I'm feeling a bit of a paradox with ST-30 tape used on an all SFS lace
unit. As I understand things, the main purpose of all lace is largely
to make the unit less detectable to touch, right? But if you use
ST-30 tape on the sides and back, unless you develop rather
specialized techniques, there is going to be a gap between the edge of
the tape and the edge of the unit, as the edge of the tape is
straight, and the edge of unit is curved. This is going to leave a
little flap of lace that won't be tacked down (especially in the back,
where the flap will be even bigger, due to more curvature of the
unit).
The consequence of this is that if someone runs their hands up the
side or back of your head, then their fingers will push up the edge of
the lace, and they will definitely notice it.
So, doesn't using ST-30 like this completely defeat the purpose of
using an all lace unit to begin with? Or am I missing something?
Should instead I be putting the tape on in little strips that run up
to the edge, like in this diagram labelled "Perimeter Bond"?
I'm not sure I could manage this with ST-30 as I find it so difficult
to work with. (Though it's a bit easier now that I figured out that I
should really mush the tape down hard against the lace with the handle
of the scissors before trying to peel the lace off.)
Another question: I've some posters mention that for the front of the
unit, they feed ST-30 into the curve free-hand by peeling a little bit
of backing and mushing, peeling a little bit more and mushing, etc.
The people who do this, how long did it take you to get this technique
down right? I tried, and for the life of me, I don't think I could
ever master this, as I just end up with a tangled mess. Is there a
video that shows how to do this somewhere? Or perhaps if I save old
pieces of backing to put on the front of the tape temporarily, so that
I can use the method shown on MB's DVD for tape that has backing on
both sides?
The ST30 tape is so thin when pressed against the scalp firmly it cannot be felt.
Jrob has video recording equipment and me and him are putting on the convention on in Orlando on June 28th, If time permits I will show everyone how to put the ST30 tape on and also how to stretch it and round it to front contours, To me it is very simple and I cannot get my head around why people find it so difficult.
Mr Burns (Login MisterBurns) Convention Photos and Videos.
Re: ST-30 Paradox?
June 17 2008, 5:37 AM
I've never found this to be a problem - the st-30 is just like a layer of glue.
Just put the tape on your head first, stretch a little. Then peel off the back. Then place the piece on it, and stretch the piece as you need to - there will be no flap.
Right now I'm going going for 2 weeks with ST30 and i-lace hairline.
Just put the tape on your head first, stretch a little. Then peel off the back.
Two problems with this advice for me: (1) How do I stretch the tape when there's backing on it? (2) How do I get the tape to follow the contours of my remaining hair, when the tape is straight, and the contours are not?
The ST30 tape is so thin when pressed against the scalp firmly it cannot be felt.
It's not the thickness that I feel is an issue -- it's the fact that I can't get the tape all the way to the edge, due the the tape being straight and the unit being curved. It's not like blue liner tape, where it comes in contours.
By the way, since everyone agrees that ST-30 is the greatest thing since the invention of paper, why oh why doesn't ST-30 come in contours and with backing on both sides!?!?! Someone needs to call up the manufacturer and make our needs known. (Okay, maybe no one else cares, so my needs known, then!)
Jrob has video recording equipment and me and him are putting on the convention on in Orlando on June 28th
That would be very cool if this were recorded and put on line!
To me it is very simple and I cannot get my head around why people find it so difficult.
Ah, well, to me General Relativity is very simple and I can't get my head around why people find it so difficult. So if someone can explain to me how to use ST-30 properly so that I won't go insane and/or spending all day applying it, I promise not to explain General Relativity to them.
Yes but General Relativity is basically a theory, Applying ST30 is a fact !
Honestly mate get a grip here and use a bit of common, So what if the ST30 tape is straight and the piece curved ? Aint you ever heard of a pair of scissors ? These can be used to cut things into different shapes.
Yeah the tape does have a backing, So you peel it of and apply it to your scalp stretching and curving the tape as you go removing the backing as you go. General Relativity and all that, Einstien you aint mate, Thats for sure.
Actually, General Relativity is no more of a theory than the "theory of gravity" is a "theory", or evolution is a theory. They're all also facts.
Applying ST30 is a fact !
I'm sure it is. Unfortunately, it's a fact that I just don't understand yet, and I've been asking for help.
Maybe MB needs to make an ST-30 video, as I don't seem to have much of a problem following his instructions. Except that when I used Iglue last night, for some reason it didn't stick in the very back of the unit at all. The front and sides worked out quite well, however. In fact, in the front, I can't even figure out where the lace begins at the moment, it's so invisible to both sight and touch. (My stylist left an inch or so of my own hair at the very front.)
Honestly mate get a grip here and use a bit of common, So what if the ST30 tape is straight and the piece curved ?
I believe I mentioned my issue in my original post. Because of the shape dichotomy, I can't get the tape up the edge of the lace, and therefore, there's a flap that's detectable if someone runs their hands up the side or back of of my head. This also means that I can't use it for the front.
Aint you ever heard of a pair of scissors? These can be used to cut things into different shapes.
You mean those mythological cutting devices? Actually, yes I managed to acquire a pair through a shaman I contacted in the mountains of Peru, but I don't see how I could cut the ST-30 lengthwise, as I have enough trouble just cutting it crosswise. The tape sticks to the scissors and the scissors get gummy, and then I have to clean them off with De-Solv-It after even a few crosswise cuts. (Would pre-moistening the scissors with alcohol be a good idea?) When adding this all up, attempting to cut lengthwise to a specific curve seems monumentally difficult. Not to mention that then the tape would end up being a rather narrow sliver, unless I also put another line of tape behind the contour-cut tape.
