As you can see, the batch 2 frigates are obviously larger. I don`t know about her classification. I think it`s most prolly a normal frigate as opposed to a light one. Tonnage, not sure. Prolly around >2500 tons(my estimate). Also, she would have a new sensor suit(ADJ) but weapons are the same. She carries more sea-wolfs though - 16. And there`s more space in the centre weapons plat-form for larger weapons. Imo, it appears rather tight with the batch 1 frigates. PErhaps, Exocet Block 3 missiles. LAstly, she`s sleeker and stealthier. Yes. According to your admiral, you`ll be getting two more in the next Malaysian military plan bar any problems.
Interestingly, according to your admiral, Malaysia does intend to procure medium range-long range anti-air naval weapons - type not sure. Im not sure when though and she needs the right plat-form to carry them.
The second picture is actually the model for the third picture which is KD JEBAT with pendant number "29" @ Lekiu batch I. The other ship is KD Lekiu (30).
FYI, Lekiu batch I is carrying 16 Seawolf missiles.
Lol. that was just a model made by BAE of the block 2 frigates. They have`nt placed the order for the block 2 frigates, hence they would`nt know the exact pennant number.
Don`t you see the physical differences on that model vis-a-vis the Block 1 models? Look at the placement of the vls cells. That`s an upper deck on the raised weapons plat-form. And that plat-form is larger. Also, unlike the block 1 models, it`s flushed and smooth. In addition, there are 16 vls cells as opposed to the 12 vls cells on the block 1 frigates.
No. block 1 frigates carry only 12 sea-wolfs vls. I think many Malaysians mistake it for Brunei`s Nagam Rajah corvettes which do carry 16 sea-wolf missiles.
------------------------------------------------------
LEKIU CLASS FRIGATES, MALAYSIA
The Kapal DiRaja Lekiu and Kapal DiRaja Jebat frigates were commissioned into the Royal Malaysian Navy in March and May 1999. The Malaysian Ministry of Defence placed a contract on Yarrow Shipbuilders (now BAE Systems Marine) in Glasgow for two light frigates of the Frigate 2000 design. The first ship, the Lekiu (30), was launched in December 1994, with the second, the Jebat (29), following in May 1995. The Jebat carries the lower pennant number to signify the seniority of this ship, which accommodates the Admiral of the Royal Malaysian Navy.
COMMAND AND CONTROL
The ship is equipped with the Alenia Marconi Systems Nautis F combat data system. A Radamec Series 2000 Optronic Weapon Director is installed on the roof of the bridge and the ship is also equipped with a Type V 3001 thermal imager from BAE SYSTEMS.
MISSILES
The frigates’ anti-ship missile is the MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale) MM40 Exocet Block II. The two four-cell launchers are installed in the midship section between the two radar masts. The launchers are installed at a fixed angle of elevation, in a crossed configuration, one facing port and one starboard. Range and bearing data are downloaded into the missile’s on-board computer. The missile uses inertial guidance for the cruise phase of the trajectory and then active radar homing by active monopulse seeker head. The sea-skimming missile approaches the target at high subsonic speed, 0.9 Mach.
The MBDA (formerly Matra BAE Dynamics) Seawolf short-range missile provides protection against supersonic aircraft and anti-ship missiles to a range of 6km. The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge. The missile uses a microwave link command-to-line-of-sight guidance system with television and radar tracking. A solid fuel propulsion rocket provides a speed of Mach 2.5.
GUNS
The ship’s main gun is the Bofors 57mm gun that fires 2.4kg shells at a rate of 220 rounds/min. The range of the gun is 17km. Two MSI 30 mm guns fire 0.36kg rounds to a range of 10km at a firing rate up to 650 rounds/min.
On the raised deck at the level of the roof of the helicopter hangar are the Whitehead 324mm B515 triple tube torpedo launchers for lightweight anti-submarine launchers.
HELICOPTER
The ship is equipped with a hangar and a helicopter deck with a single landing spot to accommodate an AgustaWestland Lynx helicopter. The 310m° landing deck is also capable of supporting a larger helicopter.
