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Created in 1999 to facilitate intelligent & constructive communication between prospective students , podiatric medical students & doctors.  Thank you for making the PF the busiest podiatry forum on the internet. Comments expressed are NOT those of the webmaster, moderators nor advertisers/sponsors but rather reflect the opinions of that individual poster.  

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Can this be true?

by (no login)

I was at a SNF the other day, doing my notes at the nursing station and I started a conversation with a guy typing notes into a laptop. Turns out he is a pharmacist and to make a long story short, I finally asked him what the job opportunities are like in his profession these days. Now this is where I had a hard time believing this guy, because he said there are an exceptional number of jobs waiting for every graduate. Apparently, pharmacy school is three years and he said most starting salaries are $100,000 with benefits. Then he said if you don't mind going to the less desirable cities, the pay and benefits will be even more.
How could salaries for pharmacists be so high?

Posted on Oct 31, 2002, 9:26 PM
from IP address 216.119.9.219

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It Is True

by Anonymous (no login)

Check any job search engine. There is an increasing shortage of both pharmacists and registered nurses. Following the laws of supply and demand, the salaries and benefits are excellent.

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 11:21 AM
from IP address 158.252.242.74

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pharmacy

by cma (no login)

Pharmacy is generally a five year Bachelor degree.
Another year and they can receive a PharmD.
After that they can do fellowships in e.g., oncology.
That is in the administration of chemotherapy, and they are trained to evaluate the patient medically.
They will look for electrolyte abnormalities that may accompany cisplatin therapy. And check Hb levels,etc.
But, with just the basic degree they can get a job starting around $80,000 plus benefits with a large pharmacy corporation. (2001 salary) may be higher now.
Dentists were also starting at $80,000 in 2001.

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 12:58 PM
from IP address 63.185.9.248

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Pharmacists make bank

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

How could it be that starting salaries are so high? Have you looked around the corner from your home? Bet there's a Walgreens or CVS. They are everywhere...and are buying up every street corner. Hell, sometimes they are right across the street from one another.

The demand for pharmacies has never been higher - and with that, pharmacists are needed.

While it's true that you only need a 3 year bachelor degree to practice retail pharmacy, most schools are moving towards the 4 year PharmD degree (Doctor of Pharmacy).

I don't know about $100k to start, but I know the salaries are in the mid $80's. Of course, you count pills all day and argue with insurance companies on the phone...but the pay is incredible.

If I had any desire to go through chemistry hell again (ie: study for the PCAT), I'd consider applying.

Jeff

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 6:43 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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pharmacy not incredible

by cma (no login)

100k is not incredible.
my brother-in-law makes 100k as an electrician at Daimler-Chrysler.
The truth about pharmacy is you will never make over 100k.

Posted on Nov 4, 2002, 7:29 AM
from IP address 209.183.88.79

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cma, ups and downs

by Anonymous (no login)

cma makes 225 k as a MDA, drives a volkswagen, and has a handicap of about 35. 100 k is great if that is what you love to do. It has its ups and downs. Pharmacists who may open a chain of local pharmacies have the potential to be extremely wealthy. MOST MD/DO/DDS/NP/ECT will tell you that pharmacists know more about medicines than they do. They are very well trained (cant wait to hear from all the pissed off docs about how wrong I am)

Posted on Nov 4, 2002, 8:33 PM
from IP address 63.225.57.209

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225?

by cma (no login)

I wouldn't interview at an anes job that pays 225

Posted on Nov 5, 2002, 11:37 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.60

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Sorry cma

by Anonymous (no login)

Posted on Nov 6, 2002, 6:42 PM
from IP address 216.160.236.11

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RPh supports adult DPM son

by Anonymous (no login)

Wrong.

I am a Pharmacist in private practice in my own store. I made $537,000 last year and I am supporting my 42 year old son who is a Podiatrist.

He is surgical trained and he can not make sufficient money for his family. Some problem with the PPO's not including him.

Someone said that Podiatry is becoming a footnote in history. I agree.

Posted on Nov 7, 2002, 12:22 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.179

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Prospective Students Get Bombarded with Podiatry Misinformation

by Mark Boyer (no login)

A prospective student called me inquiring about podiatry. Since she was interested in athletics, the aged, pediatrics, derm, etc... that the podiatry CD-ROMs, brochures so actively state. She received massive amts. of glossy materials for the podiatry "schools" and wondered why there are so few applicants/students. She thought it was b/c of there are only 7 schools.. She was deciding b/w podiatry and med school. Given the extremely limiting factors and trends in podiatry that do not appear to be getting better any time soon. The choice was abundantly clear. She then told of the 40 work week, family time, no beeper, great pay etc..that the glossy PR brochures actively purported. I told her to look into the real podiatry. 6 days later after her own independent inquiry she got back to me. MD/DO all the way. She thanked me profously for saving her 150K in debt and time.

Posted on Nov 7, 2002, 10:44 PM
from IP address 134.174.110.5

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Balance

by Anonymous (no login)

You gave her your side. Do you still practice? Anyway when dealing with someone who is making a life decision, wouldn't it be the prudent and ethical to refer her to a DPM who may see things differently than you? If you do not know one you could refer to an organization that does. Then after hearing more than one opinion she could make a balanced decision.
How sad if she truly wanted to be a DPM and really became an MD/DO based upon the preception of those 2 fields by a non MD/DO.
Maybe the MD would tell her to be a DPM (which does happen) then what?

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 9:06 AM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Talking down Podiatry.

by Anonymous (no login)

It is reality, my friend. Podiatrists across the USA are talking down podiatry. In private and in public.
And the numbers are growing. Swelling. And expanding.

Try to intimidate and it gets worse. More vocal.
Its a fire and you dont put it out by pouring gas on it.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 7:41 PM
from IP address 67.26.43.233

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Not just podiatry

by anonymous (no login)

Doctors in general are down. 3 MDs in my building (all under 50) have quit medicine in the last 2 years. Things are tough all around. That said it is only fair to let the prospective student talk to people on both sides.
I always find it amusing when DPMs seem to know all about every other profession. They talk all about how great the MDs, DOs, PTs, RTs, RPhs, RNs, etc. have it but none of them have spent one day as any of those professions.
Unlike many who make these comments I work in a group that hires all of those professions. They all have their problems and many have recommended that students check into all professions both medical and nonmedical. Some have recommended podiatry.
When you say that atleast they can make all of this money we all know that is not the only issue. Nursing salaries are at an all time high yet they can not fill their schools Why? Yet DVMs (vets) pays are low and they have waiting lists. Why?
Gas on a fire I think not. I think it's people who are not in mainstream medicine (they admit it in their posts) who admit they had minimal training in a hospital telling everyoneall about those mainstream professions. Yeah right. I have made it in the profession after much work and our resident grads salaries go up eachyear. They join ortho groups and DPMs last year's grads salaries ranged from 70-130,000. before bonuses and benefits. They have full hospital privileges and grads in prior years 2-4 years are all between 125-300,000.
So not all new grads are failing and wow some are even happy. So before you steer some student to MD school please let them talk to someone who is young and made it. Or maybe they will one of the MDs that quits when they could have been a happy DPM.
Just be fair and quit ruining others chances. If it is so bad, quit and spend time having a shotat a happier life and spend more time on other web sites

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 3:48 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Gave Student other DPMs, Still Fled From Podiatry

by Mark Boyer (no login)

I in fact gave her the APMA number, the names of 3 other DPMs ,and some of my MD colleagues for a 'balanced' discussion and told her to look at other practices and follow a DPM around other than me because I am not keen on this "profession". She after 6days made up her OWN mind and stated without any provocation that she "didn't like the fact that the practices involved nail clipping and bunions, medicine was absent." Not my statements --hers.

Yes, I still practice podiatric medicine on a PT basis. Since I can make much more in computers.

Posted on Nov 12, 2002, 11:53 AM
from IP address 134.174.157.114

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That's better

by Anonymous (no login)

If you did that then I have no arguement. Sounds as though she was undecided and your input and the other information she received swayed her towards medicine.

I will admit that if someone enters podiatry purely as a second choice after rejection from another career they will have a harder time being happy. Doesn't mean that can't be happy but will have a harder time.

Our residents do well upon graduation but I will also admit not all the profession's graduates do well. Sometimes it is their training and sometimes it is their unrealistic expectations (they set up or take a job in an area flooded with DPMs and foot orthopods). If the panels are closed regardless of your degree or training they will take time to get on.

All of our grads(Approximately 30) for the last 5 years are doing well. The highest paid is making take home before taxes $250,000. The lowest (out since 7/2002)is making a base of $70,000 with a bonus and benefits. So it is possible to make it. It isn't the entire profession that's amess but only certain parts. You can not compare medicine with podiatry since it was never meant to be compared. I will argue, that when trained no one can hold water to our professions residents. I see the logs of 2 nationally known ortho residencies and their foot ,back, hand, and sometimes even shoulder experience is minimal. One ortho grad whose chief is also a foot orthopod only did 5 foot cases in 5 years. They still come out and do backs, feet etc. One I know routinely sends the staff to his office to get the textbooks. Imagine if we did that. :)

Posted on Nov 12, 2002, 1:23 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Re: RPh supports adult DPM son

by Anonymous (no login)

If he were my son, I would remodel my store somewhat so that he could have a small private podiatry suite. The increased revenue he could bring your business in terms of OTCs alone should be substantial. He does not have to have surgical privileges or be on the staff of a local hospital in order to make an excellent income. Assuming there are no dysfunctional family dynamics, this could be a very satisfying and positive experience for all concerned. Best of luck and please let us know what happens.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 7:47 AM
from IP address 158.252.215.34

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Podiatry Only Office

by Mark Boyer (no login)

In Mass this is against the board of podiatry laws, stating that the podiatry office must be soley used for the purposes of podiatry and no other proprietary service/s can be rendered in that office dwelling. One office only podiatry.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 12:57 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.114

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the real truth about pharmacy

by pharmacist/dpm (no login)

pharmacy is now a 6 year degree in which you will earn a doctorate of pharmacy. The average pay is based on hourly wages, somewhere around the 40-45 dollars on hour. There is a pharmacise shortage now, with the average salary being from mid 80's up to 100,000 based on hours worked. Obviously no one on this site would know more about this than myself, considering i am still practicing pharmacy at a retail store.

Posted on Nov 4, 2002, 10:20 AM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Re: the real truth about pharmacy

by Anonymous (no login)

Obviously, you are the acknowledged authority on this subject. Are you happy with your job? Or, as with most of us, are there some little things that really drive you up the wall?

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 8:17 AM
from IP address 158.252.215.34

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Pharmacists are part of the system

by Anonymous (no login)

This is true. RPh's DO start at more than $75K plus benefits. And, they don't have to worry about suits.

How many times does one have to say that Podiatrists THINK that they are part of the Healthcare system. They are not. They are only invited guests.

Pharmacists ARE part of the system.

Posted on Nov 2, 2002, 12:13 AM
from IP address 63.215.172.2

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You are sadly mistaken!

by Anonymous (no login)

Let's see. I take a detailed history and physical examination for a new patient with a foot complaint. I order radiographs and appropriate laboratory tests, render a diagnosis, and write a prescription for possibly an antibiotic or an analgesic. What should I call myself? I am a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine. What are you?

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 8:25 AM
from IP address 158.252.215.34

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a pharmacist!!!

by ms3 (no login)

He is a PHARMACIST! Someone that I deal with everyday! They are the best at knowing drugs, and my collegues and I interact with them everyday. I don't even remember the last time our hospital even delt with a DPM...not that you are not needed, of course. The family docs and PA, NPs debride nails (YES, you don't need 4 yrs of podiatry school to learn how to do it right!), debride ulcers, PNAs (yes...they have the right, the knowledge, and are GREAT at it), our PTs do all the orthosis AND FFOs, and the orthopedic surgeons do all the surgeries...including bunions and hammertoes. I'm not saying that you are not needed...I'm just saying that you do not own your science...a lot of people out there know and practice "podiatry"! ms3

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 12:24 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.154

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Only the truth

by Anonymous (no login)

PharmDs are in very high demand. Not only in a retail setting but in a research and clinical setting. For lack of specific knowledge, about a year ago a large drug company employed an entire graduation class at a salary of somewhere near 70k per PharmD with benefits. Look in your local paper, as I did after reading your response, I found several jobs in a retail setting at Albertsons. No specifics were listed regarding salary but it did say "competitive salary and great benefits". According to the BLS, pharmacists make somewhere in the realms of 50-70k on average. They are very skilled in the chemicals we call medicines which in todays society is very needed. Help? Hope so.

Posted on Nov 2, 2002, 1:02 AM
from IP address 216.160.238.167

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Not all paid that much

by Anonymous (no login)

There are shortages in certain areas for pharmacists that are driving up salaries. The ones I know are more mid 5 figure ranges unless they work in a scary area or work holidays, evenings, weekends etc.
My suggestion is if you want that guarantee go be a pharmacist. Also for those who quote how this MD got this or that, I think we all knew/know that an MD has many more options than many professions. That is why it has always been the most sought after human professional schools. I do not think that when we go to DPM school we think we are going to be competitive with MDs when it comes to $$$.
However, think about this one: The most sought after medical field is being a Vet. Very competitive yet the average grad makes very little. Yes there are vets making a killing but go to any vet site and you will se many make less than 50,000/annum. They have competition for residencies that make a PSR-24 quest seem easy and the big money follows those who do these residencies. So why is competition still there for a competitive, high cost, low return profession ( which I do not believe podiatry is BTW) simple these people love this career and will not settle for a second career even an MD in some cases.
Podiatry has a problem when people who neverintended to be one or even research what they do become one after rejection from MD school. This is an inherent cancer and I believe explains the let down for many especially those who are having a tough time economically. Since a second choice with $$$ may be acceptable.
If you want MD, DO, pharmacy, RN,PT oportunities then you have to go to school work and be one of those. Don't compare apples to oranges. I like being a DPM knew what to expect had patience and now Iam doing well
My opinions

Posted on Nov 2, 2002, 9:11 AM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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It must be true -it's happening in Canada too.

by Anon (no login)

Instead of summarising a post from the Canadian Podiatry Forum I copied and pasted the following post. It was posted on March 7, 2002.

On March 2, 2002, "The Toronto Star" reported a story on p. A14, that aging Canadians are fuelling a large increase in demand for pharmacists. Canada needs at least 2,000 more and in Ontario more than 400 new pharmacists were registered last year. Also it was reported, that a call was placed to a Shopper's Drug Mart in North Bay for an interview, but the pharmacist could not speak with the reporter because he had 80 customers waiting to have their prescriptions filled. Is this the only pharmacy in North Bay?

Out of curiosity, I phoned the Ontario College of Pharmacists and found out that there are approximately 9,600 pharmacists registered to practise in Ontario. That means there are more than 21 times as many pharmacists as podiatrists & chiropodists in Ontario and there's actually a shortage of pharmacists in Ontario. Further phone calls were made, I found out that there are 13 pharmacies in North Bay and they appear to be extremely busy; however, when I called the only podiatrist in North Bay he was there only on Friday and Saturday and the only chiropodist was working Monday-Friday part-time hours 9 a.m.-12:30 p.m. and 1 p.m.-2 p.m. Both had voicemail pick-up the calls I made.

The ratios in this analysis are disturbing:

.......................................Podiatrists &
..................Pharmacists....Chiropodists.........Ratios
Ontario............9,600............450..................21:1
North Bay............13 (min)......1 (approx)........13:1.

