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Another CCPM moment

by Anomalous (no login)

I'm currently in the midst of doing my secondary applications for DO and MD school and several of them want 2 basic science letters of rec. No problem, I thought. Most, if not all, of my basic science profs at CCPM liked me and would likely remember me (I am kind of unforgettable). And, there were at least 10 or 15 who I had encounters with.

Well, much to my non-surprise, when I checked out who was left at the web site, I discovered there was but ONE professor who has not jumped ship! Great! There is no way I can compensate for this so I'm going to have to see if I can be exempt



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.234 on Aug 19, 2002 10:06 PM

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 4:24 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.114

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Sorry Dr. Szabo

by Don Wilkerson (no login)

I posted a message on this forum intended for a few people with the sole intent of being funny about a certain residency program. I apologize if this offended anybody. It was only meant in jest, I do not want anyone to take it seriously.

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 3:34 PM
from IP address 216.151.105.8

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Job offer

by Marc Wright, DPM (no login)

Associate Wanted

Busy St. Augustine,. FL practice needs surgically trained
associate. Fax CV to
904-387-4653 or E-mail to AMEP55@aol.com



Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 1:13 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.114

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Mcglamry's volume 2 or 3: what's the difference?

by Anonymous (no login)

I'm looking into purchasing a copy of Mcglamry's but don't know if it is worth paying so much more for volume 3. How different is it from volume 2?

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 11:48 AM
from IP address 192.35.79.70

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Re: Mcglamry's volume 2 or 3: what's the difference?

by Anonymous (no login)

I have never seen a Volume 3 of McGlamry's.

My Third Edition has only 2 Volumes.

Go with the newer edition rather than trying to save a couple dollars.

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 5:28 PM
from IP address 166.90.31.18

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Correction: editions 2 vs. 3

by Anonymous (no login)

Sorry,
both have two volumes. I meant editions two vs three.

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 10:27 PM
from IP address 207.166.216.234

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Will NY Alumni Offer Cars?

by R. Wilner, DPM (no login)

I got an interesting Email today form an Alum of the New York College of Podiatric Medicine. He referred to the offering of the School or the Alumni Group
of a Laptop Computer to a Podiatrist for every Applicant who become a Student there.

He was wondering when they would offer cars for students. Think that would happen?

Looking at the gross economics of it, a student paying 20,000 a year means that he is worth
80,000+ in the 4 years. He then goes on to become a member of the APMA for 1500 per year. He also has to do expensive CMEs, etc.

That adds up. And every seat that is not filled in Sept goes unfilled for 4 years.

So, for $2,000 or the price of a Laptop computer, they can get a return of 80,000. Good deal.

But, offering a car worth $20,000 for a student who pays 80,000 is a great deal also. Even offering a Lexis or SUV at $40,000 gives you a ROI of 2. Not bad. We wll would take a ROI of 2 in this era of returns of 3 percent.

Well, I am waiting for next year to see if they
give away cars, campers, or even starter homes. LOL

Posted on Aug 18, 2002, 2:38 AM
from IP address 67.24.12.31

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HA HA HA!

by Justin (no login)

you cant even spell! you must have gone to great schools.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 1:35 PM
from IP address 12.72.136.100

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Justin

by Anomalous (no login)

It's spelled "can't" and it's generally overlooked when people misspell words on e-mails and forums.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 7:11 PM
from IP address 64.173.104.230

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You are right.

by R Wilner, DPM (no login)

Justin,

You are right. I can not spell. And I dont take the time to use spell check. That is why I have a secretary and I use a formal dictation service.

Forum responses come directly from my fingers.

Have a good laugh at my expense. But, can you debate any issues that I present? ANY issues?

Rich

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 7:43 PM
from IP address 67.25.11.101

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I will...

by Justin (no login)

The only laugh I have is at you crying about how you are a failure and how terrible your profession is. You make me want to become an ortho just so I can slap you around and we both know if it were the case you'd be black and blue all over.

Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 9:31 PM
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History of Foot Torture

by Anonymous (no login)

The History of Foot Torture
Cameron Kippen, Curtin University of Technology, Perth WA
In earlier times the desire to quell free thought and the need to elicit perceived truth were indistinguishable and achieved, in the main, through the medium of torture. Throughout history the black art of inflicting pain has been ever present but perhaps had its heyday in the Middle Ages. By the sixteenth century it was plain persuasion by means of pressing usually ended in death. Whilst this solved one problem by removing the deviant, it was less satisfactory in court cases where confessions and names of accomplices were required. Feet provided a most acceptable alternative i. e. being easy to inflict excruciating pain with the added advantage of not causing death. Torture of the foot became well established in civilised societies and continues to exist to this day. The author attempts to describe, from available literature, the history of foot torture. The use of torture techniques to obtain information is now against civilised culture and a group called Amnesty International works to obliterate it throughout the world. To find out more please visit Amnesty International (USA)

Judicial Torture The Inquistion
Star Chamber Peine Forte et Dure
Chinese Torture Falanga & Bastinado
The Boot Caspicaws
Piquet Water Torture
Kittee Toe Cutting
Shooting the foot Oregon Boot
Algophilia Toe Nail Tearing
Bibliography Acknowledgement


GLOSSARY OF TERMS
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The History of Foot Torture

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Judicial Torture
According to Scott (1995) torture may be described as a form of cruelty or method of tormenting. The concept of torture is based on two fundamental things, human beings capacity to imagine as well as their susceptibility to pain. The skills of the tormentor required to be highly developed as the turn of a screw could have dire consequence. When sanctioned by the State, it was executed by duly accredited or appointed officials, through judicial authorities. Torture and punishment were the primitive law that provided a means for forcing the individuals to act contrary to their wishes whilst compelling them to accept dictatorial jurisdiction. Repression and prevention of all attempts to rebel against that authority or the tenets of its creed was the sole focus of this form of persecution. Torture provided the most powerful instrument available and was subsequently used by the the State to wage war against treason; and the Church, in preventing of heresy. Pain was often so extreme the victim was impelled to confess anything, which his interrogators might wish. The provisions of the Magna Carta represented torture as abhorrent to the principle of English freedom but the Anglo Saxons were a callous and cruel race and whilst torture was never recognised by the common law of England, it was practised with the full authority of the reigning monarchs for 400 years. Torture was used to extract confessions and to obtain evidence but the activities were disguised, euphemised or justified under the name of punishment or as a discipline. It may be the principle of public exhibitions involving torture and cruelty may have been an attempt to lessen the incidence of lust, murders and lynching. However judges and executioners of the Middle Ages were compelled to be continually invent new and more severe forms of torture. The brutal form of punishment practised in one decade became a commonplace method in the next. Recorded history indicates witches were persecuted from the time of Noah but it was not until the end of the fifteenth century when Pope Innocent VIII issued a bull, which specifically called the faithful to exterminate sorcerers and witches as enemies of the Christian religion. Many brave people tried to put and end to the painful persecution but it took till the nineteenth century to become outlawed. The English renounced judicial torture in 1640 and it was abolished in Scotland in 1708. Frederick the Great abolished torture in Prussia. (1740), the Duch in 1771. The Italians abolished torture in 1786, the French 1789. In Russia it came to an end 1801, Spain 1812, Germany 1831; and Japan in 1873. Torture continues to be used in many countries around the world, despite official denials.


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The Inquisition
In 1231 Pope Gregory IX instituted the papal inquisition for the apprehension and trial of heretics. Later the remit included witches, diviners, blasphemers, and other sacrilegious persons. The Pope's original intent for the Inquisition was a court of exception to inquire into and glean the beliefs of those differing from Catholic teaching, and to instruct them in the orthodox doctrine. It was hoped that heretics would see the falsity of their opinion and would return to the Roman Catholic Church. In the event of persistence then to protect the Catholic community from infestation on non believers suspects were handed to civil authorities for punishment. Unfortunately the tribunals were almost entirely free from any authority, including that of the Pope hence it was impossible to eradicate abuse. In 1478, Pope Sixtus IV (1471-84) issued a papal bull allowing a second variety of the Inquisition, known as the Spanish Inquisition. This was at the specific request of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, of Spain. The regents wanted to unite their countrymen and chose Catholicism. The function of the Spanish Inquisition was to root out non-believers thus purifying the people of Spain. The Inquisitions were administered by both civil and church authorities which gave the Inquisition ultimate power. Run by secular governments much of their activities concerned the legitimacy of "conversos". Most were Jews who had converted either under duress or out of social convenience, and were suspected of secretly practising the Jewish faith. Throughout the 15th & 16th centuries the Spanish Inquisition brought about "a reign of terror throughout Europe" which was responsible for the impoverishment, torture, exile, and death of countless people. In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and was responsible for the execution of thousands of Spaniards. Accused heretics were identified by the general population and brought before the tribunal. The were given a chance to confess their heresy against the Catholic Church and were also encouraged to indict other heretics. If they admitted their wrongs and turned in other aggressors against the church they were either released or sentenced to a prison penalty. If they would not admit their heresy or indict others the accused were publicly introduced in a large ceremony before they were publicly killed or sentenced to a life in prison. One form of torment was called the Spanish Chair and described a heavy iron chair in which the victim was secured by straps around his neck, arms and upper legs. Integral with the end of the chair was a pair of iron socks, in which the bare feet of the heretic were secured. A glowing brazier was placed at the feet and to prevent the extremities from heating up too quickly, the skin surface of each foot was basted with lard or oil. French criminals suffered a similar torture especially in Brittany, where a pan containing the white-hot coals was moved slowly towards their feet until a confession had been extracted. In Italy King Ferdinand VII had a portable chair made of iron and accompanying pan underneath the seat. The Inquisition was eventually "abolished" in 1834 by King Bonaparte in 1834. Pope Paul III established the Roman Inquisition or Congregation of the Inquisition in 1542. Alarm had spread at the number of Protestants. In its first twelve years, the activities of the Roman Inquisition were relatively modest and were restricted almost exclusively to Italy. When Cardinal Carafa became Pope Paul IV in 1555, he immediately urged a vigorous pursuit of "suspects." One of the main areas of interest was subversive literature and first Index of Forbidden Books was compiled in 1559. Succeeding popes tempered the zeal of the Roman Inquisition, but it was this institution that later put Galileo on trial.


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Star Chamber

The Star Chamber was formed by Henry VII (1485-1509). The name Star Chamber came from the magnificent room in the palace of Westminster where, the chief justices, pontiffs and members of Privy Council met. Their remit was to pass sentence on those too powerful to be dealt with by an ordinary court or to decide on cases too complex to be understood by the uneducated juries of the day. Frequently the King would preside and pronounce judgment. The Star Chamber was entirely separate from the common law courts of the day. At first the intention was honourable but it soon deteriorated into a means for meeting out punishment. Under Chancellor Wolsey's leadership (1515-29), the Court of Star Chamber became a political weapon, bringing actions against opponents to the decrees and edicts of Henry VIII. Wolsey also encouraged petitioners to use the Court of the Star Chamber as a court of original jurisdiction, not as a last resort after the common law courts had failed. Depositions were taken from witnesses, but no jury was employed in the proceedings. Although its sentences included a wide variety of corporal punishments, including whipping, pillorying, and branding, those convicted were never sentenced to death. The court remained active through the reigns of James I and Charles I. The Star Chamber became a byword for unfair judicial proceedings but its supreme powers were not questioned until 1628 and it was finally abolished by the Long Parliament in 1641.


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Peine Forte et Dure
The term Peine Forte et Dure describes severe and hard punishment. Before and after judicial torture victims were strictly confined usually in a location which was in itself a passive form of torture. Authorities saw no need to pamper wrong doers and were determined to make their lives unbearable as possible to sap their resistance. The victims were often kept trussed up for weeks, usually naked and in extreme cold and damp conditions before confessions were secured. The registration of pain is caused by the release of chemicals such as bradykinnin , substance P and prostaglandins and can be divided into two types somatic and visceral. Somantic pain most often is in the muscles and skin. This is mild by comparison to visceral pain, which radiates from internal organs causing nausea and weakness. Detection of somatic pain is found by stimulation of the free nerve endings that lie near the surface of the skin. Once activated they transmit a signal to the brain, however not all sensation will be perceived as painful and the message maybe thwarted in several ways. Nerves, which transmit sensations of deep pressure, vibration, heat and cold, can override pain signals. Moods also affect the process, for example pain is sharper when the person is anxious. Once pain has been registered for 20-40 minutes the body will begin to produce opiate like chemicals to reduce pain sensations. The release of chemicals can cause anaesthetic europhoria and trance like qualities. Moderate anxiety increases the response to pain but paradoxically high levels of fear, including terror, decrease the response to pain. This may explain the why tormentors would use techniques to extremes.