I did post a link to a document showing how to contour Proflex tape to the edges of a unit, but this method involves cutting the tape into little pieces and putting them perpendicular to the unit edge rather than parallel to it, and and I was advised against this approach in a different post.
Yeah the tape does have a backing, So you peel it of and apply it to your scalp stretching and curving the tape as you go removing the backing as you go.
Well, maybe this has been my issue, as I've been applying the tape to the unit, not to my head. I have a hard time seeing the top of my head, though, as I don't yet have a wall-mounted articulated mirror, and I don't have enough hands to to hold a mirror and apply tape, and I have a hard time seeing unless I apply chewing gum to reading glasses to prop them up high enough onto my forehead in order to see the top of my head, and the chewing gum doesn't stick well enough. Perhaps a bit of ST-30 onto the reading glasses and my forhead will do the job!
But then I'd still have the issue that I have a hard time removing the backing from the ST-30, and that would be even more difficult with glasses ST-30'd onto my forehead and using three hands. Or perhaps I should start removing the backing before I unreel the tape from the roll, and make a little backing tab handle before putting the tape on my head?
General Relativity and all that, Einstien you aint mate, Thats for sure.
Well, if I were Einstein, I'd surely come up with a way of inventing double-backed contoured ST-30. The advantages of that might even rival General Relativity.
Yea, and the really cool thing is that my stylist Betsy will be there with her boyfriend who is a good friend of mine, who also happens to do freelance video production for a living, so I might even be able to talk him into bringing an extra camera and some more lighting to get some REALLY nice video of my full cap cut-in and the ST application and whatever else we decide to shoot.
Wow Darius come one now, as we wear hair, common sense and a bit of instinctive intelligence must also be developed at the same time.
You can't put your tape on the edges of your piece and you need others and a video for that ? How about finding a solution yourself ? That's what I did many years ago and I now do a complete quality attachment quicker than your last long post.
And since I now also use mostly tapes (st-30) on my lace units I'll share with you what many others must have found out: cutting out straight pieces of tape is obviously fine for the straight sides of a hairpiece but as we approach the "curves", you must cut your pieces of tape smaller and smaller so that you can go around by always having tapes on the edges. As a result, absolutely no flaps or uncovered areas must be left out. And you want to peel of the backing easily ? Just slightly overlap the pieces of tape onto one another and it will be a breeze.
You can spend more time writing long novels about it and searching for outside help but really, the real efficient solution is to get off your a__ and get into action about this yourself.
Hans
This message has been edited by Hansmtl on Jun 17, 2008 8:48 PM
Wow Darius come one now, as we wear hair, common sense and a bit of instinctive intelligence must also be developed at the same time.
I guess that money spent on MB's video was a waste of time, since I should have just been able to figure it all out myself?
What's with all this attitude? If people don't want to help, then don't. But why not do everyone a favour and just remain silent then? If, on the other hand, you want to help, then please stop hinting that I'm some sort of idiot, as I guarantee you that I am not.
I'm glad that you have it all figured out. Me, I've been doing this for a week now. As people on this forum recommended, I jumped in to the deep end, head first, and was told that there were people here to help -- not people to tell you that you're an idiot when you don't know how to get something to work.
You can't put your tape on the edges of your piece and you need others and a video for that ? How about finding a solution yourself ?
And you think I haven't tried? That's a rather rash assumption, don't you think?
That's what I did many years ago and I now do a complete quality attachment quicker than your last long post.
And did you work with ST-30 many years ago? Or tapes that have backing on both sides, and come in contours, etc.?
And since I now also use mostly tapes (st-30) on my lace units I'll share with you what man others must have found out: cutting out straight pieces of tape is obviously fine for the straight sides of a hairpiece
And if the sides of your hairpiece aren't straight, then what?
MB's own video states pretty clearly that C contour tape is designed for unit sides, which seems to indicate that I'm not the only one with a unit that doesn't have perfectly straight sides.
but as we approach the "curves", you must cut your pieces of tape smaller and smaller so that you can go around by always having tapes on the edges.
Yes, and this is what I did, but I had trouble getting it to work with lots of small pieces, as the backing was extremely difficult to peel off of small pieces, for one thing. When I posted saying that I had difficulty because of this, I was told by others not to cut the tape into small pieces, but rather to feed the tape from the roll into the contour. But when I tried that, I just ended up with a tangled tape mess. So I went back to the small pieces, and faired much better on getting the backing off the small pieces by rubbing the tape very hard into the lace with the handle of the scissors. But then, for whatever reasons, the tape ended up not sticking to my head!
Look, I've spent entire weekend days fiddling with this, and end up getting unit hair tangled in the tape, tape stuck in my hair, the unit not sticking to my head because of either head or unit hair getting folded under and stuck in the tape and/or apparently using too much Re-Align spray, etc. I was up until 4am on Monday night cleaning my unit and reapplying ST-30 only to have it not stick, and then I was up until 2am last night recleaning the unit and learning to use Iglue, which worked out okay (except at the back). So please don't give me this crap that I haven't been trying hard enough.