What is particularly interesting is the sheer number of pharmacists and the low number of chiropodists & podiatrists in Ontario. Ever year the University of Toronto will be graduating 240 pharmacists and the Michener will be graduating about 18, another ratio of approximately 13:1! I don't read the newspapers everday, so I might have missed a similar article about the severe and extreme shortage of chiropodists & podiatrists. On the other hand, my experience of private practise chiropody indicates that there is absolutely no shortage of chiropodists & podiatrists -it's just a perception problem on the part of the chiropody instructors. They should take sabbaticals for 5 years and see how well they will do in private practise, it will be an eye-opening experience for them. With already over 176,453 foot care professionals (other than chiropodists and podiatrists) in Ontario (see Chiropodial Comparative Analysis), I would bet $1,000,000 (if I had it) that none of the chiropody instructors, on sabbitical, would be making more than $25,000/year (after over-head expenses and pre-income tax) income after being in private practise chiropody for five years. Wanna bet?

Posted on Nov 2, 2002, 12:24 PM
from IP address 65.48.41.73

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Untitled

by Anonymous (no login)

I have a question with CRIPS coming up what are the stupidest interview questions or just interviews you have been to. How many interviews do you go into knowing that somebody else has the program.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 192.35.79.70 on Oct 31, 2002 10:05 AM

Posted on Oct 31, 2002, 8:21 AM
from IP address 216.151.105.8

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Theft of money

by We Lie Mucho, DPM (no login)

Right you are. So you travel to the residency and play the game. But, you have a hunch that it is only
an expensive game.

Well, welcome to the world of the screwed. The world of podiatry.

Good luck.

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 1:45 AM
from IP address 67.24.14.96

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please explain

by (no login)

Hello:

I have an interest in podiatry as a second career. From reading your statement it appears podiatry is not the field to enter. Please explain why.


Thank you

Stanford Stephens

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 1:57 AM
from IP address 198.81.26.235

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read and make your own choice.

by Anonymous (no login)

we will never tell you want to do. Maybe you like this mega hyped profession.

Maybe you want in a profession that can not fill its entering class.

Maybe you want in a profession that can not tolerate dissent within it.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 7:45 PM
from IP address 67.26.43.233

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2nd career

by (no login)

go into nursing and become a NP. thats what i did.

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 12:38 AM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Pop up hell

by Anomalous (no login)

This site, without a doubt, is the undisputed hub of internet pop-up hell. Not that I have ever perused any sort of adult-themed website, but those pale in comparison to the relentless, irritating, in-your-face ads that permeate the Podiatry Forum.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:46 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.221

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Ways around that

by Anonymous (no login)

You can download Mozilla to use as a browser. It allows you to control that. You can do the same with Netscape, which is based on Mozilla, but you will have to add some features. (This is a standard Browser for Linux systems by the way, but there are versions for your windows.)

Earthlink also has a nice little addition to IE, which will allow you to turn pop-ups off and on.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 7:40 PM
from IP address 63.186.17.97

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Another way

by PopBoy (no login)

If you're technically inclined, you can see where the pop up ads come from and then set that domain name to point to 0.0.0.0 in your windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts file (no extension).

open up your hosts file and add some lines like this:

0.0.0.0 ads.adroar.com
0.0.0.0 www.epitaph.com
0.0.0.0 www.grokster.com
0.0.0.0 www.mateseekers.com
0.0.0.0 ad.linksynergy.com
0.0.0.0 www.mucent.com
0.0.0.0 ads.valuead.com
0.0.0.0 p.searchmission.com
0.0.0.0 leader.linkexchange.com

basically what will happen is you're get a "page not found" for those places. often if the page isn't found then the javascript to pop up new pages will never load.

the best thing is you dont' have to load any buggy pop up beating sofware on your machine.

-r

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 5:02 PM
from IP address 24.160.106.107

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Surgery and plavix/pletal

by Anonymous (no login)

Does anyone d/c pletal or plavix preoperatively(for bunions and hammertoes?) If it doesn't affect PT/PTT and does not cause bleeding(according to drug reps) than why d/c it? I haven't been for simple procedures but I'm wondering if I should before doing osteotomies, ect.. Thanks

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 9:09 AM
from IP address 64.196.60.23

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TLC - part II

by Anonymous (no login)

The program followed the PNP around for some time not just for the foot problem. Would it be interesting to follow a pod around (if there was even one on staff) and watch him deal with feet or a NP deal with the entire body? What sells a foot show or a medical show? Comments welcome.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:28 AM
from IP address 63.225.56.223

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Re: TLC - part II

by C (no login)

There are only 15000 pods in the country and most of them are concentrated in about 7 states so their is hardly enough pod to cover every hospital in the country.
As for a NP in the ER, thats there job to practice whole body medicine its not ours. If you find a NPs job more interesting then great for you. Personally I would rather follow follow a pod around than a ER doc because I find LE medicine more interesting. Just my opinion

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 11:34 AM
from IP address 206.149.204.168

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Trauma - Life in the ER

by Anonymous (no login)

On a TLC program that follows docs and nurses through the ER in a 'live setting' It showed a 12 year old boy come in with forefoot trauma. He had no feeling in his toes and limited movement. He also had a severe laceration from the toes to the underfoot. I was very surprised when a PNP (Pediatric Nurse Practitioner) treated him IN FULL. She ordered the radiography and read it and then proceeded to treat him with sutures and a soft wrap of the ankle and foot along with Rx for antibiotics and pain. Where is the podiatrist? Is a NP trained to treat such an ailment and if so how well? Just wanted to hear some thoughts. Thanks

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 8:36 PM
from IP address 63.228.198.184

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The NP would treat a lot of problems

by Anonymous (no login)

The NP probably would have treated it whether it was the hand, face ,wrist or other anatomical part. In addition he/she would triage chest pain and other potentially serious conditions.
In some states they can even have a private practice and are listed by some insurance plans as primary care providers. So before you make this a podiatry specific problem, many FPs are taking a close look at NPs(as seen on 60 minutes).
Whether or not you would be triaged, treated by a NP vs a MD, DO, DPM is something you will have to decide.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 9:10 AM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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NPs win

by Anonymous (no login)

NPs vs. FPs = disaster. NPs can only bill 85% of what a physician can this means insurance companies (who rule the world of medicine) save millions by using them. Do you think that insurance co. really care if you are getting the best care available? No. They care about getting the problem somewhat fixed at the lowest rate. NPs (PA) are mid-level practitioners and are only trained to treat 'mid-level conditions' with total competance.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:21 AM
from IP address 63.225.56.223

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Re: NPs win

by Anonymous (no login)

Wait until the NP practitoner makes a serious mistake and ends up being grilled in a malpractice action. Perhaps he/she will have second thoughts about trying to usurp that which we have trained so hard and long for.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 7:50 AM
from IP address 158.252.215.34

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NPs usurping

by anonymous (no login)

NPs are not trying to usurp anything, just practicing competent, economical health care in their niche, and they market themselves aggressively. JAMA published a study last year showing that NPs provide exactly equivalent services to MDs for those services they perform. This is not to say they have the same knowledge base, but to say that they do not provide inferior care. PAs have also been shown to have similar competence. And yes, of course some NPs and PAs get sued, as do other health care professionals, but this is hardly an indictment of their respective professions.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 3:40 PM
from IP address 216.189.32.74

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Bravo!

by Anonymous (no login)

I applaud you for having the courage and open mind to admit a true fact that most podiatrists, medical doctors, DOs, ect, ect. are too afraid to admit because they feel so superior to every other health care professional taking some of their terriotry. NPs do provide excellent care. They are trained for nearly 7 years on ave. (re: American Assoc. of Nurse Pratitioners) and they are completely capable and competant of their training.

If only every 'big headed' dr. had your perspective medicine would focus on pt. care and not turf battles. Nurses would intergrate with doctors, PTs, DPMs, ect. and visa versa.

Bravo!!

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 1:37 AM
from IP address 63.226.69.211

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trained long and hard for???

by Anonymous (no login)

Take a look at the stats and averages for NP facts. NPs spend on average 7 years to train in didactic / class. That is a ton of training (sufficient training!) to perform mid-level procedures safely and effectively. Lose your ego.

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 1:40 AM
from IP address 63.226.69.211

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NPs

by MS3 (no login)

I have seen NPs that are way better clinicians than MDs. I know in the hospital that I am at now...if I have to be seen, I rather have an NP do it.
Medical Student 3

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 4:20 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.147

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Podiatrists have lost the foot

by Anonymous (no login)

Who is surprised? Read the podiatry forum and someone mentioned all of that. Pay attention.

You are in a little world only getting information from your podiatry teachers-- more little people in a little podiatry world.

There is a big world out there and podiatry is not included.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 10:00 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.138

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Ignorance Is Bliss

by Anonymous (no login)

Simply not true. I have been in private practice for almost 30 years and can do as much as I like. My income is far above the average American wage earner and I feel really good at the end of the day knowing that I have both alleviated pain and suffering and have some money in the bank.

Any young practitioner can do the same if they stop listening to the naysayers and develop a realistic plan of action.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 7:58 AM
from IP address 158.252.215.34

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dear Ignorance Is Bliss

by anon (no login)

call all the insurance providers by which you are paid
tell them you just finished residency (call twice, 1st time non-surgical, 2nd time psr24). Ask them how and when you can get on their provider list. Then inform the participants of this forum what you found. Your experience is totally foreign to the reality of grads in the last 10 years. Talk to a few of them. Tell us what you hear.

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 10:37 AM
from IP address 12.149.100.21

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Don't be surprised

by Anomalous (no login)

A pediatric nurse practitioner is part of mainstream medicine. Podiatrists sit somewhere out on the periphery. There is a very limited handful of podiatrists around the country who would get the call for such a case.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 10:12 AM
from IP address 64.172.196.181

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Ever See a Pod on TLC Performing Real Med-Bunions Not Allowed

by Mark Boyer (no login)

A NP is fully qualified legally to make independent full body health care decisions under the eye of an licensed MD/DO. There are very few podiatrists or podiatric foot surgeons who are ever called to the ER to eval. that is a fact. Perhaps for a wart or some dead skin to be scraped off so our taxes can foot the bill.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 12:39 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.106

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Mr. Boyer

by Anonymous (no login)

Actually I laughed when I read your heading because there is a program on TLC called "The Operation" and it is an hour long segment on a specific procedure. About a month ago there was a foot doc (a pod) doing a bunionectomy on a patient on the OR. The doc gave background on his training and his scope. It was a victory for podiatry woulnt ya say? You can probably order a copy at TLC.com. Comments?

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:16 AM
from IP address 63.225.56.223

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Bunions Do Not Shed Podiatry in Best Light

by M. Boyer (no login)

As I stated no bunions allowed. THey are elective and cosmetic similar to tummy tucks and nose jobs. WHy not follow a pod. surgeon with ankle trauma, heel fractures, leg lengthening etc...

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:37 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.124

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you have got to be kidding

by Anonymous (no login)

I haven't done one "cosmetic" bunion. How can you compare bunion surgery to tummy tucks, ect..?
What a statement coming form a guy who doesn't do surgery!LOL!

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 1:54 PM
from IP address 64.196.60.23

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Bunions, hammertoes are Mostly Elective Sx.

by Alan Blankenship (no login)

I think he means, that elective surgeries like hammertoes and bunions are not as trauma/er worthy than ankle fx, foot fx/lacs etc... When I was in practice some of my patients just didn't like the way there feet looked and since their health plan covered bunion/hammertoe surgery got the procedure done-however, many times I refused simply because of the threat of a lawsuit or elective nature.

Posted on Oct 31, 2002, 10:50 PM
from IP address 134.174.110.5

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Re: Ever See a Pod on TLC Performing Real Med-Bunions Not Allowed

by Anonymous (no login)

Funny that you think pods going to the ER are only there to eval some warts or scrape some dead skin.

The majority of the tiems I have been to the ER to see pts it has not been for such things. In fact I can't recall any times I have seen those in the ER.

The pt I saw yesterday is more typical. 20 yr hx of diabetes, decided to quit taking meds or seeing any docs about 3 years ago. Injury to the foot 3 weeks ago, with minimal (and inappropriate) self-treatment since then. Glucose >600, WBC >25, etc. Necrosis of the forefoot. X-rays reveal gas in the soft tissue extending up to the ankle. IM asked for a pod consult to the ER.

What would you do?

Posted on Nov 10, 2002, 11:07 PM
from IP address 63.186.33.101

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Oops

by Anonymous (no login)

Responded before I was though.

What would a PA do in this situation?
What would a NP do in this situation?
What could a PT possibley do?
So much for that whole body practice stuff. There are still some things that are way outside of those scopes.

What would an FP, OB/GYN, derm, path, psych, cardio, IM, etc. MD or DO do in this situation? They don't have the training needed to deal with this appropriately (in my humble opinion). It could be dealt with by Gen surg, ortho or PODIATRY. None of the others have the training to deal with this.

There really is a place for podiatry in the mainstream of medicine. Get over it.

Posted on Nov 10, 2002, 11:18 PM
from IP address 63.186.33.101

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i'm surprised too

by cma (no login)

If this child had possible injuries to nerves or tendons then he should have been evaluated by a surgeon who specializes in treating those injuries.

as an anesthesiologist I will sometimes see patients who have been treated superficially for a hand or arm wound, and after seeking help from a hand surgeon will undergo anatomic repair.

I suppose the NP felt the foot was intact, and the wound superficial. And felt a consultation was not needed.

Unfortunately for podiatry, any consult would have gone to an orthopod, or perhaps a general surgeon.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 3:29 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.96

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cma

by Anonymous (no login)

The patient complained of complete and total numbness in the forefoot. X-ray and palpation were the only diagnostic measures taken ... no consult ... just sew it up and shoe them out the door. The NP seemed to be very confident in her decisions and/or training to treat and release the pt.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:24 AM
from IP address 63.225.56.223

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Unfortunate

by Anonymous (no login)

It is a sad comment, but unfortunately podiatric injuries often go undiagnosed until too late.

Whether it is a NP, PA, FP, Radiolgoist, General Surgeon, Orthopod, whatever; it is not uncommon for for sublte injuries to be undiagnosed or mis-diagnosed.

We can only deal with the later sequlae.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:33 AM
from IP address 63.186.32.184

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malpractice

by DO MS IV (no login)

If true, this shows how much a little education, nursing at that, can make one feel overly confident in one's ability to diagnose and treat potentially serious medical problems. I worked with ER MDs, who while well trained and board certified, consulted with plastic surgeons to evaluate and treat lacerations suspicious for nerve or tendon transection. I'm surprise that this nurse sutured the foot and sent the patient on his merry way without being concerned about the complaint of sensory loss. What about intactness of motor functions? That, my friends, is malpractice and speaks very unequivocally that nurses have no business practicing medicine in the first place... or ever at all!

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 3:58 PM
from IP address 129.109.190.27

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DO MS IV

by Anonymous (no login)

In response to your one minded post, nurses deserve a ton of respect for the crap they put up with on a day to day basis. They are trained (APRN) in mid-level cases and very effectively. Nurses practicing medicine ... Nurses have been practicing medicine longer than any physician or medical specialist throughout history. They have contributed to pt. saftey and health on a very large scale. They dont deserve those kind of idiotic slaps. Government survey: CNN headlines read something to the extent of -Mortality rate much higher for areas of serious nursing shortage - What does that say? Stay open minded. Its better for all medical healthcare professionals and pts.

Posted on Nov 2, 2002, 11:16 PM
from IP address 63.225.57.209

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anonymous

by DO MS IV (no login)

I do agree with you that nurses should be respected for what they do - and that is nursing, not medicine. The comment about nurses practicing medicine is partially true. Nurses make the practice of medicine happen, which is following physicians' orders and that is how things should run. I have nothing but respect for nurses for doing things that most physicians will refrain from. However, the practice of nursing is for nurses and the practice of medicine should be left up to physicians. The next time anyone argues otherwise for the blurring of the professional line, ask yourself if you want your heart problems managed by a nurse or a cardiologist, your cancer resected by a nurse or a oncologic surgeon, or your antibiotic prescription from a nurse or an infectious disease specialist.