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Chinese Torture
Throughout the ages the Chinese have acquired a reputation for torture. Historically it is more than likely the authorised use of torture in China for purposes of confession, or forms of punishment, and execution, were no more than most other civilised countries of the time. Seventeeth century author, Semedo (cited in Scott,1995) wrote of a foot torment called Kia Quen where three pieces of wood were connected by a rope. The foot of the victim was placed between the bamboo then systematically squeezed until the heel was compressed into the foot. This form of punishment was reserved for male culprits, whereas females would have their fingers crushed in a torture called Tean Zu. Bastinado or beating the sole of the foot was meted out to both genders as a punishment and often inflicted with sufficient vigour as to cause death to the victim. The origins of footbinding remain vague but most authorities believe it was part of Chinese custom since the 11th century. Some hold the opinion footbinding was in existence for a millennium before. The most popular belief, promulgated by early Christian missionaries, was the Empress Taki (11th century) was born with clubfeet, to avoid her humiliation, her father made an edict that all highborn women of China would have their feet bound. Another reason often cited by contemporary Chinese, who have grown up through the cultural revolution, was foot binding was a physical means of preventing married women from infidelity by physically restricting their movements. This would seem unlikely since there is no evidence to support restriction of the female gender in higher Chinese culture prior to modern times. It appears historic record would support the father of Empress Taki kept a troupe of erotic dancers with small feet. They used to dance on a floor of lotus leaves (a symbol of the vulva) for his sensual pleasure. This form of erotica became very popular but not all middle class men could afford the upkeep of a dance troupe. Foot binding of family members became established in the middle classes by way of paying respect to the Emperor. The habit plunged hundreds of millions of Chinese men, from highbrow mandarins to lowly peasants into ecstasies of sexual passion for nearly one thousand years. According to Rossi (1993) for genteel lovers the tiny foot provided endless amusement, with often the smell of the unwashed foot having charms for some, who referred to it as a fragrant bed aroma. Dr Chang Hui Shang considered that the alteration in walking due to the smaller foot caused changes in the female genitalia with sensitive folds developing in the labia. Further heightened sensuousness was experienced by the increased curvature of the sole of the foot, which was referred to as a second vagina. The big toe was proportionately large and tactile. A useful extension. Foot kissing and sucking was a common practice with the whole foot being placed in the mouth. Bound or lotus feet were considered the source of magical eroticism. Without doubt the practice of footbinding was as abhorrent to modern society as any ritualistic abuse. However when it was practised it was not as a punishment, albeit it was extremely painful, but instead as a coming of age, right of passage. To not have bound feet was a disgrace for a woman and social suicide. It is not always appreciated but some men had their feet bound. It is well reported within studies of anthropology that primitive tribes used painful rituals for entering adulthood. The ability to endure pain as a prerequisite for marriage was admired. The proof of pain may by itself have been the ultimate display that decoration was an unselfish act and that it was done to give pleasure to others (Bohannan P, cited in Love, 1997) Some tribes used the pain of scarifications to induce passion and thus fertility. Footbinding may have originally served a simialr purpose.



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Falanga & Bastinado

Flagellation is the oldest form of punishment and there are two forms of foot whipping i.e. falanga and bastinado. Although foot whipping was not always the same as torture, individuals did use it to this effect. At one time or another many types of whips rods and cudgels were used to beat the soles of the feet. Falanga (and bastinado) describe a form of foot torture where victims were bound with their feet raised and their soles beaten with sticks. In more recent times cables or metal implements might be used. It is thought falanga had its origins in Turkey but was also recorded in the Far East. Persians (now Iran) favoured bastinado, where the victim was gently and rhythmically beaten with a lightweight stick or bamboo on the soles of the feet. Continued bastinado resulted in uncontrollable hysteria and eventual mental collapse. In the Middle Ages, falanga was a punishment often used on traders who were dishonest. For some reason, bakers were particularly singled and this sent shock waves across Europe. In England, bakers attempted to avoid such official scrutiny by making a good will gesture to their customers and supplying a thirteenth role with every dozen purchased. This is the origins of the bakers dozen. A common misunderstanding was the thirteen, represented the twelve disciples plus Jesus. Falanga is still used today as torture, partly because the effects are difficult to identify medically. Blows are sometimes direct to bare feet or through shoes. In severe cases, casualties may be forced to walk on glass; or jump, on the spot carrying a heavy weight. The immediate effects are pains, with bleeding and tissue swelling but permanent damaged is dependent on posttraumatic oedema (or swelling). Torturers might limit this, as part of the ordeal, by cooling the feet or forcing the victim to put their shoes on after a beating. Smashing the heel and ball of the foot destroys the natural fatty-fibro padding, which assists shock absorption in normal walking. Depending on the severity of damage this would leave the victim unable to walk without pain. Skin wounds heal by second intention, leaving painful scars. Detachment of the skin at its deeper levels result in damage to proprioception adding considerably to pathological gait. Many victims report aponeuritis where the whole sole of the foot has become painful. Changes in pressure within muscle compartments necessitate a radical change in walking style. The feet are reported as hot and cold and there is an increase in the rate of perspiration. Stability and balance may also be adversely affected due to falanga. In many regions of the world falanga is still practised as a form of corporal punishment in bringing up children.


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The Boot

The Scots have never been backward when it comes to ingenuity and invention and were at the forefront of niche torture, inventing the boot (referred to as brodequins or bootkins). The cunning device ensured maximum agony without endangering life in anyway. There were several versions of the boot and all caused excruciating agony. The earlier boot consisted of a wooden frame around the lower leg and foot, similar to those that support young saplings. This was tightly bound in position with a strong rope. The victim was seated and had both legs incased, side by side. In a systematic way tension was increased to the tissues by driving wooden wedges into the framework causing compression of soft tissue, and crushing the legs and feet. Four wedges were used for ordinary torture and eight wedges in extraordinary torture. As the chords bit through the flesh it caused excruciating pain. In much case the bones were fractured. Later the wooden frame was replaced with an iron boot. Wedges were driven downward between the boot and flesh causing, pure agony. Sometimes the boot was heated until red hot during interrogation, a reference to this practice is found in Grimm's fairytales. Torture of the boot was considered by contemporary observers to be most severe and cruel and it was rare for anyone to survive the ordeal without permanent disfigurement. The alarm caused by the idea of the boot was often enough to loosen tongues but the event of the foot crushing was considered so upsetting to witnesses, many official observers would avoid the torture sessions. This created problems since there had to be independent witnesses present to confirm confession. Orders compelling the number of people required to stay were necessary. The Royals frequently visited the torture sessions and considered them as entertainment. The boot was used from sixteenth century onwards and equally applied to men and women. The boot was often reserved for suspected practitioners of the occult with many accused witches and warlocks were forced to endure foot torture. So successful was this torment several versions of the boot began to appear across Europe. In Spain, the Inquisition used the Spanish Boot which was an iron casing for the leg and foot and had a screw attachment for compressing the calf of the leg. Sometimes the leggings were heated whilst on the leg, alternatively they were pre heated then applied to the naked flesh. The advantage of the former method was questions could be asked before applying heat, otherwise damage was so immediate by the latter method, there was little advantage to the interrogator. This was done only as a last resort. The French version of the boot consisted of high boots made of spongy leather. These were placed on the legs of the victim who was sat in front of a burning fire. Boiling hot water was poured into the watertight boots penetrating the leather; and causing the flesh to coo. The subsequent shrinkage of the leather as it dried out tore mercilessly at the flesh. The Irish customised the boot and modified the French practice by pouring melted resin into the boots. Confessions were swift. The Austria Hungarian Empire used both crusher boots with wedges as well as the iron boot. Later variations on the basic boot theme included shin crushers from Germany and bone crushing tongs from Spain and the Lisbon Inquisition (1704) used the iron slipper. An alternative to the boot was called the foot press, and consisted of a pair of horizontal iron plates lined with spikes. Systematically each foot was squeezed between them. Another fiendish variant was the instep border, a boot like device with a six-inch retractable spike positioned over the instep. The victim was strapped to a chair and the crank was turned to drive the spike into the bootlike enclosure, piercing the instep and emeging through the sole of the foot.



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Caspicaws


Caspicaw or chasielawis means warm hose and described a form of torture where the victim wore crude stockings made from parchment. These were applied wet and the victims were placed next to a roaring hot fire. As the fabric shrunk the ensuing pain was agonising. Foot roasting described a particularly nasty torture when the victims legs were immobilized in stocks and the soles of the feet were smeared with fat and boiled over red-hot coals.



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Piquet


In the days of the British Empire, the British Army regiments were stationed in the outposts often living in tented camps. Judicial punishments were barbaric judged by today's standards but extremely effective in the field. One form of torment meted out to unruly privates was called piquet or picket. A long post was driven into the ground and the soldier left to stand on a stool beside it. His right hand was attached to a hook at the top of the post. A short length of timber was driven into the ground near the stool, with its upper end rounded to a blunt point. The soldier had to rest one heel on the stake when the stool was removed. Suspended from one wrist his body mass pressed against the spike through his bare heel. His position was changed every fifteen minutes. Although considered a military punishment but there was one case reported in Trinidad (1801) where a young women had to undergo a modified form of picket where her big toe was balanced on a sharp spike in the ground as she was suspended from the wrists.



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Water Torture


A bizarre torture practised in Medieval France called for the victim to be tied to a bench and their feet bathed in salt water. A goat was brought to the poor unfortunate prisoner and allowed to lick their feet. The rough tongue against the sensitive soles with the fear of being bitten, soon brought a confession. Trenchfoot (and Immersion foot) although not a torture per se were none the less a painful experience for soldiers and prisoners of war exposed to prolonged and extreme weather conditions. Without shoes and socks to protect their feet they were at the mercy of the elements. Trenchfoot was common in cold and wet conditions; immersion foot in hot and wet conditions. Overexposure resulted in a complete collapse of the foot's architecture, rendering the active soldier, immobile. Many serving troops supplied with inadequate footwear suffered trenchfoot in the trenches. Hence the name. In the Second World War, the European Campaign saw many thousands of active soldiers similarly inflicted. Immersion foot was recognised in the warm jungle theatre of war. Stealing boots from battlefield corpses was commonly reported and often the only means of preventing over exposure. Considerable number of soldiers were court marshalled for deliberately exposing their feet to the extreme elements in order to avoid fighting.



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Kittee


The Indians used an implement called the Kittee. It was made of wood and resembled a domestic lemon squeezer. Sensitive parts of the body including the feet were squeezed between two plates until the victim could bare it no more. When applied to the foot, the executioner would stand on the upper board or heap heavy stones leaving the victim for hours at a stretch. Torture by the kittee usually left the victim crippled.



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Toe Cutting


The term toe cutter is Australian slang for a person who lives by torturing other criminals, then robbing them. As the name implies the torture usually involves painful removal of the digits or in some cases the complete foot. Few victims ever inform since their loss has been acquired illegally. An infamous toe cutter was "Jimmie the Pom". His gang operated in the Sydney area during the seventies. They prayed on fellow criminals threatening bodily harm, till they disclosed the whereabouts of their ill begotten gains. Their modis operandi was to cut people's toes off, with bolt cutters. By day, the leader of the extorionists, ran a dress shop. He emigrated to Australia in 1967 and claimed to be a member of the notorious Kray Brothers Gang from East London where he picked up the idea. His technique seemed to work because over the years it is reputed the Toe Cutter Gang were able to amass considerable loot from their fiendish toe fetish. Less adept copycats used blowtorches applied to the soles of the feet to achieve the same end. Tablillas were pillories used by the Spanish Inquisition and immobilised the toes when the victim was bound to the rack. Sharp wedges were hammered head-on into the toes one by one to obliterate the phalanx.



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Shooting the foot

Historically the Irish were not a nation known to use torture and apart from a brief flirtation with the Irish Boot, always considered torment, the perogative of the English. However in more recent years Irish terrorists have been associated with knee capping, i.e. shooting the victim through the knee. Because this was so commonplace, Belfast orthopaedic surgeons perfected new reconstructive techniques and combined with imporved rehabilitation the victim's chances of walking without a limp have improved. Agents of terror reacting to this changed their modis operandi and shot their victims through the foot.


