May 15, 2003, 5:17 PM
from IP address 209.26.251.207

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mutual respect

by Stu Pod (no login)

The MD and DO student responses to this post are typical of what I encountered during my 4 yrs. of school......mutual respect. We certainly respect the work they do, and they respect what we do for patients.

Posted on May 15, 2003, 9:07 PM
from IP address 12.83.150.32

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podiatrists are doctors period!

by footdoc (no login)

Let us explore the curriculum that podiatry students have to go through in order to successfully become a well-trained "medical" specialist of the foot and ankle.
The first two years consist of the basic sciences (taught by Phd's in their respective fields; most of them in fact are from nearby well-known medical schools...) These classes are taught with the same rigorous goals and expectations as that for any medical student in a M.D. school.
The last two remaining years consist of clinical sciences and rotations in different areas of medicine (medicine, pathology, surgery, radiology, emergency medicine...shall I go on???) The only differences that I can see are the following: podiatry students, in the area of sugery, tend to focus more on the lower extremity...but hello??? After all, we are "pod"iatrists! Podiatry students also do not go through OBGYN or psychiatry...wow, what a loss! <sarcasm> And of course the Boards Part I, II, which are different from the USMLE. I fully believe that with the same type of schooling podiatry students go through, they should be able to take the USMLE along with the M.D. students, and even perform better than some of the M.D. students.

Now let's move on to residency:
Most residency programs are 2-3 yrs long, which will soon be changed to a mandatory time period of 3 yrs. Residents would go through the same areas of medicine again. However the only difference is that podiatry residents would concentrate more on surgery of the lower extremity. There are a ton of procedures which can be performed to the foot and ankle. But before even thinking about performing a procedure on a patient, such as a diabetic or an SLE patient who has been on steroids, the podiatrist must possess the medical knowledge to understand these medical conditions. And rightfully so, we as podiatrists have gone through the schooling and training to be able to do such a task.

So now you have to ask yourself after reading the above, are podiatrists considered doctors? Let me see here - we treat and do surgery on patients, some of whom can be quite ill at times. We go through four years of schooling, which are very similar to that of the M.D. curriculum, and of course residency. Hmmm...I think I have rest my case.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 5:27 PM
from IP address 156.3.33.13

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Re: podiatrists are doctors period!

by Anonymous (no login)

Hmmm...I think I have rest my case. The grammar is great no wonder you are in podiatry school.

Posted on May 20, 2003, 12:59 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.32

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Re: Re: podiatrists are doctors period!

by cg (no login)

You might want to reread your post as well.

Posted on May 20, 2003, 6:28 PM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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USMLE

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

"I fully believe that with the same type of schooling podiatry students go through, they should be able to take the USMLE along with the M.D. students, and even perform better than some of the M.D. students."

Sorry to tell you, but a group of "top" DPM students DID take the USMLE back in the mid-90's, and they all failed. I think most of them scored in the 60's, overall.

I don't have all of the details, but I remember hearing that it was a "test program" to see how DPM training compared to MD training.

I completely agree that we take the same courses, with few exceptions (aside from what you mentioned, we also miss out on a few labs that MD students take (ie: pathology). I'm not really sure what caused the USMLE failures, but it may have been that it was taken at the end of the 2nd year, before all of the coursework had been completed (DPM students, as you know, take coursework in the 3rd and, sometimes, 4th years). Additionally, I don't know if it was done with representatives from all of the schools, or just one, which may have made a difference.

If podiatry schools can further condense their training into two years, then it should be attempted again.

Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM

Posted on May 21, 2003, 8:57 AM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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Re: USMLE

by Cg (no login)

Top DPM students did not take a official USMLE exam in the 90s that is a urban legend. The USMLE is a test that your curriculum must be geared towards(we dont take real psych or OB and our path is not a comprehensive). Remember Podiatrys courses are similar to MD and DO courses, but they are not geared to taking the USMLE. If the curriculum was geared toward the USMLE I am sure Pod student could pass.

Posted on May 21, 2003, 3:47 PM
from IP address 141.150.96.155

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usmle

by cma (no login)

psych and OB would be covered on USMLE 2 and 3. USMLE 1 covers basic sciences and is taken at the end of the 2nd year. This test is not easy. It would be an unusual pod student who could pass it.
Med students and dental students take anatomy together at IU. The best scores from med students on a practical will be low 90's, dental low 60's. There is a curve. Why the difference? The med student has studied his f---ing balls off.
Same with the USMLE.

Posted on May 22, 2003, 10:04 PM
from IP address 63.185.32.42

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USMLE

by J. Anderson (no login)

I thought DPM students took the USMLE at the one of the midwestern podiatry schools and they did quite poorly. The path course we all took was comphrehensive; the exact same course as the Hahneman students everything in excruciating detail- which was excellent! Also ob/gyn and psych are covered on parts II and III therefore a podiatry student should be able to pass the exam part I IF they study hard and actually learn basic sciences as they relate to cases not memorizing disjointed "facts". Why not it we are equals first and second years--let's take this exam.

Posted on May 23, 2003, 10:21 AM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Re: USMLE

by Anonymous (no login)

Ok, you guys win. Pod students arent smart enough to pass the USMLE. Thats what you want to hear so there it is. You guys are pathetic. Only person I can speak for is me and I know that if I wanted to pass the USMLE and had the proper study marterial, I would pass.

Posted on May 23, 2003, 2:32 PM
from IP address 141.150.96.155

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I did not say that

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

I didn't say that pods *can't* pass the USMLE. I said that, from what I heard, pod students in the mid-90's did NOT pass the USMLE.

You say that you could pass if you wanted to. I believe you. I, too, think I could have passed it when I was a student (not anymore, as I no longer know the difference between an IgM and a brainstem - but you use or you lose it, I guess).

I think that the profession should try again, and the students who will take it should be notified well before the test so that they can begin studying early. If we can prove ourselves on the USMLE, the MD community will have to take notice.

Jeff

Posted on May 23, 2003, 8:24 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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no

by cma (no login)

it's not a matter of intelligience. It's a matter of preparation. What I'm saying is I took path in pod and med school and in pod school I read the notes and took the tests and had a 90% average. In med school I attended the classes and took notes AND I read Robbins cover to cover 3 times some chapters I read 5 times. Some pages of the book take 45 minutes to read intensively. So I feel like I studied so much more and learned so much more and I got a 94% in the class.
I'm not any smarter than you, but I think pod students don't consider a lot of what they study relevant so the intensity is not the same. I remember one late night discussing salivary gland pathology with my roommate at 2:00 am, we had both just finished reading a section of the path book and were quizzing each other, but we weren't cramming for a test or anything, we were just excited about pathology.

Posted on May 23, 2003, 9:29 PM
from IP address 63.185.32.4

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USMLE

by Oral Surgeon (no login)

I took Step 1 at the end of my fourth year of dental school. I studied for two weeks (hard). I passed with an above average score, but within the aveage standard deviation. I think many students (pods included) can pass if the study hard enough. I just wanted to pass the USMLE, which consequently was 178 at the time. Funny thing is that 3 students at my med school didn't pass.

Posted on May 25, 2003, 3:11 PM
from IP address 205.185.128.230

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33% LESS Medicare money for DPM!!!

by Told U. So, DPM (no login)

Believe it (see below)...it's the 'law-of-the-land' for Trailblaser states
(Texas, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware and the District of Columbia).

The 90 day screen applies to CPT 11720 and CPT 11721 codes, whether done for
"pain", "limitation of ambulation", "secondary infection", or with the "Q7",
"Q8" or "Q9" modifiers.

The other part of this local medical review policy (LMRP) for Trailblazer is
that there is now a statement regarding the definitive treatment of the
onychomycosis with an antifungal pharmacologic agent.

The LMRP can be found at www. trailblazerhealth.com



- Original Message -

I attended a meeting several weeks ago in which a speaker (a podiatrist)
stated that Trailblazer Medicare was going to increase the set time interval
between mycotic nail debridements from 60 days to 90 days. The speaker
warned that this could eventually be reviewed by other carriers, and could
potentially become a nationwide policy.

Our Medicare carrier is NHIC (New England), and haven't seen in print, or
heard of ,similar changes. Has anyone else heard of this?


Brunswick, ME



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 192.35.79.70 on May 14, 2003 8:56 AM

Posted on May 14, 2003, 12:46 AM
from IP address 67.249.33.14

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Re: 33% LESS Medicare money for DPM!!!

by Anonymous (no login)

Alright, so what does all of this actually mean for podiatry in the long run?

Posted on May 14, 2003, 7:40 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.151

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Less Medicare = Less Money

by Anonymous (no login)

How does the limitation of 6 months of onychomycosis mean to your check book?


The basis of podiatry is the toe nail paid by medicare. Who expects it to go down? Who expects medicare limiting the treatment of the most common ailment in Podiatry?

It looks like medicare is cutting back and back and back. Expect a smaller medicare check.

That means LESS patients, LESS money in your checkbook.

Can ANYBODY, even Stu Pod have another view?

Come on, Stu Pod, what is your opinion on Medicare dramaticly decreasing their reimbursement to podiatrists? MORE surgery?

Posted on May 15, 2003, 4:19 PM
from IP address 67.249.67.63

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question

by Anonymous (no login)

I was just wondering if the medicare cutbacks are across the board MD/DO or just podiatry?

Posted on May 15, 2003, 5:23 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.151

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not a foot doc

by (no login)

I have been following this forum for at least a year, I have never come across anything like it, I'm hooked. I'm also sad you've taught me a great deal. You taught me that many dpm's don't respect themselves or their profession, many of you have shown me that your education is substandard. I've also learned that Podiatry is not an exclusive profession such as Dentistry. I guess I've learned my lesson, go to an Ortho if you have a foot problem. I will never look at a Podiatrist the same again.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 12:50 PM
from IP address 216.76.209.67

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really sad

by A.A.D. (no login)

Whats really sad is if you are using only this forum as a basis for your conclusions. There are some podiatrists out there with substandard training just like they are some orthos out there with even worse training. Its like that in every profession.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 1:28 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Sorry Mark

by Anonymous (no login)

Mark, I too a very happy,successful, and well trained DPM would be concerned if I read this site as a lay person. This site is controlled by a handful of failures of the profession. Their goal is to poison the well to somehow get even. Many no longer practice and would probably be unsuccessful even if they had gone to Harvard Medical School.
As for your comment about going to an orthopedist that's your choice and perogative. There are some very good Orthopedic foot surgeons but there are also some very bad. Podiatric ankle and foot surgeons also come in all skill levels. My advice is to research any doctor you see since degree means nothing. A large percentage of my complicated reconstructive surgeries are referred by orthopedists and I have helped train orthopedists here and abroad. 3 of my residents who have graduated in the last 2 years have joined orthopedic practices to do all of their foot and ankle surgery.
To the Doom and Gloomers, I have said this a million times when you post on a forum open to the public you create more problems. You mislead the public, instigate lawsuits, and give our competitors information to use against us. Other professions choose to solve/ complain in private. Those of us who care in podiatry do the same. Your behavior and unprofessional approach may explain some of the reasons for failure.
My opinion

Posted on May 8, 2003, 7:05 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Totally disagree

by Anonymous (no login)

I don't believe your statement that you need to research any health care provider because "degree means nothing." Certainly researching any provider is a wise move... but evaluating the degree cannot be discounted.