I've been working diligently on my own and asking about the things that confuse me, that MB's video didn't answer. I can apply contoured, double-backed tape because he shows how to do so. I can solve differential equations, because I read the text book. But I don't have a text book or a video on applying ST-30.
As a result, absolutely no flaps or uncovered areas must be left out. And you want to peel of the backing easily ? Just slightly overlap the pieces of tape onto one another and it will be a breeze.
The reason for this is that the tape sticks more readily to the tape that's already down, rather than coming up off of the lace, which it is wont to do?
If so, why didn't you just come out with this useful hint, rather than being insulting?
You can spend more time writing long novels about it and searching for outside help but really, the real efficient solution is to get off your a__ and get into action about this yourself.
So, basically, what you're saying is that this forum is pointless, and I should just figure out everything myself, even when I've already tried and had a great deal of trouble.
Yet another novel from Einstien, Look mate nobody made a step by step video for me when ST30 tape come out about 9 months - 1 year ago, I looked at it this way, It is a tape, It is a hairpiece and that tape needs to go on to the hairpiece and scalp so it sticks to my head, What do I need to make this happen and how is best to do this ?
Has that shamen from Peru never gave you instructions on how to use scissors or that bald bloke from Michigan never included applying ST30 in his video/dvd, I guess you will have to wait until we make a online video for you to see how I worked it out, Until then here is a simple suggestion and something even you should be able to work out, Use glue mate, For this you shouldnt need the scissors
I still don't get what's up with this attitude. All I ever said was (paraphrased), "I'm having these problems with ST-30, and I'm a newb. Would anyone care to help with my questions and with the problems that I've faced?"
If the answer is, "Don't use ST-30 if you're a complete newb -- it's too tricky for complete beginners", then so be it. I can accept that answer. If the answer is, "It's really, truly exceptionally easy, but I just don't have the time to make the DVD to show how easy it is, and it would take too long to explain", I can also accept that. If the answer is, "Don't ever let people run their hands up the sides of your head unless you're using glue all around", well, okay then. If the answer is, "Here's my 20 page FAQ on the topic", or "Order this DVD from http://st30Rus.com", all the better.
If instead, the replies are just going to be a pile of ridicule from even the company owner, I could forgo all the the trouble and buy a $39 rug for that.
It seems that the attitude I'm getting is from people who have been wearing for years and years, so of course everything is completely mind-numbingly obvious to you. When you've been wearing for a few days, on the other hand, you're in a foreign land, and everything is strange, unfamiliar, and often frustrating and overwhelming.
You should treat such people with courteousness and respect, because on some other topic, you're the one who's going to be a newb, and what goes around comes around.
Maxx (Login maxx_headroom) Convention Photos and Videos.
Re: ST-30 Paradox?
June 17 2008, 9:50 PM
You can stretch the ST-30 tape on the lace to get very close to the end of the lace even where it is not straight. If you stretch too much it will ripple the lace. I too have a hard time dealing w/the ST-30, but each time it gets a little better. BA's suggestion to smash it helps even more. Regarding not feeling edges - it is a wig - you will feel an edge whatever you use, glue, tape, magic fairy dust.
BA,
Depending upon who you are "theories" are not made up conjecture.
A 'theory' "is an analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another or a plausible/scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena, e.g. the wave theory of light."
However, another definition is an "unproved assumption".
In the U.S. the word 'theory' is used by creationists to denigrate scientific explanations. This makes no sense since scientists use another, equally valid, definition of 'theory' to mean facts. IOW, apples are compared to oranges which is a high school debating technique. This is intentional by the creationists, as they freely admit.
I, for one, look forward to seeing how you apply the ST-30 tape. In "theory" as in "fact".
For any who want to debate if theories describe facts on Earth one way is to jump off a three story building w/o artificial help to keep you from falling to test the "theory" of gravity. You hit the ground you have just proved the 'fact' definition of theory, you fly you have just proved the 'unproved assumption' definition of theory.
"You should treat such people with courteousness and respect, because on some other topic, you're the one who's going to be a newb, and what goes around comes around.
- Darius"
Mate I told it to you straight see here is the problem, You cannot grasp simple instructions,You are trying to come over as you are very intellectual well leave it out fella that dont cut it with applying a hair piece and tape, See its pretty simple and it aint rocket science.
1) If the tape is not the shape you want, YOU CUT IT TO SHAPE WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS, If you dont know how to do that I cannot help you as I aint going to make a DVD on how to use a pair of scissors.
2) Once you have placed the ST30 on your piecee and CUT IT TO SHAPE WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS you remove the backing from the ST30 tape and press the piece and tape FIRMLY to your head, As long as you have cut the ST30 tape to the shape of your piece there aint a problem.
3) If you want to place the ST30 tape on your head and curve it to shape I guess you will have to wait to I make the video because I am pretty sure you wont get it if I try and explain it on here, And to be perfectly honest it is better to actually see it done.
4) I know all about what goes around as it is Gods law of "You reap what you sow" so I will save you the time writing a sermon on it like you do with your posts, Try sowing more efforts into figuring out the best way for you to apply the ST30 tape you maybe suprised what you will reap from those efforts.