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Oregon Boot
The Oregon Boot was the equivalent to the medieval ball and chain. A heavy iron leg cuff which was secured about the ankle and held in place by a stirrup like attachment passing under the heel. The purpose of the Oregon Boot was to restrict quick movement and was used on prisoners on outside work duty. The term Chain Gang was used to describe prisoners tethered together with with chains.


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Algophilia
Some people derive intense sexual pleasure from pain and this is called algophilia. It appears to take two forms sadism or the ecstacy associated with the infliction or witnessing pain; and masochism, the eroticism induced by the suffering of pain or persecution. In masochism as in sadism this pleasure principle is limited to or intimately associated with sexual excitation. It may be accompanied by or it may form a substitute for coitus. Pain can trigger a reaction from the autonomic nervous system causing an increase rate of breathing heart rate and blood pressure. In the masochist this may enhance sexual sensitivity or experience. It is thought many of the Inquisitors were sadists, and some sado-masochists.


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Toe Nail Tearing
Tearing out toe nails has long been a tool of terror and especially when they were performed with hot or cold iron pincers, or with sharp wooden skewers that could be dipped in boiling oil and driven under the toenails to slowly pry them away from the flesh.


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Bibliography
Abbott G 1997 Rack, rope and hot pincer: a history of tortuture and its instruments London: Brockhampton Press
Rossi WA 1993 The sexlife of the foot and shoe Florida:Krieger Publishing Co.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VII
Jackson B. 1999 Splendid Slippers
Khalifah The Fisherman Of Baghdad Arabian Nights
Love B 1995 The encyclopaedia of unusual sex practices London: Greenwich Editions
On Persian Jews and their Persecutione
Patrin Web Journal Timeline of Romani History
Read MB 1991 Chopper: from the inside NSW: Sly Ink
Scott GR 1995 A history of torture London: Senate




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Acknowledgement
The author would like to thank all the people who contributed.



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Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 11:58 PM
from IP address 207.166.216.244

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North Dakota Board--> Gale Torture

by Center for Peer Review Justice, Inc. (no login)

Cam is a good guy and quite interesting.
He did a nice job on the study of Foot Torture.

The North Dakota Board of Podiatry specialized in the Foot DOCTOR Torture. One read of www.BrianGale.com or the newer Websites is enough.

Soon to be seen on an evening TV News Magazine.
Looking forward to seeing how they spin the fact that the APMA SUPPORTED the North Dakota Boards Torture
on this very talented and kind young podiatrist.

( For those who think that this post is TOO NEGATIVE, I invite you to review the facts since February 2000 when Gale made his story public with a post on Podiatry Online. Since DPMs were angry, the APMA "did something". They had a "Board of Inquiry" and ordered Gale and his supporters to shut up until the results of that "investigation" was over 18 months later.

Read what Alan Sherman, DPM, Editor of Podiatry Online wrote about the APMA "investigation". It is all in the archives of Podiatry online.

NO PROFESSION should ever proudly show the entire medical world that they support such utter activites that even the NEW Board Members of the North Dakato Board can not allow.

Let's continue to have politics before principle in the Podiatry profession. That is so terribly respectful, don't you think?

If anyone else wants to discuss this matter with me, please feel free to call me at 504-621-1670
or info@PeerReview.org.

We can PROVE every word with THOUSANDS of documents.
And if someone whats to be an early bird and see them before they are on Brian Gale's website, call me.

The Center For Peer Review Justice, Inc.


Posted on Aug 18, 2002, 2:26 AM
from IP address 67.24.12.31

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Some clarifications and harsh truths concerning reality

by Howard Weisman, DPM (no login)

I think my initial posting was misinterpreted by a few individuals. It was supposed to be a motivational post not a put down. I think that people who are in tough situations in podiatry need to keep fighting. My own story involves a perpetual struggle to stay on top. I finished podiatry school in the early 90's and had significant debt from undergrad as well as pod school. I opened my own practice right away and worked at it day and night. I am extremely successful financially and I can help you all with my advice. I learned everything I could about podiatry and billing as well as the podiatric business dynamics in my chosen community. I learned to maximize every dollar that I spend. I employ three DPM's (2 are PSR-12's and one is a PPMR) and I pay them on a 1099 basis, this helps me keep costs way down. I offer catastrophic health insurance only and I have incentive based vacation. When you are in business for yourself, you must be wary of every penny. I REFUSE to see patients for whom I cannot collect a fee. Yes, initially this seems harsh, but we as physicians are like every other business. You have to think like that to make it in today's reduced reimbursement world. I also do free foot health seminars and have made it known to all of the general physicans that I will see all of their referalls on a same day basis. I billed 2.5 million in fees in 2001 and netted after taxes and all overhead including reinvestment into my business a clean $350,000. I work damn hard for this money, including at times doing my own fee collecting and emptying my own garbage, but it is worth it.

Now for the remarks I made about osteopathy I would like to apologize if I offended anyone. The reality is however that a great majority (many more than admit it) of physicians see a D.O. degree as inferior. DO's (99.9%) of the time did not choose that field, they were self selected into it because they did not possess the credentials or skills to get into an accredited US allopathic program. The same can certainly be said for some podiatry students, but you are comparing apples to oranges here. Anyone who denies this is lying. The hogwash about wanting to treat patients the DO way (including manipulation) is 100% certifiable BS. There is no "credible" evidence based study supporting it's use. The joke made around my country (by MD's) club is the only manipulating we see DO's doing is manipulating the public that they are real doctors. This ofcourse is unfair and not the truth, but IT IS REALITY. 99.99% of all DO's practice the same way as do MD's. There is no discernible difference in overall pt management and practice standards. The "DO way" is a myth perpetuated by those who want to justify having that degree. Harsh, but the truth. Please do not delude yourself into thinking you will be an allopathic "medical equal" if you go the DO route, You won't. Also, if you obtain a medical degree abroad (offshore, etc..) you will more than likley never obtain an accredited residency or get hospital privlidges. I am on the credentialing committee of 2 medical centers, and I will admit that we make it extremely difficult for FMG's as well as some DO's and even new DPM's to obtain admitting and practice privlidges. Is this fair? NO, but it is the reality today. As podiatrists we have to play our role in the medical world. We have to cater to the generalist and not offend the orthopedist...this can be tough, but it is doable. YOu have to be willing to do primary care podiatry, as this continues to be our bread and butter. I have attained a practice wherby I do about 20-25 surgical procedures a month, operating 2 full days a week. I have my associates do routine care as well as fulfill my nurisng home contract obligations. My employess are paid well (average gross of $68,000 each last year working a 38 hour week). I think more of you need to whine less and work harder. You should donate more of your time and money to our political cause as well as the APMA and applicant recruitment, that is where we need your voice, not on some internet forum lambasting the profession that feeds your kids. I ofcourse welcome all comments.

Sincerely,

Howard Weisman, DPM
Valley Foot and Ankle Surgical Associates, P.C.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 9:01 AM
from IP address 192.234.106.2

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concerned and curious

by anon (no login)

Dr. Weisman claims to perform 20-25 procedures a month.
He is not listed as having priveleges at the hospital
from which this post originated (I checked). (I checked). I am concerned about the veracity of his
posting. I want to believe. Please verify your existence.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.229 on Aug 17, 2002 9:18 PM

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 3:56 PM
from IP address 12.149.100.21

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hmmm

by herculean_foot (no login)

dr. weismann,

congratulations on being a successful D.P.M. I just want to tell you about osteopathic medicine a little bit. Your 99.99% of D.O. students not wanting to go D.O.comment......well i don't know where you get the number, but i'm in a D.O. school and majority of my classmates, myself included, could have gotten accepted to an M.D. school in the U.S. but chose a D.O. school (most have GPA 3.3 and higher and MCAT of 30 and higher and for me location was the key, cali).
Your second comment about D.O.s practicing like M.D.s, D.O.s and M.D.s are similar, we take the same classes, do same rotations, same hospitals for residencies, of course D.O.s and M.D.s will be practicing similarly. I guess my view and yours differ, I see Osteopathic manipulation as an extra tool that i will be able to use to help my patients and you see it as B.S. that's ok, it's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.
Like i said before, congrats on making it with your practice, i'm sure it did take a lot of hard work. Since you're in a good position to influence a lot of people (2 medical committes? i think) wouldn't it be better to foster a good relationship with other practitioners (be it D.P.M.s, D.O.s, FMGs) than to make yourself above the rest by putting them down.
This countries needs physicians (about 6000 Foreign Medical Graduates obtain residency spot in the US every year) so be it D.P.M, D.O., M.D., O.D., D.D.S., we all are needed here and nobody is second class, to obtain those degrees, we all have to go thru 4 years of hard work.
Well dr. Weismann, i wish you well and hopefully someday you could appreciate my profession as i appreciate yours.

- Osteopathic MS-2

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 7:45 PM
from IP address 12.106.89.75

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Dr. Weisman

by Anomalous (no login)

I appreciate your comments and I, personally, feel that your post is true and full of interesting facts.

I know that there are some MD's who are insecure enough to pit themselves against DO's and look at them as inferior. But, as another poster pointed out and I have said on many an occasion, there really isn't any difference. The only real difference is that the GPA's and MCAT's are a little bit lower on the average when compared with allopathic schools. Other than that there isn't any difference. And, I also agree with you that very few DO's actually use OMM in their practices. They pretty much all function like their MD counterparts. And, I personally believe that around 90-95% of pod students really wanted to go to MD school but lacked the grades or MCATs to do it. I'll always believe that until someone offers some credible evidence as to why someone would pick DPM over MD.

Now, I have another question. It's clear that you are a good businessman and are careful about how you spend your money. This is the only way to do business. But what struck me as rather telling and just more proof about how difficult it is to earn a living as a young pod is the average salary that your DPM's make. I'm not criticizing what you're paying them, but I just want everyone to know out there who keeps spouting the drivel about how one should not accept these low salaries, etc. THIS IS THE REALITY! If you're 1099-ing these pods and their average GROSS is 68k then their actual net is going to be something close to 35-40 (if they're lucky). Working full time as a supposed doctor and netting around 3k a month is pretty embarassing if you ask me. Some plumbers, electricians and college teachers make this much and they aren't 150k in debt with mountains of sacrifice behind them. Your employees are responsible for their self-employment tax which, all told, comes to about another 15% of total income. And, I'm sure that you're not paying for CME, etc., which adds even more costs. And, I understand why you base their vacation on an incentive plan, but here we go again. This is podiatry, folks. No offense, Dr. Weisman (seriously, because I understand that you need to make money and you've worked hard to get where you are), but I've never even heard of giving a vacation to an employee based on incentive.

Please don't take offense to any of these comments, Dr. Weisman. I'm only pointing out what I've been saying for some time. It's next to impossible to make a good living in podiatry for the first 5 years and moderately difficult to do it after that time. And, no matter what your amazing training was, you're likely to be doing nothing but chipping, clipping, molding and strapping for some time. I think it's great that you semi-detailed how you did it because nobody else was willing to help out.

Thanks for the contrite tone and adding some of your steps to success.

Posted on Aug 18, 2002, 3:12 PM
from IP address 64.172.199.138

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What is the opinion of DPMs at your "club house"?

by MS3 (no login)

I like the way you throw in the... "views of DOs at the club house". It gives the reader a sense that you are such a sucessful "doctor" and that you belong, especially among MDs, joining them in their coversations about how DOs are not doctors after a tough round of golf and have a few laughs among the boys. Good one! I guess if the MDs at your "club house" said that we are not doctors, I guess that is the belief of all MDs and you better believe them! A question for you: what do your MD buddies think about podiatrists? And with the manipulation comments, I guess ALL podiatrists (about hhmmm 99.9%) practice what they learn in biomechanics class right?

A friendly note to the moderator: You approved the previous post. If you sensor this one, then it is definitely not fair and your view about doctors, which ever kind they may be, is definitely biased...

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 7:26 PM
from IP address 169.147.155.153

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Chit chat at the Club.

by (no login)

Yes it was disturbing to read about the succesful DPM rubbing elbows with his/her medical familiars. Perhaps the DPM was a caddy or maybe a servor at the club. Sometimes DPMs have to take on extra jobs to make ends meet and folks in the kitchen from time to time find out that one of the `staff'-kitchen help-we ain't talking Tiger Woods here. One of the staff is a sort of doctor.
I remember at my Club, we were working on the tree house when one of the MDs asked (actually he hollered that if I shagged the ball that went into the lagoon he'd throw me a couple of fungal nail patients-after, of course they'd been evaluated by the derm.
You betcha, I climbed outta that tree house and pu lled out the Titleiest for the doctor and he gave me some advice.
"Young pod," he said.
"What's that sir." I was sweating, I actually got to shag balls for an RD (we called them REAL DOCTORS at the Club).
"Ah know you all have all them there student loans and they all are gonna be cuttin' on back on Meddy care payments to podiatrists, so I got some good advice for you."
Wow. I thought to myself real advice from someone who could hit a golf ball. I'm not saying that there were not a few DPMs who were members of the club-there were-but they had the special red-label membership. They could only tee off between midnight and six. Kind of like - Yesiree Bob, pod boy you can have surgical privelages but can only operate-op you rate- if that's what you call it when there ain't nobody `round.