Posted on Nov 4, 2002, 12:42 PM
from IP address 129.109.24.203

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DO MS IV

by Anonymous (no login)

I agree, but only to a certain extent. I spent 12 months in a urgent care/family practice setting as an intern through my college and came to understand that most of the work done in that clinic (which are all over the state I am from) was done by RNs or NPs. The physicians kinda stood back and filled out paper work, ect. Not saying that physicians shouldnt be there but there are definately things of a mid-level nature that RNs (especially NPs) are very well capable of performing with out the supervision of a physician.

For example, I live in Salt Lake City, a city with well over a million people (including the small surrounding areas) and everytime my wife sees her OB it is a NP-OB. My children see a FNP. At one of the larger teaching hospitals in the state the head of infectious disease is APRN, MS. My pratitioner is a FNP as well and not to mention this event - I was in a car accident about a year ago (awful winters here)and when taked into the ER (I wasnt a very high priority patient) and treated and released by a ENP (Emergency Nurse Practitoner - so he called himself)

I would entrust several of my families, friends, and even my own medical problems to a NP - but to a limit, they have only proved themselves as knowledgeable, confident, and caring to me and my family. In the event of a more serious condition, I would definately differ to a higher level practitioner, a doc. No malice here, just my opinions. Thoughts...

Posted on Nov 5, 2002, 1:08 AM
from IP address 63.225.57.209

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another way of looking at it.

by me (no login)

We can also say this: If a heart patient were in a crisis, would you want a psychiatrist or an ER nurse to assist?

If a person were suffering from situational depression and very suicidal, would you rather a psychiatric master's level nurse or a family practioner doing counseling with this patient? The psychiatric nurse would have experience in doing psychotherapy and family therapy. By the way, I know a family practitioner that shares an office with a psych nurse. Each time a patient starts crying he runs to get the nurse.

Posted on Nov 6, 2002, 12:53 AM
from IP address 24.161.136.136

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be fair

by DO MS IV (no login)

Let's not compare apples and oranges. My point is that physicians provide the highest and most competent level of care. If you want to compare the level of care provided by an ER nurse, let's compare that type of care with the one rendered by a critical care MD or an ER MD. If you want to talk about psychiatry, then let's compare the care by a psychiatrist nurse to that of a MD psychiatrist. Let's remember that nurses are midlevel nonphysician clinicians.

Posted on Nov 6, 2002, 1:16 PM
from IP address 129.109.24.95

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Re: be fair

by me (no login)

Okay,

However, psychiatry is a little different. As far as psychotherapy, it is not one's degree that makes them a better therapist. There are psych rn's that make better therapists than psychiatrists.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 4:34 AM
from IP address 24.161.136.136

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and vice versa!

by ms3 (no login)

...And the other way around is true also! So what's the difference? If you have more weapons (ie...MDs and DOs can prescribe RX, do surgeries) your patients will have more options.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 12:27 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.154

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ms3... mistaken

by Anonymous (no login)

Directing this comment to NP-psychos and MD-psychos... Surgery is irrevelant, not used in the 'therapy' setting. NPs can Rx! They are trained in nursing and then specialize in the available specialities they dont need to know orthopedics, ect. to do psych work effectively. You seem to be a one minded student that needs help.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 4:06 PM
from IP address 63.226.69.211

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i defend anyone who is RIGHT

by ms3 (no login)

read my other posts and then tell me that i am close minded! ms3

Posted on Nov 14, 2002, 9:35 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.123

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be fair

by me (no login)

Are you sure that you are a med student or at least a third year? Even people not working in the medical field know that NURSES DO PX. Also, it is possible for a nurse to have many more years of training in psychotherapy than a psychiatrist. In some residency programs, psych rn's are training resident psychiatrists.

Posted on Nov 9, 2002, 2:38 AM
from IP address 24.161.136.136

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is this a good deal?

by student (no login)

Hello,
My friend will be done with his psr-24 in june. He got a job offer that is as follows:
Salary: 48K/yr
cell phone, retirement, health, malpractice, apma dues: 7K/yr
Total: 55K/yr + 40% of anything me makes over 180K for the practice. He will have a chance to be partner in a couple of yrs depending on how things work out. He only has to work 4 days/week...more if he likes. This is pretty much the standard for this area. Is this an okay deal or should he move to another state? Every dpms he talks to in the state pretty much give him similar packages (a lot of them are not even hiring). Thanks

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 11:42 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.209

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Great Job. Great Salary. Great Profession.

by Anonymous (no login)

Lets review the facts:

This surgeon has a 2 year Residency, longer than the Boss.

His salary is 55k.

"chance to be partner". EVERYBODY MAKES THESE PROMISES. Remind your friend that he also has a chance to be King of England.

He needs to pay 1500 a month on his Student Loans.

conclusion: for podiatry, this is excellent.
Mucho money for a podiatrist . Take the few dollars and run. laugh at all of the "LOSERS" who have less than 24 months of surgical training and will make less or not find work in podiatry at all.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 11:09 PM
from IP address 63.215.172.11

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70k student loan

by student (no login)

Actually, he only has 78K of loans ( is still in defer until he is done with his residency)...I think this job has great potential. Why is everyone so negative?

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 11:00 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.68

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The Truth about Podiatry jobs.

by Jim Truth, DPM, BSD (no login)

The truth is very simple. It is the truth. Not the crap that passes as the truth.

There ain't money in podiatry except for a select few.
DPMs don't go the ER, except when they are residents.

1 year surgical residents can be deleted from the OR if the 2 year residents strut their stuff. Listen up, Boys and Girls.

When the 2nd year Residents get popular, NO DPM with only a one year resident will be allowed in the OR.
There is no grandfathering.

Jim Truth, DPM, BSD

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:15 AM
from IP address 67.24.15.30

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48K=Horrible

by Alan Blankenship (no login)

48K that is horrible (before taxes) for a doctor, wow, I make approx. that as an asst. manager at Wendy's witha full benefits package. How will you pay your student loans? How will you survive, podiatry is not a 9-5 job, it stays and permeates you when you go home/

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 12:45 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.106

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$48,000 GREAT for Podiatry!!

by Anonymous (no login)

Hey, $ 48K and to be a target for Lawsuits everytime you touch a patient? Hey, that is great!

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 12:05 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.150

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Typical

by Anomalous (no login)

48k is a typical offer, but still must be seen as an embarassment. Cell phone? Malpractice? Health? APMA dues? These don't add up to much especially when you can guess the head cheese is going to find the cheapest package around (cell phone means squat, malpractice runs about $2k/year, health can be as little as $100-$150/month...it doesn't add up to much incentive if you ask me). What in the heck does "retirement" mean?? Is he offering matching contributions to a 401k? That would be generous.

Aside from all of that, is your friend going to be an employee for this doctor? This makes a gigantic difference. If he is legally employed then he won't be responsible for self-employment tax, which runs roughly an additional 7.5% of gross income. If he is employed, he will also likely be using a corporate provider number vs. his own provider number. This takes some of the liability off of him. If he's required to be an independent contractor then he'll pay more in taxes and have a higher liability if something goes wrong.

What do you mean by "anything he makes over 180k for the practice"? Is that gross or net? If it's net, it's a ridiculous offer. If it's gross, it still means that your friend is going to have to make at least 220k over the 180k to make decent money (that would be about 130k gross, which translates into about 75k net...less if he's going to be independent and not an employee). If he needs to bring in 220k above and beyond the 180k he brings in, that'll mean he'll need to bill about 18k MORE per month. At 4 days a week that computes to about $4200/week or about $1000 a day. When you put the two together, he'll have to bill AT LEAST 32-33k per month. That's a lot of money for any doctor. That's about 2k per day, every day, 4 days a week with no factoring for sick time, slow days, holidays or vacation. And even if he could bill this high number on average, he's still not making a whole lot of money. How is he going to bring in this much money? Is he going to have to do his own marketing? How is the current doc getting new patients? Recruiting new patients is the key to increasing your income.

What about vacation or sick leave? How about CME? How about potential for a raise??

The sad, bottom line is that this is probably as good as he'll ever get.

That's only one of 37 reasons that I'm getting out.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 3:17 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.178

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Podiatry "TRICKS"

by Anonymous (no login)

And, don't forget that there are "calander" years and fiscal years.

So, someone under this contract can bring in $400,000 in a year and NOT make a buck in bonus.

More Podiatry tricks. Learn them or be stung.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 10:03 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.138

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180k into the practice

by student (no login)

The 180K is how much he needs to bring into the practice (ie. the amount that the insurance companies pay the practice before taxes). Anything above 180K, he gets 40%. The closest offer to this one was 50K/yr and 35% of anything over 140K. It all works out about the same. As to sick days, he can pretty much take anytime off...the ownwer is pretty flexible about that. Basically, the more he makes for the practice, the more he will make for himself.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 11:23 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.68

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Bottom line

by Anomalous (no login)

This is probably the best offer he'll get. He might as well take it and live like a pauper for a while until he can save enough to invest in his own practice.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 5:42 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.221

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Anesthesiologist

by 3rd year out (no login)

Anesthesiologist new guy just out of residency was offered 225K at my hospital.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 4:12 PM
from IP address 209.26.21.10

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it's a pretty good deal

by cma (no login)

Actually this seems to be a pretty good deal.

$48,000 per annum with benefits that I would estimate at 15 to 20 thou depending upon malpractice costs. Incidentally, your friend needs to insist on occurence based insurance otherwise he or she might get stuck with a tail. Anyway the total would be 63 to 68k.

that is like an overhead of 62%. If your friend could gross 300k his package might be worth 116k which would be again 62% overhead. not a bad deal.

If the practice was offering 48 plus benes then they probably reasonably expect him to gross around the 180k figure, or a little more.


Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 8:09 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.92

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no overhead!

by student (no login)

He does not need to pay over head. It is covered by the owner! ANd his malpractice is paid for ($200/month)...

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 11:26 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.68

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overhead

by cma (no login)

my use of the term overhead refers to that percentage of gross income which does not become income or benefit.
his income would be around 38% of gross receipts, so I refered to the 62% retained by the practice as your friends "overhead"
if this friend opened cold in cleveland, he would be praying for the day when he would retain 38% of gross collections as income.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 9:09 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.93

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Do DPMs need a car?

by Jim Truth, DPM, BSD (no login)

Student,

Where is the "tail" coverage for this insurance? Is there any? How much will it be?

50K as a doctor just plane sucks. People get 50K the first year out of college.

And nobody has to worry about getting their butts sued everyday.

Jim Truth, DPM, BSD

PS Why celebrate very low salaries in a "doctor level" field? As your dental school buddies about this money.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:18 AM
from IP address 67.24.15.30

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tail coverage?

by student (no login)

I have never heard of tail coverage. Are you making this up? Please explain! Thanks

Posted on Oct 31, 2002, 10:16 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.152

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covering your tail

by cma (no login)

i'm not an expert in insurance, but there are 2 types of malpractice policies. Occurence (or occurance) and claims-made.

with a claims made policy you would need to buy a tail to insure against lawsuits filed after you have stopped practicing but before the statute of limitation elapses.

there is no tail on an occurance policy.

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 2:53 PM
from IP address 63.185.48.83

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Tail coverage

by Anonymous (no login)

Student,

We don't expect you to know much of what we are talking about. Be sure to ask questions as that is the only way you will learn the truth.

There are two types of insurance:

Occurance and Claims made.

Occurance ins means that once you have it, you are covered even if when the claim occurs, you do not have that insurance.

Claims made insurance means that you MUST still have that insurance when the claim is made or else you are not covered. Hence, "TAIL" is bought when you are cancelled from that policy, change companies, leave podiatry, etc.

Posted on Nov 2, 2002, 12:18 AM
from IP address 63.215.172.2

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An Actual Clinical Question

by Practicing Podiatry (no login)

The patient is a 50 year old male with a chief complaint of pain in his right heel of six months duration who denies any history of trauma to his foot. His neuro-vascular status is within normal limits. Radiographs demonstrate 2 metallic densities approximately 1 mm apart consistent with a broken sewing needle lodged in the soft tissues of the forefoot. Howver, the tip of the needle is not present. Any thoughts as to whether or not the tip has migrated proximally? What test would be appropriate to try and locate it?

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 4:56 PM
from IP address 209.204.178.64

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plain films

by metalman (no login)

any metallic object will be quite apparent on xray

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 3:37 PM
from IP address 12.149.100.21

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Re: plain films

by Anonymous (no login)

I realize that, but how to determine if the tip of the needle has migrated through the bloodstream proximally? A total body radiograph? MRI?

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 12:03 PM
from IP address 158.252.210.102

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My opinion

by Anomalous (no login)

You've got to look for horses before zebras.

The most likely cause of your patient's heel pain is plantar fasciitis. Other possible causes would be Reiter's Syndrome (though unlikely), occult trauma, Achilles tendonitis (unless it's plantar), verruca plantaris (do you see any keratoma buildup? Can you debride any tissue to look for pinpoint hemorraghing?), foreign body (as you suspect) or an entrapped nerve.

Plantar fasciitis is far and away the most common cause of chronic heel pain. Statistically, it usually resolves within a year (about 90% of patients). The best treatment, in my opinion, is stretching, ice and NSAID's. Well made orthotics can also help. The patient may also have changed some aspect of his life like new shoes (or worn shoes), increase in exercise activity, weight gain, running on a cambered track, etc.

I doubt that any part of the needle could migrate that far through soft tissue. Does he remember stepping on the needle? If so, how long ago? X-ray should reveal any metallic object, however. I would do a lateral and maybe a calcaneal axial view.

What else is in his history? Does he have the classic morning pain greater than afternoon pain? Is it located plantarmedial? Does it radiate? Is there pain along the medial or central plantar fascia while passively stroking? Do NSAID's make it better? How about ice? Does it hurt only while standing or ambulating? Does it hurt at rest?

I would treat it as plantar fasciitis for now and make recommendations accordingly.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 6:05 PM
from IP address 64.172.196.241

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Re: My opinion

by Anonymous (no login)

Thank you for your ideas. But, I am seeking thoughts as to how to find the presumably missing tip of the needle. Several years ago, I treated a patient who had stepped on a cat fish spine at age 4 which entered the forefoot. When I saw the patient 14 years later, the spine migrated from the entrance area and emerged several months later from behind the Achilles tendon where I removed it. But how to find a missing needle tip. I am reluctant to order a total body X-ray for obvious reasons. Any ideas re: how to determine if, in fact this tip has moved up into the trunk, etc.?

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 12:10 PM
from IP address 158.252.210.102

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"Occum's Razor"

by (no login)

I am either thinking outside the box or I should be put in a box. But, have you considered purchasing a very strong stud finder? If it works on the known metal pieces then perhaps it will help you find the other smaller metal object.

Actually, my first instinct is that the tip of the needle has either already migrated out of the initial wound or it is too small and has been encapsulated.

Just some new thoughts from an old Podiatrist.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 4:57 PM
from IP address 216.119.28.33

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Re: "Occum's Razor"

by Anonymous (no login)

Thanks for the idea. The tip is not evident in any of the foot radiographs. Assuming it has migrated proximally, how to find it? I am not sure how deep a stud finder might work and where to atart.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 10:43 AM
from IP address 158.252.216.40

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Ultrasound

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

As a resident, I was working on a case where we were trying to find the tip of a toothpick that had entered a young boy's foot.

Of course, very little was seen on x-ray due to the toothpick being made of wood. We ordered an ultrasound which not only found the toothpick, but was able to triangulate almost the exact location.