COUNTERMEASURES
The ship carries the Sea Siren towed torpedo decoy supplied by BAE Systems. The decoys are controlled over a serial data link to decoy passive and active homing torpedoes. Super Barricade twelve-barrelled chaff launchers are installed on both sides of the ship just forward of the helicopter deck. The frigate is fitted with BAE SYSTEMS Mentor electronic support measures (ESM) and Thales Defence Scimitar electronic countermeasures (ECM) systems.
SENSORS
The surface search radar, the Ericsson Sea Giraffe, operating at G and H bands, is positioned high on the main mast. Thales Nederland (formerly Signaal) DA08 air search radar, operating at E and F bands, is installed on the tower to the aft of the main mast.
Two BAE SYSTEMS 1802 fire control radars, operating at I and J bands, are installed one on the roof deck of the hangar and one on the roof deck of the bridge. The ships’ I band navigation radar is supplied by Thales Defence.
The hull mounted Spherion TSM 2633 LF sonar, supplied by Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar), operates at medium frequency around 7.5kHz. Spherion uses a spherical acoustic array and provides long-range active sonar for search and attack mode in anti-submarine warfare.
PROPULSION
The propulsion system is in a CODAD combined diesel and diesel configuration. The ship has four MTU 20V 1163 TB93 diesel engines, rated at 24.5MW sustained power. The engines drive two shafts with Kamewa controllable pitch propellers. The ship can attain a speed of 28 knots and has a range of over 5,000 miles.
Now these guys have 16 vls cells. But they are from the same base-line F-2000 design; thus the confusion I guess.
NAKHODA RAGAM OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL, BRUNEI
The Nakhoda Ragam class of 1,940t offshore patrol vessels are being built for Brunei by BAE Systems. The first and second of class, Nakhoda Ragam and Bendahara Sakam, were launched in January and June 2001 at the Scotstoun shipyard of BAE Systems Marine. The launch of the third patrol vessel, the Jerambak, took place in June 2002. The Royal Brunei Navy will operate the ships from the Muara naval base.
The governments of UK and Brunei agreed a Memorandum of Understanding in 1994 on defence co-operation. Brunei issued a revised request for tenders (RFT) in 1995 for three offshore patrol vessels. In 1995 it was announced that BAE Systems (then GEC Shipbuilders) had been selected as the prime contractor.
The ship design is a new variant of the F2000 family. A high level of automation in the ship allows operation by a crew of 79. Accommodation is provided for the crew and an additional 24 personnel if required.
COMMAND AND CONTROL
The patrol vessel is equipped with the Nautis II command and weapons control system supplied by Alenia Marconi Systems. The Nautis II has multifunction consoles to support engagements against airborne, surface and submarine threats. Data is downloaded from the ship's sensors and weapons systems to provide a battlezone/operational area situation display as well as navigation, target tracking, threat and weapons allocation and weapons control functions. The command and control system can also operate in training mode to provide realistic simulated scenarios and engagements.
MISSILES
The vessel's anti-ship missile is the MBDA (Aerospatiale) Exocet MM40 Block II missile, with a range of 70km. Range and bearing data are downloaded into the missile's on-board computer. The missile uses inertial guidance for the cruise phase of the trajectory and then active radar homing by active monopulse seeker head. The sea-skimming missile approaches the target at high subsonic speed, 0.9 Mach. The two blocks of four launch tubes are arranged crossed, one block facing starboard and one to the port side, on the missile deck to the stern of the main mast.
The ship's surface to air missile is the MBDA (BAE Systems) Seawolf, which has a range of up to 6km against aircraft or missiles. The missile uses a microwave link command-to-line-of-sight guidance system with television and radar tracking. A solid fuel propulsion rocket provides a speed of Mach 2.5. The 16-cell VLS (Vertical Launch System) is installed in the forward main gun deck between the main gun and the bridge.
GUNS
The main gun, Oto Melara 76mm Super Rapid, installed on the forward gun deck, provides defence against surface and airborne targets. The firing rate is 110 rounds per minute and range is up to 16km. Two MSI Defence DS 30B REMSIG 30mm guns, installed on the port and starboard side on aft upper deck forward of the flight deck, are capable of firing 650 rounds per minute to a range of 10km.