Be all that as it may, I was shagging balls and cleaning up the tree house at the local country club to make ends meet. My HEAL loan was late and the only way I could make ends meet was garnering whatever I could. It wasn't until much later that I found out that this fellow who I thought was a hot shot MD was really collecting a hefty disability check and living off his laurels. Whatever, he said: "Son, what you gotta do is become a PEE DORTHIST."
"What's that?" I said.
"Its a feller that makes shoes for people."
"Can't podiatrists do that?"
"Sure they can, but who's gonna take podey-at-rist, in the RD world we like to call them PODEY AT RISKs."
"Wow."
"Can I make living? Making shoes for people?"
"Heck of a lot more then cuttin' away at the fungi."

That is when I decided that PODIATRY had hit its most underpar level and swore that if there was a way to do a three year podiatric residency and learn how to do all sorts of pins and rods and corrections of the normal foot, I'd become a chiropractor. After all, adjusting the human spine takes guts...and then the MD golfer spat a wad of chewing tobacco on my shoes.
"Clean that up pod boy-we can't have you droppin' off my bag lookin' like a horde of grasshoppers took your tuition money and did something funny to your Converse All Stars.

Poidatric Experiences.
What would you do Mister Doctor if this happened to you? Would you finish cleaning the tree house?

Yep, I did, and in it I found a little brochure that guided me to the place that I am at now.

I am studying up on how to do triple arthrodesis and can not wait-I have to save all my golf tips-to take the board certifying test ( I don't know which one to take because there are over six hundred). But someday, I too will get a bag of chewing tobacco and spit on some podiatrists' shoes.

Posted on Aug 24, 2002, 12:21 PM
from IP address 64.157.145.197

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$68,000?

by cma (no login)

Howard,

From what I've read you could pay these associates a lot less. They must be people you want to work around.

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 5:14 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.119

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$68,000 is Too Low.

by M. Boyer (no login)

Unless one lives in South Dakota, Missippi, or Indianna, $68, 000 (pre-tax) is low for a "doctor."

$68,000 as a 1099 (independent contractor, must FILE ALL taxes) is a poor for a "doctor" and sort of embarassing. 24 yo. RN make 55-61,000 for a 32 hour week pre-tax with real 4 week paid vacations, matching 401K, MEDICAL/DENTAL ETC.. (what is "incentive based vacation??) As a 1099 these "associates" can be let go at anytime, have no personal stake in your business and are no different than the cleaning lady that comes in 3X week. (cleaning lady $31,000 pre-taxes, paid 2 week vacation, med/dent, and disability.--no college, no "medical" school.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 12:14 PM
from IP address 134.174.157.134

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market price

by cma (no login)

If these people are willing to work for $68,000 a year, then so be it. If they could find better positions, then they should. Does Howard have to pay someone more than the market price just so they can feel more "doctorlike"?
If these people are Independent contractors then they can work elsewhere to augment their incomes.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 4:19 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.124

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1099 is Evil, 68K is worse

by M. Boyer (no login)

Why should a 'doctor' work elsewhere after working in on full time job. 2-3 jobs just to make ends meet, does the podiatry recruiter or "Dean" that lured people into podiatry have 2-3 jobs to make ends meet??

68K (1099) is poor regardless of the spin, an independent contractor is the worst for tax purposes. As a former accountant it can be deadly, podiatry is a unique profession that employs 1099 workforce similar to some landscapers, plumbers and automechanics--most of which have a higher income/lifestyle/hours worked potential than the starting podiatrist.

Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 9:04 AM
from IP address 134.174.244.221

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Important comments.

by (no login)





SOME COMMENTS IN CAPS. SEE BELOW.

Some clarifications and harsh truths concerning reality
by Howard Weisman, DPM (no login)

I opened my own practice right away and worked at it day and night. I am extremely successful financially and I can help you all with my advice.

I AM SURE THE YOUNGER AND OLDER DOCTORS WILL REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE.

I learned everything I could about podiatry and billing as well as the podiatric business dynamics in my chosen community. I learned to maximize every dollar that I spend. I employ three DPM's (2 are PSR-12's and one is a PPMR) and I pay them on a 1099 basis, this helps me keep costs way down.

IF YOU "EMPLOY" THESE DOCTORS, THEN YOU "EMPLOY" THEM AND THEY ARE NOT "INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS". NO CPA, EXCEPT THE ONES AT ARTHUR ANDERSON, WOULD PERMIT THIS.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT THEY QUALIFY AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.

I offer catastrophic health insurance only

IF YOU OFFER INSURANCE, AREN'T THEY EMPLOYED RATHER THAN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS? WOULD ONE GIVE INSURANCE AS A BENEFIT TO A CORPORATION THAT ONE CONTRACTS WITH? NEVER.

ARE YOUNG PODIATRISTS THRILLED TO KNOW THAT THE BEST THEY CAN DO EMPLOYMENT WISE IS TO GET "CATASTROPHIC INSURANCE" RATHER THAN THE "GOOD KIND"?

REGULAR JOBS GIVE GOOD INSURANCE.

and I have incentive based vacation.
AN "INCENTIVE BASED" VACATION. WITH OR WITHOUT THE LEG IRONS?

When you are in business for yourself, you must be wary of every penny. I REFUSE to see patients for whom I cannot collect a fee.

PERSONALLY, THIS IS SAD. VERY SAD TO READ.

Yes, initially this seems harsh, but we as physicians are like every other business.

NO WE ARE NOT. I CAN SHOW YOU MEDICAL MALPRACTICE CLAIMS THAT PROVE IT.

You have to think like that to make it in today's reduced reimbursement world. I also do free foot health seminars and have made it known to all of the general physicans that I will see all of their referalls on a same day basis. I billed 2.5 million in fees in 2001 and netted after taxes and all overhead including reinvestment into my business a clean $350,000. I work damn hard for this money, including at times doing my own fee collecting and emptying my own garbage, but it is worth it.


I am on the credentialing committee of 2 medical centers, and I will admit that we make it extremely difficult for FMG's as well as some DO's and even new DPM's to obtain admitting and practice privlidges. Is this fair? NO, but it is the reality today.

SIR, YOU MAY BE BREAKING THE LAW. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO DO WHAT YOU STATE YOU ARE DOING. YOU ADMIT THAT YOU "MAKE IT EXTREAMELY DIFFICULT" FOR FMGs, DOs AND ESPECIALLY DPMs TO GET ADMITTING ...."

IT IS HARD TO LITIGATE AS THE HOSPITAL HAS PLENTY OF MONEY AND THE YOUNG DOCTOR HAS NOTHING.

HOWEVER, IF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE CENTER FOR PEER REVIEW JUSTICE, INC. APPROVE, WE WOULD APPOINT A VERY COMPETENT LAWYER AND PAY FOR HIM. INDEED, OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WILL WEIGH IN AND HELP, ALSO.

DEPENDING ON THE DETAILS, A MILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT WOULD BE EXPECTED.

As podiatrists we have to play our role in the medical world. We have to cater to the generalist and not offend the orthopedist...this can be tough, but it is doable. YOu have to be willing to do primary care podiatry, as this continues to be our bread and butter. I have attained a practice wherby I do about 20-25 surgical procedures a month, operating 2 full days a week. I have my associates do routine care as well as fulfill my nurisng home contract obligations. My employess are paid well (average gross of $68,000 each last year working a 38 hour week). I think more of you need to whine less and work harder. You should donate more of your time and money to our political cause as well as the APMA and applicant recruitment, that is where we need your voice, not on some internet forum lambasting the profession that feeds your kids. I ofcourse welcome all comments.

Sincerely,

Howard Weisman, DPM
Valley Foot and Ankle Surgical Associates, P.C.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 9:01 AM
from IP address 192.234.106.2
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Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 10:43 PM
from IP address 67.24.14.152

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I agree

by Anonymous (no login)

If you read the definition of independent contractor I don't feel these 3 associates qualify. In my opinion they should be saleried and get W-2's. Yes that means Dr. Weisman's corporation would have to pay FICA on their wages but that only fair. Now if these associates are using their own instruments and getting thier own patients and just using his space to see their patients than I can see giving them 1099's. Or if they are covering for another physician out of town than I can see the 1099's. But they sound like employees to me. I'm not prepared to blame Dr. Weisman I think those 3 associates need to take some of the responsibility for allowing themselves to be put in that situation. Stand up for yourselves and know what's going on. Knowledge is power. Just my opinion.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 8:58 AM
from IP address 64.196.60.41

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Not surprised at 68k

by Anony (no login)

Does anyone else think it's kind of funny, but in an embarassingly pathetic sense, that Dr. Weisman seems proud to offer his associates such an opportunity. True, there are no jobs anyway, so any offer of employment should be cause to break a bottle of Cold Duck (being the only champagne a DPM can afford), but to openly admit paying a stipend of 68k makes me a bit nauseated.

I think Dr. Weisman is also getting kind of confused abou the term "employees". These are not employees if he 1099's them. They are independent contractors (well, in this case, indentured slaves) who are liable for much more than any employee would be. Just for starters, they are responsible for paying their own Medicare and Social Security x 2 (employers usually pay the 2nd half). They are also responsible for ALL incidentals related to their job. All told, this puts them in a tax bracket that is roughly 14-15% higher than an "employee".

OK. Just what is "incentive vacation"????? Never heard of it. Sounds like telemarketing or used car sales.

Here's a short list of careers where people can net at least 35k/year.

Nurse
Physician Assistant (actually more than 35k)
Community College Teacher
Good car mechanic
General Manager of Chuck E. Cheese (I applied once)
General Manager of almost any restaurant (I used to be an assistant manager of a relatively high-end restaurant).
Computer Programmer
Good Physical Therapist
Good Occupational Therapist
Average Pharmaceutical Sales Rep (used to be one)

There are so many others. And none of these require the excessive training that the majority of DPM's undergo to non-surgeons. None of these require much more than two years beyond a bachelor's. None of these require the frightening sum of money that a pod student shells out.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 3:30 PM
from IP address 63.206.142.57

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RUN from Podiatry

by Pod Runner (no login)

If any post can influence an Applicant to run from Podiatry, a post from a Doctor making 2.5 Million a year and having Independent Contractors at about 35K a year take home.

Is this the reason why someone struggles through 4 more years of hard Medical School and residency to have a job that does 35K?

Plus nobody mentioned how one pays off 150,000-200,000
in student loans on that amount. And if they are not paid, the number gets larger. and larger.

And larger.

So, the other side will say that this is only a stepping stone for these doctors to get experience before they go elsewhere or open up on their own. Betcha they can't open up in the same town, due to the non-compete agreement.

The Reality of Podiatry. It is Reality and it ain't
pretty. And, here was the proof.

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 7:50 PM
from IP address 67.25.11.101

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non=compete clauses never hold up

by Anonymous (no login)

They can and should open up on there own. Plus is they are calssified as independent contractors they are just that and a non-compete clause will def not hold up.

Posted on Aug 21, 2002, 9:48 AM
from IP address 64.196.60.47

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he said

by cma (no login)

he said billed out 2.5mil
he probably collected half that

Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 1:39 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.119

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examples of incomes

by R Wilner, DPM (no login)


Examples of Incomes:


The Drug reps make above $60,000 per year. My cousin earns way in excess of $150,000 per year. No student loans. The benefits include a car, a 40 hour week, no malpractice insurance, and nobody asking you if you should cut it "straight across or in the edges".

My close friend who is a manufactures rep for eyeglasses makes $300,000 a year.

Car Mechanic for dealer makes $15.00 per hour.

Physical Therapists can earn over $100,000 a year.
The starting salaries in hospitals are posted. There ARE jobs available-- UNLIKE podiatry. Check your sunday paper. Any Sunday.

Nurses make $25 an hour. 4 year degree,

Delgado Community College Instructor makes $22-26,000.

pharmacists make $60,000- 70,000.