Mate I told it to you straight see here is the problem, You cannot grasp simple instructions
What's simple to the expert is often completely non-obvious to the neophyte. I've seen a smart person who's never used a computer before, for instance, pick up a computer mouse and wave it in the air. Before seeing this, it didn't even occur to someone like me, who has been using computers since 1977 that such a misconception was possible. This doesn't mean that the person I was instructing was not listening, or was in any way being dense. It means that they were being introduced to a strange new world, and I no longer had the state of mind to imagine where they might be coming from.
You are trying to come over as you are very intellectual
No, I'm just being myself, and I have a quirky, but never mean sense of humor. And I don't try to come across as an intellectual -- I am an intellectual, and I see no reason to be fake just to make you or anyone else happy. But that also doesn't mean that I think I'm any better than a farmer or an auto mechanic. If you have problems with intellectuals, that's your issue, mate, not mine.
And by the way, I literally do do rocket science for a living, and so I have the utmost respect for those who can master techniques that I find difficult. But don't give me this crap about it all being common sense, or that I'm not paying attention. That's just tripe. Just as much tripe as if I had told the person who waved the mouse in the air that they weren't using common sense.
If the tape is not the shape you want, YOU CUT IT TO SHAPE WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS, If you dont know how to do that I cannot help you as I aint going to make a DVD on how to use a pair of scissors.
It seems to be you who has not listened to me, as I already told you my problem with these instructions of yours. You are talking to me as if shaping this tape with scissors is as easy as cutting shapes in a piece of paper, and implying that I'm an idiot if it's not that easy for me. On the other hand, I have already said that I have problems even cutting the tape crosswise simply, much less trying to shape it lengthwise, as the tape sticks to the scissors and leaves a gummy mess on the scissors on each and every cut. Also, cutting lengthwise would seem to mean that I'd have to hold onto the gummy side of the tape somehow, and then it would stick to my fingers. In fact it does stick to my fingers. I specifically asked if wetting the scissors with alcohol might be a good idea, to help with this issue, but didn't receive a reply. (I've been reluctant to try that as I fear that the alcohol might cause the tape to lose its stickiness, just as when I apparently used too much Re-Align spray completely ruined the stickiness of the tape.)
I also don't see how any amount of shaping via cutting will let me get the tape up to the edge of the lace, unless I cut the tape into lots of small pieces, but doing that was a real bitch when I tried. Maybe you're implying that there's no need or desire to get the tape up the edge of the lace, but if that's the case, then that hasn't been clear at all to me. I've always read that it is desirable to get the tape as close to the edge of the lace as possible and that's why tape comes with C contours for the sides.
Once you have placed the ST30 on your piecee and CUT IT TO SHAPE WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS you remove the backing from the ST30 tape and press the piece and tape FIRMLY to your head, As long as you have cut the ST30 tape to the shape of your piece there aint a problem.
Not merely firmly -- I have to push the unit down very hard onto my head with the handle of the scissors all around. I only discovered this fact via something I dug up in searching through old posts of yours. So, thanks for having posted that, whenever it was that you did. I also discovered via old posts that in order to get the tape to stick to the lace while trying to peel off the backing, I have to use the handle-of-the-scissors mushing trick. But this again is not something I would likely have figured out on my own. I would have worried about damaging the tape or the lace or pushing too much adhesive through the lace.
All these things which might be "common sense" to you with your experience, need to be explicitly spelled out to me, or I just spend hours and hours in frustration, and still it ends up not working.
3) If you want to place the ST30 tape on your head and curve it to shape I guess you will have to wait to I make the video because I am pretty sure you wont get it if I try and explain it on here, And to be perfectly honest it is better to actually see it done.
Okay, then I patiently await.
4) I know all about what goes around as it is Gods law of "You reap what you sow" so I will save you the time writing a sermon on it like you do with your posts, Try sowing more efforts into figuring out the best way for you to apply the ST30 tape you maybe suprised what you will reap from those efforts.
I don't know where anyone is getting the misconception that I haven't spend many, many hours trying my best with ST-30, and spent even more hours digging through all the archives to glean as much as I can before asking questions. I've even been compiling an ST-30 FAQ, with the intent of turning it into something postable, if I find the time. I'm also willing to spend many more hours to master the ST-30 techniques, if I can find instructions that work for me, and don't just state exactly what I've already tried and failed at, without providing any additional information other than to use "common sense".
Here to help
Thanks for the more detailed and patient instructions.
1) If the tape is not the shape you want, YOU CUT IT TO SHAPE WITH A PAIR OF SCISSORS, If you dont know how to do that I cannot help you as I aint going to make a DVD on how to use a pair of scissors.
So, I've briefly attempted this again after thoroughly cleaning my scissors, and think I might be able to accomplish this now. The barriers I had to succeeding at this the last time I tried it were
(1) That my scissors had accumulated too much ST-30 gunk. Cleaning them off thoroughly with De-Solv-It, rather than just alcohol, seems to have made this situation much better.
(2) I was worried about accidentally cutting the hair on the unit and it was hard to get the shapes to match from afar, but I've since acquired hair clips, so I can use those to keep the hair out of the way. Or I can make a template of some sort for the purposes of shaping the tape.
(3) The last time I tried this, I was sure that I was supposed to not touch the sticky part of the tape, as seemed to make it less sticky, but there was no way I could accurately shape the tape without touching the sticky part. But I've since learned how to mush the tape into the lace using the handles of the scissors, so I think that this might no longer be a problem. Another reason I was concerned about making the tape less sticky by touching it was that I couldn't get the backing off of the tape, no matter how hard I tried. Instead the tape would just come off the lace instead instead of the backing coming off the tape. But since learning of the mushing technique, I probably don't have to worry about touching the tape so much, as now I am able to get the backing off. Also, buying a better pair of tweezers helps a lot. I was previously using hemostats as recommended in MB's video, but hemostats don't seem to be up to the job of removing ST-30 backing. (And certainly not without the mushing technique.)