Of course, the attending and I required a radiologist to read it and tell us where the thing was, but they had it almost dead on as far as how many centimeters from the tip of met head, how deep, etc.

This might be a good option.

Jeff

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 6:39 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Re: Ultrasound

by Anonymous (no login)

An interesting idea. I suppose I can start by ordering an ultrasound of the right leg. But if it has migrated into the trunk itself, I am thinking of a chest film. I will post what happens.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 10:50 AM
from IP address 158.252.216.40

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Another point

by Anomalous (no login)

Remember, too, that if you opt for an MRI it could pull all of the metal fragments from your patient's foot clear out of the skin. Could be a bitch.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 3:24 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.178

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needle

by (no login)

a ct scan will locate any foriegn body, DONT use an mri.good luck

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 5:17 PM
from IP address 165.247.94.55

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Where to find DPM legislation permitting ankle sx privileges?

by Anonymous (no login)

Can someone direct me to a list of states and their respective scope of practice laws concerning ankle privileges. I searched the fpmb.org website and they don't list it.

Thanks

Posted on Oct 24, 2002, 8:48 PM
from IP address 207.166.216.210

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APMA

by Anonymous (no login)

They have a copy of all the states laws as pertaining to scope. I have a copy. They are a little behind since sevral states have added or clarified scope over the last 1-2 years. Today, over 45 states have leg,ankle, or functinal foot laws.
If you are a memeber, I am sure they will send you a copy.

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 3:42 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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How many really?

by Anonymous (no login)

I see the same 5 or 6 people over and over slam this profession. To the students, let's see if all the naysayers who claim the whole profession is a sham can prove it.
Sooooo every negative poster list yourself as a reply. Use your name or an alias but be honest and post once. I can assure you it's less than 10. Also please state whether you are still practicing.
I love it when they say the schools are in trouble because they are private then when one mergers with another school they have lost their independence. Then we don't have a consistent residency then when the possibility of all grads receiving 2-3 year residencies then watch out these grads will keep you off staff. I am losing money evey year and can't pay my bills but I won't switch careers that make more money than DPMs that we always tout because I am so in debt. Doesn't make sense. They have an agenda to destroy not warn. And evry patient, orthopod, plaintiff attorney who reads this site can use their unproven accusations.

Posted on Oct 24, 2002, 7:28 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Naysayer...

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

Ok...you probably consider me to be a naysayer.

The truth, though, is that I think podiatry has incredible potential. I just don't think it has reached that potential, and I doubt it ever will given the way it is being handled by the profession's "elite."

I do think some of the schools are in trouble, but I don't see merging as a bad thing. I think the tuition is too high given the earning potential of most graduates. Truthfully, most don't walk into huge earnings, and many may never earn a huge amount. Of course, that is as much the fault of those DPM's who take the crappy offers as it is of those that take advantage of them. Any way you look at it, though, the student debt is high, and you need to make some serious cash to pay it off. My loans total (at this very second) $177,317.20. I pay $1225.00 a month, and will for the next 29 years! My fault - and I accept the responsibility and am paying the bills every single month. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it.

Please don't kid yourself, though. Don't get cocky by thinking there are tons of 2-3 year surgical programs out there and everybody will get one. Doesn't work that way. And don't go around saying that you, "don't expect anybody to hand you anything, etc." Of course you do. You expect to get a good surgical residency, just like everybody else in your class does. Don't be overly surprised if it doesn't happen - that's my "warning."

Training definitely needs to be more consistent, not only to prepare grads to be able to earn a living in today's medical environment, but also to further the profession. If you go to an orthopod, you know they did at least a 5 year residency. If you go to a pod, they may have only done a preceptorship, or maybe a 4 year program with 2 years of additional fellowships, etc. You just don't know until you check it out. No wonder MD's don't know what we do - most of us don't know what we do.

To answer the other part of your question: no, I do not practice podiatry. Had a few job interviews (that all went to surgical guys in the end) and had one offer for $24k a year (laugh). I did consider starting up on my own, too...and almost bought a practice. Unfortunately, the licensing board screwed me and I was unable to get licensed in the State quick enough to take advantage of what, I think, would have been a wonderful opportunity. So I packed it in (after 8 months of searching) and now I work in insurance - and make more than a lot of my former classmates who practice podiatry. Luckily, I enjoy my job.

At any rate, I hope podiatry is getting better and stronger. I just don't see it.

Good luck to all,
Jeff

(and I have never posted anonymously - I always use my name)

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 8:24 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Thank you

by Anonymous (no login)

Jeff thank you for your honest post and I truly hope things work out for you!
Now that is one honest naysayer how many more and are you practicing? I still say there are less than 10, most not practicing, who are dominating this site. Not to help but to get even with podiatry for their own shortcomings.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 4:42 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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What a shame

by Anonymous (no login)

After your training and experience, I would hope you might realize a few things: 1. Most of what we do is non-surgical, so you don't have to worry about being on a hospital staff to get patients. 2. You don't have to have a lot of money to start a provate practice if you use common sense and don't over do it. 3. Being on an insurance panel is also irrelevant because most patients are very tired of all the run around. 4. Cash is king, not insurance.

In short, my suggestion would be to continue with your insurance endeavors and open a private practice part-time. Why not be open on a weekend when most offices are closed? How about subletting from an internist, etc who may be amenable to some extra income? And don't carry malpractice insurance. The chances of being sued if you do not are infintessimally small. Attorneys only take a case if there is a pot of gold (i.e. insurance policy) at the end of the rainbow. Do some research and let me know if you can find even one case where a health care provider who did not carry malpractice insurance lost a case and actually lost his/her home, IRA, etc.

I hope you don't give up on podiatry. We really need hard workers. Your efforts will be rewarded if you stay the course.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 12:34 PM
from IP address 158.252.210.102

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Creativity

by templedr2004 (no login)

I Like the creativity you have suggested i.e. subletting.

I am a 3rd year student, and I quite confused about podiatry.

You have those individuals who are "above" doing nails, spouting out "I am a foot and ankle surgeon, I will refer you to a podiatrist" while writting a referral. Then you have those that don't do surgery at all.
My Ideal is this: I would like to do surgery at least twice a week, the rest of the time spending on medicine and biomechanics (orthotics, pads, shoe modifications).
Is such a thing possible, or do we now generally get funnelled into strictly surgical practices or strictly medical practices?
Also, how hard is it to form a group, make a corporation, take a loan out on that corp. to open a new practice?

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 7:58 PM
from IP address 155.247.143.34

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my opinion

by worried (no login)

First you need to make sure you get a surgical residency. If you don't get it the first time try again-I would suggest trying twice. If you don't get a surgical you are looking at a primary care practice or a career change. I know of one person who did not get a surgical on the first try so he went to medical school.
Assuming you get the necessary training yes you can do surgery twice a week. I need to see 30 patients a day to yield 2-3 surgeres a week-I'm very conservative and I insist on exhausting conservative care before offering surgery(just my way of ensuring I get a good night sleep) In my situation if I were to eliminate nail care it would reduce my income by 15-20%. At least 8-10 of those 30 patients are rountine foot care(35.00 cash for each of these patients is good) I would strongly recommend you get over it because it is easy and takes about 5 minutes per patient. Plus these patients do refer family and friends and they do come to see me if they have a foot or ankle problem. I can think of one or 2 that have not come to me for foot or ankle problems. When they tell me I do admit I get angry inside but I maintain my composure and explain my scope of practice.
It's not hard to form a corporation. My accountant and lawyer did it for 500.00. I pay 150.00 a year to maintain it. In order to have a corp you need steady income and your business needs to get to a certain level to ensure you can make payroll,ect... It doesn't take a lot of money to open a podiatry practice(I did it with 25,000) If you could get a family member to cosign and you have good credit it shouldn't be a problem. It may be tough t try to get it on your own. The key is location. It's okay to go to an area that already has podiatrists but make sure it is a growing area. It would help also if some of those existing podiatrists are nonsurgical and you are surgical.
I think it is not a question of strictly surgical versus strictly medical but rather a blend of the two(that is for the surgically trained)
I would sugest once you secure your surgical program start focusing on where you want to open your practice. Once you get a location-find office space, get lisences, medicare/bcbs provider numbers, dea, fictious name, yellow page listing, letters to MD's announcing you opening ect... all before you open! I had all of this done and it still took 3 months before I got my first insurance check! Also try to get a family member or spouse to help you in the begining it's nice not to have to worry about payroll for the first couple months.
Good luck to you

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 8:21 AM
from IP address 24.92.208.146

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Re: my opinion

by (no login)

i have been hearing all these bad things about podiatry, and as i am getting closer to getting my degree, i am becoming more worried about the direction of my future. i do not want to open up my own practice in the future, and from what i understand, podiatry is based on starting up your own practice and building it up, etc, but that is something i do not want to do. what other options are available to me, i mean am i able to work in a hospital like md's and still be able to make a decent living? i am really worried about my financial stability, as i hear podiatry is a tough field to make a decent living nowadays. thanks for any info.

Posted on Nov 8, 2002, 1:26 AM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Easy Street

by Old man podiatrst (no login)

Loans are easy. When you are ready, walk into a Bank and before you can open your briefcase, they are filling out the check for you to open the practice!!

They KNOW how much podiatrists make and you will have to get them to DECREASE the number as you don't want to buy a brand new SUV and house with that money also.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 10:06 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.138

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networking

by student (no login)

I keep reading how everyone is talking about you must "network". What exactly does that mean? Is it the same as kissing buttocks? Brown nosing? Remebering the residency director's kids names and unrelatedly repeat them in a conversation with him? And if you don't "network", then it is harder for you to get a psr? Is this the unwritten rule of the podiatry world?
Thanks, Student

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:08 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.138

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"networking"

by 4th year student (no login)

Student,

I don't believe networking has to do with "kissing butt". I think it means getting out in the real world outside of the school and school clinics and meeting successful DPM's face to face. Visit residency programs as a 2cd and 3rd year. Making connections and getting your face out there does not equal butt kissing. I think that visiting early, externing, and revisiting afterword shows initiative and interest. Above all hard work, an easy personality, a teachable spirit, and a desire for knowlege are the most important to getting a good residency.
Will some students get good residencies by connections or kissing butt-- yes, but they will be in the minority. (I might add that in every area of life there are those that get places by connections or brown nosing on golf courses like little whores, certainly this is not isolated to podiatry)
Often those complaining about others kissing butt are those standing on the sidelines while you are out playing the game. Visit programs early, attend academic meetings/CPME courses (often free for students), meet people, get in the game, be active, and when the time comes to extern at a program show interest and work your A off.
I will get a great surgical program this year. I will not have landed it by kissing butt (I don't) or by any connections (I don't know anybody). I will have landed it by hard work, and the "networking" mentioned above. This will also be the same way I land a good job, not by Monster.com searches that some on this site lament that don't list any podiatry jobs. Who wants to hire anyone that sits on their A searching the internet for a job.

Good luck student.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 6:02 PM
from IP address 12.90.39.254

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great answer!

by student (no login)

Great answer! We need more people like you in podiatry.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 11:20 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.209

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Searching the Net for the Good Job

by Alan (no login)

Take a long and lovely look at the podiatric salary offers in the APMA, this factual website, and other podiatry orgs, and you may just be back searching the "net" for that good job with no benies.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 1:05 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.106

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It's who you know

by realisticdpm (no login)

Dear student,
It is much more important to let the residency directors know 2 things. One. that you want their program, and talk to them about wanting to do their program. two. Why you want their program. Show interest, and most of all cater to their humongous egos by telling them how good they are, they love that. Side note: truth be known, you learn more about what not to do than what to do from your residency director.
Networking involves knowing the right people. Who are these people?
Knowing these people is a good thing:
1. buddy buddy with residency placement director
2. Befriend an influential staff member at your school, head of surgery is a good place to start. They know people, who know people.
3. Networking also involves not ticking people off at your school, negative input is just as powerful as positive input.
4. It's good to apply to residencies where you know the people that completed them. A good word from a good resident may just put you in the right place at the right time.
5. It also may help to talk with that pod that got you interested in the field first. They tend to know a lot of people who just so happen to be part of a residency program.

That's it. Most of all, be persistant, keep your head up, So when you open that letter from CASPR that says no residency, you will be able to take it all on the chin. Just kidding.
Good luck (the kiss of death if you ever hear this from a director)
sincerely,
realistic dpm

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 7:57 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Re: It's who you know

by dpm student (no login)

thanks! You sound like a residency director yourself.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 11:22 AM
from IP address 204.185.73.209

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networking

by networkbert (no login)

to network is to connect.
it does not involve the nose or the buttocks.
well, sometimes the buttocks.

surely residency positions go to someone who has networked, perhaps through a relative or by developing contacts with podiatric educators.

your professional life will be dependent upon how well you network with family docs and other health care providers.

Posted on Oct 24, 2002, 12:06 AM
from IP address 63.189.193.185

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Networking

by Anomalous (no login)

To me, networking means all of the above and more.

It also means volunteering your time (health fairs, free foot exams at chiropractor's offices, inner city clinics), shmoozing with other doctors at seminars, CME lectures, etc. Offering quid pro quo with other docs (I'll refer my derm patients to you if you refer your pod patients to me), giving your business card to everyone you meet, etc.

Posted on Oct 24, 2002, 12:49 AM
from IP address 64.167.79.234

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podiatry never promised me a thing.

by it's me (no login)

it didn't.

I knew very well what podiatry was when I entered the profession.
I knew that the 2 pods in my hometown had poor reputations and shabby offices.
I had no delusions that I was obtaining a medical degree. I was getting a podiatry degree.

I learned that podiatrists can and do very well, sometimes.
I think I also got a good education in podiatry.
It was too expensive.


I can't understand the sentiment that "promises" were made. Promised an elite education and MD star status by a school of podiatry.

The belief we had as students, that we would attain a great education, was from within. I believed in myself and you believed in yourself. I knew that success lay in obtaining the right residency, and that they were cruelly competitive.

I don't blame podschool for deceiving me in any way. I deceived myself.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 192.35.79.70 on Oct 23, 2002 7:19 AM

Posted on Oct 22, 2002, 5:13 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.58

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R U serious

by realistic dpm (no login)

Podiatry schools have an obligation to their students to provide them all with uniformity in their education and training. Residencies should all be uniform and they are not. Everyone should be able to do surgical, non surgical care.

Besides, if you knew that this field was shabby, then what was your motivation to join in the 1st place.
get real, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
sincerely,
RDPM

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 8:00 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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reply

by reply (no login)

I knew the profession had shabby potential.

It also has the prospect of becoming a very successful surgeon.

Posted on Oct 24, 2002, 2:00 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.110

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A question for anomalous

by EX pod, now MD (no login)

Anomalous:

I just wanted to know if you are experiencing any luck in the medical school interview process? I read many of your posts and can 100% feel your frustration and pain. I experienced it all also, but thank god I bailed after only 1 year (and $34,000 on a tough life lesson) and am now a board certified internist (Foreign MD) and on staff at a US medical school. The differences in reality between Allopathic/Osteopathic MEDICINE vs Podiatry are so glaring it is not even worht it to try and compare. I honestly hope you secure admission at some medical school (be it DO, MD , Foreign), YOu will finally get to see what it is like being a "REAL DOCTOR" and all of your podiatry pains will seem like just a bad bad dream. Please keep us informed.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 9:27 PM
from IP address 204.186.217.33

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Ex Pod

by Anomalous (no login)

Thanks for the encouragement. You're lucky you got out so early. I went all the way and did a PPMR. But, in retrospect, the fact that I finished and got some decent clinical training, I'll likely gain admission to some medical school somewhere. Unfortunately, I'm very deeply in debt (about 170k). The good news is that I'm getting married in two weeks (which is good in itself) to a woman who is not only supportive of my decision, but earns a lot of money as an attorney in Beverly Hills. She's up for partner in a couple of years. She's also 11 years younger than me (nyuck nyuck).

