Left--one of my newer bases. Knots not dyed well--as others have been talking about recently and complaining to BA. Large holes.

Right-first base I ever got at convetion. Knots totally invisible. Small holes

BA sometimes says that when they run out of SFS stock they give you French stock. That means my first piece could of actually been French stock. Those with french bases look at the right--is that the same as what you all get? Also can anyone try to identify my real densities? My new stock is too thick for my states and my old stock was much better but THEY ARE ALL STOCK. This is driving me a bit nuts.

What I want to do is order this--DENSITY FROM MY FIRST PIECE ALONG WITH BASE FROM MY FIRST PIECE IN A CUSTOM ORDER......Please help with specs you guys..



OLD DENSITY (NOT AS THICK)



NEW DENSITY (MUCH THICKER)

I don't know how anyone could see the knot bleaching from those photos. Anyhow, just send in your first unit and have it cloned.

The thread is to identify the type of base on the right side in the picture...the knot bleaching part is just part of my description of describing the different bases. I want to know what my first base was.

What does a cloning procedure do?

I was going to tell you to do what John said. Cloning is copying your first piece. Send that one in and they will make you one just like it.

wut up agent, the piece to the right looks exactly like my sfs pieces. and also, gotta comment on the piece to the left. that is a hellalotta glue on that front man. might want to try using thinner layers of glue and letting dry longer. that ultrahold will seep through the holes pretty easily when you use that much glue. anyway, i only order stock and they def. change when i get them. my last stock was something like 70-75% density with a flip up front. i was a little pissed at first (expecting freestyle), but then i realized that i could make it work. anyway, after cutting it down, styling, etc.. it is now my favorite piece. these things are easy to work with, especially since you are young, you can get away with many different styles. i turned this 75% density flip up front into a 65-70% density comb-forward with slight fo-hawk with realative ease. and i love it as well does my wife and friends. ba always says it aint a science and it really isn't as long as you get the blend/color match down i think anything can be obtained with a little practice etc.. as far as unbleached nots on your crown, sprinkle a lil concealer and your good to go. isn't that big of a deal until you can bleach the knots. and since this has been a hot topic and ba has contacted the source, i'm sure the factory will be well aware of this in future orders. later man

Left= French

Right= Swiss

Nevermind about the glue guys--I could of taken that off in a second but that piece got real messed up--so nevermind..

But the smaller holes are on the right so isn't the right the French?

I have 3 just like the one on the left and BA swears they are SFS.

the one on the left (is sfs) i can see the weave pattern,(that extra material before the next hole) and on the right, we have good old french lace, the best in my opinion

one other way to be sure if you have the sfs base,it almost looks like the star of david, the jewish symbol, ba has posted the differance's a few day's ago,check the post out and you can see it up close guyc

more on this, it's under the thread confused between bases. french lace is six sides then joined with a single fillement, sfs, the hole's are perfectly round, joined by double fillement's, thus the french is a smaller weave, and to ba, i hope this post saves you from a headache or 2! trying to explain the difference from the 2 lace's anyway, god bless toplace guyc

Agent you are a complete and utter headache when myself or someone answers you you always want to question it and you always go on and do your own thing anyway, Now listen mate, You had the perfect piece when Debbie cut your first one in at the convention in Minnesota, But you thinking you know better than anyone went away messed with it and now look at your results, Looks like a syrup Fact ! why dont you listen to our advice and our information ? Tell you what mate dont bother asking anymore because if it aint what you want to hear you wont listen anyway.

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, But just to confirm what I wrote above you just dont take a blind bit of notice.
You mate need to chill and look,listen and learn.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/241571/thread/1209085859/last-

Regards BA.

Maybe my eyes need adjusting, but I could swear the piece on the left is French and the one on the right is Swiss.

Agent I gotta agree with BA on this one...those are pretty easy to spot. I don't understand why you just dont send them to debbie if she did a good job the first time.

The pic of your first piece overall had potential--- but it's suffering from the unnatural front-forward type venting that the new factory seems to be doing on some of the freestyle orders. Clone that one and specify to get the direction on the front correct and your problem is solved.

The second one is too dense and the hairline appears too straight across like a bowl.

First, I am not getting into the debate...however, to at least help with the style and cut...

"The second one is too dense and the hairline appears too straight across like a bowl."

Agreed. This can be remedied fairly easily, get a wahl comb n cut, it doesnt cost anything, if you dont have one already, and you dont have to worry about not being a professional, it takes very little off and can help thin out the piece a little, I would run it along the sides where there is larger bulk that your normal sides, and run it over the top.