(4) When I first tried this, I had trouble getting the tape to stick securely to my head, but I hadn't yet learned the pressing down hard onto my head with the scissor handle trick, so I was sure that less tape (caused by cutting off significant amounts of it) would result in even worse attachment. Now that I know how to get a secure attachment, having less tape on the sides probably isn't an issue?
(5) I know there was something else, but it's late and I'm going to sleep now.
"The fact that the equations of relativity are strongly supported by experimental evidence is no grounds for accepting the validity of the theory"
You can also say the same thing about the theory of gravity or that water is H2O. General Relativity is on as solid ground as any science (or putative facts of any kind) ever gets.
- Darius
This message has been edited by Darius99 on Jun 18, 2008 1:03 AM
You can stretch the ST-30 tape on the lace to get very close to the end of the lace even where it is not straight.
And you do this by pulling the backing off as you're applying? I tried this, but ended up with just a tangled mess. Practice, practice, practice? Or are there some other tricks involved? I was thinking of trying to use extra pieces of "pre-owned" tape backing to make my own double-backed pieces of ST-30, so then it could be applied sort of as MB shows in his video. Does this sound like a good idea, or a recipe for more tangled messes?
Regarding not feeling edges - it is a wig - you will feel an edge whatever you use, glue, tape, magic fairy dust.
So, given that you must never let anyone run their fingers up your head, rather than down it, is there any reason to use all lace units, rather than the kind that has the "thin skin" perimeter, or what have you?
I.e., the thin-skin perimeter makes attachment and cleanup easier, right? Would it also make detection via sight or touch more likely than with all-lace?
I can think of at least one reason that one might want to stick with all-lace: the ability to cut the unit down if desired. But that would seem to typically be less important that security of attachment and ease of cleaup.
I dont hold to the belief of Maxx that you will ALWAYS feel a edge, If you get it down firmly and correctly it is very difficult to find the edge, You have to really dig for it yourself so someone running their hands through your hair aint got any chance of feeling it.
I dont hold to the belief of Maxx that you will ALWAYS feel a edge, If you get it down firmly and correctly it is very difficult to find the edge, You have to really dig for it yourself so someone running their hands through your hair aint got any chance of feeling it.
So, I can kind of get near this level of undetectability with Iglue at the moment, at least in many places. (I still seem to end up with areas where I end up with a flap that would be detected if someone ran their hands up through my hair and push on the flap. The reason for this is probably the unit being glued on slightly crooked and then one side of the unit is glued a bit onto hair rather than scalp, which doesn't stick as well and ends up becoming a little flap.
With ST-30, however, I'm no where near this level of flaplessness. Not even a bit remotely. Even with my best attempts with ST-30, I end up with tons of flap, which is why I've been asking so many apparently annoying questions.
maybe you should just go with the site you posted, honestly, if you can't use a pair of sissor's and don't understand how to cut a piece of tape,there is something not wrong
This message has been edited by weaselpotpie on Jun 18, 2008 2:19 AM
I've never come across anyone on this forum who's had so much trouble getting a basic attachment, especially regarding ST30 which has been written about & analysed so many times before.
How are you going to cope with the ongoing maintenance such as red tones & shedding when they arise if your'e already having major problems just sticking it on your head?
This thread overtakes those of grafted/mathcat by miles.
There is just one question though, out of intrest is your piece a Toplace?
I've never come across anyone on this forum who's had so much trouble getting a basic attachment, especially regarding ST30 which has been written about & analysed so many times before.
And how would I find all those analyzes and write-ups in an easily digestible fashion? If you search for "ST-30", you get a gazillion hits, which I've skimmed through and compiled a small encyclopedia of contrasting methods and opinions on how to best apply it. Unfortunately, most of the explanations are elliptical, because they're the middle of active conversations that have gone on for months, and they disagree with each other. Few of them talk specifically about the issue of getting the tape all the way to the edge. (I'm not saying they are not there, but find the needles in the haystack is at this point rather difficult. At one point a video was posted to YouTube, according to my personal archive, but the video seems to be no longer available.)
How are you going to cope with the ongoing maintenance such as red tones
(1) I have a stylist who knows how to deal with these all these kinds of things, but she doesn't know how to use ST-30. The next time I see her, I'll be sure to ask if she has any additional advice for me.
(2) I have the special shampoo/dye stuff that everyone says is supposed to help with this.
(3) By the time I have to worry about this, I'll probably have at least ten or twenty times the experience I have now. And experience makes all the difference in developing the "common sense" needed to deal with these sorts of things. Though I'll probably also have made plenty of mistakes and learned from them.
(4) I don't have problems sticking the unit on my head if I use MB's videos. He doesn't show how to use ST-30, however.
(5) I don't have terrible problems using ST-30 (though I do still find applying it to be minor ordeal), if I don't care about getting the tape up to the edge.
(6) It's a matter of public record in the archives that many people have had a lot of issues learning to use ST-30. Why would anyone here expect a newb to get it right off the bat without help?