The application process and having to retake the MCAT have both greatly sucked. I only applied to one DO school and getting all of the correct material to them has been nothing short of a nightmare. I also applied to a few MD school, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm no spring chicken, either (I'll be 41 in a couple of weeks) and I've been out of college for about 100 years. Studying for the MCAT junk after being out of that scene for so long was truly painful (while working full-time at my practice). My scores were ok, but nothing to alert the media about.

I did, finally, get confirmation that the DO school completed my file. Hopefully, I'll get a call soon for an interview. I'll let everyone know what happens.

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 3:38 PM
from IP address 63.206.143.136

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Congratulations

by Current Pod (no login)

I hope the prospective bride has enough sense to obtain a pre-nuptial agreement. When things don't work out, will you still blame those evil powers that coerced you into attending podiatry college?

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:27 AM
from IP address 66.52.180.251

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Pre-nup

by Anomalous (no login)

Getting a pre-nup is a disgusting idea and kind of ruins the relationship if you ask me. When people get married, they are a unit and have equal responsibility for each other. Neither of us are very attached to our money and we have a million other things to do and think about.

If you've read any of my posts pertaining to personal responsibility, you'll find that I accept FULL responsibility for choosing to attend podiatry school. Every other BS thing that happened after that is podiatry's fault.

Posted on Oct 24, 2002, 12:53 AM
from IP address 64.167.79.234

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Borderline

by Sigmund (no login)

"Every other BS thing that happened after that is podiatry's fault." Does that include parking tickets, noisy neighbors, taxes? Rather an all inclusive statement, wouldn't you say? Have you considered seeking professional help to sort out your anger and resentment? I know I have been frustrated with many things in life, but I would be somewhat hesitant to blame podiatry for all my problems. And when you possibly become almost a real doctor, will all these annoying life problems suddenly vanish?

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 4:49 PM
from IP address 209.204.178.64

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What?

by Anomalous (no login)

Do you seriously think that I was referring to EVERY BS thing that's happened after podiatry?? C'mon! I was only referring to every PODIATRY BS thing.

And, for your information, podiatry is the ONLY part of my life that makes me angry. Otherwise, I'm quite well adjusted. But, thank you for the concern.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 11:07 AM
from IP address 64.172.196.241

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I am holding my breath

by realistic dpm (no login)

Dir sir,
I cannot wait to hear why you were denied DO school. Maybe your grades, or perhaps the fact that you already have a profession.
Please, spare us real dpms who want to make a living and apply to a foreign medical school that will take you and your money.
41 years old, I guess it is true, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 8:03 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Continue to hold your breath

by Anomalous (no login)

I couldn't get into DO school the first time around because they are competitive. I got accepted to 4/4 podiatry schools even though I only interviewed with one.

Who says I'm not going to get accepted to DO school? I'm betting that I will. And, I'm going to keep trying until I do because the alternative is far too untenable.

I can't think of a more scathing indictment of podiatry than a DPM who is willing to not only spend another 120k to become a physician, but is also willing to go through another round of brutal classes and clinicals.

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 10:44 AM
from IP address 64.167.79.118

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By the way

by Anomalous (no login)

I got my interview set up today.

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 7:48 PM
from IP address 64.172.196.241

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Save your breath, DPM

by Anonymous (no login)

DPM,

The Podiatry Students do not understand what you are saying. The overwhelming majority of those who look at Podiatry learn enough about Podiatry so that they never choose it.

The few who are are in school have chosen to believe the fabrications and lies that are part of the social fabric of Podiatry. It is a shame.

Some do very well as podiatrists. But a significant number fail at podiatry. And the number of failures are increasing every year.

Podiatry as a career is just too much of a risk today.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 1:12 AM
from IP address 67.24.12.217

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Pathetic People

by Anonymous (no login)

Everyone here is so high on themselves it makes me sick. In response to the stupid doubts that every DPM, student, and everyother person of interest that surfs this forum doubts everyones comments!!! They doubt salaries, situations, credibility, degrees, other professions capabilities, ect. I think that it comes down to being a waste of time. What happened to nice people? They appear to all want to bring everyone down to the same level which is unbelieveable and unhuman. Society in a whole isnt supposed to act like this. Lets give a little credibility and assurance. What a joke.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 4:08 AM
from IP address 63.228.199.145

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Is Podiatry "Crap"?

by Anonymous (no login)

I was asked by an undergraduate, "Is podiatry crap"?

I gave the honest reply. "Yes".

Now, I make over $200,000 a year. But, I have been in practice for 25 years and there is NO WAY that a new graduate can do as well as I did. No offense but the rules have changed and they change big time each year.
It is time for the Podiatry Colleges to tell the recruitors the truth to tell the students.

Posted on Oct 18, 2002, 11:30 PM
from IP address 67.24.15.214

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Stupid Is As Stupid Does....

by Box of Chocolates (no login)

Can one infer from your comments that the past 25 years of your professional life have also been a "bunch of crap."? How sad to think that you hold yourself and your profession in such little regard. I hope you retire soon because it is precisely such negativity that demeans those of us who have earned the respect of our fellow health care providers. As far as income goes, although new practitoners may have difficulty getting on insurance panels, that in itself is not necessarily bad. Believe it or not, patients will pay cash for professional foot care by a highly qualified specialist. However, most people will not waste their money for those pseudo-professionals offering "crap."
Even a recent graduate offering quality services can earn a cash fee of $25.00 per patient. Multiply that times 30 patients per day and that equates to $750.00 per day or $3000 per week or $12,000 per month or $144,00 per year. That is for "routine" foot care and obviously does not include minor surgical procedures, radiographs, or orthoses. How does one treat 30 patients per day? As with real estate investments, the 3 most important characteristics for a new practitioner are location, location, and location. Of course, one must also earn the respect of the surrounding health care community and have that intangible which one does not get from a degree--self-respect.

Posted on Oct 19, 2002, 9:33 AM
from IP address 158.252.223.125

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Not quite

by Anomalous (no login)

Although your math is a little off (it's $15,000 per month at $25 per head), I still find it rather hard to imagine consistently seeing 30 cash patients a day. I've been out for 3 years, have 2 people working every day to secure new patients and I've never seen 30 patients in one day, much less getting reimbursed for every single patient.

The reality remains that new graduates have little opportunity for employment and, further, make far, far less than their physician counterparts, all with the same debt load. It's also misleading to suggest that podiatrists can attract such a large number of cash-carrying patients. This is the exception rather than the rule. IF you're surgically trained and IF you've been out of school for at least 8 years you have a decent chance of making a living. Otherwise, you're likely to be frustrated for a long time.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 6:45 PM
from IP address 64.167.78.134

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Au Contraire

by Anonymous (no login)

The mathematics was predicated on my work week, which is 4 days. 15 patients in the morning and 15 in the afternoon is an attainable goal. Of course, that assumes that one conducts his/her self as a true professional. The only "advertising" necessary is a satisfied patient. With the current epidemic of patients with diabetes, estimated by the American Diabetes Association at 8 million diagnosed and 8 million undiagnosed, there is no excuse for my fellow podiatrists not to be extremely busy. But then again, that assumes one is willing to utilize the education and skills previously attained. Of course, there will always be a signifcant number of individuals who seek to place the blame on everyone and everything else. The glass is either half-full or half-empty--the choice is up to each of us.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 9:34 PM
from IP address 158.252.223.177

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Assumption withdrawn

by Anomalous (no login)

I'm working 5 days a week and coming in every other Saturday. 4 days a week must be nice. Maybe when I get a degree that has some legitimacy and marketability I can work 4 days a week, too.

Part of my problem is that I was denied the opportunity to be fully and competently trained as a full scope podiatrist. Doing a PPMR with no other training is a crap shoot at best. Of course, I can cut nails and calluses like a talented Vietnamese manicurist and I'm skilled in cryptotic nails and verruca. Other than that, my biomechanics training sucked, I had no surgical training and I saw about 10 diabetics in my entire 5 years as a pod student and resident. It's a good thing that I trained for 6 months as a real physician in a real hospital seeing very sick patients, tending to gunshot victims and assisting in every kind of surgery. I at least got to feel like a real doctor for a short time. Unfortunately, this is all relegated to cocktail conversation since my scope of practice is severely limited, not to mention my skill level, pride in my profession and clinical experience.

And, PLEASE, don't tell me that this is my fault! My school punted when it came to providing meaningful clinical experiences and the random nepotism festival they call CRIPs could only offer me a worthless, 10k a year crap residency. How in the hell is that my fault!? As I have reiterated time and again, I did my part, got the grades, did the volunteer stuff, got the glowing letters, etc., but was left out like so many other deserving students. As it is, I feel uncomfortable with many patients who walk through my door, not because I'm an idiot and not because I lack self-confidence, but because I know that they deserve someone who has enough experience and education to treat them with a high level of expertise.

What has podiatry done for me? Well, I can tell you that I will one day be the pre-eminent nail avulsion/ ER doc in the country!

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 4:00 PM
from IP address 63.206.143.136

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Your training was CRAP.

by Anonymous (no login)

Your training was CRAP. Is it YOUR responsibility for the training that your profession gave you?

NO!!!

It is time to speak out regarding the level of truthfullness in this profession. The truth is, you and others were not told the entire truth.

So, Webmaster, don't publish this note as I am stating the obvious, that is, that there are institutions in this profession that are less than forthcoming. Let's keep on in our silent conspiracy in not droping the dime on those in this profession that does not tell the entire truth.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 12:47 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.229

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I wish

by 3rd year out (no login)

I have been out 3 years, hence the name. LOL. I see 6-14 patients a day, and I consider myself a decent guy. I like how you quote nice diabetes stats. Too bad I can't pay the bills with them. Reality is out there waiting for you.

Good Luck, you will need it.

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 5:29 PM
from IP address 64.45.238.172

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Nice Diabetic Stats

by Anonymous (no login)

What is "nice" about the diabetic statistics? What it represents is an opportunity for you to diagnose and treat diabetic foot problems. And make a good living helping others. If you are only seeing so few patients, perhaps it is time for introspection, instead of blaming others. Do you drive patients off with an unkempt appearance, dirty office, dour personality, etc.? It is easy to complain, much more difficult to implement changes.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:24 AM
from IP address 66.52.180.251

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Happy Happy Joy Joy

by 3rd year out (no login)

An opportunity you say. I agree. But I can't get on the managed care panel to see them. The old boys kept me out of the wound center. The physical therapists and the ortho do wound care too. The pie is shrinking and my fork is too short.

My office is the cleanest in town, some of my patient's remark how it is spotless. I am clean cut, short hair, pressed white coat. I have a good sense of humor, I'm a podiatrist after all, LOL.

I would love to make changes in the insurance panels and the public perception " you see kids, right", and get the old millionare pods to let me in the wound center. Perhaps with your infinite wisdom you can let me know how to do that?

Your right it is easy to complain, I have a lot of time on my hands. Of course It's all my fault there are not enough psr 24 to go around. I should have earned a 3.9 gpa instead of 3.8. I should have kissed the big brown eye a little better. I should have gone into computers is what I really am saying.

Yea my sense of humor with the patients is really diving them away. That's it. Now I can see 40 patients a day starting tommorrow.

Thanks, you really have all the answers I was looking for. Cheers.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 5:26 PM
from IP address 65.40.13.204

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The "system" fails young Podiatrists.

by Anonymous (no login)

This is the truth. Older podiatrists and the
schools have in their best interest not to tell
"the full story".

This Forum is popular as we tell it like it is.

The Truth about Podiatry. What others will not tell you, we will.

You can't earn a living at this.

Medicare will not cover mycotic nails soon.

The Students have huge loans that are not repayable.

No status as only a foot doctor.

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 1:37 AM
from IP address 67.26.42.19

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Medicare not covering mycotic nails will be a good thing

by young podiatrist too (no login)

Because cash is good! Most patients will pay for it! At least that has been my experience and I look foward to the day when I don't have to try to explain the stupid guidelines to patients. After you explain they say-"Oh they are painful doc" Than I say you just told me they weren't painful are you asking me to engage in fraud?" Than they say no of course not how much is it? And I say 35.00 and they say okay it's worth it I can't reach em anyway! The glass is half full in my world not half empty! Have a good day!

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 4:29 PM
from IP address 64.196.60.39

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Patients will not pay cash.

by G Johnson (no login)

The patients will not pay cash. That is the truth. And if they do, they will pay the nail technicians rather than podiatrists as they will get MORE services from them.

Under no circumstance will the DEMAND be what it is if medicare no longer pays for toenails.

If you think otherwise, go right ahead. Bet your entire economic future on that.

Failure in podiatry is a strong possibility today for those in the podiatry schools. That is the strong reality. Good luck to the students.. they will need it.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 1:46 PM
from IP address 67.25.8.56

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Re: Patients will not pay cash.

by Anonymous (no login)

I don't know where, or even if, you practice podiatric
medicine. If you are and can't offer a more pofessional and medically oriented treatment than a nail technician, then please get out of the profession. There are many different nail pathologies which are often misdiagnosed and not treated appropriately. Are you even aware that there are dermatophytes that cause both onychomycosis and tinea
corporis? How about the melanoma masquerading as a paronychia? Have you ever biosied a nail bed or do you defer those procedures to your local nail technician?
There must be a reason patients aren't paying cash for your services. Maybe the service just isn't worth it??

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 12:22 PM
from IP address 158.252.210.102

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Patients come to get their toenails cut.

by Anonymous (no login)

YOU can call it whatever you wish. But the elderly patients come to get their toenails cut. With medicare, it is free to see a podiatrist. When it is a non-covered service, the visits will be much much less and the DPM will have no competitive advantage over others who cut nails.

That is the truth, Son. Face it.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 11:52 PM
from IP address 63.215.172.11

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Re: Patients come to get their toenails cut.

by Anonymous (no login)

How about patient education? With the epidemic of diabetes, you should be diagnosing it in your patients. How about giving your patients inofrmation concerning the fact that onychomycosis is an infection of which there can be many different pathogens. By definition infections can spread and do. Have you ever seen tinea corporis? Have you ever dianosed peripheral neuropathy? Have you ever diagnosed peripheral vascular disease? The list goes on. Practice to the full extent of your professional license and the benefits will follow. Act like a health care professional, not a nail technician, and you might be very surprised.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 11:03 AM
from IP address 158.252.216.40

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Impressed by the sound of your voice.

by Anonymous (no login)

Have you ever thought that that you have an elevated view of yourself and think that that patient is sucking up all of the information that you are presenting?

They present for toenail cutting that is free. Medicare pays for it. No Rocket science here.

When it is no longer free by a DPM, they will go to a nail technician and pay more but they get nail polish.

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 12:10 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.150

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diabetes is not an epidemic

by student (no login)

Actually, Diabetes is not an epidemic. You should look up the criterial requirements for calling a disease an epidemic. The CDC website is a good source.

Posted on Oct 31, 2002, 10:26 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.152

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Totally agree

by (no login)

Medicare should not pay for "Routine Foot Care" except for true medical necessity, i.e., Mostly in the Skilled Nursing Facilities.

I have a house call only practice and plenty of the assisted living residents, or their families, are more than happy to pay out of pocket. Especially when I tell them about the local Podiatrist that went to Federal Prison for one year, lost his license and was fined $50,000, for cutting toe nails and billing Medicare. (True story: He was 71 years old when it happened)

I will get phone calls from the family when they get my bill and I am also tired of telling the same story and explaining about how Medicare has changed the rules so they can save money on corns, and toe nail cutting. At the end of the day I feel more like a Chiropodist than a Podiatrist, but it brings home the bacon and I don't worry about the Feds like I used to worry.