TORPEDOES
The ship is equipped with two triple 324mm torpedo tubes from BAE Systems.
COUNTERMEASURES
The electronic warfare suite includes a Thales Sensors Cutlass 242 electronic support measures system and a Scorpion radar jammer. The Super Barricade decoy launch system from Wallop Defence is installed on both sides of the raised mast deck just aft of the bridge.
AIRCRAFT
The aft flight deck, approximately 285m², has a single landing spot for a medium size helicopter, such as the S-70B Seahawk. The ship does not provide hangar facilities.
SENSORS
The ship is equipped with a Radamec 2500 electro-optic weapons director, which includes an eye-safe laser range-finder, TV and thermal imager and is used for gun fire control and surveillance. The hull-mounted sonar is the medium frequency Thales Underwater Systems TMS 4130C1.
The large rectangular antenna of the E- and F-band air and surface search radar, the Alenia Marconi Systems (AMS) AWS-9 3D for surveillance and target indication, is mounted at the top of the main mast tower. The radar system includes two AMS 1802SW I/J band radar trackers, which provide target illumination for the Seawolf missile system.
ENGINES
The ship is powered by four MAN 20 RK270 diesel engines driving two shafts. The ships achieve a speed of 30 knots. The range at an economical speed of 12 knots is 5,000 miles.
The 2nd picture is the Batch 1. The difference is that the Batch 1 has 2 mast for the radars, whereas Batch 2 has only one mast carrying diff type of radar.
The 2nd picture is the Batch 1. The difference is that the Batch 1 has 2 mast for the radars, whereas Batch 2 has only one mast carrying diff type of radar.
- lol. that`s just an artist impression. The actual design would be similar to the batch 1; only slightly larger. I can put draw 4 planar cells so that it looks like it`s Aegis for all I care.
The Lekiu has 16 cells for the Seawolfs.
the only confuse person is you.
- Have`nt you read the report by naval-technology.com.
"The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge."
- Here. Count the number of vls cells yourself. 16 means 4 rows of 4 cells each. Not 4 rows of 3 cells each.
Here`s the pic again;
.
Remember to count one cell as one cell yeah. Go ahead, take your time. You can count as many times as you want.
Well, that`s just a CGI model of the Lekiu class. lol. Also, that`s prolly the base-line model by BAE. The Nakhoda Ragam is based on the same base-line model but has 16 cells but no hangar. Mine`s the actual one. And why in the world would navaltechnology.com says 12 when it`s 16? Tell you what, read the the article by naval-tech again. What does it say? 12 or 16? Go ahead. Read again. "The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge."
kind of hard to accept har? Proof...
This message has been edited by Justin177 on Jan 11, 2005 2:25 AM
well, the CGI comes from a staff who works in Thales-Hederland.
- but of course if it`s that the base-line model and both the nakhoda ragam and the lekiu are from the same base-line design but there are differences still as evident from both ships. Maybe, there`re not enough funds to buy 16 cells.
- the baseline model of the La fayette has no vls cells. But the Saudi varient has 16 cells.
And better than you, I have been onboard the Lekiu Class....so I know its 16 cells!
- Well, i`m your malaysian admiral.lol. Proof..
This message has been edited by Justin177 on Jan 11, 2005 2:29 AM
why would a staff from Thales Nederland, who cares so much about details fake the drawing of the Lekiu Class....
Even the picture of the model of the Lekiu class also shows 16 cells
- who`s saying it`s a fake. Im saying that`s the baseline F-2000 model. There are many variants from it as evident from the two different designs of the Lekiu and Nakhada Ragam; both of which are technically F-2000 light frigates. Not unless you can provide me with a real picture of the Lekiu with 16 cells or real data and not some artist`s impression or a CGI model of the F-2000 light frigate...This could very well be one of the sources of confusion.
Go read Janes Fighting Ship for the specs and see the prove there lor.
- haha. i did. i have it beside me. Want me to scan it for you now? it does`nt state that she has 16 cells.