(7) If people would treat other people who have questions with respect, even if the answers to those questions might seem obvious to some, then there won't be flame-wars, which just uselessly extend the conversations in an unproductive manner, make the archives more difficult to search, and annoy everyone. If someone is going to give me attitude, however, then I'm going to give them attitude right back. Cheers, mate.
I think the problem is Darius you seem a little overwhelmed with this ST30 tape and to a point that is understandable as you are new to this game, But mate please listen to what I am trying to tell you.
It aint rocket science fella, And when you do take time and stop to think you will see that you will be able to work it out using simply logic and common sense. Sometimes without being in the room there with you we cannot explain it in specific detail, So we urge you to work it out as really it is quite simple, Once you have it you will think, "Well now I see how easy it was and what the fellas on the forum were saying" We dont have a video yet to show you, But like you I was new to ST30 tape when I first got it, Everyome was, But I can tell you 99% of the blokes who do use ST30 tape have found the best way of applying it by working it out for themselves as like I said there is no video yet and explaining it specifically in words on a forum can only help so much as it is a case of try it and see what works best for you.
It is probably a bit overwhelming to you to do the attachment yourself.
Considering you have to make sure of good attachment, blending, color what will people think?
I would suggest that when trying new tapes or other products that you do a bit at a time.
Try just taping the back for a while and glue the rest until you get used to the feeling
of wearing hair and how long the attachment will last. Then as you get more experience you will find the best way to tape more of
your hair. If you then make a mistake you can go back to the old way that works. Hey, I remember when I first got contact lenses, it took me a long time to get those in my eyes.
Now I put them in without thinking.
BA is right, it is only hair on material and not rocket science. But when it comes to our appearance, it is a big deal.
Darius,
If you are going to be truly "self contained" in doing your own attachments, you absolutely must have;
1. a magnifying lamp at least 5X power magnification
2. a styro head
3. "t" pins
4. Exacto nife
5. cuticle scissors.
With the 5x lamp you will get the tape spot dead on the edge. To cut the tape, get a piece of white construction paper and trace the frontal edge of an existing unit. Then run scotch tape over it (the construction paper) numerous time until it is somewhat stiff. Trim according to your trace line. Then take your chosen contour of ST30 and attach it (do not remove any of the paper sections from the tape) to your just made frontal template with one paper clip (the small black clips work the best). Line up the center of the tape to the center of your unit. Flip the template over and you can now see how much of the tape you need to trim as it will overhang the template. Using the cuticle scissors and under the maginifying lamp, you will get an exact cut to match your frontal. Works like " down town" . Always, always use the lamp to get perfect placment of the tape.
Thanks for the detailed instructions BeenThere. These are instructions that I can understand, as it sounds just like making model rockets when I was a kid!
I have a couple of questions:
(1) By "magnifying lamp", you mean one of those things that's like a giant loupe?
(2) When clipping the tape onto the construction paper template, do I put the sticky side down against the template or put the paper side against the template. I'm guessing the paper side against the template, as it otherwise the tape is likely to get stuck on the template. But then again, my common sense told me not to touch the sticky side of the tape with my fingers, but apparently it's common sense that that's what you have to do to shape the tape with scissors.
Hey, BA, even rocket science isn't rocket science when you've been doing it for a long time. I can guarantee you, however, that even the most obvious things to an expert are rocket science to a neophyte. I know this for sure from years of dealing with bone-headed computer users. They do the stupidest things! Or so it seems to me. But I just patiently explain to them over and over again my "common sense" until it sinks into their common sense.
It's like riding a bicycle or learning to swim. How could anyone not know how to ride a bike??? If you know how to do it, it's the simplest thing in the world. If you haven't done it before, you keep falling on your butt.
Well, I persevere at everything, until I succeed, but sometimes I fall on my butt when doing something new. Unfortunately, with the hairpiece game, I can't afford to fall on my butt, 'cuz if my hairpiece fell off at work, for instance, then I should have just shaved my head instead.
For important computer servers, we say, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people." The reason for this is that it's better to ask a "stupid question" than accidentally erase an important database. It seems to me as if it should be that way for new hair wearers too.
Or if you want to put a new roof on your house yourself, it's not rocket science, but you better educate yourself on the issue thoroughly before climbing the roof and hammering down shingles.
These are facts about ST-30, for instance, that were not obvious or "common sense" at all and that I only figured out because I asked, or managed to locate it in archives, or discovered on my own after a fair amount of trial and error:
(1) Needing to push very hard on the tape with the scissor handles in order to secure the tape onto the lace. Otherwise, the tape remains attached to its backing more strongly that it remains attached to the lace.
(2) Needing to push very hard on the unit with the scissor handles while the unit is on the head in order to secure the tape onto head.
(3) That's it's okay to touch the sticky side of the tape. In fact it seems to be required in order to contour the tape with scissors.
(4) Needing to frequently clean the scissors with De-Solv-It in order for the tape not to stick to the scissors.
(5) Using Re-Align other than very sparingly apparently ruins ST-30.
(6) Needing to use tweezers rather than hemostats to separate the backing from the ST-30.
(7) Needing to wear a bandanna when sleeping so that the back of the unit doesn't get unstuck at night.
(8) Needing to soak the unit in De-Solv-It for a while before attempting to remove tape from the unit, so that you don't pull hairs out of the unit. Alcohol alone is not enough.