In my opinion, a "doctor level" program that needs a
long residency and has the very high tuition must have incomes of 100,000+ or else it makes no economic sense as a business venture. And, the gamble is on the fact that the majority of the income comes from Medicare. Who can predict how Medicare will handle podiatry?
And who whats to tie one's life to that?



Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 8:03 PM
from IP address 67.25.11.101

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medical incomes

by cma (no login)

These are what typical physicians make. First year.

Radiation Oncologists can be guaranteed $600,000 starting out.

Radiology positions 300k+
Anesthesiologists 300k+
FP 100k+

Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 1:10 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.119

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odd

by Anonymous (no login)

Seems a bit odd that those aren't the same numbers that the Bureau of Labor and Statistics come up with.

Posted on Aug 22, 2002, 8:00 PM
from IP address 209.244.85.218

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it is odd

by cma (no login)

it is not that odd. We are talking about some govt. statistic.

in the last year of allopathic residency, one begins a job search. Radiology and Anesthesiology have been increasingly in high demand--and will be for years.

All kinds of jobs are available. It is easy for a new grad to find a job guaranteeing around $300,000 in either field. Radiation Oncology is a great field. A person finishing training would make a hell of a lot more than me(anes). I have heard that they can be guaranteed $600,000 at some jobs. They generally make more than that.

All medical residents are actively pursued by potential employers.

Posted on Aug 26, 2002, 7:49 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.61

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TUSPM

by TUSPM Student (no login)

Just a quick post. TUSPM is converting their outdated OR into a new sugery center. Anesthesiologists will provide MAC (I don't know about GA). Only pods will do surgery there at first, but the plan is to open it up to other specialties for short procedures as well. I think it should be a good moneymaker for the school (billing for OR time, instrument trays etc.) I think the dean should be commended for thinking outside the box to bring some cash flow into the school outside of students tuition.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 7:34 AM
from IP address 12.90.47.124

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DPM or OD?

by AG (no login)

Which degree would be better to pursuit, a DPM or OD?
How do the professions of podiatry and optometry compare in job placement, income, status, and lifestyle?
I know that new Podiatrists are facing many challenges from job offers to college loans. Do Optometrists face similar problems as well?

Thanks

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 3:17 PM
from IP address 152.163.204.189

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Q and A

by R. Wilner, DPM (no login)



Question: Which degree would be better to pursuit, a DPM or OD?

Answer: here is absolutely no question in my mind that a DO is better than a DPM. A MD is better an a DO. A DO is better than a OD or DC. However, a
"MRS" degree to Bill Gates, beats all.

The OD profession is changing. Depending on the state, they are getting Rx privileges. I do not see them ever doing eye surgeries. Too many MDs who have tasted retail eye Sx and million dollar incomes.

The DPM is a surgical and non-surgical field with many problems on all levels, there is no question.
If one "makes it", it can be alot of fun. If one does not "make it" one has pissed away his entire economic life. This is a very real reality in podiatry, in my opinion. I do not see a concerted effort in our profession on improving it.
In my opinion, it is "every man for himself".

I expect others to have a difference of opinion. However, if one graphs various economic realities in the podiatry field they are all going south.
The whole idea of getting a profession degree is so that life is easier not harder and with economic risks that DESTROY before one even begins life.

I would NEVER, ever have my daughter become of Podiatrist. I would approve of her becoming a "pole dancer", instead of getting a DPM degree.

Question: How do the professions of podiatry and optometry compare in job placement, income, status, and lifestyle?

Answer: Status: Both are "doctors".
Both are 4 year schools. DPMs need a 2 year Residency
and are hospital based to some extent.
ODs have made a ton of money a decade ago with the "1 hour labs" and as the pre-op "finder" of Laser Surgery Pts.

ODs bitch because their field has become "retail" that is, everyone is shopping for the "best price" and deals.

Contact the OD schools and profession and see what they say.

There is MONEY in the eye wear field. The profits are absolutely incredible. I have a friend who was a manufactors rep who earned over $300,000 just from his commission from the sales of frames. And, to think that he had no student loans to pay, no malpractice insurance, and did not have to breath nail dust. (you can't eat status)

Question: I know that new Podiatrists are facing many challenges from job offers to college loans. Do Optometrists face similar problems as well?

Answer: No profession any more is "easy". The gravy train is over. All professions suffer from the fact that the older doctors "eat their young".
In some professions, the older docs "nibble" on the young. In our profession, the older docs are the sharks. <LOL>

I hope this helps a bit. Remember, all opinions are my own and are not facts. I am pretty flexible about most things, EXCEPT, if my daughter wants to become a Podiatrist. Then, I am a "hard ass".

Good luck and enjoy your seach.

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 11:54 PM
from IP address 63.215.173.15

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I would go for OD

by Rose (no login)

Not that i have anything with pods, but the OD profession is less demanding in terms of caring for the patient.

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 1:37 AM
from IP address 198.81.16.187

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What I receive from my school

by Anonymous (no login)

I went to school in Chicago. I receive invitations to participate in CME's. The most recent was for a business CME through the business school affiliated with the Finch university. I also just received the newsletter and according to Dr. Galinski who I deeply respect over 80% of the new graduates were place in prestigious mult-year residencies. Good job scholl students! I think it may be safe to presume that the numbers were fairly consistant at the other schools? I think the decrease in numbers and increase in numbers at good residencies will help raise the profession. Maybe it would be a good time for some without surgical training to go back and get some? Another suggestion would be to hook up with a more experienced surgeon for exposure. I had three years of residency but I still ask a older colleague to scrub with me once in a while.
Just my opinions-peace to you all.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 4:19 PM
from IP address 64.196.60.2

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No name.

by R. Wilner, DPM (no login)

You did well. One would think that you'd be proud of yourself. Why dont you use a name?

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 2:01 AM
from IP address 67.25.9.132

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Why are you "anonymous?

by R. Wilner, DPM (no login)

MY COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS. SEE BELOW

hat I receive from my school
by Anonymous (no login)

WHY DID YOU DECIDE NOT TO WRITE YOUR NAME? I WOULD BE VERY PROUD TO STATE THE FACT THAT I RECEIVED A 3 YEAR SURGICAL RESIDENCY AND ALL OF THE OTHER FINE THIS THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN. WHAT IS THIS FEAR WITHIN OUR PROFESSION THAT WE CAN NOT WRITE OUR NAMES?
PLEASE HELP ME EXPLAIN. THANKS.

I went to school in Chicago. I receive invitations to participate in CME's.

CME'S ARE PROFIT MAKING VENTURES FOR THE SCHOOLS, THE SOCIETIES, THE APMA, ETC. THEY ARE NOT DOING YOU A "FAVOR" BY SENDING YOU THEIR ADS, ARE THEY?

The most recent was for a business CME through the business school affiliated with the Finch university.

THE PODIATRISTS ARE "CAPTIVE" AND THE SCHOOLS ARE "SELLING".

I also just received the newsletter and according to Dr. Galinski who I deeply respect over 80% of the new graduates were place in prestigious mult-year residencies.

THAT IS GOOD TO HEAR.
Good job scholl students! I think it may be safe to presume that the numbers were fairly consistant at the other schools? I think the decrease in numbers and increase in numbers at good residencies will help raise the profession.

THE SMALLER NUMBERS IN THE PODIARTRY SCHOOL REFECT
THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH COLLEGE STUDENTS EVEN INTERESTED IN THE PROFESSION OF PODIATRY.
WHEN ANY SCHOOL CAN NOT FILL IT'S SEATS, THAT IS A SEVERE PROBLEM. WHEN IT CAN NOT DO IT YEAR AFTER YEAR, THAT IS AN UNBELIEVABLE PROBLEM. WHEN THERE ARE LESS APPLICATS EACH YEAR, FOR 3 STRAIGHT YEARS, THAT IS ALARMNING.

TO STATE THE FACT THAT NOW THERE ARE MORE RESIDENCY TRAINED PODS, AND MORE GET SURGCICAL PROGRAMS IS FINE
AND A GOOD SPIN.

BUT, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, WITHIN THE PROFESSION OF PODIATRY IS P-A-N-I-C .

Maybe it would be a good time for some without surgical training to go back and get some? Another suggestion would be to hook up with a more experienced surgeon for exposure.

FINE. WELL AND GOOD. HOWEVER THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVE PATHS TOWARDS BOARD CERTIFICATION FOR NON SURGICAL TRAINED OR POORLY SURGICAL TRAINED.

THOSE DAYS ARE LONG GONE.

THE PROFESSION HAS CHOSEN TO DROP OFF CERTAIN PODIATRISTS IN THE DUMP.

WAS THIS A "GOOD DECISION" OR "BAD DECISION" I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO THOSE WHO ARE SMARTER THAN I TO DECIDE.

ALL I KNOW IS THAT COLLEGE STUDENTS DONT WANT TO BE PODIATRISTS. PERIOD. THIS IS THE TREND. I AM WAITING FOR PODIATRY TO GET POPULAR AGAIN.

I had three years of residency but I still ask a older colleague to scrub with me once in a while.

IT IS GOOD THAT THE YOUNGER BETTER TRAINED PODIATRISTS STILL FEEL KINDNESS TOWARDS US OLDER
GUYS.

Just my opinions-peace to you all.

PEACE TO YOU.

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 11:25 PM
from IP address 63.215.173.15

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Re: Why are you "anonymous?

by Anonymous (no login)

Why I don't use my name- I don't know really. I don't think I want any of my patients or colleagues typing my name in a google search and finding this web site. I don't think it would be good for business. Every other post is about how podiatry is in a downward spiral towards nonexistence. I don't think that would instill a lot of confidence in a lot of people. Another reason although unlikely- Some people seem to get very angry(even non-podiatrists that post here) and I don't trust them not to be calling my office interupting my busy day to scream at me personally. There is post above in response to Dr. Wiesman where it looks like they are doing searches on him. I do want to help the profession and on a local level I always invite current students and potential students to my office.
I don't mind being offered CME's. I love traveling all over the country it give me a good excuse to spend some money. The one I was refering to costs 2500.00 not too bad considering how much it would cost to get a MBA degree on weekend studies. I don't think I need a MBA but I do feel I need to learn some business skills especially managerial skills. If I was a current scholl student I would try to audit some business classes.
Behind closed doors I'm sure the schools are in a state of panic. I don't know how I feel about this on one hand the fewer students are getting better training but on the other hand fewer students means smaller numbers and we all know what that means. I always thought it was a good idea for all graduates to get multi-year residencies.
Is there that many of us that have been "dumped" by the profession? It doesn't seem like it to me. Even if you couldn't get on staff at a hospital why can't simple arthoplasties, some bunions, tenotomies, simple soft tissue masses be done in the office. You would just need one dedicated room and maybe get that new computer assisted injection system that makes alot of lcoal blocks virtually pain free. Medicare even pays you more for doing stuff in the office.
I exhaust conservative treatment before offering patients surgery and that brings in a lot of my revenue not the one or two surgeries I have a week.
It's not that I feel kindness towards my older collegues when I ask them for help, but rather a immense respect for the work that they do and the ease in which they do it. It's incredible. As far as me being better trained- no that not that's not the case. I also consider this career a lifelong learning experience where you just keep getting better and better at what you do; it's one of the reasons why I wanted to be a doctor.
Again peace to you.

Posted on Aug 18, 2002, 4:31 PM
from IP address 24.92.209.33

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Censorship

by DO MS IV (no login)

Recently, a certain 'doctor' posted a couple of derogatory remarks against osteopathy and foreign medical education while he was, in fact, venting his frustration against other podiatrists who had voiced their dissatisfaction with the podiatric profession. While I have no stake in podiatry and could not care less if it becomes mainstream or disappears tomorrow, I am greatly offended that he had cowardly belittled osteopathy and foreign medical education behind closed doors. Let him go speak to the AOA and proclaim that the D.O. is a second-class degree. Let him go to the AMA foreign medical graduate section and proclaim that they had received inferior medical education off-shore. I doubt this coward of a 'doctor' would have the fortitude when faced by MDs or DOs. When I made a reply directed at him in defense of my profession and foreign MD graduates because they're not here to defend themselves, my post was disallowed. This is typical censorship for you. If the moderator reads this, all I request is for you to be neutral in your judgement. If you will not allow posts that defend absent professions, then you shouldn't allow posts that slam other professions. Nobody outside of podiatry cares how well podiatry does or will do, but please don't take your intra-professional misery and inter-professional jealousy and turn into a rallying cry against other professions that have nothing to do with your future. With that said, this is one soon-to-be DO who will want nothing to do with podiatry when he practices.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 12:19 AM
from IP address 129.120.99.96

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MS 4

by Anonymous 2 (no login)

I hope he got the message. I put together a decent rebuttal against his obviously ignorant stance. I'm considering jumping ship after reading up on DO's.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 3:32 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.60

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Re: Censorship

by Anonymous (no login)

I'm glad the DO profession has you to defend the DO establishment. Thank god you are here.
Why would any one choose DO school or foreign MD school over US allopathic? You don't have to answer if you don't want to I think we all know the reason.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 4:08 PM
from IP address 64.196.60.2

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Censorship

by Anomalous (no login)

I think I know what the poster is "getting at" when he asks why someone would choose DO over foreign or stateside MD school. Grades and MCAT's.