Also, the pics you first posted from the convention were spot on and amazing, however, afterwards it looks like you fiddled with it because either you had problems with front attaches and didnt feel comfortable exposing or what. Eve that first pic doesnt look the best, it looks like you combed it down on each side to get more coverage of your temples.

Leading back to the second piece, where it shows you have made the front to cover more, but it is too unnatural of a curvature... you can align your template up to the front and using a razor or however you cut your stocks to fit, and add some recession into it....Many guys with full heads of hair have some sort of recession look...

Dont worry, youre still new, and aside from other criticisms, I know it can be hard and frustrating. trying to get answers through the typed word can be difficult sometimes, as much can be lost in the translation, as the more experience of us may tend to assume without realizing it.

DOnt get frustrated, trust the guys with experience, and you will get it with a little patience. ITs not real hair and we are not really professionals in the DIY community, so there is a larger margin of error.

If you duplicate those first pics, not the one posted here where you messed with it, you looked amazing and that look suited you very very well. If you wanted a new look, hey thats fine, I do all the time, and are almost doing it yourself this time as opposed to being in person like last time...they post the pics and heed the advise as best as possible. That piece you have now can be transformed into something great.

Getting the right base is tough, the most natural are prob the skins and the Ilace...might want to try those out if you are having problems with the french and sfs, but remember that while there are pros to each base, there are cons too.

Perhaps try a PSB base, have it made with a small perimeter of sfs, or just the front sfs may be better.

After messing about a bit myself w/the various bases I have settled on the (SFS or French?, no idea) stock units that BA sold in a special around Mar 2007. The trick for me was to get Debbie to cut the bases to a template that I supplied to her. I tried cutting myself, but I effed it up. Thereafter I went to a real hairdresser who cut it in and knew what he was doing. DIY, is great for some, but 'partial-DIY' works better for me.

The confusion was that I kept getting what I perceived to be stock SFS and finally I noticed the bases were different. The SFS is much harder to get exactly right at the hairline and since the holes are larger I feel like it doesn't dissappear quite as well--I think Fred and others would agree here. I tried to correct my template because I felt like it showed my temples too much but I ended up creating a more "unnatural look" since the temples got TOO filled in and created a hairline that wasn't as rounded. However--with my hair over it--it looks decent and would be real tough to get outed with the cut I am displaying now. Also, I keep getting knots that are SOLID BLACK and not DYED--I dunno what is up with the factory--but even on my new piece I can't brush back because the knots are solid.

TO JAKE--Thanks for the post man. I am thinking about sending my first piece for cloning and going back to showing some recession. I noticed on your pieces that you look way more natural because you are showing the recession rather than creating buldging sides to cover the recession and THEREBY creating a piece that does look natural. I think the BULK of the hair and density gets messed up when you have the thicker sides because you get the MUSHROOM EFFECT. However, I DO FEEL LIKE THE DENSITIES ARE DIFFERENT BETWEEN MY OLD AND NEW STOCK--so I take it cloning will get the right density?

I think I am just going to send in my first Debbie piece for cloning--I am not giving up...I guess we are all in an endless pursuit for perfection...I am learning a lot but I got more compliments on Debbie's piece and wasted tons of money trying to enhance it simply because a few friends said "oh you still have recession on that right side" and I let it bother me...Now I feel like Mushroom head...haha...however, I think I can fix this template to what I want like you said JAKE by cutting.

Thanks everyone.

Going to order a clone and sort out black dot issues with John.

dude I learned long ago. you can't ask any questions on here that sound like your questioning ba's bs!! he whines like a girl and starts insulting you. I was actually thrown off of here for asking where my stock piece was after I waited for a month for it. all you need to do is go to coolpiece.com oh and the one one the right is sfs the left one is absolutley not!!

Swiss is softer than french. Simple as. End of.

jaso33: if you are so happy with the hair that you bought elsewhere why do you keep coming back posting your bitterness here ?

One thing that works superbly for me: when I'm unhappy with someone, I tell him personally (in person or by email) without being shy and then it's over, I move on. I don't need a forum to make my personal points.

Go out, enjoy your life and make new friends. Life is way too short and precious to keep showing your unhappiness to everybody.

Hans

Can others post pics of their French bases? I have gotten answers all over the map on what exactly that right is...

AS you're killing me, read my answer. Fact. Plus you've already answered your own question.

That was good snipe you described the softness which wasn't helpful...someone post a picture of FRENCH.

AS, this thread is becoming as drawn out as your other thread regarding the girlfriend & the wax problem.

If your first piece was the correct base then send it in to be copied. End of thread.

When I switched to TL I sent in a very old piece & they copied it exactly & all the pieces I have had since have been the same. I don't know if my pieces are French or Swiss, nor do I care.

BTW, looking at the lower corner of each pic they look the same to me.