Here's another "common sense" fact that had been holding me back: When people say to clip your hair back or the unit back, they mean that you should use "sectioning clips", not "banana clips", although I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually state this explicitly.
After finally remembering the existence of sectioning clips (which I haven't had much use for in my life until now), some things are much easier because banana clips really suck for this purpose.
Maxx (Login maxx_headroom) Convention Photos and Videos.
Re: ST-30 Paradox?
June 19 2008, 5:32 AM
I think that the solution to your ST-30 tape attaching hassles ARE on MB's video.
Just take what he does with putting the tape on and apply that to the ST-30 tape. The only difference is to stretch it a bit and push down.
Another thing is if you do not get the ST-30 tape going well or it wrinkles take it ALL off and start again.
I know a bit of what you are going through. I must have wasted an entire roll of ST-30 before I got the hang of it. It still is a pain for me as it wants to stick to my fat fingers more than anything else.
BA's tip of bending the end about one half inch in to pull that part up helped me a lot. Once you get that part tacked down (as MB does in his video w/'normal' tape) the rest will be freed up for you to slowly tack down and you can stretch it as well as getting close to curved edges.
Last tip - do a skin test by sticking the tape to the inside of your elbow and leaving it there for 48 hours. Some (me) have had allergic reactions to some batches of ST-30 tape.
I give up with trying to explain to this bloke, I am begining to belive the blokes on a wind up
Actually, I'm doing quite fine, thank you, as despite getting a lot of attitude from some people, other people actually take the time to answer my questions in a way that I find very helpful. And some of my other questions can be found via digging a lot through the archives.
Not only that, but as you see, I've been compiling a list of tips that may then be useful to other people.
"By the way, everyone should read this before ever posting anything on the internet: http://xkcd.com/438/
Be sure to read the mouse rollover pop-up text.
- Darius"
man with all these lengthy posts by Darius Iam thinking of putting it together and publishing a book called "the paradoxical relativity of st-30 tape applied to the scalp"...that should be a top seller.
I am thinking of putting it together and publishing a book
Certainly a FAQ or video would be useful to many people, as many people find ST-30 difficult to work with at first. I think the archives bear me out on this one.
Darius have you tried the stretching method of the tape? im too tired to read thru this whole thread. But thats how most people use the st30.
you tack the tape down on ur scalp.. but u leave the tape in tact on the roll. So your basically holding the roll in ur hands.. then u peel the backing to expose the tape. as the tape is being exposed u stretch it a little bit and keep tacking it down. It will become obvious when you do it, u cant really stretch the tape when the backing is on, so as ur peeling the backing off, there is just exposed tape that u have control over by having the roll in your hand.
about applying the tape to ur front edge. I really dont like the idea of trying to trim the front edge when its on the unit. Ur bound to accidentally cut the lace or hairs after awhile.
Darius have you tried the stretching method of the tape?
I've tried stretching it while applying it to the the unit, not while trying to apply it directly to my head. The problem I had with stretching while applying to the unit is that I'd eventually get my fingers stuck on it, and then I'd end up with a tangled mess.
I know that the answer it probably, "practice, practice, practice", but I'm not sure how to take that advice at the moment, since if I screw up the ST-30, I have a hard time removing it without also removing hairs from the unit. Neither 91% alcohol nor Everclear seem to be quite up to the job. (Maybe I need to get some 99%, but I haven't acquired any yet.)
I am able to remove the mess with De-Solv-It, but then I have to wash and dry the whole unit, and that's a whole 'nother hour down the drain.
Any advice on how to remove the ST-30 safely from the unit without De-Solv-It would be appreciated.
If I try the directly-onto-the-scalp method, I guess I won't have to worry about damaging the unit as much, which is a plus. If I screw it up, I can just pull it off my scalp which is a tad bit sturdier than a lace unit.
im too tired to read thru this whole thread.
That's probably all for the best. Get Monty Python's Argument Sketch and watch that. It's far more entertaining.
you tack the tape down on ur scalp.. but u leave the tape in tact on the roll. So your basically holding the roll in ur hands..
I'll see if I can give this a try. I have a hard time doing precision work on my head, as I don't yet have one of those mirrors that extends out from the wall so that I can see the back of my head and still have both hands free.
Also, I'm far-sighted, so I need reading glasses to see things that are up close, but it's a challenge to see through the reading glasses when your looking at things that aren't straight in front of your eyes. I improvise using chewing gum or masking tape to hold the glasses higher up on my forehead in order to see better, but it's more than a bit cumbersome.
This problem doesn't really bother me too much in applying Iglue all around, since I can do that with one hand, while moving a hand mirror around with the other, so that makes the vision problem less problematic.
about applying the tape to ur front edge. I really dont like the idea of trying to trim the front edge when its on the unit. Ur bound to accidentally cut the lace or hairs after awhile.
Someone else kindly mentioned that they have made a card-stock & scotch tape template that they use for trimming the tape to the front contour. I might give that a try next time. It sounds like a lot of work, but if one gets a two week hold, then it might very well be time well-spent. Modulo the problems I have trying to cut ST-30 accurately without it sticking to my scissors, this solution might work better for me, as then I don't have to worry about being far-sighted.
Thank you for your carefully considered advice! I'll have to try it.
- Darius
This message has been edited by Darius99 on Jun 20, 2008 12:33 AM
I am actually surprised here, at some of the hostility faced by Darius!