By the time a foot/ankle fellowship-trained orthopaedic surgeon goes into practice he or she has been at the top rung of achievement multiple times over for many years. In order to get a competitive fellowship one needs to have performed well during their orthopaedic surgery residency. In order to get into orthopaedic surgery one needs to graduate at the top of his or her class from medical school (usually a top-rated med school). To get into this excellent medical school one needs to perform extremely well in college (often at a top-rated college). To get into these colleges one needs to perform extremely well in high school.

Therefore by the time it's time to begin practice they have been been designated as the cream of a very competitive crop over and over again since their teenage years.

Based on what I read in this forum, podiatrists can basically waltz into podiatry school with very little difficulty as these schools are looking to fill spots by any means necessary. Are these students therefore going to be the finest performers out there, or did those students go a different route for a reason? Am I wrong about the lack of standards to get into podiatry school? If so, please educate me. How difficult is it to get into a surgical residency after podiatry school?

I think a steady history of being at the top of the heap means something. Don't discount the degree.

Posted on May 9, 2003, 3:04 PM
from IP address 192.68.30.90

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Yes and no...

by (no login)

I will concede the fact that orthopods must do very well in med school to get their residency programs. I will also concede that just about anybody can get into pod school (and don't try to deny it - I was on the admissions committee, and I know it to be true).

What you need to know, though, is that many orthopods have little training in foot and ankle surgery. They may do a 6 month to year long fellowship, but they still have no idea of the biomechanics of the foot and ankle. I have seen some horrifically botched up foot jobs done by orthopods. Just because you learn how to cut on bones doesn't mean you should cut on every bone in the body.

True, there can be some awful jobs done by podiatrists, too. That is why it is important to check out your doc before getting any surgery.

As for me, I'm probably considered one of the "gloomers" since I don't practice, but I would certainly choose a podiatrist over an orthopod to do foot work (which I, by the way, desperately need, having painful hallux limitus bilaterally). I think that most (not all) DPM's who do at least 2 years of surgical residency are probably more competant than your average "foot and ankle" orthopod, and definitely more competant than an orthopod who did not do a foot fellowship.

And if I would choose a DPM (being a doomer and gloomer), you know this post means something!

Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM

Posted on May 9, 2003, 6:02 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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biomechanics

by student (no login)

Are you trying to say that MOST podiatrist know their biomechanics and this is what separate us from orthopods? PLEASE! I respect both dpms and orthopods the same. Just don't tell me that we are better because we know biomechanics. Most dpms, especially surgeons don't! (I didn't say all dpms!). I mean, they all pretend to and that is their cry for why they are better at the foot and ankle for so long...but I guarantee if you take a bunch of DPM surgeons into a room and talk biomechanics with them, you would be really disappointed. Oh, they'll know all the buzzwords like "thou shalt not varus" and stuff like that but so do the orthopods. YES, I know that we all took it in school and all of us own Dr.Root's book. Also, what's the difference between a psr-12 surgeon and an orthopod that did a 1 yr fellowship after 5 yrs of his or her orthopedic residency? The dpm's 1st yr was a rotating intership right? I mean, all the surgeries was probably left to the senior residents to get their #'s, right? Respectfully,
Student

Posted on May 11, 2003, 3:49 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.119

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Mechanics

by Jeffrey C. Davids (no login)

I didn't say that DPM's knew their biomechanics. Most probably know more about car mechanics than biomechanics. But they know more than any orthopod. Period.

Orthopods are trained to cut bones. They are not trained to cut (most) bones at specific angles. Ever see an orthopod do a TMA? The last one I saw left all the bones different lengths, and did not cut dorsal distal to plantar proximal. They left jagged edges, and the guy dehisced several times. It was just a bunch of bones to the orthopod. And have you ever seen a bunionectomy thru a completely medial incision without a lateral release?

My point is that DPM's are better trained in the overall mechanics of the foot (since they live it), and are better trained in the proper surgical techniques.

Whether or not the DPM does a good job is more a result of his or her own skills, and not that they were taught poorly.

Jeff

Posted on May 12, 2003, 7:44 PM
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ok

by student (no login)

I can see your point now. I agree. I still disagree with you that a dpm surgeon know more biomech. Well, maybe...but it's like comparing who know more biomech, a 1st grade or a kindergarten. IT's SAD.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 5:21 PM
from IP address 169.147.3.25

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Well then let any MD cut on you and good luck

by Anonymous (no login)

I stated that there are some very good foot and ankle surgeons that happen to be orthopedists but like it or not there are some very bad (even some who did foot fellowships). I also admitted that there are both good and bad podiatric foot and ankle surgeons. That's the difference, I can admit my profession has some who should not be performing foot surgery but your ego can not say the same about MDs.
Now I have lectured on several occasions with some of the top names in foot and ankle surgery from both the orthopedic and podiatric communities. The good docs have much in common and they help foot and ankle surgery advance to benefit patients.
Some orthopedic foot fellows (and from what I have seen sports medicine fellows) have been steered to these fellowship because they lack the skill to work on other anatomical areas. ( Better to cut the dosalis pedis vs the femoral artery). So put the MD ego away and realize being a good doctor isn't about degree as much as it is the individual.
To all heed this warning: investigate your doctor ask the tough questions and worry about skill/experience vs degree. DOs, MDs, and DPMs all have great surgeons. Who you pick will depnd upon who is in your area.

Posted on May 10, 2003, 8:15 AM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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what?

by student (no login)

What are you talking about? I am a DPM student. Read my post again.

Posted on May 11, 2003, 10:26 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.61

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RE:What?

by Anonymous (no login)

Reread my posts and you will see what I am talking about. Bottomline if your attitude is Orthopedists are all good and always better than DPMs then you will have some interesting wake up calls.
Degree means only that you met the requirements for graduation. There are excellent Foot and Ankle surgeons of all degrees MD, DO, and DPM. Conversely there are some hacks in all of those professions as well. You had better research the individual.
Plus if you are truly a student, my recommendation is to get out since you are not happy and will probably not do well with the attitude you have.
My opinion

Posted on May 12, 2003, 1:57 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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you should not assume!

by student (no login)

First of all, I said I respect DPMs and other doctors the same. Nowhere in my post did I say anything about who was better than who. Second, why would you assume that I hate what I was doing??? I love what I do. All I said was that to say we are better than they because we know biomechanics is hogwash. Most of DPM surgeons don't! And again, I didn't say ALL. I think a DPM that does mostly primary care and orthotics would know more about it than a DPM that does surgeries most of his days. You sound like you have a HUGE chip on your shoulder

Posted on May 13, 2003, 5:09 PM
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That's a new one

by Anonymous (no login)

You seamlessly went from what seemed to be a reasonable post (albeit one with which I disagree) to completely losing all credibility.

Orthopaedic surgeons who are steered into foot/ankle and sports medicine fellowships because they can't be trusted with operating in closer proximity to more vital structures? That's pretty laughable. Never heard that one.

What do you make of the podiatry situation in which there are apparently ZERO standards to get into podiatry school (confirmed multiple times in this forum)? You trust these low-achievers to become talented surgeons? Good luck.

I'll bow out at this point. To continue seems pointless after such a misinformed response.

Posted on May 12, 2003, 9:44 PM
from IP address 65.70.42.25

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Bow out if you like

by Anonymous (no login)

MDs are oftened steered to other sepcialties. And when you do practice and see what damage a bad surgeon of any degree can do you may need to rethink your position.
I know that there are orthopods who have taken fellowships for just the reason I gave. Not all but some.
Another riddle for you. General orthopdists routinely ask for full privileges be it foot, spine, pediatric, hand, joint replacements etc. Now is it that the fellowship people are truly better trained? If so why are general orthopods permitted to have the same privileges? Or is the fellowship required remedial training needed by some who need to specialize? I never could work that one out.
Certainly there are orthopedists who can do it all and there are fellowship trained ones who only improve already good skills but if you truly believe these top performing MDs are always the best you show how naive you are and will be dissappointed
My experienced opinion.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 12:04 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Re: Bow out if you like

by Anonymous (no login)

OK... I'll bite.

If you'll go back to my posts could you please refer me to the part where I say "all MD's are always the best"? You seem to be hung up on my making that assertion. The assertion is not there. You can stop attempting to find holes in that particular argument because it's not one that I made.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 5:54 PM
from IP address 192.68.30.44

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I totally agree- he lost it

by student (no login)

" Orthopaedic surgeons who are steered into foot/ankle and sports medicine fellowships because they can't be trusted with operating in closer proximity to more vital structures?" NO KIDDING! Besides, does he really think that the foot and ankle are not vital structures???? PLEASE!!

Posted on May 13, 2003, 5:15 PM
from IP address 169.147.3.25

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Wait and see for yourself

by Anonymous (no login)

I know it sounds crazy. But all I can say is wait and see for yourself. I think the foot and ankle are very important structures but as we know others for years did/do not.
I know a few MDs who were "convinced" that they would make a great family doc or psychiatrist once they were handed the knife during their surgical residencies. That's a good thing since the system worked. Not everyone who gets a surgical program has the tools to be a surgeon. These people have to make a living. In some cases either the program or the resident figure that out and they pick another specialty.
When most surgical programs began with 2 years in general surgery this could be determined and the appropriate changes could be made before they entered ortho or other specialties. Now with orthopedic residents beginning and ending in their specialty sometimes skills or the lack of do not show up until year 3 or 4. Now what? Unfortunately the pecking order of the foot is below the back, hand, or other larger structures. Some (not all there are some great foot orthopods) have been pushed to the foot.
Now we have the same problem without the benefit of podiatric psychiatry. When we accept a student into say a PSR-24 and it becomes apparent that they do not have the "tools" we are in a bind. If we let them go no state license, if we keep them sub standard surgeon. Thank God for wound care!!!!!
Sounds nuts but it's true and of course my opinion

Posted on May 14, 2003, 9:38 AM
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you have a valid point

by student (no login)

Now that you put it that way, you might be right. In the mean time, I respectfully disagree. I will see soon enough. One other thing, in the DO, MD world if you found out you don't like or won't be good in surgery, you have so many other options. In podiatry, if you found out you can't be good in sx, what do you do? Cut toenails and make orthotics all your life? That's kind of cruel.

Posted on May 14, 2003, 3:15 PM
from IP address 169.147.3.25

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Re: Wait and see for yourself

by Anonymous (no login)

Please provide some evidence in support of your assertion that some orthopedic residents have been steered towards foot/ankle surgery as other areas of the body have been declared too risky in their hands.

What is the orthopaedic pecking order of body parts?
Where is this information coming from? It's idiotic.