But, the funny thing is, this is exactly why people choose podiatry school over DO or MD school. Grades and MCAT's. And, to say that it's a better thing to choose a foreign MD school over DO school is simply junk. You are guaranteed to find a residency in the U.S. as a DO student and, very likely, in the field you choose. You have much less than a guarantee as a foreign MD student. Even if you do find a residency as a foreign MD student, don't count on it being very good or in an area that doesn't require a weapon to go to work.

And, there are definitely students who choose DO over MD because they want to learn OMM (you'd know what that is if you knew anything about osteopathic medicine) and they like the philosophy.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 11:34 PM
from IP address 64.173.106.210

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re-read the post

by Anonymous (no login)

The question was- why would someone choose DO school or foreign medical school over US medical school? Than I said I think we all know the reason. We are all podiatrists- Get it. Yes I think most podiatry students are there because they could not get into medical school. And yes I also think that most DO students are there because they could not get into medical school. I do have to say however, that a lot of the osteopathic schools are becoming competitive but not nearly as hard to get into or competititve as allopathic schools. That it the truth not a myth.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 4:36 PM
from IP address 24.92.209.33

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Reply to dispel your myth

by DO MS IV (no login)

I chose the D.O. route because I can. Smart Alec reply aside, I chose an in-state D.O. school because I did not get acceptance to any in-state allopathic school. I'm not ashamed to admit that. But then again, I applied when medical school application was at its peak competition so you got to have a bit of luck on your side. My undergraduate overall GPA in biology and chemistry (double major) was 3.86 (3.60 science). MCAT was 34 (12 science, 12 bio, 10 verbal). I'm not giving you my stats to pat myself on the back but rather to dispel the BS myth you implied with your question. Of course there were students in my class who got in with much lower stats (MCAT around 22 and GPA 3.1 for URM students), but then there were other students with more stellar stats than mine that applied to only D.O. school. My education has been quite satisfactory thus far as I had done well on COMLEX and USMLE step I. Coincidentally, are DPM students allowed to sit either for the COMLEX or the USMLE? Only by having passed either of these of these exams do they have the right to even compare themselves to DO or MD students. If I am mistaken please correct me, but I remember only DO, US MD, and foreign MD students are allowed to register for these exams so please, as a DPM or a DPM student, do yourself a favor and don't pretend to know enough to assess the quality of our education because you don't know anything about us. I don't have a problem admitting likewise and let us leave things as they are in two camps - US MDs, US DOs, and foreign MDs comprising the physician camp, and the rest in the non-physician camp (to which DPMs also belong).


PS. I was accepted at Temple University School of Medicine in Philadelphia the same year I was accepted to the DO school. For financial reasons, I chose to go DO and am glad for it. Any more questions?

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 12:14 AM
from IP address 129.120.99.114

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you didn't answer the question!

by Anonymous (no login)

The question was- Why would anyone choose DO school or foreign medical school over US allopathic? I think we know the reason because we are podiatrists and a lot of us choose podiatry over MD because we could not get into MD school or at least in my case thought I could not get into MD school. DO school was out of the question because of the overwhelming vibe in my pre-med clubs/societies that they are quacks that crack backs and manipulate your ribs to cure bronchititis. But that was back in the early 90's and maybe my pre-med advisor perception was skewed for some reason. I admit I didn't even visit a DO to find out for myself. Where i went undergrad at the time if you didn't get into allopathic you went to dental or podiatry school. If I wasn't doing so well in podiatry I would be kicking myself for that. Before you get your nose bent out of shape I do not feel that DO's are quacks and i know that most practice the allopathic way(which is kind of ironic). Now why can't you admit the reality that most of your classmates where there because they could not get into allopathic schools? My sister just graduated from a DO school and has always readily admitted this about herself and her classmates. But she is not ashamed of it, admission to allopathic school is more than just having great grades and MCAT's, the admissions committee has to feel you warrant a spot and this is subjective not objective.
With those grades and MCAT's you shouldn't feel the least bit insecure about where you are, you are certainly qualified academically to go to medical school. Thank god for your profession and the strives that have been made over the last 15 years for acceptance now people like you can be doctors and fill that void of primary care physicians especially in the rural areas. And if you don't take that route and you specialize in a urban area you can do it. I think it's great that DO's have found a way to become just like MD's and continue to raise their standards of admissions, ect...
Now if you respond "I was accepted in out of state MD school but didn't go because it would have cost 40-60,000 more" I'm going to say "huh" because that will blow my mind. Was that the reason?
As far as your comments on the physcian camp non-physcian camp- I propose that there are 2 camps as well the allopathic and the osteopathic. Fortunely for you and my sister the public really doesn't know the difference, but the medical community does!
A far as choosing DO over podiatry for finiancial reasons if you don't end up primary care in a rural area that will most likely be true. I will gross 180,000 this year(3rd year out) not to shabby for just a non-physician podiatrist. And yes the 180 is after overhead of my practice.
I anxiously await your response
your freindly neighborhood podiatrist

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 5:20 PM
from IP address 24.92.209.33

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Re: you didn't answer the question!

by Anonymous (no login)

The question was- Why would anyone choose DO school or foreign medical school over US allopathic? I think we know the reason because we are podiatrists and a lot of us choose podiatry over MD because we could not get into MD school or at least in my case thought I could not get into MD school.

* Of course that is the case anywhere you go. There will always be people who couldn't get in somewhere and matriculate in which ever school that takes them. *

DO school was out of the question because of the overwhelming vibe in my pre-med clubs/societies that they are quacks that crack backs and manipulate your ribs to cure bronchititis. But that was back in the early 90's and maybe my pre-med advisor perception was skewed for some reason.

* I guess I was fortunate enough to have had good pre-medical advisors. My undergraduate alma mater, had a very good track record in sending their alumni to graduate schools mainly because the advisors were so well informed. Students with low probablity of gaining admission to graduate schools were openly discouraged from even applying. Only those with the grades and a remote chance were recommended by premedical advisors with letters of recommendations. Now, in the mid 90's when I applied to medical schools, I initially set my sight on allopathic schools only since I did not even know what osteopathy is about. It was my premedical advisor who recommended that I also consider DO schools, or at the the one in the state. I read the book by Norman Gevitz and the rest was history. *

I admit I didn't even visit a DO to find out for myself. Where i went undergrad at the time if you didn't get into allopathic you went to dental or podiatry school.

* Podiatry schools were not even an option for me. A couple of schools sent me unsolicited application materials. I had nothing against podiatrists but nobody can convince me that a limited medical license makes a practicioner a physician. To me, even the MD is not truly a comprehensive physician license given the fact that most MD's do not learn to diagnose and treat with their hands (at least not as effectively as DOs). If compared side by side, DOs can and do do everything MDs do and some more. Am I proud of this fact? I damn sure am proud of this fact. I have nothing against MDs with that statement since my mother is an MD ob/gyn physician herself. *

If I wasn't doing so well in podiatry I would be kicking myself for that. Before you get your nose bent out of shape I do not feel that DO's are quacks and i know that most practice the allopathic way(which is kind of ironic).

* On this point, I could not agree with you more. Why would anyone limit himself to practicing allopathy when he is granted a license that allows him to do more. I know of DO cardiologists, gynecologists, and pulmonologists who practice osteopathy because they find it a useful adjunct to traditional drugs and surgery. If these highly specialized folks can integrate osteopathy into their practice, why shouldn't all DO's be able to do so is beyond reasoning. *

Now why can't you admit the reality that most of your classmates where there because they could not get into allopathic schools?

* I cannot admit that because I don't read their mind. If they had told me that, I would admit that. Personally, I know a couple of folks who, like me, turned down allopathic acceptance for one reason or another. Would I have if accepted to a state allopathic school? Probably not, but then again, I admitted that too since at that time I did not realize the advantage of osteopathy over allopathy. Now, you could not pay me enough to change my mind about osteopathy. *

My sister just graduated from a DO school and has always readily admitted this about herself and her classmates. But she is not ashamed of it, admission to allopathic school is more than just having great grades and MCAT's, the admissions committee has to feel you warrant a spot and this is subjective not objective.

* That is your sister's experience and if she said so who am I to argue? *

With those grades and MCAT's you shouldn't feel the least bit insecure about where you are, you are certainly qualified academically to go to medical school.

* I don't feel a bit insecure about myself or my future prospect. I only feel annoyed when somebody presumes to know the reasons I chose my profession. *

Thank god for your profession and the strives that have been made over the last 15 years for acceptance now people like you can be doctors and fill that void of primary care physicians especially in the rural areas. And if you don't take that route and you specialize in a urban area you can do it. I think it's great that DO's have found a way to become just like MD's and continue to raise their standards of admissions, ect...

* It is not the higher admission standards that many of us in the profession are worried about. The profession is more concerned about the identity crisis that many DO's face. Many could not perceive that they are licensed to do more than MD's and consequently self-limit their practice to allopathy. That is the real irony. *

Now if you respond "I was accepted in out of state MD school but didn't go because it would have cost 40-60,000 more" I'm going to say "huh" because that will blow my mind. Was that the reason?

* Upon being accepted to Temple University, they sent me a package outlining the projected costs for the whole 4 years of medical education plus living expenses which I calculated to about $160,000, give or take 10K. When the DO school sent me their projected cost, it totalled to about $70,000 give or take 10K. It was an easy decision for me after I have thoroughly investigated the DO profession and its privileges. My choosing the DO profession at the time had alot to do with finance, considering the fact that I still had undergraduate loans around my neck. And before you ask, no I did not ask nor would have I accepted my parents' help in financing my education. *

As far as your comments on the physcian camp non-physcian camp- I propose that there are 2 camps as well the allopathic and the osteopathic. Fortunely for you and my sister the public really doesn't know the difference, but the medical community does!

* There is nothing wrong with two camps in the medical professions: allopathic and osteopathic as long as both camps are playing on an equal field. And yes, the medical community does know, and they have treated us well so far. I don't really care what malignant and behind-closed-door thoughts or insults they may have toward my DO colleagues or me since we are not telepaths with fragile egos. As long as the everyday interaction between DO's and MD's is civil and patient-care focused, I can live with that. Respect comes with time and with the recognition of a person's capabilities, not with a degree. An idiot with a MD degree from Harvard will not be falsely praised for long, and likewise a DO with abilites will not be disregarded. You don't give the MD profession enough credit if you think all the MD's think about is degree. Most really care about patient care and that is the bottom-line, and competent care is competent care, be it given by a DO or MD. Period. *

A far as choosing DO over podiatry for finiancial reasons if you don't end up primary care in a rural area that will most likely be true. I will gross 180,000 this year(3rd year out) not to shabby for just a non-physician podiatrist. And yes the 180 is after overhead of my practice.

* I'm glad to hear you are doing so well. As a DO, I will probably make less than what you're making if I were to become an internist. However, my motive to practice medicine is not primarily money but to make a difference while making a comfortable life for myself and my family. As I said before, I have no qualm with podiatry or podiatrists and it doesn't bother me that podiatrists do well. However, what bothers me is the constant attack on my profession or any other profession with false propagandas and innuendos when you face with podiatric problems. Maligning others might make you feel better about yourselves but this this self-destructive act (because it alienates other medical professionals) will not magically solve your problems. In the end you will be DPM's, nothing more and nothing less, with more or less problems to solve depending on whether or not you choose to tackle them head on or digress by shifting your attention to others. *

I anxiously await your response
your freindly neighborhood podiatrist

* Your friendly neighborhood DO-to-be *

Posted on Aug 18, 2002, 8:36 PM
from IP address 129.120.97.244

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md,do,dpm,dc

by cma (no login)

What is this all about?
I'm a DPM,MD who can't figure out why we are talking about this. DO's are considered mainstream in American Medicine. They are free to apply at any Residency program.
They can become any type of physician they want to be.
DO residencies are considered inferior to MD residencies.
DOs can do an Allopathic residency in General Surgery anywhere they want to.
They can't get a license to practice in Hungary like an MD could. Assuming anyone would like to move to Hungary.