I have found all his questions to be rational, and when appropriate, the responses have been genuinely helpful.
I too have struggled with ST-30 and I sympathise.
Ba, you are still a hero among men, but I think on this one, you have treated the lad a little harshly - I think his posts have been fair for a newb (as I am too)
- Just my two cents -
Now if someone would start up as diligent a thread as this on my other bugbear - cleanup ....
S/t I have no trouble w/it and other times like today it just is one pain in the butt. I probably wasted a good one half foot of it.
For me the bottom line is if it does not work then stop and remove it from the lace and start over. BA and others' suggestion to peel back and stretch helps. It is not that hard to remove from lace and hair if just a little bit of it is stuck.
I do not think that you can handle it (or at least I cannot handle it) like NRT tape. One has to apply it a bit at a time, whether that is to the scalp or the wig. I put in on the wig, and as I said above I use MB's technique that he shows in his DVD for applying tape as close to the edge as possible, but add the slight stretching that one can do w/ST-30.
I find that if one uses the peeled off backing of another tape to cover the exposed part of the peeled back tape this keeps the stuff off of your fingers and the wig hair out of the ST-30. This is when applying to the wig. You can also then press down on the ST-30 to 'smush' it more.
With stretching a bit and pressing this ST-30 can free you from using glue or a very very minimal amount at the front (like 1/16"). When removing it if I load up on alcohol (91%) and WAIT five minutes or so it comes off fairly easily, too.
I was not at all sold on this ST-30 at first. I just tried it again since so many were having success w/it. It ain't perfect, but it is better IMO than the other options. E.g. I really do not like glue, but it does look the best. ST-30 give me about 90% of the look of glue. If I want to go completely full comb back then some Basebond in the front 1/16" will allow that for a day or two.
"Ba, you are still a hero among men, but I think on this one, you have treated the lad a little harshly - I think his posts have been fair for a newb (as I am too)"
Mate if somebody cannot work out you need scissors to cut tape into shape, Well sorry fella I cant help them and it is pointless for me to try. Who taught me ? Errr yes myself and I didnt have to post on any internet forum to realise I need a pair of scissors. Like I said I started to belive the bloke was on a wind up.
"Ba, you are still a hero among men, but I think on this one, you have treated the lad a little harshly - I think his posts have been fair for a newb"
Kojak Mcfee, Darius has never mentioned his age.
His posts have some similarity to another joker last year who called himself 'dingle mcwingle', he also asked about tapes.
Mate if somebody cannot work out you need scissors to cut tape into shape
I understand that I need scissors. My scissor skills with gummy, sticky tape material are seriously lacking though. I will practice and/or try an exacto knife. Also, other people were saying not to cut the tape to shape, but rather to bend the tape to the contour. I also had no luck with the bending approach. And when I screw up, I end up pulling hairs out of the unit when removing the misapplied tape, so I can't afford too much trial and error without ruining my unit.
Darius just a tip. I think its better to write your precise question as swiftly and to the point as you can. You will get better answers and more straight info to ur problems. I think the problem with this thread is no one wants to read 100000 long ass posts. Everyone is missing the message. I have made this mistake time and again in the past. and realized the shorter and more concise your question is the better the feedback will be.. Everyones long posts are turning into bla bla bla bla bla for me.. going off in wild tangents with Mr max explaining scientific theory lol.
again my opinion is to try it on your scalp. It might be easier.
There one point u made which i read and agree with. .
"oh why doesn't ST-30 come in contours and with backing on both sides!?!?"
I honestly think they should consider making contours.. cause cutting and all that stuff is annoying sometimes.
MAX.
A theory is based on strong scientific facts etc you are right. but its still a theory. even if it makes 99.9 percent sense and holds up. There might be a time where the theory will have to be re-analyzed and evaluated. saying that falling off a building proves gravity as fact is overly simplistic and thats not at the heart of what gravity is. Gravity is a theory about bends in dimensions people do not even understand yet. its about why things fall not about just them falling.
ah i just wrote a long ass post myself hahah.. i contributed to the BLA BLA BLA BLAAAAAAAAAA
This message has been edited by Xeon005 on Jun 22, 2008 3:08 PM
A theory is based on strong scientific facts etc you are right. but its still a theory. even if it makes 99.9 percent sense and holds up.
Okay, short and to the point: All theories are models and models are approximations. All alleged facts are just approximations too. Or even worse, just widely accepted opinion. Consequently, well-founded scientific "theories" are just as much fact as any other so-called fact.
"Ba, you are still a hero among men, but I think on this one, you have treated the lad a little harshly - I think his posts have been fair for a newb"
I also told Darius and everyone I will try and make a video at The Orlando convention next weekend to demonstrate with the ST30 tape, That dont sound treating someone harshly to me, Now does it ? See at times some people ask for my advice but only read what they want to hear and not what I am actually saying
Internet stuff in general is great. However, as we all know it is also easy to misunderstand one another via typing. One can clear up a lot of things quickly in personal communication/videos. E.g. MB's video effectively IMO wiped the 'magic' away of attaching wigs and along w/Coolpiece, BA's/Mike's forum trashed the HCM/Farrell business model for those who stumbled upon it and read it.
I would also welcome an ST-30 tape video. Although I now like ST-30 and can get it to work I am sure that others are doing it better. Thanks again BA, or as my granny would say 'Tank you, tank you very much'.