Posted on May 14, 2003, 7:28 PM
from IP address 65.70.42.25

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Yea right

by Anonymous (no login)

Like that will be published somewhere. It would be entitled scary orthopods. My only proof is working with orthopedists who have relayed this to me. Plus my "tools" arguement is common sense. Everyone knows that the skill level varies from doctor to doctor regardless of the degree.
You can't even get an orthopod to admit that some in their professiion shouldn't do any surgery let alone foot surgery in public. Now in private that's a different story.
Please answer the question I posed earlier: If fellowship trained orthopods receive extra training in their sub specialty why are the general orthopods granted full privileges. And if this extra training is not necessary then why is it available? Is it remedial?
My opinions

Posted on May 15, 2003, 1:15 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Re: Yea right

by Anonymous (no login)

Like ANY medical profession there are pathways available to become more and more subspecialized.

The orthopaedic foot/ankle fellowship is available in order to allow one to become a foot/ankle specialist and become comfortable with the entire array of foot/ankle surgery. A general orthopaedic residency gives one a strong basis (certainly varies with from program to program) in foot/ankle. A fellowship takes it to the next level.

You ask why a fellowship available if a general orthopaedist has priveleges to do the same cases as a fellowship-trained one? Most general orthopaedists will do basic foot/ankle work but will not tackle the more difficult foot/ankle problems. They may do bunions, simple ankle fusions, etc. but the majority of them will refer out the total ankles, tibiotalocalcaneal fusions, distal tibial osteotomies, etc. Most surgeons completing a foot/ankle fellowship are planning to join a practice to serve as the foot/ankle expert who is willing to take on any of these cases.

I don't know why all orthopaedists have priveleges to do any foot/ankle case they want. You'd have to ask the hospitals that give them these priveleges. I do know, though, if a general orthopaedist was doing total ankles and was doing them in a substandard manner they'd catch a ton of flack from the local foot/ankle orthopaedists. There are certain cases which are routinely thought of specialty cases and that's why the fellowship exists.

Posted on May 15, 2003, 7:21 PM
from IP address 65.70.42.25

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Nice try

by Anonymous (no login)

In my area the general orthopods treat everything( not insinuating that is necessarily bad it depends on the orthopod). Their treatment isn't always surgery either. Many feel that foot fellowship colleagues are unnecessary and unless they have on in their group will treat it themselves or God forbid send it to me or another DPM.
In addition many of our foot orthopods do more general ortho work than feet even thought they are supposedly getting all of these referrals you tout.
One other point I wish more would refer the bunions you mentioned since this is where a lot of the poor decisions are made versus complex reconstructions.
My opinion

Posted on May 16, 2003, 5:58 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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Re: Sorry Mark

by Anonymous (no login)

Whatever blaa blaa blaa you sound like the dean at my school when I interviewed. No matter what you say, you cannot make podiatry the fairy tale you wish it was.

Posted on May 9, 2003, 3:21 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.154

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Not the Dean

by Anonymous (no login)

Not the Dean just your worst nightmare: A happy well trained, successful DPM.

Posted on May 10, 2003, 8:16 AM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Worst nightmare

by Anonymous (no login)

My worst nightmare for sure was going into podiatry. You can try to convince yourself that podiatry is great and that is what you want out of life, but everyone knows that we get no respect from the community or health care professionals in general.

Posted on May 12, 2003, 10:38 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.91

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Speak for yourself

by Anonymous (no login)

Just because you're not respected, unhappy or any adjective you wish to add don't assume that fits the rest of us. Referrals to me from orthopedists and other MD/DOs and performing surgery on many of the OR and nursing staff is enough respect for me.
Just because something happens to you do not be so arrogant to assume we all are like you.

Posted on May 12, 2003, 11:28 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Re: Worst nightmare

by JeffB (no login)

I agree 100%

Posted on May 21, 2003, 8:45 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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O.K.

by Anonymous (no login)

Well then you are probably one of those dpm's that send in their survey saying they bring home 300k a year right. I can't believe the things I hear students saying about the podiatrist they rotated with or shadowed and they are bringing home 200-300k and the funny thing I know the podiatrist on a personal level and not one of them break 70 which is good for a any podiatris these days. So if you're the big ticket winner I am sure I heard your "stories"at a few conventions already.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 11:06 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.91

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Patten University classes

by sam (no login)

I have great interest in getting into Podiatry school. There is a university out here called Patten Univ. They have a science transfer program that they offer for 15 hours on the weekend for 4 weeks each class. I am asking anyone out there that as any experience in this matter. Has anyone heard of Patten Univer. and its transfer credibility? I am currently trying to resolve this with SMC podiatric school as well as the Ohio Podiatry school.
I am open to any helpful tips.
regards
Sam

Posted on May 9, 2003, 7:05 PM
from IP address 67.113.148.232

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Re: Patten University classes

by Anonymous (no login)

Don't go into podiatry. Study hard in undergrad and for the MCAT then go to medical school. That's the best advice I can give you.

Posted on May 10, 2003, 10:18 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.91

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Re: Patten University classes

by C (no login)

If podiatry is what you want to do for a living go to podiatry school. If you want to do another job then do it. I wouldnt listen to the posters on this board. Most of them are failed podiatry school dropouts who pretend to be docs. Visit a podiatrist and see for yourself. Thats the best advice I can give you.

Posted on May 12, 2003, 10:23 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Speak for Yourself

by J. Anderson (no login)

Please speak for yourself. If podiatry offers such profound opportunity why are there such a shortage of DPM applicants? Why are people rioting in the streets for podiatry care in foreign countries without DPMs.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 6:48 AM
from IP address 134.174.18.54

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my point exactly

by Anonymous (no login)

"if podiatry offers such profound opportunity why are there such a shortage of applicants" read this and tell me what you are trying to say. According to this statement it sums up my point. Podiatry does NOT offer profound opportunities of any sort. That is why most podiatrist are struggling. As for the shortage of applicants, that speaks for itself no one wants to go into podiatry for obvious reasons. The foreign country comment, that makes me laugh. Let me know when another one of those "riots" break out due to a shortage of podiatrist. I am still laughing!

Posted on May 13, 2003, 10:59 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.91

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Denial

by J. Anderson (no login)

Thanks for the note. I do not understand why some people are blinded by facts. Perhaps they are in some sort of denial after all the money, time, "schooling" etc... to find out that there is little opportunity out there and are stuck with huge ever growing podiatry student loans.

If podiatry is so crucial, so critical and necessary what do all the other countries other than USA, Australia, UK, and Canada do for ankle and foot surgery/medicine where there are no chiropodists/podiatrists?? Keep in mind all those countries listed above other than the US, the chiropodists/pods are severely restricted scope wise/training wise as to what they can do even removing a toenail or performing soft tissue procedures warts, callosities etc....

Posted on May 13, 2003, 1:33 PM
from IP address 134.174.18.54

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That's crazy

by Anonymous (no login)

With that thinking, DOs, NPs, PAs, and dentists performing maxillofacial surgery must not be important either. Most of those professions do not exist or limited in their scope in foreign countries. In some parts of the world family docs still deliver all babies and specialty care is nonexistant. So are those professions unncessary here in the USA?
Since there are no DPMs with our training in those countries the public doesn't have a choice and do not even know one exists.
Year long waits for elective surgery, black market care, no choice,and in some cases lack of research, equipment and certain specialites. Yea we should mimic their system. Next time a world leader needs care see where he/she flys to. And I am sure we have as many patients crossing into Canada and Mexico as come here each year for healthcare. Yea the public sure is lucky in those foreign lands and are getting much better care even for their feet. Geez maybe you should move their just for the healthcare?????

Posted on May 14, 2003, 11:27 AM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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That is good Podiatry thinking.

by Anonymous (no login)

Posted on May 15, 2003, 4:20 PM
from IP address 67.249.67.63

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Re: Denial

by JeffB (no login)

You took the words right out of my mouth. It is funny how some people on this board let the facts get in the way of the truth. THis field is a complete and utter disaster. I would be living in a shoe box if I stayed. By the way does anyone want to buy a nail clipper?

Posted on May 21, 2003, 8:48 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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Re: my point exactly

by cg (no login)

So how do you explain the shortage of dental students in the 80s? Many dental schools actually closed down.

Posted on May 14, 2003, 9:11 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Re: my point exactly

by cg (no login)

Podiatry Shortage Continues in Australia

A BRIDGETOWN senior citizen has been refused podiatry care in
the region and told to travel to Bunbury for treatment. Carmel Low
was told due to a shortage of podiatrists in the area she would need
to see a podiatrist in Bunbury. Warren-Blackwood area community
health manager Sharon McBride said there was a gap in care currently
with one part time podiatrist serving the entire region.
The problem first started in February when the region's long-
serving podiatrist left after 21 years. The situation has forced the
health service to restrict podiatry care to the more serious
cases. "We realise that a gap's been left and we're trying to do
things to see that it's fixed," she said. "The people we're
restricting the serve to is people with diabetes, severe foot
problems and children.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 11:26 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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shortage in Australia.

by Anonymous (no login)

Ain't no shortage in America.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 11:28 PM
from IP address 67.249.21.181

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Coversely

by Anonymous (no login)

Many on this site have touted nursing. Their high salaries and tremendous job opportunities. If that is the case why is there a shortage of nursing applicants and grads? Money/ jobs does not always dictate applicants.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 12:48 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Supply and Demand

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

"Many on this site have touted nursing. Their high salaries and tremendous job opportunities. If that is the case why is there a shortage of nursing applicants and grads? Money/ jobs does not always dictate applicants."

You have a point here, but remember that the job market for nursing is so great BECAUSE of the shortage. In other words, the shortage created the market. It's the same with pharmacy (which is what I would do if I could start over again). Not so in Podiatry, however. There is a shortage of students, but the market hasn't really taken notice.

I'll admit that the residency situation has probably improved greatly due to the shortage, but I doubt the job offers have. True, you will always have some docs who get great offers. I don't deny that. Those docs, however, are probably from the same residencies that always secured good jobs (Northern VA, Northlake, Waldo, Kern, etc.).

In the end, it's all about PR, people. If nobody knows what a podiatrist does (or we aren't on their insurance panels), they won't go see one.

Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM

Posted on May 14, 2003, 9:13 AM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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Agree

by Anonymous (no login)

Jeff I will agree that we have been our own enemies in regards to PR. This is one area I have always disagreed with the majority of the APMA leadership. I am a member and have served as a state officer and have always questioned the emphasis on care that will eventually be noncovered or handled by others. I remember being on the PR committee for a northern state and the best they could come up with was a poster contest in nursing homes. I wanted a Did you know campaign so that people would start to know who and what we are. I still fight that battle but as the profession changes and we have gained hospital access and scope people are finally seeing what we do. One of our problems is when we fight among ourselves and the limited scope DPM refers patients to orthopedists for rearfoot and ankle care or when the full scope trys do care they are not good at or bored with(foot care and orthotics). Until we all can do anything that walks in or we begin to refer like the dentists this will not change.
This profession is in a slump for applicants but as the incomes rises as all receive 2/3 year residencies and the graduate pool changes the employer to employee ratio we will se an increase. Now I hope when this occurs, we are better prepared to handle the graduates and make sure they all still receive good residency training.
We will never see a return to the applicant pools of the 80s. Foreign medical schools now with student loan options and residency placement has drained all of the second choice professions. Malpractice, negative effects of managed care,increased competiton all have affected this and other professions. This downturn I think has been a good thing atleast regarding employment and training. Now if we can get the schools from being so tuition driven the poor applicant may not get the chance to bring us down.
My opinion

Posted on May 15, 2003, 1:30 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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100% correct

by (no login)

I agree 100% with what you have said. I have always stated that we need to be able to treat EVERY single foot pathology that walks through the door in order to be considered the "foot and ankle authorities."

