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Created in 1999 to facilitate intelligent & constructive communication between prospective students , podiatric medical students & doctors.  Thank you for making the PF the busiest podiatry forum on the internet. Comments expressed are NOT those of the webmaster, moderators nor advertisers/sponsors but rather reflect the opinions of that individual poster.  

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billing services

by carrie (no login)

no offense to the many complaints posted here, not to say they aren't a reality, but I just want some simple input on the use of a billing service... does anyone have a list of "billing agencies to avoid" or advice on how to evaluate a "good" billing agency? Everybody says you can't go solo anymore, and especially if you are going cold.... I'm doing both, stupid? maybe, but risk is the first step on the road to in success.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 1:02 PM
from IP address 129.71.94.102

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Billing services

by Anomalous (no login)

It might be worth your time to educate yourself on proper coding. It really isn't that difficult. The hard part is when they start to deny claims and then you need to call and figure out how to dispute them.

Aside from that, I found my biller simply by asking around. Find an established pod (if that's what you are) and ask. Don't pay more than 10%.

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 12:43 PM
from IP address 63.206.143.83

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Dear Jeff...

by JeffAdvocate (no login)

I think that you should be studying for the residency placements. You are a doctor and you should do it for the benefit of yourself and your fellow man. 99% of the population doesnt know what you know about medicine and surgery and my belief is that you should share that to the people in need. Work your way up and up until you are the one being worked up to. You have the chance to make a difference in the lives of several people for the better and utilize your skills to manage medical pathologies of the worst nature.

I smell a PSR-36 but the question is do you? I know and believe that if you want something bad enough you can do it no matter the bumps along the way. Pull your head out and go full steam. Failure is not an option to the strong minded.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 12:30 AM
from IP address 12.72.136.253

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The Future of Podiatry....

by Anonymous (no login)

As we all know, podiatry has had its fair share of trials and tribulations in the past few years. Much discussion has been posted here about the ability of future doctors to succeed and hopefully make a rewarding living.

So, much ado may be written about the problems that exist for current students.......but what about the students that are just starting their education? More specifically, I'm curious to know how large the roster is for the year that has just started, and what is the institution's administration doing about these problems?

I thank anyone for their response.





    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.221 on Sep 15, 2002 9:08 PM

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 6:35 PM
from IP address 64.209.30.75

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To the PPMR Trained

by Icculus (no login)

I hear so much whining about getting matched with a PPMR and not being able to make a living. To those who were so unfortunate, why didn't you try to get a surgical residency following the PPMR? It's never too late, in fact your odds are much better now with the decreased pool. I'm sure glad I was matched with a PSR-36. If I hadn't been though, I sure as hell would have spent less time on the computer and more time trying to get a better residency.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 12:07 AM
from IP address 166.90.232.44

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How many years...

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

Ok. And how many times should one try to obtain a surgical program? When I graduated, there were only PSR programs for about 50% of the graduates. And let's not forget the 100 or so DPM's that did try to come back a second time and take programs from new graduates.

I matched a PPMR and then went through CASPR again. Still, no surgical match. Since it costs me about $2k each time I tried, how many times should I have tried?

I have been out for several years now. Should I try again? Should I leave my job that pays in the mid $50's so I can get a program that pays $30k or less? All so I can finish up and either get another job that pays $50k or less as a scut monkey, or borrow several more thousand dollars to buy out a practice?

The fact is that several DPM's that match a PPMR do indeed try to obtain a surgical the next year. Some even come back a third time. You can only do this but so much before you lose all your self respect. The process is completely bogus and hardly worth spending the money on.

Think before you write.

Jeff

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 10:16 AM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Re: How many years...

by Icculus (no login)

Mr. Davids, I always think before I write. What are you doing responding to my comment anyway? CRIP's are in January, shouldn't you be studying??? Third time's a charm.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 4:36 PM
from IP address 64.152.156.233

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Re: Re: How many years...

by We Lie Mucho, DPM (no login)

Mr Iccchiouos

Every podiatrist gets a great residency that is high in surgery and does very well as an associate and in his own practice.

If one does not do well as a podiatrist, it must be because something is very wrong with him. There is huge need for podiatrists everywhere.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 4:00 PM
from IP address 67.25.10.23

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is a psr-12 worth anything?

by dpm student (no login)

I keep hearing about the psr-24, 36...does a psr 12 worth anything? Is it better than a ppmr? I hope to hear from anyone who knows the answer. Thanks

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 8:15 PM
from IP address 204.185.73.207

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Re: is a psr-12 worth anything?

by Anonymous (no login)

Yes it is def worth applying to!. I did 2 years of rpr in which I thought I was getting good surgical training(150 cases a year)-Was I surely mistaken! It wasn't until I did my 3rd year in a psr(600 cases) did I realize how much I DIDN'T Know and how much I lacked in surgical techniques. Get your surgical training!

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 10:19 AM
from IP address 64.196.60.17

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Re: To the PPMR Trained

by Lawyer (no login)

Dear PSR-36,

You think you are so high and mightly. It must feel good dumping on other Podiatrists. But let me tell you, as a Malpractice Lawyer, I love it when Clients come in following foot surgery. I settled a case for $400,000 regarding a bunion surgery that still hurt in a ladies shoe. I got a great settlement following a diabetic lady who lost her toe. And another lady with a hammertoe that was not straight and did not touch the shoe also settled for 6 figures.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 10:21 AM
from IP address 67.25.10.145

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you love it when people are in pain?

by Anonymous (no login)

How can you say you love it when people are in pain? Oh yea- the money. The money is the only thing that drived the low life bottom dwellers of our society. As the popular commercials say "For the people"-yea right.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 1:30 PM
from IP address 24.92.208.146

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Wow you must be proud

by Anonymous (no login)

Was there negligence or did you take someone and make money off them and raise the cost of healthcare? Let's see 400,000 because a bunion still hurt and six figures for a toe that wasn't straight. Now let's be serious.
The bottomline is you made 160,000 and 40,000 on those above cases. That's why you took the cases. If the plaintiff was a poor witness or the case was a hard one to prove regardless if the doctor was at fault would you take it?
Stay on the lawyers web sites.
Now you see why a negative web site where we vent and tell all of our perceived warts only add fuel to the plaintiff's attorneys and orthopedists. This just confirms my fears that in fact our enemies do visit this site.
Come on DPMs remember what you say is being read but others.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 2:16 PM
from IP address 152.163.189.129

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Sick

by Anonymous (no login)

You ideologies is what is wrong with the US pertaining to the advocates of the civil laws and how they may be manipulated. You should reconsider your thoughts and make a run for it because you are not the kind of person anyone likes for your own demons... money. There is no such thing as a perfect surgery. Complications arise. Just the other day in my local paper a young woman, to be married in 3 weeks, was having her 3rd molars extracted by an oral surgeon and due to anesthesia complications, in which was also being performed by her oral surgeon, she died of a myocardial infarction... to you lawyers ... a heart attack. Lets publicly crucify the doc. She had a preexisting heart condition that she had known about for several years and was not supposed to be put under general anesthesia by orders of her cardio-doc. She didnt relay the info to her oral surgeon and her family doc gave her a clean bill of health with a letter to the surgeon saying it was a 'go'. The oral surgeon is being sued for 4 million dollars. Not his fault but debatable i guess.
No one can stand people (sharks) like you.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 12:39 AM
from IP address 12.72.136.253

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Malpractice

by cma (no login)

You refer to an incident where an Oral Surgeon performs a general anesthetic on a young(I presume) woman which results in myocardial infarction and death.
With the history of some heart pathology.
The family should probably sue for more than 4 mil.