You a M'sia admiral, I must than be your father...hahahah
- lol. you catch on fast. my point exactly.
here`s another site, the owner got it from Janes and other sources;
Now that`s what i need. thank you. I stand corrected. I guess the web-sites were wrong. And that second pic was indeed a picture of the original Block 1 frigate. My regrets...If you don`t mind, i`ll use it for the WAFF`s new homepage currently nder development; i`ve been looking for such pics of the Lekiu for a long time. We`ll be the first site(or one of the first site)to claim that she has 16 cells and with a good reason too and correct this error at the same time. And thanks for contributing to this site
The first Super Lynx for Germany was delivered in July 1999 (for service on the Type 122 and Type 123 frigates), for Singapore in December 1999 and for Denmark in November 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------
I found it is arrogance to deny Malaysians who obviously should know better about their homeland..the same case with hanger on NGPV..And FYI, www.hazegray.org/worldnav/asiapac/malaysia.htm is one of the site with correct specs, at least for Lekiu class..
This message has been edited by lipaskudung on Jan 11, 2005 7:39 AM This message has been edited by lipaskudung on Jan 11, 2005 7:37 AM
I am interested to find out where the artist's impression of the batch 2 frigates were obtained from? I see no aft tower for a DA08 air search radar nor are the 30mm guns visible - anything else to be seen? I can't tell if its bigger from that pic.
Radar being proposed is the EADS TRS-3D in line with Meko 100. However, not sure if it is the -16 or -32. This are however only initial proposal but might change in its final form
I wish they'd replace the 30 mm guns with Sigma missile/gun arrangements from MSI - something cheaper to shoot down drones with, perhaps. The Sigma could also replace the Emerlecs on the Kasturi (Surely missiles are better than guns in anti air).
I was REALLLY hoping we'd actually be looking at the Aster or any other longer range AAM instead of retaining the Seawolf - having said that, I'd rather keep the Seawolf than trying out MICA (Which can use the same launcher, I understand). In fact, I'd rather we try out the South African Umkhontho rather than MICA - probably more scalable if plans to develop a radar guided version materialises.
I found it is arrogance to deny Malaysians who obviously should know better about their homeland..the same case with hanger on NGPV..And FYI, www.hazegray.org/worldnav/asiapac/malaysia.htm is one of the site with correct specs, at least for Lekiu class..
- Nah, there are errors there as well. Why not? They can`t make mistakes ? Now that`s arrogance. I guess it`s just stereo-typing which occurs on both sides of the straits; that i would think `low-low' in Malaysia`s case but which is the case anyway. The RMN could have been better.
This message has been edited by Justin177 on Jan 11, 2005 11:53 AM
actually there is no need to get so heat up lah...
how much of a difference would it make between 16 seawolf and 12 seawolf? if i noted correctly in that photo... it may have space for 16 seawolf.. but it appears that only 10 was loaded.. and even if you can load 100 seawolf ... ONLY 2 can be fired simultaneously anyway....
correct. what is the problem between 12 or 16 ASM tubes? Even, Laksamana class only got 4 ASMs.
on second batch of the Lekiu class, Rolls-Royce already submitted proposal to install Trent turbine engine on it. Current 1st batch use ony diesel engines.
Nah, there are errors there as well. Why not? They can`t make mistakes ? Now that`s arrogance. I guess it`s just stereo-typing which occurs on both sides of the straits; that i would think `low-low' in Malaysia`s case but which is the case anyway. The RMN could have been better.
faz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ouch..Faz the Untouchable..and Faz the knowledgeable..he will always know better than anyone.we said 16 and he said 12.we said 16 and again he said 12.we said..(oh ok enough you know what i'm going to say?) and only based on a single site..we've been already onboard, but he said "proof?"no wonder i'll called you arrogance, but you said "you are the one that being arrogance"..now i said again..you really are arrogance!..sigh..peoples make mistake but atleast they ask kindly for proof and not:
"I think many Malaysians mistake it for Brunei`s Nagam Rajah corvettes which do carry 16 sea-wolf missiles."
-dont you think it's funny when you said you know better than us..then i guess i'll have to say i know better than you on formidable based on www.naval-technology.com?
"And why in the world would navaltechnology.com says 12 when it`s 16? Tell you what, read the the article by naval-tech again. What does it say? 12 or 16? Go ahead. Read again. "The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge."
kind of hard to accept har? Proof..."