I also give occasional lectures, show gory toe nail pictures, at the local cosmotology schools. Half my lecture is about telling them when and why they should refer the eldery clients to a Podiatrist for basic care of the feet.

When Medicare cuts out routine care period, then not only will the patients pay cash, you will also no longer need to explain why you can't bill Medicare. Plus, the patient will hopefully go to the Podiatrist with the best personality, office staff, etc., instead of the Podiatrist that will still bill Medicare.

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 5:53 PM
from IP address 216.119.28.33

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Pie in the sky.

by Anonymous (no login)

More fantasy for the students. It sounds so easy, but, when it is time to reach this goal, one will realize that it is nearly impossible to reach UNLESS on has an incredible referral base.

Posted on Oct 22, 2002, 12:54 AM
from IP address 67.26.41.106

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No 30 patients per day.

by Anonymous (no login)

Silly.

How does one see 30 patients per day. Only mature practices will even approach such levels.

It is "OK". Podiatry is all about "lies" in order to get more students in the classes.

What do you do when Medicare pays $5 per patient for mycotic nails? Got to take it as it is Federal Law.
Great to have a practice cutting nails?

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 10:19 PM
from IP address 67.26.41.117

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Initiative and self-repect

by Anonymous (no login)

How does one see 30 cash patients per day? By offering professional care in a professional manner in a professional location. But then again, it is so much easier to complain instead of investing in self-improvement. You have the DPM degree and the means to make an excellent living. Whether you chose to do so is up to you. Perhaps you should have an objective third party come in and observe how you interact with your few patients. Are you really doing a professional job and projecting a professional image? Look to yourself for the answers.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:32 AM
from IP address 66.52.180.251

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Failure?? Well, it MUST be me.

by Anonymous (no login)

Well, someone fails at Podiatry and it HAS to be the fault of that person.

Can't be "podiatry". right?

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 8:07 PM
from IP address 67.26.40.70

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Finally the truth

by Anonymous (no login)

The first true statement posted on this negative site. If one suceeds and another fails whose fault is it? Look in the mirror.

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 3:48 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Examples of nobody's fault

by Anomalous (no login)

The following examples are not my fault. The only fault that can be ascribed to me is the failure to thoroughly investigate the weak infrastructure of podiatry. Very few if any pre-podiatry students would be paranoid enough to even think of asking these kinds of questions. There has never been a single pre-MD or pre-DO student who felt it necessary to ask these questions.

Affirmative action (helped me get denied to MD school)

Not enough podiatry residencies (PPMR for me)

No surgical training (can't get on plans)

Incredibly pathetic and inadequate clinical training

Non-merit based residency selection system (see PPMR)

No hospital training before residency (makes for a very ill-equipped and embarassed resident)

No loan repayment programs


Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 8:09 PM
from IP address 64.172.196.241

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Failing as a Podiatrist.

by Been there. Done that. (no login)

Well, it is certainly possible for massive and catastrophic failure as a podiatrist. And the loans won't ever get repaid.

Great life, huh? Swell. Tell EVERYONE that you are a "medical student".

"F A I L U R E" is a strong possibility. Start to plan on getting out of podiatry.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 1:50 PM
from IP address 67.25.8.56

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Wow

by Anonymous (no login)

Now it's affirmative action that has made your life miserable. Come on you didn't get into med school because you couldn't. It's not affirmative action, plenty of white males still get/got into med school.
Now when you didn't get in you (yes you) jumped into podiatry. A second choice and truth be told the probable true reason you didn't succeed and you are unhappy.
All of the items you listed were any promised to you?And the reason you didn't get a PSR-24 I bet it was affirmative action? No it's because only brown nosers and those connected got the programs. And the state board screwed you? Wow a true conspiracy to make your life so bad. Come on anyone can see the common denominater in all of these why can't you? Are you practicing?

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 4:49 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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The truth should be in the numbers

by (no login)

From reading some of the posts on this site, it appears that HEAL loans are no longer available to Podiatry schools. Apparently this is because of the high default rate of Podiatry graduates.

If this is true, then couldn't a strong arguement be made that the Federal Government, by default (no pun intended), has been the biggest negative poster on this board.

If there is no one that can argue my point, then I will assume that the final word about the number of negative posters on this board will include the entire Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Education and the Congress of the United States.

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 9:21 PM
from IP address 216.119.18.229

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Nice Try

by Anonymous (no login)

Nice try but they are not posting on this site. You and a few I repeat few others are. If this profession is such a mess why are there only a handful of you who control this site and make it negative.
BTW, HEAL loans are still available to podiatry students and chiropractors are the biggest defaulters.
Don't try to add allies from the federal government just admit you have a personal vendetta against the profession.

Posted on Oct 26, 2002, 4:54 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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OK, let's play who's right instead of what's right.

by (no login)

According to "worried" and "Mark Boyer", the HEAL loans have been phased out. Who is right? You or them?

Posted on Oct 27, 2002, 6:23 PM
from IP address 216.119.28.33

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Does not matter quanitity

by ALan BLankenship (no login)

It does not matter if 1 or 1000 people are stating facts regarding this profession, facts are facts regardless of quanitity of individuals stating their concerns.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 12:47 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.106

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Sure it does

by Anonymous (no login)

I do not believe they are facts. My experience and the experience of many others differs from the what a handful of people who are trying to poison the well here. If you can demonstrate to me that 50 people are posting here and not the same 5 then It may hold more credence. I especially have problems with people who are not practicing and may have not in several years telling those who are in the trenches how things are. Many allegations such as HEAL loans not being available, the it's who you know BS are just that.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 6:49 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Good Point

by (no login)

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 11:48 PM
from IP address 216.119.4.65

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Sure it does

by Anonymous (no login)

The number and the demographic is important. Would you take the advice or the 2 students of a particular course in college if they were the only 2 who failed the class? Of course not they obviously didn't grasp the content and may blame their failure on the school, professor, or textbook.
My advice to the students or applicants is to talk to people who love and hate the profession and then weight it any way you want.
For those who are already in school or residency, why listen to people who have failed, changed professions, or are bitter. How will they help you to succeed? My advice is to talk to and surround yourself with those with positive attitutes and are doing well. There are plenty of all ages and all residency types. They can inspire you and you can follow their lead rather than listen to people who are only trying to bring you into their miserable view of podiatry and often life.
My opinions

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 9:21 AM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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1 or 1million Factual Concerns- Doesn't Matter Problems Exist

by M. Boyer (no login)

Dear Sir/Madam:
True story:
Regarding your example re: the student who flunks a teacher's class then tells everybody the class stinks.

Maybe that professor told one student that disabled people don't belong in med school and maliciously campaigned against her- academic fraud/corruption abound not only in podiatry. Just because the prof. said that to one student and she has it on tape does not make it false. THe reason why so many pods. remain anonmymous is because the "profession" is very catty and jealously abounds and retaliation could occur AKA: Dr. Brian Gale travesty.

It simply does not matter if one retarded child stated she was raped and their was forensic evidence attesting to this point. SO what if she is mentally challenged, the fact is she was RAPED-immediate action MUST be taken. Same goes with podiatry schools, and podiatry political/trade orgs. that use outdated stats to lure 20 yos into a profession with little potential save a few with nepotism, or 3year cream-puff residencies that lack consistency or true rigor.

If one of our bretheren has some problems based on FACTS that is serious and as a real profession we must help him/her. Isn't that what the musicians union stands for. To bash someone as a loser or a minority "whiner" or "bitter" ( would you characterize a person who lost their entire family in 9/11 as "bitter") Deal with reality, you may be doing very well in podiatrics, however, there are others who are not and it is NOT because they a "losers" or "bitter". For a staggering student loan debt, embarrassing job "offers" and other tricks, people have every right whether 1 or 1 million to voice their concerns Good luck.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.213 on Oct 29, 2002 7:31 PM

Posted on Oct 29, 2002, 1:02 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.106

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truth, truth, truth, truth, truth

by Anonymous (no login)

What is the truth? do you think that everybody has an opinion?

Or do only those who are "successful" have an opinion?

The fact is, some tell others to "run from podiatry".
What happens if these folks are right?

Is it worth a student or resident to bet their entire life on the success of a profession on the skids?
Ask the parents and grandparents.

Posted on Oct 30, 2002, 12:25 AM
from IP address 67.24.15.30

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i think i'll run across the USA

by forrest (no login)

what planet are you from? NObody pays cash anymore

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 10:43 AM
from IP address 12.149.100.21

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he can't help it. He is a DPM

by Anonymous (no login)

Please do not find fault with a "30 patients a day at 25 bucks per patient and all pay cash, and you will buy a Lexis and live in a beautiful home and have a blond model wife with another lady on the side".

It is not reality, but don't worry, it is designed to give the ILLUSION that Podiatry is a great profession.

Heck, these podiatry illuisions have been used for generations.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 12:50 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.229

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Re: he can't help it. He is a DPM

by Reality Sucks (no login)

Almost, but not quite. It is a Jaguar, not a Lexus-- (you have to be able to spell it before you can expect to drive it)And more importantly, she is a brunette, not a blonde. Much more exotic. And yes...I am a practicing DPM.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:40 AM
from IP address 66.52.180.251

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3rd Rock

by Colonel Klinger (no login)

People will always pay cash for professioanl care which helps them and educates them. However, they will not pay cash for an inferior service delivered in a haphazard manner. Do you project negative vibes to your patients? Respect and patients are earned, not a birth right.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:37 AM
from IP address 66.52.180.251

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Wrong. Simply wrong.

by Anonymous (no login)

I am very sorry. The days of "cash patients" are long over. Tell the truth, young man.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 8:09 PM
from IP address 67.26.40.70

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No CASH patients.

by Anonymous (no login)

no cash patients. i agree

Posted on Oct 25, 2002, 1:38 AM
from IP address 67.26.42.19

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No Cash Patients?

by Anonymous (no login)

You guys must be secluded.
I am still a student, and I have visited 2 private practices. One in Florida, and One in New Jersey. Both of them are thriving on cash. The one in Florida doesn't take (by choice) insurances.

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 9:17 PM
from IP address 155.247.143.34

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Re: Is Podiatry "Crap"?

by Anonymous (no login)

Posted on Oct 28, 2002, 4:31 PM
from IP address 217.154.78.165

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EMTP

by Anonymous (no login)

In my local paper there was a story of a podiatrist who arrived on the scene of a terrible accident with several high-priority trauma patients. When the paramedics arrived the DPM told them he would assume command of the scene because he was a "doctor". He is now is several wrongful death suits and his license is under suspension. Why would a DPM falsify himself like that? He is not trained to handle any type of trauma emergency except maybe a laceration or fracture of the foot. I laughed but also sighed for the families who were vicimized by this DPM. He stepped way over a critical line. A ER-Nurse is more highly trained to deal with total trauma than a pod. This was brought up also in my medic training class at my university. The idea was who can treat who and with what authority... The rest is up to you, thoughts?

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 2:19 AM
from IP address 63.226.70.91

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My thoughts

by Anonymous (no login)

I may sound a bit irritated but it's bad enough when some MD misunderstands my training and says something insulting without any hard facts. Now I have to have an EMT try to insinuate that a DPM should not stop and render help and care. I am familiar with this case it happened some time ago in an isolated area of Montana. A DPM with a multiyear postgraduate surgical training stopped after devasting automobile accident where there was mutliple fatalities. He and an RN, who worked in an ER, offered aid and attempted to stabilize the injured. It took some time for the paramedical(part time who worked in other jobs) help to arrive and there was, from the TV reports, some personality conflicts with the original people and those arriving. After it all hit the fan the staff stated that the DPM told them he was an MD something he denies.
For the record I was an EMT while in college. I also performed a multiyear surgical program, maintain ACLS and spent time during my ER rotations treating all phases of trauma. In fact we were not there to do LExtremity trauma during our ER rotation but to see and experience the basics in trauma care. I ran codes, placed chest tubes, central lines, intubated all under supervision like the other residents in the ER. Now I am the first to agree that when there is trained emergency medical personal available they should be in control. I had experiences where a G.P. would stop and their help actually hindered our care while I was an EMT. However when they are not available, any good samaritan should be able to stop and provide assistance to the best of their training and abilities. I do not care what their initials are. A modern era surgically trained resident with ER experience ACLS, possibly ATLS training would be more beneficial than many MD specialties. I would rather have that individual take care of me than say a Psychiatrist, dermatologist, opthmalogist etc. Nothing against them but they often would have less experience in emergency management. Granted once more experienced trauma personel arrives then treatment should be handed off. Trained EMTs/ Paramedics are a God send,however, there are many partime EMTs who have no undergraduate or graduate education and serve most of the time as a minister(as in your case) or other lay jobs. Their experience can be quite variable and I have seen some panic when their first or even 100th real emergency arrives.
Look when we start arresting and prosecuting medicall trained individuals who stop and help then only the untrained will stop. Is that what we want? No. One final point the podiatric ankle and foot surgeon's biggest supportors were the fanilies of the people he tried to help.
Just my opinions.........

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 1:29 PM
from IP address 216.110.12.18

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Podiatry Needs Rigorous Training/

by Alan Blankenship (no login)

There is a huge difference between memorizing bits and pieces of trauma classifications (that even used very much in the real world) in podiatry school versus completing a legit. ACGME approved trauma fellowship either general or ortho at a major academic teaching hospital. That is why podiatry is, and at many times rigthfully so a third class/tier specialty that absolutely needs to REQUIRE rigor, real rotations at real hospitals (not band-aid box general in Georgia).

Posted on Oct 18, 2002, 8:09 AM
from IP address 134.174.244.221

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RE:Training

by Pod Student (no login)

I have been informed through school administration and residency directors that Residencies will be changing.

This may pass via CPME 320 and JRRC as early as January or as late as July 2004, affecting the Class of 2006 DPM's.

All residencies will be comprehensive PM&S-24 or PM&S-36 based on where one goes. There will no longer be the mishmosh of many different residency types. It is hoped that this uniform residency will alleviate the confusion today.

Posted on Oct 18, 2002, 6:17 PM
from IP address 68.20.215.22

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Training

by Anomalous (no login)

Great! That'll happen just in time for me. Not.

Posted on Oct 19, 2002, 9:40 PM
from IP address 64.167.78.134

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promises

by Anonymous (no login)

There has been "promises" from the Podiatry School Administrations from day one. Now, a new generation of students believe them and report them as the Gospel.

Now, is this a good idea to have 3 year Residencies?
Well the Student Loans will just get that much bigger.
Do you think that the Average Podiatrist will LOVE to know that the new Graduates will conspire with the hospitals so that the older podiatrists with only one year will no longer get privileges?

When the older podiatrists realize that their hospital privileges will be over in time, they will HATE the newer podiatrists. World War III will be less destructive.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.236 on Oct 20, 2002 9:13 AM

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 12:49 AM
from IP address 67.26.40.138

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Podiatric Promises, promises

by M. Boyer (no login)

I also promised by a APA trustee 4 years ago, that the DPM degree would certainly be changing to an MD degree, be very leery of "promises" especially those purported by DPM at the end of his/her name.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 5:57 PM
from IP address 134.174.110.5

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On Being An Adult

by Anonymous (no login)

What is your point? As a presumably educated adult, do you believe every "promise"? If you want an M.D., go back to school and get it. Otherwise, be proud of your D.P.M. and conduct yourself like a professional, instead of whining. But then again, that might require a little initiative.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 9:39 PM
from IP address 158.252.223.177

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Integrity/Honor

by Mark Boyer (no login)

I use my name and not as an anomymous pro-podiatric champion and have served on the clinical faculty of a well-known podiatric school, written letters to APA, called state boards and got no where (calls not returned, e-mails unanswered, registered mail unread). THe statement regarding the MD change was from your leaders at the APMA if they are LYING to you then what CAN you believe. Last time I checked, the APMA was not free to join.