A likely scenario in this case is that the DDS induced general anesthesia with propofol in a patient with severe Aortic Stenosis, who also happened to be dehydrated from being NPO. Her afterload and preload both dropped abruptly and she experienced a prolonged hypotensive episode which caused her heart tissue to infarct.


On top of this her Cardiologist had warned that Anesthesia could be a danger. Now cardiologists don't really know a lot about Anesthesia. This patient could have been safely anesthetized by an Anesthesiologist.

There are a couple of other scenarios which could have been involved here.

Aortic Stenosis is one of the easiest murmurs to auscultate, And I do auscultate almost all the patients I anesthetize. Sometimes if the senosis is severe the murmur will be decreased.

I don't think the DDS is going to get off the hook on this. He certainly doesn't deserve to.

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 6:10 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.73

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cma, opinions needed

by interested (no login)

cma, give me your opinion on DDS, MD (oral maxillofacial surgeons) doing their own anesthesia for SEVERAL major procedures including facial fractures, cosmetics, jaw surgeries, ect.

The DDS whos pt. died was initially induced with decadron (dexamethasone) .5mL for edema than administered Bolus of sodium pentothal for induction.
This was followed by curare (a long-acting morphine compound) and a long-acting scopolamine compound. Succinyl choline chloride (Anectine) was also be used to paralyze. Sublimaze and Innovar were also used to obliterate or 'jug' her memory.

Thoughts?

Usually an Anesthetist does this DDS's anesthesia but was out on vacation for the day, imagine the odds.

What would you have done different if anything?

Posted on Sep 19, 2002, 12:17 AM
from IP address 63.226.69.52

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offffice based anesthesia

by cma (no login)

Oral surgeons receive training in general anesthesia. I think about 3 months in their 2nd year. In residency we had a position for a DDS grad who generally wanted to do an oral surgery program but didn't match. This person ended up doing 2 0ne year stents and finally matched at an OMFS program in Cali. The next year we had another DDS with the same goal.

The surgeon performing an operation should not be solely providing a general anesthetic at the same time.

He or she should have an MDA or CRNA provide the general.

The purpose of OMFS residents training in anes is so they can safely provide sedation in their office.

In this case the girl should have beeen done in a hospital under the care of an Anesthesiologist.

Decadron was given for postop edema and possibly PONV.
Sodium Thiopental is fine but I use it only in patients allergic to components of propofol or in cases where cerebral protection is paramount for example the last time I induced with STP was a patient with cerebral herniation undergoing an emergency craniotomy. STP increases cerebral vascular resistance and being able to cause burst suppression is consdered better than others at reducing brain metabolism.
The choice of curare is bizarre. I'm not even sure you can get it. It would be inappropriate for Ambulatory Anes. because the potential for recurarization is real. I'm assuming the doctor did not use curare.
Scopolamine is a questionable drug in office based surgery. If given as an antisialogogue, robinul would have been a better choice. Scop crosses the blood brain barrier and can cause a central cholinergic syndrome with confusion, nightmares etc.. Generally it is used in a situation where for some reason the physician is worried about awareness. For instance in an injured bleeding patient undergoing emergency laparotomy wherer a general may be comprised of muscle relaxation, some judicios opiate and scop so the patient has no awareness.
curare is not a long acting morphine compound.
sublimaze is fentanyl and not reliable to "jog" memory. Even at pretty high doses combined with nitrous it is unreliable in providing amnesia and the doses necessary would be unsuitable for Ambulatory surgery.
The anesthetic technique appears unusual to me.

The real problem is that a proper workup was not done preop. An H&P by an anesthesiologist, including auscultation of the chest, and collaberation of the findings of this girl's cardiologist would have prevented this death.

Several times I hyave discovered murmurs of AS and even large abdominal aortic aneurysms in my patients during a preoperative assessment.

If this girl did have AS the anesthetic could have been altered to prvent her death.

How do you know what was given? Did you see the anesthesia record?

Posted on Sep 19, 2002, 11:06 AM
from IP address 209.183.88.69

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cma

by Anonymous (no login)

I have worked at an oral and facial surgery center for the last year and the doc I work for is on the board of review for these types of cases.

I spoke with Mr. XXX XXX, CRNA who has provided anesthesia for him in the past and he said that there were several arguments about urgent intervention that needed to be done in several cases so who has the knowlegde and authority the DDS or NA? Who is better fit to make those kind of judgements? I dont know, your opinions? I didnt even know nurses could do anesthesiology I just knew that Mr. XXX, CRNA was the anesthesiologist I didnt know what CRNA stood for (but I do now, thx)

So yes, I saw the record and that was it (prev. msg) exactly. I take it from your reaction that it was done in a non-protocol type manner. Why wouldnt the Family Prac. have a copy of her heart conditions. He signed a form sent to the DDS saying 'green light'. I thought that medical records were supposed be shared by all practitioners, yeah? Guess not in this case.

Scenario: You are putting under a pt. for jaw surgery. The surgery will last no longer than 60-90 minutes. You need a fast acting agent. Ketamine? If you could I would appreciate a professionals opinion on what you would do as far as the drugs you would administer. Thank you for your response.

Posted on Sep 19, 2002, 6:34 PM
from IP address 216.160.238.111

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ketamine

by cma (no login)

First of all, an FP "clearing" a patient for anesthesia is absurd. What we want is for the patient to be optimized. i.e. a patient with COPD should not present for a GA with an acute exacerbation, a hypertensive patient should not present with BP 205/110

Sometimes we are interested in a cardiac evaluation including any stress tests, echos, caths etc.

"clearance" by an FP or internist is really completely useless. Orthopods where I practice routinely send patients to their FPs for "clearance" and the FP writes on a scrip pad "cleared for anesthesia" or some similar worthless phrase. And what's beautiful is these patients occasionally show up coughing large amounts of green sputum etc

The FP or Internist knows next to nothing about Anesthesia and I don't know a single Anesthesiologist who puts any value in their opinion. The most beautiful example I've ever seen is a hospitalized patient qho was being seen by several internists( cardio, nephro, etc.) and they all had written a note saying that since the patient had Aortic Stenosis she should have a spinal anesthetic. I'm still chuckling.

One of the worse scenarios for a patient is to be operated on in the office of a limited license practitioner with a CRNA (oral surgeon and CRNA). Neither of these practitioners has the full medical and anesthesia training that anesthesiologists have.

to answer some of your questions ketamine is almost the perfect anesthetic, except that an induction dose may leave the patient in a state of dissociation making it difficult to discharge them. One patient I had said it was like being in the movie "Matrix"
I rarely use it

A typical GA for ambulatory srgery would be fentanyl,lidocaine,propofol, muscle relaxant, zofran, toradol.

Posted on Sep 23, 2002, 10:17 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.115

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Re: ketamine

by Anonymous (no login)

A typical GA for ambulatory srgery would be fentanyl,lidocaine,propofol, muscle relaxant, zofran, toradol.
------------
Would this be a GA or a MAC?

I think the majority of podiatric ambulatory surgery procedures could be done with IV sedation and a local or regional block.

It is nice to be able to do primarily elective surgeries on generally healthy patients.
(How many other specialties can regularly do this?)

Posted on Sep 24, 2002, 10:10 PM
from IP address 63.50.65.129

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ga

by cma (no login)

that would be a GA muacle relaxannt would preced tracheal intubation.