-another reasons we being here are to correct the incorrect.you are talking about malaysian ship and the malaysians (in fact many of them are here)are here. so ASK us, and USE us dont give your 100% bet on those crap..at least give us credit and not underestimating us.you think?
Ouch..Faz the Untouchable..and Faz the knowledgeable..he will always know better than anyone.we said 16 and he said 12.we said 16 and again he said 12.we said..(oh ok enough you know what i'm going to say?) and only based on a single site..we've been already onboard, but he said "proof?"no wonder i'll called you arrogance, but you said "you are the one that being arrogance"..now i said again..you really are arrogance!..sigh..peoples make mistake but atleast they ask kindly for proof and not:
- Oooohhh. A personal attack. I approved your membership just a few weekds ago.
- You obviously don`t know what you`re talking about. The web-site I quoted from is one of the best around. And anyway, I quoted two.
- There is no justification to believe until I have seen credible proof which is waht i`ve asked.
- Im warning you. Lay off this attack. I posted that because one of your mates asked for it.
- You are arrogant because you construe that people like you cannot make mistakes. Pathetic
"I think many Malaysians mistake it for Brunei`s Nagam Rajah corvettes which do carry 16 sea-wolf missiles."
dont you think it's funny when you said you know better than us..then i guess i'll have to say i know better than you on formidable based on www.naval-technology.com?
- the people at that site and others like it definitely know better than you on most other issues. But they are not infallible.
"And why in the world would navaltechnology.com says 12 when it`s 16? Tell you what, read the the article by naval-tech again. What does it say? 12 or 16? Go ahead. Read again. "The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge."
kind of hard to accept har? Proof..."
-another reasons we being here are to correct the incorrect.you are talking about malaysian ship and the malaysians (in fact many of them are here)are here. so ASK us, and USE us dont give your 100% bet on those crap..at least give us credit and not underestimating us.you think?
- No. Given the fact that it is impossible to ascertain that you are from the military, why should anyone?
- After hearing this `crap' from you. You`ll definetly be the last thing anyone will believe in.
- I posted that because one of your mates asked for it in the light of gaining greater clarity of knowledge. I have posted more articles here about the Malaysian military than anyone else from sources as credible as Janes, Asian Defence Journal, Aviation News, Flight, etc .
- I`ll be watching you very closely now.
Nody, u dont have to entertain a daydreamer. His the only one who's right here. Those who not as same league as him will be looked down upon. My message yg kena batang hidung dia was deleted ikut suka hati dia aja. Let him live in his own dream world. People like him wont go far. He is only a day dreamer.
faz... you dont have to entertain those sex starved desperate housewifes like nody and nano... they probably got trampled by other forumners so often due to their lack of military knowledge, they are probably mentally bordering breakdown.
in any case... pictures can lie and DO LIE from time to time...
thus far... all we see is a picture with 16 circular cover and out of which... probably 10 are really armed.... its hard to even be sure from a picture if the other 6 circular covers are mere dummys or are they unarmed silos that could be armed.
just being on the ship and seeing it on papers is nothing, unless you are working on the ship!
take the formidable for example... its build to accomodate 4 A43 slyver launchers, but only 2 will be loaded with the launchers, obviously the other 2 would be covered up (you dont want rainwater to sink the ship) with dummies, probably awaiting the coming of maybe A50.
but then... from the pictures provided... you would think that the formidable truely carries 4 slyver A43.
so... pictures do lie... and while naval technology may not be entirely correct in everything... it is a good reliable source for information. at least they are more "trustworthy" then nano and nody... whom for all we know, might not even reach puberty yet.
as such... i would say... the juries are still out on whether the RMN ship carry 12 or 16 seawolf. afterall... there is one row of 4 circles that is totally unarmed at all from the pix.
and we all knew about the fiasco over the lekiu construction... so... i wont be surprised that while the plan might call for 16, the eventual setting could be 12 due to "total system reintegration".
Nody, u dont have to entertain a daydreamer. His the only one who's right here. Those who not as same league as him will be looked down upon. My message yg kena batang hidung dia was deleted ikut suka hati dia aja. Let him live in his own dream world. People like him wont go far. He is only a day dreamer.