Although a system of referrals like the dentists use would also be a good idea, I still don't think we would be considered "major players" (to the MD's, or medical community, in general) under that model.

One issue regarding hospital affiliations: It is a double-edged blessing. While it is great for the profession to be able to treat patients in the hospital, and ER, etc., it doesn't really promote the profession to the lay publice. When I did my ER roration in residency, the patients merely thought of me as a "doctor," which was great, but how many of them actually learned what a "podiatrist" is? And how many of them would follow up with a podiatrist for future foot problems?

Jeff

Posted on May 15, 2003, 6:47 PM
from IP address 198.81.26.170

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Hospital PR

by anonymous (no login)

What I meant about hospital PR is that before we in the hospitals with full scope, nursing, staff, MDs, medical residents, administrators etc never interacted with podiatrists. They only time they saw us was when we were performing naul consults and when one of our complications was being handled by a medical specialist.
Now they can see what we do and that means a better understanding. That is why orthopedics fought so hard to keep us off staff. The next step requires more university penetration (full scope) so that we will be seen from the student level(medical, nursing etc.)
Everytime I achieved hospital access within 6 months the foot surgery referral patterns changed from MD to DPM. Not just to me but my colleagues.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 6:16 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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LOOKING UP

by QUI LE, DPM, MBA (no login)

I share your pain. I was once doublt in the profession of podiatry. I have been in practice for more than five years. As a profession, we have a major precetion problem among our peers. We have a classic disease which I call "M.D. Syndrome". The profession of podiatry is more lucrative than ever if once apply the technique of bussiness model. No physician, MD, DO, or DPM, is trained with the aspect of bussiness methodology. Therefore, the disappointment of the profession is not uncommon. Few suggestions: wound care, sport medicine, self-marketing, and surgery as the last alternative. Good Luck! look it up, I have builded a company in three years, and now we are one of the largest podiatry company in the state. The company operates eight offices and three physicians on staff.

Posted on May 30, 2003, 6:36 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Thank You

by (no login)

I want you to know I appreciated your response. I can see why you're succsessful because you take a pro active approach to your profession. Many people enter a profession for the wrong reasons. Let's face it it's nice to be called Dr. and make alot of money. From your message two things are apparent. One is that you respect yourself and your profession and the other is that you've networked well. The first trait is absolutely necessary.The other trait will help make you successful and respected by other health care providers. I can't judge whether there is an inherent flaw in podiatry or not but my guess is if there is, and I emphasise IF it was there when most of you chose to attend. You knew that you were receiving a DPM not an MD or DO you also are not receving an RN. You also were also aware that there are few or no DPM's at your local hospital. You knew this regardless of what your school admissions people said. I knew this and I have no connection to the medical/healthcare profession. So now that you have your DPM and spent 75-100k + for your education what do you do. Well let's see what do Phd's in english litterature do, or any liberal arts major who spent alot of time and money for a degree that may not yield them the big bucks. What about actors with masters degrees from Yale drama school havn't they earned the right to "make it." If they're smart they'll keep working at what they love. The MBA is not guaranteed a living but they already know this because they know that the world is a marketplace. The more that people want what you offer the more in demand you are, couple that with holding your head high and be proud of podiatry you are a member of the medical profession whether MD's agree or not. The oldest and most financially successful always hold the keys to the kingdom you knew that. And for those of you that are embarrassed about being Podiatric Physicians what do you gain by telling Pod students what problems await them. Whe're given one life, if you made a mistake going into Podiatry you wouldn't be the first to change careers. I know MD's that have left. I am a lawyer who doesn't practice Law,and yet I love what I'm doing now. The DPM that responded to my original message seems to "get it." Keep up with your skills and and keep aware of the market. One thing the aforementioned respondant has taught me seek out a Dr. that likes and respects what their doing. p.s. I've changed my mind I will once again seek out podiatrists not ortho's. THANK YOU!

Posted on May 10, 2003, 10:37 AM
from IP address 209.214.13.173

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Thank you

by Anonymous (no login)

Thank you for the kind words and an excellent post. Students please read the post closely. There are several important lessons in there.

Posted on May 12, 2003, 4:10 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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Unique Website

by Erin Girard (no login)

I also have never seen a website like this. I am a prospective student for medical school programs including podiatry. Why would someone state these things if they weren't true? I called the podiatric colleges association and they are still accepting applications for this year-which is unusual since most medical colleges have finished their evaluation process and are deciding on wait-list apps. I also spoke with my primary doc and he knew very little about podiatry.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 7:22 PM
from IP address 206.243.39.17

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Tell your friends.

by Anonymous (no login)

This Forum is about the politics in podiatry and not about the quality of the work that Podiatrists do.

There is a diffence.

I don't remember seeing one post on the quality of the education or the quality of the standard of care.

You can choose a podiatrist or a family doctor or a nurse or an orthopedist. It is your choice.



Posted on May 9, 2003, 2:26 AM
from IP address 67.249.81.107

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Brian Gale, DPM and APMA

by Richard Willner DPM (no login)

RE Brian Gale and the APMA

If anybody other than Brian Gale knows this entire story, it is me as I ran the Brian Gale Defense Organization.

The Doctor who posted last week had stated it well, but missed some important details.

If anyone would like to review how the APMA "worked" the Brian Gale - Morth Dakota Board of Podiatry matter, just Email me at

RW@BrianGale.com

The TRUTH is obvious wnen you have the entire set of documents to review and share.

My name, address, phone, and emails are posted for a very good reason. I am responsible for my posts. I have nothing to hide.

Let's communicate today.

Rich Wiullner, DPM
President and Founder
The Center for Peer Review Justice, Inc.

504-621-1670

LEGAL@PeerReview.org
Info@PeerReview.org

Posted on May 8, 2003, 12:02 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Anyone?

by A.A.D. (no login)

Well its obvious that we (the current 4th year students who post here sometimes) and you (gloomers who are unhappy with podiatry) will not agree on the direction that podiatry is heading or even if its a viable career choice. So I ask one question. I know you guys keep saying that it is next to impossible to make a living as a podiatrist. So explain how it is that we are seeing many new podiatrists get great offers right after residency. Do me and Stu Pod just happen to see the only 15 people making it in podiatry this year and the other 500 or so graduates that we dont see are the ones failing miserably? How is that possible?

We have gone to several surgical residencies and spent one or 4 months at each of those. Stu pod and I spent months at at least 10 different surgical programs between the two of us and have visited several others plus have talked to classmates about even more programs that they were at. At EVERY ONE we were seeing senior residents that were getting offers better than anything you guys are mentioning. This is why we are positive about our futures. It isnt ego driven or arrogance. We are going to be trained at the same programs as these residents and expect to get similar offers. So why would you say podiatry is a bad career (other than you failed at it) I doubt I will get any reasonable response other than thats just the way it is. You can complain all you want about lack of respect, lower medicare reimbursements, over saturation, etc. but I have not seen any evidence of this no matter what part of the country I go to. So forgive me for being so blatently dismissive of your comments.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 7, 2003, 11:00 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Same

by Anonymous (no login)

AAD,

Not sure who you are, but I am also a classmate of Stu Pods and have seen the same. I am sure there are some out there that are having trouble, so I don't doubt the comments made on this forum, but I disagree that it is the norm. From what I have seen, and the people that I have talked to, the majority seem to be doing quite well.

Personally I have no doubt that I will have no difficulty in this field. It suits me quite well, and I have put in the effort to make sure that I have ample opportunity to do so. I am sure that I will have no trouble paying off my loans. I am positive that I will not only be able to do that, but will also live quite comfortably.

I am at a stage where I think it is almost pointless to keep wasting time arguing with the "doom and gloomers" on this forum. They don't care to hear anything from "current students" anyway. They seem to have a more self-centered agenda focused on trying to disuade any new students from entering the field.

Best of luck to all. Your "realities" seem quite different from what I have seen.

ES

Posted on May 8, 2003, 12:23 AM
from IP address 63.186.0.77

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thanks

by A.A.D. (no login)

good point. missed you tuesday night for happy hour pizza.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 4:47 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

Keep in mind you have a FEW people that post here continually that have admitted in the past that their sole motivation is revenge against the profession. Others have hinted that the more students they scare away, the less competition that they will have.

In the past, I spent many hours on the forum trying to pass along advice that I received from extremely successful podiatrists. Others did the same. Then it became obvious that most of the posts here were from these same half dozen individuals just trying to scare students away. As per the disclaimer, they can give the impression that things are alot worse than they really are.

Don't try to confuse the Doomers and Gloomers with facts, statistics, surveys, trends, and personal observations from across the country. They will continue to deny what you and I know to be true, and have no interest in the further advancement of the profession.

My opinion.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 2:03 AM
from IP address 12.83.150.60

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Great Jobs? I don't see it.

by (no login)

Great Jobs for new residents? I don't see them.

I see that the ones who go to work for orthopedic groups make very good money. But, that is still a few folks.

In he main, I don't see the great jobs with the great money and i am in the consulting business. We get to see the contracts rather than to listen to locker room talk about whose (contract) is bigger than whose.

The Center is available to help others with their contracts. Just Email us and we will go to work

Richard Willner, DPM
Presient
The Center for Peer Review Justice, Inc
Globe Homstead Bank Building
4051 Veterans, Suite 206
Metairie (New Orleans), LA 70002

Posted on May 8, 2003, 11:54 AM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Rich

by Anonymous (no login)

Rich I respect what you do but it is true. I review several DPM contracts a year and receive 30+ flyers per year for positions. The opportunities are incredible. When I finished residency it was open up or buy a practice. My kids are getting offers of 70-125,000 before bonuses. Even some of the DPM groups are offering 6 figures. Now I will concede my residents are full scope trained and an awesome grab for a busy practice. But when you look at the big picture, how many of these opportunities existed when you graduated? Now hospital privileges are given. Not the same in our generation. And the fact we are even talking about DPMs in ortho groups is something we would have never believed possible when I graduated in the mid 80s. Co-ownership of surgery centers with MDs, I mean Rich give in a little this profession has jumped light years in 15 years. I mean exfix courses, AO fellowships, arthroscopy.
Things are changing my friend for the better.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 7:14 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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thanks

by A.A.D. (no login)

Appreciate having someone contradict Dr. Willner. Im sure he serves an important function in his company but I think he must be out of touch with podiatry now. Everything is better than it used to be and should continue to improve with the new residency models. Salaries continue to go up, we are respected in the medical communities (ortho groups wouldnt hire pods if we werent respected by them), and training is becoming more standardized with everyone getting surgical training.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 9, 2003, 11:44 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Re: Great Jobs? I don't see it.

by Anonymous (no login)

How much do your services cost?