Posted on Sep 25, 2002, 5:24 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.97

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cma, thanks...

by Anonymous (no login)

I have to question that in your previous post you stated 'that a anesthesiologist or a CRNA should have provided the general' but in your last statement you contradicted that statement by saying a CRNA should not have done it as it was the worst case scenario for the patient. Could you explain your motives? I am just curious to why as you would go back on sich a statement. You appear (with all due respect) to be one way minded in the regards to the nurse anesthesiologists.

Just food for thought. Thank you.

Posted on Sep 25, 2002, 1:10 AM
from IP address 63.226.69.107

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not one minded

by cma (no login)

In the case of the oral surgeon I'm under the impression that he anesthetized the patient and she either coded on induction or he proceeded with surgery.

I really don't know what happened

In any case a surgeon should not provide a GA and perform the surgery.

I don't consider myself antiCRNA however I know that from day one of training they are told that they are equivalent to MDAs. They are not.

They claim to provide 68% of anesthetics, they don't.

MDAs that I know who work with CRNAs have definite opinions about the level of skill and knowledge.
CRNAs don't understand medicine and physiology the way an MDA does.

I have had a few experiences where CRNAs have exhibited poor judgement with near tragic results.
( I have worked with CRNAs some.)

Clinton's mommy was a CRNA and I believe (actually I know) that after a completely stupid decision on her part she was told she would have to have all decisions cleared by the MDA she was working with on that day. She resisted and basically putthe MDAs in a position wher they could not trust her.

I believe that a pod who works in his office with a CRNA is stickinghis neck out.

Posted on Sep 25, 2002, 5:45 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.81

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Boy I sure am dumb

by 3rd year out (no login)

yea right, gpa 3.8, 96 ave board scores, tried for 3years to get one, now with 2 kids, wife, etc.. what now?

What happenened to all those great jobs, low hours, great pay, no beeper bull**** that I swallowed hook, line and sinker that the schools and the leadership of this stinking profession shoveled down our throats????

Run away from podiatry.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 10:54 AM
from IP address 64.45.238.153

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Where are you guys when I offer a job

by Paul (no login)

Where are you people when I offer a job? I have tried to get an associate/partner offered financing and do NOT require surgical training. No house calls/nursing homes just GOOD primary care! Nobody wants these jobs even though they pay better than surgery jobs. I have a $500k practice doing 90% primary care some small in office surgery (i.e exostosis, ingrowns etc.) I have had several come to the office and observe. Several times I have heard "I don't want to work that hard!!"

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 1:05 PM
from IP address 207.88.97.72

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Re: Where are you guys when I offer a job

by Anonymous (no login)

For the $30,000 that your offered, I wonder why the line was not out the door. That is good money in podiatry these days.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 4:03 PM
from IP address 67.25.10.23

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Re: Re: Where are you guys when I offer a job

by Paul (no login)

I never offerred any amount. Did you read my post? The right person can make $100k in my office.

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 11:19 AM
from IP address 207.88.97.152

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Re: Re: Re: Where are you guys when I offer a job

by Podman DPM (no login)

More podiary crap. The podiatry eats their young.

More promises that are empty. Let's make the junior hope for a great job.

Crap. Pure crap. That is what Podiatry was and is.

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 11:17 PM
from IP address 63.215.172.17

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Are you offering a job now????

by (no login)

Email me with more details, I'm very interested bec. primary care, orthotics and occasional LA & PNAs is all I do.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 4:48 PM
from IP address 199.212.26.244

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What is a PNA?

by Anonymous (no login)

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 9:28 PM
from IP address 24.92.208.146

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PNA

by Anomalous (no login)

Podiatric Nebbish Association.

Actually, it's a partial nail avulsion. It's when you get a local injection and part of your toenail is removed.

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 2:14 PM
from IP address 63.206.143.83

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Family Docs learn this

by Podman DPM (no login)

Heck, even the biggest Medicare procedure the family doctors will learn and the podiatrists will not see it.
There goes the big bucks.

Enjoy the title, "Doctor". Enjoy the white coat.
Enjoy the unemployment line except we are self-employed and we don't get that.

It is time to stop this joke that is called podiatry.

Posted on Sep 20, 2002, 11:21 PM
from IP address 63.215.172.17

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PNA answer.

by Mike (no login)

Partial nail avulsion procedure.

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 5:04 PM
from IP address 199.212.26.244

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PNA

by KU MED ms2 (no login)

A PNA is a Patial Nail Avulsion or "Phenol & Alcohol" procedure for removing a part or full nail...depending on the person using the term. Here at Univ. of Kansas, I've seen it done by a couple of family docs that I shadowed. I even did a couple myself under the doc's supervision. It was fun! Hope that helped...
KU med ms2

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 7:24 PM
from IP address 169.147.155.171

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Questions 4 u.

by anony (no login)

You are not dumb you are very smart and I wish I had marks as good as yours. You were fooled by the pod colleges, just like most of us who keep posting comments on this forum.

1. What is your current debt load due to pursuing a podiatric career?

2. Have you been able to find a DPM related position (eg. consultant, management, teaching or research)?

3. If you are working as a DPM, what is your current income level? Tell the truth, you're anonymous and people should know the truth about the podiatry profession.

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 2:37 PM
from IP address 199.212.26.244

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Answers

by 3rd year out (no login)

1. I owe about 138k.
2. I was let go as an associate, I was independant contracter. I was paid straight 32% of my income 1st year, 37% after that. I made my boss over 250k those 2 years clear. I got a bottle of wine as a X-mas bonus, **** his office girls got more than I did. The jerk said he didn't have enough work for both of us, of course he has a new associate now, number 6, I believe.
3. I have opened up in my home town and live with my mother and father... again, with my wife and 2 kids.

I am almost ready to pack it in and begin computer programming with my brother who owns his own company. He makes about 500k with 3 employees. He took a stinking 9 month computer course and now he's a king.

I spent 150k and live with my parents... ain't life grand?

Posted on Sep 18, 2002, 9:10 PM
from IP address 198.70.221.47

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PPMR trained

by Anon (no login)

For 150k, CRIPs should come to my door, bring some chocolate and beg me to join a top program.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 9:42 AM
from IP address 64.172.197.113

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Looking for DPM to work in sunny Florida!

by (no login)

I am currently seeking a DPM to join my company in Florida. I am offering a GREAT salary, paid health insurance/malpractice and a company car!! You MUST reside in the Daytona Beach area for this position. Please send CV to georgevarounis@mindspring.com

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 12:56 PM
from IP address 63.184.209.103

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Life after Podiatry

by (no login)

I entered this site while surfing through the term, Podiatry, just curious as to what has been written on the subject of late. I have taken time and read several of the posts here. The points and arguments presented are not much different than they have been over the last 10-15 years. I have some thoughts and wanted to share an opinion, similar in some respects, different in others.

I am a podiatrist, one who departed clinical practice 3 years ago. I completed a PSR-24, practiced privately, semi-successfully, attained board certification by ABPS and was later employed by a hospital as part of an orthopedic practice. (I actually had floated my resume to a recruiter and that was the only position he has ever come across since.) A total of 9 years practicing, not a bad gig really. I decided I had had enough when the hospital, losing money as managed care pervaded the market and combined with inexperience managing a group practice, could no longer sustain and retain us. Having no desire to re-enter private practice, fairly spoiled with such perks as; a 7% “yearly good boy bonus”, 7 % 401K additions yearly, 4 weeks vacation, and 2 weeks and $3,500 to spend on CME. This was in addition to, standard health care benefits, disability insurance, life insurance and malpractice coverage. Additionally, I was chair of physician recruiting and served as a member of the governing board of our medical group. In essence, I was one of the 3% or so podiatrists who got to see how it is be integrated and treated as an equal medical professional.