- Hmm let me see. For someone who comes in only to start fights and wastes threads, well that`s crap indeed.
- Lebih baik daripada membuang masa macam awak. Datang sini bukan membuat sebarang contribusi. Nak cari gaduh sahaja.
nope... what i mean is that pictures can be doctored... i have seen afew in this forum too. and it really depends on where you based your opinion about the LEKIU seawolf numbers...
here is a german translated website... it states too that the LEKIU has TWELVE.. not sixteen. but of course... websites can be wrong... but then again... it shows that FAZ isnt entirely to blame if he is wrong...
and so what if nano and that ding dong are malaysians? there are malaysians who still think they can land their astronauts on the sun... so being malaysians does not equate better knowledge on MAF...
as the saying goes... the ones who knew me best, is not my mother... but my enemy.
The frigates’ anti-ship missile is the MBDA MM40 Exocet Block II. The two four-cell launchers are installed on the ship. The MBDA Seawolf short-range missile provides protection against supersonic aircraft and anti-ship missiles to a range of 6km. **{{{ The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge. }}}** The ship’s main gun is the Bofors 57mm gun that fires 2.4kg shells at a rate of 220 rounds/min. Two MSI 30 mm guns fire 0.36kg rounds to a range of 10km at a firing rate up to 650 rounds/min. On the raised deck at the level of the roof of the helicopter hangar are the Whitehead 324mm B515 triple tube torpedo launchers for lightweight anti-submarine launchers. The ship is equipped with a hangar and a helicopter deck with a single landing spot to accommodate an AgustaWestland Lynx helicopter
Not that it matters. 12 seawolfs versus 16 seawolfs? 10 loaded? I had made a contention on 12 since i`ve based it on a great site and two sites in fact. If you`re gonna argue about this. Well, too bad. I hope it makes you feel a lot better since it`s 16 or 12. That would make it a cruiser.
The frigates’ anti-ship missile is the MBDA MM40 Exocet Block II. The two four-cell launchers are installed on the ship. The MBDA Seawolf short-range missile provides protection against supersonic aircraft and anti-ship missiles to a range of 6km. **{{{ The twelve vertical launchers are installed in front of the bridge. }}}** The ship’s main gun is the Bofors 57mm gun that fires 2.4kg shells at a rate of 220 rounds/min. Two MSI 30 mm guns fire 0.36kg rounds to a range of 10km at a firing rate up to 650 rounds/min. On the raised deck at the level of the roof of the helicopter hangar are the Whitehead 324mm B515 triple tube torpedo launchers for lightweight anti-submarine launchers. The ship is equipped with a hangar and a helicopter deck with a single landing spot to accommodate an AgustaWestland Lynx helicopter
yup... 12 and 16 seawolfs are really nothing in present days... technology has advanced so much... i think its time for seawolf AMM to move over in deference to better systems.
in any case... being only capable of guideing at most 2 missiles at any point of time and an altitude of 10,000 feets really makes it looks like an old stuff.
you probably can sink the lekiu by dropping afew LGBs simultaneously from above 10,000 feet!... like that, can save the more expensive ASM like harpoon for bigger and more valuble fish.
given the above scenario... malaysia should really stop wasting money on building their ships and concentrate on getting air superiority power... what's the point of have nice numerous and big ships... if they are gonna end up at the bottom of the sea on day one due to lack of air superiority?
Note: This is not a personal attack..He doesnt have to be WARNED!
- lol. an infant can see that. I never talked about you per se. And yet you went ranting about me. Read the title of the thread;which you have conveniently missed. I have no problem if you want to debate the subject.
Good Lord, biased mods..
- You are abyssmal. Mods can par-take in any threads but they do so at the expense of thier authority. My warning points to the fact that you were getting personal. And if you do that, well why should`nt I. And that would spoil the thread. Since you are persistent, i`ll track you down for any mistake you make on such related military subjects and i guess, i`ll just have to re-inform you.
Heh,you're saying..? sex-starved, put man on the sun, heh that kind of words?..worthless...
- What are you on about? Can`t take a hit and you want to hit others.
Current Topic - For Wzhtg and Pulm; Malaysia`s Lekiu Batch 2
classes frigates;