Posted on May 8, 2003, 7:19 PM
from IP address 24.73.160.198

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Hey webmeister -Pop ups

by footdoc (no login)

they're getting out of hand, I couldn't kill them the last time I logged on and had to shut down my browser

Posted on May 7, 2003, 8:24 AM
from IP address 205.185.133.110

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Re: Hey webmeister -Pop ups

by Anonymous (no login)

Buy some pop up blocking software such as ad-subtract. It works

Posted on May 27, 2003, 11:20 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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?Seavers Disease?

by Celia (no login)

A friend of my son is 12 and had been dxed with Seavers Disease. (not sure of spelling). I am having a hard time finding any information. Any help is appreciated. thanks

Posted on May 6, 2003, 8:38 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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Sever's Disease

by Stu Pod (no login)

Do an i-net search with this spelling and you should find alot more information. If you need more help, let us know.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 2:10 AM
from IP address 12.83.150.60

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Sever's disease

by (no login)

Sever's disease is not a disease. It is the detachment of the retro calcaneal growth plate of the heel bone. Usually found in males of your son's age group.It can be very painful. Usually the child is active and involved in sports.Raising the heel with cork implants (1/2 inch) can be useful followed by icing(see icing elsewhere)post activity with elevated rest.
Foot orthoses are not indicated initially, although, they may be required in the future. Stretching exercises of the achilles tendon will also help in the future but certainly not now. Ask an experienced, knowledgible Podiatrist on how to perform these exercises for it is important that the stretching is symmetric. Consult your Podiatrist now.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 2:37 PM
from IP address 213.122.208.232

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Botox

by MD student (no login)

Hello:
Any DPMs out there have extensive experiences with treating hammertoes with Botox? I would like to know if you find it a good/very good modality. Thank you very much!

ms4

Posted on May 6, 2003, 5:33 PM
from IP address 169.147.3.25

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Botox???

by footdoc (no login)

I have never heard of this, and after pondering on the mechanism of botox, I could not think of any reason why it would be useful in the treatment of hammertoes.
Perhaps you could enlighten us further?

Posted on May 7, 2003, 8:09 AM
from IP address 205.185.133.110

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botox

by MD student (no login)

Well...I would tell you to open some journal articles and find out for yorself, but anyways...Dr. Jacobs, DPM from St. Louis tried using it on hammertoes of patients and he had some success. I was just curious as if any of you guys are using it on more than 50 patients. Thanks!

Posted on May 8, 2003, 4:53 PM
from IP address 169.147.3.25

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It's a joke

by Anonymous (no login)

It is hilarious that only the people in the podiatry community (the naive students anyway) think that this is such a booming profession. Come on, are you the only smart ones that knows something that no one else does. If it's such a lucritive profession why can't the schools fill the seats? The past several years have been the lowest enrollment status in history for podiatry. It is a joke!! I commend the youngsters for battling for podiatry due to the fact that they made a bad decision when deciding to go into podiatry instead of medical school, but fact is you are fighting for a lost cause!

Posted on May 5, 2003, 7:50 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.241

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the real joke

by Stu Pod (no login)

The real joke is the Doomers and Gloomers on the far left side of the income curve telling us that this is a dead profession just because they haven't made it yet.

We are expected to ignore our observations of the 100 plus podiatric physicians that we encounter during our education, the fact that net income continues to rise, patient visits continue to increase, residency training continues to improve, and the fact that new residency graduates are getting great job offers.

You may convince a prospective student or two that this is a dead profession, but don't expect the rest of us to buy it.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 3:15 PM
from IP address 12.83.150.38

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Re: the real joke

by dpm student (no login)

"The new residency graduates are getting great job offers" I just don't see it. I hope you are right because I am a dpm student that is getting more discouraged everyday. I came to school with the expectations of becoming a respected doctor that was going to make a decent living. That is not what I am experiencing. There are a few podiatrist that seem to be doing o.k. The length of our school and training is comparable to MD/DO yet we, at least I am, praying that I will find a job. They our guaranteed a 120k at the absolute minimum no matter what residency they do family practice or any primary care. I wishe I would have listened to the "gloomers" now I am stuck with enormous debts that I don't even know if I will ever be able to pay off. Podiatry sucks. Anyway, if you could post some of those "great job offers" I would certainly appreciate it. I need something to cheer me up.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 9:13 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.91

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DPM Student

by J. Anderson (no login)

Hard work and substance may get you only so far, however, after the residency game, you must acquire a job that pays enough for the large students loans and provide for yourself (and medical/dental benies) and a family if you have one. It can be quite challenging, one of my attendings after residency stocked the shelves at night at the nearby grocery to help pay a portion of the loans in addition to his podiatry job.
Speak to many, hospital administrators, insurance panels, DPMs, MD, etc for job prospects, and true career moves. It can be done, however, a MD/DO/DDS/PT/PA degree provides a much more tangible career ops and pay scales.

Best wishes.

Posted on May 7, 2003, 12:00 PM
from IP address 134.174.248.160

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Re: DPM Student

by CG (no login)

I have spoke to my attendings any fellow residents and they tell me the oportunities are out there. My god you have a terrible personality, no wonder you cant make it your attitude is horrible. You claim to be a professional, but all you do is try to break students down and discourage others. You should take a look in the mirror and maybe there you will get answers on why you have failed. I hope you take this constructively, but I would guess you wont. Heres a little piece of free advice "only losers sit back(behind a computer in your case, thats the sad part) and bitch and moan and try to make others feel bad so they can justify their own failure. Its not your fault your miserabe, its PODIATRY who is responsible. You poor thing I feel so sad for you J.

Posted on May 16, 2003, 11:45 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Unprofessional Podiatric Behaviour

by J. Anderson (no login)

Dear Sir/Madam:

Before you revert to presenting a state of "miserable personality", or "failure" in "podiatry" on someone who may disagree with your viewpoints-all view points must be considered on this board--without a personal slam or one word replies. Are you a BC psychiatrist/psychologist whereby you can render a psychiatric WU from a brief reply? Is someone who disagrees with your opinions labelled as "disgruntled", "negative", " positive", or have a neurosis?

I have taught at the podiatric schools, given money to PPAC, and sat on admissions boards, and taught formally residents and can only report factually what I have seen and my colleagues and I have experienced. Are you going to pay for the podiatric docs that do not make it and can not pay their living expenses/huge student loans when they are 30,40, 50 years young?

If you would like to debate the issues in a professional manner please do so without pejorative remarks, personal insults, and emotional outbursts that do more harm to your cause than an objective, detached factual response based on stats, real life experience swith hospitals, HMOs, health insurance panels, and admissions committees, and podiatry schools issues.

Thank you.
J. Anderson

Posted on May 18, 2003, 10:43 AM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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Re: Unprofessional Podiatric Behaviour

by Anonymous (no login)

Professional is something you have not been since you started posting on this board. You have done nothing but discourage and degrade students and others on this board. Constructive is one thing sir, but you have been downright negative,unsupporting and condesending.

Posted on May 20, 2003, 6:34 PM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Guilty as Charged

by J. Anderson (no login)

Dear Sir/Madam:

If "discouraging" and "degrading" students is stating them facts and real life experiences from over 10 years experience not PR rhetoric or student experiences with biased teachers-then I am guilty as charged anonmymous.

Posted on May 21, 2003, 10:49 AM
from IP address 170.223.175.29

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

If you truly believe that "podiatry sucks", then no amount of advice is going to make you successful.

The motivated and well-trained grads of today that I've met ARE getting great job offers. I've seen ranges from $70,000-$120,000 from the residents at the surgical programs I visited.

However, whiners need not apply for those positions.

Posted on May 7, 2003, 12:22 PM
from IP address 12.83.149.37

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Get out while you still have a buck left in your pocket

by Anonymous (no login)

Most of the 100 plus attendings you meet during podiatry school are employed by the institution so you are not getting unbiased opinions. You are only a student and most of the people posting on this board have been in practice. You call us doomers and gloomers, but we are giving you the FACTS. You feel like many of us did when we were in school. You are so wrapped up in your every day schedule of classes and clinics you are not able to see the real truth. Listen to the people who have been in the trenches, not the docs making $50 an hour in the clinic so they can get health benefits they couldn't pay for themselves

Posted on May 21, 2003, 9:01 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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biased opinions

by A.A.D. (no login)

You are sadly mistaken if you think that we (current students) get all of our info about podiatry from our school. We all know that they will paint a rosy picture. I base my opinions on what I saw on my 4th year rotations. I rotated at several hospitals, with many podiatrists in private practice in several cities, some knew graduates and some in practice over 30 years. I think I saw a good variety while I was out. EVERY SINGLE ONE was making it. Even a lady one year out of a 3year residency that started up a practice from scratch in my hometown was making enough to live off of. We know what current residents are being offered this june when they graduate. Opportunites are out there and its not just blind faith on the students parts. We have done the research and have planned out our futures. We know what to expect and are working hard to make sure it happens.

we call you doom and gloomers because you dont even remember why you got into podiatry or maybe you got into it for the wrong reasons. Then when it turned out that it was a career for fast and easy money you left and feel that it cheated you. podiatry is becoming a more respected profession because we are getting rid of people like you.

Posted on May 22, 2003, 10:20 AM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Re: biased opinions

by Anonymous (no login)

4th year student:

Do you really feel or think that this older podiatrist "is a disgrace"?

Remember that we were "hotshots" also in our 4th year.
We leared a bit of life outside of the schools. We respect that. If you respect our opinions, that is fine. If not, keep it to yourself. That is what
professionalism is all about.

Posted on May 22, 2003, 11:27 PM
from IP address 67.248.251.39

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is a disgrace

by A.A.D. (no login)

I do think this podiatrist is a disgrace to the profession when he holds his own single experience up as proof that this profession is dying or already dead. Gloomers on this board say we are just 4th year students and do not know anything outside of schools. I will admit that was more truthful before my 4th year. But during my 4th year I made many connections with doctors outside of schools and residency programs that were successful and looking for new partners. Gloomers hold their so called "facts" about not being able to make money and I and Stupod are supposed to just say, "You must be right even though we have seen very different things during our rotations. But we are just 4th year students and really dont know anything." We are not reciting the garbage that schools feed new students. We are basing our opinions on what we see out in the real world from private practice opportunities offered to new resident graduates. These are not made up. Everyone in our class got a surgical residency. Most got a 2 or 3 year surgical residency. We are coming out better trained and on a more equal level as other doctors. No, we wont make as much as neurosurgeons in private practice. But the average salary over $100,000 is not a myth. I have seen too many examples of this to believe a bunch of gloomers I have never seen over the actual podiatrists I spent time with that are making this money.

I in no way mean to disrespect anyone on this board but many of the statements made are flat out lies. I respect you if you say you struggled or are struggling or left the profession, but do not try to make that true for everyone. There are many people succeeding in this profession and many new graduates are being rewarded for their hard work and increased training. I dont care if some of you think I am just a "hotshot 4th year" because in the end all that matters is how I do for myself and my family. I have no problems expressing the true state of this profession with anyone that is willing to present facts to back up their statements and not just a handful of failing podiatrists. Every field has its share of failures and just because you spend lots of money on education doesnt guarantee you a good job. If you went into podiatry with that notion then you started off on the wrong foot. A lot more than that goes into being successful.