I learned a great deal as part of a system; medically, politically and personally. I was treated with the same respect as my M.D. colleagues, something I definitely could not say in private practice. I knew my limitations and did not attempt to go beyond, yet I was able to practice well, granted privileges consistent with my training and using my abilities to the fullest.

When our group was essentially dissolved piece by piece, I accepted a year’s severance and half my CME, as negotiated in good faith with the hospital. As it pertains, when recruiting physicians, I was both impressed and envious for Podiatry at what I could offer a perspective M.D. or D.O. candidate. I was also envious for Podiatry at the competition I faced negotiating against competing groups/hospitals for an allopathic or osteopathic applicant’s services. Sign on bonuses of 10-20K, significant CME allotments, moving expenses, 4 weeks vacation minimum, six-figure salaries, even special arrangements for loans for housing. The number of recruiters who would call me daily trying to place physicians was endless. There truly is no comparison on that level with podiatry. I can’t even talk about what it takes to arrive at a level playing field, because in this game, podiatry doesn’t even have a field. Unfortunately, insufficiently prepared, and taking responsibility for it, I never really knew such details when I decided to enter Podiatry. All I recall were the schools painting a very rosy picture. Only after residency did I realize and experience how much life was different with a D.P.M.

And so, after careful consideration, I was well aware my chances of entering a practice situation I had experienced were negligible. As a recruiter I did see salaries and perks plunging in all specialties, but at least as an M.D./D.O one can at least be recruited. Also, I did not like what I saw in clinical medicine and in the ranks of podiatry. Managed care reducing reimbursements, terrible infighting with the APMA and ACFAS (a randomly trained conservative guard vs. a more progressive, though still non-uniform aggressive guard). Lower insurance reimbursements than for M.D. and D.O. counterparts, strong opposition and competition from foot and ankle orthopedists. An increasingly poorer student selection pool, inconsistent training with half the profession surgically trained (and to wide varying degrees) and the other half happy to just call themselves doctor; and no support of either by the other.

During my time off I realized I was fairly burned out and explored other options available. Granted, I was in a position to do such, having no wife, children or debts.

And so what have I learned? What is the market like outside of podiatry? Is the degree worth anything? My experience has been mixed.

I learned my medical training (and yes, it was medical training in a real hospital with real rotations, despite the ignorance and misinformed attitudes of a few, young, God complexed, allopathic students) is on par with most of my M.D. counterparts, especially orthopedists. That said, I didn’t realize the depth and breath of my schooling until I became a resident, my medical and surgical acumen solidified when in a group practice and aligned with orthopedics. In many ways podiatry is more advanced in training, in many ways, it is unfinished. Summed-up, I never felt like I needed to prove anything and more importantly, was medically inferior in any way. Does it make a difference I completed a well-rounded PSR-24 with full hands-on rotations? Probably.

As far as the market outside of podiatry, success has come, but it is not easy by any means. There are virtually no arenas that recognize the D.P.M. degree, let alone know what it entails. Step back a minute too and realize, solely as a podiatrist, you are not equipped with even basic interviewing skills for the world outside of clinical medicine. A learning process.

The direction I chose was two fold at first. I learned how to interview and began meeting with larger pharmaceutical companies for positions in sales. I received the same message with each company, “decent candidate, no sales experience.” So, with determination, I obtained experience as an outside sales consultant for a medical placement agency, giving my resume credibility in the field. Additionally, I taught a few university courses in biology, anatomy and nutrition. (Mind you, I maneuvered into the university position because the interviewer was an interim chair for science and had only a month to find someone to replace a retired instructor. The chair knew only that I was a “doctor” and I admit I used and continue to use the word “podiatry” as little as possible in my resume, well aware of the unfamiliarity and futility of attempting to explain.) This is not to say I am not qualified to teach science courses, quite the opposite, but it is to reinforce that my D.P.M degree had little to do with securing the position. In essence, persistence and the right place, right time.

Subsequently, I entered the field of pharmaceutical / medical sales. Did my degree help? I can say, with honesty, no. Go on to any pharmaceutical or medical device web site and apply. You will notice when checking off level of education, the graduate degree choices are: Pharm-D, Ph.D., or M.D./ D.O. So as a podiatrist. one can’t really fill out the online application beyond using a bachelor’s degree.

I have been able to move up the ladder in the last 2 years. First in a temporary position and most recently contracted as a clinical sales consultant. I have enjoyed most of the benefits I had as a hospital employed podiatrist with much less stress and certainly less time put in. I also still teach a course here and there. My income last year was ¾ of what it was contracted to the hospital as a podiatrist, I’ll take it. I can say too, I am much happier in this life, not having to worry if my profession will be around in 5 to10 years or face prejudices so often seen in the medical and non-medical community. The leaders and members of the profession itself perpetrating and perpetuating universal ignorance with the mantra, “a podiatrist is a podiatrist.” We all know nothing could be farther from the truth, an absence of advanced and consistent training resulting in the “if you don’t know any better, you don’t know any better.”

For myself, there are no doubt, some frustrations in the “new world.” Avenues such as working as a clinical liaison in the pharmaceutical industry, while a great position in my eyes as one who enjoys teaching, are thus far unavailable to me. All such positions I have encountered require a Pharm-D, M.D. or D.O degree. I understand and accept it, but it doesn’t mean I have given up or in any way believe I am unqualified.

Even such jobs as clinical educator usually have a pre-requisite of an R.N.; DPM will not make the grade. I accept, that, although my background, schooling and experience make me equipped, perception is reality and a computer-scanned resume detects no R.N. in mine. In fact, the brief time I have been teaching on the college level gives me a better chance at such positions.

What about teaching in an allopathic or osteopathic medical school? Probably not an option, though I have yet to probe the possibilities. I do have a friend, a podiatrist, who also departed practice and is teaching cadaver anatomy in an allopathic medical school. Bear in mind, he had initially entered a Ph.D. program in anatomy and while choosing not to complete the program, had enough academic credit, support and experience to secure the position.

The reality is, sad as it may be; a degree in podiatry holds very little meaning or weight outside of podiatry. However, if you are determined enough and have a modicum of intelligence, you can parlay your experience and knowledge into other areas outside the shrinking box called podiatry.

Please understand, I believe a well-trained, (defining well-trained by today’s standards as 3 years in a versatile surgical residency program) foot and ankle surgeon, is incredibly valuable and needed in all medical practices. I prefer the term "foot and ankle surgeon" to Podiatry when discussing such advanced training, the way a maxillofacial surgeon is further advanced than a dentist. In Podiatry, however, it is a free for all with in-office O.R. suites, hungry hospital O.R.’s and profit driven surgi-centers making anyone a “surgeon.” Is there room for the “primary care” Podiatrist? Truly, no, it is work that a Podiatric assistant could easily do under the guidance of a foot and ankle surgeon, much as a P.A. works under a physician.

The problem in all of this is, in this medical climate: A 3-year trained foot and ankle surgeon has about as much real time value as an ice vendor in Alaska. In essence, what I am saying is: With the time and effort needed to put in, if you really enjoy foot and ankle pathology, until or if things change equality wise, you may be better off obtaining an M.D. or D.O. and apply for a high powered Podiatric residency.

Of course, that’s just my opinion.


Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 11:04 PM
from IP address 205.188.208.42

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Worthless and in decline.

by Anonymous (no login)

You have said so many things that have been said before.

1. The Podiatry Schools over sell podiatry.
2. The DPM is a worthless degree.
3. Fees are going down fast.
4. Will there be a viable podiatry field in 10 years?

5 Run, not walk, from podiatry.
6 The DPM is a worthless degree.

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 11:13 AM
from IP address 67.24.14.224

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Re: Life after Podiatry

by TJ (no login)

well written

Posted on Sep 17, 2002, 3:16 AM
from IP address 66.2.47.130

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Dr. Mohr

by Anomalous (no login)

Even though I'm a frequent critic of podiatry, I have to say that the pod who did Shaq's surgery is doing more for podiatry right now than the schools and the APMA combined. THIS is good publicity!

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 11:01 PM
from IP address 64.173.104.220

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From PM_News

by Anonymous (no login)

This is copied from PM-News. It's not what many of the people posting here believe.
It's out there, it's happening, you just don't see these busy people wasting there time posting on this forum.

I offered a 3 yr. residency trained new associate (in 1998) a $45,000
guarantee or 40% of what actual receipts - whichever was higher plus
benefits for either (health ins., $1500 for educational expenses and
two weeks vacation. He easily surpassed the guarantee and in his
third year earned about $150,000. He is very busy. I was concerned
about him earning his keep but my practice population jumped
immediately when he came aboard.

Please let me know what you find out.

Alan Kalker, DPM
Middleton, WI
ajkalker@facstaff.wisc.edu

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 5:58 AM
from IP address 63.50.65.106

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Wisconsin pod

by Anony (no login)

That's great. I'm a recent one-year trained nail clipper and I can't afford to be trained again for an additional two years. I'm looking for another line of work.

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 9:20 AM
from IP address 64.173.104.220

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Highly trained 3 year Resident

by Anonymous (no login)

I know that only in the Hospital do I think that I am important. In reality when I start to practice, my practice will consist on crawling on the floor of a nursing home and cutting those toe nails. What a waste of 3 years of my life.

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 9:18 PM
from IP address 67.249.81.79

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3 year resident, WAKE UP!

by Anonymous (no login)

I cant believe what I just read. A highly trained doc presumes he will not make it and that he will just be clipping toenails at a nursing home. WRONG! There are several hospitals and area docs you can reveal your training to to get in to the good circle. You need to market your training and not settle for clipping nails. You were one of the lucky ones who got a PSR-36 and not you are going to stoop to that level of a nail clipper, what a shame and what a disgrace to yourdself and podatric medicine. The sad thing I guess is that you have the oppurtunity to make some money and a difference you just arent going to though because if your state of mind. You better check yourself before going out into the real world of medicine. It is the survival of the fittest and you seem to be trained to be pretty fit, so pull your head out of it and do something with your degree, your training, and your life.

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 10:26 AM
from IP address 65.100.215.207

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Oh, now I feel better

by Anonymous (no login)

I, a 3rd year trained resident know that I was wrong in saying that I will cut toenails. I now know that I will also trim the callouses and corns.

I was very shortsighted and I am so glad that you raised my expectations.

Thank you, Sir.

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 11:41 PM
from IP address 67.24.14.178

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DPM comparisons to DDS

by Anonymous (no login)

DDS can go on and get further training in several areas including oral surgery.

I've noticed that oral surgeons don't call themselves dentists, it's almost an insult.

Podiatrists with surgical training are podiatric surgeons but we are all podiatrists. Given the last example, why not have podiatrists vs podiatric surgeons as in the dental profession.

Posted on Sep 10, 2002, 10:01 PM
from IP address 207.166.216.215

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Re: DPM comparisons to DDS

by Greg DPM (no login)

I am a DPM, but I insist that everybody call
me Dr. Xxxxxxx, including my wife and son.
My wife must call me, Dr. Xxxxxx, and my
son must call me Dr Dad.

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 12:38 AM
from IP address 67.25.9.60

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Re: DPM comparisons to DDS

by why compare? (no login)

why do it?b

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 12:24 AM
from IP address 66.2.47.156

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Forefoot vs Rearfoot/ankle surgeon: why This distinction?

by Anonymous (no login)

The divisions of being board certified in podiatric surgery seems nonsensicle to me. Speak up if you feel the same.

Why was the distinction made between fore/rearfoot and not others.
For example, why not have podiatric medial vs lateral column surgeons?
Why not have soft tissue vs bone podiatric surgeons?
How about podiatric phalangeal vs metatarsal surgeon?
Midfoot surgeons who do charcot reconstructions?
Trauma vs elective podiatric surgeon?

This could go on and on to infinity. Where is the logic?
I propose "board certified in podiatric surgery" period, to encompass the foot and ankle.

Posted on Sep 10, 2002, 9:57 PM
from IP address 207.166.216.215

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Re: Forefoot vs Rearfoot/ankle surgeon: why This distinction?

by Anonymous (no login)

Why stupid distictions? Because Podiatry
is a f**ked up profession. Have not
noticed yet?

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 12:51 AM
from IP address 67.25.9.60

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Multiple designations

by Anomalous (no login)

It's just more silliness in the world of podiatry.

There should be two boards. One certifies Podiatric Primary Care and the other, surgery.

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 9:22 AM
from IP address 64.173.104.220

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Because

by Anonymous (no login)

I agree you are either a foot and ankle surgeon or you or not. Those who were unfortunate not to have received training to handle the entire foot and ankle should not be boarded. The separation occurred because many could not obtain enough rearfoot/ankle cases to sit for the boards. So when they complained and called those who did have the training elitists the trained of our profession caved and created the foot vs foot/ankle boards. It was to help those with less training.
Then the less trained couldn't pass the test or still could not get enough cases so then the boards were unfair.
Bottomline, the whiners and untrained are the ones who are killing the profession. They fail and it's everyones fault but their own. Then 10 or less dominate this site and tell everyone how bad we are. They never offer solutions, do not belong to any organizations( they all have rationalizations for this as well), never accept any responsibilty for their failure, and want parity with those who did receive the training.
I used to feel for the less fortunate of the profession. However this is becoming harder and harder to do. The trained ethical DPM kicked down all of the doors so the untrained could follow. Now that they are beside us they want us gone so we do not embarass them. They claim they are the same as the trained. A DPM is a DPM is their statement to hospital, patients, and MDs. They want to dumb down the profession with standard residencies that do not offer full scope surgical training. They want to confuse the public with a podiatry certification, so a patient becomes even more confused as to who they should see for a specific problem. Like it or not it is you who are killing the profession. If the profession is inherently the problem, no one would make it. It isn't the profession who has failed it is you! That's the truth, like it or not. Respond anyway you want.
My opinion

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 11:19 AM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Re: Because

by Anonymous (no login)

Use your name and location next time.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 10:24 AM
from IP address 67.25.10.145

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true

by anonDPM (no login)

another good argument for the phasing out of the DPM degree

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 8:00 AM
from IP address 65.238.96.204

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Trip to my pods office...

by Justin (no login)

I just dont get it. I took a trip to my pods office today which is one huge building (probably 5200 sq. ft.) and it is just him and a plastic surgeon. I was looking at his appts. for the day on the receptionist's desk and all I saw was, post-op ankle, post-op bunion, post-op calcaneus, sprain, nail pain, and a bunch of other seemingly more difficult procedures. There was even a couple of consults for triples and one post-op for the same. He had a completely full day. I got a cortisone injection in my ankle (an old injury)he also came into my exam room to get the cast saw to take a cast off, he said the person fractured their ankle and broke their calcaneus in a automobile accident. He trained at Kaiser for 3 years and went to CCPM. He also got a rearfoot fellowship for 6 mo. with an orthopod group in San Diego at a trauma center.