I take the initiative to warn anyone I contact/willing to listen regarding this "profession" and have the documentation to prove thanks to my sources. Good luck.

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 2:27 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.124

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DPM, not MD

by Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (no login)

I have never been for such a degree change. If we had enough qualified, competent self-starters, students would vie to become a DPM. Many of us are so riddled with self-doubt, that we blind ourselves to the opportunities which are right in front of us.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 11:44 AM
from IP address 66.52.180.251

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pod saves the day

by who cares-good 4 u (no login)

Truth of the matter is, he is protected under the good samaritan law and cannot be sued or held liable for his actions at the scene of a trauma situation. As for whether he is a "doctor". The training any of us got is good enough for the scene of a traffic accident. Seriously, what are you going to do besides call 911-triage, and wait for the emts. You have no meds, no defib machine, nada. All you can do is CPR, and even joe cook at the local bistro can handle that one. We are all trained in basic cpr. So the fact that this guy jumped in to help people is great and should be commended. I feel for the families of the deceased, but come on, the podiatrist was the only "doctor" on the scene.
answer to question is "DUH"
sincerely,
who cares--good 4u

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 1:35 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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my bad

by who cares-good 4u (no login)

MY BAD, THE EMTS arrived and he still took control of the scene. duh on his part. Hopefully if he was incompetent, the emts would have realized this off the bat. If not, perhaps he did the right thing.
sorry,
WCG4u

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 1:37 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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really

by Anonymous (no login)

It seems unbelievable to me as a practicing podiatrist! He may have had the type of training during his residency to make him feel as though he could help in that situation. Even is this was the case it was very foolish.

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 5:08 PM
from IP address 24.92.208.146

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Emergency question

by Anomalous (no login)

Haven't you heard of the "Good Samaritan Law"? Anybody can render assistance to someone in need as long as they don't do anything egregious or felonious. A podiatrist is better than nothing. A podiatrist IS a doctor and certainly has more knowledge of an emergency than a CPA. This law protects you as long as you don't do anything idiotic.

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 10:05 PM
from IP address 64.172.197.77

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Dead Wrong

by Standard of Care (no login)

Rather than throw out idle speculation, why don't you provide the readers with some facts, i.e. who, what, where, and when? Do you know any facts concerning the education and training of this podiatrist? Do you know if he had been an "ER-Nurse" or a paramedic for 10 years before matriculating at a podiatry college? What if he was a graduate of the Advanced Trauma Life Support (ATLS) course offered by the American College of Surgeons? Perhaps a medic in Vietnam? At the scene of a horrific accident, any knowledgeable and trained individual is welcome. By the way, I am a podiatrist, have completed the ATLS course, have certification as an EMT, have assisted at several tragic accidents, and resent the implications contained in your poorly written and ill-informed commentary. Every single time I inject medication into a patient's body, I am legally responsible for any complications which may occur and am prepared to treat them. If I have a patient go into anaphylaxis, do you propose that I limit my emergency treatment to the foot? Perhaps you should investigate this case more thoroughly, and indeed, the education and training of the podiatry profession, as opposed to "laughing and sighing."

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 11:38 AM
from IP address 158.252.240.8

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Re: Dead Wrong

by Anonymous (no login)

Actucally, this happen about 2 years ago and the doctor was cleared of any wrong doing. He was not sued by anyone and the families of the victims thanked him for his efforts. Dr. Wolf was his name if I am not mistaken.
fyi: Dr. I would not get upset about what anyone says on this board. Most of the negitive posts are by disgruntled people who lack any semblence of a personality and show their ignorance through their posts.

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 9:03 PM
from IP address 206.149.205.163

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Standard of Care

by Anonymous (no login)

The facts are the facts, bottom line. The PODIATRIST assumed command of the scene claiming to be a 'doctor'and why yes he is a doc, he is a doc of pod. medicine. What if a PhD came across the scene and claimed to be a doc even if he had been a medic in vietnam 30+ years ago it doesnt justify his actions. There were paramedics working under his supervision. Maybe if someone ripped their toe nail off he could have helped. I have an idea for you, go clip some nails. Why you did the trauma coarse is stupid. What are you going to do with that? Work in the ER? (Yeah, maybe mopping floors)

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 9:39 PM
from IP address 63.226.70.91

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Pathetic

by Anonymous (no login)

The incoherence of your response is exceeded only by by your inability to spell or utilize proper grammar. What is a "trauma coarse"? "Coarse" is an adjective, which can be also used in conjunction with "rude" to describe your pathetic, moronic response. How would one describe the condition of the human foot after it has been run over by a lawn mower, shattered in a car accident, lacerated by a knife or punctured by a pentrating wound? Are not these examples of trauma? Or do we need to define that word for you also? Bottom line is that you obviously know little of what many practicing podiatrists perform on a daily basis across the United States. I hope you have a medical alert bracelet on your person in the event that you are seriously injured in an accident on an isolated, rural road. That way I will know not to stop and try to prevent you from exsanguinating from a lacerated femoral artery. However, I suppose I could use a mop and clean up the mess after you expire. Utilizing the concepts of universal precautions, of course. You may want to take a standard first aid course to understand that concept though.

Posted on Oct 19, 2002, 2:27 AM
from IP address 158.252.212.125

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Lets see who is pathetic

by Anonymous (no login)

I know exactly what podiatrists do on a day-day basis. You clip and chip thats all. Dont try to make yourself out to be what you are not which is a physician. You are not trained in emergency medicine one bit. I know because my best friend is a pod with a 3 year res. at kaiser under his belt and he has confirmed that you know about as much about emergency medicine as you may know about carpet cleaning. I have been a paramedic/firefighter for 11 years now and wouldnt ever ask for a podiatrists assistance. I could outshine him out in the field of on-site emergency medicine anyday. Why do you think that you arent able to do more than toes, nails, ect.? It is because you are totally useless in any other areas. Sorry I misused the word coarse. It had been a long day of emergency work unlike yours, trying to market yourself as a real doctor, make decisions on whether the nail should come off or not, or trying to convince insurance companies that you are a health care professional, not to mention worrying about how you are going to pay next months bills.

Take a look at yourself compared to medical doctors, dentists, nurses, ect. You are at the bottom of the 'food chain'. I understand that you need to take out your frustration on a forum so go ahead but realize what you are which, is a bottom feeder and what you are not, which is a medical doctor.

Posted on Oct 19, 2002, 6:35 PM
from IP address 209.181.151.155

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Re: Lets see who is pathetic

by Pathetic Redux (no login)

It is interesting to note that you describe yourself as a "paramedic-firefighter." Isn't the correct professional designation "firefighter-paramedic." Was this a Freudian slip on your part, trying to elevate your sense of self-worth? Your other comments stand on their own lack of merit, mired in sublime, blissful ignorance.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 4:02 PM
from IP address 158.252.241.209

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Pathetic Redux

by Anonymous (no login)

Actually I am a paramedic/firefighter. I am solely incharge of the ALS transport team via ambulance. I havent fought a fire or worked in that specific area for about 8 years. So no elevation or what not. Thats just what I am. I just retired off the S.W.A.T. as well as a S.W.A.T. medic. What have you done today? Tried to convince yourself you are a 'RD'?

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 11:11 PM
from IP address 63.228.199.145

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Pathetic pissing contest

by Student (no login)

I'm a "paramedic/firefighter/SWAT team" who gives a crap. I will be a podiatric surgeon and love what I do. You are involved in medicine at whatever level you are and you love it. We ARE BOTH NEEDED. Isn't that good enough. The people on this site belittling others are extremely immature and have obvious insecurity in what the do. Get a life people. Be content with what you are, there is always a couple hundred million people in the world more important than you by the worlds standards whether you be MD/DO/DDS/DPM/EMT/PA etc. Be content with what you are and stop putting others down to feel good about yourself.

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 8:09 PM
from IP address 12.90.41.42

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DPMs and fungus toenails

by Anonymous (no login)

Incredible that a Podiatrist tries to put you down for the choice of one word over another. How can that be?

"Big" Podiatrists.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 12:53 AM
from IP address 67.26.43.229

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Not a skunk

by Anonymous (no login)

When one maliciously attacks and demeans my chosen profession, I am morally obligated to respond. There is nothing pathetic about standing up for oneself.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 1:57 PM
from IP address 66.52.180.182

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Podiatry Profession is a disgrace.

by Anonymous (no login)

Go ahead and defend the podiatry profession. It is a disgrace if it needs YOUR defense.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 8:11 PM
from IP address 67.26.40.70

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Podiatrists Dont get Trauma

by Anonymous (no login)

Hey, swell to show off. But, very few podiatrists get on the ER rotation. Very few podiatrists get trauma.
It is private practice and not a residency.




Podiatry is all about toe nails and telling Medicare that the cutting of toe nails is essential for the significant ambutation of the Seniors.

It's time for the truth, folks.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 12:52 AM
from IP address 67.26.40.138

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Bravo!!!

by Anonymous (no login)

Atleast someone here is real.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 11:13 PM
from IP address 63.228.199.145

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I know you

by Anonymous (no login)

After reading your hysterical comment I realized what your actual profession. A profile, if you will. Observation and examination of the text show that you didnt (or wouldnt) stop to help me because you dont know anything above the ankle and nothing below the ankle. You know toenails though (no denial upon accusation). However you did mention you are familiar with a mop and its usage.

You are a janitor

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 12:36 AM
from IP address 63.228.199.145

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NOT TRUE

by Anonymous (no login)

This is the story of the Podiatric Hero, Dr Andy Wolf.
Read about his case on the MAIN PAGE of
www.BrianGale.com .

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 9:35 PM
from IP address 67.25.11.81

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TRUE

by Anonymous (no login)

I can second the initial story. I saw the same story about a week ago in the paper. OK?

Posted on Oct 19, 2002, 6:43 PM
from IP address 209.181.151.155

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Re: TRUE

by Just the facts (no login)

What paper and when? Why don't you post the story so the rest of us can judge for ourselves?

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 7:59 PM
from IP address 158.252.209.125

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Training

by Student (no login)

I think the response to your idiotic post was well written and showed the situation the way it really happened. A pod surgeon with multi-year hospital trauma experience/ ER rotations would certainly by competant in that situation. Get your facts straight next time. I guess you're just another ignorant person that has no idea how well most pods are trained.

Posted on Oct 18, 2002, 1:07 PM
from IP address 155.247.166.24

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Pod Student

by Anonymous (no login)

No, most pods are ignorant enough to think that they can provide this type of service, which is not in any way true.

Posted on Oct 19, 2002, 6:41 PM
from IP address 209.181.151.155

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Podiatry Today

by Pod Student (no login)

I have been surfing this forum for some time now and it's really getting to me. The attitude of this forum is overwhelmingly negative. Almost everyone is complaining about the profession but what are they ACTIVELY DOING to change the situation they are in? I am not talking about changing careers but taking responsibility for the decisions that one has made for themselves.

I know of several Scholl graduates who are doing well in their careers and who never heard of this forum. One Scholl graduate ('99) finished his PPMR in Palo Alto, CA and a PSR-24 at a well-known hospital in Chicago and has now just joined an Orthopeadic Practice in the North Shore with two MD's with priveleges in prestigious hospitals.

Getting into podmed school may be easy for some but finishing may prove difficult. We have a decent MCAT average and high GPA averages (for the class of 2006) but there are a good few who are struggling with the course material. I believe if you really want something that badly, you can get it. You can't give up. One must exhaust every possible resource. I know if I apply myself I can do many things. I know there will be a great deal of networking and I am starting now!

As a Scholl pod student, I see changes for the better of the profession. Whoever said Scholl was bought out did not do the research. Scholl has an enormous endowment providing scholarships to many of its students based on merit.

The merger with Finch not only makes Podiatry more visible to future allopaths but gives future pod students more exposure to general medicine and surgery. We will be integrating with the M1's and PA's in our Intro to Clinical Medicine. We will have rotations in Gen Med and Gen Surgery as well as Psych and OB/GYN (didatic and clinical not as long as M3's). Basic Biomed Science courses are also beginning to be integrated as well. This can only help the profession, not hinder it.

As for class size, the max is 100 students. The PM1 auditorium will hold no more. We have 87 students in our class and I think that is plenty. According to students at Temple, they have a PM1 class size of 71. Many students applied to 2-3 or less schools. I know of several who only applied to Scholl. There were a couple of students who declined acceptance to allopathic med schools to pursue Podiatry. I think the class of 2006 at Scholl is an excellent class.

I definety think a "new breed" of Podiatric Physicians is in the making!

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 1:43 AM
from IP address 68.20.177.205

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I look forward to your postings 15 years from now.

by AnonPod (no login)

Your optimism reminds me of the optimism I had when I was a student studying back in 1982. Then reality set in, I graduated and set up a private clinic. I hope this forum is still operating in 15 years because by then you will have much different comments about how wonderful podiatry truly is. When I meet students today they say, "wow you got in on the ground floor" and I say, "I never left it and am still struggling on it". The only thing that is going to save me financially is the inheritance I receive from my parents when they pass on. Very sad but true.

Posted on Oct 15, 2002, 7:07 PM
from IP address 199.212.26.244

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Salary and Finances

by NGM (no login)

How is it possible that the same small group of podiatrists that continually post on this board can't earn enough to live in comfort? In the Chicago area, many podiatrists here also bitch about their salary, but they earn over $150,000 a year! In fact, one of our family friends is a podiatrist, and I worked in his office last summer. (I am a college student right now, pre-med). He started his own practice right after residency, and has two different office locations. He does surgery twice a week at a respectable hospital, works about 60-70 hours a week, and easily makes around $180,000 a year, and this value increases every year as his patient base increases. I also know another podiatrist who has opened many clinics all around the chicago area, and has hired other podiatrists to run them. There are opportunities in podiatry only if you take the initiative. Why is it that all the podiatrists I talk to complain about their $100K+ salary, while all the podiatrist on this board seem like they need to move back with their parents to survive finacially? And also, why do podiatrists complain about social status/not being "real doctors". Podiatrists are capable of doing foot and ankle surgery, practicing sports medicine, and quite frankly, they are specialized to take care of foot/ankle problems, even more so than MD's! In my opinion, podiatry is a branch off traditional medicine, just like dentistry or optometry. There is no shame in being a podiatrist. Having healthy feet is essential to our way of life, and as we age, most of us will have foot problems. There will always be a market, no matter what happens.

Posted on Oct 15, 2002, 11:43 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Try podiatry and see for yourself!!!

by AnonPod (no login)

You're in pre-med graduate, get into podiatry, you'll find that a very easy process, graduate and then set up a very lucrative podiatry practice. I bet you a thou' that you'll be on this forum in 10 years also complaining about how slow business is.

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 8:10 PM
from IP address 199.243.160.57

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STUDENT LOAN CRISIS

by Anonymous (no login)

The Loans will be paid back some day. At 1200 a month or 2000 a month for 30 years.

Faiure to repay means no medicare checks.

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 9:43 PM
from IP address 67.25.11.81

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I Will Try It

by Pod Student (no login)

Well, let us see...First of all, I am a podiatric medical student of the best Pod School!

I know of several MD's, DO's, and DDS's who are stuggling to keep their practice going and work an enormus amount of time. On the flipside, I do know of MANY who are doing well. Every profession has its PROBLEMS and CHALLENGES.