Posted on May 23, 2003, 2:09 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Re: is a disgrace

by 1st year out (no login)

AAD, I suggest you listen to what the people on this board have to say because you dont want to end up like them. With that being said alway remeber you dont go to peewee herman to learn how to box and you dont go to mike tyson to learn how to act so dont go to doctors who are failures to learn how to run a business. Stick with the doc you know and can speak to in person and you will be ok.
1st year out

Posted on May 24, 2003, 10:30 AM
from IP address 141.150.48.182

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Re: biased opinions

by Anonymous (no login)

I can speak for myself and I have been out for 5 yrs now. It is tough out here, but you can make a great living if you have the fortitude to hang on.
I agree with you when you say most student do not get their info from the school, but from practicing doctors and research.

Posted on May 23, 2003, 2:37 PM
from IP address 141.150.96.155

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Wrong

by A.A.D. (no login)

I don't believe that anyone truly believes that podiatry is an exploding career choice where easy money will be made. Thats just plain stupid. I may only be a fourth year and I have seen enough newly graduated residents receive offers much higher than people on the forum will admit to. I am not just standing up for podiatry to keep from admiting I made a mistake. Some people may have made a mistake but I definately did not. I have enjoyed the majority of my experiences so far and especially my several months I spent with different pods in private practice (at least 8 in different areas of the country). All were doing fine (even the new startup in my hometown was making enough money to pay bills and be comfortable). So while you may resent podiatry and the opportunities that you failed to take advantage of, I look forward to both the challenge and enjoyment of podiatry. I may be naive but I am not so stubborn as to not change to fit into the ever changing world of podiatry. In my (limited) experience podiatrists are better trained, better prepared, better paid, and more respected in the medical communities I have visited. If that is not the case for you then you and I have never crossed paths and I am inclined to believe you have never attempted to find a place like that.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 3:16 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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30 Percent of Production.

by (no login)

RE My last Young Podiatrists Contracts that I have seen state that the Junior guy will earn 30 Percent of production.

If he does 200K a year, then he grosses 60K. And, he pays all expenses including Malpractice Insurance and taxes.

I recall when that number was 50 percent, but with time passing, the number gets lower and lower.

Posted on May 4, 2003, 10:29 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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out of touch

by Stu Pod (no login)

All of the residency grads I met that shared their employment information had deals that guaranteed them at least $70,000 plus insurance and benefits, with bonus potential to do much better. The residency director that frequently posts here has backed that up on numerous occasions. 40 or 45 % of production was tied to the bonus amount usually.

Some may be willing to take 30% and in some situations it might even be an appropriate percentage, but it is not the "going rate".

If you think starting salaries are going down now that most everyone is getting surgical training, you are out of touch.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 8:58 PM
from IP address 12.83.151.157

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30% sounds very right.

by Anonymous (no login)

Yes, the number that i use is 30% also. I can see a 25% figure in the future as the expenses are increasing.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 11:19 PM
from IP address 67.249.44.49

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Podiatry sounds disastrous

by visitor (no login)

After seeing flyers touting podiatry as better than law school, I looked into the profession a bit. While I am not here to question the medicine or the training (I am sure there are some very intelligent and skilled DPMs out there), one must question the viability of the career. It is highly risky to invest at least four years and 100-200K+ on a career that may or may not pan out. Hell, I am thinking about DDS or MD/DO, and I am worried about how I will ever pay for those loans, especially if I don't get into my state school and have to go private...btw, I would rather attend my in-state school, U of MN, for either than attend even the most ritzy private school. UMN costs as much as a private school anyway now! Back to my point, Podiatry, even if one loves the career and genuinely wants to do it, is too risky. At that level of indebtedness, it becomes a virtual make or break proposition for life. Other health professions will almost certainly be able to overcome debt to make at least a comfortable living, but with DPM and DC, it seems dicey at best.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 8:15 PM
from IP address 216.185.205.122

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Doomer/Gloomer

by (no login)

According to many on this board/forum, your message can definitely be defined as doom and gloom. As such, your information is to be considered as having no merit, or have any basis in reality.

But, thank you for your obviously wrong opinion of podiatry and chiropractics. Even though it sounds like you have invested a great deal of due diligence in your investigation of future medical careers, one of us must be wrong and it can't be me. I am sure that at least four of every ten graduating podiatrists will do very well after about 15 years of practice.

Seriously, all sarcasim aside, from one doomer/gloomer to another, thank you for your hopefully unbiased opinion based on real life investigation.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 12:06 AM
from IP address 216.119.3.211

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actually it's not doom and gloom

by Anonymous (no login)

it is very realistic to consider podiatry a risk. Most make it some don't- is it worth the risk? When i was young and stupid it was worth the risk and i have fallin into the category of "making it" I certainly tell any potential student about this risk it doesn't make him or her a doom and gloomer.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 6:38 PM
from IP address 24.73.160.198

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Sounds Disastrous

by (no login)

While everyone has to make a decision as to the risk vs. benefit ratio for their own lives, your own decision not to go into podiatry cannot be applied universally. I might recommend that you do the same type of analysis on the cost of becoming a commercial airline pilot compared to the risk of becoming unemployed.

I have been in the podiatry profession for 24 years, and have been a teacher in the profession for 15. I have seen many students and residents come and go, and I do maintain contact with them. What I have found is that some do make it very well and live more than comfortably, some make it fairly well, and some make it not well at all. Indeed there are a few who totally leave the profession.

I would advise that you do a little more research by visiting with both those who have made it very well and those who have not. Find out what made the successful ones do well and what made the unsuccessful ones fail. Your criticism of the DC profession as being too risky has been proved incorrect by thousands of individuals and will continue to be proved incorrect by thousands to come. What the podiatry profession does not need is another person whining about it and waiting for others to do something. Instead we need positive minded individuals who have vision and strong work ethic, to make it what it can and should be.

Best wishes to you in your pursuit of a career in other pathways.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 6:24 AM
from IP address 68.54.151.58

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Thanks Dr. Phillips

by A.A.D. (no login)

Thanks for an insightful reply to all the doom and gloomers here that say podiatry has ruined their lives. I agree 100% with you that many people do and will continue to make it in this profession. While several people fail at this profession it is my belief that it is not a flaw with the profession but rather a flaw with that individual or their business strategy. If these people spent half as much time trying to improve their training, marketing, and personal skills as they do whining on this site they would be instant millionaires.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 6:07 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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gotta believe

by footdoc (no login)

your "belief" is called "shooting the messenger", AKA
"blaming the victim"...

Sincerely, I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours

Posted on May 7, 2003, 8:17 AM
from IP address 205.185.133.110

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Are things better or worse?

by Anonymous (no login)

Do you see that things are getting better in podiatry or worse?

Posted on May 5, 2003, 11:20 PM
from IP address 67.249.44.49

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Things are better and worse

by (no login)

Dear Anonymous,

I hope that you are not the same anonymous that I replied to 10 days ago. As you may notice, it is only on occasion that I have the time to visit Podiatry Forum. The rest of my time is spent doing things that really mattter.

As to your question whether things are better or worse? The answer is "YES". Things are much better and things are much worse. We wanted parity 25 years ago. We as a profession have worked for that, and today we are very close if not almost there. Who would have thought even 5 years ago that there would be more residency programs than students to fill them? What a welcome change! And to see 2 years of training now becoming mandatory. That's wonderful. To see all types of medical groups advertising for podiatrists to join them was almost unbelievable 20 years ago. To see now only a few hospitals who do not want podiatrists shows a great change of attitude in the medical profession.

Of course things are much worse for medicine in general. I have not encouraged my children to enter medicine because the entire medical field is much worse than it use to be. Doctors have lost the confidence of the public that they once enjoyed. Much of that loss of confidence was well earned by those who committed all types of incompetence and fraud in their chase of the almighty dollar. The entire medical field is seeing practitioners leaving every discipline. Podiatry has only suffered about as much as everyone else.

One other thing that is definitely worse is a decline in the dedication of the profession to the understanding of the biomechanics of the foot. We find the attitude everywhere that unless you are standing in an operating room with scrubs on, you're not a real doctor. Fortunately I work with a great group of MDs and DOs, none of whom do surgery, none of whom suffer from any type of insecurity that they are not real doctors. As a result the podiatry profession is now seeing an incursion into areas of nonsurgical biomechanical treatments of the feet by a great many other professions. That is not a good thing for the profession.

So what am I saying? It's as good or bad as you want it to be. Your glass can be half full or it can be half empty. I have seen many students and residents who can only see that their glasses are 10% empty. No one else is going to fill that glass for you. You have to do it yourself, and help everyone else get their glasses full.

Best of wishes to you.
Robert D. Phillips, DPM

Posted on May 15, 2003, 8:55 AM
from IP address 205.128.215.151

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Do Schools address these Risks?

by (no login)

Do the Podiatry Schools address these risks?

Does Admissions even know about these risks?

Should the Schools tell the Applicants about these risks or just paper them over?

These are problem unique to podiatry as general medicine does not have hem.

Richard Willner, dpm

Posted on May 5, 2003, 2:15 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.9

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A nightmare

by dont do it (no login)

It is disatrous, absolutely horrific.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 7:37 PM
from IP address 192.189.247.241

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

Before proclaiming that podiatry is "too risky", you might want to research the profession more than "a bit" as you stated. You certainly need to research beyond this forum. As many have eloquently stated, you can't compare the opportunities of podiatry grads today to those of five or ten years ago.

I don't know of any career that is a sure thing, especially for certain personality types, but I think Dr. Phillips' post offers some sound advice for success in any field. Study those that do well versus those that don't, learn from it, and be prepared to apply those lessons to your own career.

While the Podiatry Forum is not representative of our profession as a whole (read the disclaimer), if you can sort through all of the revenge-motivated posts, you'll find some good examples of what to do, and good examples of what NOT to do.

Best wishes to you.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 9:49 PM
from IP address 12.83.151.157

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reality reply

by anon (no login)

First, Stu Pod, let me remark that your writing style appears different (better) in this posting than in other postings.
Let me state that going into podiatry is risky and that you can compare podiatry from one decade to another.
Don't conclude that the great podiatry underclass is comprised of people with inherent flaws...blindness, bad breath, personality disorders, extreme clumsiness

Stu, it doesn't really matter what changes are made in pod education and training, you will face professional discrimination when you practice and it will affect you financially.
I'm a DPM and an MD.







Posted on May 6, 2003, 9:12 AM
from IP address 63.185.49.118

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Doctors are sure things.

by Anonymous (no login)

The whole idea of becoming a doctor is that it is a sure thing. That is why one spends a decade of one's life in training and spends hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Medicine will always get you a job.
DDS the same.

Podiatry is a struggle from day one til you retire.
This is a profession based on the generousity of Medicare and as such, one can not depend on that for one's income.

It is the truth, regardless of what the learned Senior Students opine.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 9:04 PM
from IP address 67.249.44.248

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yessir

by anon (no login)

you are correct sir.
many podiatrists have large, expanding school loan debt hanging over their heads. many will struggle for their lifetimes and still not repay the loans.
This forum contains all the numbers you need to know. You may have to borrow $160,000 or more. If you are fortunate enough to do a good residency you may get a job that pays $75,000. That seems to be the number defined as a good job. In the mean time your student loan principle has increased to$190,000.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 5:42 PM
from IP address 63.185.49.165

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Young Practitioners

by Evan Gross, DPM (no login)

My best word of advice to new practitioners that are interested in buying a podiatry practice is to work as an associate for several years before buying-out another podiatrist. This will allow you to establish the production and not get totally screwed by buying into production that doesn't exist. In other words, DO NOT buy a practice before you have worked as an associate for at least 2 years.