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 5:46 PM
from IP address 209.183.88.109

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What a loaded question!

by DO student (no login)

Why would you ask a question that you have already answer in your own mind? Is any answer going to satisfy or change your view point? What if I say I come from a long line of doctors in my family, MDs, DOs, and DDS? My mother is a DO anesthesiologist. My father is a Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation doctor (MD). It was his sugestion that if I want to get into Physical medicine like he did, he feels that it would be better that I go to a DO medical school. I applied and got accepted to my state DO school and several out of state MD schools. I did NOT apply to any DPM schools. I chose my state's DO school because I want to go into PM&R or family medicine. Any more questions? DO student

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 7:39 PM
from IP address 169.147.155.153

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Yes - we do know the answer!

by Anonymous (no login)

It is the same reason why podiatrist choose the DPM degree over the DO/MD degree!

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 12:40 AM
from IP address 207.73.206.11

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Thank you moderator.

by DO MS IV (no login)

Moderator, thank you for not censoring my post. I feel that everyone has a legitimate right to defend his profession if he believes in it.

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 12:17 AM
from IP address 129.120.99.114

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OIG recommended review to get overpayments

by Anonymous (no login)

Subject: APMA Daily eNews (No. 1,187)

APMA DAILY eNEWS
Wednesday, August 14, 2002 (No. 1,187)

Following a report (eNews 1,150) by the Office of the Inspector General
(OIG) of the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has instructed carriers and
intermediaries to review nail debridement claims this fall. In Medicare
Program Memorandum AB-02-105 on July 31, CMS said:

"The Office of Inspector General has recommended that CMS conduct
medical review in order to identify and collect nail debridement
overpayments. You must periodically perform data analysis to detect
potentially inappropriate billing for nail debridement services. You
must target a medical review probe on specific providers or review
broadly on these services where data indicate the need. Follow the
Progressive Corrective Action process to obtain the corrective action.
Should those efforts result in the medical review of claims you must
recover any inappropriate payments."

APMA will vigorously object to CMS about this initiative because the
vast majority of podiatric physicians provides necessary and appropriate
foot and ankle health care services.

The OIG reported in June that 22.7 percent of reviewed nail debridement
claims did not have adequate documented justification. OIG estimated
$51.2 million was improperly paid for nail debridement in 2000. In
addition, Medicare paid an estimated $45.6 million for related services
that were also deemed inappropriate because the underlying nail
debridement was not supported by the medical record.

APMA Carrier Advisory Committee (CAC) and Private Insurance Advisory
Committee (PIAC) representatives discussed progressive corrective action
during the annual CAC/PIAC meeting last May.

APMA reminds podiatric physicians to accurately and thoroughly document
the medical necessity of podiatric medical services. The OIG
investigation focused on claims that were not supported by the medical
record.


Information in APMA Daily eNews is intended for APMA members and is not
a substitute for professional legal, financial, or medical advice --
coding rules and payment policies in particular can vary from carrier to
carrier. If you do not wish to receive APMA Daily eNews, please inform
the Association by replying to this message. For a free subscription or
to change your e-mail address in APMA's database, please write to
rdpeele@apma.org. Previous editions of APMA Daily eNews are available
at http://www.apma-online.org under "Publications." For other
questions, write to askapma@apma.org.

Posted on Aug 14, 2002, 11:55 PM
from IP address 67.24.14.154

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VERY , VERY, SERIOUS

by R. Wilner, DPM (no login)

Maybe people do not appreciate the seriousness of this to our profession. This means a great number of Medicare Audits. These Audits can be Civil in scope or Criminal.

And all over the cutting of toe nails.

There is NO doubt that medicare does not want to pay for toe nails of any type. What this means in our checking accounts is up to others do estimate.

I would pay attention to this as this is the financial underpinning of the repayment of the monthly student loans.

Maybe there are those reading this post who will say that this is a "negative post" I challenge anybody to read the APMA email blast on the Office of Insprector General mass Podiatry Audits as a Positive.

Once again, this is highly documented, and the documentation is presented right here, on the Podiatry Forum, so that all can read.

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 11:32 PM
from IP address 63.215.173.15

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very serious-for those who fraudently bill medicare

by Anonymous (no login)

Medicare guidelines are very specific when it coes to 11721/11720. If you follow the guidelines and document your findings you have no worries. If however, you bill for toenails that are normal or are fungal but not painful-you could be in trouble. I would say for every 10 patients I see with a chief complaint of fungal nails one qualifies under curent medicare guidelines. So the other 9 pay CASH. CASH is good for any business. Yea out of those 9 maybe only 6 or 7 come back routinely. The others who do it themselves unfortuntly usually are back too at some point with lacerations paronychias ect... Medicare doesn't think about that.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 5:25 PM
from IP address 24.92.209.33

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TUSPM PhD opton?

by Student, New (no login)

Temple has many "second" degree options: MPH, MBA, and a PhD in biomedical science. Is this a viable option? Instead of 4 years I think the combined PhD takes 7 years. Can you use this DPM,PhD to make money? What type of job does a DPM,PhD hold? Are there any DPM,PhD's out there for comment?

Posted on Aug 14, 2002, 8:18 PM
from IP address 66.171.26.90

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TUSPM/PhD

by Anon (no login)

Ask yourself. What would a DPM/PhD actually do in the real world to make money? How about a DPM/anything? As far as I can see, it's a gimmick to get more students interested in applying.

PhD's teach, do research and, if it's in a field of interest like biotechnology or computers, make money. A DPM/PhD might get you a teaching job at a podiatry college (of course, you can get that just by having a DPM). It might get you a small stipend as a consultant at a shoe company. What it won't get you is a glamorous job at a reputable medical school or university. It won't get you a six-figure position at some hospital or corporate entity.

It also might be interesting to mention at a party, but only for about 12 seconds.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 10:43 AM
from IP address 64.173.106.210

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A joke

by Anonymous (no login)

One might argue that one should go for the PhD and ignore the DPM.

Or start Podiatry school next year and perhaps then it might be a private tutorial, one-on-one education.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 5:19 PM
from IP address 67.24.15.1

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I Cant Stop Laughing!!

by realistic (no login)

This is another real funny one! This is not what the profession needs in any manner! Real funny joke buddy when you have a entire profession at stake.

Posted on Aug 21, 2002, 7:29 PM
from IP address 12.72.137.67

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Help...Desperate...Need Advice for Part 2 National Boards?

by Struggling (no login)

I am hoping someone can help me with Nationl Boards Part2. I passed part 1 first time, with no problem.
I failed part 2. Seems I have a lack of proper study material, or test anxiety.

I seem to know my stuff when friends or family members ask me about a problem, I have nailed every diagnosis right on the money, as the podiatrist they went to see came up with the same diagnosis as I did.

But, can't get passed Part 2.

Any help? I have heard of a few study guides, wonder if any of you have used them and where I can get them?

1. Something called Presbyterian Review Course, I heard is very good, where do I find that?

2. The Hershy Manual, heard that is more then is needed?

3. The PI Manual from Tucker,that I have seen advertised.

Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated...as I need to pass this Time.

Thank you in advance,
A struggling guy

Posted on Aug 14, 2002, 5:22 PM
from IP address 205.188.193.168

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Re: Help...Desperate...Need Advice for Part 2 National Boards?

by Trey (no login)

I took Part II boards in May and quite honestly don't remember what was on it. It's obvious that you have taken the test and have most likely been given testlets since you failed. You have more experience than I do concerning the questions since I didn't have to take anymore than the first 90. Go through your sample questions and test outline. I would stay away from Presby since I do remember there being little podiatry on it, and the podiatry that was on it was cake since it was clinical. Although this reply is rather on the common sense aspect, I hope it helps.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 3:23 PM
from IP address 166.90.226.19

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boards 2 study guide

by who cares--this is good 4u (no login)

The way to study for part 2 boards, who knows. When i took them, there were a lot on the tumor stuff.. you have to know that for any podiatry test, and then forget 99% after. Clinical was a breeze. radiology was emphasized. Some medicine too. Need to know some post op/preop tests etc. Shoot. I dont remember. Just do what i did. Don't study for it.
hope this was helpful,
DPM

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 6:10 PM
from IP address 205.188.197.156

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Read Teenie-Bopper Magazines

by Alan Blankenship (no login)

Read cosmo, then seventeen, and follow-up with Young Miss, if you can read and understand these worldy articles then certainly you can master Podiatry "boards" part deux.

Posted on Aug 25, 2002, 12:48 PM
from IP address 134.174.110.5

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RE: Materials for Part 2 National Boards

by Anonymous100000000001 (no login)

I took the Part 2 National Boards back in May of 2002. For me, it was a little harder than the Part 1 because I got more general medicine questions. Some of my classmates got very few general medicine questions and some got a lot more general medicine questions than podiatry. Believe it or not, there is a book out there written for the Part 2 NBPME Boards. The name of this book is called Podiatric Medicine : Pearls of Wisdom by D. Kushner. IT was published in 2001 by the publisher Boston Medical Publishers. You may want to check your podiatry school library to see if they have a copy. It is a questions with answers kind of book that is broken down by subject matter. I used it when preparing for the boards and some of the questions did actually appear on the boards exam. I am not saying that if you memorize the entire book that you will pass the exam. Most of the questions in the part 2 boards are just asking general stuff about podiatry. I know that they would usually ask stuff from Dermatology and Bone and soft tissue tumors seen in Podiatry. For example, I got questions on Ewing Sarcoma and Necrobiosis Lipoidica Diabeticorum. Also, you may want to study up on the Community Health and Podiatry Law as well. They will ask stuff like what is battery and assault. Also, they will ask you under what title act was podiatry included in for medicare or something like that. As for classifications (as you know, podiatry is filled with classifications), I don't recall it asking any classification questions. As for the Presby manual, Podiatry Institute Manual, and the Hershey Manual, they would provide some assistance in the preparation the Part 2 boards BUT THEY ARE GEARED towards residency interviews and Boards exams that are to be taken after residency. I have used the Presby manual and PI Manual in my preparation for my residency interviews. Presby manual is not totally complete and you would need to fill in information that are missing and important. Lastly, there are back test questions floating around amongst the students at the various podiatry schools. So, you may want to ask around. I hope that this helps.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 6:46 PM
from IP address 65.24.8.157

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Correction to my post RE: Materials for Part 2 National Boards

by Anonymous100000000001 (no login)

I made an error in my posting. I took the Part 2 National Boards back in MARCH 2002 and NOT in May 2002. Sorry for the mistake.

Posted on Aug 18, 2002, 10:49 PM
from IP address 65.24.8.157

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Presbyterian Residency Review Manual

by ANONY (no login)

You can obtained the latest version of the Presby Review manual directly from the Presby residency program. They are charging something like 40 bucks to cover the cost of printing and binding. You can try to contact the Presby to see if you can obtain one from them. Usually, there is a 1999 or some older editions floating around in the different schools. In some schools, you might even encounter the 2001-2002 edition, like Temple, due to its proximity to Presby. So, ask around your upper classmen or residents. Good luck and hope that this helps.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 207.166.216.234 on Aug 19, 2002 10:18 PM

Posted on Aug 19, 2002, 8:14 PM
from IP address 65.24.8.157

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Need Part 2 Study Aids too...been out of school a long time.

by sjpod (no login)

Hi,

I too am need of some study material. Unfortunately, I contacted the Preysbyterian Residency & they will not sell me the book. Said it is part of a course that needs to be taken. I have a friend who has an old one 199? or something, however there are many pages missing. Due to personal problems, I graduated several years ago, did not pass Part2, & have not done a residency yet. So have no contact with any schools.

After reading the post here, i wonder if it is even worth pursuing anymore, however I went into Podiatry because that is what I truely wanted to do as a career.
Since i entered & garduated a while ago, it gets even harder for me in my sitaution. Seems no one will give me the time to even talk about it. However I am still determined as that is the way i have always been in my life ( I am older the most of the grads, as i changed careers late in life.)

Would appreciate any assistance in helping me move forward.