Of the dozen DPM's in Chicago that I know, NONE, let me emphasize that again, NONE are complaining about the lack of patients nor their salaries. Three of these are 2 years out of residency. One of them just finished his PSR-24 and is now in practice with 2 orthopaedic surgeons. Five have been in practice for 5+ years amd the other 4 have been practicing for 10+ years. None of them have warned me about not going into Podiatry. In fact, they offered to help me out. Some of these docs are good friends of mine. I see how they live and I know their lifestyle. It was stressed that I must try my hardest in pod school to get the grades, secure a good residency, and NETWORK! I have been and will continue to do so. I knew of 2 pods who left because they were not happy practicing LE medicine and went back to medical school.

I cannot empathize with any of the "Unfortunate" ones who post on this forum as I know nothing of their backgrounds. It's sad to see that many who are disgruntled try to put down the profession. Instead of complaing, why don't they do something about it! Or TRY to. That is my BIGGEST problem with this forum.

Posted on Oct 18, 2002, 6:10 PM
from IP address 68.20.215.22

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Re: I Will Try It

by Anonymous (no login)

Look at the facts. Check out the Long Island, NY yellow pages of 5 years ago and a current one and see how many podiatry practices no longer exist.

Go to a Seminar and listen to the Podiatrists bitch about how hard it is now to make a living.

Listen to the 25 podiatrists who will be getting Criminal Inditements from the OIG for the trimming of Mycotic nails.

Network and get your good grades. I am sure that in the 6 years when you are a DPM that things will dramaticly improve. Somehow you will make it when Medicare pays $5 bucks for mycotic nails.

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 12:56 AM
from IP address 67.26.40.138

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Keep Up The Good Work!

by Anonymous (no login)

I am proud that you can see through the whiners who spend their time disparaging our profession on this forum. Most of us who are happy in our chosen field probably don't even give them a second thought. Having worked hard for 20 + years as a podiatrist, I am making an excellent income, have the respect of my fellow health care professionals, and am helping people. What more is there??

Posted on Oct 20, 2002, 7:57 PM
from IP address 158.252.209.125

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What more is there?

by Anomalous (no login)

Funny you should ask.

How about giving back to the profession? How about helping out the ill-trained new graduates who will likely go bankrupt and fill up the ranks of this forum?

20 + years?? God, I hope you're doing ok! None of us are talking about well-entrenched, well-connected DPM's who have not only carved out their niche, but have bulldozed out a gaping pie hole for their very own.

Posted on Oct 21, 2002, 4:05 PM
from IP address 63.206.143.136

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This "Profession" Should Give Alot More to its Victims

by Alana Blankenship (no login)

What more can you ask???!!!

How about student loan repayment options
How about nothing being done by the weak podiatry orgs for neg. student loan amortization. SOme of us (over 18yo)were not subsidized by our parents/relatives and have very large loans with over $1500/monthly podiatry student loans. I can't even afford to pay the interest payments-and your profession sits idly by. We were ALL given the salary stats etc... that enticed us 20 yo to sign up for podiatry --... then reality enters.
How about another walkathon and call in for that "very serious" heel pain or very ugly bunion from a medicaid patient-unreal. a joke.
How about uniform scope of practice in all 50 states
How about real research in real journals?
How about Dr. Brian Gale
How about weak, fraternity like podiatry associations that mainly change semantics instead of real immediate change for its constituents and the podiatry student loan crisis.
How about lack of credibility/vailidity of the DPM degree.
How about lack of intergration into real medicine.
How about low ball salary offers
How about the nepotism/croenism/back slapping festival called CRIPS.
How about the poor quality/inconsistent school/residency training.
How about asking permission from an MD to cut toenails at a nursing facility.
How about being a pedicurist/cosmetic bunion "surgeon" the 80-90% patients.
How about charging students fees/dues to these weak podiatry orgs.
How about no admission standards to the schools
How about the recruiters using old data and skewed info to taint prospective 'applicants."
I could go on, but I have to go back to Wendy's, we have 2 new employees-funny make more here than in podiatry as an asst. manager.

Posted on Oct 23, 2002, 1:40 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.114

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Re: I Will Try It

by Anonymous (no login)

Give me a break.

Posted on Nov 1, 2002, 4:37 PM
from IP address 64.95.25.49

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you are wrong

by Anonymous (no login)

People will have foot problems. The problem is WHO will pay for these treatments.

The payment per vist is less every year.

Podiatry is NOT medicine.

Posted on Oct 17, 2002, 9:40 PM
from IP address 67.25.11.81

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Correction

by Anonymous (no login)

Student:

For the school to give discounts on the tuition to the first year students is just good sense when you have a product that is NOT IN DEMAND !!!!!

That does not mean that the school is well endowed.

YOU check your facts, misinformed student. Your ignorance is shocking especially when we spoon feed you the facts.

Your first step is to learn what others outside of that school are saying. You have this forum and the internet and you can choose to learn, or you can just ignore this. Ignoring this does not make this not true.

S. Simone, DPM

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 12:06 AM
from IP address 67.25.9.155

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Misinformed?

by Misinfored Student (no login)

Well these tuition "discounts" are not given to all the students and I do know it for a FACT! There are 15 half tuition "DISCOUNTS" and 20 merit "DISCOUNTS" alsothere are 10 more half tuition "DISCOUNTS" for PM2 class as well as merits. These monies or "DISCOUNTS" are given from the Foundation to the college the other monies are to be used for the Foot museum. These "imaginary" funds or Discounts then must come from an "imaginary" family. Then I guess the School of Podiatric Medicine is "imaginary" and is still named College of Podiatric Medicine and the professors just teach for "imaginary" salaries or "DISCOUNTED" salaries. Oh I guess I'm just a student who is naive and doesn't investigate the school I want to attend or maybe I AM JUST MISINFORMED.

Could you the tell me where the school gets its money to allow many of its students to get DISCOUNTS?



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.227 on Oct 17, 2002 3:05 PM

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 3:55 PM
from IP address 68.20.211.37

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Re: Misinformed?

by Alan Blankenship (no login)

Scholl student:

I attended their "interview" process back in 1995 and it was embarrassing (not to mention a gum chewing student proclaiming the beautiful pool in the dark, moldy basement. The students who were interviewing on that day were not qualified, many multiple rejects from allo, osteo, and dent, one even chiro. So I guess if you have graduated from an undergrad. people have actually heard of, and have obtained a B avg. or better as a science major, then you may qualify for a tuition discount (AKA "scholarship"). Then the "Deans" and other high paid lackies can state that they have so many students with this GPA from these "prestigious undegrads." If podiatry has/maintains non-mainstream status why are the tuition fees so expensive and much more so that the state MD/DO/DDS schools which offer far more ops/$$/lifestyle that podiatry? Go look at the OCPM website for jobs I think there were 4 or 5, 3 of them were PT (no benies) nursing homes/chiropodist/pedicurist duties, another reqd. a 3yr. "sx" trained res. for 60K (a joke) with the "potential" to make 100K. I also may have the potential to pay my mortgage, student loans, etc...
Good luck.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.231 on Oct 18, 2002 5:57 PM

Posted on Oct 18, 2002, 8:20 AM
from IP address 134.174.244.221

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Dropping out of PSR 24

by Anonymous (no login)

If I'm in a PSR24 and am 1 year in, can I drop out and still get credit for a PSR12?

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 10:06 PM
from IP address 207.166.216.211

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don't

by evreemanpod (no login)

I'm curious what could make you want to abandon your second year. It doesn't sound like a good idea.
Is your residency worthless?
Are there social or economic reasons.
Don't drop out because you think you should go out and make some money.

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 5:22 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.65

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Answer

by Residency Director (no login)

No

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 10:42 AM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Can I have your spot?

by searching (no login)

Why would you leave a surgical program? Are you in the Northeast region? I'd love to get into a surgical residency program and would take your slot if possible, ie. geographically and if the program would allow it.
I don't think you'll get credit for anything if you leave in the middle of a residency. Are you changing careers?

Posted on Oct 12, 2002, 6:58 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Re: Dropping out of PSR 24

by Anonymous (no login)

Betcha they screw you. After all, they are podiatrists

Posted on Oct 13, 2002, 3:06 PM
from IP address 67.24.13.154

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What's with the P&A Question???

by Physician and Surgeon of the Foot & Ankle (no login)

It's you and the fact that this career is not standardized that makes it difficult for other nail podiatrists to practice. I can't believe that you even had responses from other people from this board. What a disgrace. Get your head out of your ass!

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 4:23 PM
from IP address 65.59.40.191

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For the podiatrist

by Anomalous (no login)

Apparently, you're one of the many who just can't bring themselves to say that they're a podiatrist. It would seem to me that you're getting a pretty close look at your own descending colon.

"Physician and Surgeon of the Foot and Ankle"??? Gimme a break! My best friend just went to a non-medical conference the other day and happened to be seated next to a guy who sheepishly said he was "a foot and ankle surgeon". My friend says, "Oh, you're a podiatrist". This guy stammers "uhh...yeah...I'm a podiatrist" as if he was embarassed that he was found out. Good God, man! If you're going to criticize a new practitioner at least don't embarass yourself by denying your rightful title!

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 12:57 PM
from IP address 64.161.169.56

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thanks cma & others for response P&A

by newbie (no login)

Thanks for the code, I didn't know that the code name for a P&A is 11750, I've only done coding for 12 patients to date so even this info was very helpful.
I'm expecing to see my patient in 9 days for the P&A. Thanks for your help,
Newbie

Posted on Oct 9, 2002, 9:51 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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apology

by cma (no login)

I apologize for the tone of my reply to you.
I think the pod college you attended should have better prepared u for practice.
One thing I frequently did for diabetics was an ankle brachial index with a doppler. You might do that and chart it before operating.
I'm aware that podiatric college clinics are not what they were 20 years ago, but every student should leave with experience in nail surgery and hammertoe surgery in addition to routine and ortho problems.

Posted on Oct 10, 2002, 7:03 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.101

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Schools don't always do their job

by Anomalous (no login)

Unfortunately, the schools and the post-graduate period that's called a "residency" don't always give the payee (the student) the necessary tools to practice podiatric medicine.

In my PPMR, I did all of one arthroplasty (with supervision) and 6 bunionectomies (one where I was the primary surgeon). I also assisted on a plantar fibroma surgery. I never saw or performed a single surgical matrixectomy, I never saw or performed a neuroma surgery, I never saw or performed any metatarsal surgery other than the bunionectomies. Those aforementioned surgeries were the only exposure I was afforded in my training. Of course, I did rotate for 6 months with real doctors in a real hospital and did real doctor things like treat real patients and order real tests and medications, but that was all for fun since now I'm just a highly indebted, highly educated dead tissue scraper/ foot and ankle strapper.

Posted on Oct 11, 2002, 1:16 PM
from IP address 64.161.169.56

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Re: Schools don't always do their job

by Anonymous (no login)

So was the major problem here the education from the school, or the education (or lack) in residency?

What can the schools do to fix this problem?
What should CASPR/CRIP/CPME?etc do to fix this?
What should the new students be alert for in order to avoid this?

There seem to be many others out there who did not have these (or similar) experiences, though it appears that some do. From this it would seem that the problem lies more in the residency than the school.

Interested to hear comments.

Posted on Oct 14, 2002, 10:48 PM
from IP address 65.178.208.195

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Both

by Anomalous (no login)

In my opinion, both the residency and the school failed in several ways. I've addressed this question more than once so I'm not going to go into detail, but suffice to say that I feel I didn't get my money's worth.

The school did a good job overall with the basic sciences. It failed during the clinical years. It failed, along with the whole profession, in providing enough decent residencies. Some of the residencies were more than adequate, but many were nothing short of an embarassment. My residency was great for general medicine, but stunk when it came to podiatric pathology. It was also only a PPMR, which is the reason that I'm looking to abandon podiatry and go back to medical school. This residency no longer exists by the way.

In a nutshell, podiatry needs to emulate traditional medical schools in their curriculum and approach to medicine. A podiatric education is a slipshod way to become a "doctor" and ends up sending ill-trained students out into the world. If they're going to charge so much money for the tuition then they need to back it up with a quality education and meaningful clinical experience.

What should CASPR/CRIP's/CPME do? CASPR could begin by taking students into the residencies based on merit like other post-graduate medical residencies. They could lower the cost of attending. The residencies clearly need to be standardized with at least one year of surgery included. These are old issues that seem to be discussed ad nauseum, but never seem to be actually addressed.

Posted on Oct 15, 2002, 12:58 PM
from IP address 64.161.169.56

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Re: Both

by Anonymous (no login)

CASPR could begin by taking students into the residencies based on merit like other post-graduate medical residencies.
------------------

Based on merit sounds good, but how do you determine "merit"? Do you suggest this be based on grades? If so how do you compare grades across the schools? I understand that some schools have >25% of the class with 4.0s. Other schools have a to student with ~3.6-3.8, so what do grades truely indicate? Maybe this would lead to a comparison based on "Board" scores. (So what went on this year with Part I?) this in turn leads to "teaching to the test", which is what happens in DO/MD programs. The focus is away from a "real" education and more towards getting the students prepared to do well on a test, as that is now your measure of success.

What role to the "non-teachable " traits play? Some people are simply better at "dpctpr-patient" interacions than others. This also goes into interactions with co-workers and other providers.

Now, I'm interested in hearing what you might have to say aboout setting up a "merit"-based" system. I think you might find that it has as many if not more problems than the current system. I also agree that the current system needs some serious changes. The question lies in how.

Posted on Oct 15, 2002, 11:12 PM
from IP address 63.186.0.34

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So you start...

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

Since you (honestly) point out that the schools are all over the place in their grades as compared to the other schools, you start there.

Podiatry is small enough to have a standardized curriculum and timeline. At least that would give some measure of comparison between schools.

You can't base it on board scores, because they are basically pass/fail, and are too easy anyway.

As for CASPR merit, which is the original idea, you cannot refute the evidence. There are very few programs, I would say, that honestly choose residents based on the CASPR process. Most already know who they want. They charge you $25-$50 to apply to their program, set up a day of interviews to make it look like they are really searching for somebody, and then they pick who they already wanted anyway. I even know of one program that purposely doesn't rank all three of it's PSR-24 positions so it will have at least one of them open to accept somebody after the match (when they can get you to send more money to apply).

The point is that there is no accountability for who gets what. There will always be top students (didactic and clinical) who don't match, while there are students near the bottom of the class, who can barely tell their left foot from the right, matching with 3 year programs because their dad is a local podiatrist.

The solution is to start at the level of the schools and then work up to the residencies. Dissolve CASPR completely. It's little more than a social meeting for directors, paid for by the students.

Of course, I could be completely wrong - but I'm not.

Jeff

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 6:48 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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I agree

by Anomalous (no login)

I agree with your estimation on how the grades are calculated throughout the schools. They are certainly inflated. Of course, the schools have so much to reform they may not get around to it for 50 or 60 years. Merit should be based on grades, extra-curricular activities, boards and personality. It CERTAINLY should not be based on ridiculous pimping by jerks who need to belittle someone to validate their existence. Clearly, the boards need to be a little more challenging, as well.

When I went to CCPM some of the course grades were inflated, but not all. Probably something like 50%. We also had academic liasons who would go to the professors representing the students when the students felt that certain exam questions were unfair. This further disrupted the curve.

I have a personal gripe with the system since I feel that I did my part by getting good grades (that, for the most part, weren't because of inflation), was well liked by both professors and administration and did several extra-curricular activities, all for nothing. I matched with a PPMR, which didn't fully prepare me to be a competitive podiatrist.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.227 on Oct 17, 2002 3:09 PM

Posted on Oct 16, 2002, 10:18 PM
from IP address 64.172.197.77

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