He relayed to me that 3 of the major areas have been calling him alot once they learned of his training. He joked that he hasnt slept in a week. Big Ego? Dont think so. He isnt one of those kinda of docs. I was his last patient for the day he had told me and he was on his way over to the hospital(s) to do check & chat -as he put it - on some surgery patients that had to be hospitalized. What podiatry procedure requires hospitalization? This guy seemd to be doing very very well, I just dont understand why any DPM cant make money. I see a practice like this one and my head spins. Any thoughts or ideas anyone?

Posted on Sep 10, 2002, 9:11 PM
from IP address 65.100.215.207

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Re: Trip to my pods office...

by Anonymous (no login)

Yes, My office is bigger than his office.
I have 6010 sq feet and I saw 87 patients
today. I see more cases than he sees.
I make more money than he does.

I have no time to eat so I eat between
seeing my patients. I have a driver
so that I can dictate my charts to and from the
drive to the office.

I will take on an associate as soon as I find
one to my liking.

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 12:41 AM
from IP address 67.25.9.60

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Yeah Right...

by Anonymous (no login)

For some reason I dont believe you. Why dont you authenticate yourself? What are you making a year? How long was your residency? A driver? (you mean the bus driver)87 patients? yeah right. lets hear some more about yourself, if its true, CONGRATS!

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 9:42 PM
from IP address 65.100.215.207

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Re: Yeah Right...

by Anonymous (no login)

It is true. But today i only have 64 patients scheduled. Why don't you believe me?
Want me to send my Income Taxes to you?

If the average podiatrist can see 40-50
patients per day, why id 64 unbelievable?
I have my girl do my History. Another does
vital signs and C and C. I come in to inspect.
I dictate my report into a tape. Then the girl
does her documentation. I see a patient every 5 minutes, but the girls spend more time with every patient. At least 8 minutes.

We see over 97 new patients per month.

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 12:10 PM
from IP address 67.25.10.104

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Send them on over...

by Anonymous (no login)

Could you please? I dont care about ow much patients you are seeing, I want yo know WHERE YOU WERE TRAINED, HOW LONG WAS YOUR RESIDENCY, WHAT WAS YOUR INCOME LAST YEAR, WHAT ARE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR CASES??? This post is almost exactly like the last one you did. You gave me no more information than previously. UHHH! HURRY AND THINK OF SOMETHING!

Lets hear all the real info.

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 7:14 PM
from IP address 65.100.215.207

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Re: Send them on over...

by Anonymous (no login)

You are asking me very personal questions. Why don't you ask me about my love life? I am not proud of my having relations once a month. Got any suggestions on what I can do? Does knowing what school, residency, the number of years, etc really matter?

While I make much money in podiatry, I hate it and my life.

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 2:18 AM
from IP address 63.215.172.11

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whoaaa!

by Anonymous (no login)

When you make claims that state you are this wealthy podiatrist with this amazing practice it definately matters where you did residency and schooling. That is not a question of a personal nature that you refer it to. My thought is that you'd be proud of where you trained at and where you went to school because you are on of the lucky ones who made it (apparently) My second thought for you is that you didnt train 3 years and you dont have a practice of the nature you previously stated. Oh! and about your love life? Your 30-day trial to internet sites doesnt count as a relationiship, get a life.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 12:14 PM
from IP address 12.72.226.177

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It is true.

by Podman, DPM (no login)

Some practices are very good. Nobody knows about them as they keep silent. They dont want somebody opening up next door and earning $256,000 the first year.

Some work. Some moan and groan and bitch and complain that the life, APMA, Residencies, colleges are not fair. Some of us work hard and pack in our patients 10 in the hour. 4 minutes is enought with a patient.

Posted on Sep 16, 2002, 4:07 PM
from IP address 67.25.10.23

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Kaiser trained doc

by Anomalous (no login)

Yeah. I'll give you my thoughts.

If this guy was trained at a Kaiser, he's one of a handful who qualify each year to get these sweet residencies. Of course he's at the top. But he in NO WAY represents the bulk of DPM's who are slogging away each day doing the most menial and undignifying tasks just to stay above water.

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 9:25 AM
from IP address 64.173.104.220

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Schnide Curiosity

by Marco (no login)

Has there been a study linking lung CA to nail debridement? How many of you wear masks? How many of you have a well ventilated office? Very curious, Marco Esquandolas

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 10:21 PM
from IP address 65.59.43.237

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Degree fighting

by Jeffrey C. Davids, DPM (no login)

Ok...enough. I don't know why we are all so hell bent on fighting each other over the degree we hold.

I have a DPM degree. I'm not a MD or DO. I think I could whip any MD or DO in diagnosis and treatment of foot disorders, even a so-called "foot and ankle orthopod." (I worked with orthopods in my residency - they didn't know squat about foot surgery, and you ain't going to learn it all in a 6 month fellowship, either).

Now, on to the OD issue. My take is that I would see a DPM for a foot problem because they focused on it from day one. They are the best at it (with some exceptions, as in any profession). Same with the OD and eye problems. If I need eye surgery, I would have to go to the MD, but for general eye issues, I think an OD would outdo the MD anyday, be it glasses or other eye problems.

Of course, serious eye problems require a trip to the ER, where you are not likely to see an OD. Same goes for serious foot/ankle trauma, however. Most ER's do not have a DPM to see those cases.

Basically, I'm saying we should stop fighting each other. We perform completely different things. The eye and the foot are pretty damn far away from each other. I don't claim to know the OD training, but I assume it's quite adequate in teaching "eye stuff." I assume they know a heck of a lot more about eyes than I do, or ever will.

Oh...and the nurses...another fight going on. I don't know their training either, but I know I'm damn glad they are there.

PA's - again, I don't know anything about them. I gather most of them do a pretty good job.

Let's all start being a bit more professional and stop these pissing matches.

Jeff

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 10:58 AM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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Practice for sale in Montana

by Marc Wright, DPM (no login)

I am going to close my practice in three weeks: my last day will be
September 27, 2002. This is a full-scope established practice in an
area of 60,000 to 90,000 general population. After I leave, there
will be only two podiatrists in the area. I will help finance a well-
trained podiatrist. This is an incredible opportunity. If no one
wants to buy the practice, I will sell the equipment, furniture and
supplies at discount prices. Peter A. Freund, DPM [406] 443-3100
Helena, MT e-mail PETEFOOT@aol.com



Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 1:00 PM
from IP address 63.203.103.1

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Career Changer

by Anonymous (no login)

I was flipping through old posts and found this one, I think that is was you! (Considering that you are the only one at this forum who posts about ODs, given the exception of a few) Take a look...

DPM or OD?
by AG (no login)

Which degree would be better to pursuit, a DPM or OD?
How do the professions of podiatry and optometry compare in job placement, income, status, and lifestyle?
I know that new Podiatrists are facing many challenges from job offers to college loans. Do Optometrists face similar problems as well?

Thanks

Is this you? I think it is!!! Are you AG or not? And I had to tell you one thing that is of a good nature. I think that if I met a girl that was going to be a OD I would be very impressed, VERY! So it is commendable. Not saying that girls are anyless capable but the ones I tend to meet are going to hair school or something like that. Keep it up.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 12:43 PM
from IP address 65.100.215.207

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no, I am not AG

by Career Changer (no login)

Sorry, but I am not AG.