Posted on Apr 30, 2003, 10:00 PM
from IP address 63.215.159.108

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My advice

by Anonymous (no login)

This is great advice for DPM's that have already finished school and are in their residency programs now. For the rest of the students still in school my advice is to get out now while you can. Don't let the lure of podiatry keep you in a profession that is a dead end. Don't rely on this information alone. Contact local podiatrist and ask them, the majority of them are struggling. Be informed, but don't take too long or you too will be stuck in a dying field.

Posted on May 1, 2003, 10:02 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.157

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

Dear Gloomer: This must be the only "dying field" where avg. net income continues to rise (currently >$130,000), patient visits per month continue to increase (with more baby boomers on the way), and residency training and scope of practice continue to improve.

Posted on May 1, 2003, 5:13 PM
from IP address 12.83.149.128

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Re: reply

by Anonymous (no login)

I don't want to sound like a gloomer by any means. I just want people to realize the situation that they may be getting themselves into. You say that the average net income continues to rise. Well, the average national minimum wage continues to rise as well, yet we have the highest unemployment rate,state to state, the highest in 30 years. If you know absolutely, positively that podiatry is where you want to be, then I believe you should pursue it. Don't listen to me but on the other hand please don't be satisfied by one person saying that things are grand for podiatrist. Do your research and if you dont know for sure this is where you should be, then do some serious self reflection and make a wise choice. I also want people to know how they come up with thes "average incomes" they do a national survey in which people reply. There may only be 100 responses usually less and for the most part these are the ones that are doing o.k. and they are willing to let everyone who will listen know about it. Just make the decision you are happy with, you will be the one that has to live with that decision the rest of your life. You may make a decent living at it as well, there are some that do. I wish the best of luck to all of you.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 10:30 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.79

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

The latest survey had almost 4,000 responses.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 5:22 PM
from IP address 12.83.151.136

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Did you consider this in the stats you keep quoting?

by anon (no login)

The low income figures could be deleted from the survey results. Also pods with low incomes can't afford to be members (or are not happy with the lack of action of the various podiatric associations) and since they are not members, their low income figures are not reported in surveys. I'm not a member of the APMA so they don't know how low my income is.

You'll see how the profession is booming when you get out there and practice podiatry. And just a bit of advice, don't use "Podiatric Surgeon" on your signage this actually scares people away because they assume that all you do is surgery.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 11:44 AM
from IP address 24.112.9.46

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missing the point

by A.A.D. (no login)

Im sure that Stu Pod has considered that the APMA survey does not represent the entire profession of podiatry. Rather his point was to show that the average salary continues to go up even though the gloom & doomers here say you cant make any money. Averages tell a general picture and take into account both the highs and lows of the profession. No one is guaranteed to make the average salary, but it shows the trend in podiatry is higher salaries.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 4:22 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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But wait.......

by (no login)

I wonder how the increase of average podiatry salaries compares to the increase of the cost of living stats?

And if that question does not make sense to you, then you have no business going into any business, especially podiatry.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 12:15 AM
from IP address 216.119.3.211

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

Low salaries were not deleted from the survey, which gave an avg. net income of >$130,000. Other non-APMA surveys have reported similar figures.

While I don't doubt that non-APMA members make somewhat less than APMA members, new doctors were well-represented in the survey.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 5:37 PM
from IP address 12.83.151.136

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I'm never asked for my gross or net for surveys...

by anon (no login)

last year my gross was $52k. So an average net income of $130k seems like a totally fictional number (I don't dispute it). I'm not a APMA member and can assure you that I make much less than the average APMA member; moreover, I've been in the profession for 15+ years and business is getting worse for me with about a 5% decrease year to year trend for the past 4 years. I sure hope Stu Pod or one of his classmates doesn't open up in my neighborhood!

Posted on May 5, 2003, 4:25 PM
from IP address 209.250.153.19

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fishy

by Anonymous (no login)

Maybe instead of posting on a website you should be tending to your practice, if you have one.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 7:47 PM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Re: fishy

by Anonymous (no login)

In a few years you will be posting similar messages

Posted on May 21, 2003, 9:10 PM
from IP address 24.187.199.162

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reply

by Stu Pod (no login)

If you 've been losing 5% per yr. for the last 4 yrs, you need some serious practice management help. I don't doubt what you are saying about your personal situation, but if you've been in practice that long and are only grossing in the mid-$50's, you need help.

Posted on May 5, 2003, 8:43 PM
from IP address 12.83.151.157

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Poor Income is the truth.

by Anonymous (no login)

Sorry, Stu Pod.

It is the truth of some of the young podiatrists that they do not make it. Does this matter to an outstanding 4th year student like you?

No. Because you care only about yourself.

A typical egocentric podiatrist, and typical of the beast.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 9:00 PM
from IP address 67.249.44.248

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hey don't criticize Stu Pod

by Anonymous (no login)

My mentality was the same as Stu Pod's is. Then I went out into solo practice and learnt the truth about podiatry. BTW many practice management firms don't offer their services when your gross income is below $100K/year. Also their fees are quite high and when asked about guaranteeing results, the consultants over the phone sounded nervous. So with no return on investment, I don't use any practice management consultants.

Posted on May 7, 2003, 10:37 AM
from IP address 199.212.26.244

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The new Pods will learn pain.

by Anonymous (no login)

Well, I just wait for the new Pods to learn the painful truth about converting the knowledge and license into bread.

They think they are such hot shots.

Posted on May 7, 2003, 11:16 PM
from IP address 67.249.55.135

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realist

by A.A.D. (no login)

If you look up at one of my other posts titled "anybody?" you will see that I do not feel that I am a hotshot. I base my optimistic views about podiatry on what I know to be true from first hand experience. You can try to come back and say its limited but it still should be representative of the opportunities I will get. Just tell me how it is possible for me to visit multiple surgical residencies and see the residents being offered jobs with podiatry groups and ortho groups for $75,000 plus starting out. And you guys say we are naive will see what the real world is like after graduation. I have seen the "real world" and look forward to it. You guys are the ones with blinders on and are missing all the opportunities that are out there.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 7:31 AM
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75K Before Taxes is NOT That Much

by J. Anderson (no login)

75K is not alot of money if that figure is before taxes. Podiatry is not a 5 day a week, 40 hours/week job (unlike the podiatric propaganda used to entice students to sign up for the schools). After food, taxes, apartmentt phone, electricity, car, insurance, student loans, 75K will be rather puny compared to the career offers to MDs/DOs/DDSs.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 8:56 AM
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but its better than 25k

by A.A.D. (no login)

MDs, DOs, etc. might make more than us, but to be honest I do not know or care. If you want a career that makes the most money, dont go into medicine at all. Its probably not worth the hassle. Neurosurgeons and other high paying doctors will make more than us but you have to take into account that they do longer residencies, have higher demands, more "on call", and other factors. I dont believe that a family practice doc will make more than us starting out or any other time in our careers.

Its funny, people on this board complain that they only make 25k or so and cant pay back loans. Now I come back with salaries starting at 75k and you say that isnt enough to pay back loans. 75k is more than enough to live off of with a house, car, family, and loans. If its not then you are living above your means. Im sure if I had said starting salaries were 125k then you would have come back with that isnt enough either. Lets do the math: house payment is around $1000 - $1200/month if you go for a high price house. Loans if you consolidate are about $500-$750/mo. Car payment is about $500/mo. Food is about $500/mo for 2-3 people. Car insurace about $100/mo. have I hit the big bills? that adds up to $45000. Taxes take away a third of your salary so you bring home $50000. Still leaves you 5000. I estimated high on lots of these bills because I know what my loans will be during residency and the options available after that make it as low as $300/mo. I know people will come back and say Im leaving out all sorts of stuff, but the real point is that it doesnt matter what I add in or at what cost someone will disagree with me and say it isnt enough.

Oh well, what can you do? My wife and I have a budget already made out for us this year when I start residency. We bought a new house, will buy a car, will start paying on my loans and have no problem making ends meet. My wife works plus I get a small salary for residency. We will be fine and thats really all that concerns me. Especially since no one out there complaing really wants to do anything about their problems other than whine about them and blame everyone else.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 1:20 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Agree, $75000 Before Taxes is Low

by Erin Girard (no login)

Housing in the Northeast for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1200-1900. Housing is also ridicously expensive for fixer uppers of 350-450K for a "junky" house. The 75,000 figure can go very quickly, perhaps if you are in another state (the South or Midwest) the 75000 can be better. A starting offer of about 100-120K is more reasonable for a podiatric surgeon.

Posted on May 8, 2003, 7:15 PM
from IP address 206.243.39.17

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MDs make more than DPMs.

by Anonymous (no login)

There is absolutely no question that beginning Family Practice MDs make more than new DPMs.

Family doctors are in DEMAND. Podiatrists are not.

Check your Sunday newspaper. Any Sunday. Any city.

Live in the Reality or get some help.

Posted on May 9, 2003, 2:23 AM
from IP address 67.249.81.107

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I wish I made $25,000 net!

by Anonymous (no login)

But I don't I'm below $20,000, but I write off lots of things that are business related. My gross is just over $50,000 I can't afford a holiday but I do go to a conference once a year and get to write most of it off. The sad reality is that there is much, much more competition today than there was 20 years ago when I was eager to get out and practice. It seems that with trying to educate the public about what podiatrists do, the pedicurists jumped on the foot care specialist bandwagon and where I practice, do use sterile scalpels for callus reduction &/ corn enucleation; and supposedly use sterile nippers for ingrown toenails. The chiropractors/physios/pedorthotists produced various public education campaigns that they can provide custom made orthotics for <$300 (covered by insurance bec they're made under a pod's direction/supervision and dispensed from the lab by the pod and they are just as good as those dispensed by pods for $500 and they come with a 2 month no questions asked 100% money back satisfaction guarantee. So the competition from intra-profession and inter-professions has caused my annual gross to spiral downward. As for some of the new grads who are calling themselves Podiatric Surgeons some opened up and then shut down a year or two later. I can only speculate that their sign implied that all they did was podiatric surgery and so they were shunned by the public in my neighborhood.

So APMA please include my $18,700 net income in your survey! I am a solo practioner barely surviving week to week. And if Stu Pod or one of your classmates sets up in my area, I'll be there to inform you within a month, "that the area ain't doin' so well doc and I don' need the comp' man!"

Posted on May 9, 2003, 8:58 PM
from IP address 65.95.151.248

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Feel bad

by A.A.D. (no login)

My point on this board has never been to imply that I believe anyone with half a brain will make lots of money in podiatry. I know not everyone can make it. There are many factors that will decide how successful you are. Im sorry you are not doing well. But I will not rely on a handful of struggling podiatrists to change my view about podiatry. I still believe it is a good profession to go into. I base my opinions on overall trends as reported in surveys such as the APMA survey and on how well new podiatrists were doing around the country as I went on 4th year externships. I believe that the negative posters on this forum are in the minority and many of them failed because of their shortcomings. But even the best and brightest can be unsuccessful and I fully realize that. I cannot guarantee my own success, but I do know that the opportunites are out there and I have no one to blame but myself if I dont take advantage of them.