Thank you.
SJ

Posted on Aug 20, 2002, 7:13 PM
from IP address 66.203.10.104

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Re:Materials for the NBPME Part 2

by Anonymous100000000001 (no login)

As mentioned in my previous posting, you can check out the Pearls of Wisdom: Podiatric Medicine book. It is a Q & A book that was written and geared towards the NBPME Part 2. You can get the author and publisher info in my previous posting. As for the Presby manual, if the Presby program does not want to sell you their manual. You will basically have to ask around to see if you can get a hold of a different copy of the Presby manual. Good luck.

Posted on Aug 23, 2002, 5:10 PM
from IP address 63.100.48.100

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Shaq's surgery

by Marc Wright, DPM (no login)

I have to say that when I began to read about Shaq's impending surgery on his 1st MTPJ, I fully expected the surgeon to be an orthopod. To my pleasant surprise, it's Dr. Robert Mohr, chief of podiatic surgery at UCLA. I didn't even know that UCLA HAD a podiatry department! He's going to do a cheilectomy (students, look it up).

I don't think I need to point out what excellent publicity this is for podiatry.

Posted on Aug 14, 2002, 5:01 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.60

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Sad reality : (

by AnonPod (no login)

I'm sitting here in front of the computer and have been reading the other posting they're sad and appear to be truthful and maybe sometimes a bit exagerated. There's a lot of bitterness out there and "take responsibility" advice will not solve anything. I take as much work as I possibly can that comes to me and I don't make enough to pay my bills. Monday, I did 6 housecalls at $35 each and I treated 5 residents ($10 each) in a nursing home without air conditioning it was 90F that day and I felt like I was in a sauna in there. Yesterday, I treated 9 patients at my clinic ($25 each) and did 2 housecalls. Today, I did 2 housecalls and have 5 patients scheduled at my clinic. Tomorrow and Friday I have no patients scheduled, so I will do 10 - 15 residents at a nursing home. Saturday, I have 10 patients booked. So my gross for the week will be $1150. This is a good week, last week I made half.

Advertising and promotion programs aren't very effective in my area. A few years ago, a fellow called me about his home hair styling business he said that his business did a minimum of 20,000 home visits and each visit costs a minimum of $50. So his next plan was to give businesses access to his clientele with a home services magazine. I signed up for 12 issues that was for an entire year. During that year I got 10 calls from my 1/2 page ad and did 5 treatments. I was the only one offering home foot care service. 5 visits out of a potential of 20,000 is 0.025 % response. The home hair styling business grew to 20,000 by word of mouth and here I was advertising to these people mainly seniors and women and they weren't interested in home foot care. Rather sad I think. The reason for this low response was that most of the clients who were having their hair done professionally at home was that they were in seniors' buildings and there was someone there providing foot care for $10. So why pay for $35 when someone will do it at your buiding for $10.

Posted on Aug 14, 2002, 2:39 PM
from IP address 65.48.41.73

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Very sad

by Anonymous (no login)

This truely is very sad, for a number of reasons.

It really does sound like you are trying your very hardest to be a chiropodist, and having a tough time of it.

I think there might be more to this than is being posted.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 5:55 PM
from IP address 209.244.80.223

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Sorry, I'm doing what the public wants from me.

by AnonPod (no login)

I'm doing lots of primary care podiatry. Much more than I'd like to do. There's more money in pod surgery except that almost everyone in my area prefers othopods to do it. So what else can I do???

Posted on Aug 30, 2002, 5:02 PM
from IP address 199.243.186.123

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Can I help?

by (no login)

AnonPod,

Please tell me you are practicing in Canada. In my area of the USA, I have only heard of one nurse(RN) try to perform basic foot care for assisted living facilities. She eventually cut a diabetic and it went on to an infection because she tried to treat it with bandaging only, since she can not prescribe antibiotics, give wound care orders, etc. For the sake of the Pt. (not the RN), I hope he healed w/o complications.

But, even she, was charging $40.00 per visit. Just anyone, performing anything beyond a pedicure for $10.00 scares the hell out of me. Again, I suspect you are talking about the situation in Canada. Canada or not, I sympathize with your situation and hope I can help. Please email me with your situation so I can help you get more home care business.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 8:18 PM
from IP address 209.165.125.20

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Need Podiatrist software for billing scheduling

by (no login)

I'm upgrading a podiatrist office they had dos machines and I need to know what the majority of podiatrist are using for medical billing, scheduling etc.
Thanks, Randy

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 12:36 PM
from IP address 198.120.18.36

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Reasons for telling the truth

by Anonymous 2 (no login)

I think that a big reason why some "disgruntled" pods continue to post is because there always seems to be someone who denies their plight or says silly statements like "take responsibility".

This is bound to stir some emotions.

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 12:19 PM
from IP address 63.206.143.81

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Untitled

by Anonymous (no login)

Re posted from another forum:

Anyway, all I can tell you is that there were about 80 grads in my class and I know that at least 15 or so didn't match with anything. I heard many different numbers (up to 25) but I'll admit I don't know the facts.

What I do know is that there were MANY who didn't match with anything (in relation to our class size) and the schools were scrambling to create ANY kind of residency to fill the void. Of course, none of these last minute creations were surgicals (God forbid) and many of them were UNFUNDED! They were all PPMR's and RPR's and some of them were nothing more than vehicles to grease the wallets of the "residency directors". I'm not being bitter here, just telling you the facts. Some of them were just assisting a pod in the office and tooling around in a car to nursing homes to fatten their bank accounts. Totally appalling!

As a side note, I had a friend in my class who didn't match with anything and he was our freakin' class president! He also had a respectable GPA, was extremely well liked and a very hard worker. I eventually lobbied (with some other friends) to have a spot created for him at L.A. County (PPMR) and he did his residency there. He subsequently did a second year in Arizona, which was UNFUNDED! I mean, I'm sorry, this is so incredible repulsive to me that someone will take a resident and use them for labor and NOT PAY THEM ANYTHING!!!!!! This guy was married with two children to support!! Sickening!!! My PPMR at L.A. County was, for all intents and purposes, UNFUNDED! They gave us a "stipend" of 10k a year (while all of the other residents were making about 30k or more). I was a 37 year old podiatry resident, making 10k a year, working 80 plus hours at one of the busiest hospitals in the world AND waiting table on the weekends just so I could pay my f*$#ing bills!!!! Still wondering why I'm a little bitter about podiatry!? I was getting paged constantly while I was serving salads and beer. I had to scrub out early on cases just so I could make it to work on time. It was surreal.

I'm not whining, just venting about one of the dozens and dozens of unbelievably absurd moments in my podiatry career.


__________________

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 1:32 AM
from IP address 67.25.11.16

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Lap Top Computer for Applicant

by (no login)

I receieved the following in the mail:
---------------------------------------

Alumni and Associates
New York College of Podiatric Medicine
53 East 124 St,
New York, NY 10035
212-410-8013

July 1, 2002

Dear Colleague,

Your Alumni officers and board members hope that 2002 is bringing health, happiness and prosperity for you and your family. NYCPM is holding on in these trying times under the able leadership of our president, Mr. Louis L. Levine. Enrollment for the incoming freshman class is at about the same as last year with an expected 80-85 students. We need your help in finding well-qualified individuals for admission. We need as many qualified students as possible in order to maintain our profession. If you know of any applicants please call Lisa Lee at 1-800-526-6966.
Your Alumni Association will still provide a lap top computer for any podiatrist that refers a student who matriculates in 2002. This program was initiated for those who had a student apply after February 1, 2002.

----------------------------------

Your comments?

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 1:01 AM
from IP address 67.25.11.16

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A laptop?

by Anon (no login)



Didn't NYCPM try and recruit students with promises of an MD/DPM degree (oops, I mean a DPM/MD degree)? Even if the MD degree was valid or even usable, it's still wrong on so many levels.





    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 139.137.133.90 on Aug 13, 2002 10:02 AM

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 9:38 AM
from IP address 64.167.78.218

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That is pathetic

by Anonymous (no login)

they should close it's doors if it can't find suitable applicants. Back in 1992 I interviewed there for "practice" before my chicago and phil interviews, they offered my a slot right than and there. I say either merge to up it's image and attract acceptable students or close the doors. Pathetic.



    
This message has been edited by mmez from IP address 139.137.133.90 on Aug 13, 2002 10:03 AM

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 9:44 AM
from IP address 24.92.209.33

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NYCPM

by Anony (no login)

When I applied in 1993, I got offers from NYCPM, Iowa and Barry without even going through an interview.

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 10:26 AM
from IP address 64.167.78.218

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Want proof? Ask for a fax.,

by (no login)

Want proof of this Laptop Computer for an Applicant referral, just email us at info@PeerReview.org.

Want proof of a State Board torturing an outstanding young very well trained Podiatrist, go to www.BrianGale.com. Want proof that the American Podiatric Medical Association supported the torture of the North Dakota Board of Podiatry when they did their "independent investigation" of same in their
"Board of Inquiry"? Go to www.Briangale.com and call Brian Gale at brian@briangale.com.

At the appropriate time, thousands more pages of documents will be placed on his website and other websites. Brian Gale had nothing to hide and still has nothing to hide.

Students and Doctors, all of this can be corrected if the appropriate people gave a rat's ass about the young podiatrists and future podiatrists in this profession.

The motto of Podiatry does not have to be:
"I got mine, f**k you".

Speak up, young podiatrists. The profession you improve is your own.

The Center For Peer Review Justice, Inc.

Disclaimer: I regret that any of my comments might "offend" anyone. I encourage dialog on the facts and issues and would debate anyone on it.

Posted on Aug 13, 2002, 1:05 PM
from IP address 63.215.172.33

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Whats the big deal

by Anonymous (no login)

Ok, forgive me if but what is the big deal with the laptops? WHo cares if the school rewards the alumni. Who better then the alumni (practicing podiatrists) to screen and recommend qualified candidates. This is a great way to avoid the influx of disgruntled md wannabees. These prospective students will have already spent time in a podiatrists office and know what the professions is about. I actually applaud the schools efforts to use alumni in the recruitment process. Would you rather have them wine and dine the pre-med advisors who could care less about podiatry? Let's face it me will always be the ugly stepchild of allopathic medicine. Perks are givin all the time- why not to the loyal alumni?

Posted on Aug 14, 2002, 10:43 AM
from IP address 209.227.6.18

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The big deal

by Anomalous (no login)

I guess the "big deal" is that it appears to be a conflict of interest in a way and also kind of desperate.

Why shouldn't DPM's recommend podiatry school without having a free gift offered to them? Can you see a DPM highly recommending pod school knowing that they'll get this laptop even though they would not have recommended it otherwise? Sort of disgusting if you ask me. You have to ask yourself if there are any other reputable medical schools that offer prizes to their alumni to recommend a successful applicant. Oh, I forgot. They have thousands and thousands of applicants. Strike that. And to think that the school is that desperate to actually offer something of significant value for a single student. Makes it more reasonable to believe that these schools will take anyone who cares to apply.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 3:40 PM
from IP address 64.161.168.60

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Please clarify

by Anonymous (no login)

Does the letter state that is was for referring just one student? Was there more to the letter that we didn't see? Did you post it in its entirety?

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 9:28 AM
from IP address 209.227.6.18

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Hey, you might be right.

by (no login)

I hope that we have an open mind. Maybe the Alumni of the NY College giving Laptop computers to the DPMs who refer potential students to them is a great idea.

Tell you what. Let me PROVE that I have an open mind. You may not know this, but the Center for Peer Review Justice, Inc has a physician database of MDs in every state of the USA. It currently numbers in the tens of thousands and gets larger everyday as communication is the basis of our organization.

The Center also has a database of Dentists, Oral Surgeons, etc.

Would you like for us to put this to a "vote" amoung the physcians in our group? Let us know by private email.

Thank you.

Posted on Aug 15, 2002, 5:30 PM
from IP address 67.24.15.1

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Another big deal

by Anon (no login)

I think another problem with this approach is that it does nothing to assure any sort of "highly qualified" applicant.

Posted on Aug 16, 2002, 9:40 AM
from IP address 64.173.106.210

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It makes Podiatry look like CRAP

by R. Wilner, DPM (no login)

This is a profession so little in demand that the alumni have to give very expensive laptop computers to the doctors as a finders fee?

Why not give the computers to the STUDENTS?

If it was the "thought", then why not give a dinner and honor the DPMs who though enough of podiatry to encourage a college student to become a Pod atudent.


You can't respect a profession that does this.
This is the kind of stuff that makes the Jay Leno show.

Posted on Aug 17, 2002, 12:25 AM
from IP address 63.215.173.67

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