I am drawn to the OD profession because I am not interested in surgery; I am interested in optics and primary care. So far, optometry has the best chances of allowing me to integrate both of these interests.

But thanks for the compliment.

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 2:58 PM
from IP address 64.12.96.200

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DPMs scope

by Justin (no login)

Can a DPM deliver drugs IV wise? I know that an oral surgeon can deliver antibiotics, pain meds, steroids, 'sleepy drugs', ect. Can a pod do the same or what is the laws or scope of practice regarding this.
Thanks

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 12:38 PM
from IP address 65.100.215.207

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sleepy drugs

by cma (no login)

Be careful.

Sleepy drugs can be respiratory arrest drugs.
I frequently see patients stop breathing and become obtunded with a small amount of versed. These patients are generally old. But, younger patients who are opiate naive may very well have an exxagerated response.

If you want to give IV drugs, then you better be able to intubate, ventilate, and resuscitate.

Podiatrists are prohibited from administering general anesthesia. The same drugs you may want to give for sedation may very well comprise a general anesthetic in correct doses. For instance, a general for a heart bypass may consist of 60mg Morphine and 40mg Versed.

If you gave 2mg of Versed IV. and your patient arrested and became hypoxic and suffered an injury, then I believe you would be deep poopoo. I would testify that your use of versed constituted a general anesthetic.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 3:46 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.80

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Re: DPMs scope

by Marco (no login)

Justin, please do your homework. DPM's can definitely write for IV antibiotics. For instance, a pt with osteo does not want to stay in the hospital, nor do you want them to if the infxn can be resolved with IV treatment. Also, consider the DRG factor. You might have to look that one up.

Posted on Sep 7, 2002, 9:32 PM
from IP address 65.59.43.237

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DPM snubbed by OD: need good comebacks

by Anonymous (no login)

In the area where I'm from, there are no podiatry schools and the public is generally unaware of our scope and training.

I recently was at a social function (wedding) and ran into this guy who was an OD. THere is an OD school in the area and the public perception of ODs is fairly good and in fact it is quite difficult to get into the local school.

After telling this guy that I was in pod school he nearly died laughing. He had no idea about what it actually takes to become a DPM and snubbed me really badly. People at his table had overheard his comments and were chuckling.

Feeling intimidated, I tucked my tail between my legs and slipped away because I was not expecting that response.

In a similar event, I caught up with a guy who had gone to high school with me and we got to chatting about what we were doing now. He is a D.C. and when I told him I was in DPM school, he turned to me and said "that's ok, nothing wrong with that", in a tone resembling pitty. Again I was at a loss for words.

Could someone forward good quick comebacks so that I can save face and walk away without feeling inferior.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 12:25 PM
from IP address 192.35.79.70

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Snubbed

by DPM (no login)

I hope you are joking.

1. Ask them how long their residency was
2. Ask them if they can admit or co-admit patients to the hospital (or if they can get on hospital staff for that matter)
3. Ask them if they get hospital consults
4. Ask them if they can prescribe narcotics for their patients pain or IV antibiotics for infection
5. Ask them if they have operating privelleges at hospitals or surgical centers
6. Ask them if they can fill out handicaped parking applications for patients
7. Or just be confident that you are a real doctor, and try not to have a chip on your shoulder or inferiority complex and say nothing at all.

This profession has many problems but our overall medical knowledge is far superior to OD/DC (I know people in both professions) and I would say we are more mainsteram. Unfortuantely ease of admission to our schools is at an all time high, and young doctors are often not compensated comensurate with their training. The general public is also grossly unaware of our training and often thinks of us as toenail doctors.




Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 12:50 PM
from IP address 216.61.131.181

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Snappy comebacks

by Anomalous (no login)

First, get used to it. I'm frankly sick of defending myself so I don't anymore. I started out by saying, "I'm in medical school". Most people didn't buy it when they learned it was podiatry school. After my second year or so I started saying "podiatric medical school", but got the same response. Now, I just say "podiatry school" and put up with the suspicion, pity, derisive comments, quizzical looks and ignorance, which, ironically enough, often works in your favor since they sometimes think you're an MD who chose to cut nails for a living.

Second, it will be an endless pissing match when you start comparing yourself to other physicians and assorted health care providers. OD's do not have the same training that DPM's have. Not even close. OD's cannot prescribe anything and cannot do surgery. DPM's do both. OD's cannot admit patients into a hospital. DPM's can with another physician.

If this bothers you, you'd better get good handle on what it is you're training to be. Your not going to be equivalent to an MD or DO. You're not going to be equivalent to a PA, NP or OD. You're going to be a podiatrist, nothing less, nothing more. Be proud of your niche and laugh off the criticism.

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 1:12 PM
from IP address 63.203.103.1

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doc title

by pod (no login)

My fiance and I have a running joke where she says that I'm not a "real doctor". I actually think it is kind of funny especially when you consider the fact that I can go into the OR and perform real surgery.

Moral: You will work with feet and will need a sense of humor if you are going to be in this business. If your ego is small and you need a title then maybe shoot for something else.

Podiatry is what I do. It is not what I am.

Posted on Sep 8, 2002, 10:36 PM
from IP address 206.107.27.91

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Re: DPM snubbed by OD: need good comebacks

by Anonymous (no login)

Feeling inferior is exactly that- you feeling inferior.
You are attending a four year post-graduate school followed by 1-3 years of hospital based residency training. Following that you are going to be doing foot surgery, admitting patients to the hospital, seeing patients in the ER, prescribing medication all to treat pathology of the foot, ankle, and leg depending on what state you practice in. Doesn't that say enough!

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 1:21 PM
from IP address 64.196.60.27

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Don't worry, we aren't all like that.

by ODtobe (no login)

I'm sorry that this OD mistreated you. I feel it reflects badly on the health care profession when people play "i'm better than you games". No one should make fun of another's career path. I myself know that DPM's undergo four years of podiatric education and then go into residencies. I know that trainign in a medical model is hard. I am sorry that someone who is ignorant has treated you badly. They just don't know any better.


Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 2:32 PM
from IP address 24.164.252.125

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Be Proud

by Anonymous (no login)

Be proud of your profession. Hold your head high and strut to your Yugo. Drive home to the low income track apartments and try to pay your student loans.

After all, you are a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine and 80% of your day will be spent grinding down mycotic nails to the point that there is more debris from them then from the World Trade Towers.

Posted on Sep 9, 2002, 3:23 PM
from IP address 67.24.15.240

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Podiatry Be Proud-Stand-Up

by Mark Boyer (no login)

Podiatry Be Proud

Be proud of the enormous student loans without repayment.

Be proud of the low admission standards.

Be proud of the CCPM school combining with an allied health school.

Be proud MCATs are not required anymore.

Be proud of computers and other incentives to drum-up any and all applicants to apply to the anemic podiatry "schools".

Be proud of sitting in class into your third year to hear lectures about clipping, skiving, and didactics about what an SMA7 stands for.

Be proud while the MD/DOs are intensively learning and DOING medicine, your sitting in an plastic seat memorizing the diff. between a corn v. callous-this is definitely cerebral folks.

Be proud of "clinic" training mainly consisting of cutting indigent toenails and lathering feet with emollients. SOunds like a beauty shop.