A.A.D.

Posted on May 9, 2003, 11:39 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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If you net that much then....

by Anonymous (no login)

You either didn't get the training or chose an are saturated with the specialties you mentioned and DPMs. A suggestion move. If you have the training and are malleable then you should be able to make 6 figures net within 3 years. If you like, I would be willing to help you. Post a contact number and I will. Last time I made this offer the individual basically told me he rather just quit.So there is another option. If you truly want to make it, let me help.

Posted on May 10, 2003, 8:21 AM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Poor guy

by CG (no login)

If this post is true which I am just about 99.9% sure its not, You need to move man!

Posted on May 10, 2003, 7:53 PM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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Sorry it is the truth too bad APMA won't include it in their survey/

by Anonymous (no login)

I will be moving in a month or two. The only problem is that when I moved to my current location, it was fine and it became saturated within a decade. So I'm worried that this will happen again but will try re-locating. It certainly feels like the best option is to quit. I hardly ever do any soft tissue surgery bec when I quote my competitive fees people prefer to visit the local orthopod who must be undercutting my fees and the other local orthotic "experts" are constantly indercuttig my fee for orthotics.


Posted on May 12, 2003, 7:06 PM
from IP address 65.95.149.34

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But you were there first

by Anonymous (no login)

If others moved in there must have been a reason or there are several of you not doing the homework in selecting a practice location. You were first so you may need to assess your networking skills. Before you move, make sure you do research. To net 25,000 it has to be the area, your limited scope by training or problems with your business approach.

Posted on May 12, 2003, 11:36 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Re: Sorry it is the truth too bad APMA won't include it in their survey/

by cg (no login)

Now I know you are full of it, a orthopod undercutting your fees. YEA RIGHT!!! I smell a troll.

Posted on May 13, 2003, 9:56 AM
from IP address 141.150.121.13

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RE: 75K not enough

by Anonymous (no login)

I am a young podiatrist working less than 20 hours a week. I dont work weekends and I gross over 100K. Stop wienning. It true about this forum being filled with a lot of losers. This is my second time loging in and my last. A successful person will be successful at what ever he persues. A negative attitude only fuels negativeity which ultimately leads to failure. Even a succesful person sometimes fails, however, he has the ability to achieve success again. A loser dones not have the ability to be successful.

Posted on May 18, 2003, 8:15 PM
from IP address 152.163.253.1

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Re: My advice

by Anonymous (no login)

"the majority of them are struggling"

This statement is blatant misinformation. LOL

Posted on May 2, 2003, 8:39 AM
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Re: Re: My advice

by Anonymous (no login)

If you are happy making 40-50k a year if you are lucky then pardon me I suppose I am misinformed.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 10:32 AM
from IP address 192.189.247.79

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Go away

by A.A.D. (no login)

You are making blatently false statements because you resent your failure at this career. Not everyone will be a success but just because you failed does not mean that everyone will. When you say "majority" are struggling then you are flat out lying. First, you have no statistics to back it up. Second, I doubt if you know the majority of podiatrists. My experiences may be limited but I know that the majority of recent graduates are not struggling. I know the offers being received by people graduating from their residencies this year and last year. No, they arent all > $100,000 but they arent $40k either. If you are so bitter about your career choice, then quit wasting your time spouting lies and use that time to do something positive with your life.

A.A.D.

Its so frustrating listening to all this whining about how bad podiatry is. I dont have rose tinted glasses - I know not everyone will be a success and make hundreds of thousands of dollars. But I also know that not everyone will make under 25k. I look at the averages and will work hard to make something positive happen for me. Im willing to do what it takes because I love what Im doing. Regardless of what happens to me in the future, you will not see me on this site whining about how I was tricked or everyone is against me succeeding. I will make my own future and I will take the credit or the blame for how it turns out.

Just my own comments regarding people making <25,000 dollars a year that have time to complain every day on this site about why they arent making money.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 4:37 PM
from IP address 12.214.216.126

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Good Advice

by Anonymous (no login)

The days of selling a practice based on prior earnings are long gone. Also gone are “good will” and “patient retention.” The main reasons for the change are do to HMOs and banks. HMO membership is generally non-transferable to the potential buyer. Large segments of the practice could disappear immediately as a result. Generally, banks are very dubious about loans of this nature. Loans available to the buyer are largely based on tangible assets, such as real-estate and equipment. The seller also has to remember that used equipment has only limited value. Banks may also require first time buyers have a co-signer on the loan. I am also very leery about any buyer-seller agreements or leases.

Posted on May 3, 2003, 4:36 PM
from IP address 64.157.54.142

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Young Podiatrists getting screwed?

by Anonymous (no login)

How can this ever occur?

Posted on May 3, 2003, 11:56 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Young Podiatrists get USED UP.

by Anonymous (no login)

It is more like the established DPMs use up the younger better trained ones, and then get a new fresh one.

25 Percent of production will be a new benchmark of payment.

Posted on May 6, 2003, 9:05 PM
from IP address 67.249.44.248

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John Anderson??

by Matt (no login)

just a hunch are you class of 1999?

If you are who I think you are, then You know who I am.

Matt H

Posted on Apr 29, 2003, 6:28 PM
from IP address 66.243.101.120

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Now I've had enough

by (no login)

Most people who regularly visit here know that I've been around for many years. My views are pretty well known, and I have always signed my name to every post I've typed.

I don't like the ugly turn this forum has taken. Stu Pod, while still a student, has some good, thoughtful posts, and makes things much more interesting. While I disagree with many of his views regarding the profession, I'm not so old that I don't remember being a student. The fact is that he has a much better chance of "making it" than many of us did when we graduated in the 90's.

Does that mean that I'm not bitter? No. I am. I freely admit that. I graduated number 9 in my class of 84, and worked my ass off to do so. I also know, however, that I did some things wrong here and there, and they hurt my chances at surgical training. In the end, I still consider myself a doctor, whether I practice medicine or not. When my daughter's hand got infected from a wound, I numbed it up and opened the wound to drain the pus, then cleaned and dressed it. No need to spend hours in the Emergency Room (and it looked much better by evening).

After 6 months of searching for a job in podiatry (and declining the <$30k/year offers), I made a decision to move on with my life. Now I have a job that I really enjoy and am moving up the company ladder at a stellar pace. I hate paying the loans, but I accept responsibility for them, and I live meagerly because of it.

I, truely, know that "failure" in podiatry can damage lives. I am lucky that I make a good living at what I do, and that I can afford to pay back my loans. Not many people who don't practice, and some who do, can say that.

I'm done trying to "convince" people not to go into Podiatry. This forum is here, and people can read it. My fight now is against the high loans. At least they changed the tax rules so I could deduct my $2500 off taxes this year. Of course, I paid over $10k in interest...but that's another story.

My point is that we should all try to respect each other. I know that many DPM's have trouble respecting a student's point of view, myself included, but I do wish the students all the best of luck in their professional futures. There's no point in telling people that they are going to fail, or hoping that they do, just to prove a point. These future DPM's will still have huge student loan debts (except maybe that guy who's father is a DPM - I do think his views are very much non-reality for most grads), and we shouldn't wish them a lifetime of ruin just because of mistakes we have made.

First and foremost, remember that you ARE a professional. Regardless of how you feel about the degree, it is a recognized doctoral degree, so take pride in that. I do. Let's all start acting like we are educated professionals.

Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM

Posted on Apr 28, 2003, 7:13 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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4th Annual World's Most Beautiful Feet Contest

by (no login)

4TH ANNUAL“WORLD’S MOST BEAUTIFUL FEET CONTEST” KICKS OFF ON MAY 23

Teaneck, NJ (April 21, 2003) – Calling all feet: big, small, narrow or wide, as long as they’re beautiful. Foot.com, the most comprehensive foot health information on the Web since 1999, will kick-off its 4th Annual “World’s Most Beautiful Feet” contest, co-sponsored by Shoes.com, on May 23. Entrants can send photos of their feet to Foot.com or Shoes.com, to be judged by a panel of podiatrists, pedorthists and a modeling professional.

The Grand Prize winner will spend seven nights at a SuperClubs all-inclusive Caribbean resort of their choice, including airfare, round trip airport transfers, all meals, all resort entertainment and activities, unlimited premium brand liquor, and all taxes and tips. Some restrictions apply. A professional photographer will also create a portfolio of the winner’s feet, to start them on a foot-modeling career.

Entries will be accepted through August 1, 2003, when 10 finalist photos will be posted on Foot.com and Shoes.com. The public can vote for the winner online. The winner will be announced on September 22. Only adults 18 and over may enter.

"Every year Foot.com hosts the popular ‘World’s Most Beautiful Feet Contest’ for fun and to draw attention to the serious issue of proper foot health and care,” says Donille Perrone, Foot.com spokesperson. “This year we're spicing up the contest with our new co-sponsor, Shoes.com, and an expanded Grand Prize trip. We want everyone to join the fun."

"Shoes.com is thrilled to co-sponsor this year’s ‘World's Most Beautiful Feet contest’,“ says Mondy Beller, Shoes.com spokesperson. “We are looking forward to uncovering the World's Most Beautiful Feet, and then outfitting them with the best and most comfortable shoes."

The judges seek feet with a nice arch, no corns, bunions or defects and that extra “something” that makes them the “World’s Most Beautiful Feet.” And it’s not all about beauty -- a consolation prize will be awarded to the “feet most in need of a pedicure.”

All 10 finalists will receive a $100.00 gift certificate to purchase shoes on the Shoes.com Web site.

Contest regulations will be posted online on May 16. For more information, visit Foot.com, or call Donille Perrone, at 800-526-2739. For media requests, contact Evelyn Leong at 845/358-3920, or eleong@ciicnews.com.

# # #

Posted on Apr 28, 2003, 12:42 PM
from IP address 65.220.107.62

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FREE STUDENT MEMBERSHIP -AAPS

by (no login)

FREE PODIATRY STUDENT MEMBERSHIP WITH THE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICAN PHYSICIANS AND SURGEONS...

www.aapsonline.org

Check it out and Join today. Send no money.

This MD group WELCOMES Podiatrists and Podiatry Students and even "Stu Pod"!!

Please tell your friends.
We would like for EVERY Podiatry Student to join and learn from them.

Posted on Apr 27, 2003, 12:36 PM
from IP address 67.249.44.194

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Re: FREE STUDENT MEMBERSHIP -AAPS

by R Willner (no login)

Right you are. Are you a member of AAPS?

This Physician group has invited Podiatry students to join for nothing. And, i bet that very few have taken then up on their kind offer.

And we Podiatrists are bent out shape when Physicians on Line does not accept podiatrists. AAPS welcomes us, so, lets get involved.

Can we have a few students from each school contact AAPS? www.aapsonline.org .

Thanks

Rich Willner

Posted on Apr 30, 2003, 6:49 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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