Be proud of the spotty and inconsistent residency "training" at community hospitals with the podiatry "resident" helping a plastic surgeon perform breast reductions. (holding retractors of course)

Be proud of the lack of real research in podiatry or publications in real journals. (JAPMA, JFAS don't count, anything gets accepted.)

Be proud of the embarrassingly low pay under 70K after residency.

Be proud of the do nothing podiatry orgs that constantly beg for $$$.

Be proud of the easy as a cosmo survey "boards" that cost approx. $500.00 for less than an 1hr "test."

Be proud of Brian Gale.

Be proud of the useless APMA and their political do nothing agendas for thousands a year in dues.

Be proud of all 50 different scope laws in the states.

Be proud of the lack of credibility your "degree" has.

Be proud of crawling on the floor in a lab coat as a pedicurist amongst feces/urine at a nursing home.

Podiatry be Proud.


Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 12:29 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.134

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Student Loan Crisis

by Student Loan Crisis (no login)

The Student Loan Crisis exists when you can not get a good job after the Residency. One is finished.
Go into default and you can not get medicare money.

The Student Loan Crisis. The best way to end your podiatry career.

The Student Loan Crisis. The Student Loan Crisis.

Posted on Sep 12, 2002, 11:44 PM
from IP address 67.24.14.178

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So proud

by Anomalous (no login)

I'm so proud of podiatry that I now cringe slightly when I tell someone what I do.

I'm so proud when my best friend (in jest) says, "so that's what you're calling yourself these days, huh?" when I answer the phone with Dr. ####.

I'm so proud that I have only one drug rep who calls on me out of ignorance despite the fact that I've been in the same place for more than 3 years.

I'm so proud that the foreign medical schools will not honor any of my podiatry classes.

I'm so proud that, despite my excellent grades and social skills, I ended up matching with a worthless PPMR, making it nearly impossible to earn a living.

I'm so proud of a profession that mostly cuts toenails and calluses for "patients".

I'm so proud to have wasted untold hours in school listening to the bogus crap theories about orthotic control.

I'm also proud of the untold hours I wasted in school learning about surgery and surgical principles not knowing that I may never get a chance to do any of it.

I'm so proud of the BS externships that I paid for, receiving little and sometimes nothing in return.

I'm exceptionally proud, too, of the innumerable hours I spent absorbing plastic molecules through my kiester in my 3rd year, listening again and again to endless lectures on pointless things.

I'm proud of the fact that, as a student, I did not see a single patient in a hospital (save the approximately 6 times I rounded with a real doctor and observed him speaking with them for about 2 minutes).

I'm truly proud of the several instructors who asked time and again "do you guys need to know this?"

I'm proud of the fact that since I had absolutely no hospital experience before I started my PPMR, I knew nothing about hospitals when confronted with truly sick people.

I'm proud of the failure of established pods to give back to the students, schools and profession

I'm proud of the first job I was offered straight out of residency, which boiled down to fraud (I passed).

I'm also proud of the Mickey Mouse journals in podiatry

But, what makes me most proud of podiatry is, since the future is so bleak and my income so unstable, I have to find a different career.

Thanks podiatry

Posted on Sep 13, 2002, 5:51 PM
from IP address 64.161.169.27

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Re: So proud

by Anonymous (no login)

I've got another one for you to add
"I'm proud that I don't take responsibility for anything that happens to me or doesn't happen to me"
It's not podiatry that's did this to you!

Posted on Sep 14, 2002, 9:55 AM
from IP address 24.92.208.146

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So very proud

by Anomalous (no login)

Unfortunately, anonymous, every item that I listed is podiatry's fault. But, just to appease you, I'll tell you what I am responsible for.

I take full, unfettered responsibility for the idiotic, short-sighted decision I made to accept admission to CCPM. I failed to do adequate research and did not speak to enough podiatrists. I failed to take action during the beginning of my first year when I knew that I was definitely not in medical school.

That's it. The rest is podiatry's fault. I did my part. I paid my money. I got my grades and showed up at nearly every stinking lecture, absolutely every stinking clinic and did yeoman's work during my "residency".

What it comes down to is the degree is worth about 1/4 of what you pay. The rest is so you get to be called doctor the rest of your life.

And, as I do take ultimate responsibility for my whack decision, I am doing every thing I can to change careers so I can earn a decent living, pay off my loans, hang my head high and regain the dignity and respect that podiatry has gradually eroded away.

Posted on Sep 15, 2002, 2:11 PM
from IP address 64.172.197.113

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Response to snubbing

by (no login)

Dear Anonymous,
as a fellow Podiatrist from Australia, I would say that maybe your DELIVERY to your chosen professiion maybe the problem. I am proud of my chosen career and am very good at it. I do and advise you to hold your head up high, look them straight in the eyes and with a confident positive air reply to them and say: "you are a Podiatrist and loving it".
Do not let the insecurity of others belittle your professional training,expertice,and much appreciated skills. I bet your patients don't come out with dumb coments like the ones you have posted. Your patients are your greatest critics, not the ingoramices around you.
Good Luck

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 8:13 AM
from IP address 210.50.228.4

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Snubbed response

by (no login)

Absolutely well replied. I would like to hear their responses to your questions, and to see their blushed and embaressed faces.
And maybe our college may finish off with "that's OK to be a DC or OD etc.

Regards from Australia

Nick

Posted on Sep 11, 2002, 8:21 AM
from IP address 210.50.228.4

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Midwestern University New Podiatry Program: What are the details?

by Anonymous (no login)

MWU to Launch School of Podiatric Medicine
MWU has announced plans to begin development of a school of podiatric medicine. This four-year doctoral program will be the first of its kind in the state of Arizona and the only program in the Southwest.

"Midwestern University is pleased to bring a program in podiatric medicine to the state of Arizona and make it an integral member of our campus community of health professionals, commented Dr. Goeppinger. "We have received tremendous support from podiatric physicians in the Vally and the state, and we intend to develop one of the strongest academic programs in the profession."

Doctors of Podiatric Medicine (PDMs) are physicians and surgeons who practics on the lower extremities, primarily on feet and ankles. The active lifestyles of Arizonans and the aging population of the state contribute to the need for more podiatric physicians.

Contact: Karen Johnson (623.572.3291)

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 8:20 AM
from IP address 192.35.79.70

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good sign

by Anonymous (no login)

The more the better. That's what the DO's have done over the last 20 years which have allowed them to become mainstream equal to MD's in the eyes of the public and KNOWLEDGABLE healthcare providers. I'm just saying more numbers equal more "jobs" for young practioners and more public awareness of our services. If you notice most of the new DO schools are in rural underserved areas, areas where there is a need. This is what podiatry should do-in my opinion the more the better!

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 10:00 AM
from IP address 24.92.208.146

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More numbers equals more jobs??

by Anon (no login)

No offense, anonymous, but this is specious reasoning.

How do you figure that by increasing the number of podiatrists in the U.S. this will increase the number of jobs? That's like saying that if I increase the number of checks in my checkbook, I'll have more money.

DO's did fill a need. This new school is not training new DPM's to fill any specific need. What info is there that there is a need for new podiatrists? There might be a need on the Indian reservations or in the inner cities, but how many pods do you imagine will want to relocate to these areas for a meager stipend?

Posted on Sep 6, 2002, 1:16 PM
from IP address 63.203.103.1

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Re: More numbers equals more jobs??

by Anonymous (no login)

More DPM's that are infiltrated into the healthcare system equals in the long run more referals from MD's and more public awareness of our scope of practice. As more patients choose podiatry the more work there is the more jobs there are. I don't know the exact numbers -